Obama’s energy policy: Turn out the lights and pray for wind
posted at 1:35 pm on August 4, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Perhaps the Barack Obama campaign needs the services of a mathematician, but it doesn’t take differential calculus to determine that his energy policy doesn’t add up. Politico reports on Obama’s speech in Lansing, which officially served as the re-launch of his efforts to defuse public anger over Congressional inaction on domestic energy production. Obama wants to both transfer American transportation from oil to electricity and then cut electrical production as well:
The three main components of Obama’s plan are:
— Get 1 million 150 mile-per-gallon plug-in hybrids on U.S. roads within six years.
— Require that 10 percent of U.S. energy comes from renewable sources by the end of his first term – more than double the current level.
—Reduce U.S. demand for electricity 15 percent by 2020.
Well, far be it from me to point out the obvious, but the more cars we have that use “plug-in hybrids”, the more demand for electricity will increase. Apparently, this didn’t catch the attention of the Harvard-educated candidate, but it should catch the attention of the voting public. Transferring the burden of transportation from gasoline to electricity will vastly increase the need for more generating stations.
Even without the transfer of cars from gas to electrical power, how exactly does Obama plan on cutting electrical demand in the US? As the economy and the population grow, the need for electricity will continue to expand as well, in order to just maintain the current standard of living, let alone improve it. Perhaps we will hear more about the electrical equivalent of inflating tires, and Obama does plan to spend billions of dollars weatherizing homes — which Americans do when their energy bills increase anyway.
What happens when the demand doesn’t decrease by 15%? Where will Obama get the energy needed to power the economy? He doesn’t answer that question.
And why worry about electrical demand if Obama believes that we will have emission-free mass-production sources on line in the next 10 years? Electricity in and of itself is completely neutral to the global-warming debate; it’s the source that matters. If we have solar energy perfected, as an example, why worry about electrical demand?
This sounds like a Luddite philosophy, an energy-hostile policy regardless of its source or its benefits. Obama wants America to live in a shortage economy, where we become ever more dependent on government to ration energy and in which our standard of living decreases year after year. Obama talks about Hope, but he’s really selling Despair … and it has started to lose whatever luster it ever had as his energy policies come more into focus.
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“I’m Ron Burgundy?” - do you think if we wrote that on the Messiah’s teleprompter, he’d say it? Or maybe “Go f*)k yourself, San Diego.”
Can you imagine the power bill after one buys a Plug in Hybrid? Methinks you’d be saving no money absolutely none. But I’m apparently not the only one who has thought of that. Too bad the Obamster hasn’t.
mjk on August 4, 2008 at 2:49 PM
Quote of the Day
brtex on August 4, 2008 at 2:50 PM
“Harvard educated” is an oxymoron.
Jaibones on August 4, 2008 at 2:51 PM
Was it Bill Buckley who said he’d rather be governed by the first ten names in the Boston phone book than by the Harvard faculty?
Jaibones on August 4, 2008 at 2:52 PM
Is it any wonder that every brain-dead Hollywood sit-com that has a college kid, the kid goes to Harvard or Yale?
What a farcical lala land of nitwits. Obama gets degrees from Columbia and Harvard Law, and hasn’t got the sense God gives a dog.
Jaibones on August 4, 2008 at 2:53 PM
Buckley sure did like the Adams’s…
coldwarrior on August 4, 2008 at 2:53 PM
Reduce demand? On a per capita basis? Or overall? Overall may be hard to do with an increasing population. The only way I’m reducing my demand is via efficiency increases in A/C units, heating units, appliances, etc. because I won’t be decreasing my usage of my comforts.
How many coal fired power plants do 20 million illegals require? How many barrels of oil do 20 million illegals require? Someone ask that of Obama and McCain.
DerKrieger on August 4, 2008 at 2:54 PM
How many lawyers DO make sense? None of them have a business education, which, to me seems more valuable for public service than a law degree.
DerKrieger on August 4, 2008 at 2:55 PM
See here and here
And tell me which one has played a bigger role.
Yes, but the ethanol lobby is the stronger of the two right now.
Rick on August 4, 2008 at 2:59 PM
Well inflation is caused by high oil prices.
Do you not think that if we have other energy sources the price of oil will go down(thus saving our currency and stopping inflation).
Economics 101. Demand drops..the price of the supply drops.
Don’t let President Ubama push you into being on the wrong side of an issue or defend an undefendable issue..
Mccain should call obama out on his ridiculous “energy independence” plan and say “Ubama wants to put 1 million plug in hybrids on the road within 6 years? That’s not going to help anything…vote for me, I will put 150 million plug in hybrids/electric vehicles on the road within 2 years!”
That’s real change.
SaintOlaf on August 4, 2008 at 3:04 PM
to be fair this is the columbia Nobama really got his Degree from .
Mojack420 on August 4, 2008 at 3:04 PM
Really? 10 cents/kwh? We pay 14 cents/kwh. I wonder if that’s a regional thing or if I need to do some comparison shopping.
aero on August 4, 2008 at 3:05 PM
Absolutely. We could significantly reduce our energy consumption if we started enforcing our immigration laws. But Mr. Citizen of the World Obama apparently wants to bring our standard of living down to the same level as that enjoyed by the Third World hordes he’ll keep encouraging to come across our borders.
AZCoyote on August 4, 2008 at 3:05 PM
Mandate, mandate, mandate.
That’s how liberals always propose to fix things - they’d order (other) people to stop doing what they themselves do, without regard for the resultant diminution of (other) people’s quality of life in so (not) doing.
Why doesn’t Obama set an example and travel in a horse and buggy, rather than private jetliners and a fleet of Suburbans?
This guy could EASILY get beaten like a rented mule in November - I don’t think lower income Americans have much appetite for the East Coast liberal dinner-party politics that Obama has on offer.
Martin on August 4, 2008 at 3:06 PM
Dems’re already bitching about lost revenue with the bit people have pulled back in their driving already. So, when we go all electrical, what’s gonna replace the highway taxes that petrol brings in now?
Or is that, like, a surprise for later or something?
tree hugging sister on August 4, 2008 at 3:07 PM
turn out the lights and eat beans!
Ropera on August 4, 2008 at 3:10 PM
That’s why Iowa gets first picks in the primary.
Mojack420 on August 4, 2008 at 3:13 PM
What kind of energy sources? Nuclear? Environmentalists won’t let us build plants. Water? Environmentalists won’t let us dam up rivers or use any kind of power turbine. Coal? Have to dig it out of the ground somehow. You think they go down there with a shovel and a pail? Gas is used to power the diggers (for lack of better terms) that dig up the coal.
Perhaps we should make the diggers be eletric too. How would that proposal work? Those things are huge. What about Farms? Should farming equipment be “mandated” to be electrical? How much more are tractors supposed to cost (some cost a quarter of a million).
The cold truth of the matter is you can’t just “will” something to happen. Someone has to make a step. Obama’s random energy policy doesn’t pass the muster because he’s got nothing to back it up with. It’s like a beauty contestant saying they want peace in the Middle East. Pointless and naive.
I would love to see how magically all this stuff is supposed to happen. Especially in a state like Montana. These proposals sound wonderful to people who live in New York City or Chicago, but when you live in the rural areas, the idea of driving a smart car or something equally stupid, makes you kinda want to cling even more to the religion and the guns.
mjk on August 4, 2008 at 3:13 PM
Dang. Here in Nebraska it’s only about 6.5 cents/kWh.
Check this
Guess I’m glad (not really) that I don’t live in Hawaii where it’s 29 cents.
cntrlfrk on August 4, 2008 at 3:18 PM
Even without the transfer of cars from gas to electrical power, how exactly does Obama plan on cutting electrical demand in the US? As the economy and the population grow, the need for electricity will continue to expand as well, in order to just maintain the current standard of living, let alone improve it. Perhaps we will hear more about the electrical equivalent of inflating tires
All ready taken care of the CFL bill will do the job. dems are idiots when it comes to economics but I guess its the thought that counts….
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 3:19 PM
“None of them have a business education, which, to me seems more valuable for public service than a law degree.”
Not if you’re more interested in the public serving your interests.
Which is what it’s all about for lawyers.
NoDonkey on August 4, 2008 at 3:20 PM
Regional areas are very much effected. Some areas HAVE a Nuclear plant, but what is the cost of the kw/hr for them. Some run off the hydroelectric dams, but what cost are they running at? I run off natural gas and coal, like most of the Nation. I pay (for my area in my state) .15 kw/hr. But other areas around here can pay up to .35 kw/hr. Why is it that my State who has their own grid, and does not share with Canada, pay that high and we use our own coal and natural gas? Monopolies are the best kept secrets in every State and letting independents in would make those who have the monopolies lose big time and the consumer would win.
Anyone else know how much they pay?
upinak on August 4, 2008 at 3:20 PM
if you want to go electric you will need nuclear. there is no other way. Wind and solar can help some, as well as tidal, geothermal coal, NG etc but nuclear must be a large part of the equation for ANY electrical based economy.
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 3:21 PM
…use smaller light bulbs. Feel free to use that.
/sarcasm
Wyznowski on August 4, 2008 at 3:22 PM
Good site, only problem is that everyone I know went up 10% after March 2008. This is not accurate anymore, but at least it is an idea.
upinak on August 4, 2008 at 3:23 PM
9.9 cents/kWh in NC. 10.2 if you add in state taxes…
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 3:25 PM
True but it’s not like will shut off all oil usage if we mandate that all new cars must be plug-in hybrid (which is NOT what President ubama is trying to do BTW..his plan is a token 1M cars which will do next to nothing for energy independence).
A real solution would be electric fleet + coal to oil liquification,which dems have been stopping for years in their deluded quest to appease the earth mother goddess.
SaintOlaf on August 4, 2008 at 3:34 PM
WTF? I didn’t read your commentary yet.. How the hell do you do this?
Energy doesn’t run on “Hope” maybe Obama needs to take a Physics class.
Chakra Hammer on August 4, 2008 at 3:38 PM
Did I mention that McCain is not a real conservative, and so we should not vote at all in November?
exhelodrvr on August 4, 2008 at 3:40 PM
Your power bill will be zero because all the generation units and power lines would have been overloaded and burned up.
Your correct no leftie can think this deep. Everyone I have talked to about electric cars think you just plug all 300 million of them into a “wall outlet”. that is as far as they can see or think.
allrsn on August 4, 2008 at 3:42 PM
opps *you’re
allrsn on August 4, 2008 at 3:44 PM
A real solution would be electric fleet + coal to oil liquification,which dems have been stopping for years in their deluded quest to appease the earth mother goddess.
SaintOlaf on August 4, 2008 at 3:34 PM
Well since the federal gov owns/leases about 700,000 cars. BHO could start there. I would love to see Rangel, Reid, Pelosi having to drive little hybrids around washington and their districts instead of the SUV, lincolns and cadillaics
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 3:45 PM
Can you imagine brown out, rolling black out and other items that happen in the middle of the night?
Not to mention if these batteries for these cars are like lithium batteries. If you don’t plug them in and let them charge all the way and then let them run ALL the way out (more or less make them die) those car batteries are going to be worthless and very expensive!
upinak on August 4, 2008 at 3:45 PM
Your correct no leftie can think this deep. Everyone I have talked to about electric cars think you just plug all 300 million of them into a “wall outlet”. that is as far as they can see or think.
allrsn on August 4, 2008 at 3:42 PM
It will not be has big of a hit as that. since most charging will be done at night during off peak times the grid should be able to handle it at first but the more cars you put on the system without added electrical generation the sooner it melts down. since you will now have power plants running at peak capacity 24/7 plants would not have the needed times for repairs, will need to hire more people to work at nights etc. Electric cost will go up.
Until we can get some type of large storage of electrical energy or some typer of massive small points of storage the electrical dream will end in its infantacy
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 3:49 PM
I’d like to see someone ask Obama about how we are going to mine all the Nickel, Cadnium and Lithium to make batteries for these new cars without harming the environment.
Then explain how we are going to dispose of the used batteries and how the po’folk are going to afford a new set of batteries every 3 years at a few grand each.
cntrlfrk on August 4, 2008 at 3:57 PM
You know the Federal gasoline tax, that is supposed to be used for roads and bridges, where or how are they going to to tax electricity?
Will they tax all electricity as if it it was a car? this may not be a good idea..
However i read an article on dailytech that they were working a system that the power company would know IF a vehicle was pluggen in(not sure how that would work.. thats the only way that they could meter the taxes)
Chakra Hammer on August 4, 2008 at 3:57 PM
Because they’re expensive. Because we don’t know how to dispose of that many toxic batteries. Because EMT crews may have to involve hazmat teams in the case of bad car accidents. Because I have a family of 6 and can’t find a hybrid big enough to haul a family of teenagers and cargo.
Oh! You meant the liberal “reasons”…
dominigan on August 4, 2008 at 3:58 PM
Oh! You meant the liberal “reasons”…
dominigan on August 4, 2008 at 3:58 PM
I’m sure if you dig a little bit the poster will tell you that the oil companies have bought all the patents on clean cheap energy production and hidden it in area 51 or some place.
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 4:02 PM
I say we do an experiment with electrical vehicles. Since California loves to be the “leader” in Government mandates, I say we let them take the lead once again.
Weren’t they the ones a few years back that had all those rolling brownouts? What do you think would happen to their grid when electrical use jumps a few dozen percent?
Can you say “crash and burn”?
dominigan on August 4, 2008 at 4:02 PM
GM, Utility Companies Team up to Improve Electric Vehicle Infrastructure
IF they “know” that a car is plugged into the socket then they could meter it and tax you on it..
Chakra Hammer on August 4, 2008 at 4:02 PM
That is a crazy idea. How dare you say that and accuse our loyal oil companies and honest politicians of having anything but our common American interests in mind…you need to watch more MSM news, they’ll tell you nothing but the truth and clear up all these wacky ideas of yours.
SaintOlaf on August 4, 2008 at 4:14 PM
And how am I supposed to afford this new hybrid car? I`m struggling to pay the bills now! I suppose my burden will be lower when I`m sweating to death in the summer and freezing in the winter because I have to cut back my energy use.
ThePrez on August 4, 2008 at 4:23 PM
And maybe if Barack flapped his ears, he’d fly.
hepcat on August 4, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Even if you were RICH you couldn’t keep your house at 72 degrees, or eat as much as you want because Obama says so!
Chakra Hammer on August 4, 2008 at 4:30 PM
As incredible as it sounds, I too have had this conversation with leftists. Electric is good because it comes from the wall. Oh and the evil oil companies killed the electric car, it was developed in the mid-90s and it would’ve solved all our problems but the Exxon Greedmen put a stop to it. There was a movie about it and everything!
Gilda on August 4, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Exactly. But at the same time you are (appropriately so) poking holes in his idiotic ideas, point out that he should NOT be offering them in the first place.
It is not up to government, nor the general populace for that matter, to determine what kind of energy sources we ought to have. That function is, morally and practically speaking, to be left to the free market.
If the energy supplying businesses and their trading partners — other businesses, individual automobile owners, etc — decide that using oil/gasoline is better, great. If it turns out that using maglev trains is preferred, also fine. If they choose to use ropes tied to the front of a donkey cart powered by carrots, so be it.
If the price of oil/gas rises or falls, the moral principle is the same: HANDS OFF!
It’s about freedom — not just the price of gas.
JDPerren on August 4, 2008 at 4:34 PM
yea, some people are dumb, always believe movies.. we have battery technology that now that far surpasses anything that was in that movie.
Chakra Hammer on August 4, 2008 at 4:35 PM
The idea behind the AFS Trinity is based on a widely accepted rule of thumb: the vast majority of drivers travel fewer than 40 miles a day. According to AFS Trinity, a driver who went 40 miles or less a day six days a week, and 100 miles once a week, would be traveling 150 miles for each gallon of gasoline burned, spending a little less than $8 for the gasoline and a little less than $8 for the electricity. The total fuel cost of $15.49 is about one-third of what it would cost for the gasoline to propel a conventional hybrid like the Lexus RX 400h the same distance, by AFS Trinity’s calculation.
That’s how you get 150 miles per gallon. Will it work for you? It wouldn’t for me.
And this “150 mpg vehicle” is a prototype - if this plant went to full production tomorrow would it push out 1 million vehicles inside 6 years?
Maybe the Obamamessiah has one of these in mind? At a US market price of $30K, it’s economical…right?
catmman on August 4, 2008 at 4:38 PM
[Chakra Hammer on August 4, 2008 at 4:02 PM]
Yeah, just what we need 200 million gadgets in cars choking the communications grid so the electrical companies can know-monitor-control when car owners intend to recharge their cars by plugging them into an outlet, instead of watching their power demand graph on their plant computers.
It’s not like this is rocket science or it’s not known that power demand will slowly increase with as the electric car market grows.
But these gadgets would be important if we were so strapped for electrical supply from 4 years of Democratic Party’s centrally planned command energy policy and lack of power plant construction and country mired in recession and high energy prices that it’s either these gadgets or rolling blackouts in major cities and towns throughout the country.
Dusty on August 4, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Chakra Hammer on August 4, 2008 at 4:02 PM
So if i run out of electricity during the day I will just need to sit at home until the next day? Sounds like BHO smart metering idea in his new energy policy.
And what if I work 3rd shift will I not be able to charge my car during the day while i’m sleeping? this issue of the governments for control is the reason their programs always fail. I can thing of three ways to get around this in about 5 minutes.
Just like the idea to charge you per mile tax with gps nits on your car. Can you say time for a “$500 car that just makes it to the gas station and back and a nice automated fuel pump to change fuel from one vechile to another. Or many 5 gallon gas cans. etc. Witht hte plug in hybrid a simple relay between the plug and the car would render this ineffective. he simplest thing (but the hardest politically)for the government would be to just increase the income tax or sales tax by the amount they are now getting for gas taxes and cut out the gas tax.
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 4:40 PM
Leftists also think nuc power is also bad.
Hence Obama’s pipe dream.
F15Mech on August 4, 2008 at 4:41 PM
That’s not a problem. You’ll just need a permit from the DMV and proof you can speak a second language.
Dusty on August 4, 2008 at 4:43 PM
More nukes, fewer kooks!!!
Akzed on August 4, 2008 at 4:44 PM
We sure do but it’s still not all that great. The EV-1 was an interesting experiment although never near large-scale viability.
Interestingly enough, these arguments come from leftists who daily run into the battery-limitation wall with their cellphones, laptops and iPods. If they’re stupid it’s willful stupidity. Or magical thinking, or both.
Ah well. Mommy (government) will take care of it I suppose.
Gilda on August 4, 2008 at 4:50 PM
That’s not a problem. You’ll just need a permit from the DMV and proof you can speak a second language.
Dusty on August 4, 2008 at 4:43 PM
I know you are joking but after reading the BHO energy policy I know BHO isn’t joking. read it for yourself. Pay attention to the subsection on electricty smart grid program. BHO wants the DOE to be the electricty police and monitor and regulate the electric grid. Basically BHYO want to control your thermostate.
he wants to “redefine” the profit models of utility companies to change how they make a profit from increasing production to “performance and relibility” measurements, he wants to fine utilities that do not DECREASE electric production.
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/factsheet_energy_speech_080308.pdf
Its on the bottom of pg 7 and top of pg 8. the most frightening thing I have ever read from a USA presidential canidate.
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 4:55 PM
they have technology that can communicate over powerlines..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_line_communication
Chakra Hammer on August 4, 2008 at 4:57 PM
ok so here we go:
Think about food and what you have done with electricity to get it.
Chickens are raised on electricity and pretty “cheap” in comparison to other meats. You do not have electricity, expec chicken to become a delicacy. Have to have electricity to incubate chickens!
Most greenhouses start tomatoes (yep they are already expensive) but can you imagine the price of electricity if those hot houses are not waters on time via the electricity and you have to use humans to water them once every 4 hours. I can’t even imagine the cost of a tomato… and that goes with EVERYTHING tomato based. Think about it.
Miliing cows in the morning uses a lot of electricity. Espacially at 4 AM in the morning. Think about it… I bet a normal 400-500 cow milking farm uses quite a bit of electricity, for the lights, feeding trays that are on timers, and then milking the cows not just once but twice to sometimes three times a day. Expect milk to go up 3 times more then what it is now.
Those who beleive in Solar panels, many farmers have used them but they do not work well with cloudy days! And even though the panels help, at 4AM they don’t work too well.
I am bringing this up because this is what will happen. You don’t have to take my word for it. I live in one of the most expensive areas and have to pay huge amounts for food…. I have a feeling i am going to be losing a lot of weight and it won’t be by choice, and it isn’t like I need to lose it either.
upinak on August 4, 2008 at 4:59 PM
Chakra Hammer on August 4, 2008 at 4:57 PM
If these programs are implemented I see a massive push at the grass roots level to go off grid. the power companies won’t mind because the “profit model” will no longer require power companies to produce more electricity and would infact fine them if they did. So a win-win economically for customers to go off grid and for power companies to have them go off grid will in effect destroy the entire electric grid raising prices for those left on the grid so high that companies will flee the USa to other countries.
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 5:00 PM
What in the world does WINDFALL PROFIT mean.
If I were to by a cd at my loacal bank for 1000 dollars and were to receive 5 percent per year I would end up with 1050 dollars at the end of one year. Even though I made $50 that is taxable income I do not feel anyone would begrudge my PROFIT. On the other hand if I were to invest $10,000,000 in the same plan I would make $500,000. So what do I think? I think someone would say that I am cheating and that I should pay a WINDFALL PROFITS tax.
TomLawler on August 4, 2008 at 5:01 PM
I don’t know..
I just posted that article because its a system that GM is working on that would allow for power companies to know when a car is plugged into a an outlet.. not sure how it should be regulated.. I agree that only being charged at night is BS.. that that you should be able to charge it whenever you want to, and IF you choose to charge it at night then you get the cheaper rate.. etc.. that’s the incentive to charge it at night..
DONT FORCE People to charge it at night, but have the incentive there at lower cost.. (since the rates are are lower at night or whatever.. )
You can’t have peoples vehicles disabled because they they cant charge them during certain times..
Chakra Hammer on August 4, 2008 at 5:02 PM
What an idiot……..
What about electric airplanes? Anyone want to be first to fly on that baby, over the ocean, through a storm?
What about our military and it’s electric air force, electric tanks, electric ships, electric rockets, electric personnel carriers?
What about our electric trains up and down the Cajon pass, electric big rigs to haul our goods, and electric life flight helicopters?
……….. wait a moment. If we go completely electric, what about the risk of terrorists using an Electromagnetic pulse to cripple our society?
Yeah, Obama, you reall have thought this all the way through, haven’t you…………..
Seven Percent Solution on August 4, 2008 at 5:02 PM
6.25 cents per. Just checked my latest bill and that’s the annualized average. My electric bill is smaller than my cable bill by a lot! My heat pump/air conditioner runs pretty much year round and I set my thermostat by comfort level not economy.
Oldnuke on August 4, 2008 at 5:04 PM
……….. wait a moment. If we go completely electric, what about the risk of terrorists using an Electromagnetic pulse to cripple our society?
Seven Percent Solution on August 4, 2008 at 5:02 PM
With the present cars it will already cause them to be useless.
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 5:05 PM
Are you on Dominion, CP&L or some other provider?
Oldnuke on August 4, 2008 at 5:06 PM
I set my thermostat by comfort level not economy.
Oldnuke on August 4, 2008 at 5:04 PM
Not if BHO “energy policy” gets implemented.
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/factsheet_energy_speech_080308.pdf
see pg 7 and 8 for details on his idea to control the lectrical grid
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 5:07 PM
I’m a member of the AMA(Academy of Model Aeronautics) and electric airplanes work really good..
:)
Remote Control Airplanes.. ;)
Chakra Hammer on August 4, 2008 at 5:08 PM
Oldnuke on August 4, 2008 at 5:06 PM
CP&l or “progess” is the new name.
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 5:08 PM
yes but you live in a State that hasn’t mandated anything on energy as of yet.
I live in an energy rish state and still getting screwed!
upinak on August 4, 2008 at 5:09 PM
http://www.e-flightline.com/
click videos at the top left.. then you can watch the videos on the next page on the right side
Chakra Hammer on August 4, 2008 at 5:11 PM
I ignored Jimmy Carter’s insane BS I figure I can do the same for BO.
Oldnuke on August 4, 2008 at 5:15 PM
My average summer bill is over $600 a month - and that’s with my thermostat at 80. it’s too darned hot here to keep it much higher. I get a break in the winter and only have to pay roughly $300 per month.
We’ve done everything possible to reduce our usage - insulation, new roof, caulking, energy efficient appliances, etc.
Plugging in a car overnight would be a nightmare for us financially.
Obama is high on crack if he thinks people are really going to believe his populist bullshit.
pullingmyhairout on August 4, 2008 at 5:22 PM
You guys are way too hard on the Big O. Inflated air with worked for him, so why not for car tires
dhimwit on August 4, 2008 at 5:25 PM
What State? I did the same as you… but I had my house at a freaking 65 degrees for winter.. which up here is like COLD even for the inside of the house. 85 was my highest as I never turned lights on, nor anything. I won’t tell you what my NG bill was. and it was only me living there. I know this winter it will be a chilly one…. I hope everyone has extra blankeys!
upinak on August 4, 2008 at 5:30 PM
ignored Jimmy Carter’s insane BS I figure I can do the same for BO.
Oldnuke on August 4, 2008 at 5:15 PM
Yeah put BHO wants to upgrade the electric grid with smart technology so that you can’t ignore it.
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 5:33 PM
Where do you live? how large is your house?
is that house insulated good, “house wrap” it goes on before the vinyl siding? that helps a lot.. especially if you have an older house.. getting the siding replaced and getting it properly insulated and wrapped. that saved my parents lots of money, then they got theirs done last year.. (they also replaced a few windows.. that were damaged not broken but the seals apparently were bad and the outer vasing was allowing air o flow through)
Chakra Hammer on August 4, 2008 at 5:44 PM
Electric bicycles are the answer!
Unless, of course you have to haul kids, tools, materials, groceries etc. around, or unless the weather is bad.
My nearly completed e-bike is going to be able to get me about 30 miles on about 15 cents (current price) of electricity. That 30 miles will use about 1KWH battery energy, which due to the limitations of physics, requires about 1.5 to 1 input from the ‘wall plug’.
And to answer someone’s question from above, yes, the national average for residential electricity in the US (and a lot of the more populated parts of Canada, too) is about 10 cents per kilowatt hour. It varies from about 5.5 cents to 18 cents depending on where you live, how tough the state’s Utility commission is on prices, the type of generating plant that supplies you and maybe a few other factors.
After I finish this bike, I’m going to start building a three wheeler with a big basket on it so I can haul groceries…… and firewood, so I can heat one room of the house in winter if the democrats energy plans get implemented.
LegendHasIt on August 4, 2008 at 5:47 PM
LegendHasIt on August 4, 2008 at 5:47 PM
Yeah well China tried the bike thing. and they all decided they would rather have cars….go figure.
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 5:53 PM
Ah.
Well, I didn’t know what Dick Cheney was once president, before Bush. I could have sworn that was clinton. Maybe President Cheney won all 57 states before to become president before Bush.
THANKS FOR THE INFO, OBAMA!! *thumbs up*
wise_man on August 4, 2008 at 5:53 PM
And they call themselves “progressive.”
whitetop on August 4, 2008 at 5:57 PM
:)
so when you are done with your titanium 3 wheeler. Want to make me a titanium dog sled? heh!
upinak on August 4, 2008 at 6:00 PM
I guess that the sarcasm and the cautionary tale in what I wrote was too subtle after all. While everything I wrote is true, it wasn’t meant to be taken as a completely serious ’solution’ to the problem.
And while car sales in China have skyrocketed, electric bicycles, e-scooters and regular people powered cycles still outnumber cars by about 5 to one to 20 to 1 depending on where you are.
LegendHasIt on August 4, 2008 at 6:04 PM
I’m dreaming of a world powered by Democratulence.
whitetop on August 4, 2008 at 6:06 PM
LegendHasIt on August 4, 2008 at 6:04 PM
I got the joke. And I responded with one as well. Mine was subtle also. My point was that while China is moving forward we are moving backward. if you really think about it the irony is delicious.
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 6:10 PM
Titanium??? I wish! I’ve already spent about $6,000 on this semi-stupid project. Titanium would have doubled it, (no, tripled it, because I’d also have to buy a TIG welder to weld titanium). Current project is 2/3 aluminum and 1/3 steel (Because aluminum won’t safely handle the torque from my motors). The trike is going to be all steel…. I hate MIG welding aluminum.
I have, however, been noodling around with the idea of an electrically powered tracked rear, front ski, snow bike though…. When I can get out of here, I’m moving either to about 12,000 ft elevation in Colorado, or maybe up to your neck of the woods in Alaska.
Sorry to have gone so far off topic, Ed, and anyone else irritated by it.
LegendHasIt on August 4, 2008 at 6:14 PM
[Chakra Hammer on August 4, 2008 at 4:57 PM]
Hey, cool. Geez, the tech nowadays is amazing.
Dusty on August 4, 2008 at 6:18 PM
allrsn on August 4, 2008 at 6:28 PM
sorry I must have hit srike instead of endquote
allrsn on August 4, 2008 at 6:29 PM
Actually it really isn’t much off topic.
Your idea could actually be very useful here in Alaska and other wintery States. A small 1.5 horse powered engine (battery or gas doesn’t matter) on a small item like a snow scooter.. could work! I would possibly get one on the better days, say 20’s and teens. Wind Chill is a PITA and chapped skin is no fun.
upinak on August 4, 2008 at 6:29 PM
allrsn on August 4, 2008 at 6:29 PM
I like this idea:
http://www.revetec.com/
Now if the evvvvviiillll oil companies don’t buy them out or have a hit taken out on the inventor…….you never know about those evvvviiiilllll oil companies….
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 6:32 PM
Pakastan and India are getting the same idea!
allrsn on August 4, 2008 at 6:33 PM
allrsn on August 4, 2008 at 6:33 PM
yeah go figure it must be mass insanity or something….
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 6:36 PM
A interesting link, a 2 cycle engine running on jp8. JP8 is likely expensive. I am a bit skeptical, eventhough they have eliminated a clumsy crankshaft the pistons still reciprocate. It takes a lot of energy to change direction.
I think they need to increase efficency before it will sell.
The oil companies will have no interest in this or any engine except that they will have to adjust refine more JP8.
I also have long thought that we need to come up with a high efficiency combustion engine. I have been thinking more along the lines of a rotery engine which does not reciprocate. I do not understand why Mazda’s rotery is so inefficient.
There is a lot of research going on in all area’s it will be fun to see what we come up with in the next 20 years.
allrsn on August 4, 2008 at 6:51 PM
Here is a Wikipedia on modern engine efficiency.
“Modern gasoline engines have an average efficiency of about 25 to 30% when used to power an automobile. In other words, of the total heat energy of gasoline, 70 to 75% is rejected (as heat) in the exhaust or consumed by the motor (friction, air turbulence, heat through the cylinder walls or cylinder head, and work used to turn engine equipment and appliances such as water and oil pumps and electrical generator), and only about 25% of energy moves the vehicle.”
Notice that most of the inefficiency is thru heat loss and the rest is in power to turn the crank.
allrsn on August 4, 2008 at 6:59 PM
I thought that Houdini had died.
Johan Klaus on August 4, 2008 at 6:59 PM
There is a lot of research going on in all area’s it will be fun to see what we come up with in the next 20 years.
allrsn on August 4, 2008 at 6:51 PM
yes there is. i often think that this is the reason for the major attack by the environmentalism nutcases IRT manmade global warming. there are so many inventions on the way to lower our oil usage and INCREASE our standard of living and increase our wealth and power as a country and “western civilization” if only carbon is not an issue. Add into the mix that we have 2-3 trillion of recoverable oil that we kow about and there is no reason why we can’t have cheap energy, a strong vastly eathly and powerful country for centuries to come. Include alternitives and energy diversifcation and it becomes even clearer that the USA could become and stay the world’s super power.
However if you make CO2 the bad guy in the equation of energy usage the USa will all be riding bikes and horses soon.
and “other” countires like Russia, China India will be the superpowers.
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 6:59 PM
This newbie is making Jimmy Carter look good.
jukin on August 4, 2008 at 7:00 PM
allrsn on August 4, 2008 at 6:59 PM
so what would happen if that heat could be captured in the form of steam and turn a small electrical engine. Much like the steam engines of old yet instead of using the steam for motion we use it for electric generation?
unseen on August 4, 2008 at 7:02 PM
Here come the taxes.
Johan Klaus on August 4, 2008 at 7:02 PM
I agree, totally!
allrsn on August 4, 2008 at 7:04 PM
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