Tyson Foods union reinstates Labor Day as paid holiday after Eid backlash
posted at 11:14 am on August 8, 2008 by Allahpundit
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The lede makes it sound like the union reconsidered under pressure, but read the fine print. Tyson simply decided to give them an extra day this year to make the controversy go away, so now they’ve got Eid and Labor Day off. Which means the dramatic overturning of the previous contract amounts to little more than the union choosing to accept nine paid holidays instead of eight.
Members of the Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union (RWDSU) and Tyson Foods workers at the poultry processing plant in Shelbyville overwhelmingly voted to overturn a union contract that replaced Labor Day as a paid holiday with the Muslim festival of Eid al-Fitr, it was announced this morning.
The new agreement will increase the number of paid days off for workers in the current calendar year to include both Labor Day and the Muslim observance as paid holidays for workers in the Shelbyville plant…
The union says that beginning in calendar year 2009, a worker who does not observe Eid al-Fitr “will have the option of selecting another day as a paid Personal Day at their discretion.”
“The amended contract will be extended throughout the life of the current labor agreement and will recognize the following eight (8) paid holidays: New Year’s Day, Martin Luther King Jr. Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas Day and Eid al-Fitr or Personal Holiday upon an employee’s request.
Each employee used to get his or her birthday off, too, but it sounds like that’ll be replaced going forward by the “Personal Holiday.” If you’re non-Muslim, presumably you’ll take it on your birthday; if you’re Muslim, you’ll have to choose between your birthday and Eid. Oh well: Freedom of contract includes freedom to renegotiate, and they agreed to it. Read all of the Times-Gazette story, though, as it features some amusing quotes from local officials pretending that the outrage here had more to do with Labor Day being replaced than with what it was being replaced by. Using a holiday dedicated to the rights of workers to limit workers’ rights to negotiate their own holidays makes no sense to me, but since it’s a red herring anyway we needn’t dwell on it. See the very end of the piece (or this story) for what the debate is really about. Exit quotation: “Their custom is to negotiate everything, but here you go into stores, you don’t negotiate, you make your mind up if you want to pay for it or not.”
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I still will not buy Tyson food.
L
letget on August 8, 2008 at 11:20 AM
Great, now we got a bunch of pis*ed off muslims handling our meat.
What could go wrong?
cntrlfrk on August 8, 2008 at 11:21 AM
Why is this even newsworthy, apart from the observation that such a high fraction of this particular union local’s membership is Muslim that this type of proposal would pass?
Outlander on August 8, 2008 at 11:21 AM
So is balance in the universe restored?
Mighty nice of the employees to vote themselves an extra day off :P
lorien1973 on August 8, 2008 at 11:21 AM
I pretty much agree with AP. Its just negotiation with a union. If that union happens to be predominantly Muslim, then their issues will come up.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 11:22 AM
lol
ballz2wallz on August 8, 2008 at 11:25 AM
Doesn’t make a difference to me. No Tyson foods will be found around this house.
progressoverpeace on August 8, 2008 at 11:27 AM
E. coli or Salmonella outbreaks.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 8, 2008 at 11:27 AM
Ditto in casa de major dad. It was nasty enough stuff long before this exceedingly un-American move.
tree hugging sister on August 8, 2008 at 11:29 AM
A victory to smack down the idolater Mohammad’s cult and his always makes my day.
Hening on August 8, 2008 at 11:29 AM
Still waiting for the “Muslims are discriminated against!” grievance theatre to gear up….
Mew
acat on August 8, 2008 at 11:30 AM
From the EarnedMedia story….
Uber-racist! Obamessiah will cure them of that.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 8, 2008 at 11:30 AM
The unions have economically weakened the Big 3 automakers, now they’re going after the chicken processing business. Is there no honor any more? First Detroit, Michigan and now, Shelbyville, Tennessee.
volsense on August 8, 2008 at 11:30 AM
I don’t see what the big deal is. The union now gets one extra day off? Isn’t that what unions are supposed to do?
BadgerHawk on August 8, 2008 at 11:32 AM
Don’t anyone confuse that last statement as an endorsement of unions, please.
BadgerHawk on August 8, 2008 at 11:33 AM
Except that it’s not an extra day. It’s the same day they got already, only now it doesn’t have to be used for their birthday.
All of this seems a little overblown. It would be one thing if they did this with Memorial Day or the Fourth of July, but Labor Day isn’t that big of a deal.
Esthier on August 8, 2008 at 11:34 AM
No one “has to celebrate” anything. Good lord.
Allahpundit on August 8, 2008 at 11:34 AM
It is this year. In case the post wasn’t clear, they’re getting nine days this year (birthday, Labor Day, and Eid included) and then eight starting next year (Labor Day plus a “Personal Holiday” of your choice).
Allahpundit on August 8, 2008 at 11:35 AM
Who gives a good g..damn? It’s their company, and they can do what the hell they want. They can require their employees to smoke clove cigarettes for all I care - even the non-smokers. What business is it of anybody’s?
connertown on August 8, 2008 at 11:35 AM
Non news story ends in predictable non story conclusion. Seriously, why are so many people worked up about the inner workings of a union at one particular plant?
malan89 on August 8, 2008 at 11:35 AM
Allahpundit seems a little disappointed.
Theworldisnotenough on August 8, 2008 at 11:36 AM
WE GOT ‘EM, WE GOT ‘EM!!!!! Kinda, sorta, because they are still giving the MUSLEEM holiday… Only partial victory for AMERICA…
pueblo1032 on August 8, 2008 at 11:38 AM
Eh. I take Good Friday off every year and count it as one of my vacation days.
Hmmm, maybe I ought to agitate for all saint’s days as paid holidays - I’d never have to work but still get paid for it.
Ellen on August 8, 2008 at 11:38 AM
It’s nice to know that ticked off people can still make a difference. Labor Day is an American holiday. It should have been left alone. If they wanted to have a special Muslim holiday, it should have been another day off negotiated for. I am still waiting to hear of Christians asking for a prayer room and it being so easily accomadated with no problem. Huge double standard here.
katieanne on August 8, 2008 at 11:38 AM
Great, now Perdue and Tyson are on the off list. Maybe I’ll eat more pork.
Sir Napsalot on August 8, 2008 at 11:40 AM
Yeah, listen, if you want to cast aspersions, cast them clearly. I can handle being trolled, but I don’t like being trolled by people who don’t have the stones to make their accusations plain.
Like I said in the post, it all comes down to freedom of contract. The union agreed to the new deal, so that’s that. I do agree with connertown and malan, though, that this was and is a lame “controversy.”
Allahpundit on August 8, 2008 at 11:40 AM
Change “saints” to “martyrs” and you might get yourself a deal.
/sarc
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 8, 2008 at 11:40 AM
Businesses, schools, etc. have long found ways to accommodate various holidays without ticking off other workers or customers. No doubt Tyson Foods has successfully handled Rosh Hashanah in the past, for example.
That they couldn’t do it in this case makes me aware that it’ll be easy to avoid their products in favor of alternatives.
Gilda on August 8, 2008 at 11:57 AM
If a union which contained a lot of Catholics wanted to replace Labor day with St. Patrick’s day, and everyone involved with the new contract had no problem with it, would there be this much outrage?
I really don’t think so.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 11:59 AM
I disagree. This is a cultural issue and an important one. It is true that the company can do whatever they want, as can the union, but there is an impact on our society that the rest of us are able to take into account (and that the company probably should have, also). But, hey, I still refuse to buy Pepsi products because they honored the Arab boycott.
The other reaction I got from this story (the original one) was, “What the hell is up with Somali muslims?” It seems to be Somali muslims at the base of many of these same problems (the no dog/liquor taxis, refusing to handle non-halal meat at their supermarket jobs, demands for foot basins, …). The company and union were acting within the law (I assume) but that just makes me wonder who the brainiac was who let Somali muslims into the US and when the flow is going to be shut off.
progressoverpeace on August 8, 2008 at 12:01 PM
No lie! Their stuff sucks.
bernzright777 on August 8, 2008 at 12:05 PM
I haven’t been one to buy Tyson in a very long time anyway, and I’m not planning to start now.
Bob's Kid on August 8, 2008 at 12:06 PM
only thing it will do is increase the price of chicken, which can’t be good for Michelle’s children.
kirkill on August 8, 2008 at 12:09 PM
How about this for a clear aspersion, AP? You are named after the Muslim god and you support the right of unionized workers to substitute Eid for Labor Day (a holiday meant to celebrate unions). There is but one conclusion: you, sir, are a terrorist! [/tongue out of cheek]
Outlander on August 8, 2008 at 12:14 PM
Tyson foods can still kiss my a$$ , my boycott will continue .
Mojack420 on August 8, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Ah, thanks for the correction.
Esthier on August 8, 2008 at 12:16 PM
I think it’s important to point out that no muslim holiday requires one taking off work. There are no days of rest in islam.
It should also be noted that muslim holidays work off of the muslim calendar, which is totally lunar. Their holidays travel through the seasons, changing every year. One year it’s in the summertime. Another it’s in the dead of winter … I don’t know how this will affect things, but it is certainly worth some consideration for those who think it’s just another day off. I consider this to be one of the aspects of islam that will not mesh with the Western world - it’s a death penalty crime in islam to add an intercalary. I guess we’re going to find out pretty soon.
progressoverpeace on August 8, 2008 at 12:19 PM
What is that impact? People wanting to celebrate their religion’s holidays, and negotiating a way to do it? They were going to celebrate it anyway, but now they don’t have to go in to work that day. If there are enough Muslims in your town, maybe you’ll get an extra day off someday too, if your employer chooses to negotiate one. Maybe kids in school will not have to go to class on Eid, just like they probably don’t have to go on Christmas, Easter, Rosh Hashanah, and Yom Kippur. If you’re not Muslim, you can spend those extra days off drinking or going to church or whatever it is you like to do. I don’t see any real problems here.
Big S on August 8, 2008 at 12:23 PM
This whole moronic boneheaded thing should never have happened in the first place. This is just more proof that unions have outlasted their usefulness.
pilamaye on August 8, 2008 at 12:23 PM
There are other religions that have holidays that move around, too.
Big S on August 8, 2008 at 12:30 PM
don’t think this effects Tysons only.
Scores of Somali immigrants are taking jobs at the nation’s largest kosher meatpacking plant, replacing Hispanic workers arrested in a huge immigration raid and forcing a remote Iowa town to make another cultural shift.
Got that? The remote Iowa town is forced to make another cultural shift. Now what could they mean by “cultural shift”? Paid Eide holiday replacing Labor Day?
The Labor Day/Eide issue opened a red/white/blue can of worms for Tyson. This sudden turn of events is an attempt to deflect attention from other problems brought by the familiar characteristics of this devout culture:
heroyalwhyness on August 8, 2008 at 12:33 PM
I’m confused. What would have happened if a nonMuslim worker wanted Labor Day off? Would he have to claim it as a personal day? That’s where the b.s. comes in. The majority of workers may be muslim but this is still America and an American shouldn’t penalized for celebrating what are national holidays.
Blake on August 8, 2008 at 12:34 PM
AP, it’s not that it’s a controversy. That’s an overused word and not descriptive in this case anyway. In my reading of this, it’s a cultural issue with Somalis who are trying to bring something of their own into a new situation. They truly are strangers in a strange land, surrounded by a bunch of redneck Tennesseans. ;-)
Someone mentioned yesterday that it takes up to three generations for immigrants to assimilate into the U.S. We are the retched refuse. We make our own melting pot out of what the world gave us and continues to give us. We will survive and adapt, just like the Somalis who are in Shelbuvl.
P.S. I use the outdated melting pot metaphor because I think it’s still apt, even if people don’t want to understand it anymore.
Tennman on August 8, 2008 at 12:36 PM
Are you trying to say it’s a big day for you?
It’s not even celebrated in this country as anything other than a day off.
Christians don’t pray in a manner that would require them to have a prayer room. Not all Christians even bother speaking their prayers.
When we get all worked up over things like this, it just makes us look like bigots.
As conservatives we should have no problem letting a company do what it chooses to do.
If the government started mandating Muslims prayer rooms and Muslim paid holidays, then comments like these might actually make sense.
Companies don’t even have to offer paid holidays. It’s a benefit. Every job I had before this one actually made people work on holidays, without the holiday pay.
Esthier on August 8, 2008 at 12:37 PM
Muslim holidays are not the same as Western holidays. You may think that a holiday calls for a day off work, but islam has no such notion. Further, this is about islamic power-plays in the US, as I see it, not about holidays or anything else.
I don’t want it. The damage to our society is not outweighed by the addition of one extra day off for me - and a constantly moving day, at that.
So you think that islam is on an equal par in the US with Christianity and Judaism? I don’t. I don’t even consider islam to be a religion. It’s a political ideology (which is well evidenced in the structure that Ataturk built for Turkey) and I would be just as ticked if another political ideology was being treated like this.
That’s not the point - not to me, at least. When I take work off for some day, it is not only a day of vacation for me, but an endorsement of that “holiday” and the underlying ideology. I understand that you might poo-poo this point, but it is serious to me.
progressoverpeace on August 8, 2008 at 12:38 PM
First, hiring illegals and now muslim holidays. What’s not to like.
Johan Klaus on August 8, 2008 at 12:40 PM
Not through seasons. The islamic calendar is the only totally lunar one. Mohammed was very explicit about this.
progressoverpeace on August 8, 2008 at 12:41 PM
One more step here and there, pretty soon we will find ourselves facing the same problem as in UK and elsewhere.
Sir Napsalot on August 8, 2008 at 12:43 PM
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard in a while. Perhaps you should look into the history of Labor Day before you tangle yourself up any further in this argument.
Big S on August 8, 2008 at 12:48 PM
omg, That made my day, now I just have to get beyond the Pepsi in my sinuses…
Yogurt on August 8, 2008 at 12:49 PM
yeah man! I wish all those muslims were unemployed! That would certainly improve their temperament.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 12:50 PM
Labor Day was already an accepted holiday before I came along. The endorsement part has to do with new holidays, which are the only ones that need “endorsement” in order to become accepted on a wider scale and embedded as part of the culture.
progressoverpeace on August 8, 2008 at 12:53 PM
No offense, progressoverpeace, but that’s a good point. Labor Day is probably the least conservative holiday we celebrate in this nation.
Esthier on August 8, 2008 at 12:56 PM
Hey, Labor Day is sacred in the U.S. … for dove hunters, since by federal law Sept. 1 is the opening of the season, and Labor Day gives hunters across the country a three-day weekend to start off the season (well, except for this year, when everyone’s ticked off about Sept. 1 falling on a Monday).
Actually, the option of picking seven paid holidays out of eight dates makes sense — how many people out there get their birthday off to begin with unless you’re born on Dec. 25, Jan. 1 or July 4th? So working on that day and taking a day off to honor your religion is a logical option, or the plant and Tyson can work out a deal to do a scaled back production shift on Christmas Day, if 80 percent of the plant’s workers are Muslim.
jon1979 on August 8, 2008 at 12:56 PM
Next , you will think that I am complaining about muslim foot baths.
Johan Klaus on August 8, 2008 at 12:58 PM
The funny thing about this. A labor organization removing labor day as a payed holiday.
jharada on August 8, 2008 at 1:07 PM
No offense taken. Big S certainly raised a good point, outside of the ‘dumbest’ part, of course. I was very aware of this as I wrote my original post and have offered my reasoning about it. It was a question, for me, of the introduction of new holidays, not of existing ones. I should have been more explicit, originally.
progressoverpeace on August 8, 2008 at 1:09 PM
Muslim groups could make a lot of money with a sort of reverse Jesse Jackson blackmail tactic: “Pay up, or we’ll endorse your products. We’ll compliment you right into bankruptcy, Inshallah!”
Bugler on August 8, 2008 at 1:09 PM
You can drop the pretend naivete, because you know as well as I do that it’s not about a union. It’s about a small town in TN being over-ran by Muslim, African, refugee immigrants. Many will call it racism, unless it was a minority group resisting colonization by whites, and then it would be a noble cause to preserve their culture. I personally don’t like it, but I have come to accept that the U.S. I once knew is coming to pass, and now we will see if the “new” U.S. is superior.
DFCtomm on August 8, 2008 at 1:10 PM
Well, they are giving up a Muslim Holiday for a Communist one. Great! /sarc
Tim Burton on August 8, 2008 at 1:16 PM
Strange, I’m the first in the generation and I’m completely “assimilated”. It’s an attitude.
Entelechy on August 8, 2008 at 1:20 PM
I meant what I said. You seem a little disappointed. Take it as an aspersion if you wish. Buyt you do seem disappointed maybe it is your opinion that the issue is “lame.” I do not I think it is significant but for reasons very different from other posters I have seen.
I do very much take umbrage with:
Troll? Are you serious?
Allahpundit I have made several arguements, that have been backed up with facts that you have ignored. When the SPP debate was going on I made the point that many of the stated goals of the SPP mirrored current EU policies. The SPP seemed to be working through the Commerce Dept doing an end run around Congress which has the express authority to negotiate treaties that would be neccesary to implement the SPP goals. I used specific examples and I even posted the SPP goals and EU polices side by side. No response. The entire time posts were framed around the meme that anyone that saw anything besides a harmless bunch of ideas were a bunch of conspiracy theory kooks and the sane knew better. My arguement was nothing like that, it was factual and rational, but ignored just the same. Usually trolls do not have fact/example laden posts, do they?
You are my favorite blogger Allahpundit, don’t call me a @#$% troll
I agree with you an freedom of contract. but this is not a none issue. I grew up in an era of fawning multiculturalism. This would not have raised an eyebrow in California, or New Mexico. Heck the local school system would probaly try and prevent assimilation by giving them classes in Somali. This is a definite contrast as immigrants of different religion and more divergent cultures are penetrating parts of the country that are not accustomed to immigrants we are seeing a cultural push back against multiculturalism, that is gaining momentum nationwide. America is seeing a revival in the definition of what is “American.” I find it very interresting. More than just some lame controversy
Samule P. Huntington wrote a great book about America culture. Who Are We? The Challenges to America’s National Identity
Theworldisnotenough on August 8, 2008 at 1:24 PM
I think this is the wrong site for this discussion.
DFCtomm on August 8, 2008 at 1:28 PM
Beating a dead horse POST the sequel.
redrock on August 8, 2008 at 1:30 PM
You are the brilliant exception to a rule of thumb, my dear.
Tennman on August 8, 2008 at 1:30 PM
Auch ich.
Johan Klaus on August 8, 2008 at 1:46 PM
It actually saddens me a bit that they had to change a democratically established policy simply because many people are morons.
DaveS on August 8, 2008 at 1:54 PM
Big S on August 8, 2008 at 12:48 PM
LOL.
Seriously, that was worth me posting a comment just so I could say “LOL”.
DaveS on August 8, 2008 at 1:55 PM
I think I get what you’re saying, but I think your argument does hold a little less weight when you’re only applying it to new holidays.
Esthier on August 8, 2008 at 2:29 PM
Let me put it this way, I was addressing the introduction of new holidays from the point of view one would take about the introduction of new words into the language. New words are looked at differently than already accepted words. For instance, one would look at a new word formed from an ethnic stereotype differently than the current word ‘welshed’, which most use without any thought about it. I wouldn’t go out of my way to divert the use of ‘welsh’ to something else but that doesn’t mean that I want new words formed using that same criteria. And my use of the word ‘welsh’ is no indication of support of this stereotype, or stereotyping in language, in general, but it probably would be if the word just started gaining use, today. New use is more conscious an act than ingrained use. I was just applying that to holidays. We run into the same argument with all the “G-d”s we have on our currency and dispersed through other parts of government. Someone can be for no new introduction of religious wording in the government without being against the existing.
I never argued for “Labor Day” - though it is very much of a culturally scheduled holiday that has been well-integrated into our economy and lives, as with most of the ‘day of the week’ holidays. If they wanted to change its name to “End Of Summer Day”, I’d say great. I would have been against “Labor Day” from the start for the reasons I stated, but I would have been, and still am, for a summer ending break. I have no use, however, for nearly random holidays (with respect to seasons) and I don’t imagine that many Americans do, but that’s a different part.
progressoverpeace on August 8, 2008 at 2:55 PM
By the way, I do appreciate your post. It was very nice of you.
progressoverpeace on August 8, 2008 at 3:08 PM
Thank you. I do respect you and hope that’s always been clear here.
What you’re saying makes sense, and I think I’d agree with you if this was a government decision. Since it was Tyson instead (and cause Labor Day isn’t a big deal to me anyway), I’m not nearly as concerned about this.
I personally wouldn’t even mind if a company decided to only offer Muslim holidays off unless there’s something illegal about that. I wouldn’t work for that company and would prefer to patronize companies that respect American tradition, but that’s about it really.
Esthier on August 8, 2008 at 3:20 PM
eh… whatever happened to floating holidays. We used to get 2 extra “holiday” days off. Now it’s all lumped into PTO except for 4th of July, Christmas, Memorial and Labor day.
Keith_Indy on August 8, 2008 at 3:30 PM
Yes, I agree. If this had been a government thing I’d be really ticked, like with the public school footbaths and taxi regulations. Luckily, this is private … so far. I am only describing why I don’t like seeing this and what I think the company should have considered. I’m not saying that it shouldn’t be allowed or anything.
Yes, though I am concerned with the patterns I see.
I’m a chain smoker and I support a private company’s right to not hire smokers. As you say about offering only muslim holidays, I would never patronize such a company in any way, but I support their right to run their business as they like. With smoking, it’s just a real shame that my own local government takes away my same right to allow smoking in my restaurant, if I want. Islam also seems to be enjoying a period of over-protected status as it clashes with our government and culture (publicly funded foot baths, conflict with taxi regulations, this, …) and that does concern me.
progressoverpeace on August 8, 2008 at 3:59 PM
Too late.
Their tainted chicken will never touch my diner plate.
madmonkphotog on August 8, 2008 at 4:09 PM
I do not hate Muslims, rather I “waste my hate” on the terrorists who falsely act in Islam’s name. Stop it people - especially those whom demand respect for conservative Christianity.
The only thing worth intolerance is intolerance itself. This is a fair deal.
Signed;
An Expatriate Liberal (whose solemn desire to NOT tolerate intolerance and prevent another 9/11 puts me w/ you guys)
HotAirJosef on August 8, 2008 at 4:50 PM
OK. I see. So then we’re in agreement here.
Talk about a persecuted group. You guys are nearly pariahs in this country.
I agree with you about the smoking in restaurants. I was a waitress back then they decided to ban smoking in restaurants in my area, and I was very concerned that it would hurt me financially.
I can’t say that it did, but I still think it was a bad idea. If a restaurant wants to allow a smoking section, I don’t think the government should be able to say anything.
Though, as someone who doesn’t smoke but has friends who chain smoke, it’s been a nice excuse for some fresh air, which is to say I’ve benefited from it even though I think it’s wrong.
Esthier on August 8, 2008 at 4:55 PM
I already decided to quit buying anything with Tyson’s name on it a few days ago at the beginning of all this. I see absolutely no reason to drop the boycott.
SilverStar830 on August 8, 2008 at 4:57 PM
Why in the world would any company in America honor the holidays of a religion like Islam which considers America the Great Satan and seeks to overthrow our democracy to replace it with their contemptible Sharia law?
How can we be so stupid and complacent as to let enemies of America win without a fight?
Tantor on August 8, 2008 at 5:14 PM
Three generations for immigrants before they become assimilated?
Has anyone any examples of Muslims being assimilated …..ever? Those who do are no longer true Muslims. “take no friend from among the unbelievers” is one of the first rules in the Qu’ran.
Well, it doesn’t much matter either way now, you have a Muslim population.
BL@KBIRD on August 8, 2008 at 6:10 PM
You don’t see the camel’s nose under the tent? Seeing it is not being intolerant.
Johan Klaus on August 8, 2008 at 6:14 PM
It has to do with a great deal more than simply freedom of contract, and the opponents of Tyson on this issue are not simply “This Is A Christian Nation” hysterics, as Allahpundit disappointingly implies with his last link above.
There is a perfectly justifiable reason to oppose the union’s action here — one that has nothing to do with religious cheerleading or chauvinism. It has to do with the fact that avowedly Islamic supremacist groups are pursuing an agenda in the U.S. that involves compelling American groups to accommodate Islamic practices and beliefs, bit by bit, until the “miserable house” of “Western civilization” is “destroyed.” This is not hysterical or hearsay. It is by the own words of a Muslim Brotherhood operative in a strategic plan for America enunciated in 1991.
Given that such an initiative exists, and is being put advanced today by Brotherhood-linked groups in the U.S., it is foolish for American companies to adopt a posture of accommodation — even when such accommodation might be entirely reasonable and in keeping with American pluralism in other contexts, when requested by groups that do not have this supremacist agenda.
Details here.
Robert Spencer on August 8, 2008 at 6:18 PM
Not all Muslims feel that way, for instance many Western Muslims and Turkish Muslims and Southeast Asian Muslims and Iraqi Muslims and Afghani Muslims pray for our success.
Rare am I to disagree with the highly educated Dr. Spencer, but I would just have Tyson issue a personal holiday and be done w/ it. If Muslims picked that day for their religion, fine. If we Judeo-Christians wanted Labor Day or our birthday, that’s okay too.
It’s just the tone of this unnerves me. We can’t paint all Muslims as the enemy.
HotAirJosef on August 8, 2008 at 6:55 PM
HotAirJosef
It is not “painting all Muslims as the enemy” to recognize the Brotherhood’s supremacist agenda, and oppose it.
But no worries: I can see which way the wind is blowing, and have seen it for some time.
Robert Spencer on August 8, 2008 at 7:04 PM
I just hope the wind is towards “liberty & justice for all”. Obviously, I am very much for going after al Qaeda and its relative the Islamic Brotherhood - it’s the average Muslims caught in the middle I have concern for.
HotAirJosef on August 8, 2008 at 7:10 PM
I hope he has as much concern for you.
DFCtomm on August 8, 2008 at 7:15 PM
HotAirJosef
I hope so. But what I meant was that the venues in which the Islamic jihad threat can be discussed fully and honestly are continuing to shrink.
Robert Spencer on August 8, 2008 at 7:24 PM
The problem with Islam as an enemy is that it’s strengths play well against our weaknesses. All Islam needs to do to assault western values is to keep being Islam, while we on the other hand have to reevaluate some principles at the core of our beliefs to attack it.
DFCtomm on August 8, 2008 at 7:27 PM
The man makes a point.
TheUnrepentantGeek on August 8, 2008 at 7:44 PM
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I don’t believe, as some implied in the last thread on this subject, that Tyson has any interest in advancing Islamic beliefs. I do believe that they made a misguided decision that is consistent with their past behavior, in that they are taking a short-term view towards what seems best for their bottom line.
However, I do believe that this must be viewed in the context of the larger picture; this is another example of giving in to demands that would be seen as unreasonable, were they not connected to Islam and the push by groups such as CAIR and the Muslim Brotherhood to create the notion that opposition to such changes is “racist”, xenophobic, etc.
It is easy to dismiss the idea of incrementalism, “creep” if you will, as the paranoid fantasies of the unenlightened, until you look at the pattern of conduct of these groups and the resulting compromises and concessions made in order to mollify them and the consequential demands for more.
This is nothing new. It is a pattern, and sadly, it seems to be working.
hillbillyjim on August 8, 2008 at 7:59 PM
hillbillyjim:
You’re welcome, you’re welcome, you’re welcome!
Of course they don’t.
Of course they are.
Yes — they would not be seen as unreasonable were they not connected to the Islamic supremacist agenda, which is a matter of record and established from the words of the Islamic supremacists themselves.
Not just their conduct. Look at the Muslim Brotherhood memorandum of 1991. They themselves have explained exactly what they’re up to.
And working quite well — witness the difficulty even of otherwise perceptive analysts even to comprehend that it is happening.
Robert Spencer on August 8, 2008 at 8:07 PM
Not to pick nits, but I must take exception to this:
This particular demand seems unreasonable to me regardless of connection to any agenda. To me, it is akin to changing the work calendar to accommodate a portion of the workforce that wants to celebrate “Outer Mongolian Flag Day” or “Illigitemate Mothers’Day.” It has no place in our society as a recognized holiday.
At any rate, thank you for your input. Also, thank you for your weekly Qur’an blog which I read faithfully, although I seldom comment.
hillbillyjim on August 8, 2008 at 8:29 PM
illegitimate—duh
hillbillyjim on August 8, 2008 at 8:31 PM
hillbillyjim:
That’s a very interesting perspective. I will think that over. Meanwhile, I think it is also important that I address the other concern — that I am magnifying the importance of isolated instances of accommodation, and exaggerating their place in the Islamic supremacist program as delineated by the Brotherhood memorandum. I will do my best to address this at Jihad Watch in the near future.
Robert Spencer on August 8, 2008 at 8:38 PM
Not at all.
If anything, it needs to be amplified more. I am dismayed by the lack of attention to the subject in our increasingly ineffective mainstream media.
Multiculturalism will be the death of us all if we are not careful.
hillbillyjim on August 8, 2008 at 8:48 PM
Blind devotion to the idea of multiculturalism will be the death of us all if we are not careful.
Better.
hillbillyjim on August 8, 2008 at 8:53 PM
You hit the nail on the head.
Zorro on August 8, 2008 at 9:23 PM
I agree wholeheartedly. Accommodation does not lead to reciprocal compromise from the Muslims; conversely, it leads to demands for more accommodation, and tacit acceptance of their philosophies and practices.
Anyone who thinks that Islam is benign needs to read Mr. Spencer’s Sunday blog here on HotAir, and consider the fact that Islam is not just a religion, but a religion coupled with a political philosophy that will accept nothing less than total domination/(SUBMISSION FOR KAFIRS).
To borrow a phrase: It’s in the Koran.
hillbillyjim on August 8, 2008 at 9:53 PM
I see what is happening in Europe. Remember all of the riots in France?
Johan Klaus on August 8, 2008 at 11:18 PM
The Qur’an is NOT just a religious document. It is a blueprint for the subjugation of anyone who disagrees with its content.
That in itself should be enough to alert even the most casual of observers to the basic intent of that poisonous book and the implications therein.
hillbillyjim on August 8, 2008 at 11:32 PM
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