McCain ad: “Painful”
posted at 10:30 am on August 8, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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No, this isn’t a reference to the new Obama salute, but instead the economic pain felt by American families. The latest John McCain ad continues attacking Barack Obama, this time correcting an earlier error in their attack on his record on tax policy:
Life in the spotlight must be grand, but for the rest of us times are tough. Obama voted to raise taxes on people making just $42,000. He promises more taxes on small business, seniors, your life savings, your family.
Painful taxes, hard choices for your budget. Not ready to lead. That’s the real Obama.
Earlier, the McCain campaign had set the figure on taxation at $32,000, which Factcheck noted was incorrect. The increase applied to $32,000 or more in taxable income for individuals, which require a gross income of $41,500. Even at that higher (and more accurate) number, the Barack Obama tax record shows that his policies have meant higher taxes for most Americans, not just for the “wealthy”.
The accuracy makes the ad more effective, at least for those who followed the earlier controversy. It moves away from the snarky, satirical jabs about celebrity that so discomfited Obama and his supporters that they began to hallucinate about “phallic symbols”, which Allahpundit skewered and Jon Stewart ridiculed. It’s also a little less energetic and eyecatching as a result, which may not drive the YouTube views or catch attention on television.
Still, it is effective and hammers home a single point: Obama will raise your taxes. McCain needs to keep jabbing on this point, but he also needs a couple of roundhouses on energy policy to maintain momentum.
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Many on the left will see that as a feature, not a bug.
Physics Geek on August 8, 2008 at 10:36 AM
Effective at least until one realizes that McCain wants to raise corporate taxes so individuals will end up paying more to the government anyway.
Also less effective when one really hears what McCain says about taxes- He is against raising SOME taxes on MOST Americans. He isn’t in favor of maintaining all of the Bush tax cuts and he is all in favor of raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans.
highhopes on August 8, 2008 at 10:36 AM
And the left wonders “so what’s the problem”?
sabbott on August 8, 2008 at 10:39 AM
McCain wants to raise corporate taxes
No, he wants to cut them from 35% to 25%. Do you make this stuff up as you go along?
Ed Morrissey on August 8, 2008 at 10:40 AM
McCain’s true strong point is spending. He needs to start talking about the programs he will cut – that will bring voters to the table.
Think_b4_speaking on August 8, 2008 at 10:41 AM
Pain at the gas pump is another commercial waiting to be made.
Right_of_Attila on August 8, 2008 at 10:45 AM
For some, but not all. The average person who doesn’t follow the political news will be conflicted if they learn about Obama’s economic views – beyond the MSM rhetoric. They want hope and change, but they want their paycheck as well. Decisions, decisions.
The liberal university professor loves raising taxes out of ‘fairness,’ and so do the student drones who regurgitate what their professors tell them, but hopefully not the average voters who are as yet undecided (if there are many remaining.)
Grafted on August 8, 2008 at 10:47 AM
Oh, those poor widdle wealthy Americans. I’m sure they’ll miss only buying one pointless hybrid to park beside their 15 SUVS, instead of two.
Boo-frigging-hoo.
mjk on August 8, 2008 at 10:49 AM
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/411693_CandidateTaxPlans.pdf#page=27
“…under Obama’s tax proposals, tax filers in the middle quintile — those earning between $37,595-$66,354 annually — would receive an average tax cut of $1,042 in 2009 and an average tax cut of $2,136 in 2012.”
“Senator McCain’s tax cuts would primarily benefit those with very high incomes,” while “Senator Obama offers much larger tax breaks to low- and middle-income taxpayers and would increase taxes on high-income taxpayers.”
Next.
Dave Rywall on August 8, 2008 at 10:49 AM
Okay. Its official, I’m fatigued by all of the attack ads, and that means that Americans will be soon, as well. I want some positive ads simply about what he’s going to do, not what Obama’s going to do.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 10:49 AM
They need to rework the ad saying “How Painful? [then while showing the new "O" logo] This painful!”
multiuseless on August 8, 2008 at 10:50 AM
…and I now see that you already quanitifed it with the word ‘many’. Jolly good :)
I’m off to get an eye exam…
Grafted on August 8, 2008 at 10:50 AM
That’s just what Obama is supposedly planning on doing. Which as we all know changes with the wind. His actual, physical voting record is one for raised taxes on middle classes.
Next.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Are they actually running these ads on television or just putting them on the net?
flyfisher on August 8, 2008 at 10:54 AM
The rich SHOULD get a tax break. They pay way more than their ‘fair share’.
Besides, how many people have gotten a job from a poor person?
As to McCain, once he grants amnesty to 20+M ILLEGALS, we’re all going to have to pay more. Call it the amnesty tax.
Darksean on August 8, 2008 at 10:54 AM
Maybe people are sick of the negative ads, but aside from that this is imho the best one yet – tight! (not an Obama salute ref.)
saus on August 8, 2008 at 10:55 AM
Thats not the point. It should not be up to the few to carry the many. The inevitable result of that policy is fewer people pulling the cart and more people riding in it. The more economic freedom there is the better off ALL OF US ARE!
Where has this Republican class warfare element come from?
Zetterson on August 8, 2008 at 10:58 AM
Sounds like Patricia Clarkson doing the voiceover. Anyone know for sure?
PattyJ on August 8, 2008 at 11:01 AM
The under the table economy costs the government billions and billions in unpaid income taxes. Perhaps some energy and shrieking could be directed at that.
jimmythenotable – Yes, you are a rocket scientist: the evaluation IS of things Obama and McCain SAY they’re going to do. What the fu*k else are we supposed to evaluate?
Dave Rywall on August 8, 2008 at 11:04 AM
I don’t know…what they’ve already done?
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 11:07 AM
For some, lying about McCain comes as easily to them as breathing. It’s like a sickness, or a mental disorder.
wise_man on August 8, 2008 at 11:11 AM
Sure. Like Obama said he was gonna filibuster the FISA bill and was ABSOLUTELY opposed to drilling at one time. Oh, yeah,…he was going to redo NAFTA and have one on one conversations with Iran without preconditions which suddenly became “preparations”. Like that?
a capella on August 8, 2008 at 11:13 AM
Honestly, as much as I loved the messiah like “The One”, this has to be the first good ad against Barack Obama. It’s clear, and precise.
DanStark on August 8, 2008 at 11:13 AM
That was a good ad. Direct, truthful, and nails what most people are already thinking!
Pam on August 8, 2008 at 11:14 AM
good ad
trailortrash on August 8, 2008 at 11:16 AM
As the AP story noted, wealthy Americans are already cutting back. That means less investment in newer jobs and less purchasing, which means higher prices and lower wages as well as less tax revenue.
This will affect everyone eventually. That’s how economics works.
fossten on August 8, 2008 at 11:18 AM
Good question. It’s a bad idea to cut low income earners’ taxes anyway. Already, only about 50% of Americans pay federal income taxes, which means only about 50% of Americans have a stake in what we spend money on. That’s way too small a number.
Extraneus on August 8, 2008 at 11:19 AM
IT”S ALL THE FAULT OF THE FAILED BUSH ADMINSTRATIONS POLICIES!!!! YEAH, that’s the ticket…
PatriotPete on August 8, 2008 at 11:20 AM
America is, uh, um, no longer….um what it could be.
carbon_footprint on August 8, 2008 at 11:23 AM
That may be true but I rarely lose sleep at night fretting over the thought that the federal government just doesn’t have enough money floating around within it. For I hardly believe that the solution to the excess corruption, waste and sloth in Washington has anything to do with finding ways to put more money in the hands of the federal government. How about we force them to work with less and see how that goes before we spend too much time fussing about how to increase the supply of unaccountable dollars currently being batted around, pocketed and wasted by our wonderful public servants.
Zetterson on August 8, 2008 at 11:27 AM
I don’t want to divert this thread to yet another illegal immigrant issue, but you ARE aware that Obama (and his Soror enablers) is an advocate for OPEN BORDERS.
onlineanalyst on August 8, 2008 at 11:28 AM
Speaking of painful . . .
Listening to Barack and Michelle lecturing us on how rotten this country is and how they are going to require us to do this or that, for the next eight years.
And just imagine the freak show of a cabinet this clown would bring to the table. It will make Reno, Albright, Elders and the other clowns in the Clinton cabinet look like actual adults.
NoDonkey on August 8, 2008 at 11:30 AM
When Obama talks about raising taxes on evil corporations, it probably sounds like a good idea to the average voter. Repubs should make a commercial that informs people that American corporations are already taxed at one of the highest rates in the world, and that is why so many of them leave to go elsewhere. If voters really understood that higher taxes on corporations means higher costs for American consumers and fewer American jobs, there would probably be a lot less people willing to vote Dim.
AZCoyote on August 8, 2008 at 11:35 AM
My taxes are going up if Charlie Rangel’s “Tax Reduction and Reform” bill HR3970. This bill contains many of the specifics Obama has been advocating. Unfortunately for me, the “Reform” portion of the bill means a big tax increase for me. I make well less than $250,000, but the rules changes will cost me several thousand extra per year due to an expansion of the self-employment tax. The media is fixated on income tax rates, but tends to ignore the changes in the application of self-employment/social security taxation.
This is why I keep hearing people say I should anticipate a tax cut at my income level, but my accountant and I know it’s likely to actually be a significant increase when SS taxes are factored in.
forest on August 8, 2008 at 11:36 AM
Sweet.
I loved how they (McCain camp) is moving from “Is he ready to lead?” to “Not ready to lead”. Keep it up.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 8, 2008 at 11:36 AM
Actually, that sounds more like a John Stossel 20/20 episode in the making.
fossten on August 8, 2008 at 11:38 AM
You are just quoting from McCain’s campaign talking points about the corporate tax rates. I’m talking about the second order effects of the increased financial burdens to business from McCain’s other proposals especially when he talks about how he would go about fighting global warming. I’d elaborate but you’d just claim I was making that up to.
Believe it or not, some of us actually look at these issues in detail before posting and are informed voters.
highhopes on August 8, 2008 at 11:38 AM
Pretty much. Which is why some have commented that they would consider a choice of Hillary. Because while we know that she’s bad, she is not as bad and extreme as the Obamas. And I think we have a pretty good idea of who Obama is. Keeping in mind the type of people he’s associated with in the past, your conjecture of his cabinet in think is very accurate.
wise_man on August 8, 2008 at 11:41 AM
Perhaps some of us are over critical about McCain because too many demand we simply shut up and support the man because he is a Republican and, only by default, the nominal conservative in this race. If you all were more honest about McCain’s faults it would be easier for those of us who vote ideology before party affiliation to feel like we are not being shut out by those of your ilk.
highhopes on August 8, 2008 at 11:41 AM
You are entitled to your incorrect opinion, highhopes.
wise_man on August 8, 2008 at 11:45 AM
Yeah, because this blog never posts about McCain’s faults, and there is no disagreement among conservatives about how good McCain is.
jimmy the notable on August 8, 2008 at 11:46 AM
And besides, correcting the record from people like you is not ‘demand we simply shut up’ as is the most recent talking point to use against people who have paid attention and have come to their own conclusion. And that conclusion is that in a political contest that is now down to two people, the republican and the democrat, that we would rather not see the democrat win. This is in no way, shape, matter or form being ‘party affiliation’ again as your predictable talking points standard reply conveys.
Lame. Old. Tired. Get some new talking points, will you?
wise_man on August 8, 2008 at 11:49 AM
His policies? Huh?
I thought that Obama was just one Senator out of 100? Never minding the House and the Presidents veto pen. Isn’t he suppose to be a junior senator who has only been in the senate a short time and never accomplished anything? What happened to that? Now it’s his policies? His policies? His policies have meant higher taxes for most Americans? Whoa Nellie!
Are we completely in the Twilight Zone now? This is getting beyond ridiculous.
MB4 on August 8, 2008 at 11:51 AM
I think that is right. I don’t think though that he wants to cut my taxes by anything like 25-35%, but then, of course, I don’t give him “campaign contributions” and am not “special”.
MB4 on August 8, 2008 at 11:56 AM
Corporations pay millions of dollars in taxes, and a cut from 35 to 25 will still allow the government to take in millions, and then free up more of the corporations taxes to put back into the companies that hire employees and contribute to the economy, MB4.
But don’t sell yourself short. You are, very .. “special.”(needs)
wise_man on August 8, 2008 at 11:58 AM
Funny, that’s what I heard, but I am sure it’s all lies and you must just be another LYING LIAR TELLING LYING LIES ABOUT JOHN MCCAIN! You should have that MDS checked out.
MB4 on August 8, 2008 at 12:00 PM
Racist?
5 seconds in there is an image of O, barely in the screen on the right, another black man, toward the middle, and a white, blond haired woman on the left.
Labamigo on August 8, 2008 at 12:01 PM
Chicken entrails? Could be. Might work.
MB4 on August 8, 2008 at 12:02 PM
Has nothing to do about corporate taxes, and includes the same spam that misterpeasea likes to post.
Quite “special” again.
wise_man on August 8, 2008 at 12:04 PM
Ad tagline:
Excellent. Expect to see a lot more of this.
Gilda on August 8, 2008 at 12:07 PM
LYING LIAR TELLING LYING LIES ABOUT JOHN MCCAIN!!!
John McCain is much to smart to fall for that Al Gore crap!
Isn’t he?
No wait now, I remember.
Never mind.
MB4 on August 8, 2008 at 12:07 PM
Rnagel’s tax bill (HR3970) that I mentioned above is probably the best place to start. Some form of that will likely become law if Obama is elected. It will mean a tax increase for me.
forest on August 8, 2008 at 12:08 PM
Enjoy your fun. Good bye.
wise_man on August 8, 2008 at 12:09 PM
Right, cause there’s no difference between corporate taxes and carbon taxes and cap and trade proposals.
Sheesh.
Um, reducing a tax from 35%
Buy Danish on August 8, 2008 at 12:13 PM
Dang, I was in the middle of writing my comment when a marverick finger hit the comment button or something.
Here is what I was trying to say to MB4:
Um, reducing a tax rate from 35% to 25% is not the same thing as cutting taxes 25% to 35%, but you knew that, right?
Buy Danish on August 8, 2008 at 12:16 PM
Over critical?
Damn right you are over critical! You are nothing compared to him! He is a true conservative in the mold of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan!
McCain’s faults?
He has no faults, you scum with MDS! He is a GOD!
If Obama wins he will destroy all life in the solar system and it will be all your fault!
MB4 on August 8, 2008 at 12:16 PM
Parting is such sweat sorrow.
MB4 on August 8, 2008 at 12:19 PM
Woops, looks like you struck a nerve with that one MB4. I guess, for McCain supports, any mention of his “thoughts” about Global Warming is a deal breaker. I’m going to have to make a note of that.
Zetterson on August 8, 2008 at 12:21 PM
That would be “McCain supporters” from 12:21 post
Zetterson on August 8, 2008 at 12:21 PM
Whatever. I don’t think that he is cutting mine by 25.57% (going from 35% to 25% is a cut of 25.57%)
MB4 on August 8, 2008 at 12:24 PM
If McCain wasn’t willing to tax the poor out into the street from the poor house, this message would be more effective. If he hadn’t voted against the tax cuts, it would be interesting. Yet, he likes high taxes too. He likes the destruction that will come to our economy after the McCain Carbon Cap and Trade tax prices food out of reach of the poor and the middle class alike.
As an aside, McCain is a hypocrite on just about every issue. It’s a shame that some apolitical third party didn’t get to make the campaign advertisements. The ad would go like this.
“Obama wants to raise taxes on people making as little as $42,000 a year. If he got his way, then taxes on that group would return to where they were before the tax cuts of 2001 and 2005 took effect, which McCain voted against.”
“Obama the Celebrity isn’t ready to lead according to the McCain camp who demanded that everyone on his side forget his voting against the tax cuts and his class warfare statements.”
“I’m John McCain and I paid for this message.”
Yes, it’s a shame that we don’t have some sort of truth in advertising rule. Of course, if we did. Then the truth of how these two candidates are really only about an inch apart on most of the issues would come out, and the Nation would enter a psychological depress that it may never come out of.
Snake307 on August 8, 2008 at 12:28 PM
Don’t just make a note, make a fable, or modify one. That’s what I do.
“What’s this?” thought John McCain. “I can feel nothing warmer at all! That is terrible. Am I stupid? Am I a flat-earther? Am I a denier? Am I not fit to be President? That would be the most dreadful thing that could happen to me. “Oh, it is very hot!” McCain said aloud. “It has my highest approbation.” And McCain nodded in a contented way, and gazed outside, for he would not say that he felt no Global Warming. The whole entourage that he had with him looked and looked, and felt no warming, any more than the rest; but, like John McCain, they said, “It is so warm!” and counseled him to always say that he felt warm when he was out in public. “It is warm, hot even!” went from mouth to mouth. On all sides there seemed to be general warming, and John McCain gave Al Gore the title of Imperial Master of Global Warming Science.
So John McCain went in procession, and every one in the streets said, “How incomparable warm it is! What a warm day it is!” No one would let it be perceived that he could not feel warming, for that would have shown that he was not fit for his office, or was very stupid or a flat-earther or a denier. No day of John McCain’s had ever been as warm as this one.
“But I’m freezing my ass off out here!” a little child cried out at last. “Just hear what that innocent says!” said the father: and one whispered to another what the child had said. “But it is cold out here!” said the whole American people at length. That touched John McCain, for it seemed to him that they were right; but the thought within himself was, “I must go through with feeling all the Global Warming. I do not dare to do otherwise” And so he held himself a little higher, and his aides held on tighter than ever, and proclaimed the Global Warming which did not exist at all.
MB4 on August 8, 2008 at 12:31 PM
For those who see no difference between McCain and the two Democrats, this serves as a reminder that while McCain drifts to the middle on some issues, a large chasm exists between the nominees that will face off in November.
wise_man on August 8, 2008 at 12:31 PM
wise_man on August 8, 2008 at 12:32 PM
Well now that was sure a short good bye.
MB4 on August 8, 2008 at 12:36 PM
So you are still under the impression that you were appointed blog moderator? Maybe you were and I just never got the official memo.
BTW, this thread is about McCain -
MB4 on August 8, 2008 at 12:39 PM
I know what you are trying to do, and it’s not going to work.
wise_man on August 8, 2008 at 12:43 PM
You’re ever earning any McCain points is what is not going to work. You just cause more criticism to go his way. Don’t you get that by now?
Are you really working for Obama?
MB4 on August 8, 2008 at 12:46 PM
Good question. It’s a bad idea to cut low income earners’ taxes anyway. Already, only about 50% of Americans pay federal income taxes, which means only about 50% of Americans have a stake in what we spend money on. That’s way too small a number.
Extraneus on August 8, 2008 at 11:19 AM
Bull*hit. the fact that the government gets 3 TRILLION in tax rev says American of all classes are paying to many taxes. The poor and lower middle class still must pay sales tax, medicare and social security tax. Sine the poor spends almost 100% of their pay. They pay on avg 15% taxes. Throw in the gasoline tax, and other hidden taxes and the problem is that ALL AMERICIANS are over taxed.
unseen on August 8, 2008 at 12:53 PM
Just stop the lies! McCain is so closely aligned with the Democrats he practically has a seat on their side of the aisle. He occasionally drifts to the right over Iraq but please stop with the lie that McCain is a conservative. Even McCain stopped calling himself a Reagan Conservative after the comment drew more laughs than applause.
highhopes on August 8, 2008 at 12:58 PM
wise_man, talk about spam. You go out of your way to post that same debunked ratings garbage everytime people begin to express legitimate critisism about McCain’s liberal positions.
Zetterson on August 8, 2008 at 1:15 PM
I fully expect a Billy Jeff moment as in 1993 when after he said he wouldn’t raise taxes on the middle class came out with I really tired but there is just no way i can’t raise taxes.
jukin on August 8, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Posting a link to a hotair article on McCain that lists and categorizes his actions as a senator – on a page about McCain on hotair that directly quotes the author’s comment – to debunk another commenter’s opinion that is without merit is not spam, Zetterson.
There are a ton of legitimate criticisms about McCain. This claim based on emotion, not fact is not one of them.
wise_man on August 8, 2008 at 1:22 PM
Well, that’s gracious of you – he was only the leader in the Senate regarding the surge.
But I guess that’s counter to MB4’s “conservative” position on Iraq, which was exactly the save as Nancy Pelosi’s.
And hey, we couldn’t have had a rock hard conservative like Mitt Romney as a candidate if you had your way, and we know that a guy who made universal healthcare a reality, with the aid of Democrats, is another perfect conservative.
You keep staying consistent, you anti-McCainiacs, you’re about as predictable as a turd in the punchbowl and twice as persuasive.
NoDonkey on August 8, 2008 at 1:22 PM
No, what makes this spam is we’ve been through this before. We’ve explained to you before that the ratings system does nothing but tabulate a series of votes in which each unimportant issue carries with it the same weight as the few very important issues facing our nation right now. On the issue that actually matter, McCain is a liberal. That is all I care about.
But whats the difference? I’m sure you’ll just go ahead and post the same meaningless spam as soon as this same debate crops up in another thread.
Zetterson on August 8, 2008 at 1:29 PM
Well thank you NoDonkey, I’ll take that as a compliment. Afterall, you just never can guess whats going to pop out next from that little black mouth of Mr Hankey’s. And lord knows, when he speaks, we listen.
Zetterson on August 8, 2008 at 1:32 PM
“On the issue that actually matter, McCain is a liberal. That is all I care about.”
So national defense, doesn’t matter?
NoDonkey on August 8, 2008 at 1:33 PM
What’s this “we’ve” you speaking of? Over the last few weeks, I have been commenting with about the same 3 or 4 people on a more regular basis than you. As a matter of fact, I don’t recognize your name at all.
I’ve got my suspicions about who this “we” thing is, and not individuals making comments all by themselves. It’s one of the things that I’ve been prevented from commenting on. Talk about wanting to ’shut people up’ and free speech and all that…
wise_man on August 8, 2008 at 1:38 PM
Many things about McCain trouble me from a national defense perspective. For instance, he doesn’t give a crap about who is and is not in our country right now. On Sept 9th 2001 a couple highjackers were stopped for speeding. Unfortunately for everybody who lost their lives 2 days later it was against the law for the cops to inquire as to the current legal status of the driver and the car’s passengers. I wonder if those innocent people who counted on the governemt to keep them safe would be alive today if not for politicians like McCain sacraficing national security for fear of being labeled racist? Or fear of losing the latino vote in Arizona?
Don’t get me started on McCain’s position in regards to what our military interrogaters can and cannot do when attempting to extract information from murdering scum for the purposes of national security. God forbid we shine lights too brightly or play loud music or Ahhhhhh! Waterboard! The horror. I am haunted everyday by the fact that KSM gave up a “treasuretrove” of information after he got waterboarded. I have trouble sleeping at night because I know I should have sided with John McCain and sacraficed more American lives so as not to be to mean to the man who plotted 9/11.
Zetterson on August 8, 2008 at 1:45 PM
Now I’m just hurt! But whatever wise_man, the next time this subject comes up and you decide to spam again, you’ll remember me… I hope.
Zetterson on August 8, 2008 at 1:50 PM
Sounds like the policy or a sanctuary city created by Gavin Newsom, or Richard Daley. And while not in a sanctuary city, I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that the ACLU had something to do with that. And if the cops couldn’t communicate with the feds, you could also thank Jamie Gorelick
wise_man on August 8, 2008 at 1:52 PM
Whatever, he’s not a liberal on national defense.
If it weren’t for McCain, it’s possible that the surge never would have happened, which the Democrat’s dream of a chaotic withdrawal, under fire, would have became a reality.
That was not a position he took because the media liked it, or because he wanted to get along with the Democrats, but because it was the right thing to do.
If the surge had failed, it would have been the end of McCain’s career, so perhaps you would have had your mythical “conservative” candidate.
Who would have lost 50 states to Obama or Clinton, due to the complete disaster in the Middle East. You think the Republican brand is tarnished now . . .
NoDonkey on August 8, 2008 at 1:53 PM
Next time you make a claim that is not based on fact that is meant to mislead others, remember me. Because I am probably going to reply to your comment and refute what is factually incorrect.
wise_man on August 8, 2008 at 1:54 PM
I think you left out John McCain. Don’t forget about him!
Zetterson on August 8, 2008 at 1:55 PM
Duly noted, but which might you be referring to?
Zetterson on August 8, 2008 at 1:56 PM
I love the coherent celebrity theme, also. This campaign is finally coming around.
DaveS on August 8, 2008 at 1:57 PM
Had John McCain made any part of Arizona a sanctuary for illegals, Zetterson?
Has John McCain been involved with an ACLU lawsuit against the government to prevent them from asking the legal status of suspicious people stopped while in a car, Zetterson.
And Zetterson, did John McCain co-author the memo with Jamie Gorelick to build a wall between agencies of the government to prevent them from sharing vital information that could have led to the capture of the 9/11 hijackers?
Because I would really like to see any facts you’d want to present that would show as much.
wise_man on August 8, 2008 at 1:58 PM
Thats quite an argument there NoDonkey. Completely gloss over the substance of what I wrote, counter it with a general statement and then move on to an unproveable “maybe”. Did you learn that tactic in debate class?
In terms of national defense John McCain is a horrible candidate. See, two can play at that game. But wait! I know your next move! You are going to say something about how Obama’s worse. Like a turd in a punchbowl.
Zetterson on August 8, 2008 at 1:59 PM
It wasn’t a general statement at all, Zetterson, it was specifically about the surge.
Winning the war in Iraq is the most important issue of our time. Irrelevant details regarding interrogation techniques are not.
Don’t worry, I won’t say anything bad about your beloved Obama.
Interesting how you so-called “conservatives” turn every negative thread regarding your beloved Obama, into an anti-McCain thread.
Why do you continue to slog the hard road here? I’m sure if you went over to Daily Kos, you’d find plenty of friends there who agree with your desire for McCain to lose to Obama.
NoDonkey on August 8, 2008 at 2:04 PM
Ok, how about that little bill that McCain was attempting to push through (contrary to the will of the public) with his good buddy Ted Kennedy? Do you remember that? You know, the one that would have turned the entire country into a defacto sanctuary city. If you want to turn this discussion into a dissection of McCain/Kennedy thats perfectly fine with me. If you don’t remember I think we’ve all been down that road before as well. But seeing as some of us are a bit prone to forget I’m perfectly happy to dig up the past again if you wish.
Zetterson on August 8, 2008 at 2:06 PM
Unfortunately, it looks like the McCain people have decided to pretty much just lie about Obama’s plans. There is nothing supporting the idea that Obama wants to raise taxes on someone making $42k a year.
DaveS on August 8, 2008 at 2:10 PM
Don’t worry, I won’t say anything bad about your beloved
Well not exactly. What really disturbs me is how little McCain and Obama disagree with eachother. Sure, sometimes it’s hard to tell because they both lie but once you open your eyes it is clear that the only true difference between the two is their previous positions on the war in Iraq. McCain was right about the surge, Obama was wrong. Now they both agree that the troops should be able to begin withdrawing in their first terms as president. And they sure both understand the importance of lettus pickers. McCain may come out and try to say things conservative sounding now and you are welcome to believe him if you like. I know better though. He’s lied to me too many times before. He’s stabbed me in the back too many times before. You guys have fun at the voting booth this year. Unfortunately there are no candidates worthy of my vote.
Zetterson on August 8, 2008 at 2:13 PM
“Unfortunately there are no candidates worthy of my vote.”
This is worse than the day I found out that there is no Santa Claus.
NoDonkey on August 8, 2008 at 2:23 PM
Well, on that we agree.
Zetterson on August 8, 2008 at 2:39 PM
OT – I thought the ad was pretty good and I am not getting tired of them.
brtex on August 8, 2008 at 4:00 PM
You are the one that is the only person here brining up McCain/Kennedy. Not me.
Again, like I said to MB4, i know what you are trying to do. And it isn’t going to work.
wise_man on August 8, 2008 at 4:13 PM
How about John “Axman” McCain vs Barack “Taxman” Obama?
Connie on August 8, 2008 at 8:18 PM
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