Video: Penn & Teller versus … creationism
posted at 8:30 pm on July 26, 2008 by Allahpundit
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With due thanks and praise to the Lizard King, I give you the ultimate lazy-Saturday flame-war starter. If this thread doesn’t do a thousand comments then the terrorists have already won. Content warning.
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I really enjoyed their show on “being Green” which prompted me to put this on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130242005428&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=003
Meric1837 on July 26, 2008 at 8:32 PM
Wow! You are in a frisky mood tonight Allah…beer night? :-)
AUINSC on July 26, 2008 at 8:34 PM
This video will be removed from YouTibe for Copyright infringement i’m sure right?
Chakra Hammer on July 26, 2008 at 8:34 PM
YouTube, LubeTube whatever..
Chakra Hammer on July 26, 2008 at 8:35 PM
Penn and Teller arguments, even with the things that I agree with them on, are lacking. Very shallow, a multitude of strawmen, etc etc.
- The Cat
MirCat on July 26, 2008 at 8:35 PM
Which vid answers the question about the dog heaven?
JiangxiDad on July 26, 2008 at 8:37 PM
wuv vs wuv
ninjapirate on July 26, 2008 at 8:37 PM
Cat, is the nature of entertainment, no?
Spirit of 1776 on July 26, 2008 at 8:37 PM
This is a thread?
wccawa on July 26, 2008 at 8:38 PM
Well I’ll this for you Allah, unlike Charles who bans everyone that disagrees with his fundie evolutionism at LGF, at least here we can disagree on this controversial issue and not worry about being banned if we actually disagree with the Theory of evolution…
LGF has been going nuts about this issue and it is so unnecessary….silly stuff really….
Albertanator on July 26, 2008 at 8:46 PM
With all this hoopla about creationism vs. evolution, designed to make people feel good about their own viewpoints, the real scandal is the piss-poor way that math is being taught in public schools.
TexasJew on July 26, 2008 at 8:48 PM
Isn’t this cute? It’s like four year olds calling each other poo-poo heads.
They don’t do a very good job of presenting the evolutionary model, nor that of intelligent design. Prima facia, good argumentation must needs admit the strongest position of the opponent.
Scribbler on July 26, 2008 at 8:52 PM
Can’t we compromise?
Let’s agree that the religious people are the product of intelligent design, while all others started as slugs.
JiangxiDad on July 26, 2008 at 8:53 PM
1000 or bust :D
heres my first post. I love Penn & teller but I don’t always agree with em lets watch this here stuff see where they stand this time!
-Wasteland Man.
WastelandMan on July 26, 2008 at 8:57 PM
Penn Gillette is a completely gaping sphincter. He may have convinced some to his side had he not been so condescending. What a douche!
And evolution IS a theory. It has not been proven.
SouthernGent on July 26, 2008 at 8:57 PM
I can’t be angry at them after they skewered the Global Warming religion. I admit Christianity is a religion. I just wish the Al Gore Cult members would admit they just believe, they don’t really have scientific support for their claims and solutions. Jesus still loves you Pen and Teller.
D0WNT0WN on July 26, 2008 at 8:57 PM
MirCat on July 26, 2008 at 8:35 PM
OK OK but whos better?
P&T or Micheal Moore with Straw man arguments?
hmmmmm?
-Wasteland Man.
WastelandMan on July 26, 2008 at 8:58 PM
All I know is I went to a party with me pappy and came home with me mum.
infidel on July 26, 2008 at 8:58 PM
Thanks to the content warning, I won’t be viewing the videos. If they’re not mature enough to express themselves in an adult way, then their opinions are probably not very deep.
jgapinoy on July 26, 2008 at 8:59 PM
There’s no way,humans crawled out of the primordial
ooze or goop!
canopfor on July 26, 2008 at 9:00 PM
Satan put the dinosaur bones there to trick you.
/flame
brak on July 26, 2008 at 9:01 PM
I’m a firm believer in intelligent design. I believe intelligent aliens designed us
thousandsmillionshundreds of millionsa long time ago for some purpose that is so far beyond our understanding that we may never be able to fathom it. I pray to God I’m wrong about this. Covering all the bases here. Somebody on one side or the other gets hacked off and calls me a name in 5,4,3,2Oldnuke on July 26, 2008 at 9:01 PM
I know it was for effect, but after the opener, where he recites Darwin and Dawkins from memory, complete with dramatic pauses, flamboyant gesticulations, lofty looking lecterns, and many other rhetorical devices that could be found in Cicero’s On Rhetoric, and is then met with the “Creationist’s” response, which amounted to nothing more than the physical beating with Holy Writ upon the noodle by a mute, one is left with the conclusion that no further participation in the viewing of this video is necessary.
Weight of Glory on July 26, 2008 at 9:06 PM
If he banned anyone it was probably because they were trying to tell him what to put on his web site after he told them to stop.
FloatingRock on July 26, 2008 at 9:06 PM
Oh, we can compromise…
Penicillin was discovered in the first part of the 20th century. Since then, in response to the early antibiotics, some microbes have mutated, adapted, evolved and became resistant to penicillin. (Those that didn’t got wiped out; those that did, got more room to grow.) Luckily scientists kept up and developed new kinds of antibiotics that can usually wipe out these evolved superbugs. So the next time that chest cold just won’t get better despite the antibiotics, I’ll go back to the doctor and ask him for the stronger stuff. You, of course, don’t believe in this evolution-shmevolution crap so for you there is no reason to upgrade from amoxycillin to cyproflaxin. Just stay home and let the power of prayer heal you.
Deal?
factoid on July 26, 2008 at 9:06 PM
:)
kc8ukw on July 26, 2008 at 9:07 PM
Of course they’re not very deep. They’re a comedy act, what would you expect?
Oldnuke on July 26, 2008 at 9:07 PM
Were they dicks when they went after the Truthers?
Jim Treacher on July 26, 2008 at 9:08 PM
I’m a firm believer…
Oldnuke on July 26,2008 at 9:10PM.
Oldnuke: I’ll raise you,I beleive God,created us and
the aliens!
Oh boy,here it comes blasphemer! haha:)
canopfor on July 26, 2008 at 9:10 PM
I’ve seen more than enough of this topic at LGF.
forest on July 26, 2008 at 9:10 PM
I believe that the entire cosmos was created in six reasonable days as stated in the first book of Moses, known as Genesis… but nevertheless I’m pretty sure I crawled out of the primordial ooze last time I went salmon fishing on the banks of the catching slough near here. Man, that mud was smelly and thick!
Scribbler on July 26, 2008 at 9:11 PM
Read the whole essay if you care to. I often disagree with the guy but I just love his eloquence here.
factoid on July 26, 2008 at 9:11 PM
Man I love Penn and Teller. I have to say though, AP, with all the BS shows they’ve produced, you finally post one and it’s this?
As a side note, has anyone else noticed that LGF should more properly be called EGF (Evolutionary Green Footballs) these days? Hey Charles, we get it. Thanx.
VolMagic on July 26, 2008 at 9:11 PM
I’m waiting for the grammarians to call me on this.
Weight of Glory on July 26, 2008 at 9:11 PM
Intelligent Design? Well let’s see. God creates everything in 6 days and was apparently pleased with his work. Shortly thereafter he becomes displeased and proceeds to kill everything in sight…on several occasions. Hmmm….what happened to “all-knowing”, huh? Doesn’t sound very intelligent to me.
DanKenton on July 26, 2008 at 9:12 PM
How did you know which I was proposing was better, the intelligently designed human, or the evolved slug?
JiangxiDad on July 26, 2008 at 9:12 PM
Of course there is a God, I’m a firm believer in creationism, but also know that life forms evolve as well. All a part of His master plan.
It’s just too bad that P&T have to, like most supposed debunkers on this, interview the extremist, nutty, southern evangelical fundamentalists. They need to talk to more Catholics.
JetBoy on July 26, 2008 at 9:12 PM
I’m really disappointed in this thread so far. It’s been up for over half an hour and only about 30 comments. Of course RedPill got banned and I think Apocalyps has gone into the wilderness to commune with Huckabee so nobody’s been called a heretic or liar yet. Very disappointing.
Oldnuke on July 26, 2008 at 9:13 PM
Heh
Spirit of 1776 on July 26, 2008 at 9:13 PM
I like Penn and Teller, but it’s really easy to “debunk” creationism. Just say “I don’t believe it”. Creationism rests largely on faith in, well, a Creator.
If you don’t believe in a Creator, you’ve debunked Creationism just as far as you can. Where’s the skill in that?
Jimmie on July 26, 2008 at 9:15 PM
The same amount of skill it takes to say I believe there’s a God because I have faith.
Oldnuke on July 26, 2008 at 9:18 PM
I think the six Earth Day interpration of Genesis is unfortunate, but on the other hand the issues with ID are just to subtle for either Penn&Teller or the Cobb County School Board. Too bad.
pedestrian on July 26, 2008 at 9:18 PM
The majority is always right…Right?
Most scientists believe in man-made global worming.
Most scientists believe that life spontaneously arose out of non-living matter.
Case closed…?
jgapinoy on July 26, 2008 at 9:20 PM
Man,that mud was smelly and thick!
Scribbler on July 26,2008 at 9:11PM.
Scribbler:So, the mud was thick,or thicker,or thickerer!:)
canopfor on July 26, 2008 at 9:20 PM
Sigh. You’ve resorted to taking half decade old copyrighted content in order to get people in the threads arguing about religion just so the traffic stays up while you take the weekend off from posting. I say just take the weekend off. HA is one of my home page tabs, so you’d still get the occasional hit from me even when you’re not posting. I’d hate to risk you guys getting slapped with a DCMA take down and a huge fine (although I think that’s YT’s problem in this particular case, as they are hosting the video) just ’cause you want to keep the comments and the traffic up.
malan89 on July 26, 2008 at 9:20 PM
…but some, like Dawkins, believe that life on Earth was “seeded” by spacemen.
jgapinoy on July 26, 2008 at 9:21 PM
…But who seeded the life on their planet?
jgapinoy on July 26, 2008 at 9:21 PM
It’s more than “faith”, it’s common sense. No one finds it harder to believe that the universe just “happened”? That life on Earth just happened to pop up?
JetBoy on July 26, 2008 at 9:23 PM
global
wormingwarmingjgapinoy on July 26, 2008 at 9:23 PM
No.
No.
No.
Definitely no.
Oldnuke on July 26, 2008 at 9:24 PM
Most scientists…..
jgapinoy on July 26,2008 at 9:20PM.
jgapinoy:Most scientists are idiots on Global Warming!
Besides our Sun,I heard there were over a
thousand active volcanoes on the ocean’s sea
beds,pumping out nasty stuff!:)
canopfor on July 26, 2008 at 9:25 PM
It’s coming. I guarantee that this thread will end with one of the HA cuckoo crew (Red Pill, Apaclyps, SaintOlaf, etc–I’m not sure who’s been banned and who hasn’t) declaring that they are the only person in the world that’s really a Christian and that they’ll pray for everyone else to come around to their POV so we don’t burn in a mass of hellfire.
malan89 on July 26, 2008 at 9:26 PM
Do you have proof or just a hunch? If you can’t prove it you’re taking it on faith. Nothing wrong with faith but without proof it’s just that.
Oldnuke on July 26, 2008 at 9:26 PM
Typical liberal, atheist crap. Wouldn’t have thought it was possible for P&T to be so dull. Great work. Go find the true fringe of the intelligent design argument and make them look like the poster children. And why don’t any of these scientists know more than… er… ah… natural selection. Ah, that explains how a marvel like the eyeball was created in what is the equivalent of an afternoon in geological time.
And when the scientist said that they don’t simply choose a cause they like and vote “yes,” I bust up laughing. Crap, that’s all Global Warming (oh… I mean “Climate Change”) is. Funny how they changed the name of their religion as well, huh?
Sugar Land on July 26, 2008 at 9:27 PM
Yeah, it’s starting to heat up a little now. Just slow to get started is all. Allah P knows his audience. Should have had more faith I guess :-)
Oldnuke on July 26, 2008 at 9:28 PM
OldNuke,
Most scientists do believe in man-made global warming.
And most scientists do believe that life arose from non-living matter umpteen billion years ago.
jgapinoy on July 26, 2008 at 9:29 PM
Another know-all confusing evolution with Evolution. Your example, sir, is flawed. Come back when your almighty mutating microbes turn themselves into something other than a different form of a minute bag of chemicals. As it is they’re doing little more than the equivalent of putting on disguises to avoid the police (penicillin) that’s looking to kill them.
evolution = changes within a particular lifeform or a species of lifeforms (see the famous peppered moths).
Evolution = simpler lifeform(s) changing into more complicated one(s).
The former has been observed umpteen times by scientists of every stripe. The latter has not. If anything current species of the world are breaking down, not building up. Humans alone have a boatload of defects caused by nothing more than our DNA going haywire. There will be more of them, popping up more often, as time passes. Count on it.
Dark-Star on July 26, 2008 at 9:30 PM
Is there proof that there is NO God?
JetBoy on July 26, 2008 at 9:31 PM
I’ll just have to take you on faith on that one, since I don’t know most scientists. But my gut feeling is that you’re dead wrong.
Oldnuke on July 26, 2008 at 9:32 PM
Even if Creationism is a fantastical myth, is there any reason to hound people who choose to believe in it if it makes them happy?
AbaddonsReign on July 26, 2008 at 9:33 PM
Nope, couldn’t possibly be.
Oldnuke on July 26, 2008 at 9:33 PM
SSSSsssssshhhhhhhh,be very,very still and quiet,
don’t even russle your Hot Air internet page,
AllahPundit,is setting up religious Moonbat traps,
to catch blasphemers,and heretics!haha:)
canopfor on July 26, 2008 at 9:33 PM
I honestly don’t understand why people argue about this. If I may venture an example. Teenagers and tend to hear higher frequencies then men. The difference is very pronounced between say dogs and people, but it exists also in people.
If you hear in that frequency nothing anyone can say will change your mind, and you’ll run around saying “what can’t you hear that, it’s right there!”
If you don’t here that frequency then everyone who says, “hear that!” looks like an schizophrenic.
So I honestly don’t understand why people argue this. Seems pointless.
Spirit of 1776 on July 26, 2008 at 9:33 PM
Teenagers and women, sorry about the absent word there.
Spirit of 1776 on July 26, 2008 at 9:34 PM
All ur evolutions are belong to us!
Killgore Trout on July 26, 2008 at 9:37 PM
OK…so there is no definitive proof either way. But…which makes the most sense…”Intelligent Design”? Or spontaneous “Big Bang” out of nowhere, the universe spreads, stars form, planets…and on Earth (at least) we go from a gaseous ball to sitting here, intelligent life, arguing the possibilities. All by chance.
JetBoy on July 26, 2008 at 9:37 PM
Same reason people used to argue about the number of stars in the sky. Everyone is right, and everyone’s opponent is an idiot. :)
VolMagic on July 26, 2008 at 9:39 PM
And yet no one is going to give you a cookie if you made a video that said exactly that, but padded it out to a half-hour or so by interviewing a few spittle-flecked atheists and professional “debunkers”.
You can’t “debunk” faith. It’s not particularly smart to try.
Jimmie on July 26, 2008 at 9:39 PM
Let’s try that again:
How ridiculous to make the God of the Bible the cause of evolution as it’s commonly taught to school children. What could be more crude, more needlessly complicated, more brutal, more wasteful, more failure-filled, indeed more evil than the process as presented at even its lowest levels of indoctrination? To suppose all that is the work of a loving, wise, precise and purposeful Being is an insult; if not to Him, then to the reason of anyone who - believer or not - at least knows what Scripture says of Him. Believe “God” is behind evolution if you want. Just don’t tray to say it’s the God of the Bible.
There. Fixed that for ol’ Chuckie.
splink on July 26, 2008 at 9:40 PM
ADDED: It does get you a few “cool points” that you can trade in when you do actually debunk the various shibboleths those who jeer at faith do hold sacred.
Jimmie on July 26, 2008 at 9:40 PM
…
You don’t quite seem to realize the stakes. If creation is totally false, we all just happened by chance over billions of years. There is no lasting reward for good behavior besides staying out of jail (and sometimes not even that). And if we’re not insanely famous, within a few decades after our death there will be nobody who remembered our lives or even would really care to know. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Dark-Star on July 26, 2008 at 9:41 PM
Neither have I but it’s one hot button topic and has been for as long as I can remember. People are continually trying to prove the unprovable. God exists or doesn’t can’t be proven either way. You either have faith or you don’t. Whether you believe or not you can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God.
Oldnuke on July 26, 2008 at 9:41 PM
Oldnuke, Is it your view that Matter is eternal? This isn’t a trick question; I just need to refine something I’m thinking about.
Weight of Glory on July 26, 2008 at 9:42 PM
I honestly don’t understand….
Spirit of 1776 on Julu 26,2008 at (;34PM.
Spirit of 1776: I’m in the same boat,so maybe everyone
has a different opinion than everyone
else,but good lord,to go for broke,and
literally go toe to toe,over someone
elses beliefs,get a grip,besides,one
global conflict with you know who,is
enough! :)
canopfor on July 26, 2008 at 9:42 PM
Oops that should be July,and not Julu,egads!
canopfor on July 26, 2008 at 9:43 PM
Yeah, I was going to say but you can count the stars in the sky, but you are right there too. Position and vision affect the number one would see.
With experiential nature, someone who feels they feel a spiritual connection will never be talked out of it. Those who don’t, don’t have the same reference points.
So I guess you are right, but what a colossal waste of energy.
Spirit of 1776 on July 26, 2008 at 9:43 PM
Even if you are insanely famous a few decades after you die no one will remember you.
Oldnuke on July 26, 2008 at 9:44 PM
Oldnuke on July 26, 2008 at 9:13 PM
You lying heretic!
Do you feel better now?
I’m going to dodge this one, and re-read a Harry Potter book or something. It’d be a more productive use of my time and I’m not in the mood today for the depths of stupidity these kinds of threads generate.
Remember, without the Bible there wouldn’t be such a thing as English!
;)
TABoLK on July 26, 2008 at 9:44 PM
True, but deduction does have a role to play.
Weight of Glory on July 26, 2008 at 9:44 PM
BUt not very well. It’s long on snide, though, so yay you. But if there’s a point there it’s really well-hidden.
Look, the fact of the matter is that the question of the very origin of life - where life actually came from in the first place - is entirely beyond the realm of science. Believe if you wish that it simply happened spontaneously if you want, but please don’t try to sell me on the notion that you have anything but faith to back you up on it.
Here’s a question: Why do you think that so many smart and well-intentioned people are eager to introduce Intelligent Design into our schools? Seriously. Give that question some fair thought.
Jimmie on July 26, 2008 at 9:45 PM
What do you mean the stakes? If you are one big accident, it doesn’t matter if you believe you are or not when your accident time is over.
Spirit of 1776 on July 26, 2008 at 9:46 PM
I have no actual conceptualization of eternal just as I don’t have one for infinity. I cannot remember before I was born and you’d have to do that before you could understand eternity. Eternity goes both ways not just into the future.
Oldnuke on July 26, 2008 at 9:46 PM
OMG the banana was made to perfectly fit into the human hand! OMG!
Dave Rywall on July 26, 2008 at 9:47 PM
No it doesn’t because the conclusion you draw will not necessarily be the one that someone else would. You need proof to back up your deductions. Otherwise it’s just a hunch.
Oldnuke on July 26, 2008 at 9:48 PM
*gag* Why don’t you just suggest some new ipecac-based drinking game, AP?
I was a regular LGFer for quite a long time; but Charles has developed a pathological predilection for excommunication that is not nearly as noble as he thinks it is, and this is precisely the sort of fodder he likes to use to generate sparks on his own site.
So, please let’s not go down that path here, hmm? Just linking to him only serves to encourage him and to motivate others.
Not that I seriously expect anyone to listen to me, but… that’s just my 2 cents.
Lee on July 26, 2008 at 9:49 PM
Maybe because that’s the closest they can hope to get to teaching an alternative view to that of the almighty Darwin?
Dark-Star on July 26, 2008 at 9:49 PM
Thanks, but it just didn’t feel right. You didn’t put the emphasis behind it that apocalyps could throw in. Still I do feel better now :-)
Oldnuke on July 26, 2008 at 9:50 PM
Is it just my computer, or has HA’s audio dropped out? I can’t hear a thing on any of the videos, though my local audio is working fine.
sondiehl on July 26, 2008 at 9:50 PM
I ain’t even saying you’re wrong, but… just bite me.
Lee on July 26, 2008 at 9:51 PM
According to the leading evolutionist of his day (the 1970s), Julian Huxley:
“I suppose the reason we all jumped at the Origin (of Species) was because the idea of God interfered with our sexual mores.”
jgapinoy on July 26, 2008 at 9:53 PM
Lol, I’m glad hand was the anatomy of choice to finish your insightful statement.
Spirit of 1776 on July 26, 2008 at 9:53 PM
Is it just my computer…
sondiehl on July 26,2008 at 9:50PM.
sondiehl: Is there a possibility,that your somewhere in
a happy place! haha:)
canopfor on July 26, 2008 at 9:54 PM
Audio is working fine for me.
Oldnuke on July 26, 2008 at 9:55 PM
If the a priori statement is true, then all deduction must be true, no? Then everyone comes to same conclusion.
I though induction was where real variability came in. Could be wrong…
Spirit of 1776 on July 26, 2008 at 9:56 PM
Charles Johnson banned me for mentioning that LGF has declined since he’s become enamored of evolution and has been villifying anyone who disagrees with him. It’s a tad bit annoying to find the beginnings of that here. This thread is on par with Jerry Springer.
Hot Air was cutting edge in its infancy.
windbag on July 26, 2008 at 9:57 PM
Yes it does. But given your answer regarding eternality, it’s not surprising you think there is no place for deduction when dealing with origins.
Weight of Glory on July 26, 2008 at 9:57 PM
As Ace says, Captain Bullshit has just found his first press secretary.
TheEJS on July 26, 2008 at 10:00 PM
The teaching of creationism is not science. Granted.
The teaching of evolution is the teaching of existence being random chance. Period. Natural selection, regardless of that woman’s haughty dismissal, is a process of chance.
So which is it? Magic man in the sky? Or absolute 1 in a trillion quadrillion lottery that this all happened?
Both are wrong, but there are elements of truth to each.
MadisonConservative on July 26, 2008 at 10:00 PM
Dang! It appears that you’ve reached one conclusion and I’ve reached another and neither of us can back up his argument. I guess we’ll just have to have faith and agree to disagree since neither of us has a snowball’s chance in hell of changing the other’s mind. Of course I’m right and you’re just…just well wrong, dang it.
Oldnuke on July 26, 2008 at 10:00 PM
If you are proceeding from a known point, but that’s not the case here. We do not know from any source that God exists or does not exist. You cannot use deductive reasoning to prove or disprove his existence.
Oldnuke on July 26, 2008 at 10:05 PM
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