No-knock raid victimizes mayor, kills dogs
posted at 12:55 pm on August 8, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Another no-knock raid on a residence has wound up backfiring on police, and this one won’t go away quietly. A Maryland mayor wants a federal investigation after police burst into his home unannounced and shot and killed both of his dogs after what looks like a drug-bust setup gone very, very wrong:
Prince George’s County authorities did not have a “no-knock” warrant when they burst into the home of a mayor July 29, shooting and killing his two dogs — contrary to what police said after the incident.
Judges in Maryland can grant police the right to enter a building and serve a search warrant without knocking if the judge finds there is reasonable suspicion to think evidence might be destroyed or the officers’ safety might be endangered in announcing themselves.
A Prince George’s police spokesman said last week that a Sheriff’s Office SWAT team and county police narcotics officers were operating under such a warrant when they broke down the door of Berwyn Heights Mayor Cheye Calvo, shooting and killing his black Labrador retrievers.
But a review of the warrant indicates that police neither sought nor received permission from Circuit Court Judge Albert W. Northrup to enter without knocking. Northrup found probable cause to suspect that drugs might be in the house and granted police a standard search warrant.
And to listen to Calvo’s version of the story, the probable cause for the normal warrant seems very suspect. Calvo came home after walking his dogs to find a package on his stoop addressed to his wife. He picked it up and left it on the table — and that’s when all hell broke loose in Prince County.
Who left that package on the porch? Police now think it may have been left as a dead-drop for another courier in the drug trade, but that doesn’t make much sense. If it was addressed to the occupant, it would have been opened before a dead-drop retrieval could be made. Presumably, that’s why the police raided the Calvo house.
However, why did this require a no-knock raid? Did someone think the mayor would have guns at the ready to use against police? If so, why not detain him at the door when he returned; why wait for him to go inside where he could get his alleged weapons? And why, for Pete’s sake, did a SWAT team have to handle a marijuana bust?
Calvo wants answers, and as mayor, he’s in a position to get them. The entire nation should be wondering about the judgment used in performing no-knock raids all across the US for marijuana busts, which killed a woman in Atlanta earlier this year and the mayor’s two dogs this time. No-knock raids should be rare and limited to cases where an extreme danger exists for the police in capturing dangerous suspects. Otherwise, the Fourth Amendment is meaningless. (via TMV)
Update: See-Dubya says in the comments that no-knocks are necessary in certain cases to keep people from destroying evidence. That is exactly why I say these make the Fourth Amendment meaningless. Any time the police need to conduct a search, the possibility exists that people will try to get rid of the evidence first. If police use that excuse, it creates a lot more opportunities for no-knock raids — along with opportunities for fatal mistakes.
The difference in time between raiding a house and knocking on the door and presenting a search warrant is minutes at best. The police could turn the water off to the house to keep the residents from flushing toilets more than once and accomplish the same thing without a violent, unannounced entry into a house. Only when a clear and present danger to the safety of the officers exists should they be allowed to smash their way into a residence or business without identifying themselves.
Great debate in the comments — be sure to read all the way through it.
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I love your collie!!
bernzright777 on August 8, 2008 at 1:45 PM
What big time dealer is going to be stupid enough to ship 32lbs of pot directly to their front door? Shouldn’t that have played into the cops thought process a bit?
BadgerHawk on August 8, 2008 at 1:46 PM
Well said.
Of course, if it happened to me and I was handcuffed wearing only my shorts for 2 hours I’d be even more PO’ed than the mayor. But I try not to go off the deep end and such as to advocate we legalize pot as the remedy to this.
wise_man on August 8, 2008 at 1:46 PM
There is a time for everything and if this story isn’t enough to draw your outrage then you are worthless as a citizen. The government would be more than happy to sweep this matter under the rug and allow it to happen again and again in the future. Good citizens hold their government accountable, not to do so is to invite tyranny.
Maxx on August 8, 2008 at 1:46 PM
Yep, and I have the right to sue them for screwing up after it happens. Just because I happen to be innocent, doesn’t mean I’m remotely interested in living in a society where our police are too afraid of possible repercussions of “what if something goes wrong” to do their jobs. Most of the time, they’re guilty.
No, the police arrest you when they assume you’re guilty. If you go to court, it is up to the prosecutors to prove that. If they can’t prove it, well then you don’t go to jail. “Innocent until proven guilty” doesn’t mean that you can’t be arrested until a judge and prosecutor have proven that you are worthy of being arrested.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 1:47 PM
All of them.
Let me guess you think that it’s just like the movies where every deal happens in a parking lot or hotel, right?
Dude, the suburbs are full of pot and dealers. Get real. Everybody isn’t walking around with pistols and sidearms for some weed.
The Race Card on August 8, 2008 at 1:48 PM
Hopefully they will spend their time at the devine duck blind until one day they are reunited.
wise_man on August 8, 2008 at 1:49 PM
That’s a bit naive. That generally doesn’t happen. Ever heard of the Blue Wall of Silence?
fossten on August 8, 2008 at 1:49 PM
Berwyn Heights:
Prince George’s County:
So, we have the county cops decide to go hard core paramilitary in the least violent enclave of the entire county. And that least violent enclave is populated by an extreme minority population, as compared with the rest of the (high crime) rest of the county.
Oh well. I’m sure this investigation will die on the vine. Sorry to be so cynical.
funky chicken on August 8, 2008 at 1:49 PM
Yes. That’s actually my main argument for legalization, is it would give the criminals one less thing to get rich off of. But until its legalized, its still a crime to traffic in illegal drugs (as dumb as that sounds).
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 1:49 PM
The mayor’s wife has a whole lot a splainin’ to do.
faraway on August 8, 2008 at 1:50 PM
But all the guy did was pick up a package and carry it into his house. That is the same reaction that any rational person would have taken. It hardly proves anything, and certainly isn’t enough for the police to come into his house guns blazing. The police had a right to knock on the door and question the guy, and see where it went from there. That’s it.
e-pirate on August 8, 2008 at 1:50 PM
It’s all just a big nothing, unless you’re one of the 42 lucky citizens. The militarization of the police is a problem, and I personally like my police cast in the mold of Andy, and not Barney. Don’t assume that conservatism = always on the cops side. It’s the liberals that like the big nanny state, conservatives tend to be frightened of government. It’s a healthy fear that dates back to the founding fathers.
DFCtomm on August 8, 2008 at 1:51 PM
Don’t kid yourself…the location of the mayor’s house is known in virtually every town (especially a town of 2,000 people).
The most likely scenario is that corrupt police officers probably took 32lbs of pot from the evidence room, went over to his house, set him up and shot his dogs.
SaintOlaf on August 8, 2008 at 1:51 PM
Please request a speaker at your
community civic group.
Law enforcement against prohibition.
gbear on August 8, 2008 at 1:52 PM
Just for some more information on Berwyn Heights for you guys…its not really a town. Most people, I’m sure, don’t know who the mayor is. It is a section of larger College Park, MD, home of the University of Maryland. It really isn’t a town since so many of the homeowners simply rent out their homes to college students. I don’t know if this plays into the cops’ strategy or not, but this isn’t some little, middle of nowhere thing. Its less than 15 miles to DC.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 1:53 PM
He brought 32 pounds of pot into his house, and all they have the right to do is question him? I don’t think so. This was a screwup. But that doesn’t mean we need to neuter the police.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 1:54 PM
Darn skippy! Mayors, Senators and other legitimately elected officials (which he is) should be given at least a little more consideration than Joe Schmoe when the boys and girls in blue want to go kicking doors in. It’s a privilege that comes with the post.
Dark-Star on August 8, 2008 at 1:45 PM
I think Joe Schmoe should be given more privileges than the above. The elected officials should be given less consideration than the avg citizen so they understand the effect of their policies.
unseen on August 8, 2008 at 1:55 PM
Yeah, because that makes a ****load of sense.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 1:55 PM
Police need to be re-taught the Constitution. Arresting someone without a warrant, no idea what the charges are, and then trying to incite the person to further incriminate themselves or commit other crimes happens every day in this country to people who are innocent and people who may not be 100% innocent, but also didn’t do anything above what should be a civil (e.h. get a ticket/pay a fine) matter.
Being tough on crime is fine, but being stupid while fighting crime brings us this kind of thing.
Neo on August 8, 2008 at 1:55 PM
faraway, you may want to read the article before you accuse this lady.
funky chicken on August 8, 2008 at 1:55 PM
But not to COUNTY police.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 1:56 PM
My biggest question on this matter, because what happened doesn’t shock me, it happens all over the country, is why do they refer to it as the mayor’s “house”? My Jackbooted Thug Manual lists very clearly in its SOP that after shooting dogs, children, innocent people, mothers with baby in arms, etc. to call the place a “compound”. But then again this might not be a plywood shack or a church so maybe the term “compound” is not applicable.
LevStrauss on August 8, 2008 at 1:56 PM
He brought 32 pounds of pot into his house, and all they have the right to do is question him? I don’t think so. This was a screwup. But that doesn’t mean we need to neuter the police.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 1:54 PM
With a warrant they also had a right to search his house and confiscate the drugs. They did NOT have a right to bust down the door, shoot his dogs, put his family in danger of death.
unseen on August 8, 2008 at 1:57 PM
Here’s an idea. Try an investigation. Put a surveillance van or vehicle on the house. See what happens, watch the people and see if they are dealing. Unless they are going to smoke thirty pounds of marijuana themselves, they’re going to sell it. They may even sell it near a school, thus making them the second most hated people in the world. Wouldn’t a video of the suspects selling the drugs be nice to show in court?
No, we’re too professional for all of that. We’re too busy to actually investigate a criminal. They may have identified the whole criminal conspiracy that the distribution of thirty pounds of Marijuana would entail. Perhaps they might even be able to subpoena the banking records of the suspect and identify the supplier of the drugs. Why they may even be able to shut down a whole pipeline.
Nope, just go for the splashy justification of the expense of a SWAT team and forget the rest of it.
Snake307 on August 8, 2008 at 2:00 PM
Nobody’s suggesting disarming the officers or putting Byzantine restrictions on their powers, just for the brakes to be put on the testosterone-charged doorcrashing tactics.
Dark-Star on August 8, 2008 at 2:00 PM
ending paramilitary raids in sleepy, low crime enclaves would be neutering the police?
damn, that’s a new level of crazy right there.
There was no history of drug trafficing out of that home. The feds picked up the box way back in Arizona with the drug sniffing dog. They had at least 2 days to figure that out, and lots of other stuff (surveillance, look for meth lab style activity, try to set up an undercover purchase from residents of the house, and on and on).
But they didn’t bother to do any of that. They wanted to go into this high end suburn guns a blazing, without doing their homework. Why?
The rest of Prince George’s County is becoming as crime ridden as Baltimore, and they can spare this huge force for this operation?
funky chicken on August 8, 2008 at 2:00 PM
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 1:54 PM
who’s life is more important to you? the police or the citizen. I understand the need to protect the lives of police officers but I think the lives of citizens should come first. the police should do everything in their power to protect the citizens even if that citizen is a criminal. busting into homes without notice, without indentification be it uniforms or badges is not a way to avoid death and destruction. It is a way to cause it. If you sorrund a house where are the criminals going to go?
unseen on August 8, 2008 at 2:01 PM
It one thing if thses people looked like Cheech and Chong.
It’s another when they look like typical Americans.
And it’s another thing if they didn’t even bother to take a hard look at who they were busting. It called an investigation. Look it up.
Kini on August 8, 2008 at 2:03 PM
This isn’t a high-end suburb. This isn’t a sleepy, low-crime enclave. It is just a technical distinction from the greater city of College Park. Why don’t you look up the stats for College Park. Its NOT sleepy.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 2:03 PM
Police are citizens. They put their asses out there, in danger, to protect citizens. A mistake like this only goes to fuel anti-police sentiment that is more dangerous for cops, and more dangerous for citizens overall. In this case, I blame the police for screwing up, but I also blame the millions of people who will be outraged over this for a couple of days and then forget about it, but it will only add to their cache of “Reasons why cops suck” list and will make the lives of cops more dangerous.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 2:07 PM
It was a swat team, that burst in and immediately started firing assault rifles. What would have happened if having seen strange men in black bursting into his home and opening fire he had picked up a knife, from the kitchen counter, to defend his wife? Neutering has the effect of reducing aggression, so it’s an interesting word to use.
DFCtomm on August 8, 2008 at 2:08 PM
Then there is another possibility. What if you knew it was a mayor of a town? Would you want to show him dealing with other government officials or would you want to squash the matter fast and get a scapegoat. That kinds of stuff happens in towns because then the police can snuff out the competition. I am also just saying this because I have talked to people throughout my life who did time for this sort of thing and one thing that many of them say is that the weight they are charged with is much lighter than what they were convicted of. Who is going to say in court, “No it wasn’t 2 lbs, it was 10 lbs”?
If you look at things from the economic incentives and not from the belief that everyone is good and moral, because many aren’t, it opens many more possiblities.
LevStrauss on August 8, 2008 at 2:08 PM
At the end of his CNN interview this morning, the mayor wanted to make sure that people knew this happens to innocent people. Kiren Chetry had a throw-away line that his case got attention because people were upset about the dogs being killed…if that’s so it’s too bad that it takes dead pets to all attention to this abuse of power.
deedledee on August 8, 2008 at 2:08 PM
Berwyn heights:
Prince George’s County:
If I can see the difference from a whole country away, I would surely hope the Prince George’s County cops could discern the pattern.
funky chicken on August 8, 2008 at 2:10 PM
Gotta agree with you thee, unseen. Logically, who in the world has the ability to flush 32 pounds of anything when a cop knocks on the door? The way the rules go, at least according to a deputy sheriff that I used to hang out with, you get your warrent and it has to be a no-knock warrant. Otherwise, you knock on the door, identify yourself as a police officer, and then if you have evidence of a weapons or a disposal attempt, you can break down the door.
This is precisely the reason the Fourth Amendment was written. No home shall be entered without a warrant from a duly authorized authority. It’s a basic right of every American.
Tennman on August 8, 2008 at 2:10 PM
This was not an isolated event. In a similar raid last November, the same department destroyed the interior of a home, killed the family dog, terrorized the occupants, and then found out they had the wrong address.
.
Just recently a prisoner accused of killing a police officer was himself murdered in a secure solitary confinement cell in the county jail. The authorities don’t seem to know how that happened and the investigation seems have stalled.
.
The county’s deputy director of homeland security, a police officer, and former driver for the county executive, is in prison for 45 years for murder–he shot two unarmed furniture deliverymen for reasons that have never been explained. He had been retained on the police force, and frequently promoted, despite a long and public record of brutality and irrational violent behavior.
.
I could go on and on for quite some time. The FBI is beginning a review of the latest case. I don’t have a lot of confidence in them, but they have found wrongdoing here in the past.
.
Every county level elected official is a Democrat, as is every member of the Maryland legislature elected from the county. There are NO local Republican officials to blame. And the majority of the elected officials, including the county executive and the sheriff, plus the appointed chief of police, are Black. The local NAACP folks tend to blame police brutality on racism, but the fact is that the much of the local brutality is committed by Black officer, and is never condemned by their Black superiors.
.
Diane C. Russell
dcrussell@gmail.com
http://pg-politics.blogspot.com
Diane C. Russell on August 8, 2008 at 2:10 PM
Yeah abuses of authority that hurt those they are tasked to serve knows no color, you just have to look back at the NAACP to see that.
LevStrauss on August 8, 2008 at 2:14 PM
Correction, they accepted an unknown parcel into their house. If actions like this are allow to stand, every time you bring a mailing into your house the cops have a right to barge in and shoot your dogs and maybe you.
Maxx on August 8, 2008 at 2:14 PM
Judging by some of your quotes you think we’re turning into a police state anyways so there is no use arguing with you.
DethMetalCookieMonst on August 8, 2008 at 2:14 PM
Well in my mind any nonviolent drug offender is innocent, but this site does in fact distinguish between non-violent offenders. Even one death of an innocent is unacceptable. The government should never have been performing these bill of rights violating no knock warrants in the first place, and our police force is not supposed to be a paramilitary group. Indeed, the fact that this was a marijuana bust just adds to the ridiculousness.
libertytexan on August 8, 2008 at 2:15 PM
Okay, well. I’m willing to conceded this police force is corrupt. That doesn’t mean I believe anti-police sentiment is justified or helpful.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 2:15 PM
And from that link by libertytexan….24 police officers dead. So let’s not pretend every person being raided is perfectly innocent.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 2:17 PM
So, I can ship drugs to anyone I do not like, and have them arrested for possession? Interesting means of revenge. If I am really lucky, they break down the door and shoot the dogs.
jerseyman on August 8, 2008 at 2:20 PM
It’s called a set-up…nothing new. High overhead, must be able to part with drugs..
The Race Card on August 8, 2008 at 2:24 PM
This is ridiculous. First off, I AGREE that no-knock warrants are necessary. BUT!!!!!! they should be used ONLY by highly trained SWAT teams and ONLY for incredibly dangerous criminals/crimes. I mean seriously, we’re not talking about a hostage rescue/gang/armed robbery raid here… A no-knock for a pot beef/non-violent offense is totally BS and it unnecessarily endangers the officers and the general populace.
I am active duty military and I usually give cops the benefit of the doubt… but they are not ALWAYS right. Just being trained is not enough, you have to maintain your proficiency with constant training otherwise the “boys with toys” meme fits. You have to do you homework before you pull off a no-knock warrant. The fact that they did not even know who’s house it was shows they did not meet that most basic standard. There are so many other ways they could have handled this if they had any imagination and ALL would have been safer for everyone. Look at that Rockefeller douchbag, they did their homework, got him out of the house and arrested him w/o his kidnapped daughter knowing… Wow! imagine that? Tell me why that little girl deserves more diligence by the police than everyone else?
This horse was beaten to death over at Blackfive.net a few years ago. I have seen many cases of “Wrong house” leading to death of civilians and officers (and subsequently a civilian getting life in prison for trying to defend his infant son, and because he killed the police chiefs son… who, ironically, was the bonehead who raided the wrong house). I’m not a “Rambo”… but if the cops bust down my door BEFORE announcing themselves, somebody is going to die (probably me). No matter what, I will be made out to be the bad guy. Last point to consider: copycat home invasions dressed as police? (This or here or this one or again)Do I have to worry that everybody who breaks down my door might be a cop who was too lazy to double check an address and do a bit of surveillance?
BadBrad on August 8, 2008 at 2:26 PM
LOL. I just did a google search for “successful police raids” and only got 162 results.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 2:28 PM
This story is probably due for an update. According to the latest news. The PG County Police arrested two men this week who had sent packages to several people as part of a drug drop operation. The packages were addressed to specific people. The deliveryman would drop them off and someone would come by and scoop them up with the person whose name was on the package being completely oblivious (I found the link at Rachel Lucas’ site).
That said, the police had no excuse to act in the way they did. We’re talking 32 pounds of marijuana. If the police had surrounded the house, banged on the door, identified themselves, then given the folks 5-10 seconds to answer it, there would have been little potential for the evidence to be erased. You think you can get rid of 32 pounds of marijuana in ten seconds?
The PG County police have a very nasty reputation here in Maryland for being a bit to happy on the trigger and a bit to eager to lay the lumber to someone (we’ve joked for years, though not in PG County of the department’s “beat and release policy” where they used to just pummel a suspect then let him go without charges). Not even police officers relish being pulled over in PG County because it’s likely that they’ll be gun-faced before they even have a chance to identify themselves. The department’s gotten better, but not a lot better.
Further, there was no reason, given the time they had, not to coordinate with the local municipal police department. That’s just horrible police work. The Berwyn Heights PD knows its city better than the county police. Putting through a call and filling the Chief in on what they were looking at would have been not just courteous but smart from a law-enforcement position.
I’m curious now about how long PGPD was investigating the guys they arrested for the drug deliveries.
Jimmie on August 8, 2008 at 2:32 PM
Jimmy, are you being facetious? Like 162 is a huge number?
Otherwise, it sounds like you’re flip-flopping a bit.
bernzright777 on August 8, 2008 at 2:33 PM
I am more concerned with the protection of the rights of the citizen, than prosecution of the guilty. Don’t get me wrong I want the guilty punished, and severely, but all our liberties depend on the protection of the rights of the citizen, and not the capture of potheads.
DFCtomm on August 8, 2008 at 2:33 PM
No, 162 is tiny. That’s the joke. Nobody’s interested in a successful police raid.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 2:34 PM
Ed- The 4th Ammendment says ‘no Warrant shall issue’, not ‘police shall knock’. Having the warrant, no-knock or not, expressly satisfies the 4th Ammendment requirement to present probable cause to a judge and obtain a warrant. You’re incredibly far off saying that not knocking makes the 4th ammendment meaningless.
Arguing the wisdom if no-knock entries is another issue. But Warrant = Constitutional.
Sgt_H on August 8, 2008 at 2:36 PM
This is PG county. Some of the officers I’ve met are great. However, AFAIK the police have a thirty year history of problems. It used to be white on black violence (in the 70’s), but today it is police on citizen violence. Lots of troubling incidents, like the officer that followed someone into Virginia, and shot him dead, the officer who shot two mattress discounters delivery men at his house, killing one, (one of a number of incidents with that senior police officer), and the cop killer who was recently found dead in a secure part of the jail. Only the police had access.
It’s a corrupt county government with some problem areas.
NaCly dog on August 8, 2008 at 2:37 PM
Ah, got it, my bad.
bernzright777 on August 8, 2008 at 2:38 PM
Even worse… not to mention that they could have just picked him up while he was walking his dogs. “Excuse me sir, do you live here?” “Yes” “Can you step over here please?”
MD is cali-like in it’s gun laws… any chance that is why the police there fear an honest, armed citizen?
BadBrad on August 8, 2008 at 2:41 PM
Was this the same guy, a Corporal, that was also PG county’s number 2 guy for Homeland Security or something?
bernzright777 on August 8, 2008 at 2:41 PM
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 2:07 PM
police while on the job are not citizens. they have more power and more danger. I say again nothing good comes of police putting their lives ahead of citizens. nothing. Police are to protect and to serve. That means their lives before citizens. It is the reason they are granted the addtionial power in the first place. when they start putting their lives before citizens than we have problems.
I hate to see any death with police raids be it citizens or police but I would rather see 10 police killed in the line of duty than 1 innocent citizen killed. If it was reversed than the 10 citizens deaths would represent a death of freedom.
The entire point is that no-knock warrants cause the voilence that police are trying to avoid. Yes there are dangerous criminals out there. There are ways to apprend or kill these types of people with min violence. knocking down doors and surprising people is not one of they. when people are surprised or threatened they react with anger and force more times then not.
I am not a crinmal but I know if I see a large group of people coming into my house that do not identify themselves I will be shooting first.
If on the other hand they knock show me their warrant then I will let them in since I have nothing to hide. Or if a see several police cars with lights flashing I would also not start shooting.
unseen on August 8, 2008 at 2:42 PM
fossten and DFCtomm, it’s not collateral damage. It is an extremely small percentage of law-breaking law enforcement agents. We should do the same thing we do to other law-breakers… prosecute them. We should not punish law enforcement agents. If we were to follow that logic, we should take away your right to drive cause their are law-breaking drivers.
craig on August 8, 2008 at 2:44 PM
From libertytexan’s link,
The children were innocent, but they didn’t die. It was a foolish move on the police’s part to move in their presence, and it should be punished. The criminal did die and was not innocent, but this was categorized as “Death of an Innocent”. Do you want me to keep looking?
craig on August 8, 2008 at 2:50 PM
Yes.
NaCly dog on August 8, 2008 at 2:52 PM
Exactly. And now we know exactly WHO set him up.
Who has 32 lbs of pot lying around in an evidence room that cost them nothing to get and don’t care if they lose it?
SaintOlaf on August 8, 2008 at 2:53 PM
pot = arrested
Donut on August 8, 2008 at 2:53 PM
The fact that got included in “innocent” pretty much says it all.
And even if we change the laws to stop no-knock raids…people are still going to die in police accidents. Does that mean we live in a police state? No.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 2:53 PM
Traffic violations do not correspond to infringement of civil rights. You risk your life as a police officer, and if that is unacceptable to you then you need to find another career. The establishment of draconian, unconstitutional procedures in the name of officer safety is unacceptable.
DFCtomm on August 8, 2008 at 2:55 PM
Was Meluzzi a capital criminal, or was he listed as armed and dangerous?
fossten on August 8, 2008 at 3:10 PM
Good thing marijuana’s illlegal.
Akzed on August 8, 2008 at 3:11 PM
How is requiring LEOs to think of the rights of citizens before they act punishing them?
fossten on August 8, 2008 at 3:12 PM
The package wasn’t even opened, so from a jury’s point of view the cops couldn’t even prove that anyone knew what was in the box. Do you know what is inside every mailing that is sent to you BEFORE you open it? How do you know someone hasn’t sent you something illegal? Do you think the cops should be allowed to break down your door and threaten you with deadly force every time you bring your mail into the house?
Maxx on August 8, 2008 at 3:13 PM
I catch your point, but here’s the problem.
The police still screwed up because it wasn’t his name on the package. Even if he had signed for the package, the police can not presume that he knew what was in it until he had it open. He could very easily say, “Why would I know what’s in the box? It doesn’t have my name on it, does it?”
Here’s what gets me about the story. Let’s follow the chain of events.
1) Police intercept a pacakge with 32 pounds of weed.
2) Police set up a fake delivery.
3) Nice older lady tells fake delivery guy to set the box on the porch, because the person to whom it’s addressed isn’t home yet.
4) Man comes home from work. Man sees box with his wife’s name on it, takes it into the house, sits it on the table, and goes upstairs to change clothes.
5) Police storm house, cuff and question guy and woman, shoot dogs, take the box and leave.
6) Wife, whose name was the one on the box, comes home and sees carnage.
What important thing is missing there?
Jimmie on August 8, 2008 at 3:14 PM
Does anyone here believe that none of these police knew where the mayor lived?
Akzed on August 8, 2008 at 3:17 PM
Yes, because the county police never consulted the local sheriff.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 3:19 PM
That’s it right there. The police thought they had a big catch and didn’t need no stinkin’ warrant because the local Mayor’s wife was a drug dealer!
Total screw up all the way around. What I’d like to know is if this package was tracked from AZ to Maryland, why wasn’t the DEA involved in this raid? Why were the local county cops in the lead on this.
There is a lot more to this story and the cops involved in this all need to be fired. Period.
Texas Gal on August 8, 2008 at 3:22 PM
You got me…what?
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 3:22 PM
If you read the story at the linked article you will see that they had to know.
Texas Gal on August 8, 2008 at 3:23 PM
You guys are going to have to give it up on this one, it’s lost. The police violated the warrant they received. They were too dense to realize all wasn’t as it should be once they arrived upon the scene. They violently overreacted once they entered the home. Admit defeat on this one, and come back for the next yuppie traffic violator who gets tazered.
DFCtomm on August 8, 2008 at 3:24 PM
I don’t get where that comment came from, but I was just responding that the county cops had no idea it was the mayor’s house. According to this,
There’s pretty much no way they knew he was the mayor of a tiny little technicality of a town that is basically College Park.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 3:26 PM
fossten
Listen you can be vague and spout theoreticals about if drugs are truly bad or not or you can start researching and reading. I’ll help you out this time… Meluzzi’s record included the following: burglary, aggravated assault, and cocaine possession. I find it incomprehensible that someone has the time to put together a silly map like this but totally ignores the ruined lives of the families of addicts of this country. Ya sure… who needs a drug war? Give drugs a free pass. How pathetic.
craig on August 8, 2008 at 3:28 PM
From the WaPo article:
Are you starting to get an idea about how tiny this town is and how probably meaningless the title of “Mayor” is?
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 3:29 PM
DFCtomm I’m not defending the Maryland county numbnuts! I’m saying prosecute them to the full extent of the law and make up some new ones to prosecute them some more! Just don’t punish LEOs by taking away their tools to perform their job with the safety of themselves and the citizens in mind.
craig on August 8, 2008 at 3:32 PM
Jimmy the notable,
Perhaps you haven’t been involved in any of the previous “X” got tazered threads, but Allah likes to put them up from time to time, and I think it’s just to cause trouble. I addressed you specifically because you have been vocal in this thread in support of the police, but I meant it also as a general statement.
DFCtomm on August 8, 2008 at 3:33 PM
Unless I’m dull I didn’t see anything suggesting that they knew he was mayor, but I’ll take your word. I can’t believe he didn’t mention it quickly enough.
The SWATification of police activity does not comfort me. It’s easier to put ten cops into flack jackets and bust into a home than it is to conduct surveillance for two weeks.
Akzed on August 8, 2008 at 3:34 PM
Also from that article at Fox News:
So, doing a little math: their 32 pounds represents 7.7% of the total scam, or $276,000 worth of marijuana. I’m sorry, I know these cops screwed up big time, but that is too much money changing hands to just assume that the people usually involved would not have weapons. That’s obviously not the case this time, but just because you hard-core libertarians always assume marijuana = not a crime, doesn’t always mean that criminals don’t deal with marijuana.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 3:35 PM
I am in no way advocating taking any tools away from, or endangering officers in any way. I want officers to have all the constitutionally allowable resources available, and I want them to be safe, but if there is to be a loser, then that loser won’t be personal liberties.
DFCtomm on August 8, 2008 at 3:38 PM
Okay then. And yes, I have admitted that these cops are corrupt. I was pretty vocal in the thread about cop in NYC body-checking that biker.
But yeah, the more I read about this, the more screwed up it is. These guys screwed up. That doesn’t mean that I think that no-knock warrants are unconstitutional or that prosecuting drug-traffickers is a waste of money. Somebody earlier made the comparison to Abu Ghraib and I think the comparison makes sense. We don’t want people demonizing our troops over what a few jackasses did, and I don’t want people demonizing our Cops over what a few corrupt morons did in this case.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 3:38 PM
Hey, since this latest experiment with prohibition is working so well, why don’t we outlaw booze again? And to make it extra good lets outlaw tobacco too. Whaddya say?
Akzed on August 8, 2008 at 3:39 PM
The article doesn’t say the cops knew he was the local mayor, but they had to know. I wasn’t being insulting Akzed, it’s just my experience talking. Just as soon as that package was hit on in AZ someone contacted the county PD in Maryland and they ran the address. They knew who lived in that house. This is county cops on steroids. They didn’t coordinate with the local PD, they evidently didn’t even contact the DEA and this package crossed state lines. And something else too. Was this US postal delivery or private UPS type delivery? Because when this package was hit on by a drug dog in AZ and was bound for Maryland, the DEA should have been contacted and it sure sounds like they weren’t.
Texas Gal on August 8, 2008 at 3:54 PM
Prohibition isn’t the issue at hand here, but since I have been known to go off on a tangent myself, I can hardly cast a stone, but I will anyway. This isn’t about drugs or the war on drugs, or whether non-violent drug offenders are “innocent”. I don’t mean innocent as in not guilty, but innocent in the way a lamb is, which is how many people who support legalization like to portray them. It’s about the militarization of the police, and police policy.
DFCtomm on August 8, 2008 at 3:55 PM
Read this story. This guy was living in his grandmom’s house. She was a gardener and had grow lights in her garage. Someone gave a “tip” the police and the next thing you know everybody loses, a dead police officer and a very young man charged with murder.
http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?s=8383260
Cindy Munford on August 8, 2008 at 3:55 PM
DFCtomm, good comment. Agreed. I think that extremely limited no-knock raids with extremely strict oversight and rational is a gray area that I could argue both sides of. This was not an example of that though.
Akzed, do you really want to compare drugs to booze and tobacco? Guess which crowd graduated with me in college: the pot-smokers or the drinking, smoking non-pot-smokers? Maybe you should try bringing stats to the table before making a comparison like that.
craig on August 8, 2008 at 3:59 PM
Set up/Revenge, maybe. Bad timing, maybe. Wife’s an actual drug dealer, maybe. I’m not sure why experienced drug dealers would mail or ship UPS/FEDEX marijuana.
If set-up/revenge, the person got their money’s worth and I would start investigating the relatives of who Diane stated. I could see doing it just because they feel the Mayor didn’t represent them and they did not receive any justice from the raid on their home.
If the drugs were a drop off as stated by Jimmie, the shippers screwed up. Since UPS/FEDEX/USPS has tracking numbers, one can track a package online from origin to destination. If I was sending that package, I would know the working hours of the person whom home I am sending the package too so that they will not be there when the package is delivered and I could pick it up in safety. If caught by police for some unknown reason, I could claim that I am a petty thief following the delivery truck; therefore, not getting the more serious drug related charge.
Or the real case could be the mayor’s wife actually dealt drugs to make extra money and figured her husband could get her out of any trouble if caught.
PrettyD_Vicious on August 8, 2008 at 4:00 PM
And I think no-knock raids would end up with dead police. To may cases of rival gangs/drug dealers busting in on each other to steal money and/or drugs. Sometimes these youthful drugs dealers still live with their clueless parents, but parents that have and will use guns. The next thing that happens is a shoot-out in the old parlor.
PrettyD_Vicious on August 8, 2008 at 4:05 PM
Thanks for posting that. Yep! big time screw up! Looks to me like the local FedEx has a drug dealer on their payroll. What a sloppy mess of investigation. You would think that the first suspect to be checked out would be the FedEx not the wife of the local mayor. Based on how sloppy this all went down, it’s likely they didn’t know he was the local mayor. But they should have known. If they had coordinated with the local PD they would have known. But most likely they didn’t want to share the bust. They should have run backgrounds on the occupants of the house before they busted down the doors. If they had involved the DEA that would have been done. I wonder if the judge even asked them who these people were.
Texas Gal on August 8, 2008 at 4:07 PM
Our police are para-military government agents. They constitute a standing army. They are unconstitutional and should be disbanded.
The militia should execute the laws of the land.
Article 1, Section 8, Clause 15
LimeyGeek on August 8, 2008 at 4:15 PM
Wow! Unbelievable that this County Sheriff and his Deputies still have their jobs!
Texas Gal on August 8, 2008 at 4:24 PM
I’m not referring to people being mad about the incident. I’m referring to these threads getting to the point so-called conservatives start referring to all cops as “pigs” and everything starts looking like lyrics to a Rage Against the Machine song.
I think what happened was wrong and what was done was stupid. But I’m not going to hate on all cops (or even the majority of them) because of it.
DethMetalCookieMonst on August 8, 2008 at 4:25 PM
Rosmerta on August 8, 2008 at 3:26 PM
It did in Chesapeake, VA, I attached a link at 3:55 p.m. Very sad.
Cindy Munford on August 8, 2008 at 4:26 PM
PrettyD_Vicious on August 8, 2008 at 4:05 PM
Sorry, I don’t know how that happened.
It did in Chesapeake, VA, I attached a link at 3:55 p.m. Very sad.
Cindy Munford on August 8, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Cindy Munford on August 8, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Lots… like I said in my earlier post… no-knocks for nonviolent crimes is negligence by law enforcement. Why is it the military has to learn “proportionality” but the cops don’t?
let me break this down w/o all the rhetoric about “police states”.
hmmmmmm? 1.Did not bother to check who lived there… check
2. Did not do any surveillance of the house… check
3. Did not check or knew (worse) that no violent crimials (or criminals period) lived at X address… check
4. Too good to check with local law enforcement… check
5. Didn’t think of any other possibilities other than a paramilitary raid on an unknown target… check
Until the police departments across the country realize that the liberal use of “no-knocks” for minor crimes is more dangerous to their own officers than they are to criminals this kind of stupidity will continue.
An honest mistake, I can forgive… but this is not an honest mistake. This is sloppy, lazy police work and = negligence plain and simple. To me THAT is a violation of all our rights.
BadBrad on August 8, 2008 at 4:31 PM
Opps realized I forgot to add to my previous comment so let me edit that now..
Texas Gal on August 8, 2008 at 4:47 PM
I am not against no-knocks, I think police are facing an increasingly violent group of criminals/gangs… I just question how cavalierly they use it and how little training some depts do before conducting them.
My point is this… that cop had every right to shoot the hippie if he thought his life was in danger. I think the fault lies with the supervisor who put him in that position for such a minor offense. ok.. maybe they thought he was a major pot dealer… SO WHAT? Since when is the penalty for dealing pot death?
There are countless examples of this at the cato institute sight. I just ask why would you put your officers in that kind of position for such minor offenses? Because I don’t blame some of those people for shooting at the cops either… but no matter what… the citizen (innocent suspect, nonviolent criminal, or just some joe who lived at the wrong house) is made out to be the bad guy and the police are NEVER held to account.
BadBrad on August 8, 2008 at 4:47 PM
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