Obama as Robin Hood
posted at 12:20 pm on August 1, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Barack Obama has released his “Emergency Economic Plan,” a clever mechanism that owes much more to Robin Hood than Milton Friedman. Obama plans to impose windfall-profits taxes on oil companies, and then redistribute the funds to taxpayers in the form of one-time rebates of $1000 per family. Obama also plans on spending an additional $50 billion, half of which will go to state governments:
Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) on Friday announced an “Emergency Economic Plan” that would give families a stimulus check of $1,000 each, funded in part by what his presidential campaign calls “windfall profits from Big Oil.”
Details are in this six-page policy paper.
The first part of Obama’s plan is an emergency energy rebate ($500 to individual workers, $1,000 to families) as soon as this fall.
“This rebate will be enough to offset the increased cost of gas for a working family over the next four months,” Obama said. “Or, if you live in a state where it gets very cold in the winter, it will be enough to cover the entire increase in your heating bills. Or you could use the rebate for any of your other bills or even to pay down debt[."]
The Obama campaign simply can’t keep its credentials as a Carter retread hidden. The windfall-profits tax got tried by Jimmy Carter in the last desperate months of his presidency as he tried to demonize oil companies for fuel price increases and shortages. The tax hit decreased domestic production and forced us to import more oil, and it did nothing to relieve weary consumers. Only when Reagan took office and eventually got the tax rescinded, along with other arbitratry tax disincentives towards domestic production, did fuel prices and supply stabilize.
The Congressional Research Service analyzed the Carter-era WPT and called it a complete failure:
[T]he windfall profits tax was forecasted to raise more than $320 billion between 1980 and 1989. However, according to the CRS, the government collected only $80 billion in gross tax revenue ($146 billion in 2004 dollars). The net amount was actually less than this—roughly $40 billion—because the tax was deductible against corporate income.
CRS also found the windfall profits tax had the effect of decreasing domestic production by 3 percent to 6 percent, thereby increasing American dependence on foreign oil sources by 8 percent to 16 percent. A side effect was declining, not increasing, tax collections. Figure 1 clearly shows that while the tax raised considerable revenue in the initial years following its enactment, those revenues declined to almost nothing as the domestic industry collapsed.
The 1980 windfall profits tax was also found to be highly burdensome for the industry to comply with and for the Internal Revenue Service to administer, especially in years when no revenue was raised. It seems unlikely that a new tax could be designed in a less burdensome fashion. Tax Foundation economists estimate that U.S. companies currently spend nearly $150 billion annually to comply with the federal income tax alone. Enacting a new windfall profits tax would add an additional layer of complexity to the federal tax system.
And the most obvious point of all is that the rebates will only give us a one-time relief for the high gas prices, while the new tax will raise the cost of production and delivery for years. Does Obama believe that consumers don’t pay the price for taxation at the pump? And even if that didn’t happen, the 10% margin for the oil industry supports the shareholder price for these companies — in which millions of Americans have money invested through retirement accounts and other investments. Draining the worth of the stock will cost retirement accounts much more than a thousand dollars over the length of the investment, meaning that Obama is stealing from the rich and the middle- and working-class alike just to play Robin Hood now.
Note the use of the word “Emergency” carefully. Democrats in Congress don’t consider fuel prices an emergency; they just skedaddled for the summer without bothering to debate drilling. However, it makes for a nice title for those who want to take drastic action, such as nationalizing industries or slapping on huge new regulatory and tax burdens on the private sector. The desired result: making us a dependent class on the government and undermining investors.
We don’t need Robin Hood redistributionism. We certainly don’t need a return to Jimmy Carter’s disastrous energy policies. We need common sense policies that remove government as a roadblock to responsible energy production. Obviously, Democrats can’t deliver that.
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Robin Hood was what came to my mind too when I read this. Utter stupidity. What’s the likelihood that anyone in the media will point out that Chavez also recently enacted a windfall profits tax…?
CP on August 1, 2008 at 12:24 PM
Of course he fails to realize that SUBSIDIZING OIL will RAISE DEMAND so prices will INCREASE.
Duh, I should be president, um duh.
ThackerAgency on August 1, 2008 at 12:25 PM
Buying votes is what it is.
Sickening.
carbon_footprint on August 1, 2008 at 12:26 PM
Yay! Maybe next Obama will force Wal-mart to buy all our kids $1000 worth of Christmas presents no order to ease the crisis of not everyone having a Wii yet.
aero on August 1, 2008 at 12:27 PM
Let me get this straight, I’ve inflated my tires and changed my spark plugs and we haven’t gotten anymore oil. Now he’s going after my 401K and raising prices at the pump. This is change I can’t believe in.
Les in NC on August 1, 2008 at 12:28 PM
So….wealth redistribution.
amerpundit on August 1, 2008 at 12:29 PM
Another Leftard who subscribes to the “Big Pile” theory of economics. The theory says that sometime in the distant past, there was a big pile of money. Some people got to the pile first and scooped up way more than their “fair share.” They are the ancestors of the people who are well-off today. The ones who were late to the party got the little bit that was left over. They are the ancestors of the “Disadvantaged.” It is the job of government to repair this imbalance by taking money from the well-off and giving it to the Disadvantaged.
The sad thing is that the level of economic literacy in America is so low that there is a large consitituency that thinks this really makes sense. They’re called Democrats.
Cicero43 on August 1, 2008 at 12:29 PM
Robin Hood was not a socialist…
d1carter on August 1, 2008 at 12:30 PM
Hmmm. Steal a bunch of money from a company that produces a critical good. Give it to the consumers.
How will that company make up the loss, I wonder? And what will be for the measure that makes up the loss?
Amazing how equilibrium works, despite the liberal view that if you weigh down one side, the other side will magically stay level.
MadisonConservative on August 1, 2008 at 12:30 PM
Wait.. didn’t robin hood steal from the sheriff..? i.e. gov’mint? and give to the poor which the gov’mint was stealing from?
Gotta get those kid stories right..
Slugg on August 1, 2008 at 12:32 PM
What are you talking about? Oil companies will willingly take the profit hit, not passing the losses on to consumers. Geez, did you not attend your Economics 101 with Professor Jimmy Carter class yet?
amerpundit on August 1, 2008 at 12:32 PM
Actually, Robin Hood was robbing the tax collectors and other beneficiaries of the regime and returning the loot to its proper owners. So, would that he were more like Robin Hood and less like himself.
Akzed on August 1, 2008 at 12:32 PM
Marx/Obama ‘08!
TheUnrepentantGeek on August 1, 2008 at 12:33 PM
Let’s CHANGE the Democratic nominee and quickly. We can’t afford to have this man with this kind of thinking.
And we certainly don’t want him anywhere NEAR our dollar bills that we will have to print after he bankrupts us.
originalpechanga on August 1, 2008 at 12:33 PM
Windfall Profits taxes reduce profitsbility…makes it more expensive for a company to operate, screws the share holders (Know how many average American working class families own stock? Know how many retirement funds, to include state and federal, invest in oil?), and will increase the price of oil. And where is this Obama-esque largesse going to come from? Your pocket. From the tax man, and from the nickel and dime increase the first week in everything at the grocery store….and then $.25 the following few weeks, then a dollar or more….until what you paid $1.00 for today will cost you $5.00 or more (no matter whose picture is on that dollar bill.)
Of course, if you are part of that growing segment of the population (the lower end) who do not pay taxes at all, all of this is “free money.” No wonder they are behind Obama.
coldwarrior on August 1, 2008 at 12:34 PM
It needs to be repeated clearly and emphatically: Democrats have an agenda. They don’t address issues, but use issues an an opportunity to increase gov’t control over individuals and businesses, redistribute income, social engineer, and further socialism. That’s why they don’t want to win wars or become energy independent, why they try to divide the citizenry, why they fabricate national emergencies like global warming, and do all they can to discredit capitalism, religion, our constitutional traditions, and democracy.
Obama’s not the enemy–he’s a functionary of an enemy ideology.
JiangxiDad on August 1, 2008 at 12:35 PM
Exxon is selling off its retail operations because of unprofitability. I read somewhere that their US taxes are more than their profits. So raise them taxes, Hussein! Tax ‘em all to hell and gone!!!
Akzed on August 1, 2008 at 12:36 PM
So Obama’s plan is to expand the federal government through expanded taxation and increase our dependence on the government through redistribution. This shouldn’t surprise anyone.
Why are we trending this direction? Why is it we are fighting to not become more liberal as opposed to fighting to become more conservative?
I think the major fault of conservatism is that it is primarily defensive, maintaining the status quo, rather than aggressively seeking steps toward the conservative ideals.
Exit question: does this comment qualify as hijacking the thread? I’d hate to be banned.
samuelrylander on August 1, 2008 at 12:36 PM
Funny… Obama doesn’t look like the other Robin Hoods you see in the movies.
DubiousD on August 1, 2008 at 12:36 PM
Big Oil is already forking over 50% of it’s pretax profits in federal income taxes….let’s raise it to 100%. BTW – When did BO hire Hugo Chavez as an economic advisor?
David in ATL on August 1, 2008 at 12:36 PM
Looter mentality.
RushBaby on August 1, 2008 at 12:37 PM
Let’s see…I’ll get $1000 from the government, which they will get by taxing the oil companies. I’ll turn right around and give it back to the oil companies in the form of the higher gas prices it’ll take to pay for the tax, plus a bit more to pay for people to do all the paperwork involved. So the kindhearted stupidity of the liberals will once again raise my cost of living.
backwoods conservative on August 1, 2008 at 12:37 PM
Who will be the best in a debate @ knocking this Socialist Moron’s ideas out of the park? Mitt
kflynn on August 1, 2008 at 12:38 PM
With GM losing so much money, Obama should tax every GM customer $1000 and give the money back to GM.
pedestrian on August 1, 2008 at 12:38 PM
Liberal economic policies are even worse than what they have in Europe. Over there people are at least honest enough to pay for the social system that they have. They pay in many ways: through taxes or inability to afford better housing or what have you. What the Democrats keep proposing is always at the expense of someone else.
Plus, now we’re going to be paying people’s debt with taxpayers’ money? WTF? I didn’t have a job for three months two years ago. It took us 2 years to eliminate credit cards debts. Now I’ll be paying debts owed by some morons? Unbelievable.
freevillage on August 1, 2008 at 12:38 PM
OK, here again I have to ask this question.
Prior to B.O. deciding to be All Powerful Grand PoohBah of the Universe, this guy was the junior Senator from Illinois. During that time, as now, Illinois has become a cesspool of political corruption, not to mention an economic and financial time bomb waiting for the fuse to run out.
At no time, I mean NO TIME, did we here in Illinois hear so much as a peep from B.O. on how he had the solution to everything under the sun. We didn’t see much as a brief glimpse of the Hope and Change he has been pandering about the landscape with his Travelling Snake Oil Show. Yet now he is this literally wellspring of solutions and ideas, none of which seemed to come from his fertile mind before he started his campaign.
This latest idea of his is even goofier than the others ones that he’s been flinging around, but as with everything else he has had come flying out from between his teeth, some people are buying it like their lives depended on it.
Which is why, once again, I have to ask, why, if he had all these great ideas while he was Senator, didn’t he employ them here in Illinois as the Ultimate Test of his vast superior powers. Then, if he indeed was able to turn things around in Illinois to the point that it was now the Promised Land, he could easily say something like “Look at the good and great things I have done for my own state, and imagine what I can do for the whole country!”
But we didn’t see any of that here in Illinois.
So what makes people out there think he even has the ability to pull off 1/3 of what he says he can do for them, when he didn’t do ANY of it for his own home state?
pilamaye on August 1, 2008 at 12:38 PM
Ooh, ooh! After he makes the oil companies and Wal-Mart give us $1000 each, Obama can make Microsoft give us all Vista for free! Oh, wait, nobody wants it. Shoot. Okay, then, he can just make Microsoft give us all cash, too. Okay, we’re up $3k now if we vote for Obama. What other money-grubbing successful capitalist bastards can we get the Thug-in-Chief to mug for us?
aero on August 1, 2008 at 12:41 PM
Sorry, I chose instead Global Relations 171 with Professor Jimmy Carter, where we were taught that the gutsiest way to deal with a radical Islamist republic who takes hostages is to freeze their funds in the US.
MadisonConservative on August 1, 2008 at 12:41 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome to my underground Lair.
there it is on August 1, 2008 at 12:41 PM
LEAVE ROBIN HOOD ALONE!
Karl on August 1, 2008 at 12:41 PM
Tru dat.
Liberalism cannot abide capitalism. It must replace it with socialism in order for it’s ideology to persist. Within capitalism (as long as it remains capitalism), entrepreneurs and risk takers can never be taxed out of the upper class because they can price their tax increases into their product prices. The lower and middle classes will bear the burdens in any economic system man can create. With capitalism, that burden is much lighter than with any other system.
samuelrylander on August 1, 2008 at 12:42 PM
But, but, but… I thought that all we had to do was check our tire pressure.
Anyway, why is this neo-Marxist dunce writing a “policy paper”? He’s a sitting Senator and is free to introduce actual legislation, and I would urge him to do so. May I suggest that Maxine Waters could be his co-sponsor.
Buy Danish on August 1, 2008 at 12:43 PM
Robbin’ in the Hood?
coldwarrior on August 1, 2008 at 12:43 PM
Stealing from the rich, giving to the poor…
Did we not read the same story?
MadisonConservative on August 1, 2008 at 12:44 PM
Obama’s shell game promises relief over the next four months. Does anyone else see the political game he is playing?
onlineanalyst on August 1, 2008 at 12:45 PM
This is the kind of proposal that McCain’s people should be out pounding down instead of producing weak ads. Sadly, I don’t expect anything out of McCain’s poorly run organization with will even address this stuff directly.
highhopes on August 1, 2008 at 12:46 PM
I’m not sure which is worse, the fact that a major party presidential nominee, with a real shot at winning, is spouting and (presumably) believing this garbage, or that approximately half of this country (presumably) buy into it as well as a good idea.
Very very scary.
JamesLee on August 1, 2008 at 12:46 PM
Someone pointed out Baracks accomplishments to me:
I would have thought, at the very least, that having been the first black President of the Harvard Law Review might have been slightly more important than having written a book. Or having one of the leading law professors in the country call him one of the two most impressive law students he ever encountered, not to mention “the most exciting research assistant.”
Or perhaps leading a voter registration effort which succeeded in registering 150,000 out of 400,000 unregistered African Americans in Illinois over a six month period.
Or having shepherded the most significant campaign finance reform law in 25 years through the Illinois State Senate.
Or having persuaded law enforcement agencies to endorse laws which required that homicide interrogations be taped.
Or having helped shepherd through Illinois’s first racial profiling law.
Or having been a chief sponsor of a law enhancing tax credits for the working poor.
Or having been a significant player in negotiations over welfare reform.
Or having pushed successfully to increase child-care subsidies.
(Mind you this was all in a Republican controlled Senate).
Or having become only the fifth African American in history to become a US Senator, winning with the largest margin in Illinois history.
Or having co-sponsored immigration legislation with John McCain.
Or having co-sponsored non-proliferation legislation with Richard Lugar.
Or having co-sponsored legislation banning legislatures from accepting free travel from lobbyists and to require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions with Russ Feingold.
Or having sponsored an amendment which provided one year of job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries.
Or having spoken out early and forcefully against the Iraq invasion.
What say YOU?
originalpechanga on August 1, 2008 at 12:47 PM
I wish people would stop perverting robin hood.
Robin Hood, in most versions, took money from an overtaxing government (prince john and the sheriff) and gave it back to the people. He did not steal from the rich and give to the poor.
lorien1973 on August 1, 2008 at 12:51 PM
I agree that this is a lousy idea. But offshore drilling is not the answer either:
I think that increasing fuel efficiency standards and investing more in mass transit so that we can get by with less oil altogether would be a better idea.
AJB on August 1, 2008 at 12:51 PM
QFT
samuelrylander on August 1, 2008 at 12:52 PM
My thoughts exactly.
Where is the Sheriff of Nottingham when we need him?
Anna on August 1, 2008 at 12:52 PM
you come after my money Messiah and we will be having another ruby ridge on our hands .
I heat my home on propane i am instaling solar for my home , i have been driving a toyota that gets 32mpg my tires are inflated my car is tuned up , Now STFU and dont you dare come to take what is mine away from me to buy votes .
Mojack420 on August 1, 2008 at 12:52 PM
So that makes him a vigilante. In either case, Robin Hood was no hero.
Anna on August 1, 2008 at 12:53 PM
Well sure, which is why we’re also called “reactionaries.” Conservatism is normal. Liberalism is theft and violence. If I catch someone crawling through my window I will react. This is why “reactionaries” are easily painted as clumsy and their efforts are often uncoordinated, just like people scrambling to defend themselves against a coordinated surprise attack.
Akzed on August 1, 2008 at 12:56 PM
And yet, two weeks ago, when Pres Bush rescinds the executive order prohibiting drilling, the price of oil drops $15 a barrel in one day.
That’s just one step toward actually putting a hole in the ground. How much of the price we pay for oil right now is based on the fear factor of getting it from other countries? If congress allowed drilling, you would see an immediately massive drop in prices.
samuelrylander on August 1, 2008 at 12:56 PM
The big problem with “redistribution” is that there is a difference between someone making $400,000/year from a trust fund, and making $400,000 a year salary as a corporate vice president. For large purchases like homes and cars, the trust fund baby has a bank account somewhere to drain and pay for them up front. The corporate vice president of more humble origins generally has to get a mortgage and a car loan. So when confiscatory taxes hit, the trust fund babies can simply shift assets out of the way, and live without having them ready at hand for a while. The salaried and productive wealthy (who can’t afford this luxury with their ongoing expenses) then get stuck with a disproportionately high tax bill, as the politicians’ ambitions with the taxes of the “wealthy” never revise downwards when tax receipts aren’t what was projected.
Sekhmet on August 1, 2008 at 12:57 PM
He should stop those conference calls with the Castro brothers.
Nethicus on August 1, 2008 at 12:58 PM
Buried on page 3 of the business section of my local paper was an interesting story. It seems that by conserving, buying more fuel efficient cars and taking mass transit, the federal highway fund are not getting enough money for road repairs and projects so taxes will be raised.
Les in NC on August 1, 2008 at 12:58 PM
When he puts on green tights and throws a quiver on his back, then I’ll take him more seriously.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 1, 2008 at 12:59 PM
Isn’t this tax rebate, but taxing big oil? How can these people miss all the money going into a big hole in the ground called pork, yet continue and try to paint an entire industry as evil?
I love how they are gunning for big oil and are all investors.
Hening on August 1, 2008 at 12:59 PM
Any moron can sponsor legislation. In fact, many of them have.
This list is sort of washed out by McCain’s accomplsiments, dontcha think?
Akzed on August 1, 2008 at 12:59 PM
The point is, Obama is far closer to Prince John than Robin Hood in this analogy.
lorien1973 on August 1, 2008 at 1:01 PM
That’s exactly what happened in California. Rush was talking about that a week or two ago. The government then raises taxes. The citizens bear the initial cost of the “upgrades” to more efficient technologies in order to gain the long term smaller costs of transportation, and the government then steps in and takes the benefit away by increasing taxes. Government is an oppressor of the people.
samuelrylander on August 1, 2008 at 1:02 PM
Robin Hood stood up to a pretender to the Crown (Prince John) while the rightful King (Richard I) was abroad fighting in the Crusades.
He was like the anti-socialist. Giving money wrongfully taken by the government back to the people whom it belonged to.
Techie on August 1, 2008 at 1:02 PM
These people are such freeeeeaking idiots. They ask – “why aren’t you producing more?” Then their solution is to TAKE more money away from the producers. Then they will complain – “we taxed the oil companies more and they STILL aren’t producing more.”
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH! Make it stop! I can’t take it any more.
Coincidentally (har) there was a little thing called a slump in the oil industry in the mid-80s. Lots of people laid off, etc. So in addition to the hit this makes on the economy there will be more people filing for unemployment. It’s really like the perfect Democrat solution – do something that makes things WORSE, then they have an excuse to step in to “fix” it.
rockhead on August 1, 2008 at 1:04 PM
History would only call him a vigilante if Prince John would have won.
samuelrylander on August 1, 2008 at 1:04 PM
Painfully naive lunacy like this is an excellent example of how President Bambi will discredit Democrats and liberalism, and turn the tide of the Congress back to Republicans.
misterpeasea on August 1, 2008 at 1:05 PM
To be honest, yeah, Obama does not fit in at all with traditional accounts of Robin Hood (who never actually regularly gave any money to the poor, that’s a modern addition). I don’t really like Robin Hood, and I don’t like Obama, I was just trying to keep in the spirit of the thread.
Maybe Obama is a closer fit to James Taggert, or any of the other looters who sought to undermine their competition to advance themselves.
Anna on August 1, 2008 at 1:06 PM
“In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life’s prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly—only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs![”
Karl Marx 1875
TheSitRep on August 1, 2008 at 1:06 PM
I don’t know, I have a hard time believingthat the oil companies need to be charging so much for their product. They are enjoying record profits — more than any other business in the history of civilization. If not windfall tax, then perhaps some anti0trust type of investigation is called for. Bottom line, the oil companies are fleecing us. period.
?
max1 on August 1, 2008 at 1:08 PM
Would that it were so. Richard named John his surrogate, no?
And the concept of “money wrongfully taken” doesn’t apply. Everything was the property of the king – land, people, money – the people were just holding the money for the king.
And the cartoon movie of Robin Hood is still the best Robin Hood movie I’ve ever seen. That Maid Marian was a fox.
misterpeasea on August 1, 2008 at 1:09 PM
Let’s define which version of Robin Hood we’re talking about, and from what time period. After all, the term robinhood was applied to thieves in the middle ages, and not ’stealing from tax collectors to give to po’ people’ type of thieving.
Anna on August 1, 2008 at 1:09 PM
Thanks Ed, it always cracks me up to see the Obama *claw of the jew* photo on the front page.
ChrisM on August 1, 2008 at 1:09 PM
Mayhaps. No one voting for Obama knows who Taggart is or who John Galt is either.
Even though I do think Atlas Shrugged had the greatest riff against Robin Hood ever.
lorien1973 on August 1, 2008 at 1:09 PM
You’re so bad.
Anna on August 1, 2008 at 1:10 PM
Keep talking Barry, just keep talking. You’re doing a great job there, Senator.
rockhauler on August 1, 2008 at 1:10 PM
Agreed. On both points.
Anna on August 1, 2008 at 1:11 PM
Step away from the liberal media, max. They make about 9-10% profit. You want to be upset? Microsoft makes more than 20% profit.
Bottom line, Microsoft is fleecing us. Period. And the oil companies are not. Period. The government is.
misterpeasea on August 1, 2008 at 1:13 PM
Hey Barry, how much did the average law firm take in last year?
You’re supposed to be a lawyer. Do you think law firms profits are “excessive”?
Of course not. The economic plan for Democrats consists of suing ourselves into prosperity.
No need to do any productive work whatsoever, our rigged “legal” system will do the work for us.
NoDonkey on August 1, 2008 at 1:13 PM
I heard Rush talk about that as well and predicted it to my democratic co-workers a while back. Yesterday they asked me what websites I looked at because I would tell them things they did not learn until days or weeks later. I referred them to Rush and of course Hot Air.
Les in NC on August 1, 2008 at 1:13 PM
That book should be required reading for all seniors. Along with economics.
Yeah, I’m dreaming. But every day, I thank my lucky stars economics was a required class, and that it was taught by a conservative. He’s probably been forced to retire by now.
Anna on August 1, 2008 at 1:14 PM
max1–what do you propose the oil companies to do? They already give twice as much to the feds in taxes as they make in profits–i.e. a 66% tax rate. Are you suggesting that they no longer make a profit at all–i.e. a 100% tax rate?
Why are they charging so much? Because they have to PAY that much. Oil is being bought by the highest bidder. That’s India and China. Do you suggest forbidding any oil being sold to China and India? Take their demand away, and oil will drop. Course, that means going to war, doesn’t it?
Vanceone on August 1, 2008 at 1:21 PM
I thought he didn’t like gimmiks.
jharada on August 1, 2008 at 1:21 PM
max1 on August 1, 2008 at 1:08 PM
The oil companies have been “investigated” quite a number of times in the past few decades, and at NO time was any evidence of oil companies engaging in any schemes to fleece the public.
it is the public’s ignorance (and that of a significant portion of Congress, as well) of profits and how they apply to business in a capitalist economic matrix. On average, over the past few decades, “profits” of “big oil” have averaged 10%…a penny on each dime invested.
What exites people to froth at the mouth, people such as Shep Smith on Fox last night, as an example, is that seemingly huge amount of cash. But, look at the internals. Getting a deep ocean oil rig designed, built, outfitted, towed to its location, leasing of the footprint, and completing drilling, establishing a pipeline to shore or an ocean distribution platform costs about half a billion dollars today. All of this money upfront…before the first drop of oil passes up the drill hole and into the distribution system. There is no guarantee that any oil will be extracted, though current technologies have lessened the number of “dry holes” drilled in recent years.
Who pays this half a billion dollars? The oil companies. if they are successful in finding oil and extracting it, they have to pay off the costs of drilling (i.e., designing and building movement of the platform, leasing the footprint, etc.) and then they have to pay the investors…you and me…through our retirement finds or direct investment through stock purchases.
Multiply the number of American oil company ocean rigs by that half a billion more or less… One hell of a lot of cash being spent to find and extractct oil.
Bill Gates/Microsoft has a profit margin of nearly 20% (or did for the past decade) and no one seems to be crying about that.
Yes, it certainly looks like a ton of money…but profit and profitibility are vastly different animals. Most Americans haven’t a clue about either it seems.
Who, then, is fleecing us? Anyone who tries to interfer with natural market forces. [I'd investigate Congress first...a lot more potential for discovery of fleecing there than yet another "invesitgation" of "Big Oil."]
coldwarrior on August 1, 2008 at 1:22 PM
On Microsoft Office, for example, Microsoft spends like $15 for each $300 sale it makes. Its losses come from its game and online divisions. Last I remember at least.
lorien1973 on August 1, 2008 at 1:22 PM
The oil companies have less of a profit margin than most businesses do. They are not driving up oil prices, the weak dollar, and demand (see China, India) is driving up the price world wide. This is a world wide market. What do you want the oil companies to do? Become like the Salvation Army and give it away? They are a business and should be awarded when they do business well. How about when oil was $25 a barrel and the oil companies were struggling?
carbon_footprint on August 1, 2008 at 1:28 PM
I also might add, let’s all get angry at Hollywood and professional athletes for their insane salaries.
carbon_footprint on August 1, 2008 at 1:30 PM
lorien1973 on August 1, 2008 at 1:22 PM
Talk about fleecing.
A microprocessor, that thingie that makes your computer work, costs about $4.00 or so to make. For a while, a number of guys I know in the business made tie tacks out of them. Factories in Teagu, Korea, for example, pay a lot less that US wages to produce these things, which are labeled and marketed worldwide under any number of proprietary names…Dell, gateway, whomever. Because there is DEMAND for these things, the manufacturer can charge whatever the market will bear for them…and control the SUPPLY of them if the price dips below desired levels.
The entire computer industry is daily manipulating price.
The losses Microsoft finds in online and games divisions is due to hackers and computer-savvy “geeks” being able to replicate and reproduce the games and online programs…thus satisfying DEMAND for high priced Microsoft games and online programs through a cheaper source of SUPPLY. Microsoft cannot control this part of the market, hence their losses.
coldwarrior on August 1, 2008 at 1:30 PM
Yeah, Bill didn’t become the richest man in the world by doing good works for the poor.
Not that I was serious about fleecing. That economy of the 90s was the Microsoft economy, not the Clinton economy.
I really hate that people fall for that “$12 billion dollar profit largest in history” crap.
misterpeasea on August 1, 2008 at 1:30 PM
“How about when oil was $25 a barrel and the oil companies were struggling?”
They are more than free to take a loss.
That’s the Democrat’s idea of a “free” market.
Corporations are “free” to take losses.
Profits should be confiscated.
Which of course has nothing to do with businesses moving overseas. That’s only because of deep, dark, conspiracy theories, according to Democrats.
NoDonkey on August 1, 2008 at 1:32 PM
I have been reluctant to come right out and say this but here goes:
In my 58 years as a citizen of the best country in human history, I have witnessed the average Americans value system be eroded to the “what’s in it for me” culture or the “what have you done for me lately” mode.
If the big “O” was to start passing out $1000 bills on the corner of Main Street USA, I have no doubt that the average Joe and Jane Q would line up around the block with their hands out and scream for more. They wouldn’t give a tinkers damn were it came from. “Big Oil”, their next door neighbor, the Gubmint, makes no differance, just “gimme that…I deserve it”
“Half the country” no, I’d say probably closer to 90%.
It’s just a sign of the times.
I could be wrong. I hope I am.
1GooDDaDDy on August 1, 2008 at 1:32 PM
Now there’s something you’ll never see in the media:
ANGELINA JOLIE GETS RECORD $20 MILLION PROFIT FOR 6 WEEKS OF “WORK” – “WORK” DOESN’T INVOLVE DRILLING, OR PUMPING, OR SHIPPING, OR REFINING, JUST PRETENDING TO BE SOMEONE ELSE WHILE HAVING LOTS OF ASSISTANTS APPLY MAKE-UP TO HER PRETTY FACE
misterpeasea on August 1, 2008 at 1:33 PM
I hate Socialists. Quick, easy lesson for all Dems…even though some laws and some taxes ARE necessary and/or justified, ALL laws and ALL taxes (in one way or another) remove freedom from people.
davenp35 on August 1, 2008 at 1:39 PM
“Denial… it’s not just a river in Egypt!”
I had fun pointing out to my church youth group that even if your “stealing from the rich to give to the poor”, you’re still STEALING… and that’s wrong.
dominigan on August 1, 2008 at 1:42 PM
1GooDDaDDy on August 1, 2008 at 1:32 PM
Indeed. The percentage c/b a little high, but the sentiment is right on target, sadly. We’ve become a country of whiners, sissified wussies. This is going to be a very significant time in our history. We can still tilt the balance toward national and personal independence.
Entelechy on August 1, 2008 at 1:42 PM
Let me get this straight…..I took my personal, hard-earned money, after I’d paid the exorbitant taxes on my earnings, and invested some in Conoco, which has been doing well — but not all that well — as an investment, and paying me dividends. And the government is saying that they want to take away money that this American company earned for me, an owner, because a bunch of Saudi oil ticks are making a killing running a cartel?
And they’re going to wisely spend this boon by giving it to people living hand-to-mouth so they can consume it on gasoline, food, and rent?
And they wonder why their approval ratings are in single digits?
cthulhu on August 1, 2008 at 1:43 PM
Didn’t that guy who ran against Nixon want to give every American $1000 of someone else’s money?
You remember him, right? Right? Yeah, good ol’ What’s-his-name….
MrScribbler on August 1, 2008 at 1:45 PM
I don’t think he’s anything like Robin.
- The Cat
MirCat on August 1, 2008 at 1:57 PM
Socialist. There can be no doubt anymore.
WisCon on August 1, 2008 at 2:01 PM
How does this differ from what Gov. Palin has done in Alaska?
lowandslow on August 1, 2008 at 2:01 PM
misterpeasea:
Yes! Obama can make Angelina Jolie give each of us $1000, too! She doesn’t need that much money.
Who else can the Thug-in-Chief mug for us? With Obama as president, soon we’ll all be able to quit and sit around on our behinds all day watching Oprah and eating bon-bons while Angelina, Bill Gates, and Big Oil do all the work for us. Wait, did someone say Oprah? (rubbing hands in greedy glee)
aero on August 1, 2008 at 2:02 PM
lowandslow:
What is your deal? Are you Gov. Palin’s ex-brother-in-law or what?
aero on August 1, 2008 at 2:06 PM
No, all I hear is what a great conservative Palin is yet the only difference between this plan and what Palin is doing in Alaska is Palin wants to give out $1200.00 to every man, women and child. How does that fit in to your conservative ideology?
lowandslow on August 1, 2008 at 2:15 PM
Obama’s going to give me $500? What am I gonna do with that? Not to be ungrateful or anything, but maybe it pays down a bill, but it doesn’t pay down every bill every month. The short-term quick fix kinda stuff sounds good, and it may even feel good that first month when you get that check, and then you go out and you buy a pair of earrings.
Quisp on August 1, 2008 at 2:18 PM
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