Beware the … Garbage Police!
posted at 9:50 am on August 5, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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San Francisco may soon deputize its garbage collectors and have them inspecting refuse before hauling it away. Residents who fail to compost food waste could find themselves fined a thousand dollars and without garbage service, under a new proposal from Mayor Gavin Newsom:
Garbage collectors would inspect San Francisco residents’ trash to make sure pizza crusts aren’t mixed in with chip bags or wine bottles under a proposal by Mayor Gavin Newsom.
And if residents or businesses don’t separate the coffee grounds from the newspapers, they would face fines of up to $1,000 and eventually could have their garbage service stopped.
The plan to require proper sorting of refuse would be the nation’s first mandatory recycling and composting law. It would direct garbage collectors to inspect the trash to make sure it is put into the right blue, black or green bin, according to a draft of the legislation prepared by the city’s Department of the Environment.
The program is designed to limit the amount of food and foliage that goes into the city-contracted landfill in Alameda County, where the refuse takes up costly space and decomposes to form methane, one of the most potent of greenhouse gases. It will also help San Francisco, which city officials say currently diverts 70 percent of its waste from landfills, achieve a goal set by the Board of Supervisors to divert 75 percent by 2010 and have zero waste by 2020.
This stupidity extends to several levels. First, let’s look at the practical implications of such a regulatory regime. Trash collection requires efficient use of vehicles and personnel. If sanitation workers have to stop and inspect every barrel and dumpster for compliance, it will make the entire process much more labor intensive and require an expansion of collection vehicles. Not only would the cost be prohibitive, but the increase in idling vehicles waiting for inspections to end before moving to the next stop would actually make emissions even worse than before.
Next, how does one enforce compliance in multi-tenant dwellings? Apartments and condos usually use communal dumpsters rather than individual barrels, again for efficiency. If the garbage is unsorted, who gets fined — the tenants or the landlords? Neither one could be proven responsible for the misdemeanor in court. If landlords risk fines and suspension of service because of tenant behavior they cannot possibly control, or even trace, then expect property values to take a dive while people sell of their assets in real estate.
Philosophically speaking, this represents a gross intrusion (in more than one sense of the word) of government into private life. Recycling plans work because they’re voluntary; most people don’t mind a simple sorting process involving one bin for refuse and another for recyclables. If they are required to start using three, four, or five bins for sorting their trash upon threat of prosecution, the good will compliance will end and people will stop recycling altogether. And wait until the municipal courts get flooded with the accused looking to clear their good names and avoid the $1,000 fine. Plus, can the garbage collectors even levy those citations without being sworn officers of the law or at least employed by law enforcement?
It’s yet another nutty idea from America’s leading source of them. I’d give it even odds of passage. (via The Corner)
Update: This reminded me of the excellent Penn & Teller Bulls**t! show in which they debunked recycling as beneficial for all but aluminum cans. Here is the most applicable part of that episode to today’s story (not safe for work):
If you haven’t watched the show before, you owe it to yourself to give it a try.
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I don’t separate a damn thing. Why? Because the local landfill has a recycling center where people are paid to do that. If everyone around here were to start separating everything, we would be putting people out of work. But then, isn’t that what just about every libtard policy does anyway?
Kowboy on August 5, 2008 at 10:52 AM
What’s the next step in “mandatory recycling” maybe this is on the docket for us in the near future.
Over.
1GooDDaDDy on August 5, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Bomb, bomb, bomb…bomb bomb ‘cisco…
MadisonConservative on August 5, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Funny how all those countries being thrown around as environmental examples – Canada, Britain, as well as the EU are all pretty much big government (borderline Socialist) countries politically/culturally.
What’s the standard of health care in those countries?
What’s the unemployment rate in those countries?
What’s the level of personal freedom in those countries?
What’s the total tax burden in those countries?
But they’ve got a KILLER recycling program…
How attractive are those countries now?
catmman on August 5, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Where in Virginia do you live? I’m in Spotsylvania and recycling isn’t mandatory here. Of course I recycle everything. I put it all into a plastic trash bag and throw it in the landfill. That puts it right back into the ground where it came from in the first place. I’m thinking about future generations. The landfills of today will be the oil deposits of tomorrow.
Oldnuke on August 5, 2008 at 10:54 AM
Same here in Richmond (or Henrico County to be precise).
The will supply the green bins but it is not a mandatory program.
BacaDog on August 5, 2008 at 10:56 AM
It’s apparently volo down here too. Maybe near DC it’s mandatory, which wouldn’t surprise me.
Anna on August 5, 2008 at 10:57 AM
Dave Rywall:
Thanks for your enlightenment, Captain Incrementalism!
Liberal idiot sheep, with your pompous insistence that everyone follow in your lockstep, at least keep the sane, intelligent individuals like me aware of WHERE not to live. Thanks for your public service.
Mandatory recycling? I will fight it just on principle. Wanna make it optional, you may have a chance.
tickleddragon on August 5, 2008 at 10:57 AM
Let’s see if I understand this?
San Francisco is going to deputize garbage collectors to levy fines for people not complying with their “laden bin” law?
Clear plastic bottles in one bin. Check.
Color plastic bottles in another. Check.
Opaque plastic bottle in another bin. Check.
Clear glass in yet another bin. Check.
Brown glass and green glass in yet another pair of bins. Check and double Check.
Newsprint in yet another bin. Check.
Cardboard in yet another bin. Check.
Dry refuse in a separate bin. Check.
Wet refuse in another bin. Check.
Somebody is making a killing in the Bin industry out there!!! (Will probably get hit with an excess-profits tax. Then who is going to make the bins?)
(Oh, by the way…which bin is for Gavin Newsom?)
coldwarrior on August 5, 2008 at 10:59 AM
Right after college, I lived in Alexandria for about 4 years. I’ve since moved back North, but yeah…I just had 4 paper bags lined up, plus the regular trash. What a pain in the neck it was to have to separate everything.
I recycle as well…all the cans, bottles, aluminum, etc goes in that blue bin. But I’ll be damned if I’m going to ever start separating food from the regular trash.
I figure, get some diapers and squirt some chocolate sauce on ‘em, leave ‘em on top of the garbage in the bag, and no one will be going through it.
JetBoy on August 5, 2008 at 11:01 AM
A law like this will simply increase the amount of food waste which gets run down the garbage disposal in the sink. Of course, if the methane coming out of the compost pile is so bad for the environment, maybe running the veggie scraps down the sink will help save us all.
glendower on August 5, 2008 at 11:01 AM
Sunnyvale, CA was using four or five bins twenty years ago when my mother lived there. San Francisco may be the most notorious place in the Bay area, but there are half a dozen counties which vie for the title.
burt on August 5, 2008 at 11:01 AM
Which bin do the bins go in?
BacaDog on August 5, 2008 at 11:01 AM
People won’t comply. They’ll just start using public dumpsters.
fossten on August 5, 2008 at 11:03 AM
“Which bin do the bins go in?”
The Bin Bin.
Terrorists go in the Bin Laden.
San Fran pols go in the Loony Bin.
NoDonkey on August 5, 2008 at 11:05 AM
I think this will actually make people eat out more often. The refuse is the restaurants then. Of course, that will ultimately make dining out more expensive.
Here’s your government at work.
tickleddragon on August 5, 2008 at 11:06 AM
Bingo.
RushBaby on August 5, 2008 at 11:07 AM
All those plastic bins made with petroleum derivatives, how awful.
“NO BLOOD FOR BINS”!
Bishop on August 5, 2008 at 11:10 AM
There is no such thing. Dumpsters are owned by private companies. It is a crime to dump your refuse into another business’s bin. Such infractions can bring hufe fines and jail time in some areas.
Plus people don’t really want to walk around or drive around with TRASH in sunny California. San Franciscans are sheep. They’ll do whatever Gavin Newsom commands.
The Race Card on August 5, 2008 at 11:12 AM
I understand now. But you didn’t actually live in Virginia, you lived in Northern Virginia. In other words You lived in D.C. :-)
Oldnuke on August 5, 2008 at 11:12 AM
How about public trash bins sitting along walks in every strip mall and shopping center?
Oldnuke on August 5, 2008 at 11:14 AM
Why is this different than having parking fines? Fining for recycling has a real effect on tangible goals. It is good for the environment, and it saves money. This is far more justifiable than many other fines that exist, like having grass that is too brown.
dave742 on August 5, 2008 at 11:15 AM
Bomb a US city?
Fucking idiot. I guess the innocents, children, service members and other people are expendible per your disgust with a civic ruling.
Keeping with your logic, I recommend you use a .380 to hunt and kill your headlice.
The Race Card on August 5, 2008 at 11:15 AM
What’s the difference in cost between the fine for dumping in a private dumpster, and the fine for not sorting your trash properly. It may be more cost effective to take the risk to put in the dumpsters.
The simple fact is, people will find a way around this sort of government idiocy.
tickleddragon on August 5, 2008 at 11:17 AM
Those are not dumpsters. A dumpster holds a whole lot of trash, maybe even bodies. A trash can like at the mall or bus stop or in front of your rehab center is necessary for public sanitation.
But you go put your household trash in one of those. You’d look like the fool you sound like you are.
Read the thread. You’re dismissed.
The Race Card on August 5, 2008 at 11:17 AM
Again, it’s the MANDITORY nature of this that makes it less than palatable.
tickleddragon on August 5, 2008 at 11:18 AM
Some people are dying to disagree with me just because of my name.
The Race Card on August 5, 2008 at 11:18 AM
Others just think I’m a prick.
The Race Card on August 5, 2008 at 11:19 AM
Allah, is that you? And just who are you to dismiss anyone?
tickleddragon on August 5, 2008 at 11:19 AM
Of course they will. My question is why is it necessary to circumvent stupid laws. Why don’t we just elect sane people to office?
Oldnuke on August 5, 2008 at 11:19 AM
I completely agree.
tickleddragon on August 5, 2008 at 11:20 AM
Personally I just think you’re an idiot. But since the feeling is mutual I guess we’re even.
Oldnuke on August 5, 2008 at 11:21 AM
hahahaha
Seriously, this would work. What
garbage mansanitation engineer is going to go through trash with that in it?inviolet on August 5, 2008 at 11:22 AM
tickleddragon:
Putting money in a parking meter is mandatory, If you do not do it, you get fined.
dave742 on August 5, 2008 at 11:23 AM
Oh, I forgot to add “I don’t think you’re a prick.” See if you can figure out why.
Oldnuke on August 5, 2008 at 11:24 AM
“What garbage man sanitation engineer is going to go through trash with that in it?”
We all know how dedicated political appointees of Democrat administrations are, I’m quite sure that question will never come up.
Because the flunkies appointed to these full time jobs will actually “work” 2 hours a week or less.
Never fear. The incompetence and laziness of the government worker will save us from the police state liberals want to impose on us.
NoDonkey on August 5, 2008 at 11:24 AM
Yes, but I also have the choice to use another form of transportation OR park somewhere else. That’s not manditory.
tickleddragon on August 5, 2008 at 11:26 AM
I used to agree with you all the time, every time. Intelligent posts, great points, great sense of humor. Like a few other great posters here, looked forward to seeing your take on things actually. Then some while back your tone changed noticeably and I wondered what was wrong. Then I saw you post to someone that something had changed in your life to change your mood to more crabby, or something to that effect…Don’t remember exactly, and sorry if I got it wrong.
But I do notice that you are much more combative and personnally accusing of people, not to mention you never used to call people “f****** idiots” before.
Guess I just liked your comments a lot better before. Sorry if I offend.
inviolet on August 5, 2008 at 11:28 AM
I know! Is it because race cards the opposite of a prick?
thekingtut on August 5, 2008 at 11:28 AM
They’ll throw their trash in dumpsters, it happens, and you can’t entirely stop it, some people take the risk of the fine. But more likely, some will start throwing it in abandoned lots, that’s happening in Britain already.
doubleplusundead on August 5, 2008 at 11:29 AM
“Like a few other great posters here, looked forward to seeing your take on things actually” should be “Looked forward to seeing your take, along with the take of a few other great posters here”. Sorry.
inviolet on August 5, 2008 at 11:29 AM
Exactly! That was one of the more ridiculous comparisons I’ve seen.
Oldnuke on August 5, 2008 at 11:29 AM
personnallypersonally. *sigh* darn fingers.inviolet on August 5, 2008 at 11:30 AM
NoDonkey on August 5, 2008 at 11:24 AM –
“incompetence and laziness”…this is that aspect that the
liberalssocialists like Obama and such just don’t understand, and if they do understand then we are indeed in peril.Doesn’t anyone remember the wonderful productivity of the East Germans or the Soviets? Didn’t exactly save them from the police state, and it most certainly didn’t help them develop thriving economies either.
coldwarrior on August 5, 2008 at 11:33 AM
That’s my point as well. Beyond voluntary/involuntary, why is recycling so important, if it turns out to cost more, and actually means very little, if any to the environment?
As you point out Cat, recycling paper is actually more harmful for the environment, than simply planting two trees for every one that is cut down.
It is so sad that in today’s world, common sense isn’t so common anymore!
Steven
Steven on August 5, 2008 at 11:37 AM
Putting money in a parking meter is A) a choice (I have other parking and transportation options), and B) dirt cheap. Putting a quater, or even a buck in the meter costs me, well a quarter or a buck.
I bill my time at $40-$60 per hour. Let’s split that down the middle and say $50. If I have to fuss with my trash for 15 minutes every day, my compliance costs are now $175/week. On top of which, my property taxes will now have to pay for extra trucks, and extra personnel to inspect my garbage.
Wouldn’t it be a lot cheaper and less intrusive just to hire the extra guys and have them do the separating?
Farmer_Joe on August 5, 2008 at 11:38 AM
Oh, here’s a good one to show the futility of trying to keep people from not using dumpsters illegally. I remember someone telling me this story, a man who owned eight cats in Old Forge(near Scranton/Wilkes-Barre), used to take garbage bags full of kitty litter and throw them out of the windows of his moving car onto the roads.
It took police months of surveillance to nail the guy. One guy. He threw hundreds of bags of kitty litter before he was caught. That was Scranton Wilkes-Barre area, think about a major city like San Francisco.
doubleplusundead on August 5, 2008 at 11:40 AM
“But more likely, some will start throwing it in abandoned lots, that’s happening in Britain already.”
Exactly – I live in a county that has no dump. None.
And lots of apartment buildings.
When I got a new mattress, I had to spend three hours and lotsa gas getting rid of the old one in a legal manner. And had to pay for the right to do so.
Guess where most used mattresses end up? On the side of the road. As road hazards.
Which is exactly what will happen to the trash in San Fran.
NoDonkey on August 5, 2008 at 11:42 AM
Good ol San Francisco. Here we have a city who thinks nothing about releasing a drug dealing douchebag gang member felon back on the street, and yet doesn’t seem to give a rat’s ass when he murders three innocent men (the Bolognas) and subsequently destroys a family.
And yet the city nitwits threaten to fine citizens who refuse to sort their garbage. Let San Francisco be an object lesson to the rest of the country as to what Totalitarianism will look like. You’re getting a sneak peek America. Wake up!
greasywrench on August 5, 2008 at 11:45 AM
I would just keep piling my trash out by the curb, even after they stopped picking it up. I would make the place look like the Middle East, till I either got to jail, for them not doing a service I paid for, or they do pick it up.
WoosterOh on August 5, 2008 at 11:46 AM
“incompetence and laziness”…this is that aspect that the liberals socialists like Obama and such just don’t understand, and if they do understand then we are indeed in peril.”
That’s because none of them have ever actually spent time where the work gets “done” in government.
Loudmouthed politicians like Obama can lecture us on how “government will do this”, or “government will do that”. But they aren’t responsible for the actual work, nor are they responsible for supervising the individuals responsible for the actual work.
The people who actually have to do the work are there largely because they like the benefits and because the work is much easier than it is in the private sector. The hours are good. The vacation is long. The retirement is good. That’s the lure.
And most of them spend the majority of their time scheming on how to get out of doing anything productive whatsoever.
If Obama thinks these people are capable of “changing” anything, he’s in for an education.
NoDonkey on August 5, 2008 at 11:46 AM
Hey, man, I live in San Francisco, along with many other people who don’t happen to agree with the idiotic policies that our local government officials cook up. Speaking as potential collateral damage in your little retarded fantasy of political violence, I invite you to kindly get bent.
Well, that’s at least one point that RaceCard and I agree on.
Right. Because loading your trash into your car to drive around to a dumping location and having the bags leak food waste liquid onto the upholstery (not too many people own pickup trucks here; they’re too impractical to park in tight spaces) is so much easier than separating it into different bins.
Look: I think the enforced trash-separation policy is ludicrous. But people are mostly going to go along with it, unfortunately. I doubt the trash collectors are going to be all that diligent about reporting any but the most egregious “violators,” since at least the ones who pick up the trash for my building can’t even be bothered to pick up the stray cans and bottles that bounce out of the bin into the driveway when they load them onto the truck.
Alex_SF on August 5, 2008 at 11:47 AM
LOL
I once was dispatched to pick up a truck load of aluminum cans being sent in for re-cycling. The cans were partially compressed and put in huge plastic bags. These two guys were dragging those bags into my trailer. I made the offhand remark to another employee who was also watching, “What a waste of time”. His answer was, “Not really, if those two were not doing this they would be unemployed.”
That’s when I heard the sounds of a wind chime in my head.
(ding, ding, ding-a-ling, a ling)
Can you guess which state? Does your state add a 10 cent charge for every beverage container that adds $1.20 to each 12 pack. The $1.20 that is ‘refunded’ to you when you take those 12 beverage containers back to the place where you originally purchased them?
Personally, I refuse to purchase anything that requires that I return the container to the store once that container is empty.
rockhauler on August 5, 2008 at 11:49 AM
It’s not mandatory here in NoVA. The city does give everyone a ‘cyclin’ bin, but we’re not required to use it. And the city has a list of what types of plastics can be recycled and what can’t. I do make an effort to recycle, and am annoyed when the garbage people haul off my meticulously sorted and separated paper and cardboard with the regular trash. Good luck enforcing garbage laws when the collectors can’t even get the right stuff.
4shoes on August 5, 2008 at 11:51 AM
There’s 1-to-1 enforecement for parking. A vehicle is in a stall, and if the meter’s expired a ticket is issued. Nobody can move my car into an expired stall. It’s also highly unlikely that a meter can be tampered with to create a false “expired” reading when the parking fee is actually paid up.
With the proposed trash law there’s several enforcement problems. For instance, last week one of my neighbors dropped a bag of dog s—- in our empty trash can after trash pick-up. Occassionally, neighborhood kids drop cans or bottles in as they walk by. Under SF’s rules who gets fined? There’s too many opportunities for the wrong person to get fined, not to mention penalties that are disproportionate to the “crime” (such as a Senior Citizen getting fined hundreds of $ for dropping a ketchup bottle in the wrong bin.)
Perfesser on August 5, 2008 at 11:55 AM
“am annoyed when the garbage people haul off my meticulously sorted and separated paper and cardboard with the regular trash.”
If the guys running the garbage trucks can’t be trusted, I ask, then who can we trust?
NoDonkey on August 5, 2008 at 11:56 AM
Pro tip: Never make the fines so high that its cheaper to just litter.
BelchSpeak on August 5, 2008 at 11:56 AM
rockhauler on August 5, 2008 at 11:49 AM –
Recently, there were several arrests in Toledo of people who would collect cans all over Ohio and drive over to Michigan to “refund” them. Most major beverage companies have cans made at a central factory, so Ohio cans most often carry that 10-cent deposit label on them. To the tune of several thousands of dollars, a pile of money, these guys were collecting cans from any available source and taking them to Michigan. Illegal? Yep. Taking advantage of the law? Yep.
Ya know, bad law, even if passed for all the right reasons, is still bad law.
coldwarrior on August 5, 2008 at 11:58 AM
No, he didn’t. Get your facts straight. San Francisco has been a “sanctuary city” for nearly 20 years now. Newsom can fairly be blamed for perpetuating the policy, but to say he initiated it is inaccurate.
Alex_SF on August 5, 2008 at 12:00 PM
The only benefit that is gained from recycling is to those who like to feel good about themselves by forcing others to engage in worthless acts.
MarkTheGreat on August 5, 2008 at 12:02 PM
Yeah, BS is a really good show. I keep hearing that too…that really, only aluminum recycling is cost-efficient and effective.
JetBoy on August 5, 2008 at 12:03 PM
And what about littering fines? Why can’t I throw my garbage in the street without getting fined? Are we already living in a fascist country? Maybe you’ll say that littering costs the city money because they have to clean it up. It’s the same with recycling. People who don’t recycle also cost the city money.
tickleddragon:
Creating garbage is not mandatory. Nobody is forcing you to create garbage. Stop creating garbage and you have no worries about fines, same as if you don’t drive a car.
dave742 on August 5, 2008 at 12:04 PM
On a national scale, aluminum and scrap steel (and copper now and then) are currently the only recyclables that earn money for the recyclers and the companies that use the recycled materials. The rest? Have to be subsidized. By whom? Us.
coldwarrior on August 5, 2008 at 12:06 PM
The video:
Evidence Exhibit #1,836,234,622 Liberal/Socialist/Democrat is a mental illness.
franksalterego on August 5, 2008 at 12:08 PM
Containers sold in Michigan have bar codes that identify the container as being sold in Michigan. Thus identifying foreign containers.
Retail stores have purchases specialized machinery that scan the bar code, compress the container, and print a refund slip. Those machines will reject foreign containers.
(More cost to the retailer, opportunity to the machine vendor.)
Given the cost of collection, and the cost of getting those cans delivered to a point where they could be converted to cash, I’m wondering how they did it?
Your point is well taken, however. Any law, and people will try to take advantage of it, as long as there is some benefit.
rockhauler on August 5, 2008 at 12:09 PM
What do you mean borderline???
MarkTheGreat on August 5, 2008 at 12:16 PM
rockhauler on August 5, 2008 at 12:09 PM –
http://www.nbc24.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=53643
coldwarrior on August 5, 2008 at 12:17 PM
I make a voluntary choice to drive to a place with a parking meter.
If you are living, you generate trash.
The parking space is owned by someone, they are entitled to receive payment for it’s useage.
MarkTheGreat on August 5, 2008 at 12:20 PM
The only reason there is protest to this is because it is new, and conservatives are unable to accept anything new without calling it “stupid.”. In a parallel universe, let’s say that people grow up with recycling fines, but street parking is free nationwide. In that universe, this is what is normal and accepted. Then someone decides to put machines at every parking spot in the nation, forcing you to pay for the spot. If you don’t do so, there will be a large fine. The conservatives in this universe would go nuts, calling the idea “idiotic,” “stupid,” etc.
Parking fines or littering fines make no more, or less, sense than recycling fines. You are just unable to look at it with a unbiased mind.
dave742 on August 5, 2008 at 12:22 PM
recycling anything other than a few metals makes no sense.
Fining people for failing to recycle makes even less sense.
I’m not surprised that those here who spend their lives thinking of new ways to control how other people live their lives, have no problem with this concept.
MarkTheGreat on August 5, 2008 at 12:28 PM
MarkTheGreat:
You can live without generating trash. Many people would say it’s impossible to live without a car as well, but it is.
The parking space is owned by the city. If you don’t use it according to the rules (by putting in change), you get fined. The city dump is owned by the city. You have to pay to use the city dump. If you don’t use it according to the rules, you get fined.
dave742 on August 5, 2008 at 12:28 PM
F*** Off. That is the only response I have to your idiotic statements. You don’t deserve more than that. What is it with the daves on this site?
There’s plenty of parking spaces, by the way, that don’t have parking meters.
jimmy the notable on August 5, 2008 at 12:28 PM
How?
JetBoy on August 5, 2008 at 12:33 PM
You are so on the money. You should not apologize for your honesty. I put a premium on honesty. Thanks.
Everytime I’ve written “f****** idiots” in the past few months, I’ve kinda cringed. It’s so odd how just like any other community we get used to and expect certain things from certain people. I’m sure that I was a much better advocate for my ideals a year ago. As of late, I’m just doing a lot of backbiting and snarking…sue me. (See what I mean?)
I don’t remember writing about a “change” but I trust in your account. I have absolutely taken a bit of a “bastardized” version of myself. I offer no excuse, but simple explanation:
I’m really displeased with my party right now. Just as you detect some slippage in my demeanor and standards, I detect equal slippage in my party. We are fighting a bad fight and throwing bad stones. I know many disagree with me and quite honestly that’s the rub.
It does not feel good to feel so bad about my team. There are two parties and Democrats are horrible. But Republicans, whom I have always defended and advocated for, currently suck too. I spent many years as a lightning rod for insults as a black Republican. I never flinched at forwarding my beliefs…especially to other minorities. I’m just a little bummed at what I peceive to be a downgrade in racially tinged language and behavior amongst Republicans.
Mostly I’m adjusting to accepting that this is just the beginning. If I truly support conservative values, then I will have to have to accept the current blind spot in my party.
There’s a pea under my mattress.
When the election’s over, I’ll chill out again. I like the congenial, cerebral, pseudo-profound me more than the buzzard-attracting, piss-factory I’ve been lately.
***
Do you mean oppositely located, as in I’m an anus? Or do you mean the opposite concept, as in I’m a p*ssy?
***
Um, totally.
***
@OldNuke
I really care what you think. Thanks for your input. Your comments meant the most. Realy, really.
The Race Card on August 5, 2008 at 12:34 PM
jimmy the notable:
I guess I should edit my sentence above to say:
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
coldwarrior:
dave742 on August 5, 2008 at 12:36 PM
really really like in Fish Heads
The Race Card on August 5, 2008 at 12:36 PM
So…You’re saying that liberals would be glad to pay for previously free parking spaces, do I understand you correctly? And that ONLY the conservatives would object, is that what you’re saying?
Why don’t you get back to us on that.
In the meantime,
Really? Anything?
How about if you suddenly (*suppresses several snarky comments*), um, became a conservative? Do you think conservatives on this site would welcome that “new thing,” or not?
Seriously, that silly comment is kind of beneath you, don’t you think?
inviolet on August 5, 2008 at 12:38 PM
Gotcha.
The cans were crushed, the bar codes unreadable. Guess the retailer has to take them anyway.
It works the other way, too. Taxes on cigarettes and gasoline are so high in Michigan that anyone living near the state borders cross the line to purchase those items. The state has enforcement officers trying to catch offenders.
Even better, environmental laws in Canada are so strict it is cost effective for some refuse haulers to transport Canadian garbage to Michigan dump sites.
The more the leftist attempt to ‘manage’ the economy, the worse it gets.
rockhauler on August 5, 2008 at 12:40 PM
I’m not saying F*** off at the idea, I’m saying it at you for pigeonholing conservatives. By the way, parking meters are a racket, just like this. They are a moneymaking scheme. Go to the Jersey Shore, Seaside Heights sometime. If you decide to park right on the boardwalk you have to pay. This isn’t because of some sort of…I don’t even know what the logical justification is for it. But if you decide to park about 2 or 3 blocks inland, then you can find ample spaces with no charge. So yeah, I don’t just “go along” with parking meters, and I wouldn’t just “go along” with some sort of moneymaking racket that would force me to recycle, and fine me if I didn’t do it perfectly. I’m perfectly willing to recycle voluntarily, as are most people, conservatives included. Its deciding to enlarge the government, to add idiotic bureaucratic processes, to waste money to ensure that every single person is recycling, as if a few people who don’t are going to make some sort of difference. I oppose the Democratic thinking that the government is here to solve every single problem that we have. That is why I oppose this, not because it is “new” and “stupid.”
So f*** off, for assuming that the only opposition to this is because conservatives are dumb and thickheaded and hate change.
jimmy the notable on August 5, 2008 at 12:42 PM
What happens if you sorted your trash appropriately, but, someone else walks by and tosses their apple core in your garbage can? Do you get the fine? Or, do you get the chance to do DNA testing to prove that it’s not your apple?
Some cities make money off of recycling. In Santa Monica, they were considering making it illegal to pull bottles and cans out of city dumpsters. They estimated that homeless people were ’stealing’ roughly $180,000 worth of ‘recycle revenue’ per year from the city by getting to the cans before the city sorters could.
JadeNYU on August 5, 2008 at 12:45 PM
Thanks for the civil and thoughtful reply; much appreciated. Know what you mean about the current state of conservatism; it is rawtha rankling.
LOL
(And whaddya mean “pseudo?”)
The Lord knows that plenty of times I’ve lost my patience IRL; guess it’s just more noticeable on a blog when all we have are people’s nekkid words.
We’ll look forward to seeing the real you again, then, when he’s ready to emerge. :)
inviolet on August 5, 2008 at 12:48 PM
inviolet:
My position is that paying a fine for parking against the rules is a more onerous fine than a fine for not recycling properly. Not recycling properly is an environmental propblem and wastes city money. Parking fines are purely for income generation. That said, I don’t have a problem paying parking fines. I don’t have a problem with any fines or taxes. I believe taxes and fines should be much higher. I love to visit countries where taxes and fines are higher and as a result the infrastructure is in great shape, the citizens are taken care of, and the country looks beautiful instead of looking like a dump, as in the US. The problem is not with generating income via taxes and fines, it’s how that money is used that I have a problem with.
I will rephrase my other sentence since you seem to be critiquing every word:
dave742 on August 5, 2008 at 12:52 PM
@ Inviolet
I feel a lot better now….zesty as a lemon peel. Thanks.
The Race Card on August 5, 2008 at 12:52 PM
jimmy the notable:
Simply saying “f*** off” is a sign of being unintelligent. An intelligent way of saying what you did above is to find a liberal blog where they are voicing as much opposition as on this thread. Then you would be saying “f*** off” in an intelligent way. It is dumb, thickheaded conservatives who say things like “f*** off” without providing any evidence that others are wrong.
dave742 on August 5, 2008 at 12:58 PM
I don’t have a problem with any fines or taxes. I believe taxes and fines should be much higher.
dave742 on August 5, 2008 at 12:52 PM
I think this speaks for itself.
No need trying to argue against expansive government to this lib-tard.
catmman on August 5, 2008 at 1:01 PM
I knew exactly what I was doing when I used the expletive. I never do that here, and am generally cordial in disagreements. Your statement was without any basis and insulting, and didn’t need to be proven false, so I was simply responding to you with my gut reaction. I felt that your statement was insulting at such a base level that you deserved no more than a base level response. I don’t feel the need to prove that conservatives aren’t all how you said we are, because I hold that truth to be self-evident, as corny as that is.
jimmy the notable on August 5, 2008 at 1:01 PM
By the way, I hope that response was high-brow enough for your refined tastes in comment-board etiquette.
jimmy the notable on August 5, 2008 at 1:04 PM
Thanks for clarifying your position. My position re: newness of ideas and the difference between liberals and conservatives would be stated more like this: “liberals tend to be more eager to embrace new ideas simply because they are new, and not because of a considered thought process on what their effects and ramifications might be. Conservatives tend to think this out more, and will be happy to promote new ideas if their net benefits are clear.”
Well…there might be another difference between liberals and conservatives, and certainly a difference between you and me. I would prefer that my taxes and fines be as low as possible, and that I (along with my neighbors) take responsibility for the appearance of our neighborhood wrt trash etc.
And…this is especially do-able with something easy like trash and proper recycling and littering (as opposed to building new roads, which obviously is much easier for the city to do).
My neighborhoods, both at home and work (urban BTW) are very nice looking, precisely because each individual neighbor, when he sees litter trash, picks or sweeps it up (we don’t wait for the sweeping truck or the broom crews), and the recycle bins are all along the block every Tuesday even though there is no fine here for not doing it “right.”
Personal responsibility vs. taxes + government’ll-do-it IOW. Just MO.
inviolet on August 5, 2008 at 1:12 PM
Next SF will be telling you how to wipe one’s arse and what to do with the waste.
Keep your laws out of my
wombtrash can.The Race Card on August 5, 2008 at 1:18 PM
grammar FAIL!
The Race Card on August 5, 2008 at 1:19 PM
Which bin do I put my used “hope” in?
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 5, 2008 at 1:19 PM
and
You mean people thouroughly brainwashed.
No tahnks, I like to keep my thoughts my own.
Sir Napsalot on August 5, 2008 at 1:23 PM
“Recently, there were several arrests in Toledo of people who would collect cans all over Ohio and drive over to Michigan to “refund” them.”
Were their names “Kramer” and “Newman”?
NoDonkey on August 5, 2008 at 1:24 PM
inviolet:
Really? When I first read this thread, it sounded like a good idea to me, but I di not simply respond and say so. As with any other issue, I looked into it. Who has done this before? Has it worked? What are the benefits? After doing a little research, it was clear to me that the idea saves money and produces results. As someone who does this already, I know what is being asked amounts to mere minutes per week. Most people are spending much more time bitching about this than it would take to simply do it. So for very little effort, there are real benefits. So I made my first post saying so, and it included four references to back up what I said. Here’s another reference regarding savings in Seatlle after initiated a recycling fining law:
US States News
January 25, 2006 Wednesday 3:21 AM EST
ACTIONS, SURVEY SHOW STRONG SUPPORT FOR RECYCLING
BYLINE: US States News
So there’s my “considered thought process.” Do you seriously contend that on a thread where the first comment was
that conservatives are really putting a similar thought process into this issue?
dave742 on August 5, 2008 at 1:30 PM
NoDonkey on August 5, 2008 at 1:24 PM
Check the link…the article refers to that Seinfeld episode…
coldwarrior on August 5, 2008 at 1:36 PM
Mayor Newsom should focus on cleaning the filth roaming the streets of San Fran instead of worrying about whether or not people are sorting their trash. Pubic diplays of nudity and sexual acts on the street seem to me to be a far more important issue
plainspeakin_mom on August 5, 2008 at 1:42 PM
You certainly do seem to be putting a considered thought process into this, and that’s great. I would be a little hesitant about attributing to all conservatives (or liberals FTM) people’s first thoughts on a blog, where not everyone has the personality to think before they speak. Some people think out loud by bouncing their first impressions off others, etc. There’s also exaggerations, jokes, snark, blowing off steam to account for. So I don’t tend to make sweeping generalizations from reading a comment thread I guess.
That said, I agree with your comments about the benefits of recycling. IMO anyway, what people are reacting to is the so-frequent seemingly default position of raising taxes and fines by liberal government leaders to control others’ behavior, as if no way would people do it themselves, and considering the very real costs of enforcement.
Sorry I don’t have time to dig through all the comments again but there was one above that mentioned the emissions coming from a garbage truck, for example, idling while the trash is checked if this is . Just one environmental costs among many costs. You ridiculed this point right after that comment. If you don’t think that is actually going to happen (idling garbage trucks while trash is checked for pizza rinds etc) you are simply not being realistic. And, as mentioned, this is only one cost.
I agree with you that separating certain recyclables saves money. I do it myself at home and work. What I don’t agree is that the cost of checking and enforcement (here we are, getting down to the actual day to day nitty gritty of what would be involved) of garbage people going through individual trash bins is a net benefit. You’re certainly free to disagree. But to say that because some people are focusing more on benefits more than costs (or vice versa) or that people can reasonably disagree on what the actual dollar cost would be, that conservatives (and some liberals I’m sure) are somehow hidebound for not immediately embracing the idea. That’s what people found insulting actually.
inviolet on August 5, 2008 at 1:54 PM
if this is = if this is passed.
inviolet on August 5, 2008 at 1:56 PM
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