Evangelicals warn McCain: Just say no to Mitt
posted at 10:50 am on July 29, 2008 by Allahpundit
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We … knew this already, yes? After 16 months of campaign coverage, I can’t tell new news anymore from old news that’s been recycled and presented as new news. But I’m reasonably sure this qualifies for category two.
More news breaking at this hour: It seems Mike “Christian Leader” Huckabee’s supporters are the most adamantly anti-Mitt.
[Evangelical leaders] say Mr. Romney lacks trust on issues such as outlawing abortion and opposing same-sex marriage and because he is a Mormon. Opposition is particularly powerful among those who supported former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee in the Republican presidential primaries earlier this year…
Other well-placed Christian conservatives say that although many evangelical leaders could accept and work for a McCain-Romney ticket, Mr. Huckabee’s supporters tend to be “rabid” in their views against Mr. Romney because of his faith: They do not regard Mormonism as a Christian denomination…
In conversations with The Times, several Republican officials close to the McCain campaign also played down anti-Romney sentiment among conservative evangelicals. They cited an online poll of evangelicals by 2000 presidential primary candidate Gary Bauer that found Mr. Romney is the top vice-presidential choice of born-again Christians…
An evangelical leader who, though he has close ties to Mr. McCain, confided to The Times that polling suggests that putting Mr. Romney on the ticket likely would cost Mr. McCain 7 percent to 10 percent of the evangelical vote - enough to spell defeat for Mr. McCain in a close race with Sen. Barack Obama, the presumptive Democratic nominee.
Seven to 10 percent isn’t something McCain can afford to be cavalier about, needless to say, even with most prominent Christian leaders already on board. This makes twice that Huck and his fans have managed to thwart Romney’s ambitions; can’t wait for 2012.
If you’re wondering whether Pawlenty earns the all-important Good Evangelical Seal of Approval, no worries: He’s golden, and not just on abortion either.
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This evangelical agrees with you.
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 12:15 PM
I was a Romney guy when he 1st announced, & I knew he was Mormon. It was when I learned how recently he was a lib that I dumped him.
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 12:16 PM
Another example of how “inclusive and accepting” those wonderful HypoChristians really are. You wet-headed, jeebus-pimps remember this next time you tally up your collective worldwide numbers to omit those sects with which you find inferiority.
DanKenton on July 29, 2008 at 12:17 PM
DanKenton, you are so full of hate! Some Evangelicals express a preference, & you express vicious bile.
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 12:23 PM
OK, which one is dumb and which one is dumber?
jdkchem on July 29, 2008 at 12:25 PM
Who are the first NGOs to compassionately respond to victims of natural disasters? Who give more sacrificially to the poor than any other group? Who are the most likely to give up successful careers in order to serve the underprivileged full-time? Who are the most likely to adopt one of the world’s 143 million orphans? (I could go on and on) The evangelical Christians that many HAers love to hate.
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 12:26 PM
Wow! What an intolerant ignorant bigot you must be to hate Christians so much! Get help soon.
highhopes on July 29, 2008 at 12:27 PM
It’s the wonderful situational ethics in evidence. McCain is ok as long as Romney isn’t his VP?? Really?? Competence, moral strength, ability don’t matter.
AP, the mere fact that you are accorded such a bully pulpit here is a bad sign.
eaglesdontflock on July 29, 2008 at 12:29 PM
http://www.gov.state.ak.us/news.php?id=1356
If a conservative Governor with 80% approval ratings can be taken down by a demonstrably false accusation and liberal media coverage, then we might as well give up right now and hand George Soros the keys to the Oval Office.
As far as Palin’s lack of coverage: The MSM is going out of their way to ignore her because they know she’s McCain’s best chance to win. This morning on Today they showed the top 7 GOP choices and didn’t include Palin. She’s not the favorite, but does anybody believe there are seven more likely candidates?
Since this is supposed to be a Romney thread, I’ll weigh in: I’m a Southern-Baptist right-winger, and I like Romney. In fact, he was my 1st pick for the nomination, followed by Fred. I oppose Romney for Veep only for political strategery reasons.
Mr. Wednesday Night on July 29, 2008 at 12:30 PM
If anyone wants to know why a politician’s Mormonism (and, earlier, Catholicism) freak people out, it’s the whole matter of having a designated “God’s representative on earth.” Kennedy’s biggest obstacle was overcoming fears that he would govern as an American first, regardless of what the Pope said. He even gave a speech on it. Romney tried to emulate it, and succeeded somewhat (but not entirely).
On a related note, it is my view that the reason Romney’s religion sparks so much passion among both his supporters and detractors is that it is the only thing we can be sure that he believes. He has changed his positions on so many issues so recently that people (conservatives especially) refer to his Mormonism to fill in the blanks. For this reason, it keeps entering the discussion, and becomes the center of the argument time and time again.
Big S on July 29, 2008 at 12:31 PM
Boy, you said it. It seems that no matter what the group - some people will only vote for someone ‘like them’, that agrees with them 100%. It’s a ridiculous.
As an Evangelical myself this sort of thing really bothers me. Was not the founding of this nation around freedom of religion? If anything - Christians should be concerned about creating inroads and relationships with Mormons. It’s true - both have fundamental disagreements on doctrines -and I don’t tend to view Mormon beliefs as traditional Christian beliefs - but so what. That’s what’s great about America, people with different perspectives living free together.
If there is any group that more closely shares similar values with Christians - it’s probably Mormons. That’s what electing a president is all about - selecting someone who has similar values. You aren’t electing a pastor.
I would vote for an agnostic, so long as they valued personal liberty, religious freedom, and conservative principals. What’s such a big deal about that?
whatthecrap on July 29, 2008 at 12:31 PM
Heh. The post is saying exactly the opposite.
Slublog on July 29, 2008 at 12:31 PM
It has to be hard to be a Romney supporter. And I say this being a friend of a higher-up staffer in Romney’s campaign, and as someone who did some work for Romney in 2003. On paper, the guy has excellent credentials — he was a very successful turnaround manager, he turned around the Olympics, he was a governor, he’s telegenic. Then, the media and certain evangelical groups pounced on Romney’s religion and made it an issue. Many attribute Romney’s failure to win the nomination (and his perpetual habit of coming in a close second in every major primary) to that religion question. Nobody likes their guy to get knee-capped. So I get the bitterness.
But that wasn’t why Romney lost! Romney lost Republican primaries because he couldn’t convince Republicans that he was sincere. His plastic, highly-polished countenance and his under-explained flip-flops and inconsistencies on major issues made him look like a game show host and a phony. That’s what did him in.
Outlander on July 29, 2008 at 12:32 PM
I’m sick of Huckabee’s “friends” and McCain idiots using the term evangelical Christian as a one-size-fits-all catch phrase. I am an evangelical Christian. Huckabee and his drones are extremist activists who use Christ’s name to prop up their liberal agenda.
It’s clear what is going on here is that McCain is looking for some excuse to put as big a liberal as himself on the ticket and Huckabee is right there helping him along that process by making these allegations about Romney’s effect on the ticket.
This evangelical Christian would vote for McCain-Romney even though McCain is a nasty bit of work who cannot be trusted with the nation’s highest office. McCain-Huckabee and I’m staying home and will wait out the next four years because one RINO weasel is enough for any ticket.
highhopes on July 29, 2008 at 12:32 PM
It doesn’t. It’s some evangelicals expressing a preference that sparks passion & hate toward the entire evangelical movement.
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 12:34 PM
I don’t agree with him on gay marriage (he’s vehemently against allowing it, while I really don’t care), but he did a lot to prevent it in MA. I am pro-life and while I don’t like the fact that Mitt was pro-abortion in the past, he legitimately had a change in POV and governed with pro-life policies. It’s not his fault the MA legislature was 85% Democrat. It’s obvious you don’t understand Mitt’s original health care proposal, so I’m not even going to bother arguing about that with you.
malan89 on July 29, 2008 at 12:34 PM
Political strategy is why this country is so f*#*@d up. To save it, we need to elect leaders in every position.
I can’t believe what I am reading here. You guys will happily flush the country down the sewer rather than take a principled stand.
eaglesdontflock on July 29, 2008 at 12:35 PM
Have you been paying attention for the past year?
eaglesdontflock on July 29, 2008 at 12:36 PM
When Romney was in charge of the Massachusetts Mormon church in the 1990s, didn’t he get summoned to Salt Lake City and ordered to stop publicly promoting pro-choice positions?
Outlander on July 29, 2008 at 12:37 PM
It isn’t but neither is being a Christian a requirement for holding office. Huckabee’s morons are hypocrites if they don’t also go out after any candidate who is Jewish or Muslim or whatever in the same way they go out after Mormons.
As stupid as McCain is and as badly as he is campaigning, I hope he isn’t taking his advice about evangelical Christians from the hate group formed up to support Huckabee.
highhopes on July 29, 2008 at 12:38 PM
I don’t think this is a Christian “thang.” I think a lot of “evangelicals” (as the media uses the term) are opposing Romney in hopes that their opposition will somehow boost Mike Huckabee’s chances.
It is not coincidental that this comes on heels of a recent pro-Huck Rasmussen poll. I simply don’t condone Huckabee’s tactics, nor those of his campaign. I think that GOP internecine warfare should be saved for asshattery (Larry Craig comes to mind) and not for spots on an upcoming ticket. The only way to keep these beyond-the-pale tactics from reoccurring is to ensure they are not rewarded.
Sekhmet on July 29, 2008 at 12:38 PM
For all the people saying “most of these Huckabee supporters oppose Romney because of his policies, not his religion”, I remind you of this….
———–
And I want all of you to stop using “Evangelicals” when talking about these people. The article is only talking about a select group of Evangelicals. They don’t speak for the entire group, heck, they don’t even speak for a good portion of the entire group. I think the term “Huckabee supporters” or “Anti-Mormon Bigots” or even “Huckabee Supporting Anti-Mormon Bigots that make up a small portion of Evangelicals” is better.
malan89 on July 29, 2008 at 12:39 PM
Seriously. These guys claim to speak for all the Evangelicals. But if they really do speak for all of them, why didn’t Huckabee wipe out the competition in the primaries?
malan89 on July 29, 2008 at 12:41 PM
Yes, and what I’ve noticed is that supporters of every candidate in the field has thought at one time or another that this site was out to get their particular candidate.
Slublog on July 29, 2008 at 12:41 PM
Take it up with AP, he’s the one pushing the hate Romney agenda to the forefront every opportunity, even recycling the recycled recycles.
eaglesdontflock on July 29, 2008 at 12:41 PM
B-I-N-G-O
malan89 on July 29, 2008 at 12:41 PM
I know. I’m very disappointed.
malan89 on July 29, 2008 at 12:42 PM
Go to the archives and count.
eaglesdontflock on July 29, 2008 at 12:43 PM
I’m not saying it does directly. My point is that Romney, to back up his relatively new positions on things like abortion, stem cell research, guns, gay marriage, etc., spent a lot of the primary season campaigning on “faith” and “family”. These two things were his biggest character references as a conservative, without which he would not have been accepted by many conservative activists. If he had been a consistent conservative politician on certain issues, he would not have had to make his “faith” (Mormonism) a major talking point in his campaign, and may have been able to pull off the “who cares what my religion is; judge me by my deeds” tactic. Instead, he had to talk it up.
Big S on July 29, 2008 at 12:46 PM
I moved from disappointment to disgust a long time ago. AP has gone from pundit to ideological assassin. Every headline in any and every publication that slams Romney gets front and center here. Airing views is one thing, but showcasing bigoted rants is quite another.
eaglesdontflock on July 29, 2008 at 12:48 PM
This is the kind of thing that loses readers.
malan89 on July 29, 2008 at 1:02 PM
All the religious hypocrisies aside, and the fact that Mr. Romney is a good man, McCain needs to get a woman on the ticket, and fast, even if it’s Hillary.
The polls are as close as they are due to women, especially those over 40 (yes, the Hillary factor too), are not going for Obama. They instinctively know that so much unknown change is not good for their children, and their country.
If McCain doesn’t get this, he won’t get much else.
This is not a feminist statement, but rather a very tactical one.
Wait, and Obama, out of desperation, will get Hillary on board. Then it’s over.
Mr. Romney will work hard to get McCain to win, either way, and there are myriad of prominent positions he could, and would fill.
Make him the Energy or Economy tsar, for example…the country needs him and he’d be perfect for the job/s.
p.s. jgapinoy, not all of what you read is “hate”, but feel free to make anything of it that you wish. I read your comments in the headlines thread, btw, and did enjoy them.
Entelechy on July 29, 2008 at 1:03 PM
I love Mitt, but Palin seems like the best pick right now.
malan89 on July 29, 2008 at 1:05 PM
True. As a Southern Catholic social and fiscal conservative with 136 first cousins, I can say that my entire family was for Romney. They actually studied the issues, as we generally do. We’re a big military family, graduates of West Point, Air Force Academy, and the Naval Academy sprinkled in with Generals, MOH winners. Romney was very acceptable to us, country first.
What isn’t acceptable to us is bigotry - as Catholics we know all about that - and cheating. The Republican Party cheated when they orchestrated the candidacies of Thompson and Huckabee to thwart Romney. Probably had a little help from the Democrats, because they fear Romney. He has proven he can attract liberals in sufficient numbers to get elected. How can anyone reverse the direction this country has taken without winning over some of the enemy.
eaglesdontflock on July 29, 2008 at 1:09 PM
“…every publication that slams Romney gets front and center here.”
LOL!
The truth is, AP interjects the Romney/VP thingies so he can attrract the Huckabee-haters.
Turns him on.
Al-Ozarka on July 29, 2008 at 1:13 PM
Apparently, eagles do flock.
Big S on July 29, 2008 at 1:13 PM
I’ve not seen more out of touch people on a blog since the last time I visited the KOS.
Al-Ozarka on July 29, 2008 at 1:14 PM
Z-z-z-z-z-z
whitetop on July 29, 2008 at 1:15 PM
Not that I’m particularly enthusiastic about Mitt as VP, but I couldn’t care any less what the Evangelicals have to say about McCain’s VP selection. As far as I’m concerned, no single group had a greater influence on McCain becoming our nominee than the Evangelicals. They single-handedly brought Mike Huckabee into this thing and by the time it was over, McCain was the last man standing. Huck over Mitt in Iowa gave John McCain the momentum in New Hampshire. Who pushed Fred out in South Carolina? We are where we are because of Mike Huckabee. Now we’ve gotta find a way to get 270 electoral votes and if one select group of Evangelicals wants to whine, I have two words: Supreme Court. Next time you talk to God, tell him you stayed home on election day and helped to allow liberals to trample the right to life for years to come.
That being said, Huck’s people are making the wrong case here if they’re trying to catapult him to the VP slot? I’ll admit I’m less than enthusiastic about the other choices, but if it’s a choice between “voter enthusiasm” or electoral votes, I’ll take the latter. I don’t care if it’s a woman, a mormon, a Hispanic, I care about who can deliver and who I trust to take over in the event that something happens to McCain.
Now Ohio is crucial… in fact, the midwest, as a whole is critical. Ohio (and likely Indiana as well) need to be a part of a winning scenario. And as long as North Carolina and Virginia are “purple”, we really need to bring Michgan into play as well. That’s certainly played a role in boosting Romney’s stock, but he’s a tough sell to blue-collar guys, even with his Michigan roots. Yeah, I couldn’t pick Portman or Pawlenty out of a lineup, but anyone that’s part of the larger strategy of winning the Midwest at least deserves strong consideration. Minnesota opens the door for that strategy by allowing for many backup/alternate victory scenarios. So if the veep can deliver and we’re comfortable with him or her taking over for Mac, then that’s all that really matters. We’re not gonna win this thing if we’re just banking on McCain picking someone “energetic” to revitalize the campaign. We’re gonna win this thing by making sure the GOP wins 270 electoral votes and all of you critics better be darn sure that you don’t lose sight of that -Evangelicals included. Head on over to Real Clear Politics Electoral Map http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/?map=1 and work out your own scenarios. I’ve thrown more than a few around, and despite my reluctance to jump on board the Pawlenty train, locking up Minnesota allows for what I think may very well be the largest possible number of victory scenarios (and there aren’t very many). Could Pawlenty and the convention even deliver Minnesota and help in the Midwest? That’s another question altogether but the fact remains the same: The time for factions in this party is over. If we continue the same BS we are going to lose this election. Only two things matter: are we comfortable with this person taking over for McCain, and will this person help to deliver the White House.
Medicated on July 29, 2008 at 1:19 PM
I think the whining won’t stop if Romney’s the choice, and Huck’s tactics should not be rewarded. While I’m cool with Romney as a pick, I think it may end up being more important to not reward Huck’s tactics.
Sekhmet on July 29, 2008 at 1:19 PM
+1
Sekhmet on July 29, 2008 at 1:21 PM
I’m completely on board with the evangelicals. If McCandidate nominates Romney as his vp running mate, I will not vote for him.
Then again, I’m not going to hold my nose, and cast a vote for the guy anyway. Regardless of who he taps for the number two slot.
DngrMse on July 29, 2008 at 1:25 PM
LET’S HEAR IT FOR THE JESUS WHIGS. THE MOST WORTHLESS PEOPLE IN THE PARTY. NEVERMIND IF HE IS THE BEST CANDIDATE WITH THE BEST RECORD, WITH THE BEST RESUME, AND WITH THE BEST PROVEN EXPERIENCE. HE AIN’T GOT HIM A’HEART FIR JESUS SO I’S CAN’T VOTE FUR HIM.
I WANNA VOTE FIR HUKABEE CAUSE HE GOT HIM A’HEART FIR JESUS. NEVERMIND HIM GIVING ILLEGAL ALIENS IN STATE TUITION, RAISING TAXES, TOTAL DISREGARD FOR STATES RIGHTS. I DON’T NONE KAR ‘BOUT ALL DAT. HE DONE GOT’M A’HEART FIR JESUS.
revolution on July 29, 2008 at 1:25 PM
Worth being a Christian, so I won’t be identified with you. I have a feeling the poor grammar came easy for you…
right2bright on July 29, 2008 at 1:31 PM
With 136 cousins, there was a lot of flocking going on…
right2bright on July 29, 2008 at 1:34 PM
Let’s face it. If the evangelicals had any brains they wouldn’t be evangelicals. Nor would they be blantantly prejudiced over someone else’s faith. Fortunately, most people aren’t so afflicted.
NNtrancer on July 29, 2008 at 1:34 PM
revolution, rule number one, and a very polite one, in e-communication, is to never, ever, use all caps.
Entelechy on July 29, 2008 at 1:36 PM
Yes, that’s the rule, but revolutionaries don’t like rules.
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 1:40 PM
Huckabigot is such a POS I can’t even stand it. Only a complete egomaniac would ever attack another man like this just to keep himself “higher” in the political pecking order.
davenp35 on July 29, 2008 at 1:40 PM
Eagles do occasionally flock.
eaglesdontflock on July 29, 2008 at 1:40 PM
Let’s see if I’ve got this down–I’m an evangelical. I have no brains whatsoever. OK?
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 1:41 PM
revolution hit the nail on the head.
these backwood redneck bornageek pretend christians should put their white robes BACK on and expose their traditional glory.
Roger Waters on July 29, 2008 at 1:45 PM
I agree on the first point. This current loud attack on Mormonism has its roots in the Huckabee run for office which was based on bringing God back into the front room. Huck’s most religious opponent was Romney who also is not ashamed of believing in God. It was a battle to find the true preacher of the Gospel, although Huckabee and his group were the only ones fighting.
I am also evangelical. I do not believe the books of the Mormon are true. However we share the Bible. A devout Mormon politician would make his moral decisions from the same base.
Romney’s father did not have this ‘Mormon problem’ when he was governor of my state of Micigan. I think this is because his opponents avoided the subject because his plain faith made him look good and they were not running for ‘most religious’ governor.
Yuckabee is so out of the running this is becoming a joke if it wasn’t so nasty.
On the second point, Palin is a member of Feminists for Life. She vetoed legislation that would have barred state benefits to same sex couples, supposedly on advise the legislation was constitutional in that state. Had she supported that bill she should have signed it and let the constitutionality be decided in the courts. It was a cheap trick IMHO
Pawlenty has a similar saga, now claiming the one vote he should not have made was the Minnesota Human Rights Act involving gay rights.
I am weary of politicians with too much cunning or too little backbone
Romney is very appealing to me. I was spoiled by his father’s good service. I appreciate the plain way the son speaks.
entagor on July 29, 2008 at 1:49 PM
That’s funny I haven’t seen one mormon bashing comment on this thread….but I have seen over a hundred Christian bashing comments.
Who is the (insert favorite liberal PC word here)?
SaintOlaf on July 29, 2008 at 1:50 PM
Some evangelicals express a preference;
Roger Waters, NNtrancer, revolution, Entelechy, & many others express hate and the bigotry they accuse all evangelicals of having.
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 1:51 PM
Entelechy,
It’s called Thorizine, pup. Might want to pick up a bottle.
revolution on July 29, 2008 at 1:52 PM
Careful–they’ll accuse you of having a martyr complex.
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 1:52 PM
My, that was a completely inappropriate reaction to a rather innocuous statement. Her suggestion makes sense - a female candidate has the potential to pick up discouraged Clinton supporters.
(And it’s Thorazine)
Slublog on July 29, 2008 at 1:55 PM
Wouldn’t it be sad to find out that McCain lost more with Pawlenty or Palin than all this speculation about a loss with the obviously best qualified choice, Romney?
eaglesdontflock on July 29, 2008 at 1:56 PM
Entelechy expressing hate and bigotry?
Entelechy expresses intellignce and reason.
entagor on July 29, 2008 at 1:57 PM
“Religious hypocrisies” does not explain the preferences that some evangelicals have expressed.
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 2:04 PM
…which surprised me, because Entelechy usually does refrain from such mischaracterizations.
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 2:06 PM
McCain should pick Romney simply because he is a valid POTUS if he should be called up.
Huck supporters will vote for Romney because Hucakbee will support a McCain/Romney ticket. Just as Romney would’ve supported a McCain/Huckabee ticket.
Unfortunately for the Huck supporters is that their guy isn’t made for the presidency. He is much better as a talking head on Fox, that’s his niche. He’ll do much better in conservative talk then in politics.
America is never going to elect someone who is so religious like Huck…EVER. Huckabee doesn’t have a career in national politics.
But if he wants a career in GOP talk media then he will surely support a McCain/Romney ticket. Otherwise, with a Democrat in the White House and a democratically controlled Congress….the Fairness Doctrine is going to probably eliminate a good portion of conservative media. Then Huck will be back only selling lectures in Arkansas for a living.
sheryl on July 29, 2008 at 2:08 PM
No, I am angry. If you look at olafs posts and mine and decide I’m hate filled then what I said about olaf goes for you also. Hunker down in your hate filled, delusional, life and wait for God to bail you out. It ain’t gonna happen, he came once, sacrificed his Son and gave us everything we need to make this work. Jesus said the meek shall inherit the earth, running around claiming you know how to relate to God better then any doesn’t sound very meek. I have serious doubts about all organized religions but if a more righteous, solid group of citizens of any persuasion than the mormons, exists point them out.
peacenprosperity on July 29, 2008 at 2:20 PM
Thank you - I completely agree. I am not choosing a pastor I am choosing a President, and being qualified for and good at one does not necessarily make you qualified for the other.
Govgirl on July 29, 2008 at 2:25 PM
“That’s funny I haven’t seen one mormon bashing comment on this thread….but I have seen over a hundred Christian bashing comments.”
To use an already used term, BINGO!
The only bigotry displayed in this comment thread is that propagated by Christian-haters.
Feel good, AP?
Al-Ozarka on July 29, 2008 at 2:27 PM
I’ve never been called a psychotic or delusional before.
The others I’ve read about me on HA a few times.
I promise, I’ll prayerfully examine my heart to see if there’s any truth whatsoever to those accusations.
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 2:31 PM
” I’m an evangelical Christian. I believe that, even though Mormons worship Christ, they don’t qualify as a true Christian denomination, because of other factors within their religion. I would also not hesitate to vote for Romney. I’m not voting for a Messiah, I’m voting for a President and Vice President. Religion has little to nothing to do with it. As long as they aren’t actively anti-Christian, that aspect matters little to me.
Buford Gooch on July 29, 2008 at 11:37 AM
Thank you - I completely agree. I am not choosing a pastor I am choosing a President, and being qualified for and good at one does not necessarily make you qualified for the other.”
For president, the two of you don’t seem to mind electing a pro-abortion, pro-gun control, pro overinflated government program kind of guy, eh?
Let’s hope you don’t represent the majority of the GOP.
Let’s hope there is a battle in Minneapolis and we can nominate a real representative of the GOP instead of McCain.
Or your liberal choice for POTUS, Romney.
Al-Ozarka on July 29, 2008 at 2:32 PM
Feel good, AP?
Al-Ozarka on July 29, 2008 at 2:27 PM
I’m really tired of this type of comment. AP, Ed, Michelle post things for us to discuss and read. Getting angry and thinking that this is posted with the intent to anger Christians is just ignorant. If you don’t like what you’re reading, just change the damned channel and hush up.
mimi1220 on July 29, 2008 at 2:33 PM
I wonder if he cares what he’s doing to conservatism. To people. The atheist, creationist, or Mormon threads are good for getting high “hit” counts.
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 2:34 PM
No one said that. But the anger toward Christians is a byproduct of whatever he does intend.
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 2:36 PM
I don’t think this has anything to do with religious bigotry. I think that Evangelicals are just afraid that Mormonism will become confused and associated with their faith in the popular mind which is not the same thing as hating Mormons.
aengus on July 29, 2008 at 2:36 PM
“Getting angry and thinking that this is posted with the intent to anger Christians is just ignorant.”
Until you really think about it after checking the archives to see that it is, in fact, true.
I don’t think I mentioned Ed. Or Michelle for that matter.
Al-Ozarka on July 29, 2008 at 2:38 PM
I don’t like what I’m reading, but I love people & hate error, so I’m compelled to respond.
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 2:39 PM
Hey I’m not voting for the muslim either….am I a “bigot”?
SaintOlaf on July 29, 2008 at 2:44 PM
I would vote for a Mormon or a Muslim who’s conservative & loves this country.
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 2:46 PM
I liked Romney about as much as I liked McCain in the primaries - which was not much. But, if facing the same thing we are facing now with Romney instead of McCain, I would vote for him. I WAS for a while a Huckabee supporter - but I got sick and tired of the class warfare CRAP that he kept pulling with the “Americans want a President that looks like the guy working next to them and not the guy who laid them off”. Anyone with half a brain knew it was directed at Romney and it was uncalled for. Romney earned his money and I do not begrudge him it. As for Romney’s Mormonism which is the topic of this thread while I do not acknowledge it as a branch of Christianity because of some of its tenets, I am not going to eliminate a man for President of the United States because of it either. The same is also true in reverse, being a Southern Baptist minister (and I have close connections who actually know Huckabee) does not qualify one for President.
Govgirl on July 29, 2008 at 2:46 PM
I know, I know…”How dare I make a (GASP) distinction between Truth and un truth….how bigoted of me.
SaintOlaf on July 29, 2008 at 2:46 PM
Well like I was trying to say above I think it is precisely because Mormonism is so close to Evangelism that makes Evangelicals uncomfortable.
Romney would be seen as a representative of their faith - unthinkingly labelled a member of the “Christian Right” - all over the world.
aengus on July 29, 2008 at 2:48 PM
Voting for an openly declared Muslim, even one who was not secretly planning to sabotage the US, would be like dropping a hydrogen bomb on yourself.
When news reached the worldwide ummah that Mohammed’s propechy of global Islamic domination was coming true the rush to World War III would be unstoppable.
aengus on July 29, 2008 at 2:52 PM
Al Ozarka and SaintOlaf are here, I see. They strenously deny that anti-Mormon sentiment exists, though they spend their time mostly explaining how Mormons will go to hell.
And I’m not kidding. Look at this picture of protesters at a Pageant: http://www.fairlds.org/graphics/alw55.jpg to see how I’m not kidding. I’m sorry for jpaginoy, but the majority of my experiences with “evangelicals” is when they come to my hometown for two weeks to shout how I’m going to hell. I’m not exaggerating, either. Most evangelicals aren’t like that, of course. But those who ARE loudly, proudly claim to be evangelical. They are the spiritual descendents of those who thought it was a commandment by God to murder and rape Mormons in the 1800’s.
It’s a problem for all decent evangelicals, but there is a strong contingent of those who think hate is a commandment of God. Most of those are, curiously, Huck supporters.
Vanceone on July 29, 2008 at 2:54 PM
Govgirl,
If you will pay attention, you’ll see that it’s not evangelicals who are showing bigotry on this thread. Plenty of people SAYING that Huck-supporters are/were bigots concerning Romney, but no evangelicals sayong it.
We have good reason to oppose the guy. Just as we have good reason to oppose McCain, the Democrat.
I have lots of respect for Allahpundit. He’s got a great sense of humor and he knows how to pick relevant subjects for discussion.
But…his blog archives will support the claims of those who say he likes the Christian-bashing.
Al-Ozarka on July 29, 2008 at 2:56 PM
Okay, full disclosure: I am Pagan. I dislike Huck for other reasons. But I have no dog in the Mormons versus Fundamentalists tiff. And I really think Huck just stirred that hornet’s nest because he saw Romney as his closest rival.
It’s not a two-man race for the Veep spot, guys. Decreasing Romney’s chances does not increase Huck’s chances. All it does is create a whole lot of unnecessary drama in the GOP that we don’t need right now. Look at the polls, y’all–Mac has a chance. And even if you don’t like Mac, you can’t help but like four plus years of inter-Democrat fighting a McCain win will produce. Let’s NOT p155 this chance away because of some ex-candidate’s power play.
If it takes not taking Romney as the running mate, I am willing to live with that if it also means those who dislike Romney live with Huckabee not being the nominee either.
Sekhmet on July 29, 2008 at 2:56 PM
Sorry non-Catholics, but unless you are part of the “one holy Catholic church” you are not Christian either. The Nicene Creed says so…
Really? Glad you know the man’s character and that what he would have done 40 years ago had he been in the military. He was the only one that did what he could to get out of a war that was being fought to lose by a Democrat Gov. right? That comment was just dumb.
Tought you were banned. Guess there was a pardon or something.
Yup, still not in touch with reality.
As I said before, the only “true Christian” is a Catholic. The Nicene Creed says so, there for that is all that matters. What Christ may actually think, and what the people actually believe does not matter because of a few conventions held 300+ years after he died are the real deciders. But I completely agree that we are not voting for our Prophet / Dali Lama / etc.
Sometimes bigotry is bigotry. If Romney was the exact same person but was evangelical a HUGE percentage of those against him would just say that he had seen the “error of his ways” and that he had done the best job possible to support the laws of the state he was being elected to run. He is not pro-abortion, never was pro-abortion. He was pro-choice as that was the law, and can tell you exactly the day and events that caused him to become pro-life.
On second thought, don’t ban this one. The crazy is strong with him and it makes me laugh. =D
Voidseeker on July 29, 2008 at 2:56 PM
“Al Ozarka and SaintOlaf are here, I see. They strenously deny that anti-Mormon sentiment exists, though they spend their time mostly explaining how Mormons will go to hell.”
Vanceone
Let’s see you back that up, pal.
Al-Ozarka on July 29, 2008 at 2:57 PM
“…it was a commandment by God to murder and rape Mormons in the 1800’s.”
DUDE! And I thought it was Mormons who massacred those not of their faith.
How stupid of me.
Al-Ozarka on July 29, 2008 at 2:58 PM
I don’t get the desperation. At one point in the campaign carter was up by 30 points over Ronald Reagan, dukakis had a huge lead over Bush and the latest Bush was behind right up until both election days. As bad as mccain is with his own base, it certainly looks like barry’s messiah act is not going over as big as the media wants everyone to think. No matter who he picks, it looks like the country understands that barry can’t be president.
peacenprosperity on July 29, 2008 at 3:15 PM
If I expressed “hate and bigotry” in this thread, and the one in the headlines, on same topic, then the world is in good shape, better shape than I thought.
jgapinoy, you need to check the med-dispenser. I think you picked up the wrong choice for today. You surprised me too.
revolution, I don’t take meds, don’t drink and don’t do dope.
I simply want your and jgapinoy’s party to win.
Slublog and entagor, thanks for being so consistent, clear, and dependable in your thinking.
Entelechy on July 29, 2008 at 3:18 PM
1) The “real” Christians constant chant that the Mormons are not part of the Christain club is bigotry.
2) This subject/post on hotair is ABOUT the views / actions of Evangelicals, not Mormons. Of course the majority of comments are going to be about them.
Again with lies. When you can be honest and not misleading maybe there will be a point to responding to you / engaging you in debate. I understand now that it is pointless at this time. Good day.
Voidseeker on July 29, 2008 at 3:18 PM
I won’t hold modern Mormons accountable for what happened in September Dawn. Mormonism’s core beliefs have changed as much as Mitt Romney’s.
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 3:19 PM
I’ve got a new idea! lets have the church tell the state what to do. In fact, they can just pick and choose who we elect. Huck and his network of pastors can go ^&*( %&*%
hanzblinx on July 29, 2008 at 3:19 PM
Case in point, original text:
Your out of context snipit, and dishonest implied slander:
Voidseeker on July 29, 2008 at 3:22 PM
Al Ozarka: You really are that dumb, aren’t you? Newsflash: The LDS church is the only one to have explicit genocide orders issued against it by a governmental organization. At the instigation of so-called evangelical preachers, among others.
Let’s see: Mormons were driving by force from Missouri, Illinois (cannons shooting at them there), and all the improvements forcibly taken. If you seriously claim with a straight face that Mormons didn’t suffer the worst deprivations of their religious liberty, primarily at the instigation of those who were just like you, bigoted “evangelical Christians” then you have no connection with anything resembling truth.
How many thousands of Mormons lie dead on the plains of America because they were driven by the sword from their homes? And to this day you “hardcore” evangelicals don’t admit anything was wrong with it at all–some of you hanker to do it all over again!.
Vanceone on July 29, 2008 at 3:23 PM
True. This thread has largely been about directing venom at all evangelicals for a minority of evangelicals daring to express a preference.
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 3:23 PM
This thread is reason enough not to pick Mr. Romney as VP.
We’d have interminable and inane discussions like this, during the run, and after the election, if McCain/Romney should win.
Entelechy on July 29, 2008 at 3:26 PM
As I understand it, it was everybody who drove Mormons west because of their polygamy, wasn’t it?
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 3:26 PM
If it’s McCain/Romney, I’ll gladly campaign for them.
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 3:27 PM
If you think that any intelligent person is lumping all evangelicals into the same group as those being talked about in the post, you are wrong. But the evangelicals in the comments are not helping the cause with their comments.
I am being sarcastic when I say that only Catholics are true Christians, choosing to use the same statements by some commenters to show how absurd the comments are.
This is not an anti-evangelical post - it is an anti-stupid-and-bigot post, whom happen to be a small % of evangelicals.
Voidseeker on July 29, 2008 at 3:33 PM
No, actually it was not. The Mormons were under constant attack, before they were even a church, and long before polygamy was enacted.
But yes, everybody kept pushing them west. It was not a crime to kill a Mormon at one point even.
Voidseeker on July 29, 2008 at 3:38 PM
I didn’t say they were intelligent, but yes, many in this thread have lumped us all together as bigots (& a variety of other harsher terms).
jgapinoy on July 29, 2008 at 3:40 PM
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