You NEVER have the right to resist arrest, period.

Depends on the state. If it is an illegal arrest in Texas, you have the right to resist it, all the way to using reasonable deadly force.

How many times do we hear about cops wrestling with perps and then being killed with their own guns? I’d like to see the statistics on that.

peacenprosperity on July 31, 2008 at 8:03 AM

I’d like to see the stats.

The cops didn’t just decide “oh, there’s a fine upstanding citizen, let’s beat the sh*t out of him”.

Easy to say until it happens to you.

It’s really easy for one guy to subdue another guy, if the one guy doesn’t mind killing the other guy. But cops in America aren’t there to kill people, they are there to subdue the other guy, cuff and stuff him, and let the criminal justice system deal with him.

If you are not dead, there are a number of ways to continue to resist confinement, and that can make you more than one person can handle.

And, to silverstars point, you NEVER have the right to physically assault an officer including grabbing his weapon. If you are too stupid to know better then to struggle with police, then expect the consequences.

SilverStar830 on July 31, 2008 at 1:06 AM

You and I disagreed on the taser on the side of the road deal but I agree with you here 100%.

empty hand techniques would have been more appropriate in such a situation.

How many times do we hear about cops wrestling with perps and then being killed with their own guns? I’d like to see the statistics on that.

after the first two hits, he was beginning to behave

No he wasn’t. Right up until the end of the clip the other cop was trying to get him rolled over and his arm behind his back and he was resisting. Looks like standard procedure.

PBA Lynch complains about the perp gripping the baton, I would too knowing that they will beat me with it. These defenders should always put their mothers and fathers in place of the perp and think how would they react to the police beating on them over a bag of ice.

We definitely need a step by step report of events to know whether the perp behaved properly and what instigated the arrest.

Christ said it best do to others as you would have done unto you.

When it comes to Black-on-Black abuse we must remember not all blacks are the same. You have blacks from the Caribbean, Africa, and native born and sometimes they don’t like each other in a very similar way that a klan minded white person doesn’t like blacks, Jews, or Catholics.

I would like to know what was happening on the ramp. It looks like others were going to get involved but were being stopped by other pedestrians.

Here is a link to the NY reports: http://www.nycpba.org/news/index.html

If you can watch that and not deplore it, you’re a helluva lot “tougher” than me.

Who can make sense of all this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_ynmzbFsh4

Mr. Wednesday Night on July 31, 2008 at 1:47 AM

Pot’ll do that to a bloke.

- The Cat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_ynmzbFsh4

You ever going to fix that eyesore you call a website Thacker? I can’t imagine your insurance business does very well on the interwebs with that monstrosity of a site posing as an appealing way to conduct business with your company.

Also, try quoting people in full context. No one says he should have been shot.

There are many different slices in the use-of-force pie from hands on pain compliance techniques, to impact weapon/less-lethal techniques, to chemical agents, to deadly force if necessary.

Generally I would agree with Capitalist Pig here. But I think I’m going to go with this guy. Cops should just shoot the guy who might be resisting. After all, they didn’t follow the orders that the nice cop asked. How dare the man bring ice to a party when they were specifically looking for liquor (illegal search). That man was lucky he only got caned (an actual punishment in SE Asian countries – but typically only after a sentence in court). This resistor should have been shot. All people who resist arrest should be shot immediately because whatever the cop says goes.

I don’t hate cops, but I do fear them. They have way too much power with very little oversight. Cops scare the crap out of me.

Time for another 500-comment police brutality thread

…you wish

Still, not one beating or tasing.

Who do I complain to?

Reasonable Force is generally defined in Law Enforcement as; the amount of force reasonably necessary to effect the arrest of a non-compliant arrestee/suspect, and/or to protect the public and/or officer(s) from bodily injury or death at the hands of another person while effecting an arrest and/or defending oneself from an attacker.

Think of it as a pie. There are many different slices in the use-of-force pie from hands on pain compliance techniques, to impact weapon/less-lethal techniques, to chemical agents, to deadly force if necessary. You do not have to go from one step to the next as if climbing a ladder in specific order. It is a pie and you may move from one slice to any other slice in the pie as the fluidity of the situation dictates.

Some Law Enforcement agencies refer to it as the; Use of Force Continuum

This guy was obviously non-compliant, physically and passively.

Popping a resisting arrestee with a baton about his extremities while avoiding the Head, Neck, and Spine whenever feasible (as demonstrated in this video), to gain compliance and actually effect the arrest with minimum risk of injury to the arresting officer(s) and bystanders is well stated and understand in ALL Police Departments Policies and Procedures as acceptable.

This is much ado about NOTHING.

There is nothing to see here.

Move along.

If they couldn’t subdue him without the stick then perhaps knitting is more thier style?

Seriously, if the perp threw a punch, kick, or bit, he deserved the stick. Resisting isn’t enough to justify. This is why we are taught pain compliance contact controls (with your hands on pressure points) at the police academy. Once you let go, the pain goes away.

CapitalistPig on July 30, 2008 at 10:24 PM

Obviously you missed his advice as well. It is a comedy bit.

While I don’t condone the police kicking anyone’s ass, some people just ask for it, and some people get what they are asking for – and then cry about being abused by the cops. I have no sympathy for people who do that.

Best way I have seen that makes situations end on a note where no one gets their ass kicked….is do what the officer says. Anything other than that and it’s anyone’s guess where it could lead.

wepeople on July 30, 2008 at 10:58 PM

If you are in law enforcement then you know that we are guided by the basic principle of escalation and deescalation of force. We are not in the business of giving “penalty strikes” with the baton, regardless of what this guy had done. The window to perform such strikes with a baton is open for a very short amount of time…then it closes. This officer exhibited terribly poor judgment and control. The loss of his emotional control was evident by the fact that he couldn’t even control his baton. Had he been a recruit, he would have FAILED even the loosest criteria on deescalation of force.

Now, as to the dead cop videos. No one wants to see another dead hero cop on the street, which is why I am such a huge proponent of defensive tactics and staying fit. But, we do NO GOOD to our profession when some moron who obviously needs a use of force refresher ends up on YouTube.

wepeople on July 30, 2008 at 10:58 PM

It all about the traffic. The comments and web traffic that is.

Plus the comments are interesting…. yes!