Ukraine enters the Caucasus fray
posted at 11:00 am on August 10, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Ukraine delivered a diplomatic bombshell across Russia’s bow today, escalating tensions in the region over their invasion of South Ossetia. The Kiev government announced that they may bar the Russian Navy from using their ports in the Crimea as part of its effort to maintain neutrality. Moscow had negotiated leases through 2017 with Kiev, and needs the ports to support its war on Georgia:
Ukraine’s Foreign Ministry said the deployment of a Russian naval squadron to Georgia’s Black sea coast has the potential of drawing Ukraine into the conflict.
“In order to prevent the circumstances in which Ukraine could be drawn into a military conflict … Ukraine reserves the right to bar ships which may take part in these actions from returning to the Ukrainian territory until the conflict is solved,” said the statement which was posted on the ministry’s Web site.
The Ukraine government didn’t need a reminder of how Russia treats its former satellites when they get too independent, but they’re certainly learning from the Georgian example. Ukraine’s move makes it clear to Vladimir Putin that Russia will pay a steep political and military price for their adventure in the Caucasus. It also sends a signal of support to the beleaguered government in Tbilisi, which can use all the friends it can get at the moment.
Russia seemed surprised at the statement. Their defense minister called the warning “quite unexpected”, but it follows normal diplomatic protocols. Any nation providing military support for a belligerent during an armed conflict is a de facto belligerent themselves, unless they cut off that support. Ukraine’s action isn’t just expected but a normal response for any nation wishing to remain at least neutral.
Russia may gain South Ossetia and Abkhazia in this grab, but Putin has let the mask slip. Former Soviet republics will learn to to fear Russia and to gravitate to the West for protection — as long as we stand firmly for Georgia. Fortunately, the Bush administration is now following John McCain’s lead on this issue and sending exactly that signal.
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Great Work from the Ukraine. We jut don’t need this hostility right now.
originalpechanga on August 10, 2008 at 11:03 AM
Good. Maybe I’m just not seeing it because of lacking news coverage, but the lack of outcry over this is driving me crazy. Russia’s making a land grab on the start of the olympics, and bombing civilian targets. What the hell?
Thanks for keeping up on the story, Ed.
BadgerHawk on August 10, 2008 at 11:06 AM
Well at least something will come out of it, and hopefully that something will be the exact opposite of what Russia wants, the complete loss of neutrality (even more so) of its former “republics.”
Blacksoda on August 10, 2008 at 11:06 AM
Is Obama going to condemn Ukraine now?
forest on August 10, 2008 at 11:06 AM
Nope… its a bigger messege than that.
Georgia is being used to send the messege that siding with America will not save you, because America is too busy to worry about you. They are too far away, and too politicly divided to help you… while we, the Big Bear, are right next door…
They are BOMBING the Capital of a supposed allie… and we are not sending in Planes to help. We could easily sweep the skies above Georgia… or at least fly CAP above it as a threat… but we are not.
Russia sees the timing as a golden opportunity to knock a chunk out of America’s reputation… We’re divided politicly, our banks are crumbling, we are in huge debt, and are involved in TWO foreign wars… and in a self imposed energy cruch… We ARE vulnerable.
Romeo13 on August 10, 2008 at 11:11 AM
Unfortunately look for russia to cut off the gas pipeline again to Ukraine.
This does push eastern europe more firmly into the US camp however. They want NATO there badly
William Amos on August 10, 2008 at 11:15 AM
You might cite some evidence that Bush needed McCain’s lead on this matter…
thegreatbeast on August 10, 2008 at 11:15 AM
You mean Medvedev isn’t calling the shots?
I’m shocked, shocked, I tell you.
I agree with Romeo13 – We could at LEAST provide air support, not just air superiority, but some ground attack. A few F-15s and A-10s would send a signal…
And let’s see some C-17s bringing supplies…
darkpixel on August 10, 2008 at 11:16 AM
I followed a link in Michael Tottens latest article to the foreigners section on Slate….some terrific reporting to be found there from independent journalists that have been working in that area for quite some time. Excellent background info to be gleaned to help understand, or at least to help me understand, exactly what this is all about. The MSM is simply not going to give this much coverage, not with the olympics and of course ‘the One’ to occupy them, so many thanks indeed ED for keeping after this. Obama is scary indeed, Putin is almost more so! He thinks we are too involved in games, elections, and Iraq and now is as good a time as he might ever get to make some planned moves. JMHO
dustoffmom on August 10, 2008 at 11:16 AM
Putin’s mask slips, huh.
I guess the radioactive hit against a bothersome reporter in London and the RAF scrambling to scare off Russian aircraft buzzing the British Isles was not enough (not to mention several other hostile acts.
RobCon on August 10, 2008 at 11:16 AM
“Russia sees the timing as a golden opportunity to knock a chunk out of America’s reputation… We’re divided politicly, our banks are crumbling, we are in huge debt, and are involved in TWO foreign wars… and in a self imposed energy cruch… We ARE vulnerable.”
lol. welcome to the real world you whining punk.
Ah, yes, the Obama generation of trust funds and free rides will soon learn that history didn’t end in the 90’s or begin on 9/11.
The human condition’s a bitch….that’s why we need leaders with EXPERIENCE.
mylegsareswollen on August 10, 2008 at 11:18 AM
BTW question. Did Georgia feel it had to act now in the last days of the Bush Administration ? Is the coming of Obama presidency a warning to pro US countries that they need to worry about US backing ?
Obama will be the most liberal foreign policy president since Jimmy Carter. Carter abandoned all our allies from the Shah to Nicaruagua. The Russians ran in that vacuum and Saddam came to power and Zia al Haq seized power ushering in the Islamic party in Pakistan all in 1979.
When America retreats our friends get nervious.
William Amos on August 10, 2008 at 11:23 AM
Nothing that overt. That would only give russia the excuse to send the Iranians top notch military supplies to hit the US with in Iraq.
We are winning in Iraq and unfortunately its still too delicate for us to tip the scales back in the Islamics favor.
However we could get one of our allies to supply the Georgians. France or Germany would do nicely and tickoff the Russians while leaving America in the clear.
William Amos on August 10, 2008 at 11:26 AM
Well, you had me until that sentence.
Spirit of 1776 on August 10, 2008 at 11:27 AM
Former Soviet republics will learn to to fear Russia and to gravitate to the West for protection — as long as we stand firmly for Georgia.
I think they learned that lesson a long time agomaybe they need to RElearn it. And yes, we should support Georgia, but I wish there was some way to get it through Pootie’s thick skull that JIHAD is the enemy.
Tony737 on August 10, 2008 at 11:29 AM
welcome to the real world you whining punk. – mylegs
This isn’t YouTube, please be polite, thanks.
Tony737 on August 10, 2008 at 11:33 AM
Hmmmm… welcome to the site… /sarc
/takes a sip of coffee from his US Navy coffe mug, with his name on it, given to him by the CO of his last ship…
Sometimes I really hate the anonymity of the internet.
Romeo13 on August 10, 2008 at 11:35 AM
Me too.
Zorro on August 10, 2008 at 11:36 AM
This conflict should be a European responsibility, not American. Europe has long been a PETA with regard to looking after their own interests, and this may be be their watershed moment. Act or surrender. Sitting on the sidelines won’t work this time.
OldEnglish on August 10, 2008 at 11:39 AM
America stands, and Applauds small break away nation for standing up for it’s neighbor when it’s neighbors allies will not…
you think Ukraine is game?
Ukranie will crush you…
Kaptain Amerika on August 10, 2008 at 11:40 AM
person with Ironic name makes Ironic statement…
don’t lump easternbloc nations fighting for freedom with Europe… there is no similarity even if they are on the same continent or are you the same type who said Iraq isn’t our business?
Kaptain Amerika on August 10, 2008 at 11:42 AM
WTF! The Russian chargés d’affaires in the US on the phone with Wolf Blitzer said Georgian paras in Tskhinvali were bayoneting civilians and tossing grenades into buildings where civilians were taking cover. The claim went unchallenged by Blitzer. Hopefully when, and if, Blitzer has President Saakashvili on the phone later he will ask Saakashvili to respond to the Russian accusation.
ganeshpuri89 on August 10, 2008 at 11:43 AM
my quote from headlines…
Kaptain Amerika on August 10, 2008 at 11:44 AM
yeah leave it up to the people who supplied Iraq with Nukes and state of the art fighters and surface to air missles… you’re real bright… do you remember WWII? who rolls over and plays dead at the first sign of trouble? ummm that would be the two nations you look to for leadership…
Kaptain Amerika on August 10, 2008 at 11:48 AM
Prior to the Soviet invasion during WWII, most of those countries were European. The term “Eastern bloc” was created after the war, as a political description only.
Also, I am not against American involvement, but you shouldn’t have to be the prime responder in this instance.
OldEnglish on August 10, 2008 at 11:51 AM
Russia is doing to Georgia pretty much the same thing as NATO did to Serbia back in the 90’s over Kosovo. I’m sure the Russians think this is pay back time.
NNtrancer on August 10, 2008 at 11:56 AM
I think the Bush administration made it plain from the outset how they felt about this. I don’t think they followed anyone’s lead.
And other countries in the region, such as Finland have decided to jump on this as well. I am sure that there is a lot going on behind the scenes.
Terrye on August 10, 2008 at 11:56 AM
NNtrancer:
The Russians probably do think this is pay back time, but they went too far. And if they do not cut it out soon, this whole thing could get completely out of hand.
Terrye on August 10, 2008 at 11:58 AM
A direct confrontation with Russia is not in our interests just now. We have and Islamic facist foe to beat and we cant go off fighting a war that will make things worse for us.
Putin wont last forever. We can outlast him like we can out last Castro.
I want to beat Al Qaeda first then we can see whats next.
William Amos on August 10, 2008 at 12:01 PM
shouldn’t have to be, true but if not for us then who? no one else will, I’m not saying we will, we won’t we’ll roll over and let them make their land grab…
as for eastern bloc countries, yes that’s exactly my point. and where did they stay for 50 years? under the Soviet fist, these are all the signs of Russia’s fall back behind an Iron Curtain… back into the persona of nemesis, instead of ally… in 1990 although I was still a child of 16, I saw a future when America and Russia stood shoulder to shoulder against tyranny… oh how naive was I… their foray into freedom was sooo short lived…
Kaptain Amerika on August 10, 2008 at 12:03 PM
CNN International carring live now UN feed of Russian ambassador to UN speaking on the crisis now.
ganeshpuri89 on August 10, 2008 at 12:09 PM
Again, a unified Eastern European response, perhaps even militarily, would be the coup de grace (sp). Having most of the former Bloc countries assisting Georgia would finally make Russia respond to that little cease-fire call. Hopefully, they wouldnt just stop at a cease-fire, but demand the withdrawal of Russian forces or face a unified former Bloc response. Even the Russians wouldnt want to flex their muscles then, or it would drag in the rest of the world. And I believe China, especially with the olympics going on, would be un-willing to throw its support behind Russia, or risk everything they’ve built the past 8 years.
Blacksoda on August 10, 2008 at 12:11 PM
Churkin claims Georgian military forces using training given to it by US in an operation called Immediate Response in its “aggression” on South Ossetian.
Claims Georgian forces using non-precision weapons against Tskhinvali.
ganeshpuri89 on August 10, 2008 at 12:13 PM
thank god the founding fathers of our country didn’t feel this way… we’ll just outlast the king… thank god we didn’t use this approach on hitler… evil has to be confronted where it stands, not wait for it to wither… for as you wait people die, freedom is repressed and the ones you hope to inspire are left with the bitter taste of betrayal in their mouths.
as for Al Qaeda… are we fighting them? are we fighting radical islam? no we’re not… at least not in any full effort. or we would be in Pakistan, hunting. we would be flying over Iran, we would be in Syria, and the list goes on… these are not wars we are in now… these are police actions. war is a totality of effort put towards an ultimate goal. if we stood up when ever freedom was threatened with our full might, those who threatened it would think twice, or would not be around to threaten it.
let me put it more simply… if you’re a farmer with 25 chickens and the wolf comes and takes 1 chicken a night, by the end of the month you have no chickens… and it’s much likely that the wolf will be knocking on your door next, for there are no more chickens to eat. and they’ll be no chickens to stand with you and fight the wolf… ok now I’m just sounding stupid… but you get my point, however strange it may be.
Kaptain Amerika on August 10, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Churkin claims Immediate Response was training exercise Americans conducted inside Georgia for its military.
ganeshpuri89 on August 10, 2008 at 12:16 PM
Was that the mask George W. Bush couldn’t see…?
Or perhaps it was this fine fella…he missunderesitmated?
J_Gocht on August 10, 2008 at 12:16 PM
Grant you that, kap. A lot of us were misled back then. Maybe it was because, after living under M.A.D. for so long, we wanted a new world.
As far as Putin is concerned, he has made no bones about wanting to resurrect the Russian Empire, with him as its first Czar. Last time, Europe were the ones who suffered Russian expansionist wars for around a hundred years. This time, Europe needs to nip it in the bud. or else America will really be on her own.
And then there’s China …
OldEnglish on August 10, 2008 at 12:16 PM
Kaptain
Hitler didn’t have thousands of nukes.
Dr. Manhattan on August 10, 2008 at 12:17 PM
My husband is an Air Force pilot. You are full of shit dude.
Bush is hollering at Putin in China. Ukraine just let them know that the neighbors ain’t happy. Yeah, it’s tragic that Putin is an evil bastard who wants to carpet bomb civilians who annoy him (Chechnya ring a bell?) but don’t go frothing at the mouth that we have to send people like my husband and his friends (who are very busy right at the moment, thanks so much) into harm’s way every time some evil bastard starts killing people.
Unless you want to pay double the income taxes so we can triple or quadruple the size of our military. Because that’s what it would take.
funky chicken on August 10, 2008 at 12:17 PM
While I supported our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, I tend to agree with George Washington’s thought’s on intervention:
We do not need a confrontation with Russia right now as was stated before. I feel George Bush is handling things pretty well right now. I hope with Georgia having a ceasefire, Russia will be persuaded to back off with this war.
becki51758 on August 10, 2008 at 12:20 PM
Ed, do you ever get tired of carrying the water for McCain? I mean Good Lord. I did a search, and guess what? McCain’s statement is on the wires seventeen minutes after Bush’s. His statement was also after the State Department Spokesman said that the United States was backing Georgia, and get this, that was shortly after Bush and Putin met to discuss Georgia.
Yet, he’s following McCain’s lead? Look Ed, if your candidate is any good, you don’t have to do this kind of thing for him. He doesn’t have to walk on Water to be the best candidate, but this kind of cheer leading really diminishes you. I’ll be honest. I used to drop by Captains Quarters about once every three days. Now, I need a Tums to get past one of your posts about how McCain is healing the sick and helping the blind see.
I have some bad news my friend. The sun god McCain did not make the sun rise this morning. The tides did not continue their ages old cycle because McCain waved his hand a certain way.
Snake307 on August 10, 2008 at 12:20 PM
The only reason we have to mess with these tin-horn dictators now is because Russia devoted all of its energy over the last century to cultivating totalitarianisms.
They took a breather for a few years, and we’ve only just begun to clean up the mess. If we let Russia start up again, we’ll still be doing this a hundred years from now.
logis on August 10, 2008 at 12:21 PM
Yeah, that’s why my husband is in Afganistan. Because our military just isn’t doing anything about AlQaida.
You people need to think before you post. The military isn’t a bunch of transformer robots. All these “fabulous” ideas you have would get many thousands of our troops and airmen killed.
Yeah, overflying Iran is a super idea. Try reading something over at Janes about Iran’s air defense system. And invading Pakistan, a country with nukes and a real nasty extremist muslim minority. Great idea.
funky chicken on August 10, 2008 at 12:22 PM
I agree with you on this. We have our hands full with Afghanistan and Iraq. Also, I would not want to see Russia’s response if we got involved…or Iran’s.
becki51758 on August 10, 2008 at 12:26 PM
Yep. American soldiers and trainers in Georgia less than two weeks ago. 1200 of them.
More here.
ganeshpuri89 on August 10, 2008 at 12:30 PM
Wouldn`t that put us at war with Russia?
ThePrez on August 10, 2008 at 12:32 PM
+1.
Spirit of 1776 on August 10, 2008 at 12:34 PM
Uh, thanks for your husbands service, but you need to take a chill pill.
I SERVED during the Cold War. Russia is NOT ready for a full blown confrontation with the West… and will back down in a heartbeat if we proove we are serious. Easiest way to do that would be to put a CAP above Georgian territory (not the break away parts).
Right now they see us, correctly, as distracted. We are involved in two wars, our economy is a mess, we are in HUGE debt, and in the middle of a political cycle, with a very unpopular Congress and President.
If the West, including us, don’t confront them immediatly, then bad behaviour will be rewarded, and the cycle will continue. Its a lesson of history.
Fact is that our Air Force is NOT as overstretched as the Army of Marines right now… they and the Navy are the two forces which can project Power… Navy is moving more carriers into the Gulf currently for the standoff with Iran… and sorry, for you and your husband, but that leaves the Air Force.
Romeo13 on August 10, 2008 at 12:35 PM
“I hope..”
What’s that? Have you forgotten it takes two to dance…!
J_Gocht on August 10, 2008 at 12:37 PM
Georgian President Saakashvili live on Late Edition with Blitzer after the break.
ganeshpuri89 on August 10, 2008 at 12:40 PM
Yeah, duh. Not to mention that we don’t exactly have ANY excess air capacity right now. And those F-15s and A-10s are flown by the fathers (and a few mothers) of kids like mine.
The diplomatic response is going well…Ukraine is on board. Expect to see other former Soviet bloc nations help as well. There is ZERO reason at this point to get into a war with Russia, or to get our military members killed.
Unless you agree with Barry O that we should now get our people killed in Darfur, and in the “Democratic Republic” of the Congo, and, hell, let’s just go ahead and go to war with China by invading North Korea. Kim Jong Il has to be at the very top of the list of sick bastard dictators who really do deserve their dirt nap. Who gives a damn about our military members? Just like the movie says “They Were Expendable.”
I thought the right “supported the troops.”
funky chicken on August 10, 2008 at 12:41 PM
You may be getting your wish. Anybody else read something a huge naval task force headed out Iran way? On the other hand, maybe we saw things turning very evil with George/Russia and thought it’d be good idea to discourage Iran from getting any ideas.
dhimwit on August 10, 2008 at 12:45 PM
Dude, you have not a clue. Sorry. The Air Force has been patrolling the Iraq area for 16 years with no break. The Air Force cut 40,000 active duty troops in FY 2006. The F-15s are crumbling, the 707 based tankers are crumbling, the C-17s are all flying their asses off to the limits of crew stamina and the law.
Russia isn’t Grenada. And Putin don’t give a crap if he causes a bloodbath of millions. But you think we should send our folks in there.
idiot
funky chicken on August 10, 2008 at 12:45 PM
But hey, if you all want to double or triple the size of our military, call your congressmen. Then we really could be America, World Police.
funky chicken on August 10, 2008 at 12:47 PM
Well…. looks like Russia won.
Georgia is withdrawing, and declaring a ceasefire.
As conditions, Russia is going to make them agree to not use force to get the area back… and I’m sure will leave troops in place. “Peace” talks will undoubtably lead to freeing the territory, which will then give itself to Russia (kinda like Texas, when it left Mexico and then joined the US… or thinking on it, California…).
Key? Russia 1, West 0.
Romeo13 on August 10, 2008 at 12:49 PM
John McCain’s lead? As concerns Georgia? Did I miss something? Did McCain suggest having Comprehensive Immigration Reform in Georgia or having a Surge in Georgia?
MB4 on August 10, 2008 at 12:49 PM
Look, you can disagree with what others say, but that`s no excuse for being an jerk.
ThePrez on August 10, 2008 at 12:50 PM
No I didnt..they BOTH need to agree to a ceasefire and BOTH need to stop fighting.
becki51758 on August 10, 2008 at 12:53 PM
+1 to that too.
Spirit of 1776 on August 10, 2008 at 12:54 PM
Me three or whatever it’s up to now.
BTW, that is not a *2*, that is a *Z* for el Zorro!
MB4 on August 10, 2008 at 12:55 PM
Georgian President Saakashvili just told Wolf Blitzer that unexploded ordnance on Russian jet that was shot down bore the script, “This is for America, This is for NATO.”
ganeshpuri89 on August 10, 2008 at 1:02 PM
As I said, take a chill pill. Thats the second personal attack.
Key is that unless the West did somthing to help Georgia, which is a VERY small country in relation to Russia… it was going to loose… and it did. The ONLY way we could intervene in that short of a period of time was to stage Air Power from outside the zone of combat. As there were already CAP type planes in Europe, it was the ONLY way we could intervene in the timeframe necessary to change the outcome. We CONSTANTLY played tag with the Soviets, all over the world, during the Cold War…
Problem would have been getting permission from the countrys we were going to stage Air out of…
But the fact is that its all moot now… Georgia caved because we did not support them with anything but words…
Russia 1, West 0
Romeo13 on August 10, 2008 at 1:02 PM
If Georgia isn’t a full ally deserving of our defense, who is? Is Old-NATO worthy of defense? What about New-NATO? How about South Korea? How about Iraq? How will the Iraqis feel about our committment to their security when they see Georgia bombed back to the stone age?
BohicaTwentyTwo on August 10, 2008 at 1:02 PM
Yeah, I posted the same above. I don’t understand why the McCainiacs like Captain Ed need to act like everything is their candidates idea. I mean, really it’s not just kind of silly, it’s insulting.
I almost dread the approaching election. I wonder how long McCain has to poll below fifty percent before we start hearing how McCain single handedly rescued a bus load of school children who were taken hostage by the crazed lunatic waving a pistol around ala Dirty Harry?
As I said above, the sun god McCain did not make the sun rise.
Snake307 on August 10, 2008 at 1:03 PM
Not only is it insulting to the reader (which I don’t think Ed at all intends, seems like a nice guy) but it’s insulting to the administration. That irritates me. To prop up McCain, let’s throw the Bush administration under the bus?! What is this, the Obama campaign?
Spirit of 1776 on August 10, 2008 at 1:07 PM
Jesus H. Christ, you don’t sign up for the AF to sit back and watch the world fall from underneath your boots. You’re expected to deploy, and expected to do your job.
If you’re wondering why the Army and the Marines hate the AF, this is exactly why. This mentality has to go. Who do you think the Army and Marines are made up of? Bunch of childless orphans?
Jumper and Mosley have laid out their vision, and the AF will follow into the fire under the incoming Schwartz. We’ll do it because it is not the easy thing to do, but because it is the hard thing to do, but always the right thing.
TheEJS on August 10, 2008 at 1:11 PM
Georgian Ambassador to UN speaking live now on CNN International. Hitting Russians hard. Accusing Russians of wanting to erase Georgian statehood. Compares Russian incursion into Georgia and attacks on Tblisi to Soviet aggression against Prague, Budapest.
ganeshpuri89 on August 10, 2008 at 1:12 PM
Profound cognitive dissonance in that reply, not to mention rather bad manners for a Sunday morning.
MB4 on August 10, 2008 at 1:13 PM
I’m not sure Ed considered that McCain can make public statements because, well because they don’t mean much since he’s a candidate for and not POTUS. When Bush makes a public statement it’s policy. As has been frequently pointed out we have no idea what’s going on back channel and neither does McCain. Although as a sitting Senator he probably has a much better idea than any of us.
Oldnuke on August 10, 2008 at 1:15 PM
“THIS IS FOR AMERICA, THIS IS FOR NATO”
–Georgian President Saakashvilli to CNN’s Wolf Blitzer describing writing found on unexploded ordnance from Russian jet shot down by Georgian air-defense.
ganeshpuri89 on August 10, 2008 at 1:20 PM
I pointed out above, McCain’s statement followed the State Departments announcement that the US denounced the activity, and had already sent a delegate to talk to the belligerents.
Yet it was McCain’s idea. Fine, he can put the State Department into action. Does that mean that Captain Ed thinks that there is a Shadow Government which is really running the nation which is headed by John McCain?
After a while of reading stuff like this, you are left with a few options. Either Captain Ed is a shameless cheerleader for McCain trying to give a candidate credit for saving the world. Or Captain Ed is a nutroots lunatic who believes in a grand conspiracy theory with McCain at the head.
Snake307 on August 10, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Think about it: who has either of those candidates NOT shown a willingness to trample on when it became convenient?
The Roman emperors thought of themselves as gods. Basically, we have a choice between Caligula or Nero.
logis on August 10, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Yeah, plus the whole time of this event, Bush has been over there able to talk face to face with Putin. I just hope McCain called Bush up and suggested it! (I kid)
Spirit of 1776 on August 10, 2008 at 1:26 PM
The Bush administration’s first response was a weak, “everyone needs to settle down” statement. Only afterwards did they call out the Russians for their aggression:
The next day, they found their stones:
Sorry, but the first response was weak-kneed and unhelpful. The second response should have been the first, and McCain didn’t make that mistake.
The Bush administration has been relentlessly foolish on Russia from the beginning. That’s not me carrying water for McCain; it’s a fact, and it’s helped lead to this.
Ed Morrissey on August 10, 2008 at 1:30 PM
Could also have been that the intelligence loop takes time.
Real Operators have to figure out whats going on through satellite and HUMINT, then it goes up the chain to Profesional Analysts, then it gets to the Political types… who usualy don’t know what to do with it… it takes time to get the info loops set up and running to get timely information to the situation room…
/sarc on… sort of…
And then of course Bush had to go ask his Masters over at the Federal Reserve Board what to do about it…
Romeo13 on August 10, 2008 at 1:36 PM
Here is what the President said in part.
Note the key words “we’ve been in contact” – this past tense. Also note bolded parts to give context of that contact.
As for Ms. Perino, I don’t know what you expect the PressSec to say before the President himself holds the conference. It usually goes something like, “I leave that for the President to speak on later.” It’s the pattern.
As far the timing, this refers to the 8th :
Please explain what this is directed toward. Beginning of this war? Beginning of this administration?
Spirit of 1776 on August 10, 2008 at 1:39 PM
For crying out loud, one of Condi’s specialties is Cold-War Russia.
Spirit of 1776 on August 10, 2008 at 1:41 PM
Leftist dorks Mia Farrow and George Clooney were actually correct when they said that it would be “easy” to send Air Force support to the Darfurians, at least in terms of the sophistication of the Sudanese military. The Janjaweed were a bunch of machete and small arms weilding terrorists on horseback, and even Khartoum doesn’t have that much in the way of conventional military power.
But the contention that it would be “easy” for our AF pilots to take on Russia in some gallant gesture over Georgia?
Sorry, but completely stupid. It’s really sad to see folks supposedly on the right be dumber about the military and what it can do that George Clooney and Mia Farrow.
funky chicken on August 10, 2008 at 1:41 PM
You gotta admit that Ed has a very good point here.
I knew Bush had been bamboozled when he said that he’d looked into Putin’s eyes and seen his soul. For me that cast huge shadows of doubt on his judgment of people.
Oldnuke on August 10, 2008 at 1:43 PM
Negroponte was sent over to State to clean up Condi’s mess.
Negroponte is the real deal…his statement carries weight.
funky chicken on August 10, 2008 at 1:44 PM
About the time he told us that he looked into Putin’s eyes and saw the soul of a man with whom he could work, yes. How’s that working out in Georgia today, on Iran, Iraq, Darfur, etc etc etc?
Yeah, and she got it right. Georgia didn’t need to “show restraint” after getting shelled by Russian-backed separatists — the Russians needed to stop provoking war. Bush did the same thing Obama did, equating Georgia with Russia in demanding “restraint” from Tbilisi.
Ed Morrissey on August 10, 2008 at 1:46 PM
Your husband is an Air Force pilot so therefor Romeo13 is full of $hit? Somehow I don’t quite follow the conection there.
Bush is hollering at his Pooty Poot? Wow! I’ll bet Pooty Poot is scared now.
Odd as I do not observe that it is Romeo13 who is the one who is “frothing at the mouth”.
Well the U.S. Army and the U.S. Marines have been doing the vast majority of the bleeding for a very long time and the pay is basically the same, so I don’t see why the Air Force should be so protected.
MB4 on August 10, 2008 at 1:47 PM
No offense, Oldnuke, but I think you bit off exactly what the media wanted you to. The 2nd half of this quote is so so rarely reported “I was able to get a sense of his soul: a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country.” He goes on to say that Putin is a man he could work with.
Where was Bush wrong? Clearly Putin thinks Russia 1st. All of his actions are nationalistic. Which is EXACTLY what Bush said. And he did work with him, Bolton’s book goes through point for point if you want a play by play.
The media, and sadly even rtwingblogs, have taken up the quote out of context to cast Bush as someone whose eyes Putin pulled the wool over. I categorically reject that spin.
Spirit of 1776 on August 10, 2008 at 1:48 PM
The obligatory Russia alleges Americans fighting alongside Georgians in South Ossetia comment.
ganeshpuri89 on August 10, 2008 at 1:51 PM
Bush came into office woefully inexperienced, and it showed for years. He’s done well the last year or so.
It’s the best argument against Obama to use with moderate folks….most of whom think Bush screwed a bunch of stuff up. Can we really afford to elect another president who isn’t ready for the job?
funky chicken on August 10, 2008 at 1:53 PM
Ed that is wholly irrelevant unless you have an alternative outcome/reality to present in which the President did or said something differently. The presumption that Russia would have acted differently if the President said something different seems unsupportable, unless you reject the national sovereignty of the Russian state.
Spirit of 1776 on August 10, 2008 at 1:54 PM
To the Ukraine, I say: HOOAH!
Virus-X on August 10, 2008 at 1:54 PM
Yeah, it’s because he brought in all those unseasoned veterans to surround him with such bad advice: Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice. /SARC
Spirit of 1776 on August 10, 2008 at 1:55 PM
yeah, uh, that’s rational.
I guess it’s no surprise that MB4 agrees with ya. I had thought the conservative/libertarian folks would think sending our military into a shooting war with Russia would be a bad idea, but hey, if it’s just the Air Force ….
right fellas, brilliant.
funky chicken on August 10, 2008 at 1:56 PM
Is this correct? If Pakistan goes to hell then the only way to resupply the NATO Forces in Afghanistan is through Russian territory? So just as Europe won’t and can’t do anything because they depend on the Russian gas pipelines, we can’t do much either because we might need Russia’s good will at any time.
dhimwit on August 10, 2008 at 1:57 PM
By Bush you mean Perino? Again, I think it’s worth looking at what Negroponte said.
Spirit of 1776 on August 10, 2008 at 1:58 PM
The campaign road is long
With many a winding turn
That leads us to who knows where
Who knows when
But I’m fuerte
Fuerte enough to carry him
He ain’t pesado, he’s mi hermano
MB4 on August 10, 2008 at 2:00 PM
Rumsfeld gave very bad advice in the post Iraq and Afganistan war world. He was completely committed to his Transformation of the Military concept. Sadly, his transformation was against conventional forces and toward Spec Ops and small strike forces.
Actually it was a good idea, but he chose to pursue it at the expense of conventional forces at the same time those conventional forces were fighting.
It would have cost more money to fund conventional forces at the level they needed and deserved while doing the transformation stuff, but after 9/11 Bush had the political capital to do it.
It’s one of many places where his inexperience showed itself. Instead of standing up to his own party’s leadership to get sufficient funding for the military, he got rolled by Trent Lott, Ted Stevens, and the rest of the bunch over and over again in the form of porkfest “transportation” and “agriculture” bills.
It took the loss of congress in 2006 to get him to fight them.
funky chicken on August 10, 2008 at 2:00 PM
Read Negroponte’s bio. Like I said, he’s the real deal.
Rice? pffft
funky chicken on August 10, 2008 at 2:02 PM
Pero, por otro lado.
MB4 on August 10, 2008 at 2:03 PM
I think Putin saw weakness in Bush and is taking advantage of it. Putin percieves that Bush is under pressure from a lot of places and would probably be reluctant to engage in another military action. It was a chance but one with little consequence for Putin if it failed and huge reward if it succeeded.
None taken, but I didn’t bite off anything and I didn’t miss the last part of the quote. The only way you can work with Putin is from a position of strength. The whole thing just convinced me that Putin snookered Bush. I’m still of that opinion and I think Bush is viewed as a weakened and ineffective adversary who won’t do anything but talk.
Oldnuke on August 10, 2008 at 2:04 PM
I believe that we are airlifting home Georgian troops from Iraq. Our presence in Georgia could take on a greater role if we have transports running missions. Much like Berlin, if the Russians want to play games with our Air Force, that’s a different game from shelling Georgian troops and civilians.
Maybe we should play Russia’s game and give the Georgians American passports?
Hening on August 10, 2008 at 2:05 PM
This is John McCain on the 8th.
This is Secretary Rice, on the 8th.
(Note the “have spoken” – ie already in action)
On the 8th.
I can keep going. I’m stopping here for space. Look, the best that can be said is that McCain is right on the issue at the right time. Leading the administration, er not so much.
Spirit of 1776 on August 10, 2008 at 2:06 PM
Yah we know that can’t be true because the sun, earth and tides are at least a few decades older than McCain.
MB4 on August 10, 2008 at 2:06 PM
Actualy, I didn’t make my point quite right…
The Media now expects INSTANT decision making from our politicians. Because of the speed of information flow worldwide, we expect them to be knowlegable about things that just happened moments ago… we’ve lost the idea that finding out what really happend takes time, and making a decision prematurely can be a horrible mistake.
Face it, I think everyone (except Russia) was suprised by what happened… I mean they had to have movement orders prep’d, supplies stockpiled, and a warning order out because they were able to move a couple of Brigades within about 24 hours of Georgia trying to retake that area… they were ready… and we, as usual, were caught with poor intelligence… it took us awhile to catch up on both the intelligence cycle, and figure out what to do about it… and I think some of the early statements reflect that…
We really need to relearn the idea that “No Comment” is sometimes the BEST answer.
Romeo13 on August 10, 2008 at 2:07 PM
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