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Bush: Russians looking to depose Georgian government; Update: Video added

posted at 5:49 pm on August 11, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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President George Bush finally let Russia have it with both barrels this afternoon, at least in diplomatic terms.  In a terse and angry statement after his return from the Beijing Olympics, Bush accused Moscow of reneging on its commitment to proportionate response and said that “intelligence” indicated that Vladimir Putin might depose the freely-elected government in Tbilisi.  He also warned Russia that it risks relationships with the US and Europe and its standing in the world:

In a Rose Garden statement Monday, Bush said there appeared to be an attempt by Russia to unseat Georgia’s pro-Western president, Mikhail Saakashvili.
He demanded an immediate cease-fire, the withdrawal of Russian troops from the conflict zone and a return to the status quo as of Aug. 6.

Bush appears to have become angered at Russian double-dealing.  His statement suggests that Putin told him something very different than what has become obvious over the last 24 hours: the Russians want to take Georgia by force.  This statement offers the strongest indication yet that the US may start taking a more active role in assisting Georgia in resisting the Russian invasion.  It was the kind of firm, unmistakable signal that we should have sent in the conflict’s opening hours.
I’ll look for the video and post it ASAP.
Update: Still looking for video, but the West sent a very strong signal to Putin today.  The G-8 met on a conference call — or should I say the G-7?

Rice and the foreign ministers of Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy and Japan spoke in a conference call, during which they noted that Georgia had agreed to a cease-fire and wanted to see Russia sign on immediately, he said, adding that the call was one of more than 90 that Rice has made on the matter since Friday. …
The Group of Seven, or G7, is often expanded into what is known as the G8, a grouping that includes Russia, but Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov was notably not included in the call.

McCain has long called for the G-8 to expel Russia.  This snub indicates that the members may decide to trim their membership, and with it some economic benefits for Moscow.
Update II: MS-NBC has the first embeddable video of the speech:


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baldilocks:

I am sure that is true, but then again it might backfire.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 7:27 PM

Any decision has risks. I’m just stating one of Russia’s motives, not advocating one or the other.

baldilocks on August 11, 2008 at 7:30 PM

Every single poll in Ukraine shows the majority is against joining the NATO.

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 7:27 PM

I actually wouldn’t be surprised at this. Russia was pretty effective at assmiliating nations the soviet union devoured (mainly by infesting them with their own population). It’s why, for example, Moldova isn’t a part of Romania.

Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 7:30 PM

Does Western Europe even have enough of a military to pose a credible threat to Russia anymore? Seems like they have allowed their militaries to shrink dramatically in recent decades, relying heavily on the United States to police the world and back them up if necessary. I know they’re nuclear, but so is Russia. Can Europe even do anything to make Russia get out of Georgia when Putin refuses to move? We’re a little busy at the moment.

aero on August 11, 2008 at 7:30 PM

Well I don’t have a newsletter just yet, but if/when I do I think I will call it “Hate R Me and the Road to Hell” and each week it will have a “What additional new who/what/where to hate for the week” section plus a recap of all the other who/what/where to hate. The newsletter will only cost $99.99 a year, but all subscribers will have to pass an very stringent online hate quiz to subscribe.

MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 7:12 PM

All that hate’s gonna burn you up, son…

Or does it keep you warm?

;)

Frozen Tex on August 11, 2008 at 7:31 PM

Maxx:

Oh well, they will just say that if Bush was a real man he would nuke them or something and be done with it. Or something.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 7:28 PM

A sure sign that you have lost the debate when you have to go all strawman.

MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 7:31 PM

Darth:

Why not?? I grew up in the 50’s and 60’s while the Soviets were busy gobbling up all sorts of hapless little countries and the only time I remember us really coming close to going head to head..was the Cuban missile crisis. And if those missiles had been in another hemisphere instead of 60 miles from Florida, we would not have gotten that close then.

We had our moments of tension of course. There were all sorts of proxy wars in the Cold War, but we did not go head to head then..because of those nukes. Why would we today?

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 7:31 PM

And you misspelled prima facile.

MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 7:28 PM

Now I am surely convinced that someone is impersonating you today.

JiangxiDad on August 11, 2008 at 7:32 PM

MB4:

What strawman? Did you not read Darth’s comments. But Maxx’s question was a good one. If the Bush bashers had to actually run something other than their mouths, what would they do in realistic terms to stop the Russians?

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 7:33 PM

Please don’t feed the MB4.

wise_man on August 11, 2008 at 7:34 PM

All that hate’s gonna burn you up, son…

Or does it keep you warm?

;)

Frozen Tex on August 11, 2008 at 7:31 PM

Some like it hot and some sweat
When the heat is on
Some feel the heat and decide that
They can´t go on
Some like it hot, but you can´t tell how hot
Til you try
Some like it hot, so let´s turn up the heat
Til the sensitive ones fry

And on that note I think that we should all get back to our regularly scheduled programming.

MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 7:34 PM

NATO has not allowed Georgia and Ukraine to join, for fear of provoking Russia.

JiangxiDad on August 11, 2008 at 7:18 PM

That could be what changed this week… NATO has been looking for a reason to continue existing, and this is exactly the situation they were created to defuse, by drawing a clear line beyond which military aggression is unthinkable. Of course, God only knows what NATO would actually do if Russia went ahead and called their bluff by launching an operation against the Ukraine, after they became members… and judging from his comments these last few days, God has not seen fit to pass this intelligence along to His Annointed Messenger.

Taiwan can not hold out against China, but they are better able to defend themselves than Georgia is.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 7:12 PM

Very true, and we may never know how much the difficulty of invasion, rather than international condemnation, has kept the Chinese in line… but the model of what’s happening to Georgia makes me wonder if a similar scenario could not be carefully constructed against Taiwan, producing some kind of pretext to bring military force to bear - probably more like a blockade than a full-on invasion - while domestic Taiwanese allies of China work to swiftly break morale from within. The best thing Taiwan has going for it at the moment is fairly cordial relations with the Chinese, defusing any urgent sense that Taiwan is a problem that needs to be solved… but you never know when a new Taiwanese administration might become provocative by talking loudly about all that “freedom” and “liberty” stuff that so irritates the Chicoms.

This is what making nice gets you in the real world with the Russian Bear.

And Obama’s still in fantasyland, asking for a UN Security Council resolution to condemn Russia’s actions, when Russia has a veto on the Council.

Guess this is what that 3am phone call really looks like, and we now can see how unready the empty suit in Hawaii is to field a call like that.

avwh on August 11, 2008 at 7:15 PM

I wonder if this might be viewed, in retrospect, as the death blow to the United Nations, as currently constructed. If it’s powerless to act against a major nation violently ravaging a smaller neighbor in “broad daylight,” after years of doing nothing to help anyone anywhere, it’s hard to even its most ardent defenders to justify its continued existence as-is.

Doctor Zero on August 11, 2008 at 7:34 PM

baldilocks:

I understand.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 7:35 PM

Does Western Europe even have enough of a military to pose a credible threat to Russia anymore? Seems like they have allowed their militaries to shrink dramatically in recent decades, relying heavily on the United States to police the world and back them up if necessary. I know they’re nuclear, but so is Russia. Can Europe even do anything to make Russia get out of Georgia when Putin refuses to move? We’re a little busy at the moment.

aero on August 11, 2008 at 7:30 PM

With their technology they could easily crush Russia. The problem isn’t their military, but will to fight.

Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 7:35 PM

aero on August 11, 2008 at 7:30 PM

Russia is not the power it once was either… it does not have the millions of soldiers it could call on at one time…

Most of its equipment is in pretty bad shape, as they have to had the money to replace, or repair, for many years.

Now thats changing due to the high price of oil…

Europe Vs. Russia would be a pretty fair fight, even without us… but give a few years of high oil prices and Russia will once more be in a dominant position… with Europe paying for their military resurgance.

Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 7:35 PM

At about :54, Bush says, “It now appears an effort may be underway to depose Russia’s duly elected government.”

Why does he do these things?

jimmy the notable on August 11, 2008 at 6:55 PM
Because sometimes Bush says exactly what is on his mind.

Texas Gal on August 11, 2008 at 7:12 PM

Texas Gal is reading my mind…

Kaptain Amerika on August 11, 2008 at 7:36 PM

Please don’t feed the MB4.

wise_man on August 11, 2008 at 7:34 PM

So you still have your appointment as blog moderator I see.

MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 7:36 PM

It’s why, for example, Moldova isn’t a part of Romania.

LOL, tell me please about Moldova and Romania. I only have a wife from there, and my in-laws living there. You simply don’t know anything about that country. The country had virtually all of its Russian and Jewish population to flee. They still wouldn’t join Romania. How come?

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 7:38 PM

Any decision has risks. I’m just stating one of Russia’s motives, not advocating one solution or another.

baldilocks on August 11, 2008 at 7:39 PM

MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 7:34 PM

I love The Power Station.

But I was quoting “Red Dawn”.

Frozen Tex on August 11, 2008 at 7:39 PM

Now thats changing due to the high price of oil…

Europe Vs. Russia would be a pretty fair fight, even without us… but give a few years of high oil prices and Russia will once more be in a dominant position… with Europe paying for their military resurgance.

Romeo13 on August 11, 2008 at 7:35 PM

Russia’s foreign reserves climb to $406.6 billion

MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 7:39 PM

This is just another reason to produce more oil and invest in more alternative fuels. I am sure that pipeline in Georgia has something to do with Russia’s decision to go in there. The Russians want to control that oil and they want higher prices. I am really surprised that prices have not gone up yet.

I think the Russians want to control the energy sources.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 7:40 PM

LOL, tell me please about Moldova and Romania. I only have a wife from there, and my in-laws living there. You simply don’t know anything about that country. The country had virtually all of its Russian and Jewish population to flee. They still wouldn’t join Romania. How come?

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 7:38 PM

What solution would you advocate?

baldilocks on August 11, 2008 at 7:40 PM

Seems like Europe ought to be strongly motivated to do whatever is necessary to stop Russia’s aggression. It’s their oil pipeline in Georgia that’s at stake, isn’t it? I think I read somewhere that it’s the last oil pipeline going into Europe that’s not under Russian or Iranian control. If I were Europe, I would NOT want Putin’s hand in control of my oil supply. I’m surprised they’re not already shoving nukes up Putin’s nose over the possibility.

aero on August 11, 2008 at 7:40 PM

This is just another reason to produce more oil and invest in more alternative fuels.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 7:40 PM

Exactly.

baldilocks on August 11, 2008 at 7:41 PM

Darth:

Why not?? I grew up in the 50’s and 60’s while the Soviets were busy gobbling up all sorts of hapless little countries and the only time I remember us really coming close to going head to head..was the Cuban missile crisis. And if those missiles had been in another hemisphere instead of 60 miles from Florida, we would not have gotten that close then.

We had our moments of tension of course. There were all sorts of proxy wars in the Cold War, but we did not go head to head then..because of those nukes. Why would we today?

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 7:31 PM

I already explained why not.
1. They won’t start a nuclear holocaust over two insignificant provinces.
2. Our missile shield scares the crap out of them. Why do you think they react so violently to the US installing missile defenses in their former sattelite nations?

There was no technological gap like this in the Cold War. There is now. Russia wouldn’t be able to fight with us on an equal level. If they tried to use nukes they’d be the only ones getting wiped out.

Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 7:41 PM

I guess Russia didn’t want to wait to see if Obama would be President. It would be sure smooth sailing if they did and he was.

hadsil on August 11, 2008 at 7:43 PM

. If I were Europe, I would NOT want Putin’s hand in control of my oil supply. I’m surprised they’re not already shoving nukes up Putin’s nose over the possibility.

aero on August 11, 2008 at 7:40 PM

It begins in Baku, I believe. Azerbaijan may be next on the hit list.

JiangxiDad on August 11, 2008 at 7:46 PM

Darth:

How do you know what they will or will not do? They obviously do not give a damn what the rest of the world thinks. They might think they can control the whole damn thing until they find they can’t.

Besides, Bush is not a King. He would have to get people like Madam Pelosi to go along with this. He would have to deal with the other countries in NATO. If the US did not go to war over eastern Europe, why would we go to war over Georgia?

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 7:46 PM

If I were Europe, I would NOT want Putin’s hand in control of my oil supply. I’m surprised they’re not already shoving nukes up Putin’s nose over the possibility.

aero on August 11, 2008 at 7:40 PM

Europe fight its own battles??? You’ve got to be kidding.

And don’t “Europe’s” nukes have USAF stamped on them.

baldilocks on August 11, 2008 at 7:48 PM

Darth:

How do you know what they will or will not do?

He doesn’t know for sure. No one does, of course. Some of us are just making estimates from having observed the parties in question for a long time or, like freevillage, being a citizen of one of the states in question.

baldilocks on August 11, 2008 at 7:51 PM

so does anyone remember this?

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=43078

who says we don’t have their own nukes pointed at them… who says they still have control of all of their nukes?

Kaptain Amerika on August 11, 2008 at 7:53 PM

lol.

the bitterness over the 2000 election still reigns!!!

the bush bashers never got pass it and every thing the man does is about 2000.

mylegsareswollen on August 11, 2008 at 7:56 PM

baldilocks:

I understand that, but it could just as easily be said that because of our superiority in terms of technology the Russians would be more likely to use their nukes if we confronted them on a battlefield.

However, to assume that Bush can just launch a military response to this situation on his own just to show the world how big and bad we are…is not very realistic.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 7:56 PM

Before I run off here for a while, let’s play a little “What if”. Say that none of this whole thing with Russian aggression had happen, yet. Say that it didn’t happen until one year from now and that Obama is elected in November and takes office in January.

OK, are you with me so far?

Now, let’s say that Obama’s actions are exactly a year from now like Bush’s actions have been so far now in the present. Remeber now we are pretending like this isn’t happening now.

Still with me?

What would the writing in “above the line” in this thread be like? Would the comments on this thread be calling Obama, Churchill or would they be calling Obama, Chamberlain and even worse?

I think we all know the answer, don’t we?

MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 7:58 PM

LOL, tell me please about Moldova and Romania. I only have a wife from there, and my in-laws living there. You simply don’t know anything about that country.

Really? Your wife’s from there? I’m from there jackass. I’m not up to date on liberal protocol but I believe that gives me more irrelevant Absolute Moral Authority than you.

The country had virtually all of its Russian and Jewish population to flee.

It had virtually all of its Russian and Jewish population flee yet Russia has an army there (against their wishes I might add). 30% of its population isn’t Romanian, it’s slavic. Who the hell do you think you’re kidding?

They still wouldn’t join Romania. How come?

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 7:38 PM

Soviet brainwashing and threats primarily. The fact that Romania is a crap country and unification might make things worse from an economic standpoint doesn’t help either. It doesn’t change the fact that the border was artifically pulled out of Russia’s ass, with half of the region called Moldova as part of Romania and the other half an independent country. That’s standard divide and conquer soviet policy.

Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 8:00 PM

What solution would you advocate?

A solution to what problem? I haven’t questioned a single solution. I’m just merely observing what for the most part is lies and utter ignorance initiated by a laughable analysis of a not very bright Republican apparatchik.

Yes, I know… the owner… blah blah. What can I do? I’m sorry… No, I’m not.

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:00 PM

MB4 on August 11, 2008 at 7:58 PM

Dude, a country that is our ally is about to be overrun. Perhaps with hours. People are dying. Our credibility is dying along with them.

And you are posing hypotheticals?

I have seen much snark from you, but no solutions. Rather than kneecapping commenters, howz about you put forth your own little solution to this?

I await….

wccawa on August 11, 2008 at 8:03 PM

That ain’t gonna play well in Warsaw. Or in Prague (even though they have been pretty quiet thus far) or in Budapest, etc, etc.

France is gonna try to help Russia out with all of these nations, but I would guess they still remember Chirac telling them to all STFU.

funky chicken on August 11, 2008 at 6:15 PM

Agreed. It’s hard to scare former slaves, who remember having not much to lose except freedom.

silverfox on August 11, 2008 at 8:04 PM

I just now watched the video, that was very strongly worded. Bush used the word MUST several times. He has done all he can for the moment, but if Russia ignores Bush’s statement it sounds to me that he will take military action and I think he should. Pray for the President and Georgia.

Maxx on August 11, 2008 at 8:04 PM

Darth:

How do you know what they will or will not do? They obviously do not give a damn what the rest of the world thinks. They might think they can control the whole damn thing until they find they can’t.

They’re not stupid or insane. That’s what you’d have to be to start a nuclear war over this. Obviously I don’t know for sure but Russia is about as likely to nuke us or Europe as Israel is.

Besides, Bush is not a King. He would have to get people like Madam Pelosi to go along with this. He would have to deal with the other countries in NATO.

Pelosi won’t oppose it now that St. Barrack has come out in opposition to Russia.

If the US did not go to war over eastern Europe,

why would we go to war over Georgia?

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 7:46 PM

Again, the Cold War reasons aren’t applicable. This is a small theater of war and in a conventional war, with our technology we can probably crush russia with no casualties at which point they’ll do the reasonable thing and pull out.

Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 8:06 PM

Maxx:

I don’t know if it is that simple. The President does have constraints to deal with.

I do think that there are things that can be done, I just do not know if they will be in time.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:07 PM

I haven’t questioned a single solution. I’m just merely observing what for the most part is lies and utter ignorance initiated by a laughable analysis of a not very bright Republican apparatchik.

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:00 PM

Coming from someone who said Jason Mattera told the outrageous “lie” about John Kerry being memorialized in a Hanoi museum, because he did not know what “memorial” means… that’s rich.

silverfox on August 11, 2008 at 8:08 PM

I guess when you were looking in to that fn migit tyrant’s heart you missed seeing the fire and brimstone.

TheSitRep on August 11, 2008 at 8:09 PM

What solution would you advocate?

A solution to what problem? I haven’t questioned a single solution. I’m just merely observing what for the most part is lies and utter ignorance initiated by a laughable analysis of a not very bright Republican apparatchik.

Yes, I know… the owner… blah blah. What can I do? I’m sorry… No, I’m not.

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:00 PM

That’s what I thought you say. I’ll resume ignoring you.

baldilocks on August 11, 2008 at 8:10 PM

baldilocks:

I understand that, but it could just as easily be said that because of our superiority in terms of technology the Russians would be more likely to use their nukes if we confronted them on a battlefield.

Over south ossetia and some other crap province I can’t even spell? No way in hell is this even remotely plausible or reasonable in any way. They’ll annihilate their own country because they can’t install a puppet government in some crapass tiny country? Gimme a friggin’ break.

However, to assume that Bush can just launch a military response to this situation on his own just to show the world how big and bad we are…is not very realistic.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 7:56 PM

He doesn’t have to do much, and he doesn’t have to do it on his own.

Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 8:10 PM

you=you’d

baldilocks on August 11, 2008 at 8:10 PM

Darth:

Of course Nancy would oppose it. The Democrats voted for the war in Iraq and how long did it take them to turn on that.

I am sorry, but I just do not think that Bush can go to Congress and say he wants to send troops to Georgia to fight the Russian army and they will respond with a Yes sir.

I just do not see that happening, whatever Barack might have said on the campaign trail. Besides Barack is not talking about military action, he is talking about keeping them out of the World Trade Organization {not a bad idea}.

And the Cold War is applicable too. All those areas were small theaters. The Czechs, were just a small country. Hungary, not much to it… and so on and so forth. The issue was still the same.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:12 PM

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:00 PM

Wait a second, youre a liberal? I can’t believe I actually took the time to answer your asinine comment. Man, I could’ve spent that time rolling Battle Fortresses over Soviet Apocalypse tanks in Red Alert 2 instead. What a waste.

Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 8:12 PM

I just now watched the video, that was very strongly worded. Bush used the word MUST several times.

I hope for your own sake that you’re still in grade school. Are the any standards here of what constitutes a not laughable statement? Would it be ok to argue that Bush let Putin have with his warrior squint? Or is that where we would finally draw a line?

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:12 PM

Man, I could’ve spent that time rolling Battle Fortresses over Soviet Apocalypse tanks in Red Alert 2 instead. What a waste.

… or chew up a few pacifiers.

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:14 PM

And Darth, you are assuming that the Russians will do the realistic thing? We have enough nukes between us to wipe out the human race how many times? Was that reasonable?

If what you saying is true, then why didn’t we just go to Moscow years ago? Were they anymore interested in mass suicide then than they are today?

Do you really think the American people would support an armed conflict with Russia?

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:15 PM

That’s what I thought you say. I’ll resume ignoring you.

Well, I could care less as you can imagine. I asked you a clarifying question. You can answer it, and I’ll try to respond in return. Or you can play a baby, in which case I already have one.

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:18 PM

freevillage:

Bush said Saddam must comply with the UN mandatory force resolutions. I bet if Saddam were still with us, he would say that must meant something.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:18 PM

… or chew up a few pacifiers.

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:14 PM

For someone whose only purposes are to infer things not implied in the comments of others or to snark while others are laying their lives on the line for purposes they believe in–even if you don’t–you sure seem confident when playing the Infant Card.

baldilocks on August 11, 2008 at 8:19 PM

I would not be surprised however, if there were not some special forces in Georgia right now. Just sorta checking things out.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:19 PM

Darth:

Of course Nancy would oppose it. The Democrats voted for the war in Iraq and how long did it take them to turn on that.

This isn’t on the same scale and difficulty level. Plus, they haven’t pulled out of Iraq yet so there’s some hope they still have a bit of the hawkish american spirit in them. Pelosi does have a durable pair of titanium alloy balls comparable to Hillary’s, even if she doesn’t usually use them for good.

I am sorry, but I just do not think that Bush can go to Congress and say he wants to send troops to Georgia to fight the Russian army and they will respond with a Yes sir.

I don’t think so either. Instead of troops he can send vessels to the black sea and hopefully negotiate permission to use airbases in Turkey or Ukraine. Navy and Air Force aren’t needed as much in Iraq/Afghanistan. The Georgians can handle the ground work like the Afghani Northern Alliance did (partially) in Afghanistan.

I just do not see that happening, whatever Barack might have said on the campaign trail. Besides Barack is not talking about military action, he is talking about keeping them out of the World Trade Organization {not a bad idea}.

Bush hasn’t talked about military action either. What Barrack has done is come out against Russia, which is sufficient support. I doubt he’d be willing to publicly state “screw our allies, let Russia have them” so close to the election.

And the Cold War is applicable too. All those areas were small theaters. The Czechs, were just a small country. Hungary, not much to it… and so on and so forth. The issue was still the same.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:12 PM

The small theater was regarding the comparison with Iraq. Compared to Iraq the expenses for this would be tiny. We have no insurgency to fight. We’d have a conventional war against uniformed enemy forces of questionable intelligence wielding ancient military equipment. Compared to even the initial takeover of Iraq this would be a piece of cake.

Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 8:20 PM

For someone whose only purposes are to infer things not implied in the comments of others or to snark while others are laying their lives on the line for purposes they believe in–even if you don’t–you sure seem confident when playing the Infant Card.

That’s a fairly unusual way to ignore someone. But while you’re in this loud mode of ignoring, you could explain what you think constitutes a problem, and I’ll tell you what I think about it.

Writing at length about everything at once is impractical.

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:20 PM

… or chew up a few pacifiers.

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:14 PM

Does the thought arouse you?

Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 8:21 PM

Olby and Maddow just delivered their stance on the issue: When Russia is acting aggressive, respond passively.

ThePrez on August 11, 2008 at 8:22 PM

I hope for your own sake that you’re still in grade school. Are the any standards here of what constitutes a not laughable statement? Would it be ok to argue that Bush let Putin have with his warrior squint? Or is that where we would finally draw a line?

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:12 PM

You remind me that some people are more difficult to love than others. Now standby and learn something over the next few days. The word MUST being used in this context is very significant.

Maxx on August 11, 2008 at 8:22 PM

Does the thought arouse you?

No, babies and sex aren’t ever in my mind simultaneously. I’ve somehow avoided acquiring your pedophilic tendencies.

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:24 PM

Now standby and learn something over the next few days.

May I ask how many days?

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:24 PM

O.k. you two, seriously, take this outside.

ThePrez on August 11, 2008 at 8:26 PM

Darth:

Sufficient support? You think that because Barack finally got around to condemning Russia’s actions, that is sufficient?

I disagree. This is Bush, they would in all likelihood oppose the action just because he took it. It is an election year after all.

And I also do not think that if we went to Turkey and said, what say we use your bases to launch air attacks against the Russian army in Georgia, that they would say Yes Sir either.

The fear will be that it does not end in Georgia. The fear will be that once our people start killing their people the whole thing will escalate. And because of that fear I just do not see it happening.

But this is how wars happen. And it might be that things will escalate anyway.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:27 PM

I don’t know if it is that simple. The President does have constraints to deal with.

I do think that there are things that can be done, I just do not know if they will be in time.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:07 PM

Yeah… well I guess we could always push them out of there. We did that in Kuwait. It really sounds to me that Bush just went toe-to-toe with Russia and if I was Putin, considering Bush’s track record I would be having second thoughts right now.

Maxx on August 11, 2008 at 8:28 PM

May I ask how many days?

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:24 PM

Sure freevillage, you can ask anything here. But I don’t have the answer.

Maxx on August 11, 2008 at 8:29 PM

And I also think it is worth mentioning that Russia is right there, look at a map. They are not going anywhere. No we will not have to fight an insurgency, but the behemoth is right next door to Georgia.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:29 PM

That’s a fairly unusual way to ignore someone.

True. I’m surprised you noticed.

But while you’re in this loud mode of ignoring, you could explain what you think constitutes a problem, and I’ll tell you what I think about it.

Writing at length about everything at once is impractical.

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:20 PM

I wouldn’t be addressing you at all except for the fact that, on the first page of this thread, you addressed me first–inferring something I didn’t imply.

So why don’t you write at length what your problem is. Maybe you’ll get lucky and someone will fix it.

baldilocks on August 11, 2008 at 8:30 PM

So why don’t you write at length what your problem is. Maybe you’ll get lucky and someone will fix it.

Fair enough. My problem is someone keeps saying every other minute how they are so ignoring me. I almost wish they started paying attention. Then we could actually talk less. Any solution to this?

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:34 PM

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:24 PM

Never? I’m rather scared to ask how you think we reproduce. Maybe you subscribe to the Rosie O’Donnel brand of science and think storks aid in the process. Or perhaps I offended you by associating your oral habits with an inadequate phallic symbol. Maybe some Spetsnaz level ordnance would be more adequate for your needs, commie?

Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 8:34 PM

Maxx:

Yes, we did that in Kuwait, after we went to the UN and the President got support {lukewarm} from the Congress. My point is not that he can not do it, but that he can not do it alone. Not for any sustained period.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:34 PM

Sure freevillage, you can ask anything here. But I don’t have the answer.

Is this like War on Drugs or War on Terror, where every new day reinforces the great success?

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:36 PM

My problem is someone keeps saying every other minute how they are so ignoring me. I almost wish they started paying attention. Then we could actually talk less. Any solution to this?

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:34 PM

How about you ignore me? If you had, earlier today, you’d have one less person to talk to.

There. You problem’s solved. Have a nice life.

baldilocks on August 11, 2008 at 8:37 PM

There is some circumstance however, in which the President can act for a short time, like 24 or 48 hours in response to certain emergency situations in which time is of the essence, as they say. I am not sure what the criteria is.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:38 PM

2. Our missile shield scares the crap out of them. Why do you think they react so violently to the US installing missile defenses in their former sattelite nations?

Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 7:41 PM

I also found it interesting to see how upset the Russians were over the agreement to install a missile shield in the Czech Republic. That’s the same technology that Barry Obama has been telling us doesn’t work and isn’t worth the money we’ve been spending on it.

I hope some reporter (or debate moderator) will ask Barry to explain why the Russians got so worked up over U.S. technology that doesn’t work. Since Barry wants to stop spending on missile defense systems (so that he can have more money to spend on all his new domestic welfare programs to promote “social justice”), I think it’s an issue that would interest most Americans.

AZCoyote on August 11, 2008 at 8:39 PM

There is some circumstance however, in which the President can act for a short time, like 24 or 48 hours in response to certain emergency situations in which time is of the essence, as they say. I am not sure what the criteria is.

Whatever the criteria are, I’m sure they include something like this. If you think you have time to hug two half naked women, then it’s not a real emergency.

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:40 PM

We a

re not going to send troops and go head-to-head with another nuclear power.

MrLynn on August 11, 2008 at 7:12 PM

Why not? They’re not stupid enough to nuke us over a couple of shitty little provinces. They’re not our equal anymore. If they try it it won’t end with MAD, it would end with suicide. We’ll end up shooting down most of their nukes and turn their piece of crap country into a miniature sun.

Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 7:28 PM

We don’t have a missile defense shield conceivably equal to Russia’s thousands of nukes–even if half of them didn’t work.

And no American President is going to risk losing half a dozen cities, or more, to save Georgia from the Soviets–er, I mean the Russians.

MrLynn on August 11, 2008 at 8:41 PM

Darth:

Sufficient support? You think that because Barack finally got around to condemning Russia’s actions, that is sufficient?

Yes. The Prophet Barrack (PBUH) has, at the very least, been pretending to agree that violence is necessary sometimes. I don’t see why he’d oppose it here when his latest statement got MORE hawkish compared to his original.

I disagree. This is Bush, they would in all likelihood oppose the action just because he took it. It is an election year after all.

That’s all the more reason to not be so reactionary. They don’t want to look like a bunch of sissies or their golden boy won’t get elected.

And I also do not think that if we went to Turkey and said, what say we use your bases to launch air attacks against the Russian army in Georgia, that they would say Yes Sir either.

I agree, but I think we can talk them into it. Russia and Turkey don’t exactly have the best history with each other.

The fear will be that it does not end in Georgia. The fear will be that once our people start killing their people the whole thing will escalate. And because of that fear I just do not see it happening.

I think quite the opposite. I think Putin is testing the waters and Georgia is his Sudetenland. If the West shows some teeth he’ll back down.

But this is how wars happen. And it might be that things will escalate anyway.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:27 PM

Russia doesn’t have the technology, strategic ability or manpower to escalate anything. The only way they’ll do more harm than they’re doing now is if we let them.

Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 8:41 PM

I hope some reporter (or debate moderator) will ask Barry to explain why the Russians got so worked up over U.S. technology that doesn’t work.

That’s obvious. Because it’s a slippery slope. Whatever doesn’t work now may in future. Plus the very fact the base is there lets the Russians think the equipment on it will be upgraded with time etc.

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:41 PM

Yes, we did that in Kuwait, after we went to the UN and the President got support {lukewarm} from the Congress. My point is not that he can not do it, but that he can not do it alone. Not for any sustained period.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:34 PM

This is where Bush is going to have to get people on board with us very quickly. He’s pretty good at that, he put a large coalition together for Iraq and I think this is even more serious. It’s time for Congress to come back from vacation.

Maxx on August 11, 2008 at 8:42 PM

And no American President is going to risk losing half a dozen cities, or more, to save Georgia from the Soviets–er, I mean the Russians.

A batallion of brave gay pedophiles led by Darth Executor could save us from that.

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:44 PM

This is where Bush is going to have to get people on board with us very quickly. He’s pretty good at that, he put a large coalition together for Iraq and I think this is even more serious. It’s time for Congress to come back from vacation.

OK… for the stupid liberal over here… could you clarify the presence or absence of any sarcasm?

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:46 PM

Russia doesn’t have the technology, strategic ability or manpower to escalate anything. The only way they’ll do more harm than they’re doing now is if we let them.

Darth Executor on August 11, 2008 at 8:41 PM

Unlike in the eighties, they do have the money, however, assuming one of Moscow’s billionaires will part with any.

baldilocks on August 11, 2008 at 8:46 PM

Darth:

Well I am sorry, but I don’t think it is that simple. Not at all.

I doubt we could talk Turkey into something that might make them a target. I know you will say that won’t happen, that if we go in there and bomb some Russian tanks they will go home humiliated and chastened. But I am just not sure. These are Russians we are talking about here, they are not peaceful people. They do not back down easily. And they are willing to kill people for no good reason. Just look at Chechnya. Who cared how many civilians they killed there?

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:46 PM

And besides Darth, if it were that easy, why didn’t the Russians wait for Obama?

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:47 PM

Interesting, the comments…

It’s like the Georgians don’t exist. You guys are playing a virtual game with real lives.

wccawa on August 11, 2008 at 8:48 PM

These are Russians we are talking about here, they are not peaceful people.

I would question that they are people at all.

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:49 PM

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:41 PM

Bull. The Russians know it works, that’s why they’re so afraid of it. And if Obama ever bothered to do a little research, he’d know it works also.

AZCoyote on August 11, 2008 at 8:51 PM

freevillage:

What???

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:51 PM

freevillage:

What???

What? Something wrong?

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:52 PM

wccawa:

I saw in the headlines at Fox that the French President is planning to go to Georgia. I know they are real people and I know that they are scared and they are probably feeling abandoned right now.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:53 PM

OK… for the stupid liberal over here… could you clarify the presence or absence of any sarcasm?

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:46 PM

sarcasm = none

Maxx on August 11, 2008 at 8:54 PM

freevillage:

No, I just thought your comment was weird. As in strange. As in creepy and freaky and nonsensical.

Carry on.

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:54 PM

sarcasm = none

Thanks.

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:54 PM

No, I just thought your comment was weird. As in strange. As in creepy and freaky and nonsensical.

I’m sorry. I failed to stay within the reasonable bounds of calling the Russians an “amoral nation”. I’ll try more next time.

freevillage on August 11, 2008 at 8:56 PM

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:53 PM

Yeah, I think you’re right. And we should all feel ashamed. I know I do.

wccawa on August 11, 2008 at 8:56 PM

I don’t hear the Liberal outcry!

I don’t hear any Democrats b#tchin
about the Ruskies not going to the
UN!

Oh ya,thats right,it doesn’t fit
the Liberal agenda!

Oh ya,almost forgot,where’s the outcry
from the Code Pinko’s,and wheres the outcry
from the enviromental wackos,over bombed
oil piplines!

Oh ya,thats right,there not peace groups
or enviromentalists,there political or-
ganizations!

canopfor on August 11, 2008 at 8:58 PM

I guess Barack could go to Georgia and give a speech on hope and change and all that. I am sure the Russians would swoon at his feet and begin to chant his name as their eyes glaze over…

Terrye on August 11, 2008 at 8:58 PM

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