Video: Time for another 500-comment police brutality thread
posted at 5:44 pm on July 30, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Another day, another NYPD officer stripped of his gun and badge while IA investigates footage of him dispensing a bit too much nuance to a perp. Needless to say, this is a closer call than the last clip, especially given the cops’ claim that he attacked them first:
Cephus said he was bringing ice into a park, when he encountered two police officers checking for liquor. He dropped his bag, and says he was hit 10 to 12 times on the shoulder and upper arms, before a bystander’s camera even started.
In the complaint, Officer Harrington and his partner said Cephus appeared drunk, and when they stopped him, he struck them with an umbrella and his fists.
“I would never do that,” Cephus said. “I would never hit an officer.”
PBA head Patrick Lynch says Cephus resisted and held onto the baton.
“What I saw was a police officer acting appropriately, using the necessary amount of force to put this person under arrest,” he said, adding it was not excessive force.
Exit question: Should we expect a Reverend Al rally in protest? In this particular case, I’m skeptical. Click the image to watch.
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If you don’t want any trouble don’t go looking for it…they shoulda popped the person taping it too for that matter…
DCJeff on July 30, 2008 at 5:48 PM
I don’t know. The guy looked pretty uncooperative in the beginning. A few hits to the thigh? Meh.
progressoverpeace on July 30, 2008 at 5:49 PM
He does appear to be resisting arrest, but I honestly can’t see anything in that video that shows he should have been hit with a baton.
Esthier on July 30, 2008 at 5:49 PM
WTF?
Esthier on July 30, 2008 at 5:49 PM
Yeah, this doesn’t seem soooo bad. I think a lot depends on how much damage those batons can do. The guy obviously is not cooperating. If those strikes will break a leg, it’s excessive. If they’ll just bruise, I’ll give the benefit of the doubt to the cop.
Tom_Shipley on July 30, 2008 at 5:50 PM
From this video, I agree. The man was clearly resisting arrest.
What’s wrong with people?!? DO WHAT THE OFFICER TELLS YOU TO DO. That’s it.
JetBoy on July 30, 2008 at 5:50 PM
This is why they should stop crying about taser use.
bj1126 on July 30, 2008 at 5:50 PM
the guy is resisting arrest…
Ropera on July 30, 2008 at 5:51 PM
Rule: Dark people get hit with the baton. Light colored people not hit with the baton.
/
carbon_footprint on July 30, 2008 at 5:51 PM
oh please all he had to do was give the cops his hands so they could cuff him he resisted got beat and still was fighting against getting cuffed up . cry me a river and call the whambulance
Mojack420 on July 30, 2008 at 5:51 PM
Resisting arrest warrants being hit with the baton.
JetBoy on July 30, 2008 at 5:51 PM
Oh darn…black on black? I guess Jessie and Al won’t have anything to do this weekend.
DanKenton on July 30, 2008 at 5:52 PM
Dude’s resisting arrest, but still.
McCain camp emails to say that we don’t do that at Gitmo.
Spirit of 1776 on July 30, 2008 at 5:52 PM
As a white Euro-American, I am actually never offended when I see a black officer rough up a white person. Race never enters the equation.
carbon_footprint on July 30, 2008 at 5:53 PM
Whoopin’ the hell out of that perp!
txsurveyor on July 30, 2008 at 5:53 PM
I was one of the staunchest defenders of the tackling cop, but I didn’t like this one. I’ll usually give the benefit of the doubt, but here…I dunno, the man on the ground looks harmless.
jimmy the notable on July 30, 2008 at 5:53 PM
Is the “suspect” black???
Okay, ignore my posts.
carbon_footprint on July 30, 2008 at 5:53 PM
it looks like a spring loaded baton , Im not sure it is has the ability to shatter a shin or thigh bone , more like the guys going to have a few bruises and welts . Not one shot looked to be placed in an area that would do any serious damage , no head shots no kidney shots not hits to areas where vital organs are . NYC needs to man up and stand behind then boys in blue
Mojack420 on July 30, 2008 at 5:56 PM
If you don’t submit, the police will hit.
These were not wild swings of rage, but pointed hits to convince him to place his hands behind his back. And of course the tape starts after the process has been going on for a while.
Zaire67 on July 30, 2008 at 5:57 PM
So you’re a cop with a gun on his belt, and some drunken sob is rolling around resisting your efforts to get him on his belly & cuff him, what would you do?
peski on July 30, 2008 at 5:57 PM
black and blue
Mojack420 on July 30, 2008 at 5:58 PM
At first he’s resisting, after the first two hits, he was beginning to behave. But the cop just kept on hitting him. Perhaps he was still resisting but it doesn’t look like it from here. They should’ve just tased him. I usually side with the cops, but not so sure this time. Gotta watch it a few more times to see.
Tony737 on July 30, 2008 at 5:58 PM
It depends on what she looks like.
MB007 on July 30, 2008 at 5:58 PM
Let me rephrase. I didn’t see anything that would make me hit the man with a baton in that he isn’t harming the officers or anyone else.
If it’s policy to hit someone just because he won’t put his hands behind his back even though the officers have him basically locked down, then I don’t care to argue that.
Esthier on July 30, 2008 at 5:59 PM
It’s pretty hard to tell, the video is so small. It looks like maybe the guy is resisting a bit, but I’m not sure what he’s resisting… Were they trying to get him to roll over and face the ground so they could cuff his hands behind his back? The way one of the cops was pinning him to the ground I don’t see how he could’ve rolled over while in that position, but the camera veers away just before the cop starts hitting him.
And then there is also that obnoxious ad that keeps popping up at the beginning.
FloatingRock on July 30, 2008 at 6:01 PM
Are you saying those oppressive black cops were being eeevil racists toward the black perp?
misterpeasea on July 30, 2008 at 6:01 PM
The problem here is that resisting in the manner he is becomes very dangerous very quickly for cops. Hidden weapons are produced quickly and with deadly results to cops in situations like this. I would much rather see a guy take a beating than explain to a spouse that their loved one isn’t coming home because we are too weak to deal with the consequences of videos like this.
bj1126 on July 30, 2008 at 6:03 PM
On 2nd look, he seems to be still resisting, but also not putting his hands behind his back because he’s trying to block the baton hits. The baton flying out of the cop’s hand will make this look wirse than it really is. Again, next time, just tase him.
Tony737 on July 30, 2008 at 6:03 PM
How does wailing on the guy with a baton help get the cuffs on? Must be a submission thing, but it seems like with 3 officers on the scene they could’ve gotten the guy’s hands behind his back without resorting to blunt force trauma.
RightOFLeft on July 30, 2008 at 6:03 PM
I don’t know Bro, I think a tasing may have been controversial too.
forest on July 30, 2008 at 6:03 PM
If my partner already has one of the man’s arms in his?
I’d probably pin his other arm and legs, assuming, that is, that I’m a man who is large enough to do that (I’m not, but that’s also why I’m not a cop), which that officer appears to be.
Honestly, after the first couple of hits, I don’t see how they gained anything by continuing to hit the man. Do you see something I’m missing?
Esthier on July 30, 2008 at 6:04 PM
+1
JetBoy on July 30, 2008 at 6:05 PM
And I was on the other side of that argument, but on this one I’m a little more inclined to side with the cop since it appears that the guy was, I think, resisting, although not very vigorously.
FloatingRock on July 30, 2008 at 6:06 PM
Sure. Rather a hit with a stick than a dead cop.
But it seems to me that they had the situation under control and that the beating didn’t help.
If the guy did hit one of the cops before the video was rolling, then it’s entirely possible the cop got angry. That too can quickly turn dangerous.
Esthier on July 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM
I think a tasing may have been controversial too. – Forest
Yes, it would, but the perp would’ve done what he was told to do a lot sooner, less video tape, and there’d be no baton action. The baton will probably get him in deeper doodoo than the taser.
Tony737 on July 30, 2008 at 6:08 PM
In the end he seems to be more about protecting himself from the blows rather than trying to resist arrest.
Esthier on July 30, 2008 at 6:09 PM
Officer: “Get on the ground and put your hands behind your back!”
Idiot: “No!……….. Hey, why are you hitting me?”
Seven Percent Solution on July 30, 2008 at 6:11 PM
“Owww!! Oooo! Owww! Taze me, bro!”
hillbillyjim on July 30, 2008 at 6:12 PM
The officer hitting the susupect will be toast. Yes, the suspect is resisting, but I don’t think that he can justify the use of the baton as pain compliance, i.e., cause pain that will make the suspect comply with commands. Unless the agency has a policy which will allow for the use of the baton in such cases, it is at least a policy violation. However, the area he is hitting is on areas that will cause pain, not severe injury (although it will leave a heck of a bruise!). I notice too that he is us using an “ASP” baton, one that telescopes out. They don’t hit as hard, but they sting a lot because they are narrower.
After Rodney King, the LAPD considered use of the baton almost deadly force, and most officers I knew would not use the baton any more unless they absolutley had too.
415woman on July 30, 2008 at 6:12 PM
There’s only about 500 tasers available to NYC police. But after the Sean Bell shooting, Kelly has asked for many more.
JetBoy on July 30, 2008 at 6:12 PM
I reckon cops could get their own gun lifted in the course of a wrestling match, or have a third party come in on them when they’re dealing with the original guy. I gotta agree with you – every second that goes by with a struggling suspect makes it more dangerous for the cops.
forest on July 30, 2008 at 6:13 PM
He was refusing to put his hands behind his back. Pain compliance then becomes an option. Had the man on the ground put his hands behind his back and allowed the officers to cuff him – there would be nothing to report here.
But, as many have already alluded to, the officers have not cuffed him yet, and therefore have not yet done a pat down search on this suspect. They have no way of knowing if he has any weapons on him, they have no way of knowing why he is refusing to be cuffed, or if the reason he is refusing to be cuffed is so he can get to the gun in his waste band.
Nothing to see here folks. Move along.
joncoltonis on July 30, 2008 at 6:13 PM
Hey AP,
Aren’t ya’ll a little early on the police brutality threads?
The Denver Convention hasn’t even started yet…
: )
catmman on July 30, 2008 at 6:15 PM
Naturally a person is going to try to fend off blows, but the guy does seem to be resisting the cuffs and raises a leg while they were still wrestling, before the blows.
The beating may have been a bit excessive, but I don’t think it was entirely out of line. It’s hard to tell though.
FloatingRock on July 30, 2008 at 6:17 PM
Off-topic, though relevant:
If the officer is found to have used the baton inappropriately, the fact that he is carrying a gun would make this a potential 924(c) violation and possibly put him in jail for 10+ years, like Compean and Ramos. This is why the district court’s opinion on that case was so ridiculous.
Sorry for the diversion, but I thought it important to point this out.
progressoverpeace on July 30, 2008 at 6:17 PM
Except they’re not wailing on him non-stop; there were several pauses in there where he had the chance to cooperate, but he didn’t. It looked like he was talking back instead of just rolling over and letting them handcuff him.
If you physically resist being handcuffed and detained- yeah, you’re going to get hit even if you’re not posing a direct threat. I’m pretty sure it’s like that everywhere.
If it was a continuous beating that would be different, but I don’t see that here.
Hollowpoint on July 30, 2008 at 6:17 PM
What exactly are we supposed to be debating here?
To beat or not to beat? That is the question?
Rod on July 30, 2008 at 6:20 PM
I really don’t know what to think here. It seemed a little excessive, yet I mean, what is a baton for (I mean, it’s not just for show is it?)? The guy was resisting arrest, he would not turn over, the officer applied the baton to turn him over.
On the other hand, the other tape with the officer checking the guy off the bike, that was way out of line.
DanStark on July 30, 2008 at 6:21 PM
Esthier:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_compliance
In this case, I think the officer was hitting his legs to cause non-lethal pain in order to bring the suspect into compliance. You have to either use a taser, baton, or your bare hands. In this case, he used a baton to whack the guy’s legs. My guess is that the guy will suffer no serious damage.
And as Hollowpoint pointed out, he kept pausing, waiting for the guy to come into compliance.
apollyonbob on July 30, 2008 at 6:22 PM
At what point will people start obeying the police when they tell you to lay down and put your hands behind your backs?
Should have to tell them ONE time, and then break out the taser.
Vigilante on July 30, 2008 at 6:22 PM
There should be no beatings on the street. A cop should pull his gun and issue a command. Beatings should be reserved for the interrogation room.
jaime on July 30, 2008 at 6:23 PM
Two commenters who were on opposite sides on the bicycle take-down thread are on opposite sides here, but on opposite opposite sides.
Go figure.
hillbillyjim on July 30, 2008 at 6:24 PM
Staff meeting at HotAir:
MM: Allah, we need more threads like LGF with 500+ comments.
Allah: Okay, I will continuously search for videos of police using excessive force against defenseless people.
MM: And?
Allah: Also stories that pit atheists against Christians?
MM: Bingo!
/
carbon_footprint on July 30, 2008 at 6:25 PM
Does AP really look like the kind of guy with a plan?
apollyonbob on July 30, 2008 at 6:27 PM
He did lay down, don’t try it.
AprilOrit on July 30, 2008 at 6:28 PM
hillbillyjim on July 30, 2008 at 6:29 PM
No, but the Boss might persuade him to plan!
carbon_footprint on July 30, 2008 at 6:29 PM
3 cops there? No need to beat the guy like that. This is way too much.
Then again, it’s hard to know what happened 10 seconds before the video starts.
lorien1973 on July 30, 2008 at 6:30 PM
lol
carbon_footprint on July 30, 2008 at 6:30 PM
Let them keep beating recklessly and the Mayor and Commissioner will continue yanking badges and putting people on desk duty.
AprilOrit on July 30, 2008 at 6:31 PM
Was that meant to be sensical?
apollyonbob on July 30, 2008 at 6:32 PM
NOTE TO PEOPLE GETTING ARRESTED:
DUMBASSES! STOP RESISTING ARREST AND YOUR CHANCES OF GETTING WHOOPED ON WILL DROP DRAMATICALLY.
I am so sick and tired of these “police brutality” incidents. Tell these dumb bastards to stop resisting the police officers arresting them, and chances are, the police will not get their war on.
blatantblue on July 30, 2008 at 6:32 PM
Power corrupts. Those officers should be relieved of duty.
Dr. Manhattan on July 30, 2008 at 6:37 PM
The scumbag resisted the officers. He got what he deserved.
Mooseman on July 30, 2008 at 6:37 PM
I’m sure they were telling him to lie on his stomach.
mikeyboss on July 30, 2008 at 6:40 PM
The word of the day here is COMPLIANCE.
Bfunky292 on July 30, 2008 at 6:42 PM
Yes.
If I have to give you the long version, one commenter who was on the pro-police side of the debate on the last police brutality thread is on the other side today, and vice-versa for another commenter. You follow?
Just goes to show how different people can see the same thing differently. It wasn’t a pro-or-anti-police bias obviously, as their positions reversed in the two threads.
Kind of relevant in our video-clip-driven outlook these days.
hillbillyjim on July 30, 2008 at 6:43 PM
True, but we’re talking about second here. If it were me (and it wouldn’t, cause I wouldn’t bother resisting), it would take me a second to move my hands back, cause I’d be expecting to get hit again. Plus, I always touch whatever is bruised just to makes sure it’s not as bad as I think.
He did, but he wouldn’t let them put his arms back to cuff them.
I agree. I don’t think this one is as obvious as the last one, but I definitely think it warrants an investigation.
True, but considering the guy must have been in pain, he didn’t really pause that long.
My theory is this. He was mad at the guy but in his mind did everything to the letter of the law, simple erring on the side of force.
Esthier on July 30, 2008 at 6:46 PM
Another day, another cop beating the sh*t out of another citizen.
I already know how the authoritarians will react. Maybe they can call for a law banning video taping of any cops for any reason. That will take care of the problem of exposing police out of control. After all its for our safety right? I mean the scourge of people carrying ice is a major problem in our cities.
Why when people see the Chinese doing this sort of thing they get all bent out of shape but when its one of ours they go out of their way to defend it.
Sammy316 on July 30, 2008 at 6:47 PM
That guy could have been hopped up on anything. Remember Rodney King? He was well in la-la land, even with a large group of officers beating him, he kept resiting.
JetBoy on July 30, 2008 at 6:48 PM
A valid observation, but I think that many of the people defending the cop who threw the guy off his bicycle were motivated in large part by their hatred of Critical Mass.
In that video the guy was just riding his bike along and without any apparent warning the cop ran up and pushed him off his bike. In this case the guy seems to be resisting arrest.
Of course in both cases the videos don’t show the complete picture.
FloatingRock on July 30, 2008 at 6:52 PM
Hilarious. Lets play this game!
Another day, another cop getting framed with an out of context video.
I already know how the anti-authoritarians will react. Cops should have cameras surgically implanted in their bodies. Any cop that hits a citizen without filling out the proper paperwork should be fired, then executed. We have to protect ourselves against anyone who enforces the law, right? I mean, the scourge of sociopathic schizophrenics becoming cops is a major problem in our cities.
How come something something totalitarian regime, blah blah hypocrisy.
Sorry, I couldn’t make it all the way to the finish line on that one.
apollyonbob on July 30, 2008 at 6:56 PM
EL WRONGO….hasn’t been proven, the reason this cop and the other one are on desk duty with no gun and no badge to their names…boo freakin’hoo.
AprilOrit on July 30, 2008 at 6:59 PM
Which is routine procedure during these sorts of investigations.
Cops have a right to cuff people whether they like it or not. They don’t have to ask the suspects permission first. If a suspect resists then they still have to do what it takes to apply the cuffs, and as others have pointed out, until they do the situation can quickly turn against the cops. Just because a cop uses force doesn’t indicate it’s excessive.
FloatingRock on July 30, 2008 at 7:05 PM
Yeah, I can see your point. There shouldn’t be any civilian oversight of law enforcement agencies. They should be able to operate with out impunity. I mean they are enforcing the law and keeping perpetrators off your lawn. God knows what would have happened if that guy and his bag of ice would have done while on his back and wrapped up by the other cop. To hell with our rights as long as you feel safe from people carrying ice.
We probably agree on most things, but I’m sorry, your reply on this one is full of fail.
Sammy316 on July 30, 2008 at 7:08 PM
I love a good assbeating, especially when it’s justified. That cop should’ve gotten a medal instead.
Darth Executor on July 30, 2008 at 7:09 PM
You’re absolutely right. There is a time and place for the use of force. I guess the question is when it crosses the line. In this case I think the cop was out of line.
Sammy316 on July 30, 2008 at 7:12 PM
Remind us again when it’s someone you care about on the other end of the stick….
AprilOrit on July 30, 2008 at 7:13 PM
Excessive. But, never, I mean never, mess with the police.
saved on July 30, 2008 at 7:13 PM
Dont worry Denver Sheriffs deputies have no problem tasering you in the jail .
Welcome to the mile high city nutroots now enjoy your stay in the city lock up , which by the way is one of the most filthy and over crowded places i have ever been . 6 people in a 1 man cell. Plan on a nice 3-5 day sit in that s**t hole .
Mojack420 on July 30, 2008 at 7:15 PM
If they deserve it (like the guy in the video did) beat ahead. Take your idiotic anarchy somewhere else.
Darth Executor on July 30, 2008 at 7:19 PM
Criminal pursuits do and should carry a certain risk. If getting whacked with a stick or knocked off your bike is considered cruel and unusual punishment, we are in big trouble.
myamphibian on July 30, 2008 at 7:20 PM
Maybe a little, but I don’t think it’s worthy of any serious punishment like losing his job. Maybe they should just keep an eye on him for a while. Besides, the video doesn’t show enough of the incident to really make any conclusions.
Considering that this resulted from a bag of ice I admit it seems extreme, but probably they were only cuffing him to make sure he doesn’t present any danger or run while they’re investigating. They probably would have let him go if he’d just cooperated.
FloatingRock on July 30, 2008 at 7:20 PM
The perp had his legs up and refused to lie flat with his hands behind his back. When they tried to cuff him he resisted.
One of those legs could come up in your face any time in a situation like that. I stand by the cops on this one.
dogsoldier on July 30, 2008 at 7:21 PM
Nobody I care about is that stupid.
BigWyo on July 30, 2008 at 7:27 PM
Exactly, which is why the cop was hitting his legs.
FloatingRock on July 30, 2008 at 7:28 PM
You’re probably right. But it was still excessive in my opinion.
Dictionaries can be found online and they are free to use.
Sammy316 on July 30, 2008 at 7:29 PM
lay your stupid ass flat on your belly and spread your arms out as wide as you can and you won’t get hit. When they grab your wrist for the cuffs do not resist.
C’mon, we all know the drill for Christ sakes, anything other than that behavior deserves a Darwinian affirming beat down.
Alden Pyle on July 30, 2008 at 7:30 PM
Why not? HA is very well thought out. Its hard to be successful without planning for it.
aengus on July 30, 2008 at 7:31 PM
Hey, yer right…I looked up Smarmy Douche Bag and but all they had was a picture of you…
BigWyo on July 30, 2008 at 7:32 PM
If brains were as easy to find, I wouldn’t have to put up with your posts. =)
Darth Executor on July 30, 2008 at 7:34 PM
Hey, the guy is black, therefore INNOCENT! Just wait until the Obamassiah is elected. Peace will guide the planet and love will fill the skies. Unicorns will frolick in Central Park. The oceans will recede. The skies will clear.
GarandFan on July 30, 2008 at 7:38 PM
DCJeff is mindless punk. Please stay off this site, mindless punk. We like to have people with at least the intelligence of a rat posting comments.
revolution on July 30, 2008 at 7:53 PM
If you are resisting arrest they can use whatever force is necessary in order to gain your compliance, including shooting your dumb ass.
easy on July 30, 2008 at 7:57 PM
Wow! Your arguments are convincing. I concede!
Sammy316 on July 30, 2008 at 7:58 PM
This one deserves another post because I can’t stop chuckling to myself. Foot meet bullet.
Sammy316 on July 30, 2008 at 8:02 PM
Respect my authoritah!
doubleplusundead on July 30, 2008 at 8:11 PM
The camera seemed to keep the suspect in the edge of the frame, and then rose up right before the policeman “inexplicably” started hitting the guy. Weird time for the cameraman to take up birdwatching…
Just like in the cycling video, all of the relevant information needed to formulate an informed opinion is missing.
Exit question for the “experts” here: How many of you have ever actually had to physically subdue a criminal suspect?
And how did you do it without using violence or inflicting pain?
logis on July 30, 2008 at 8:18 PM
Famous last words….
AprilOrit on July 30, 2008 at 8:20 PM
BigWyo & Darth Executor made a wrong turn at Logical and Intelligence, wound up on the corner of Vulgar & Popinjay and decided it was an ok neighborhood.
AprilOrit on July 30, 2008 at 8:25 PM
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