I did read the entire post. and I will repeat MY question.

Do you think Plate tectonics is true or not? simple enough.

You say it is a theory which it is. however a thoery does not mean it is not a provable scientific fact. In fact for something to become a theory it has to be provable by scientific fact.

you are confusing a thoery with a hypothesis (i.e a guess)

a scientific THEORY is believed fact until it is proven wrong.

bayam on July 30, 2008 at 6:02 PM

Yeah ok.. so tell me how in the middle of Winter in Anchorage, Alaska when there is only 4 hours of sunlight how I can power my whole freaking house?

As I said to unseen…. the world does not rotate around you.

I predict that as oil prices sink below $100, the whole energy issue will be swept under the rug by the Democrats and we’ll just be in the same pickle we were before.

Remember when oil hit $70 several years ago, and then sank to 50? The issue just disappeared for almost 6 months. At 70, I was constantly getting phone calls from the local paper for my take on the situation (I’m the only petroleum geologist in far West Texas). Then the issue vanished.
And then (of course) the price jumped way the hell up, and everyone started freaking out again.
That’s our energy policy in the 21st century: periods of inattentive boredom punctuated by weeks of panicky terror. Simple idiocy, in other words.

And one thing else (belatedly): upinak is 100% correct (as ususal), Carbon and Plate Tectonics are simply theories, not provable scientific fact.
But, like laying a hundred down on Secretariat to beat a one-legged midget in a mile and a quarter match race at Belmont, they’re pretty good bets.

TexasJew on July 30, 2008 at 1:55 AM

You ignorant screw ball.. READ PEOPLE WHOLE DAMN POSTS!

COMMENTS:
You have to be the dumbest person to ever occupy that chair…your Botox has killed brain cells.

70% of the American people say Drill and Drill Now!!! Your bullxxxx is so inanely stupid. BUT, keep it up! Keep saying your stupid stuff. It will be a GOP sweep if you and Harry keep playing your act.

You were wrong on the surge and you are wrong again. Oh, that’s why your approval rating is in the toilet.

correction on that one

I’m afraid you are wasting your breath. It’s like talking to your grandfather about something. very closed minded, most of the posters on this thread have been, and stuck in the past.

they have not kept up and refuse to see the promise that is a new dawning of energy. any biologist will tell you the rate of growth in an animal population depends on energy. The more energy and the cheaper its is to get (I.e less threat to life, less energy expanded in the animal world) the more and cheaper the energy the higher thew growth rate and the bigger the population. the bison thrived on cheap plentiful energy.

Well it appears the inability to read can be added to your list. I have stated time and time again that solar/wind is part of the solution. would you use solar in alsaka in a house with a night of 6 months out of the year? Only if you are a moron or an idiot.

The midwest is ther Saudi Arabis of wind. No where else in the world does the wind blow like in the midwest. Not to try to use that is beyond stupid. Just like the early settlers used wind to help pump their water instead of using a mule.

the southwest is the land of sun it’s a dessert you would have to be stupid not to try to use that energy in AZ,NM,NV, CA and other states.

The east and west coasts have the oceans right next door. Failure to try to capture the energy from those forces is stupid also. Failure to try to capture the energy of geothermal in ICEland and instead import Natural gas for their energy needs would be stupid, Yellowstone national park is atop the one of the world’s biggest caldrea. Old faithful etc this area can be used for geothermal.

ethonal can be made from other forms of biomass besides corn. and should be used.

I am thinking of a “regional solutions” to tackle the national energy policy.(i.e federalsim) The one size fits all energy approach is yours. the energy policy that works in Hawaii would maybe not work in Iowa. Closed minds look for national solutions.

I’m still waiting for the
“plate tectonic” rebuttal. as texasjew says he would want to bet against it. Care to try?

You don’t seem to know much about solar tech. This problem has been solved by solar thermal technology. It doesn’t affect wind to the same degree.

However, there are valid points here. Our power infrastructure must be updated in order to handle more variant power outputs.

It’s also true that energy companies feel sticker shock at the price of solar or wind tech. Free sunlight is a misleading term as that’s realized only after a solar plant has been constructued. A coal plant costs far less upfront to build, offset by higher ongoing maintenance plus the obvious cost of coal as plant fuel. In the world of business, higher ongoing costs are easier to handle.

Clean tech requires a much larger investment upfront, which makes financing more difficult. However, evergy companies aren’t responsible for evaluating national security policy and US energy strategy. (James Woolsey is very articulate in explaining how energy is a major security issue.) Only the US government can bring national security into the picture for local energy companies, by making it easier for energy co’s to finance the massive upfront costs of clean energy. But it’s certainly worth the expense and will only become cheaper as energy commodity costs rise over time.

The reason the alternatives are not in use today is very simple: the engineering problems they pose make them more expensive than the technologies they’d be replacing.

That would have been an interesting point about 5 years ago but it’s time to wake up. Intel has said that within 4 years, their solar panel technology will take solar energy to parity with coal- and that’s not assuming a carbon tax or the inevitable increases in coal commodity costs as the developing world demands more energy.

Intel isn’t your local group of tree huggers. Intel is hard core science and technology and consistently breaks old technical barries. There are other promising solar technologies that promise parity today, although no large scale tests have proven their potential yet. In any case, the world of clean energy as the province of eco dreamers is over. The big players- the Intels and Samsungs and GEs of the world- are moving in and with massive resources. One of the largest backers of wind turbines in the country is Berkshire Hathaway, which has a track record of picking winners.

Oil drilling should continue at full pace, but just as importantly we need to start moving behind fossil fuels and our massive dependency on foreign oil. Natural gas may well be one of the solutions.

If you know people in the trucking industry, then you know that a natural gas powered truck isn’t considered a crazy idea anymore. A technology that lowers the price of fuel by $2 per gallon at today’s prices is starting to look like a very promising alternative. If oil ever reaches $200 per barrel, large companies will start moving to natural gas trucks en masse without any government regulation to encourage the change. Oil consumption in China, India, and other developing counries will continue to surge once the global enconomy picks up, and the impact on oil prices won’t be friendly to Americans.

unseen on July 30, 2008 at 4:24 PM

LMFAO @ you!

Read texasjew’s comment. Whom is a Petroleum Geologist. I don’t have to go any further then that… as I have taken the courses as well.

As for forsight into the future… you have to :spend some money before you make some money”, which if from being a business owner at one time in my life and it rings true. As I am not one who believes in all alternative energy, there are some things that help. Solar panels for water heaters is a great thing. Now how do you make it for a house about 2100 sq ft that is in the dark half the year?

You are thinking on “your terms and your state” I on the other hand know from experience that everything you have said concerning “renewable or reusable” can’t always be done.

Case closed and you vision is needed to expand a little. The world doesn’t rotate around you, you need to rotate around your world a little bit.

Throughout history there have always been the people that say it can’t be done. there were people in the 1950’s that said the interstate program was pie in the sky. People that said the airlift to berlin was useless. People that said we should not fight the USSR instead just except the status quo. People that have said flight was impossible, that the humans on the moon was fantasy. That cell phones were magic. That sails on ships where the only way to travel. that scoffed at the steam engine and declared that horses would always be the mode of transportation. The list goes on. the fact that you can not see does not mean it will not work. You assume that nothing new will happen that no new discoveries will occur. you assume that this is the 70’s again. Unlike the hard left that sees oil as evil or the hard right that sees oil as the ONLY soucre of energy I see a middle way. I can see Americians having two or three cars each running on different fuels and the decsion on what to drive depending on the cost of that fuel for the day. or the distance one must travel. Most American already have two cars why do they need to be gas cars. A switch over to a more diverse energy generation will increase wealth in this country onehundred fold just like the switch to oil increased wealth in this country over the last century.

People like you are the people that have no vision, that can not imagine a different world. they can not think outside the box. For every “point” you bring up there are other points that show you are wrong.

Will the change over be easy? Will it be cheap? No and No. Can we continue down the path of shipping 700 Billion over seas? can we have our entire economy based on one input? No and no again.

the problem with America today is that there is no vision. No manifest destiny.

Solar energy, Wind energy, geothermal, tidal, CNg, coal to liquid, biomass, ethonel have all been shown to work to some degree. Some at cheaper costs than the present “energy source” Will any of them work for all occasions? No. Oil is PART of the answer not the total answer.

As far as the “theory of Plate tectonics” if you got a better explaination of geology I’m all ears. Plate tectonics is the only unifying theory of why and how the earth does what it does. Of course we could just chalk it
up to some magical occurance or something.

should take your own advice.

unseen on July 30, 2008 at 3:01 PM

You are promoting a false hope. I, highscot, Texasjew and a few others actually work in the industry and are trying everything to get the energy people demand. As you sit there and spout off falisy of products and a energy souce that can not be harnessed in mass amounts.

You are just ticked off… get over it.

upinak on July 30, 2008 at 2:30 PM

should take your own advice.

Just like humans moved from wood to coal to oil, they will continue to move to cheaper more available energy products.

Simply because you have no vision does not make others that do wrong.

unseen on July 30, 2008 at 1:31 PM

Humans (if you want to believe in the evolution theory as well) started with wood, then rendered fat from animals for “oil” (aka dead animals), then a coal like substance called lignite which is usually the type of “coal” that is exposed more often on the surface, then on to MORE animal products (whale oil and baleen comes to mine) then onto our crude and coal.

FYI Coal has been around for thousands of years. It was the main source of how to make those beautiful swords that everyone gawks at at museums. As well as making… horse shoes!

Don’t assume.

Geothermal will always be more a small geographic thing.
unseen on July 30, 2008 at 1:31 PM

geothermal is more a problem then you realize and can also be a saving grace concerning areas that do not have heavy winter issues. The pressure associated with the fracturing of a area for the water to get down there and to be brought back up is obviously beyond your thinking. Also, if they are in an area of extreme stress (aka your techtonic plate theory) it CAN blow if there is an earthquke. Also the fact that the casings they use are beginning to deteriorate due to the sulfer and acid content. It doesn’t matter if the casings are made of metal or concrete.. they are failing and casings are NOT easy to repair or replace once put in place.

California has a geothermal area that the Navy provided over near China Lake base, which is starting to fail after 50 years, that isn’t in their 2004 report.. The Area is becoming colder, due to the water they are plugging into the fissure.

Here is the 2004 report:
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/geothermal/pdfs/gao_04_513_navy_geothermal_program.pdf

But you may want to look into other such as:

Multi Area of the United States for Geothermal: http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Glossary/ThermalActivity/description_thermal_activity.html

And the Coso Geothermal Corrosion Studies from the DOE, Naval Weapons Center which is now at the base at… wait for it… China Beach:
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=5075681

unseen, this is something you seriously have no clue about and I am very actively involved in. Stop before you make a fool of yourself.

philwynk on July 30, 2008 at 1:09 PM

Nothing like having words put in my mouth. Oil companies are like any other companies in the USA. companies by themselves are no more evil than any person. I’m sure there are some great players in the field as well as some bad apples in that field.

wind has been said to be able to produce 20% of our electricity. Solar will more than likely remain a fraction of the electricity output.(unless you include biomass in the solar equation)

Geothermal will always be more a small geographic thing.

Oil/coal/NG will be around for decades if not centuries as a part of our economy and our energy usage.

The nuclear/hydrogen angle is very promising and should be explored. Hydrogen has the added benifit of of being able to be produced by individuals.

You are still thinking pre $70.00/bl oil. While it may get back to that level IMO oil firms at $100/bl which would make all other forms of energy price compeitive. The prsent addtional cost and reason for the slow uptake is that the systems do not have the needed infrastructure. There are not many CNG pumps or cars on the road, there are little or no transmission lines for solar and wind plants. Oil has had 100 years to build out its infrastructe. It will take time and oil will always be a part of the energy equation same with coal except it has had even longer to build its infrastructure.

Just like humans moved from wood to coal to oil, they will continue to move to cheaper more available energy products.

Simply because you have no vision does not make others that do wrong.

He calls the current system “one size fits all.” Ironically, that better describes his solution than the current system. When the government gets involved, it invariably winds up mandating a less-than-optimal solution (ethanol, anyone?) that becomes the one-size-fits-all approach. If they’d just had the sense to leave the damn system alone, the market would generate any number of plausible alternatives, and — here’s the point, pay attention — pick the ones that make the most sense in each application.

Nobody with the slightest knowledge of energy development thinks geothermal will ever amount to more than 2% of power generation; and who knows what tapping all that heat out of the earth’s core will do to the climate, let alone tectonic stability? No wind farm in use today generates more than 20% of its rated capacity; they all require fossil fuel backups just to maintain profitability, and given US geography, will never supply more than about 7% of our electricity. Some solar technologies show some promise, but still require intensive land and material usage, long-distance electrical transmission that wastes power, and storage systems that don’t exist; and who knows what a full-size solar plant will do to the biosphere (ANWR, anyone?)

Short version: only freaking loons who have acquired a little bit of knowledge (a dangerous thing!) are talking about solar and wind as reasonable alternatives. The folks who actually know the technology are talking about nuclear power and fuel cells, about rebuilding the electrical grid, and about building a hydrogen distribution system. That’s where the smart money goes — and unfortunately for unseen and his imaginary solutions, that’s where the investment has been going on.

Why don’t you admit it, unseen? You’re actually talking about solar and wind, ultimately, because you think the oil companies are EEEEEEEvil, and hate the idea of them profiting. Isn’t that right?

TexasJew on July 30, 2008 at 3:22 AM

yeah this is due to a guy by the name of Mayor Mark Begich (aka the new wannabe Senator to replace Stevens)… this guy is an idiot all the way around, but his adds reach across all lines when if you know anything about him, he is a sneaky little shit. I never voted for him…. he isn’t worth the spit on the sidewalk.

upinak on July 30, 2008 at 2:26 AM

Unbelievable – a freaking idiot wind farm in Alaska, while pissed-off Alaskans are sitting on 20-30 billion barrels of untapped oil (because the Dims won’t let us drill).

TexasJew on July 30, 2008 at 1:55 AM

hey, I can’t help the fact that even a hard science such as geology still has more then enough theories to go around. I may not explain science very well, but I think I explain it well enough for anyone to understand, including children.

BTW I do remember when oil hit 15 dollars a BBL here in Alaska in which they shut down so many damn wells (plugged and abandoned **P&A** for those who do not know the terms) in 1985 – 1993. It was interesting watching EVERYONE leave Alaska at that time and seeing the brand new house sitting there and collecting dust.

Now they want to try a “wind famr” on this island called Fire Island, which I don’t see working to well in -30 this winter.

To the Dems, we’re all needy parasites waiting for them to simply shower us with stolen money. And then, of course, we’ll vote for them.