Russia escalates war into western Georgia
posted at 12:40 pm on August 11, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Russia occupied an abandoned Georgian military installation in the west, on undisputed Georgian territory, as it escalated its offensive in the Caucasus. The move attempted to block Georgia from responding militarily in Abkhazia as well as preventing a further mobilization by Georgia of its armed forces:
Russian forces carried out military operations Monday around the west Georgian town of Senaki to prevent Georgian troops from regrouping there, news agencies reported, quoting the Russian defence ministry.
The reports were confirmed by a Georgian official.
Russian forces “are conducting an operation to prevent firing on South Ossetia and on Russian peacekeepers by Georgian artillery and the regrouping of Georgian forces aimed at new aggression towards South Ossetia,” RIA Novosti quoted a Russian defence ministry official as saying, in a report also carried by Interfax.
Earlier, the Russians disclaimed any intent to invade Georgia. This move not only belies their words but also their motives. It comes close to the Black Sea area, strategic for both nations, and threatens to cut Tbilisi off from its navy.
Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili implored the US and Europe to act in its defense:
Ostensibly, this war is about an unresolved separatist conflict. Yet in reality, it is a war about the independence and the future of Georgia. And above all, it is a war over the kind of Europe our children will live in. Let us be frank: This conflict is about the future of freedom in Europe.
No country of the former Soviet Union has made more progress toward consolidating democracy, eradicating corruption and building an independent foreign policy than Georgia. This is precisely what Russia seeks to crush.
This conflict is therefore about our common trans-Atlantic values of liberty and democracy. It is about the right of small nations to live freely and determine their own future. It is about the great power struggles for influence of the 20th century, versus the path of integration and unity defined by the European Union of the 21st. Georgia has made its choice.
Unfortunately, the Russians can make similar claims with Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Unfortunately, the US and EU set this precedent several times over in the Balkans by endorsing and assisting the breakup of Yugoslavia. In those situations, we recognized the independence of ethnic enclaves to secede from their internationally-recognized countries without the general consent of their neighbors. This is especially true in Kosovo, which had been part of Serbia for centuries.
The Russian military attack on Georgia does have parallels to NATO attacks on Serbia in the 1990s, if one accepts the notion that Tbilisi oppressed its ethnic enclaves. Moscow can make those charges and claim just as much moral responsibility to protect Abkhazians and Ossetians from Tbilisi as we did for the breakaway republics in the Balkans, and if necessary they can fake a few atrocities to give it some PR value. We unleashed this diplomatic game, and Georgia gets to pay the price.
That doesn’t mean we can just throw up our hands and leave the Georgians to the tender mercies of Vladimir Putin. Even forgetting the strategic value of Georgia, the nation supported us in Iraq when most nations couldn’t be bothered, and we owe them our support now. The flights delivering their troops back to Georgia send a message to Moscow that we will not stand idly by while it rebuilds its empire in the Caucasus. We need to find other ways to sting Putin, especially economically, for his adventure.
But we shouldn’t pretend to be shocked at Russia’s convenient support of nationalism in the Caucasus after our own convenient support of it in the Balkans.
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The same reason we pay trillions to DC, because of ignorance. Because of the ignorance that consolidation of power yields better results or stability.
LevStrauss on August 11, 2008 at 3:33 PM
The thing that has really got my mind boggled in all this is where were our intelligence agencies? I mentioned that on another thread a day or two ago and others may have also. The CIA? The DIA? Etc.? We have heard for a long time that our intelligence wasn’t very good in the middle east because so many of our agents, translators, spy satellites were still oriented to Russia and they all missed what Russia was getting ready to do?
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 3:35 PM
bullshit. What bases in Turkey? Turkey impedes our forces every chance they get, and has for years.
Those planes in Balad are very busy right now.
You guys have zero clue what you are talking about. You sound like absolute hysteric morons.
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 3:36 PM
And declaring a no fly zone over Iraq was easy. Saddam’s forces were pretty well demoralized after Gulf War 1, and his AA capabilities were very limited (didn’t stop him from shooting at our guys sometimes). And we were flying over Kurdistan where the locals were friendly, for the most part.
We’re supposed to go create “no fly zones” over territory already held by the enemy?
brilliant proposal there.
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 3:38 PM
Calm down now. Deep breaths. If you get any more worked up your feathers may fall out.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 3:39 PM
Bush to address nation at 5:15 edt
Word on the street is that Whiteman AFB in MO (home of B2) has been on alert since early this am – many a/c arriving/departing. It’s dark now in Georgia and the line of Russian tanks is stretched out along hwys in mountainous terrain. also, their only resupply line is through tunnel in their rear (can’t remember its name – sorry). Would Russians even know American stealth bombers over Georgian territory before bombs start falling on armour column?
I’m curious to hear what W has to say.
lonesomecharlie on August 11, 2008 at 3:39 PM
They’re busy on the WOT… they just have way too much on their plate right now…
And besides, our “intelligence” services are only really good in the movies…
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 3:40 PM
Finally! Say ’something’ W – not just that you looked Pootie in the eye and sternly condemned!
dustoffmom on August 11, 2008 at 3:41 PM
You think Russia is going to outright annex the two areas in question? They will be independent states with close ties to Russia. It will be a mockery of our actions in Serbia as it was meant to be.
DFCtomm on August 11, 2008 at 3:42 PM
My guess would be that a “Strong condemnation” is about a thousand times more likely than “bombs start falling on armor column”.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 3:43 PM
Putin is and will continue to be one of the world’s most dangerous men. Were they looking for an excuse to try and re-claim Georgia? These days, Russia(read that Putin) is so sure of itself that the escalation of this into their old ways would not surprise me(pray I’m wrong!). I wonder if Europe will notice then?? Much of poor old Europe has become effete and complacent. I hope this is not their wake up call!!! I worry about this country losing it’s bold and aggressive people because society is currently touting opposites. The left, for example, may not value them—but over history they have proven their worth time and time again.
jeanie on August 11, 2008 at 3:44 PM
I don’t think we can say that they missed anything. Great you have the information, your ally escalates conflict in a very sensitive area, what are you going to do? And what did Georgia think the response would be? And what did the US know and when did they know it with regards to both Georgia’s and Russia’s escalation? Plans and possibilities are drawn up for many situations, I find it really hard that this was such a surprise, unless Georgia acted alone without notification.
LevStrauss on August 11, 2008 at 3:46 PM
Looks like we’ve been outplayed, frankly.
This is just another painful reminder that we need to totally clean house in the CIA and State department.
Nuance.
reaganaut on August 11, 2008 at 3:47 PM
They way it’s looking as of right now we, and even more so for the Georgians, will be lucky if Georgia does not become an “independent” state with close ties to Russia.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 3:47 PM
Well, they will now, dumbass.
Romeo13
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSLB67224120080811
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 3:49 PM
I am mainly thinking of what must have been a pretty fair amount of Russian troop and equipment movements. If our intelligence agencies knew didn’t they warn the Georgians that the Russians were readying a trap for them and if they didn’t know, why not?
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 3:51 PM
dustoffmom, Bush and his administration have been saying A LOT for a couple of days now.
Really, I suggest you research what’s actually going on before you keep calling for some kind of ? escalated response.
We need to let the nations on the ground over there lead the effort for a while. They are actually trustworthy and we need to show them that we respect them as such.
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 3:52 PM
Seeing how your husband is the AF officer, maybe you should ask him.
1. Besides the numerous Turkish Air Bases, we have Incirlik AB and Izmir AS; while both aren’t Langley, they can support AEF operations. Though they aren’t desirable in terms of direct location to Georgia, Incirlik was also home of Operation Northern Watch, so they can sustain no-fly zones.
2. Turkey does like to impede us, but they don’t want a Russian-controlled state on their border. They’ve also allowed the US to use airbases in Turkey to transport goods into/out of Iraq. As for planes in Balad, trust me when I say the largest AF in the world, the US Army, can handle the low ops tempo in OIF.
3. I may still be in the pipeline to get my bars next year, but I’ve done plenty of briefings to my O-3/O-5 upon subjects directly relating to US air capabilities in the Near East. While true, I may not know every specific in terms of logistics or political situation I’m talking about, at least I don’t try to hide behind a husband and declare my morale authority, ok Cindy Sheehan?
TheEJS on August 11, 2008 at 3:52 PM
Hmmm….
“IF” Bush got to countries in Europe, and Turkey, to allow Air corridors into the battle zone, this could get ugly really fast.
There were 3 Carrier Battle Groups in the Gulf region recently, one of which was on its way home to Japan…
“IF” Turkey is willing to play, we could put a 2 carrier group in the Black Sea in a just a couple of days…
With Air Tanker support, Air could fly out of Germany, Iraq, and Turkey….
Really comes down to what Price Turkey demands to cooperate.
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 3:54 PM
Did you hear that we also did Operation Southern Watch, and yes, Virginia, we lost aircraft (such as predators) to Saddam’s “nonexistent” AA capabilities?
TheEJS on August 11, 2008 at 3:55 PM
I suspect that would be the tipping point for Western involvement, and I’m sure Russia knows that. I imagine when the dust settles, Georgia will remain independent, Russia will absorb the others and disengage, content with having belled the Western cat with the whole world watching. I’m still unsure as to the timing on this. Why did they do it right before our elections? They surely prefer a soft pumpkin like Barry as our CiC.
a capella on August 11, 2008 at 3:57 PM
I don’t see how we didn’t know the troop movements. The second part of your reply is what I am fixated on. Who knew what about what and when did they know it for all three parties. All three are playing dumb right now, Georgia, Russia, and the US and we know that this is not the true story.
LevStrauss on August 11, 2008 at 3:58 PM
I don’t know about this situation, but based on past experience, I’d say that those Brigades have been sitting in place for quite some time.
We also just ran, in conjunction with Georgia, a three week training excercise, and the Russians then ran their own… so the buildup and supply would have looked like that excercise… they just left the supplies in place when done.
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 4:01 PM
Do you really think that the KGB is spending their time at Hotair?
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 4:04 PM
From NRO Corner. Apparently Bush did fly home, after all.
Why didn’t the CIA see this coming? Did it see the acquisition of atomic bombs by Pakistan and India? Did it predict the fall of the Berlin Wall? The
GangSpies Who Couldn’t Shoot Straight missed another one?Wethal on August 11, 2008 at 4:05 PM
Plausible, but for all the tens of billions our intelligence agencies get I would think they could have picked up on something being afoot befor the Russian boot came down.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 4:07 PM
dam Comrade… don’t blow my cover!
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 4:08 PM
And don’t forget the “slam dunk”.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 4:10 PM
Yeah, but you gotta remember that this situation is not new… its been going on for years.
And I still think that the fact that they did not IMMEDIATELY blockade the coast of Georgia, but took a couple of days to get their ships prep’d and to sea, shows that this has escalated beyond their origional plans.
I think the plan was in place, but the Russins were suprised when Georgia went into Ossetia… at least by the timing of it..
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 4:11 PM
If we get caught I will say that you were the ring leader and that you had a gun to my head.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 4:12 PM
Are you seriously asking or playing coy?
The Georgian Daily (a link that was posted on the previous thread) has several articles concerning the exercises that were being conducted in Georgia stating their concern over the Russians also conducting exercises on the other side of the border. Going back thru the archives reveals other articles concerning the repair of the railroad and concern that it was being used to prepare for invasion, the issuance of Russian passports to residents in the two provinces. It’s pretty clear the Russian had their troops and equipment ready and we had military advisors there who knew it.
I read that the incident was sparked by incursions into Georgia proper from the SO region and a return response. Unfortunately, I think the Georgians might have gotten snookered into this before we had time to stop them.
Texas Gal on August 11, 2008 at 4:13 PM
Too many if’s, Turkey is out of the picture …for now…
It would be shear lunacy to send a battle group into the Black Sea at this late stage.
They would‘ve had to be in the Aegean Sea ready to make a fast transit before this.
Slow down on the heavy rhetoric and you will maintain some support from some of us who know you.
jerrytbg on August 11, 2008 at 4:14 PM
Really funny part? I have a picture of me drinking beer with a couple of Spetznaz guys… one of whom spoke really good Californiaized English… reported it to the Chain of Command (as I was supposed to) and started a HUGE $hitstorm.
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 4:15 PM
That may be. When they were met with so little resistance and only “diplomatic condemnation” they may just have decided to seize the opportunity presented.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 4:15 PM
Oh, I’m sure they were in the area, some of those brigades fought in Chechnya. Still, it’s not like there are a lot of routes over the mountains, it shouldn’t be hard to detect massive amounts of vehicles moving into a funnel.
Now, Russia is calling for Saakashvili to resign.
So, poisoning to get your sock puppet “elected” didn’t work. The Russians created their own Gleiwitz incident instead.
Of course the AP (Associated Pravda), al-Reuters and the “beeb” are playing along.
Terrible.
reaganaut on August 11, 2008 at 4:15 PM
hehe…………..putin…..time magazines person of the year 2007……
patriot2001 on August 11, 2008 at 4:16 PM
Oh trust me… I don’t think it would be a good idea at all…
But with Bush penchant for doing what he thinks is right, and with him flying home to make a speech tonight… it would be a fairly typical Bush gameplan.
Just trying to think out the possibilities…
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 4:19 PM
Huh. I wonder who might just be helping the Kurdistan Workers’ Party lately? real head scratcher, that.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/08/08/europe/EU-Turkey-Kurds.php
Turkey ain’t gonna play nice with us. They don’t like us, and Russia is a lot closer and a lot scarier for them.
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 4:21 PM
So are you saying that the CIA blew it or not?
As far as the Georgians getting “snookered into this before we had time to stop them”, communications do work pretty fast these days.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 4:22 PM
All we have to do is make a show of force, allow the Georgian military to take heart in it, and they will stand and fight. Nothing can be better for their morale than hearing stories of American TFs moving into the Black Sea, or seeing a F-15 overhead. It’ll not only save their military, but it would indefinitely shore up their political establishment and keep them as our ally.
TheEJS on August 11, 2008 at 4:23 PM
EJS why yes, yes I did know about the no fly zone over southern Iraq. And I did say in my original comment that they did manage to shoot at us even with their degraded capabilities.
But establishing a no fly zone over territory controlled by Russia is a hell of a lot different from flying over territory controlled by a defeated Saddam.
And yes, it’s obvious that Russia pre-positioned personnel and materiel for this operation. Thus they would have pre-positioned AA capabilities.
duh.
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Fair enough…
jerrytbg on August 11, 2008 at 4:24 PM
It’s not libs in this comment section that treat friends and human beings like dirt.
Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Russia will take whatever she wants. The old Soviet Empire.
GW does not know P.
The KGB senses weakness in the Americans and they are right.
We may not be at Yalta, but might as well be.
Starlink on August 11, 2008 at 4:25 PM
MB4, does our CIA ever do anything but blow it? I mean, that was a rhetorical question, right?
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 4:25 PM
For some reason I keep on thinking about one of the funniest Hardball skits on Saturday Night Live.
I am not saying we should start bombing Russian tank columns, but I think we need to remind Putin that our B-2 pilots aren’t doing anything right now.
BohicaTwentyTwo on August 11, 2008 at 4:25 PM
Unless they are bluffing that means they are going for the whole enchilada. Kind of reminiscent of the Sudetenland, then the rest of Czechoslovakia.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 4:26 PM
The sad part here is everyone is watching.
The events of the last few days are not lost on the Taiwanese.
Starlink on August 11, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Turkey hasn’t given us overflight rights…yet…
Stageing maybe, could be why they’re quiet.
Battle Gr. into the Black Sea…Too late.
jerrytbg on August 11, 2008 at 4:29 PM
For the last time moron, Georgia didn’t escalate the conflict, Ossetia did, probably at Russia’s request. Does your brain download propaganda directly from the Kremlin’s supercomputer?
Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 4:31 PM
That’s what I’m trying to flesh out.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 4:31 PM
I don’t know the details but I can imagine that since the exercises ended on July 31 that most of our trainers might have left Georgia with a few advisors left. If there was a contingent of Georgia troops that were fired on they might have suspected an invasion was underway since it seems to me that they had been made very suspicious by Russia’s actions leading up to the exercises.
I doubt that the Georgian president asked our advisors for permission to return fire just as I am very sure our advisors would have cautioned against Georgia starting a war with Russia.
Texas Gal on August 11, 2008 at 4:32 PM
I doubt they were going to launch an attack on the Chinese mainland from Quemoy and Matsu anyway.
starfleet_dude on August 11, 2008 at 4:32 PM
As much as you like to say Saddam’s “degraded” system, say that to air assets who engaged in “pre-positioned AA capabilities” and took serious casualties. Saddam had an ever-increasing modernized air defense network, one that even tried to replicate the Serbian model which brought down a F-117.
The point is not that Saddam shot some aircraft down, the point is we beat his network, which was better than the ad-hoc system the Russians are running right now in Georgia. They may control territory, but they don’t have the infrastructure to support anything outside mobile SAMs or AAA. If the Russians were to engage, they’d find out a mix of what Israel did to the Syrian modern air defense system and a couple Wild Weasles coming down on them.
Simply put: look at the map and ask yourself how much AA assets can Russia bring into Georgia through the Roki tunnel and Black Sea fleet and organize effectively?
duh
TheEJS on August 11, 2008 at 4:33 PM
Probably not entirely lost on the Iranians either.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 4:34 PM
Actualy, Battle Group into the Black Sea is dependent on whether Russia is ready to take on NATO or not…
Bombing Georgia is one thing, attacking a US Battle Group, while transiting Turkish Waters? Especialy if we fly CAP out of Turkish Airbases? Whole other ballgame.
Any unprovoked Attack against a US carrier is a defacto act of war, and brings NATO in…
Remember, we still maintain the Black Sea is International Waters… and during the Cold War ran Ops up there a LOT. Even trained at opposed transits of those straights…
Not saying its smart… but it is possible.
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 4:35 PM
Concern over the escalating military crisis in Georgia led me to Google the last name of an old chum from Tblisi from my time at grad school in Atlanta, to see if I could figure out where in the world he was and if he was OK.
At which I promptly found out for the first time that last November, Sakashvili had named my old chum the country’s Prime Minister!
At this rate, I simply pray he and his wife and 3 kids will all be OK…
Shirotayama on August 11, 2008 at 4:37 PM
See now this, if I was in my early/middle twenties again is, unlike Vietnam, the kind of war I could “enjoy” being in. Fighting the Russians – it would be “glorious”.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Anyone trying to equate Ossetia to Kosovo is a complete and utter drooling moron.
WE
DID
NOT
ANNEX
KOSOVO.
Is anyone still unclear on this?? Russia will annex Ossetia. I have little doubt that Russia probably actively inflamed ethnic tensions in order to create this exact situation. They certainly did create a big portion of this mess when they were still called Soviets with their ‘divide and conquer’ mentality.
On the other hand, Serbia inflamed tensions by being a bunch of genocidal freaktards, not us. I doubt more than 5 people in any US administration ever could even spell Kosovo.
TABoLK on August 11, 2008 at 4:39 PM
More properly phrased should be
The events of the last few days are not lost on the
TaiwaneseChiComs.Sir Napsalot on August 11, 2008 at 4:40 PM
Turkey’s not going to let us move an entire AEF to their territory, unless we can give them rock solid proof that Putin has been supplying and funding the PKK. They won’t want to do it even with that proof.
And we need to let the Poles, Ukranians, and our other “New Europe” allies show Putin and his lap dog that they aren’t going to be bullied. They need for us to let them be the face of the opposition to this thing right now.
And we certainly don’t need to pull a huge chunk of guys out of Balad right now. It’s finally relatively quiet there, and we need to build on success…and we certainly don’t need to leave our own Army and Marine troops with their asses hanging out while we rush off to Georgia.
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 4:41 PM
MM has a report up about the Georgia Internet and computers being under cyber attack as well…
But the report says that traffic is getting highjacked to servers running in Russia, and TURKEY!
If true…. Ruh Roh…
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 4:44 PM
I think that they could take care of themselves OK.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 4:45 PM
Somebody remind me again. I know that there is only one Super Power now. Which country is it again?
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Absolutely correct on every point…
If… there were no other players in the game…enlarge your view… It’s obvious the Russians set the Georgians up…What if they are setting us up…with say ..I don’t know …pick one.
This was a bold move on their part.
Think of the possibilities.
jerrytbg on August 11, 2008 at 4:48 PM
And EJS, you don’t move an entire AEF group overnight. You know that.
Lots of folks here have been screaming that we need to be over this airspace now, or in a few hours. It just doesn’t work like that….
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 4:50 PM
The US would stand unchallenged in the superpower count if the disease of cowardice and inhumanity in the face of tyranny that infested Europe wasn’t busy infesting Anglo North America as well.
Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 4:50 PM
You might want to call the papers and inform them of your breaking development in the story.
LevStrauss on August 11, 2008 at 4:50 PM
I always wondered what William Kristol’s screen name was.
LevStrauss on August 11, 2008 at 4:51 PM
Maybe the Russians are setting us up to get stuck in
LodiIraq. No, never mind, we took care of that ouselves.MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 4:51 PM
And now rumors this may spill into Azerbaijan… That would put them up to the border with Iran… The two could then move to take Iraq…
Just speculation… of course…
Skywise on August 11, 2008 at 4:52 PM
Question is, Is this part of a diabolical Master Plan by an Evil Genius set out for world domination?
Or, is this a situation of opportunity, where they will take what we give them, until we stop giving…
Its not only easy to underestimate your enemy, its also easy to OVERESTIMATE your enemy…
Look into the Soviet Bison Bomber debacle sometime… its a hoot…
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 4:52 PM
Really? Who here thinks we have teleportation technology? I’m sure most of us that want some sort of military aid for Georgia would he happy with Bush just telling us “he’s working on it but it takes time”. I’m also considering the possibility that he’s doing it behind the scenes and keeping it quiet for strategic benefit so I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt. Bush has dissappointed me a lot of times by revealing his spine isn’t as rock solid as I thought it was but shaking knees in the face of tyranny wasn’t one of them.
Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 4:52 PM
No I don’t think so. Bush is CIC and pretty much does what he wants.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 4:57 PM
No, Russia will annex Georgia, then……,……….,………….just fill in the blank(s). Sounds kinda familiar…..where have I seen this before…….oh, and by the way, the Czech’s will think twice about SDI. Turkey will get religion in about another week.
We better elect McCain, break diplomatic relations, drill, drill, drill, and start huge defense buildup. For the Russians, it is all about power and oil. Soviet KGB glory…….nationalism……restore prominence.
GW better listen to Cheney. He has been badly outplayed the fool. Allupundit had a great quote from Machaivelli a while back………should re-post it…….something about how your enemies see you.
Starlink on August 11, 2008 at 4:57 PM
yeah, ruh roh is correct.
uh huh.
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 4:59 PM
Comment of the day!
Starlink on August 11, 2008 at 5:01 PM
Don’t rush me! Don’t rush me!
I’m trying to remember. It’s in my memory banks somewhere.
Let’s see, it’s coming back to me, kind of in bits and pieces.
I remember that it was something BIG that we would NEVER let happen again.
Give me some more time and the rest of it will come back to me.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 5:03 PM
Yes we did. But Iraq is finally starting to go pretty well, and we need to just keep that success going. If Bush had used his political capital post 9/11 to restore a Reagan size military, we would have options now. Tragically he did not.
Putin and his new whatever guy would love nothing more than to have us bail out of Iraq and rush into Georgia half cocked. We shouldn’t do it.
And I don’t think we will. Again, let “New Europe” show Putin what they are made of for a while.
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 5:04 PM
If we are doing anything we’re certainly not going to advertise it. Maybe Rumsfields’rapid deployment force?
This has not played out yet.
Maybe their gassing up all the ufo’s out at area51..lol!!
Sorry…had to say that before mb4…
That’s why they call me the crazy uncle in the attic.
jerrytbg on August 11, 2008 at 5:04 PM
Sorry, I only read American and European news outlets. Maybe you can give me a link to the Daily Lenin while I set up a proxy server so I don’t end up finding radioactive isotopes in my soup.
Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 5:05 PM
Not if Pelosi has anything to say about it.
Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 5:07 PM
HUH? What in the hell is this about??
dustoffmom on August 11, 2008 at 5:08 PM
Actualy, if you take a look at the Russian Black Sea Fleet, its a very hollow shell of what I remeber it to be from the cold war.
Its only got a couple of working Subs, a Cruiser, some ASW destroyers, some Amphibs, and some Missle Patrol boats…
In other words… Targets for an American Battle Group. No real seaborn threat there… but you do have to worry about land based air… which is a pretty sizable threat due to being in restricted waters….
Key is who will blink first.
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 5:08 PM
ROFLMAO!!!
Thanks, I needed that!!
Texas Gal on August 11, 2008 at 5:09 PM
I’m talking about the people that are willing to sell Georgia to the Russians because they’re not worth the trouble or because if we grovel at their feet enough they might help out with Iran.
Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 5:12 PM
Really? I thought we had a Stargate… you’re saying that won’t work?
What’s the world coming to? Are you trying to say Col O’Neill doesn’t exists?
TheEJS on August 11, 2008 at 5:12 PM
He’s a myth invented by the government to keep us complacent while they slowly eat away at our liberties unchallenged.
Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 5:13 PM
Show your sources, Reuters has a pretty good timeline up, or is Lenin run that too.
LevStrauss on August 11, 2008 at 5:14 PM
Perhaps one of theses from Niccolo might be more apropo now.
The wise man does at once what the fool does finally.
War cannot be avoided; it can only be postponed to the other’s advantage.
You must, therefore know that there are two means of fighting: one according to the laws, the other with force; the first way is proper to man, the second to beasts; but because the first, in many cases, is not sufficient, it becomes necessary to have recourse to the second.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 5:15 PM
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 5:08 PM –
Ukraine has stated that ANY Russian naval ship leaving Ukraine ports (and there are quite a few from Odessa over to the east side of the Crimea) to support Russian military operations in Georgia will not be permitted to return to these bases. Ukraine has been a bit peeved at the Russians for pretty much forcing Ukraine to harbor Russian ships, beyond the orginal Ukraine-Russo agreements, ostensibly until the Russians can build new facilities elsewhere on the Black sea. Batumi and Poti come to mind. But, wait, they are Georgian ports. This could get a bit more interesting before it is over.
coldwarrior on August 11, 2008 at 5:16 PM
That took you a whopping 18 min. you getting slow..
jerrytbg on August 11, 2008 at 5:18 PM
Grovel at their feet? Looks like an even swap to me, Georgia for Iran. Who’s more important to you Israel or Georgia?
But anyway, how much do you want to escalate this BS to rescue Georgia? How many dead US soldiers, wasted money, and equipment are worth starting WWIII because Georgia and the Russians wanted to have a pissing contest over a little POS patch of grass? Should be a bigger “cakewalk”.
LevStrauss on August 11, 2008 at 5:18 PM
LevStrauss on August 11, 2008 at 5:18 PM
And on top of that, if this was so important, where has the administration been doing on this for the past month? Looks like they have been taking a knee.
LevStrauss on August 11, 2008 at 5:20 PM
One of my observations from the very beginning, especially Poti…Shipyards included.
jerrytbg on August 11, 2008 at 5:22 PM
“Success” is not always what it is cracked up to be, particularly in a nation of the followers of Mohammad.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 5:22 PM
Crap, just listened to Bush…
He’s playing English Cop…
“Stop, or I’ll yell Stop Again!”
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 5:24 PM
Bush was just on the radio.
Weak. Inadequate. Tepid.
Plus he blew his lines!
He said the Russians may be trying to overthrow “The Government of Russia“!
pseudonominus on August 11, 2008 at 5:25 PM
Just between you and me – everyone else don’t look, OK.
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They have all been moved to area 52. Don’t tell anyone.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 5:26 PM
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 5:24 PM
It was like the worst orgasm anyone will experience in their life. The foreplay was terrible, same pillow talk as always, and just when you think it’ll climax with an “or else”, he just walks away.
TheEJS on August 11, 2008 at 5:26 PM
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