Video: Time for another 500-comment police brutality thread

posted at 5:44 pm on July 30, 2008 by Allahpundit

Another day, another NYPD officer stripped of his gun and badge while IA investigates footage of him dispensing a bit too much nuance to a perp. Needless to say, this is a closer call than the last clip, especially given the cops’ claim that he attacked them first:

Cephus said he was bringing ice into a park, when he encountered two police officers checking for liquor. He dropped his bag, and says he was hit 10 to 12 times on the shoulder and upper arms, before a bystander’s camera even started.

In the complaint, Officer Harrington and his partner said Cephus appeared drunk, and when they stopped him, he struck them with an umbrella and his fists.

“I would never do that,” Cephus said. “I would never hit an officer.”

PBA head Patrick Lynch says Cephus resisted and held onto the baton.

“What I saw was a police officer acting appropriately, using the necessary amount of force to put this person under arrest,” he said, adding it was not excessive force.

Exit question: Should we expect a Reverend Al rally in protest? In this particular case, I’m skeptical. Click the image to watch.

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At first he’s resisting, after the first two hits, he was beginning to behave. But the cop just kept on hitting him. Perhaps he was still resisting but it doesn’t look like it from here. They should’ve just tased him. I usually side with the cops, but not so sure this time. Gotta watch it a few more times to see.

Tony737 on July 30, 2008 at 5:58 PM

Yep, tasing’s the answer. Good call.

fossten on July 30, 2008 at 8:28 PM

resisting arrest is never good. maybe he should try putting his hands behind his back. thats not to tough to figure out.
i cant wait to see how this turn out.

vinllo on July 30, 2008 at 8:31 PM

That’s what Tasers are for.

Captain Scarlet on July 30, 2008 at 8:37 PM

Aaaaaah. The sweet sound of a sturdy baton ricocheting of an exposed shoulder. Music to my ears!

RMR on July 30, 2008 at 8:42 PM

I doubt we will hear anything from Al Sharpton, He could disprove his racist label here if he comes out against the Black Officer but I doubt he has the intelligence or the principals of character to do so.

sonnyspats1 on July 30, 2008 at 8:45 PM

As often as I side with cops on this sort of thing, these situations bother me to no end.
Put your hands behind your back!
Action by cop which causes perp to instinctively NOT put his hands behind his back
I said put your hands behind your back!
Action by cop which causes perp to instinctively NOT put his hands behind his back

Yeah, I know. The cops are in a tough spot here, and really, there probably aren’t too many actions that can get someone to comply that don’t create an automatic defense response in the perp.

But still, if you’ve given the guy an order, give him something of a chance to comply. Otherwise, why are you giving the order? (I don’t think that’s so much the case here as in other videos I’ve seen.)

ChePibe on July 30, 2008 at 8:56 PM

I can only hope the cops in Denver have enough balls.

Coronagold on July 30, 2008 at 8:59 PM

Please taze him bro!

Just do what the nice man says.

Mojave Mark on July 30, 2008 at 9:04 PM

the guy is resisting arrest…

Chakra Hammer on July 30, 2008 at 9:11 PM

resisting arrest is never good. maybe he should try putting his hands behind his back. thats not to tough to figure out.
i cant wait to see how this turn out.

vinllo on July 30, 2008 at 8:31 PM

yep.

Chakra Hammer on July 30, 2008 at 9:12 PM

But still, if you’ve given the guy an order, give him something of a chance to comply.

ChePibe on July 30, 2008 at 8:56 PM

I could be mistaken but the first several seconds of the video appears to show the cops trying the wrestle the guys arms behind his back to cuff him. They gave him an opportunity and he declined.

FloatingRock on July 30, 2008 at 9:22 PM

the first several seconds of the video appears to show the cops trying the wrestle the guys arms behind his back…

…and then the guy puts his leg between himself and the cops to fend them off and his leg gets whacked.

FloatingRock on July 30, 2008 at 9:31 PM

As a firearms and defensive tactics instructor for a major Fed agency, i can say that that was not the intended use for a baton. A baton is a DEFENSIVE weapon, and yes, the guy is being passively…at most mildly resistant…but this is not the situation where I would EVER condone such use. A taser would have been more appropriate; and if unavailable, empty hand techniques would have been more appropriate in such a situation.

As a side note: the NYPD, for all its rich and proud history, is, contrary to popular belief, not the premier law enforcement agency when it comes to training. These guys push classes of 2 to 300 recruits, and the vast majority of their training is OJT, a severe hindrance to proper recruit training. Dont believe so? The proof is often, like this situation, on videotape and evident in the all too frequent 30+ shots fired shootings officers from the NYPD have in recent years been involved in. The OJT training only results in the rookie doing what he sees his FTO doing. And that FTO learned from HIS FTO. WIth the advent of pocket digital cameras…you will see much, much more of this lack of training come to light.

CapitalistPig on July 30, 2008 at 9:39 PM

Looks like someone didn’t listen to Chris Rock’s advice on how not to get your a.. kicked by the police.

Looks to me like someone thought he was tougher than 2 cops and got proven wrong.

It would be nice to see more 500 comment posts. There are a lot of good postings, but I would like even more if they would stay on topic so I wouldn’t have to sift through the crap to get to the actual discussion of the topic at hand.

Boot Hill on July 30, 2008 at 9:51 PM

The guy is resisting arrest. This is no worse than what I’ve seen on the show Cops.

NotCoach on July 30, 2008 at 10:13 PM

Sorry to let you down Boot Hill, but nowhere have I ever read that my job as a law enforcement officer is to “kick anyones ass”. Before anyone goes off and calls me a wuss, however, understand that I’ll defend and give the benefit of the doubt to most cops, and we try not to second guess one another because “we werent there”. But, when its right there on videotape, and you can see it with your own eyes…C’mon…God love my brother in blue, but…he screwed up…

CapitalistPig on July 30, 2008 at 10:24 PM

Tazering would be the best solution.

Unlike the cyclist video, which looked unprovoked, it’s difficult to know what happened before this perp was on the ground.

Cephus said he was bringing ice into a park, when he encountered two police officers checking for liquor.

If the cops were in the process of arresting a liquor violation, and he’s resisting, which look very much like it, then I suspect the cop may be well within dept. policy.

Kini on July 30, 2008 at 10:28 PM

was one of the staunchest defenders of the tackling cop, but I didn’t like this one. I’ll usually give the benefit of the doubt, but here…I dunno, the man on the ground looks harmless.

Allah, I’m not sure why this exibiting of law enforcement officers making arrests when only a fraction of the information is available in video & soundbites. If you want to show some videos, show the ones where a guy like this one on the ground was wrestling or “locked down” as one put it, getting a gun away from the officer and making the officers wife a widow and children fatherless. Or one in a routine traffic stop when the officer politely requests the license and gets shot in the face. I work in law enforcement and you don’t know from one minute to the next what kind of psycho you are going to get out there. I believe you got some contributing to your blog. I don’t see the benefit of what you are doing with these selected few videos.

wepeople on July 30, 2008 at 10:58 PM

wepeople on July 30, 2008 at 10:58 PM

It all about the traffic. The comments and web traffic that is.

Plus the comments are interesting…. yes!

Kini on July 30, 2008 at 11:14 PM

wepeople on July 30, 2008 at 10:58 PM

If you are in law enforcement then you know that we are guided by the basic principle of escalation and deescalation of force. We are not in the business of giving “penalty strikes” with the baton, regardless of what this guy had done. The window to perform such strikes with a baton is open for a very short amount of time…then it closes. This officer exhibited terribly poor judgment and control. The loss of his emotional control was evident by the fact that he couldn’t even control his baton. Had he been a recruit, he would have FAILED even the loosest criteria on deescalation of force.

Now, as to the dead cop videos. No one wants to see another dead hero cop on the street, which is why I am such a huge proponent of defensive tactics and staying fit. But, we do NO GOOD to our profession when some moron who obviously needs a use of force refresher ends up on YouTube.

CapitalistPig on July 30, 2008 at 11:16 PM

CapitalistPig on July 30, 2008 at 10:24 PM

Obviously you missed his advice as well. It is a comedy bit.

While I don’t condone the police kicking anyone’s ass, some people just ask for it, and some people get what they are asking for – and then cry about being abused by the cops. I have no sympathy for people who do that.

Best way I have seen that makes situations end on a note where no one gets their ass kicked….is do what the officer says. Anything other than that and it’s anyone’s guess where it could lead.

Boot Hill on July 30, 2008 at 11:28 PM

There were two cops and a third within earshot.

If they couldn’t subdue him without the stick then perhaps knitting is more thier style?

Seriously, if the perp threw a punch, kick, or bit, he deserved the stick. Resisting isn’t enough to justify. This is why we are taught pain compliance contact controls (with your hands on pressure points) at the police academy. Once you let go, the pain goes away.

Black Adam on July 31, 2008 at 12:46 AM

The use of impact tools by police officers, within department policy and procedure, is categorized as “Reasonable Force”.

Reasonable Force is generally defined in Law Enforcement as; the amount of force reasonably necessary to effect the arrest of a non-compliant arrestee/suspect, and/or to protect the public and/or officer(s) from bodily injury or death at the hands of another person while effecting an arrest and/or defending oneself from an attacker.

Think of it as a pie. There are many different slices in the use-of-force pie from hands on pain compliance techniques, to impact weapon/less-lethal techniques, to chemical agents, to deadly force if necessary. You do not have to go from one step to the next as if climbing a ladder in specific order. It is a pie and you may move from one slice to any other slice in the pie as the fluidity of the situation dictates.

Some Law Enforcement agencies refer to it as the; Use of Force Continuum

This guy was obviously non-compliant, physically and passively.

Popping a resisting arrestee with a baton about his extremities while avoiding the Head, Neck, and Spine whenever feasible (as demonstrated in this video), to gain compliance and actually effect the arrest with minimum risk of injury to the arresting officer(s) and bystanders is well stated and understand in ALL Police Departments Policies and Procedures as acceptable.

This is much ado about NOTHING.

There is nothing to see here.

Move along.

SilverStar830 on July 31, 2008 at 1:06 AM

Over the past 45 or so years I’ve been pulled over many times. Usually get off with a verbal warning. Sometimes a ticket. I drive pretty fast. Every now and then a fix-it-ticket during quota time. Or “we can’t raise your taxes so we’ll ticket the money out of your pocket time” like now here in CA. Even arrested once by Shore Patrol while I was on a recruit training base. SP’s need to train too I guess.

Still, not one beating or tasing.

Who do I complain to?

TheCulturalist on July 31, 2008 at 1:08 AM

P.S.

Time for another 500-comment police brutality thread

…you wish

SilverStar830 on July 31, 2008 at 1:20 AM

There are many different slices in the use-of-force pie from hands on pain compliance techniques, to impact weapon/less-lethal techniques, to chemical agents, to deadly force if necessary.

Generally I would agree with Capitalist Pig here. But I think I’m going to go with this guy. Cops should just shoot the guy who might be resisting. After all, they didn’t follow the orders that the nice cop asked. How dare the man bring ice to a party when they were specifically looking for liquor (illegal search). That man was lucky he only got caned (an actual punishment in SE Asian countries – but typically only after a sentence in court). This resistor should have been shot. All people who resist arrest should be shot immediately because whatever the cop says goes.

I don’t hate cops, but I do fear them. They have way too much power with very little oversight. Cops scare the crap out of me.

ThackerAgency on July 31, 2008 at 1:34 AM

Oh God… Thack the whack is back.

You ever going to fix that eyesore you call a website Thacker? I can’t imagine your insurance business does very well on the interwebs with that monstrosity of a site posing as an appealing way to conduct business with your company.

Also, try quoting people in full context. No one says he should have been shot.

SilverStar830 on July 31, 2008 at 1:42 AM

Who can make sense of all this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_ynmzbFsh4

Mr. Wednesday Night on July 31, 2008 at 1:47 AM

Who can make sense of all this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_ynmzbFsh4

Mr. Wednesday Night on July 31, 2008 at 1:47 AM

Pot’ll do that to a bloke.

- The Cat

MirCat on July 31, 2008 at 2:29 AM

He was resisting arrest. It’s clearly a case where some physical force is justified. I think the issue here is how much. Especially since a lot of that beating didn’t seem productive… it seemed like the cop was pissed that he wasn’t cooperating, and decided to take an opportunity of justifiable use of force and use it for some cheap anger management therapy.

Mark Jaquith on July 31, 2008 at 2:44 AM

I’m all about cops protecting themselves and doing what they must do to keep the danger to themselves at an acceptable level. This video wasn’t an example of that. He was beating the man to punish him. It was just a good, old-fashioned beat down.

If you can watch that and not deplore it, you’re a helluva lot “tougher” than me.

Immolate on July 31, 2008 at 7:38 AM

I am huge supporter of the police. When it comes to force I support baton because we can see the damage where as a taser doesn’t look like the officer is doing anything and has no visuals besides the guy yelling.

When it comes to Black-on-Black abuse we must remember not all blacks are the same. You have blacks from the Caribbean, Africa, and native born and sometimes they don’t like each other in a very similar way that a klan minded white person doesn’t like blacks, Jews, or Catholics.

I would like to know what was happening on the ramp. It looks like others were going to get involved but were being stopped by other pedestrians.

Here is a link to the NY reports: http://www.nycpba.org/news/index.html

sjramos on July 31, 2008 at 7:49 AM

Also, If our police departments want our support they need to stop the false stories of the officer being in danger when they weren’t as in the biker video. I have stated before; if our 18 year old troops in Iraq have more self control and professionalism why can’t a 30 year old officer.

PBA Lynch complains about the perp gripping the baton, I would too knowing that they will beat me with it. These defenders should always put their mothers and fathers in place of the perp and think how would they react to the police beating on them over a bag of ice.

We definitely need a step by step report of events to know whether the perp behaved properly and what instigated the arrest.

Christ said it best do to others as you would have done unto you.

sjramos on July 31, 2008 at 7:59 AM

after the first two hits, he was beginning to behave

No he wasn’t. Right up until the end of the clip the other cop was trying to get him rolled over and his arm behind his back and he was resisting. Looks like standard procedure.

peacenprosperity on July 31, 2008 at 8:00 AM

empty hand techniques would have been more appropriate in such a situation.

How many times do we hear about cops wrestling with perps and then being killed with their own guns? I’d like to see the statistics on that.

peacenprosperity on July 31, 2008 at 8:03 AM

SilverStar830 on July 31, 2008 at 1:06 AM

You and I disagreed on the taser on the side of the road deal but I agree with you here 100%.

peacenprosperity on July 31, 2008 at 8:06 AM

You NEVER have the right to resist arrest, period. The cops didn’t just decide “oh, there’s a fine upstanding citizen, let’s beat the sh*t out of him”.

And, to silverstars point, you NEVER have the right to physically assault an officer including grabbing his weapon. If you are too stupid to know better then to struggle with police, then expect the consequences.

PatriotPete on July 31, 2008 at 9:03 AM

For all the talk of taking multiple officers to subdue one guy, keep one thing in mind:

It’s really easy for one guy to subdue another guy, if the one guy doesn’t mind killing the other guy. But cops in America aren’t there to kill people, they are there to subdue the other guy, cuff and stuff him, and let the criminal justice system deal with him.

If you are not dead, there are a number of ways to continue to resist confinement, and that can make you more than one person can handle.

Sekhmet on July 31, 2008 at 10:05 AM

Taser’s are a crutch for good police work. A good ass whoopin is severely needed from time to time. The bruises should still be fresh during the arraignment.

Egfrow on July 31, 2008 at 10:39 AM

How many times do we hear about cops wrestling with perps and then being killed with their own guns? I’d like to see the statistics on that.

peacenprosperity on July 31, 2008 at 8:03 AM

I’d like to see the stats.

The cops didn’t just decide “oh, there’s a fine upstanding citizen, let’s beat the sh*t out of him”.

Easy to say until it happens to you.

The Race Card on July 31, 2008 at 10:50 AM

Just adding my two cents worth.
2 CENTs

WildBillK on July 31, 2008 at 11:16 AM

You NEVER have the right to resist arrest, period.

Depends on the state. If it is an illegal arrest in Texas, you have the right to resist it, all the way to using reasonable deadly force.

phelps on July 31, 2008 at 12:06 PM

It always leaves me wondering what would happen if perpetrators would willingly submit to apprehension in the first place. Hmmm…

Grafted on July 31, 2008 at 2:38 PM

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