Russians bomb Georgian city
posted at 11:40 am on August 9, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Wouldn’t this constitute a war crime, if deliberate? The Russians dropped bombs on the city of Gori today, killing civilians, while announcing that they had taken the capital of South Ossetia back from Georgia. Meanwhile, the US struggles to find a response that will contain the aggression and hostilities, but Georgia has war on its mind:
Russian air attacks over northern Georgia intensified on Saturday morning, striking two apartment buildings in the city of Gori and clogging roads out of the area with fleeing refugees.
Russian authorities said their forces had retaken the South Ossetian capital, Tskhinvali, from Georgian control during the morning hours. They reported that 15 Russian peacekeepers and 1,500 civilians have been killed in the conflict.
Georgian forces shot down 10 Russian combat planes over the last two days, according to Alexander Lomaya, secretary of the Georgian National Security Council.
Shota Utiashvili, an official at the Georgian Interior Ministry, called the attack on Gori a “major escalation,” and said he expected attacks to increase over the course of Saturday. He said some 16 Russian planes were in the air over Georgian territory at any given time on Saturday, four times the number of sorties seen Friday.
The US received howls of criticism for its targeted strikes on insurgents who deliberately hid among civilians in Iraq and in Afghanistan. Even Barack Obama criticized American tactics in the latter, saying that all we were doing was “air raiding villages and killing civilians”. Israel got the same criticism during its war with Hezbollah, which also hid among civilians.
So when will we hear criticism from Obama, MoveOn, and the rest of the critics over these tactics by Russia? Georgia is fielding a uniformed army, clearly identifiable and operating under command of the state. Why does Russia need to bomb civilian centers under these conditions?
The US, meanwhile, has tried talking with both sides, but unsurprisingly have not gotten far with either. Georgia claims that Russia started the war by supporting the separatist attacks and then escalated with their own attacks on Georgia proper; Russia claims that they are only fulfilling their role as peacekeepers and would stop if Georgia withdraws from South Ossetia. The Russians claim that the US got taken aback by Georgia’s actions, praising our efforts to defuse the crisis but noting that those efforts proved fruitless.
We need to get both sides to stop fighting long enough to come back to the table. Clearly, the Russian involvement in South Ossetia and Abkhazia has proven too much of a provocation for peace to return in the long term. John McCain’s idea of a foreign force might be a better plan, if we can negotiate that with Russia and Georgia. However, with our support of Kosovo’s independence, we had better be prepared for Russian support of independence for these two states, a complication I warned about in March. We set the precedent, and the Russians followed suit.
Update: Here’s the video of Obama ripping American tactics in Afghanistan:
I await with bated breath his swift and merciless condemnation of Russian tactics.
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http://www.hrw.org/
Georgia/Russia: Do Not Attack Civilians in South Ossetia
At least it’s at the top.
WisCon on August 9, 2008 at 8:59 PM
Oh. It’s an absolute ban. Thank G-d. Otherwise we’d all be in real trouble.
Does Human Rights Watch have sandboxes in their offices, or do their employees have to go home to play?
progressoverpeace on August 9, 2008 at 9:12 PM
But, was it an order.
Johan Klaus on August 9, 2008 at 9:17 PM
powerlineblog has a roundup of updated events in Georgia that indicates that the Bear’s propaganda machine is at work. (Did you know that this is all of the US’s fault?) Russia must be placing its bets on a BarryO win because Obama is spouting the party line re events in the Caucasus.
onlineanalyst on August 9, 2008 at 9:19 PM
There are more people whining and carping about the Olympics in China, and Blaming Bush for it —
—that there are talking about this REAL and PRESENT violation of human rights…….the Mainstream Terrorist Media will put The Blackout on this story, and the Wingnut Right-Will “independent” press will help them.
grtflmark on August 9, 2008 at 9:25 PM
The US has a MORAL and strategic obligation with our ally Georgia. I’d give it a few more days and then the shit is going to really hit the fan.
This Russian move is a direct assault on US Eastern European grand strategy. This is the southern flank of NATO. And the timing is not a coincidence.
The US needs to retaliate immediately:
we need to convene the UNSC and let the Russian veto discredit the effort to stop them with that august body which would allow us to act unilaterally;
to 1) expel Russia from the G8 2) grant Georgia immediate provisional membership in the feckless NATO. 3) move US Naval assets into the Eastern Black sea to provide air cover over the Georgian coast and Tblisi. 4) finalize our plans to put the squeeze on the Russian client state Iran (which probably includes an Israeli/American military strike on the overt nuke infrastructure.)
elduende on August 9, 2008 at 9:36 PM
Drew has a good compare contrast post about the two presidential candidates reactions to this conflict over at
Ace of Spades.
The summary: Obama is clueless again and tries to cover it up with meaningless platitudes about the way things would be if everyone would just be nice to each other.
forest on August 9, 2008 at 9:45 PM
More like the B.S.
Do you really think Bush will do anything to upset his pal, The Poot?
Nope. Condoleeza and the Staties have laid down the party line: view both sides with alarm, and “threaten” them with weasel-worded empty protests.
MrScribbler on August 9, 2008 at 10:04 PM
I don’t know if anyone’s linked this yet, but I didn’t see it in Headlines.
The “Pootie Poo” poop is getting deep.
Pretty good pics here.
hillbillyjim on August 9, 2008 at 10:16 PM
(Also via BBC) The numbers don’t look good for the Georgians”
hillbillyjim on August 9, 2008 at 10:19 PM
You have it right, elduende, but it would take a John Bolton as the Secretary of State for it to happen.
Phil Byler on August 9, 2008 at 10:20 PM
MrScribbler on August 9, 2008 at 10:04 PM
We’ll see you’d better hope you are wrong because the alternative means our country will be on strategic retreat signaling a very dangerous and dark time for this planet.
Voluntary American retrenchment has happened once before in the last 40 years thanks to our treasonous Left and its results were not pretty.
elduende on August 9, 2008 at 10:21 PM
Maybe algore can ride over on his party barge and tell ‘em all to cut it out and quit blowing shit up; it might put more CO2 in the atmosphere, after all.
hillbillyjim on August 9, 2008 at 10:25 PM
Phil Byler on August 9, 2008 at 10:20 PM
I wish we had Bolton even if it was only back at the UN.
elduende on August 9, 2008 at 10:28 PM
Yeah, the ‘Stache will tell it like it is. He was wasted at the U.N., though. Sec. of State would be nice, or POTUS…..
….A fella can dream, can’t he??
hillbillyjim on August 9, 2008 at 10:31 PM
Rushbaby, I touched on this earlier, did you not see the post?
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 10:31 PM
Your memory is now undergoing profound deterioration too. You had no doubt that I had succeed.
As to my being a “malcontent”, anyone who is contented with the current political situation simply isn’t paying attention.
I am not frustrated. Why would being the main character in your imaginary world be frustrating to me. I am not your HMO.
And so now you are imagining, with probably no small amount of projection involved, that I have an “inflatable friend”. Anthony Fremont is real, rather than science fiction and now I have an “inflatable friend” (rather grade school level “insult”, btw).
You are going far down hill with multiple brain center collapse. You need to contact your health insurance provider STAT. If you do not have one then I would kindly suggest that you try to pass yourself off as one of Juan’s God’s children illegal aliens at an emergency hospital.
You may hate me now but you will thank me latter, if by some chance you recover anyway. I’m looking out for you.
MB4 on August 9, 2008 at 10:33 PM
You are still a arrogant troll. Who else’s name do you feel the need to post today?
This is MB4’s blog… so why don’t you get back on topic or leave.
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 10:35 PM
Meant no slight to you! I have been scouring my favourite sites for information all day. Forgive me for my oversight.
RushBaby on August 9, 2008 at 10:35 PM
I thought it’s been clear that we’ve been in a strategic retreat for years. Iran has certainly done its best to shine a nice, bright light on that.
Now we can all just wait until Russia announces that it’s going to be storing a few nukes in Cuba … just for kicks. They don’t think we can even acknowledge a situation like the Cold War again, where we threatened total annihilation. We’ve outlawed it, so …
progressoverpeace on August 9, 2008 at 10:36 PM
Wow. MB4 is ….Bill O’Reilly??? OMG!!!
hillbillyjim on August 9, 2008 at 10:37 PM
test
sinsing on August 9, 2008 at 10:37 PM
No worries Rush. This is something I have been keeping an eye on since I first heard about Putin and the Oil Companies owned by the Russians in Russia. It was interesing to watch the government bankrupt and take over everything that didn’t agree with them. Then reading about them plugging good wells of all sorts. Putin is planning something. But WTF it is could only be 3 things… and Iran is just a play thing.
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 10:41 PM
Sorry ’bout that, Em Before, but I couldn’t resist.
:-)
hillbillyjim on August 9, 2008 at 10:41 PM
If we are in retreat…. then why stratigically place missiles in Alaska, Poland, Back in Germany and a few other countries?
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 10:42 PM
I thought that “wise_man” had replaced AP and Ed as Hotair moderator and Michelle as Hotair owner. So what has happened now in my absence? You appear to have taken over from “wise_man” as blog moderator and owner. Why am I always the last to know.
MB4 on August 9, 2008 at 10:49 PM
Good points. Half of Congress wishes us to be in retreat; I don’t call shipping an army to Iraq and settling in a retreat.
I don’t believe things are as grim as p over p indicates.
hillbillyjim on August 9, 2008 at 10:50 PM
Are you talking about missile defense? I don’t see that as a strategic advance. If you’re talking about some offensive missiles, let me know. But, in any event, at the same time we’ve been handing more and more of our strategic decision-making over to the UN AND conditioning the American public to believe that “that’s the way it is and that’s the way it should be”. I think this part is particularly dangerous, for everyone.
I’ve been seeing retreat on most fronts. That’s been my impression, at least. It would have been far worse if Bush hadn’t been POTUS, but his second term has been a near total collapse in foreign policy, from my view.
progressoverpeace on August 9, 2008 at 10:50 PM
I hope you’re right.
progressoverpeace on August 9, 2008 at 10:50 PM
Oh, that reminds me. Do you remember when you pissed in the ocean a few weeks ago now and I complained to you that I had gone swimming in the ocean at about that same time and got a rash and talked like a Hillbilly for almost a week? Well I am over all that now but I still kind of get the hots for one of my cousins. Do you have any idea how long that will last?
MB4 on August 9, 2008 at 10:53 PM
I do too, man.
hillbillyjim on August 9, 2008 at 10:53 PM
Rush something else to ponder.
Why is Russia, when Putin was the president, try to take over the area under the ice fields around the North Pole? This has more to do with geography, Natural Resources and a few other odds and ends then people realize.
Russia see being a super power as having land and the resources to keep it rich. People be damned, if you see it the way a Russian aristrocrat does. Russia has been like that for over 100 yrs, and I haven’t seen it change much except for the poorer people who have seen how the U.S. can be. It is the poorer people who want what the U.S. has, not the higher ups. You can’t control a people if they have a dream… if you know what I mean.
Also, Georgia and the other splinters of what once Russia are doing the European American dream. They aren’t stupid, and that is another blow to Mother Russia then most realize. It is going to get worse then better, trust me on that.
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 10:54 PM
It’s all according to how hot she is. If she looks like cuzzin Ellie May, well, strap yourself in.
hillbillyjim on August 9, 2008 at 10:56 PM
Alaska has a very advanced missle defense that was put in about 4 yrs ago now. It is at Ft Greely and is very much a very strategic area. Close to Russia, China, Korea and can go over the North Pole in a few hours.
Poland has accepted a couple missile bases for the U.S. and they are looking forward to it as an infrastructure they sorely need… American money there will rebuild a lot of items and Americans building real roads will also help. Do you think that Poland will say no? I highly doubt it. They are the closets to Russia.
I don’t have to tell you about geographic details, I think you can figure it out for yourself.
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 10:58 PM
progressoverpeace on August 9, 2008 at 10:36 PM
No. I don’t think you appreciate what a strategic retrenchment looks like. We’re being challenged strategically across a broad spectrum but that’s not the same as a retreat. Elect obama and you’ll see what a retreat really is.
I’ll grant you this much… our rivals around the world sense the decadence of our Left and weakness it manifests. That’s why bin Laden attacked us… he didn’t think we had it in us to counterattack and to stomach a fight. we have and succeeded. we hit them hard in the last place they expected, the heart of Dar al Harb.
The Iranians have shined a light all right. their proxies in Iraq have been defeated and they have done something i never thought was possible they put the Israelis and the Arabs on the same page. The Iranians are geopolitically surrounded the only cards they hold are the terror card and the nebulous possiblity of acquiring nukes.
As for the Russians they’ve been provoking us and we’ve been ignoring them. I don’t know where you live but I live in South Florida and the issue of Cuba is more visible down here. The entire Eastern Seaboard is under constant harrasment by flights of Russina Bear bombers now.
The Russians already announced they would be landing their Bears in Cuba and basing them there as their latest provocation. Venezuela has asked them to base there.
elduende on August 9, 2008 at 10:58 PM
Was that Obongo the Clown’s Murtha moment?
Claypigeon on August 9, 2008 at 10:59 PM
The first time you say my name on this blog, I will raise holy hell and go jihad on your arrogant ass.
Since you find it fitting to put others names on here… it really doesn’t matter who it is or if they are liberal or not… you are just as bad as that troll alphie.
If you do not like it, I guess you better suck it up there MB4.
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 11:00 PM
Right, but are you talking about offensive missiles or missile defense? I thought that deal was for a missile defense screen. Am I confusing something?
progressoverpeace on August 9, 2008 at 11:00 PM
suppose to be 2 POW russian pilots on Georgian TV
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=42f_1218302204
no translation yet so I have no idea whats being said.
warren on August 9, 2008 at 11:02 PM
I know the feeling, the Russian air force constantly try to fly into American airspace here.
What you might want to know is where the missiles are around your area. I do not know of any in Florida… Meyers is about the only place I can think of.
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 11:03 PM
Greely is missile defense. Kodiak Island has the missile offense. It is small but they work.
Also Hawaii has many of the offensive missiles they have been testing out. Alaska has the larger defensive missles due to more land mass.
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 11:05 PM
I can go with that. Just with an added touch of pessimism.
progressoverpeace on August 9, 2008 at 11:06 PM
Oh stop whining so much. You sound like a petulant child.
MB4 on August 9, 2008 at 11:09 PM
It’s just that I don’t consider offensive missiles placed within the US to be advances. I understand that the larger footprint does convey some feeling of advance, but I put that in a different class of action. My thing is that I don’t the actions of our adversaries have signaled that they think we’re in a strategic advance. That’s kind of how I’m looking at it.
progressoverpeace on August 9, 2008 at 11:11 PM
I know you said your boyfriend has the flu or something, but damn, girl, you sure are trigger-happy today. Remember your tantrum earlier with someone who was basically trying to agree with your point that int’l law is meaningless in the real world? Take a sip of bourbon or something, please.
hillbillyjim on August 9, 2008 at 11:12 PM
Er … I meant:
My thing is that I don’t think that the actions of our adversaries have signaled that they think we’re in a strategic advance.
progressoverpeace on August 9, 2008 at 11:12 PM
I do hope I’m wrong!
But Bush hasn’t done a thing to curb the Russians’ ambitions or their threats. He thinks Putin is his great friend, and he’s good to his friends. I sometimes wonder if anything would have happened in Iraq if Saddam had come to Crawford before Sept. 11, 2001 for the ol’ grip & grin.
If the American people wise up in November, maybe we won’t have an incompetent clown who believes in the diplomatic ideals of Jimmy Carter minus Carter’s intellectual substance.
The only solution to the growing weakness of the USA is to elect McCain. Despite his flaws in other areas, I have no doubt that he’ll stand up to international bullies.
MrScribbler on August 9, 2008 at 11:15 PM
Yeah I am taking care of him now. He is being the stubborn Marine he can be.
I didn’t disagree witht hat person. But lets face it, if you are in a war… laws don’t apply usually.
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 11:18 PM
G. Kahn was known to take land and women …. what makes this any different?
Protecting ones self isn’t a bad thing.
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 11:19 PM
progressoverpeace on August 9, 2008 at 11:06 PM
indeed brother but keep the faith.
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 11:03 PM
the Bear harrassment flights apparently started a few months ago but most people in the US are not even aware of.
I don’t think the nukes are in Cuba yet but the Russians said in the last few weeks they wanted to put them there to wit we formally protested diplomatically if memory serves.
we’ll see what happens but there are things going on right now that the overwhelming majority of people in this country are unaware of.
elduende on August 9, 2008 at 11:22 PM
it’s 3am
TheCulturalist on August 9, 2008 at 11:25 PM
Thanks for the links. The one of the Russian WiA is interesting in terms of his location. Dzhava is near the Russian border, a good deal distance from what Georgia claimed it controlled in Ossetia prior to operations. It’s possible Georgians have created a salient of Russians leading down from Roki to Java to Tskhinvali. If true, combined with information about 40 Russian “tanks” (probably APCs the majority), the 58th Combined Arms Army is in for a heckuva fight.
TheEJS on August 9, 2008 at 11:27 PM
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 11:03 PM
I’m sorry I forgot to say you guys over there are in ground zero for these Bear Harrasment flights. I even heard they are going to or have started using Blackjacks to probe. That’s something I don’t think happened even at the height of the cold war.
BTW Blackjacks look like our B-1Bs and are supersonic as well.
elduende on August 9, 2008 at 11:28 PM
Sorry. You lost me on this one.
For sure. Beefing up offense certainly means something. We just have a semantical disagreement. And, clearly the Russians raised a stink with the missiles in Europe - no matter that they were defensive - so those missiles might have conveyed more of a message along your lines than mine. I admit that I was surprised by Russia’s reaction. I just see much more moving in the opposite direction, and at more critical points.
As an aside: I wonder how long it will take before the word ‘brinksmanship’ starts becoming popular again. I think that kids today have never even heard it.
progressoverpeace on August 9, 2008 at 11:30 PM
I wouldn’t doubt if they were already there.
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 11:30 PM
it’s 3am
TheCulturalist on August 9, 2008 at 11:25 PM
yep. sadly it really is and has been for many moons and most people don’t even know it. That’s why i know obambi will never be ready for what awaits in the darkness…
elduende on August 9, 2008 at 11:31 PM
BTW does anyone know the tank strength of the 58th CAA? I looked up the Russian military OOBs, and while there is no information about strength, it’s interesting that the core is between the 19th Motor Rifles Division and the 74th Motorized Rifle Brigade (which I’m willing to wager was the unit that first crossed into Ossetia).
TheEJS on August 9, 2008 at 11:32 PM
I wouldn’t doubt if they were already there.
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 11:30 PM
I hope not. I think maybe we would have known it though if only by the buffoonery of Chavez. He would have been the first to tout the victory. Last week he said he would welcome the bombers in Venezuela so he may be giving the Russians a way to avoid a direct confrontation with us but still keep the bombers in the region.
elduende on August 9, 2008 at 11:36 PM
Ok I give up… I am the yuonger generation. What does it mean? The BF is even clueless and he is in mid 40’s.
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 11:36 PM
Chavez is an idiot and Putin knows it. You don’t think he wouldn’t think twice about taking that area…
I wish the Media would start showing this stuff instead of the Edward’s crap.
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 11:41 PM
Takin’ it to the raggedy assed edge! It’s what Kennedy and Khrushchev did in ‘62 over missiles in Cuba. I remember it vividly. It’s not something I want to see again.
Oldnuke on August 9, 2008 at 11:44 PM
MrScribbler on August 9, 2008 at 11:15 PM
I agree with you brother. I don’t exactly know what Bush is thinking with regards to Putin. I used to have my suspicions that there was a lot more at work behind the scenes than met the eye but i don’t know anymore. I used to think there was an agreed good cop bad cop routine going on geopolitically to keep Europe in check but like i said i don’t know.
Although I wish we had a Reagan, McCain is the only grown up we have capable of playing this dark game with American interests at heart.
elduende on August 9, 2008 at 11:45 PM
The fact that Georgia now constitutes NATO’s southern flank is precisely the problem. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization was designed to defend Western Europe from Soviet aggression. It largely succeeded. After the fall of the Soviet Union the NATO organization began experiencing mission creep. It violated its own charter by waging an offensive war against Serbia and has been ceaselessly expanding ever since. The Russians view these actions as a provocation. They are about as happy about the prospect of the Ukraine and Georgia recieving full NATO membership as the U.S. would be about Russian bombers in Cuba and Venezuela.
Furthermore, other than Great Britain and maybe Canada, NATO would be useless in a shooting war. They certainly haven’t been good for much in Afghanistan. The U.S. would shoulder the brunt of the cost and the casualties in any Russian confrontation. People giddy about granting Georgia NATO membership might want to keep this in mind.
Plus a U.S.-Russian confrontation might spiral out of control and lead to that nuclear war thing. That would definitely not be good for Michelle Obama’s kids.
Mike Honcho on August 9, 2008 at 11:45 PM
AH HA! Yeah I am very much like that. I guess that will become a popular word again. I wonder what the liberal term for that day was.
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 11:46 PM
As a footnote to my last post “Think Defcon 2″. I’ll bet your ex marine B/F will know what that means, even if he’s still a youngster in his 40’s :-)
Oldnuke on August 9, 2008 at 11:46 PM
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 11:41 PM
LOL! I think you are right. I think Putin knows that Chavez is a cretin and a loose canon and when it comes to poking a sleeping dragon like the US with a nuclear stick its best not to give Chavez too much rope with which to hang himself.
elduende on August 9, 2008 at 11:49 PM
hillbillyjim on August 9, 2008 at 11:50 PM
I actually LOL.. I shouldn’t have but who gives a crap about the “O”’s kids. Not I!
upinak on August 9, 2008 at 11:51 PM
Think
high-stakesnuclear poker.hillbillyjim on August 9, 2008 at 11:52 PM
Nah, you were right the first time. About as high a stake as you can get.
Oldnuke on August 9, 2008 at 11:58 PM
Too damn high, but here we are. Again.
No good solutions; our only option IMO is to stay strong and vigilant, and by NO MEANS cave on the defensive missile issue.
Pootie Poo is definitely not to be trusted.
hillbillyjim on August 10, 2008 at 12:02 AM
How many billions will Russia be able to make if oil spikes up Monday?
One billion for each dead civilian?
TheCulturalist on August 10, 2008 at 12:05 AM
He and I actually laughed at that one. I am the youngster.. told him he was robbing the cradle. But hey age doesn’t bother me.
He knows about quite a bit of the areas we are talkiing about. But right now he is to sick to stay up more then 15 muntes at a time and I am getting tired as well.
upinak on August 10, 2008 at 12:07 AM
What I’ve gleaned/distilled from my reading today:
Georgia is pivotal in the global energy market not for its resources but because of transportation of oil from the Caspian & central Asia that avoids both Russia and Iran.
The THREE BILLION dollar BTC pipeline (1,100 miles, most buried to make sabotage more difficult) pumps up to 1 million barrels/day that is loaded on to supertankers for delivery to Europe and the U.S. Miles of the route passes through Georgia. Part of the pipeline was recently destroyed by rebels in Turkey and the port was targeted by the Russians. Who knows how long deliveries will be on hold now while fires are put out and damage repaired. This pipeline is key to us because it reduces our reliance on oil from the Middle East & Russia.
What’s at stake:
Russia wants a monopoly of oil exported through what it views as its own territory.
We got warned.
This is naked retaliation for NATO’s “overstepping its mandate in Kosovo”.
• Russia’s envoy to NATO warned the alliance said Moscow might be forced to use “brute military force” to maintain respect on the world scene.
• “The attempt to push Georgia into NATO is a provocation that could lead to bloodshed.” - Dmitry Rogozin
• Putin himself warned bout the consequences of recognizing Kosovo’s independence, saying it would “come back to knock them on the head.”
Russians would like to teach a lesson to Georgians (and other former Soviet Union countries that nurture similar aspirations) for being pro-western and for wanting to join NATO, most importantly the breadbasket of the region, Ukraine. Also to prevent guerilla separatists from perceiving weakness in Russia.
Putin was KGB. Their military, and pride, never recovered from the Reagan buildup and their subsequent collapse. Putin confronts Bush while he is at the Olympics (wellI’llbedarned!)
Other things to consider:
If China wasn’t focused on the Olympics right now, what would they be tempted to do while the Russian army is distracted?
The imperial (and Islamic) power in the region, Turkey. Could it have its own designs on Georgia?
RushBaby on August 10, 2008 at 12:08 AM
Mike Honcho on August 9, 2008 at 11:45 PM
So we should back down from bilateral relationships when we are challenged. When hegemons have differing interests they clash. Crying about it won’t help. Either we are a Global hegemon or we are not.
NATO has always been a paper tiger we knew we would always provide the bulwark of the alliance. Unfortunately it is the only mechanism that creates a legal duty for common defense.
Was Turkish inclusion in NATO a provocation to the Soviet southern flank? Maybe it was did we retract our offer of membership to turkey because we would aggravate the Russians?
Should we have allowed the Serbs their little genocide because it would provoke the displeasure of the Russians?
What organization do you suggest we use to counter historic Russian expansionism. Do we use the UN to keep them in check?
Before the cold war the imperial Bear ran rampant even when checked by the Ottomans and the French. Not to mention the British and Austro-Hungarians.
I think somewhere along the line people have forgotten that this whole Superpower business is a high stakes game and fear to fight is the guaranteed way to lose.
by all means lets abandon Eastern Europe to the resurgent Bear that will make us a more powerful and noble country.
elduende on August 10, 2008 at 12:09 AM
Of course not. He’s old school KGB and I don’t need to look into his eyes to see that his soul is as black as the pits of hell either. as I recall it he’s an Andropov protege.
Oldnuke on August 10, 2008 at 12:10 AM
So what happens to U.S. security and economy if the South American Tinhorn Tyrant, the Pint-sized Persian Pretender and Pootie Poo all decide to collaborate and play the oil card?
God forbid we should drill and produce our own oil.
Jesus H.
hillbillyjim on August 10, 2008 at 12:12 AM
Looks like Russian Peacekeeping planes are launching Peacekeeping strikes against civillian targets all over Georgia.
If the United States does not move in with a massive rebuilding effort and development funds, our reputation as a trustworthy strategic partner will be in tatters.
Putin has won this round. He must not win the next.
pseudonominus on August 10, 2008 at 12:14 AM
Pootie-Poot - Vladimir Putin
Bandar Bush - Bandar bin Sultan
The World’s Greatest Hero - Secretary of State Colin Powell
Speedy - Attorney General Alberto Gonzales
Brownie - Director of FEMA Michael D. Brown
La Margarita - Secretary of Education Margaret Spellings
Brother George - CIA Director George Tenet
Corndog - John Cornyn, Republican Senator, Texas
Wonder girl - Hillary Clinton
MB4 on August 10, 2008 at 12:14 AM
Uzbekistan is next …. quote me on it.
upinak on August 10, 2008 at 12:14 AM
MB4 on August 9, 2008 at 10:33 PM
viking01 on August 10, 2008 at 12:18 AM
brazil won’t play that game …. they are and need the money, but not what you would think they need it for. Also.. most countries producing won’t play that game. OPEC is one thing but having a actualy Country telling you how to run your own businesses won’t fly.
Also many of the newer countries are tired of the heavy feelings that the countries they split off from are giving them.
China won’t either. They need the free flowing countries (which include the Saudi OPEC countries) to make the items they send out.
Kind of looking messy huh!
upinak on August 10, 2008 at 12:18 AM
I was on a B-52 crew during that time and we were on alert twenty-four/seven.
Johan Klaus on August 10, 2008 at 12:19 AM
Nerve racking!
But old was trying to explain brinksmanship to me.
upinak on August 10, 2008 at 12:21 AM
So…have you written off Georgia?
RushBaby on August 10, 2008 at 12:25 AM
LOL no, but Uzbekistan is another area… developing oil.
upinak on August 10, 2008 at 12:27 AM
If you are going to stalk me, please come up with some post 6th grade school material.
MB4 on August 10, 2008 at 12:31 AM
Heh, trust me on this Upinak. JK knows exactly what I meant.
Dang! You’re oldner’n me. I was in high school. A couple of years later though I was playing chicken with the Russians in the Med. Other than the high pucker factor how’d you like riding the BUFF?
Oldnuke on August 10, 2008 at 12:34 AM
Dueling insults.
Johan Klaus on August 10, 2008 at 12:34 AM
What’s to stop a back room deal to keep China supplied, and restrict oil from the marketplace in order to 1) enrich Russia, Iran, Venezuela even more and 2) hit the United States economy where it lives with even higher energy prices, and 3) ultimately attempt to shift the balance of power.
I don’t think we’re coming to that, but the possibility that we are leaving ourselves vulnerable is reason enough to drill here, drill now, and also modernize and build out our refining capacity.
hillbillyjim on August 10, 2008 at 12:34 AM
I would be very worried if I lived in Alabama.
MB4 on August 10, 2008 at 12:35 AM
It’s nice that Putin waited until after Solzhenitsyn died before starting the Soviet Union back up again.
He’s not such a bad guy after all.
TheCulturalist on August 10, 2008 at 12:36 AM
Very tiring, nerve racking and lots of box lunches.
Johan Klaus on August 10, 2008 at 12:37 AM
Estebanviking01: Is your blade as sharp as your tongue?ZorroMB4: Is yours as dull as your wit?MB4 on August 10, 2008 at 12:38 AM
opening up OCS and ANWR will help. Also if we can get into the areas that have Natural Gas pools will help as well.
Don’t write off the U.S. either. Russia still has to find all of their areas.. and I bet that they haven’t found their areas like they say they have. When they shut down their oil development they also closed the doors to the USGS who was helping them. And the USGS said screw you to those who wanted the information. As the Russians hasn’t paid. There are many americans working there now, but I bet they are getting out of there fast with all the crap going on.
upinak on August 10, 2008 at 12:40 AM
You would be at home if you lived in Rio Linda.
RushBaby on August 10, 2008 at 12:40 AM
Yup, kinda what I figured. Long periods of intense boredom punctuated by brief moments of sheer terror, and the food sux. Sounds awfully familiar.
Oldnuke on August 10, 2008 at 12:40 AM
And did I mention loud.
Johan Klaus on August 10, 2008 at 12:41 AM
Speaking of brinksmanship… what if Azerbaijan is next followed by Russia and USA sitting there like the bookends of Iran and Ahmadenijad ,with forehead veins pulsating, sitting there reading Turgenev or his Whacko Jihadist’s Bedside Astrologer.
viking01 on August 10, 2008 at 12:41 AM
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