Russia escalates war into western Georgia
posted at 12:40 pm on August 11, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Russia occupied an abandoned Georgian military installation in the west, on undisputed Georgian territory, as it escalated its offensive in the Caucasus. The move attempted to block Georgia from responding militarily in Abkhazia as well as preventing a further mobilization by Georgia of its armed forces:
Russian forces carried out military operations Monday around the west Georgian town of Senaki to prevent Georgian troops from regrouping there, news agencies reported, quoting the Russian defence ministry.
The reports were confirmed by a Georgian official.
Russian forces “are conducting an operation to prevent firing on South Ossetia and on Russian peacekeepers by Georgian artillery and the regrouping of Georgian forces aimed at new aggression towards South Ossetia,” RIA Novosti quoted a Russian defence ministry official as saying, in a report also carried by Interfax.
Earlier, the Russians disclaimed any intent to invade Georgia. This move not only belies their words but also their motives. It comes close to the Black Sea area, strategic for both nations, and threatens to cut Tbilisi off from its navy.
Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili implored the US and Europe to act in its defense:
Ostensibly, this war is about an unresolved separatist conflict. Yet in reality, it is a war about the independence and the future of Georgia. And above all, it is a war over the kind of Europe our children will live in. Let us be frank: This conflict is about the future of freedom in Europe.
No country of the former Soviet Union has made more progress toward consolidating democracy, eradicating corruption and building an independent foreign policy than Georgia. This is precisely what Russia seeks to crush.
This conflict is therefore about our common trans-Atlantic values of liberty and democracy. It is about the right of small nations to live freely and determine their own future. It is about the great power struggles for influence of the 20th century, versus the path of integration and unity defined by the European Union of the 21st. Georgia has made its choice.
Unfortunately, the Russians can make similar claims with Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Unfortunately, the US and EU set this precedent several times over in the Balkans by endorsing and assisting the breakup of Yugoslavia. In those situations, we recognized the independence of ethnic enclaves to secede from their internationally-recognized countries without the general consent of their neighbors. This is especially true in Kosovo, which had been part of Serbia for centuries.
The Russian military attack on Georgia does have parallels to NATO attacks on Serbia in the 1990s, if one accepts the notion that Tbilisi oppressed its ethnic enclaves. Moscow can make those charges and claim just as much moral responsibility to protect Abkhazians and Ossetians from Tbilisi as we did for the breakaway republics in the Balkans, and if necessary they can fake a few atrocities to give it some PR value. We unleashed this diplomatic game, and Georgia gets to pay the price.
That doesn’t mean we can just throw up our hands and leave the Georgians to the tender mercies of Vladimir Putin. Even forgetting the strategic value of Georgia, the nation supported us in Iraq when most nations couldn’t be bothered, and we owe them our support now. The flights delivering their troops back to Georgia send a message to Moscow that we will not stand idly by while it rebuilds its empire in the Caucasus. We need to find other ways to sting Putin, especially economically, for his adventure.
But we shouldn’t pretend to be shocked at Russia’s convenient support of nationalism in the Caucasus after our own convenient support of it in the Balkans.
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thanks ronsfi. . . that’s very nice:)
ThackerAgency on August 11, 2008 at 1:50 PM
You’re joking, right? We shouldn’t help a now-allied country because it was part of an enemy empire at one point in history? I can understand other arguments about not getting militarily involved, but that was just asinine.
amerpundit on August 11, 2008 at 1:51 PM
Madison Conservative is right. We didn’t turn Bosnia, Kosovo, and Iraq into states 58 to 61.
Regardless, if Russia had stopped at the border of South Ossetia, they’d have a propoganda leg to stand on. Now that they have invaded Georgia proper, they have revealed their neo-imperialist fervor.
But remember: Russians love their children, too.
TABoLK on August 11, 2008 at 1:53 PM
I’m reminded of Israel’s incursion and bombing of Lebanon in 2007, which was also a deliberately disproportionate response that had been long planned to an expected provocation. Russia’s attack however looks to be far more successful in comparison. What Russia will definitely get is both South Ossetia and Abkazia as satellite states and a Georgian government that will know its place in the future.
I don’t think Russia is interested in occupying Georgia, only ensuring that Georgia remains firmly within its sphere of influnced, not NATOs. The only thing Putin may not be counting on is that Georgia may decide to keep on fighting rather than give in to Russia’s demands. If Putin refrains from overreaching and instead withdraws from Georgia proper though, this isn’t likely.
starfleet_dude on August 11, 2008 at 1:53 PM
Perhaps if you had bothered to explain your point, or even rationaly make it, instead of resorting to calling me an idiot?
I sure didn’t see you making any GeoPolitical statements, you were too busy questioning my Service the the US.
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 1:53 PM
Oh for heaven’s sake, are you deliberately trying to mislead. Of course Georgia is not, yet, a member of NATO. Not for want of trying btw. I was referring to your remark that we need not stand up for our allies. And I believe, myself of course, that you are sadly wrong about Isreal not being able to ‘depend’ on us. Yes, we are bending over backwards and oftentimes taking a stand against them in the search for an answer. But not being able to depend on us? We can ‘chat’ again after they are attacked and we have responded, quickly and massively.
dustoffmom on August 11, 2008 at 1:53 PM
you’ve watched way too many movies. Establish air superiority over RUSSIA? what a steamig pile of BS and foolishness.
Thank you Romeo13. That was my point yesterday. It’s total foolish fantasy to think that we can just send a couple squadrons over and fix the problem.
Let Poland, Ukraine, the Baltic states, the Czechs, the Finns, and their other allies (like the USA) come up with an actual sensible plan of action. Our allies know we are on their side. Cheney’s statement, Zalmay Khalilzad’s statements, Negroponte’s statements, and McCain’s statements have all been very, very strong.
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 1:54 PM
Speaking of which, Russia is now in control of most of Georgia and Putin says Georgia’s duly-elected leaders must go.
amerpundit on August 11, 2008 at 1:55 PM
Oops, I meant to write 2006, not 7.
starfleet_dude on August 11, 2008 at 1:55 PM
Adding this to all the dangers in the world, we would be totally insane to elect a ‘community organizer’ as president. Will the public wake up to this?
blue13326 on August 11, 2008 at 1:56 PM
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 1:53 PM
I didn’t question your service. I do apologize for calling you and idiot. I get my back way, way up when all these do-gooders come up with the idea du jour for “EASY” missions for the USAF, that will just end up getting my husband and lots of our friends maimed or killed.
And this whole thing had the added bonus of getting us into a hot war with Russia, while we are still fighting in large part with Bill Clinton’s military.
It’s simply not possible at this time to mount some kind of quixotic war with Russia.
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 1:58 PM
My point about this is not that THEY consider themselves a part of Russia, but if I was Russian, I might still consider Georgia a part of Russia anyway. I’m sure there are lots of Georgian independence fighters, but I’m also sure that there are some Georgians that would like to be a part of Russia. America doesn’t want them to be a part of Russia. . . but I read somewhere that Georgia has been ruled by Moscow for over 200 years. Imagine a situation in America like that. We are only just over 200 years old.
ThackerAgency on August 11, 2008 at 1:58 PM
Russia doesn’t have to start a nuclear war, they just have to be sure that we won’t, and even I’m sure we won’t be slinging nukes. Iraq has proved we have some staying power, but it’s been a costly badge of honor, and now we are tied down. The press, until recently, kept singing the “Army is on the point of breaking” song, so it didn’t take a military genius to realize we couldn’t respond in a meaningful way. Our recent support of Kosovo’s independence was the final piece of the puzzle that gave Russia the moral cover needed to pull this off, but don’t fret fortunes change. It wasn’t long ago that Russia was a washed up former communist country, and our fortunes could change as quickly.
DFCtomm on August 11, 2008 at 1:59 PM
If it takes a resignation by a head of state to get the Russian military forces to withdraw from Georgia proper, it may well be a price worth paying.
starfleet_dude on August 11, 2008 at 2:00 PM
I’ve got it. Let’s find the local muslims, channel billions of dollars of weapons and training into them, and get them to put a jihad on the Russians.
It worked so well in Afghanistan after all.
Ares on August 11, 2008 at 2:00 PM
Georgians had traditionally turned to their Russian brothers for help against the Ottomans and Persians.
JiangxiDad on August 11, 2008 at 2:02 PM
That point being made, do you think Georgia attacked Ossetia without our permission? I find it hard that they did but I could be wrong. If I am wrong then they should burn, you don’t upset the global order like this without consulting your Pater Familius.
LevStrauss on August 11, 2008 at 2:03 PM
Entire key to the Russian resurgance?
OIL!!! They are gaining huge amounts of hard currency by selling to Europe… and if they control the pipeline through Georgia as well? They then gain an economic weapon against Europe… they can just turn off the tap.
Key to our resurgance???? OIL!!!! Drill everywhere and become a net energy EXPOTER! Let other countries fund our change to better cleaner technology…
Energy is the lifeblood of nations… as we have found out when 7th Century outlook thugs are world powers due to their tribes sitting on pools of black stuff.
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 2:04 PM
Sure, makes perfect sense to me. Don’t like your neighbors democratically elected leadership? Hell, just invade and demand they resign. Easy enough solution to a problem.
dustoffmom on August 11, 2008 at 2:04 PM
Charging in like a bull in a china shop right when Finland, the Ukraine, Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, etc are getting their response up and running would be irresponsible and counterproductive.
Cheney, Khalilzad, Negroponte, and McCain are doing very well.
Bush himself is doing very well. His confrontation of Putin was quite firm.
Our allies know we are on their side. Now they know that Obama and the dem party still see the UN as a savior, which means that the dem party is not on their side.
If Turkey really wants in to the EU, perhaps it’s time for our “Old Europe” allies to apply some pressure there. If “Old Europe” gives a damn, or isn’t on Russia’s side.
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 2:05 PM
Before or after 1776 ?
elgeneralisimo on August 11, 2008 at 2:06 PM
I predict Russia will call halt to their offensive when the US transport carrying the Georgian troops back to Georgia touches down.
I wonder who and what else in on that plane.
Texas Gal on August 11, 2008 at 2:06 PM
LOL…. first step in creating a Puppet state… just like during the Cold War.
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 2:06 PM
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 2:04 PM
agree 100% on that one.
ThackerAgency on August 11, 2008 at 2:06 PM
Ok, Thacker, I’m going to see if you’re a troll or not. You’ve buried your head in the sand saying Georgia is not in NATO and that America gains nothing. Did you not see my response about the importance of the strategic interests in this region, and how we need Georgia to be in a position to influence Iran, etc?
Care to respond to any of that, or are you going to bleat about isolationism like some mind-numbed sheep?
Sydney Carton on August 11, 2008 at 2:06 PM
But do they really? That’s the problem and I don’t think we are sending comforting messages right now.
dustoffmom on August 11, 2008 at 2:07 PM
I will not have a “conversation” with an antisemitic Truther.
Frack you. Go back to fasterbating to Alex Jones’ rants and Lew Rockwell’s ramblings, retard.
Aristotle on August 11, 2008 at 2:07 PM
Or you can arm Fatah and…awww…nevermind.
LevStrauss on August 11, 2008 at 2:08 PM
Putin is the best of the best ex, if you can really say ex, KGB. Bush could probably have water boarded him and he would have spit the water back in Bush’s face.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 2:09 PM
Both.
JiangxiDad on August 11, 2008 at 2:09 PM
Tell me sir, do you have these responses saved in a word file and just cut and paste at random?
LevStrauss on August 11, 2008 at 2:09 PM
For those of you who can’t understand why we aren’t sailing/flying/driving valiantly to Georgia’s aid right this minute, I give you Rudy Giuliani:
The first World Trade Center bombing or attack was not on September 11, 2001. The first World Trade Center bombing was in 1993. Then there was Tovar Towers in 1996. The bombing of our Embassies and Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, and the attack on the USS Cole in 2000 that killed 17 of our sailors. Bin Laden even declared war on us in 1996. We didn’t hear it. And all through this time of acts of war against America—of coming here and killing Americans, of killing Americans overseas, all through this time—we ignored the wise advice of Ronald Reagan who reminded us that the surest way to achieve peace is by maintaining strength. And what did we do? We cut, and we cut, and we cut, and we cut some more.
An Army of 18 divisions were slashed to 10 as the terrorists were declaring war on us and attacking us. Total manpower was reduced from 775,000 in the early 1980s to 470,000 on the eve of September 11. Refueling tankers—so crucial to long-range operations that are vital to dealing with the terrorists who make war on us—these are now modified 707s, a plane that last flew commercially in the United States in 1983 before most of you were born, and I think probably any of you were born. And Marine Corps pilots today still fly many of the same planes, or helicopters rather, that their fathers were flying in Vietnam. The idea of a peace dividend was always intellectually flawed. It was also strategically flawed. In fact, the pace of our armed forces operations have only quickened since the Cold War. You’re asked to do much more in many different places and in much more complex situations. If we’re going to ask our military to do more, we need to give them the resources and the support to get the job done—that’s our responsibility.
At one time, there was a romantic thought that America could be isolated. Isolation is no longer an option in the age of globalization. Isolation is no longer an option when there are people in various parts of the world planning to harm you. Conditions for our fighting men and women have improved in recent years. President Bush has increased our military strength and further increases are planned. But we need to do more, much more. We need a force that can both deter aggression and meet many challenges that might come our way. America must increase the size of our armed forces. In particular we have to start with the Army which has been cut the most and is under the greatest stress. I believe America needs at least 10 new combat brigades above the additions that are already proposed by President Bush and are already in the budget. This commitment would offer reinforcements where they’re needed most—deter others from calculation that America may be stretched too thin. It would be a terrible mistake for anyone to calculate that, but let’s make sure they don’t by increasing the size of our force and allow the United States greater flexibility to win the wider war of the terrorists against us.
http://externalaffairs.citadel.edu/giuliani_commencementaddress07
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 2:09 PM
Sorry, but Turkey entering the EU is a realllllyyyy bad idea. The only thing keeping Turkey secular is the ability to outlaw political parties… which they have done again just recently. Under EU “Constitution” you can’t do that… so… Turkey becomes part of the EU and the goes to Islamic Sharia Law….
Really bad idea.
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 2:10 PM
Hmmmmmm…..admit that had not crossed my mind. Good catch Texas Gal….we can only hope.
dustoffmom on August 11, 2008 at 2:10 PM
It’d sure be a shame if the Georgian troops came off of the planes with heavier equipment than they previously had control of.
amerpundit on August 11, 2008 at 2:12 PM
.
OK, this is just stupid. Ossetia is part of Georgia. If New Mexico decided to become part of Mexico, we sent troops to stop it, and Mexico invaded California and Texas, would you be on the side of Mexico?
Think_b4_speaking on August 11, 2008 at 2:12 PM
Once upon a time I would have said that no they would have sought our approval first, but lately a lot of people have been doing things on their own. The road we took to get here really doesn’t matter, since we’re here. Now we have to finally decide, in a thoughtful manner, where we want to go.
DFCtomm on August 11, 2008 at 2:13 PM
Put yourself in the President of Georgia’s position. With Russian tanks and infantry encroaching ever further into Georgia and air strikes taking place that your own armed forces can do nothing about, at what point do you decide that bringing the conflict to an end by resigning is best so that more of your own people aren’t killed? Or is it better to try and call Putin’s bluff and not give in?
starfleet_dude on August 11, 2008 at 2:15 PM
Like Serbia did? We created this situation. We carved up a Russian ally, and now Russia is carving up our ally, based on the same justification. Pray they don’t realize how weak our current position is, but I suspect they know all too well.
DFCtomm on August 11, 2008 at 2:17 PM
I can not even begin to imagine his position and certainly never want to. But you are proposing a most dangerous slippery slope here and if one government folds then the precident (sp?) is set and where does that stop??
dustoffmom on August 11, 2008 at 2:18 PM
Or to paraphrase…
Will you surrender to the tyranny of a bully?
Or will you fight for (Braveheart yell) FRRRREEEEEDDDDDOOOMMMMMMMMM!
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 2:18 PM
No your response is plain stupid, Georgia has not had Ossetia since 1991. They are our “ally”, meaning that they are our client state. They don’t get guns or butter if they p!ss us off. They are in a very sensitive area and if they do stuff like this without letting us know what is going on or getting approval then they aren’t much of an “ally”. Even Israel, who is much more of a respected ally then Georgia, has to get an OK from us on many things, so why would we give Georgia free reign?
LevStrauss on August 11, 2008 at 2:18 PM
I think Russia thinks Georgia should still be a part of Russia. I don’t think a military victory would change that. As far as us influencing Iran through Georgia, all I have to do is LOL at that. We won’t ever do anything to influence Iran. Our only hope is Israel attacking them. . . but we’ll condemn Israel for that attack.
We need to develop our own oil resources like Romeo said. Increase production and slash demand and this won’t happen around the world. It’s just not our fight is all.
ThackerAgency on August 11, 2008 at 2:18 PM
I think Winston Churchill’s response is appropriate:
We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender…
Sydney Carton on August 11, 2008 at 2:19 PM
How convenient. Lesson to future ‘warmongering’ President: All you need is to protect ‘ethnic Americans’.
Sir Napsalot on August 11, 2008 at 2:20 PM
:speechless:
reaganaut on August 11, 2008 at 2:21 PM
Can someone explain how the Russia/Georgia conflict started? I’m skimming the news section at Google, and the best I could find was a mention of Georgia “marching on” some Russian city, to which Russia responded all out of proportion with bombs and tanks and occupation and such. Was the Georgia “march” a small infantry invasion, or a political protest? Who really started this? And did the Russian cyberattacks on Georgian government web sites come before or after the armed conflict began?
aero on August 11, 2008 at 2:21 PM
Don’t the Russians know that it’s impossible to move anything like that many troops and their equipment in anything like that short a time table or time frame or time horizon? I guess somebody forgot to tell them.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 2:22 PM
LOL… so we’re finaly gonna help the Indians?
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 2:22 PM
.
I’m not saying recognizing Kosovo wasn’t a mistake. I’m pointing out that Georgia was trying to stop a domestic issue when Russian jumped in – Georgia did not invade a neighbor, they were trying to reimpose order on one of their states. Further, we did not create the situation in the Serbia/Kosovo issue, we merely recognized a breakaway region, foolish as it may have been.
Think_b4_speaking on August 11, 2008 at 2:22 PM
First, it would be good if Russia didn’t control Georgia’s oil pipeline in the short or the long term.
Second, you have a small-minded approach to “influence.” We need Georgia’s access to pro-Western Caucus region oil so that we can do whatever we want with Iran (while developing our oil at home, naturally). Georgia is also next to Iran and would make a nice base of action if we ever wanted to beat them around. Finally, it’s a simple matter of denying a resource to our enemies.
Do you think that if we fail to stop Russia, that will embolden our real enemies? What do you think China will think, with regards to Taiwan or other areas in the Pacific? What about Iran, seeing that America won’t stop to defend an ally? What about the Ukraine? Do you think that our inaction here has no consequences?
Sydney Carton on August 11, 2008 at 2:23 PM
.
You are plain wrong. Go look it up.
Think_b4_speaking on August 11, 2008 at 2:24 PM
Stop projecting, retard.
I’m not the one injecting NWO/False Flag/Israel/Neocons into any and every world event.
Get lost. There are plenty of Paultard infested places in cyberspace, why can’t we san people have our refuge?
Aristotle on August 11, 2008 at 2:25 PM
It is getting really sad over there. The US spoke up when there was trouble in Yugoslavia, but nowhere to be seen to help Georgia. I know not everyone is religious out there, but we really need to keep the Georgians in our thoughts and prayers
ConservativePartyNow on August 11, 2008 at 2:26 PM
Come on keep them coming, I want to see how many you have saved in your word file.
LevStrauss on August 11, 2008 at 2:27 PM
but what consequences are you hoping for in a raging military victory by our guys?
We already own Iraq. . . that’s enough desert for as many bases you might want to attack Iran (I know they said they wouldn’t allow us, but who cares – who’s going to stop us)?
us getting involved in this war will create more problems than it solves.
ThackerAgency on August 11, 2008 at 2:27 PM
Have you read all of McCain’s statements? Have you read Negroponte’s statments? Have you read Cheney’s statement?
Bush’s statements?
A quickie military response isn’t possible. It’s only the stuff of movies and science fiction.
Unless you are talking about reaching out and touching Moscow with a nuke. That we can do right now.
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 2:27 PM
How many transports does it require to bring back 2000 troops? I’m thinking that the reason it took 24 hrs to made the arrangements was that we needed ‘coordination’. Putin is crying about it now. He best be sure none of his ‘peacekeepers’ shoot at our planes.
Texas Gal on August 11, 2008 at 2:28 PM
As I recall, in the end it was Robert the Bruce who lived to fight another day against the English and later become King of Scotland. He was notorious for switching sides and not fighting if he could help it, which given England’s greater power was a better strategy.
If I was the President of Georgia, given the example of what happened in Chechnya my main goal would be to do whatever it took to keep the Russians out of my country.
starfleet_dude on August 11, 2008 at 2:29 PM
You can move Battalion sized units in a week over a coherent Road/Rail system, with existing safe lines of supply… which is why they had to secure the breakaway portion of North West Georgia…
I’m acutaly suprised that more troops did not enter initialy, as their own doctrine calls for 2:1 before any attack is really pressed.
I think that the Two Brigades were on standby to reinforce Ossetia, did so, and then were more successful than they thought they would be. So instead of stopping with defending Ossetia, since you have the enemy on the run, go for the throat… Blackade to stop any reinforcments coming in by sea… talk to Turkey to keep them out of the fight… and call up other units to reinforce… which would take about a week…
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 2:29 PM
That’s just totally false.
It took over a year to get a military thing going for Bosnia. It took a long time to get the military active in Kosovo.
These things just don’t magically materialize overnight.
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 2:29 PM
Independence was declared in 1991, though the international community has never recognized it.
LevStrauss on August 11, 2008 at 2:30 PM
Good points all, but how do you propose to stop them? I don’t think we have the conventional military resources to do it, and I don’t think they will bow to economic pressure, since they are flush with oil money, so how do we pull it off?
DFCtomm on August 11, 2008 at 2:32 PM
.
Good to see you are willing to admit you were wrong.
Think_b4_speaking on August 11, 2008 at 2:32 PM
Would you care to list those problems? I don’t like arguing with a figment of your imagination. Let’s get specific here.
And as for what I’d like: I’d like to see the Russians out of Georgia proper, for starters, with Georgia proper’s independence and sovereignty guaranteed. Then we can talk about independence on the disputed territories, and bog things down in committee for about 5-10 years, while Russian tanks rust in the rain.
I don’t want to attack Russia, but there is absolutely no way that America should allow a democratic ally to be absorbed by a totalitarian state on imperialistic designs. That is just flat-out unacceptable, period.
Sydney Carton on August 11, 2008 at 2:34 PM
No, Georgia doesn’t have control over the region, frankly it doesn’t matter what the international community thinks. I’ll show you a war zone, you’ll show me a piece of paper.
LevStrauss on August 11, 2008 at 2:34 PM
Russians aren’t their “brothers” and russia’s soul died with the rise of Communism. It’s now a completely different entity.
Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 2:36 PM
lol, now we know why your arguments make no sense.
pseudonominus on August 11, 2008 at 2:36 PM
I’m not so sure Russia won’t bow to economic pressure. Where do they keep their money? Is it invested anywhere? Do they have any sovereign wealth funds? Do they engage on transfers on the international market? There’s many ways we can squeeze them.
But let’s say that doesn’t work. What then? Well, I’d move one of our fleets into a position in the waters outside of Georgia as a power-exercise move. Maybe a couple of flybys over the area with our bombers, as a “recon run.” American troops can come in as peacekeepers. We don’t have to fire a shot. If the Russians are stupid enough to attack us, then all bets are off.
Sydney Carton on August 11, 2008 at 2:37 PM
Oh, I’m as cynical about “old Europe” as Donald Rumsfeld. They could pressure Turkey into helping with the anti-Putin effort with the carrot of EU membership. But they will never admit Turkey to the EU. The people are…gasp…so brown and ethnic and all.
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 2:37 PM
I just have to go on record as saying that America not helping it’s ally in Iraq, Georgia, defend itself for its very existence is an absolute disgrace.
I have never in my life witnessed America do anything that made me ashamed to be American until now.
Nessuno on August 11, 2008 at 2:40 PM
Agreed. Contrast the images with Bush enjoying himself at the olympics with the dead people of our Georgian ally, and it’s really, really shameful. How can the President laugh it up as our ally is dying at the hands of Russian tyrants?
Sydney Carton on August 11, 2008 at 2:42 PM
I’m not so sure Russia won’t bow to economic pressure.
Diplomatic stuff’s already started. You don’t send bombers on recon runs.
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 2:47 PM
We don’t know if America is helping or not. Even if America offers military aid it’ll take a while before it’s there and properly set up, and if it happens I’d rather it not be broadcast to the rest of the world so the Russians don’t have the time to prepare (although I’m sure the Times would love to leak the information if they had it). The real disgrace is the minority of Machiavelian idiots on hotair who would sell a loyal ally at the drop of a hat.
Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 2:47 PM
The dollar is weak, and if we move against a SWF, then we could start a rush to dump dollars that could damage us much more than we damage Russia. I’m not at all sure about moving a fleet into the black sea. I was in the army, so don’t have much navy experience, but it looks like a very tight fit, and I would worry about hemming in our navy.
DFCtomm on August 11, 2008 at 2:47 PM
+1. With wiggle room to back out IF we start showing some backbone ASAP.
wccawa on August 11, 2008 at 2:48 PM
Please go take a look at a map… The waters your talking about are the Black Sea. Restricted waters. Its not open ocean there…. and you have to go through the Bosphorus Straights to get there.
Can we put a Carrier in there? Yep, we’ve done it before… and I’ll bet we already have Subs on scene…
But I bet they already have assets watching the Straights… it would be brinksmanship of the highest level… so if you send a carrier, better send about 20 Aegis cruisers with it, cause its going to be a heck of a missle magnet.
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 2:50 PM
Read any history? Lets see… in my lifetime we betrayed North Viet Nam, and set them up to be defeated by promising both peace and airpower, then abandoning them…
And we abandoned the Iraqis who rebelled against Saddam during Desert Storm… actualy let part of the Republican Guard live, get reconstituted, so they could go massacre those rebels…
And we abandoned Lebanon in 84, and left it to anarchy and Syria for 35 years….
Shall I continue? I do have more…
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 2:54 PM
Why do I feel like this is 1938, and this is Czechoslovakia, when I read that headline?
dmh0667 on August 11, 2008 at 2:54 PM
Using my advanced alien technology I have just “hacked” into his word file. I did not allocate nearly enough disc space for the whole thing however so I only got a small snippet of it I am afraid.
1) LYING JERK
2) YOU ILLITERATE JACKASS
3) YOU ARE SO DISHONEST IT IS APPALLING
4) Ignorant
5) Dummy
6) Clown
7) You’re not too bright.
8) Deep Thoughts, by Dick Stupid.
9) Your silly way
10) Oh, you’re a silly lying liberal arguing against strawmen.
11) You are delusional.
12) You’re not the brightest star in the universe.
13) SHUT UP ABOUT IT YOU FRAUD
14) THIS IS MOST MOST HAPPY BUNCH OF CRAP YOU’VE EVER TYPED. Ever.
15) YOU LIAR.
16) YOU ARE A DISHONEST AND VERY DISHONORABLE LIAR.
17) A TOTAL FRAUD
18) Hilarious.
19) SINCE YOU CONTINUE TO LIE
20) BWWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 2:55 PM
Looks like the Georgian Foreign Ministry is using Blogspot to get the news out.
Fascinating.
wccawa on August 11, 2008 at 2:55 PM
The dollar will be even weaker if Russia gets that oil. The price of oil will skyrocket, and the dollar will fall. Of course there’s a risk to our Navy, if Russia shoots first. If they do, then of course America will win.
I’m fine with sending 20 Aegis cruisers. Russia doesn’t get Georgia, period.
Sydney Carton on August 11, 2008 at 2:56 PM
Or as Kipling put it, “Once you start paying the Danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane.
Wethal on August 11, 2008 at 3:00 PM
Um, Georgia does not have oil… what they have is a pipeline running through it…
Its the only pipeline that currently bypasses both Russian, and Iranian, control.
Not a huge windfall in dollars for Russia by doing this, but it does give them more POWER to not only affect prices, but to use oil as a weapon against Europe… just turn off the spigots…
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 3:05 PM
When the president in exile of Georgia bitterly calls the US a “fairweather ally,” it will be justifiably deserved.
Letter to US ambassador by Cambodian diplomat Sirik Matak on why he would not take an offer of evacuation, and instead chose to die in his country:
The Khmer Rouge shot Matak in the stomach. He died three days later.
Wethal on August 11, 2008 at 3:05 PM
Georgian Forces Hold Defensive Positions in South of Conflict Zone
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 3:06 PM
It is too late to save Georgia without the threat of mushroom clouds. But we can retaliate. NATO membership to the Ukraine, anyone? Once they are in NATO, Russian can’t touch them. That is why Georgia wanted in, they knew this day was coming.
tommylotto on August 11, 2008 at 3:06 PM
Any pictures of Marine helicopters lifting off the roof of the US embassy in Tbilisi yet, with people clinging to the outside?
Wethal on August 11, 2008 at 3:09 PM
Georgia, Ukraine, etc., etc., etc. really aren’t very important as we still have the biggest prize of all, Iraq. That’s about a thousand times more important, isn’t it?
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 3:10 PM
Are you certain that Putin got that memo?
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 3:13 PM
Actually, what could save Georgia now is a refusal to give in to Russia’s demands and force Putin to stick his neck out by keeping forces in Georgia proper. Of course Putin could simply decline and withdraw his forces back to Abkazia and South Ossetia, and quietly drop the demand to oust the current government. Which may be what he’s planning on doing anyway, after inflicting casualties and damage on Georgia’s military.
starfleet_dude on August 11, 2008 at 3:13 PM
Call me Pollyanna (and I am certain there are many of you out there who will!) but overstretched, undermanned, ill-supplied…however you want to put it….take away these asinine ROE’s and give them a fighting chance and the US GI’s will prevail. Have lived with, among and beside them all my adult life. I’ll put our soldiers, especialy our ‘professional’ soldiers up against anything anyone can throw at us. Our State Dept and politicians love to tie their hands to our detriment and shame. Allow them to do their job, they will prevail.
dustoffmom on August 11, 2008 at 3:13 PM
One can only hope we learned that lesson well, and never again. BUT…give the libs control and all bets are off.
dustoffmom on August 11, 2008 at 3:15 PM
Even if we couldn’t deploy forward elements of the XVIII Airborne Corps for 12-24 hours to be “peacekeepers”, we could certainly send the 332nd AEF from Balad, Iraq, to forward operating bases in Turkey and declare a no-fly zone over Georgia.
TheEJS on August 11, 2008 at 3:15 PM
I haven’t heard it much lately but for a long time I kept hearing that there was only one Super Power in the world anymore. Maybe there is only one now.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 3:16 PM
So let me get this straight. There has not been a peep out of the UN yet about the russians killing civilians indiscriminately in georgia but anytime there is a push to build a security fence along our own border with mexico the un sec general starts making comments about human rights offenses. Sooo, tell me again why we are paying billions of dollars a year so a bunch of beauracrats can live it up in nyc with immunity from our laws?
peacenprosperity on August 11, 2008 at 3:19 PM
Judging by what the United States “response” has been thus far, I think that horse may have already done left the barn.
MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 3:21 PM
And again, I point out for those who have not yet drunk the Anti-American Pro-Soviet-Union flavor-aid, that the United States did not seize Serbia and pronounce it US territory. They unhooked the rule of Russia, stopped the slaughter of Kosovars, and made the area democratic upon its own people.
Russia’s intention is to reclaim land and people as its own. It’s flat-out imperialism. If you can’t see the difference, then you’re as blind as the average person who actually enjoyed the movie “Rendition”.
MadisonConservative on August 11, 2008 at 3:25 PM
Just went and looked, and couldn’t find anything…
What the heck is Turkey doing? This is a war on their border.. and they invested in that pipeline as I remember…
I can’t imagine they want a militant Russia sitting on their border…
But I can’t find even a condemnation from them… where they bought off somehow?
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 3:27 PM
Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 3:27 PM
“Fighting” a fire in the pipeline near Ankara. Convenient timing, eh?
funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 3:33 PM
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