Obama calls for Security Council resolution on Georgia — even though, er, Russia has veto power; Update: Or does it?
posted at 9:20 pm on August 11, 2008 by Allahpundit
“Astoundingly bone-headed,” says CJ. Is it? A man with 300 foreign policy advisors can’t be wrong!
The United States, Europe and all other concerned countries must stand united in condemning this aggression, and seeking a peaceful resolution to this crisis. We should continue to push for a United Nations Security Council Resolution calling for an immediate end to the violence. This is a clear violation of the sovereignty and internationally recognized borders of Georgia – the UN must stand up for the sovereignty of its members, and peace in the world.
I’d love to hammer him here for this Mother of All Gaffes — except for one thing. Over to you, Maverick:
The United States and our allies should continue efforts to bring a resolution before the UN Security Council condemning Russian aggression, noting the withdrawal of Georgian troops from South Ossetia, and calling for an immediate ceasefire and the withdrawal of Russian troops from Georgian territory. We should move ahead with the resolution despite Russian veto threats, and submit Russia to the court of world public opinion.
Yeah, granted, Obama’s statement didn’t explicitly acknowledge the folly of trying to pass a resolution, but note the wording. All he wants is for the U.S. to continue to “push” for a resolution, which is ultimately all McCain wants too. It’s a symbolic/rhetorical gesture, as virtually all UN activity is and must be. Right? Or am I missing some nuance?
Update: Turns out this subject came up earlier at the Corner. Under Article 27 of the UN Charter, Security Council members are required to abstain from votes under Chapter VI, “Pacific Settlements of Disputes,” but not under Chapter VII, “Action with Respect to … Breaches of the Peace,” i.e., the chapter dealing with military force and other sanctions. Presumably any purely hortatory or condemnatory resolution would fall under Chapter VI and could therefore pass without Russian approval; only if the UN then tries to take action against Russia somehow would the Russian veto re-materialize. How perfectly impotent and UN-ish.
Blowback
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(suppresses a snicker) Mmph mmph hhmmph
Weebork on August 11, 2008 at 9:23 PM
If the rest of the Security Council vote for the resolution, it’s bad for Russian propaganda.
ForNow on August 11, 2008 at 9:23 PM
Oh dear. Did you bother to read The Corner?
corona on August 11, 2008 at 9:23 PM
We have a MORAL DUTY to support Georgia not just a strategic interest. To suggest that we leave the Georgians to face the bear alone is sniveling and dishonorable. WE ARE NOT A NATION OF COWARDS DON”T ACT LIKE IT!
Stop the hand-wringing; this is the price we pay for the country we live in. When you put gas into your car or heat your home this winter remember it is because of the regulatory and environmental policies and punitive litigation that we have due mainly to leftists that the energy markets are the way they are.
This situation can be managed in our favor; there are economic, diplomatic, and military levers we can use to resolve this crisis short of war but we need the resolve to do it;
Diplomatically and Economically;
We need to force the Russians to Veto a condemnation resolution in the UNSC. Then we can proceed to isolate them diplomatically. we can convene every forum that exists to issue condemnations and offers of assistance. We can dissolve the G8 and exclude the Russians from it. We can have the Russian request to be admitted into the WTO rejected. We can convene NATO and OSCE to Censure Russia and offer both military and Humanitarian aid to Georgia.
We need to announce immediate deployment of anti-missle defenses to the Czech Republic, Poland, Latvia, and Ukraine.
Militarily;
We have a great opportunity to bleed the Russians here folks. The Georgians are no pushovers; It took 3 wars for the Bear to crush Chechnya and the Chechens had no outside help. With our help we can turn Tblisi into a meatgrinder a Russian graveyard.
What we need to do is immediately reinforce our SPECWAR and Special Forces people on the ground (they can come in overland from Turkey). Resupply the Georgians with both anti-tank (JAVELINS and DRAGONS) and short range anti-air weapons (STINGERS.)as well as deploy Naval assets (DDGs AEGIS Destroyers)into the Eastern Black Sea from the Eastern Med immediately they could be there by the end of the week to bolster Georgian airspace. We can also stage our efforts out of Incirlik in Turkey.
Then its up to the Russians to decide if they want a war with the United States by firing on our ships.
Buck up people this is serious but not a lost cause;
oh and before some sniveling turd tries to cover up their own cowardice by impugning me (by calling me a chicken hawk or some other cowards argument) I wore the uniform of a Naval Officer and would do so in a heartbeat if called upon to do it.
elduende on August 11, 2008 at 9:25 PM
Who did he warn? I must have missed it.
lowandslow on August 11, 2008 at 9:26 PM
A man with 300 foreign policy advisors can’t be wrong!
The last stand of The 300!
I’m sure 99% of HotAir Posters and Readers know that Russia has a UNSC veto. His Majesty probably does too, but maybe His Lordship thinks the peasants are too stupid to know it too.
Tony737 on August 11, 2008 at 9:28 PM
Obama is going to learn very swiftly that Russia
will give the UN the middle finger,
just like Iran has,
about 5 years ago!
Poor,clueless Hopey and Changey!
canopfor on August 11, 2008 at 9:28 PM
.8 not good enough? The children aren’t learning these days…
Entelechy on August 11, 2008 at 9:29 PM
If there’s any nuance, you would find it; so I’m going to say, no. From a reader at the corner:
Weight of Glory on August 11, 2008 at 9:29 PM
It’s all going to be OK now, YObama has demanded Russia pull the tanks out of the internet.
“Obama the Democratic US Presidential candidate, has demanded Moscow halt the internet attacks as well as observing a ceasefire on the ground.”
Alden Pyle on August 11, 2008 at 9:29 PM
I’m sure he’s “consistantly said”……
*wink*
IrishGirl17 on August 11, 2008 at 9:30 PM
It’s amazing how the UN is consistently the biggest obstacle to actual, real peace and cessation of brutality. It is the most beneficial to brutal thugs and dictators…
Where is that Democracy Caucus idea? Bring it front and center!
silverfox on August 11, 2008 at 9:30 PM
alphie and Dave Rywall will be by soon – they’ll add it all up; just wait and see.
Entelechy on August 11, 2008 at 9:30 PM
That’s like calling on Parcells to speak out against the Patriot’s cheatin’ ways.
jgapinoy on August 11, 2008 at 9:31 PM
We should move ahead with the resolution despite Russian veto threats, and submit Russia to the court of world public opinion.
HAHAHAHAAAAAaaaaaaa! That’s the funniest thing i’ve read all day! Does this moron actually think the Russians CARE what “The World” thinks? No, that’s only our lefty dems.
Tony737 on August 11, 2008 at 9:31 PM
Russia has a UNSC veto
Tony737 on Aug 11,2008 at 9:28PM.
Tony737: UNSC veto= middle finger!
Oops,did we do it again! haha
canopfor on August 11, 2008 at 9:33 PM
Groan. This will get out of hand, and we’ll be lucky to live through it.
Mike D. on August 11, 2008 at 9:33 PM
alphie and Dave Rywall will be by soon…
Entelechy on Aug 11,2008 at 9:30PM.
Emtelechy: I can’t wait! haha
canopfor on August 11, 2008 at 9:35 PM
Ahhhh…there is not there with this one…right now, it’s the only option…drop them from the G8 and write strongly worded letters of disapproval…then do everything clandestinely possible to help Georgia bleed them white a la Afghanistan:
Face it…we aren’t going in there with significant ground forces, but we have ways of helping them strategically and materially. Wretchard shows the way in the above article and it looks like the Georgians may be setting the stage for this approach.
AUINSC on August 11, 2008 at 9:36 PM
Oos sorry Entelechy,i ca-botched your name!
canopfor on August 11, 2008 at 9:36 PM
China would likely veto as well, simply because of the situation of it’s “provinces” and that it wouldn’t want the precident set.
BTW, has anyone bothered to ask, how many troops does the court of world opinion command?
Canadian Imperialist Running Dog on August 11, 2008 at 9:36 PM
Sorry, link to with above post is here:
AUINSC on August 11, 2008 at 9:37 PM
canopfor, not to worry – have fun in Canada tonight.
I sense in the last week that the O-glitter isn’t as intensely shiny as it was before.
Daylight is settling in. The honeymoon is over. Don’t know what it is, but something/s has/have shifted, lately.
Maybe it is that so much has, and can, happened/happen in such a short time.
Entelechy on August 11, 2008 at 9:41 PM
Even better, Allah: his undergrad major was International Relations!
You’d think he’d know that by heart!
(Trust me: that was my major in college, too, and I never forget those things!)
newton on August 11, 2008 at 9:42 PM
I’m sorry. Attention everyone, please! This is just to announce that in the thread next door, it is actually a patriotic thing to demand an attempt to get a UN resolution. The rationale being this could be a step to isolate Russia diplomatically.
Needless to say, as in the case of global warming, the fact that a liberal has adopted a position even in the same spirit, totally invalidates it. But I thought I’d inform people nonetheless.
Thanks. Sorry for the interruption.
freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 9:43 PM
Laurel and Hardy would have more cognizant ideas.
Rovin on August 11, 2008 at 9:43 PM
Shouldn’t the Democrats be calling for carpet bombing the Russians like we did against the Serbs? What am I missing here?
But I do think the Russian strategy is that they want to create an equivocation by representing themselves as the Albanians in this conflict where South Ossetia is like a Kosovo and Georgia is like Serbia.
Buddahpundit on August 11, 2008 at 9:43 PM
Good one.
From The Devil’s Dictionary, Ambrose Bierce, 1911:
Emphasis mine. It should be written in the marble entryway of the State Department.
Stop laughing! Really, it should.
silverfox on August 11, 2008 at 9:47 PM
Sorry for the interuption..
freevillage on Aug 11,2008 at 9:43PM.
freevillage: You Democrats are sure crafty,sounds like
you want to add Global Warming in with the
UN resolution!
canopfor on August 11, 2008 at 9:47 PM
Its a shame the Olympics are happening now instead of new summer. We could have really shown Russia by boycotting the games. Groan
GogglesPisano on August 11, 2008 at 9:48 PM
Well, the UN are the go-to guys, considering that only a panel of international statesmen can determine what’s best for the world.
As long as the dirty American imperialists don’t get their hands the situation, all will be fine.
Obama World Emperor ’08!
Grafted on August 11, 2008 at 9:48 PM
I totally resent being called “you Democrats” and insist on being called “you, dirty commie”.
freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 9:49 PM
Well, actually that’s what we type but the Rove correction device on our keyboards (mandatory) turns it into “you Democrats”.
He wants us to cool things down a bit until we get full control of Congress again, y’know.
SteveMG on August 11, 2008 at 9:52 PM
I totally resent being called “you Democrats”
freevillage on Aug 11,2008 at 9:49PM.
freevillage:Thats not what is says on page 43,paragraph
3,line 22!
On the Liberal Democratic Handbook!
canopfor on August 11, 2008 at 9:53 PM
Technically, so did McCain (exceprt from his statement):
“The United States and our allies should continue efforts to bring a resolution before the UN Security Council condemning Russian aggression, noting the withdrawal of Georgian troops from South Ossetia, and calling for an immediate ceasefire and the withdrawal of Russian troops from Georgian territory. We should move ahead with the resolution despite Russian veto threats, and submit Russia to the court of world public opinion.”
Midas on August 11, 2008 at 9:53 PM
moral duty in foreign matters is rare. it tends to spring up from the leftovers of a truly heinous act. georgia staging a military maneuver in the dead of night and then getting hit way too hard in return over it does not present to us a MORAL problem…just a strategic one. sorry.
ernesto on August 11, 2008 at 9:54 PM
Whoops, got ahead of myself there, sorry.
Midas on August 11, 2008 at 9:57 PM
Ping pong balls for cojones – airy and light.
Entelechy on August 11, 2008 at 9:57 PM
Rove correction devise…
SteveMG on Aug 11,2008 at 9:52PM.
SteveMG: In the spirit of the olympics,bloody nice serve!
The ball is in our court,give er!haha
canopfor on August 11, 2008 at 9:57 PM
Right? Or am I missing some nuance?
Allah,
I can’t believe you. try reading the rest of the statement!
NATO’s North Atlantic Council should convene in emergency session to demand a ceasefire and begin discussions on both the deployment of an international peacekeeping force to South Ossetia and the implications for NATO’s future relationship with Russia, a Partnership for Peace nation. NATO’s decision to withhold a Membership Action Plan for Georgia might have been viewed as a green light by Russia for its attacks on Georgia, and I urge the NATO allies to revisit the decision.
“The Secretary of State should begin high-level diplomacy, including visiting Europe, to establish a common Euro-Atlantic position aimed at ending the war and supporting the independence of Georgia. With the same aim, the U.S. should coordinate with our partners in Germany, France, and Britain, to seek an emergency meeting of the G-7 foreign ministers to discuss the current crisis. The visit of French President Sarkozy to Moscow this week is a welcome expression of transatlantic activism.
“Working with allied partners, the U.S. should immediately consult with the Ukrainian government and other concerned countries on steps to secure their continued independence. This is particularly important as a number of Russian Black Sea fleet vessels currently in Georgian territorial waters are stationed at Russia’s base in the Ukrainian Crimea.
“The U.S. should work with Azerbaijan and Turkey, and other interested friends, to develop plans to strengthen the security of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline.
“The U.S. should send immediate economic and humanitarian assistance to help mitigate the impact the invasion has had on the people of Georgia.
“Our united purpose should be to persuade the Russian government to cease its attacks, withdraw its troops, and enter into negotiations with Georgia. We must remind Russia’s leaders that the benefits they enjoy from being part of the civilized world require their respect for the values, stability and peace of that world. World history is often made in remote, obscure countries. It is being made in Georgia today. It is the responsibility of the leading nations of the world to ensure that history continues to be a record of humanity’s progress toward respecting the values and security of free people.
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/News/PressReleases/612817d8-e377-44df-9ebe-aca0ea95e945.htm
Now can you what you are missing. McCain gets an A+ BHO gets an F and Bush gets a C on this crisis so far.
unseen on August 11, 2008 at 9:57 PM
Aaaaaaahhhhh, sane people! No, we will not surrender to your… knowledge of facts of August, 8 or reason. MORAL DUTY, it is!
freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 9:59 PM
SteveMG: In the spirit of the olympics,bloody nice serve!
The ball is in our court,give er!haha
I’ve got the work cut out to match Phelps, though.
Seven? Eight?
Whew, my fingers aren’t that fast.
Nor my mind.
SteveMG on August 11, 2008 at 10:02 PM
I know, lets take 30 months, propose a dozen UN condemnations and watch Russia veto them all. That’ll show ‘em!
Better yet, with their wry sick humor they may let them pass so they can laugh at the letter telling them how angry the UN is.
Alden Pyle on August 11, 2008 at 10:03 PM
Moral Duty,it is!
freevillage on Aug 11,2008 at 9:59PM.
freevillage: Since the Lefty MSM have already ordained
Obama as President,pray tell,when does the
Democratic Obama send in the US troops?
canopfor on August 11, 2008 at 10:03 PM
Glad to see reason and maturity reigns in this posting place as well.
ThePrez on August 11, 2008 at 10:05 PM
ernesto on August 11, 2008 at 9:54 PM
try getting you facts straight. russia moved 8,000 troops into the region for an “anti-terrorism exercise” the “seperatists in South Oseestia” (i.e russia controlled milita) then fired into Georgia. Georiga responded with force to the shelling and moved into the region to knock out that shelling. Russia using this as a pretense then had an all out invasion of South Osesstia to “save its people” When the west failed to act russia bombed parts of georgia, when the west still failed to act, russia opened a second front, when the west still failed to act Russia moved into Georgia and took a stratgic city cutting the country in half. If the west fails to act the next attack will be the capital and the deposing of the elected government.
This was a perfect staged crisis where Russia just happened to have 8,000 troops in the neighborhood. If you can’t see the hand of the KGB in this you are blind. Classic propagranda that would make the old Soviet leaders smile from on high
unseen on August 11, 2008 at 10:05 PM
Seven,eight!
SteveMG on Aug 11,2008 at 10:02PM.
SteveMG: Hey,Phelps is on a roll,and in a way,that
alone makes watching this olympics extra
special! hehe:)
canopfor on August 11, 2008 at 10:07 PM
They also laid some railroad track that was subsequently used to transport troops this last weekend.
bnelson44 on August 11, 2008 at 10:07 PM
Meanwhile, Russia has taken Georgia, Latvia, Estonia, Lebanon, Israel, and Alaska.
SouthernGent on August 11, 2008 at 10:08 PM
Don’t worry. China has a veto too.
Brad on August 11, 2008 at 10:09 PM
Not unless I personally tell him. Being a commie and all, I have all but infinite authority over him.
freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 10:11 PM
If I were Putin I’d be laughing my arse off at even the thought of a UN condemnation. Russia can blackmail the EU by threatening to cut off oil and gas supplies, and bully everyone else. What are we gonna do about it? Talk to them? Maybe the world will finally learn how utterly useless the UN is.
DerKrieger on August 11, 2008 at 10:12 PM
Whom are you quoting?
freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 10:12 PM
bnelson44 on August 11, 2008 at 10:07 PM
The scary part is that russia did all this under the noses of the NSA, CIa and they never put the pieces together. I can maybe see how 20 men with box cutters could avoid detection but 8,000 soilders? you think there would be less trust in the government on other nations motives. when did we start trusting Russia on troop movements?
And if 8,000 troops were being shipped to the area why didn’t the USa conduct a training exercise in Georgia with say 1,000 troops during that exercise like we use to do. Putin has been in cold war mode for more then 5 years why would we assume Russian’s activites were peaceful.
unseen on August 11, 2008 at 10:14 PM
ernesto on August 11, 2008 at 9:54 PM
We have a moral duty to prevent a pro-US Democracy that has sent combat troops to stand by our side in our war from being swallowed up by a fascistic expansionist power. I’m also sorry that you don’t see that due to some relativistic argument.
elduende on August 11, 2008 at 10:14 PM
What’s the total length, and how much time did it take to build them?
freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 10:15 PM
Much better.
freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 10:16 PM
Whom are you quoting?
freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 10:12 PM
Some 1,650 US troops conducted a joint exercise with the Georgian military in mid-July. But they were out of the country when the hostilities flared.
At around the same time, the Russian military deployed 8,000 troops to the North Caucases for counter-terrorism exercises that Moscow said were unrelated to the tensions with its southern neighbor.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080811222408.40e5p19r&show_article=1
unseen on August 11, 2008 at 10:16 PM
At around the same time, the Russian military deployed 8,000 troops to the North Caucases for counter-terrorism exercises that Moscow said were unrelated to the tensions with its southern neighbor.
The U.S. defense official said about 8,000 to 10,000 Russian troops have moved into South Ossetia. They also have flown SU-25, SU-24, SU-27 and TU-22 fighters and bombers during the campaign.
But the official said there was no obvious buildup of Russian forces along the border that signaled an intention to invade.
source
bnelson44 on August 11, 2008 at 10:16 PM
Fake breaking news from Bendover Backwards News(BBN)
In light of these dire circumstances,Nancy Pelosi has
demanded an emergency meeting on the floor,no not the
oil drilling,but a vote on ending Russias aggression!
And Howard and Reid are howling mad,they’re demanding
an immediate military response before this war is lost,
also!(Snark).haha
canopfor on August 11, 2008 at 10:19 PM
yes the Russians have been planning this since before mid july. they staged the forces, build the required infrasturcture to ensure speedy travel over the natural terrian and waited till the US left the area.
those 1650 US soldiers should be placed back in Georgia has a firewall and line in the sand.
unseen on August 11, 2008 at 10:20 PM
Speaking of which, I hope no one is taking their eyes off the Iranian ball as this crisis continues.
Connie on August 11, 2008 at 10:20 PM
Can I clarify for myself just exactly how much you hate America? Your contention is:
Russia was among other things building some sort of a railroad capable of transporting troops into Georgia, and the level of NSA is such that they overlooked it.
Right?
Also, they specifically built a railroad to transport 8000 troops. This is more about your general IQ rather than hating America, so ignore it for now. Maybe we’ll get to that later.
freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 10:21 PM
Here’s the first solid backgrounder I’ve read on the matter: McClatchy
Key grafs:
Pentagon officials said that despite having 130 trainers assigned to Georgia, they had no advance notice of Georgia’s sudden move last Thursday to send thousands of Georgian troops into South Ossetia to capture that province’s capital, Tskhinvali.
Not only did the U.S. troops working alongside their Georgian counterparts not see any signs of an impending invasion, Georgian officials did not notify the U.S. military before the incursion, a senior U.S. defense official told McClatchy.
And:
At the same time, U.S. officials said that they believed they had an understanding with Russia that any response to Georgian military action would be limited to South Ossetia.
“We knew they were going to go crack heads. We told them again and again not to do this,” the State Department official said. “We thought we had an understanding with the Russians that any response would be South Ossetia-focused. Clearly it’s not.”
Russia pulled a fast one on us.
SteveMG on August 11, 2008 at 10:21 PM
But the official said there was no obvious buildup of Russian forces along the border that signaled an intention to invade.
bnelson44 on August 11, 2008 at 10:16 PM
Yeah I loved that line. a country puts 8,000 troops on the border with a country it has been fighting with diplomaticlly for the last several months and the “official” sees no signal of intention to invade. Priceless. these are the people protecting us you know.
I wonder if China ammased a battle group off the coast of Taiwan if the “offical” would see any signal.
Idiots run our government at every level.
unseen on August 11, 2008 at 10:22 PM
Apparently so.
From the above piece:
One problem in under-estimating the Russian response, another U.S. official said, was “a dearth of intelligence assets in the region.”
U.S. “national technical means,” the official name for spy satellites and other technology, are “pretty well consumed by Iraq, Afghanistan and now Pakistan,” the official said, and there was only limited monitoring of Russian military movements toward the Georgian border.
Additionally, the United States had lost access to vital information when Russia dropped out of the Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty in December to protest U.S. plans to build missile defense sites in Europe.
I’m not sure, though, what we could have done even if we had seen the movement/activity.
SteveMG on August 11, 2008 at 10:24 PM
Speaking of which,
Connie on Aug 11,2008 at 10:20PM.
Connie:With another two aircraft carriers sent to
the middle east,and this chaos in Georgia,
it might be a golden opportunity to wack
Iran!
canopfor on August 11, 2008 at 10:25 PM
freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 10:21 PM
First of all you are an idiot. second from the actions of the president and the sec of state anyone can see they were surprised. Add in the comments from the PM of Astrauila about the exchange between Bush and Putin at the games and it becomes clear that Russia pulled one over on the Spooks in washington.
As far as love for my country it would seem you are an idiot.
unseen on August 11, 2008 at 10:26 PM
OMG, I’m almost blind. What’s all this light? Are these… facts? Now? Why? Didn’t we have a nice haloperidol-free discussion without them?
freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 10:27 PM
Standing.
Weight of Glory on August 11, 2008 at 10:29 PM
I’m not sure, though, what we could have done even if we had seen the movement/activity.
SteveMG on August 11, 2008 at 10:24 PM
We had 1,650 soldiers in Georgia as of mid july. those 1,650 soldiers were available then I would assume they still are since it has only been two or three weeks since then. That would be enough to signal we are serious and not eneough to signal we want war.
unseen on August 11, 2008 at 10:29 PM
Didn’t we go through this with the Soviets in the past?
Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 10:30 PM
I think a lot of people were surprised. There had been trouble with South Ossetia for years and the Russians had their socalled peace keepers there, but no one expected a full scale invasion of Georgia.
Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 10:31 PM
Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 10:30 PM
yes and thanks to men like JFK and Reagan the outcome was much different than present. Russia understands nothing but force it would seem or at the very least the threat of force.
unseen on August 11, 2008 at 10:32 PM
Yes, but reportedly these Russia actions occurred only in the past week or so.
It’s conceivable that they waited until most of our troops were gone before taking action.
And weren’t most of those troops trainers for the Georgian army? Not really combat ready.
SteveMG on August 11, 2008 at 10:32 PM
Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 10:31 PM
yes its clear almost everyone was surprised by the invasion because they were snipering at each other for a decade. Still the recent uptick in troop movements, the escalation of words, the other international events going on like Russia saying they want closer ties with Cuba, basing nuclear bombers in Cuba, threats to Poland and Checkzvolgia of invasion over the defense shield, Russia blocking any movement on Iran, north Korea etc should have tipped off the government. It is fimilar in the same way our government ignored the signs before 9/11. T
unseen on August 11, 2008 at 10:36 PM
Uhm, tell me this. Have you ever seen a railroad under construction?
freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 10:36 PM
OMG, I’m almost blind. What’s all this light? Are these… facts? Now? Why? Didn’t we have a nice haloperidol-free discussion without them?
Because you would be left to spin Russia’s reasons for moving beyond Ossetia into Georgian territory, with further spinning taking place as they attack Tblisi.
Bishop on August 11, 2008 at 10:38 PM
freevillage, you’re under attack on the other thread, on the left, the big on, on topic.
Entelechy on August 11, 2008 at 10:39 PM
SteveMG on August 11, 2008 at 10:32 PM
My understanding is that they were taking part in joint exercises. But regardless I don’t think we need 100% combat troops inserted into Georgia A simple show of resolve in the capital of Georgia would I think make Russia pause in its attack. We can then take the pause and insert the combat troops and redine the borders.
unseen on August 11, 2008 at 10:39 PM
OMFG, I hope I’m not accused of not caring about 3335 quadrillions of dead people. It’s THE TRUTH that I’m afraid of most.
freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 10:41 PM
They’ve got oil and billions in oil revenue. The Iranians would be ten years behind in nuclear technology without the help of the Ruskies. Somebody better rewind the KGB-Awareness watch, wake up our intelligence agencies and prepare for a cold war against a more formidable adversary with money to burn, and leadership that’s flexing it’s muscles and looking for a fight.
fogw on August 11, 2008 at 10:41 PM
freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 10:36 PM
hmm yes. tell me this can you read? Bnelson is the one that suggest the railroad.
They also laid some railroad track that was subsequently used to transport troops this last weekend.
bnelson44 on August 11, 2008 at 10:07 PM
Not I. So if you can’t get your facts right on this thread why would anyone think you have any idea on what is going on internationally. Like I said idiot or mouth piece for Moscow. the attack on my love for my country was priceless.
unseen on August 11, 2008 at 10:43 PM
hmmm: railway repairs:
Ruling party wins landslide victory in parliamentary election. Opposition says election was rigged and threatens to boycott new parliament.
Russia sends 300 unarmed troops to Abkhazia, saying they are needed for railway repairs. Georgia accuses Russia of planning military intervention.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1102575.stm
seems freevillage wrong again.
unseen on August 11, 2008 at 10:50 PM
I’ll take… uhm, idiot. No, mouth-piece. Damn… Can I pick freedom hater? Please?
freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 10:51 PM
hmmm more on the railroad “repairs”:
Russian railroad troops will leave Georgia’s breakaway republic of Abkhazia within two months, Russia’s defense minister said on Saturday.
Around 300 Russian railroad troops arrived in the self-proclaimed republic on May 31 as part of a Moscow humanitarian assistance initiative for Abkhazia.
“There is no contingent in Abkhazia that would threaten Georgia, there are only construction workers who will leave Abkhazia once their work to restore the railroad has been completed,” Anatoly Serdyukov said.
The deployment met a furious reaction from Georgia, which accused Moscow of preparing for military intervention.
Relations between Russian and its ex-Soviet ally have deteriorated greatly in recent years over Russia’s support for Abkhazia and South Ossetia, another separatist region in Georgia, and Tbilisi’s drive for NATO membership.
NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer urged Russia on Tuesday to pull its unarmed railroad troops out of Abkhazia.
http://en.rian.ru/world/20080607/109500681.html
unseen on August 11, 2008 at 10:52 PM
freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 10:51 PM
you can pick whatever you want. One thing that IS clear is you have no idea what you are talking about. Russia repairs the railroads and sends 8,000 troops to the region. But they had no plans for this invasion. Georgia started it? Yeah right.
unseen on August 11, 2008 at 10:55 PM
They won’t.
It wouldn’t anyway.
drjohn on August 11, 2008 at 11:03 PM
If only this were a Tom Clancy novel: an elite US tank brigade would be sent in with a few F-15′s and one covert ops team, and the bad guys would get kicked all over the map in a matter of hours.
But alas, this is real life where the US Congress is on vacation, the Speaker is busy trying to sell copies of her book, the President stays in Beijing to watch a baseball game, and the Russians get to walk all over a small US ally.
Gaunilon on August 11, 2008 at 11:07 PM
Gaunilon on August 11, 2008 at 11:07 PM
you forgot to mention that the messiah has gone on vacation and is not currently answering prayers although i heard the UN was going to save us in his absence.
elduende on August 11, 2008 at 11:16 PM
“…and submit Russia to the court of world public opinion.”
Oh yeah! That’s going to sting!
As for the Chosen One. Unfortunately, he’s on vacation right now. But not to worry, he’ll weigh in with perfect 20-20 hindsight in a couple of weeks after all the dust has settled.
GarandFan on August 11, 2008 at 11:23 PM
As for the UN, it ain’t gonna due squat. They’ll make the usual obligatory noises (see Darfur). And accomplish just as much. The Georgians, unfortunately, are gonna take it in the ass.
GarandFan on August 11, 2008 at 11:26 PM
Isn’t Obama already like the Sultan/Czar/King/Prime Minister/President of the group otherwise known as Citizens Of The World. I mean, can’t he just go over to Russia and tell them to “Just stop it, DAMN IT! ENOUGH!” Spread that hope and change around…least he could do. Otherwise, his super powers of Oneness will surely be questioned.
PC14 on August 11, 2008 at 11:41 PM
Jaibones on August 11, 2008 at 11:46 PM
Question: In such a case could the UN not dispatch a small force to say Tbilisi under some obscure “article”? They could even be American, though in this case I would love to see some East European peace keepers. A force in Tbilisi would prevent the possible dissolving of the Georgian government, and I doubt even the Russians would confront international UN peace keepers. From there Russia would likely have to eventually withdraw back to South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
If Russia wants to play games, I don’t see why we can’t oblige them. They’ve crossed a line here and showed their paranoia to the world. A harsh response is called for, after all, how do you kill a bear? With several hunting dogs , or a snare. To me, the hunting dogs are the East Europeans, the snare is Riko Tunnel.
It may be dreaming, but I think such a reaction would catch the Russians off guard, like Ukraine’s port denial was.
Blacksoda on August 12, 2008 at 12:16 AM
Blacksoda on August 12, 2008 at 12:16 AM
peacekeepers require an Article 7 resolution to come out of the UNSC and guess who has a veto there?
elduende on August 12, 2008 at 12:22 AM
Of course, Georgia started it. Frigging Fox News says Georgia started it. US military advisers in Georgia say Georgia started it. What are you arguing with?
freevillage on August 12, 2008 at 12:47 AM
why is Russia allowed to brutally destroy/exterminate a breakaway province like Chechnya in the name of territorial integrity but when Georgia does the same thing they are attacked with the same army that occupies Chechnya?
elduende on August 12, 2008 at 1:10 AM
Oh wonderful . . . a cream puff resolution from the neutered U.N. that will surly be vetoed by Russia. Now I am completely convinced that Obama is irrevocably stupid.
rplat on August 12, 2008 at 8:45 AM
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