Obama: Maliki wants a “time frame” with “some flexibility”
posted at 1:20 pm on July 22, 2008 by Allahpundit
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I mentioned this in an update to last night’s post but it warrants fuller attention. Here’s the vid:
We already knew before the Spiegel interview that the Iraqis wanted a “time horizon,” something aspirational but apparently largely dependent on the security situation. Then the Spiegel interview dropped and it sounded like Maliki was moving away from that and towards something more binding: 16 months, with a tiny bit of wiggle room perhaps for Obama-esque “tactical readjustments.” Now here’s Obama on Nightline, characterizing Maliki’s position per their discussion yesterday in a way that sounds to me more like that amorphous aspirational pre-Spiegel plan than a (basically) fixed timetable. The statement Obama released after the meeting even used the word “aspirational” to describe it, albeit while also insisting that Maliki wants a “clear date.” I can’t tell anymore if these semantic distinctions signify conceptual distinctions or if it’s to-may-to/to-mah-to, but my sense is that the Bush-endorsed “time horizon” is more conditions-dependent than the Obama timetable-with-readjustments. Where Maliki falls on that continuum — or the Iraqi Sunni leadership, which seems to favor a McCain readiness standard instead of a timetable — at this point is unclear to me, at least.
Pretty clear where Petraeus falls, though. From Obama’s presser in Jordan this morning:
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McCain may have the Obama love video out, but this Obama love fest will make you want to PUKE.
Rightwingsparkle on July 22, 2008 at 1:23 PM
Inventing new phrases really plays into Obama’s camp.
By the time November arrives and the public is beyond confused about the difference between “time tables” and “time horizons,” “tactical adjustments” and “clear dates” - or even “preconditions” and “preparations” - people will probably just say “Screw it” and pull the level for whichever candidate looks the best in jeans.
TheNolan on July 22, 2008 at 1:26 PM
Maliki’s been reading American newspapers and watching CNN International. He’s getting out in front of this parade.
RBMN on July 22, 2008 at 1:27 PM
Yes Obama might have put the smack down on the administration and McCain with regard to the recent developments in foreign policy, but he wants plenty of “flexibility” himself. It was touched upon in the primaries, language means a lot. Once we can get a solid definition of a combat troop and a residual troop, then we will know his intentions better. Right now he is using campaign rhetoric, and campaign rhetoric on both sides unless read carefully is a bad indicator as to future action. Then again sometimes they just outright lie.
LevStrauss on July 22, 2008 at 1:28 PM
The sequel to The Audacity of Hope could be called The Possibility of Slight Changes.
Buy Danish on July 22, 2008 at 1:35 PM
I’m sure that any “demands” for our withdrawal won’t include a rejection of several more injections of hundreds of billions of dollars into the newfound “democracy” in Iraq?
Isn’t it always that way?
Get the hell out. Let the sectarian bloodbath begin, again. Find Bin Hidin’ and exterminate that cockroach and his henchmen. Everything else, after that, will be gravy.
OhEssYouCowboys on July 22, 2008 at 1:37 PM
Oh, this just keeps getting worse and worse. Check out this AFP photo at yahoo news. I think we get what they are trying to convey.
Rightwingsparkle on July 22, 2008 at 1:37 PM
Everyday it’s something different, Maliki does agree with Obama, Maliki doesn’t agree with Obama, yes he does, no he doesn’t. Just having this debate makes it look like ‘yes he does’ must be the right answer , otherwise we wouldn’t even be having this debate.
The media’s gonna get their
ManchurianJanissary candidate elected.Tony737 on July 22, 2008 at 1:37 PM
Can this man put one sentence together when he doesn’t have a telepromter without at least 5 uhs?
Les in NC on July 22, 2008 at 1:40 PM
George W. Bush: Hello Mr. Maliki.
Maliki: Hello Mr. Bush.
George W. Bush: Don’t you think that you should “clarify” those remarks that you have been making lately?
Maliki: No. I don’t see why I should do that. I thought I was pretty clear. I mean you said that I got to be the sovereign leader of Iraq and that you wanted us to stand up so that you could stand down.
George W. Bush: Does the name Ngo Dinh Diem mean anything to you?
Maliki: I’ll get right on that “clarifying” right now!!! “Time horizons” was that what you wanted me to say? I don’t even know what the hell that means, but, I like it!!!
George W. Bush: I thought that you would see it my way.
MB4 on July 22, 2008 at 1:42 PM
Nope, the “Uh” and the “I mean” are tools for the slow-witted to buy time to think about what they want to say.
Obama isn’t very intelligent. His track record regarding world history proves that.
OhEssYouCowboys on July 22, 2008 at 1:43 PM
Oh good Lord, check out Sparkle’s link!
That’s the opposite of a t-shirt I saw a kid wearing on my plane the other day, it had Bush attacking the Statue of Liberty from behind. If I wasn’t at work I would’ve told him “If that were true, you wouldn’t be allowed to wear that shirt, ya little phuqqing dumbazz.”
Tony737 on July 22, 2008 at 1:44 PM
Wow. Here’s a Barry quote I missed from Nightline interview.
. (My apologies if this was covered and I missed it)
Tell me Barry, what exactly was your foreign policy role as a State Senator in Illinois? I know you gave a speech at an anti-war rally sponsored by some of your former SDS radicals friends and bundlers, so that kinda sorta makes one time at bat. Anything else?
Buy Danish on July 22, 2008 at 1:50 PM
its not of case of one day Maliki agrees with Waffles 2.0 and one day he deoesn’t. They both agree on wanting US “combat” troops out as soon as possible. But they also disagree on how that happens in regard to Iraq. Waffles 2.0 wants US troops out even if Iraq burns into an ember, Maliki would really like to have people and a country afterward. Only once has Waffles 2.0 ever tied troops withdrawal to Iraqi stability, when he got nailed for flip flopping, since then stability is left to negotiations and only US troops safety dictates the withdrawal pace.
What McCain needs to say is “Whether its 16 months, 10 months or 24 months I will bring most of the troops home but I’m going to make sure first they come home victorious after they leave a job they can be proud of. That means a safe and stable democratic Iraq, something my opponent seems to have no interest in seeing”
Zaggs on July 22, 2008 at 1:51 PM
Buy Danish on July 22, 2008 at 1:35 PM
LOL
becki51758 on July 22, 2008 at 1:53 PM
Rightwingsparkle on July 22, 2008 at 1:23 PM
Oh man…that made me totally want to throw up. ugh
becki51758 on July 22, 2008 at 1:56 PM
I wonder what Obama is doing negotiating with foreign leaders? I believe that is constitutionally left exclusively to the President. If Obama is willing to violate the constitution at the level of very junior Senator, just imagine what mischief he will get into if he gets elected to an office he is not qualified to hold.
Zelsdorf Ragshaft on July 22, 2008 at 1:57 PM
This is Barack HUSSEIN Obama’s (PBUH)(SAW)(SWT) brain……Bis’mallah Ar Rahman wa Ar Raheem…Mohammed Rasululallah…..
This is Obama’s brain on drugs…………the surge worked solely because of me, and I’ve just finished negotiating directly with PM Maliki the immediate withdraw of all US forces in Iraq, I’ve finally figured out Afghanistan is a problem on my first visit there ever, I’ve solved world hunger and poverty before lunch this morning, and for my next miracle, this afternoon, my worshippers are going to carry me down to the beach at lowtide in my throne so I can…….
Dale in Atlanta on July 22, 2008 at 1:58 PM
The US has to negotiate a status of forces agreement with Iraq concerning our continued presence/bases, etc. If you don’t want any US presence in Iraq, say so. If the military believes a ground presence in Iraq will help protect our interests in the middle-east, curtail Iran, and protect the oil lanes, I’m all for it. The exact details of how that happens has to be worked out btwn. the two gov’ts.
But Maliki negotiating in advance with Obama hurts US interests, as Obama is the lackey saying “yes” to Maliki.
Your Bush/Diem analogy fails.
JiangxiDad on July 22, 2008 at 1:58 PM
Is that Che in the background of that shot?
Big S on July 22, 2008 at 2:00 PM
Doesn’t Tony Rezko have some ME lineage? George Soros is Hungarian and La Raza is Hispanic. Barry’s cousin is Kenyan. He’s made a trip or two over there and they love him. I’d say he’s got all the street creds he needs on foreign policy.
a capella on July 22, 2008 at 2:08 PM
uh….uh……uh…………uh……..
drjohn on July 22, 2008 at 2:09 PM
Heaven sakes! I forgot BLT and it’s Afrocentric philosophy, so he’s also covered on that score.
a capella on July 22, 2008 at 2:11 PM
As I’ve said, Maliki wants a combination of Obama’s and McCain’s plans. He wants to set Obama’s time frame as a goal for withdrawal, while at the same time allowing for conditions on the ground to dictate whether or not that goal can be followed through.
Seixon on July 22, 2008 at 2:11 PM
I would hope that we could bring them all home. I would hope that we would probably leave some military advisers, as we have in other countries, to help them with their training and equipment and that kind of stuff.
- John McCain
I not only think we could get along without it, but I think one of our big problems has been the fact that many Iraqis resent American military presence. And I don’t pretend to know exactly Iraqi public opinion. But as soon as we can reduce our visibility as much as possible, the better I think it is going to be.
- John McCain
November, 2007 -
Charlie Rose: Do you think that this - Korea, South Korea is an analogy of where Iraq might be.
John McCain: I don’t think so.
Charlie Rose: Even if there are no casualties?
John McCain: No, but I can see an American presence for a while. But eventually I think because of the nature of the society in Iraq and the religious aspects of it that America eventually withdraws.
I am sure that Maliki goes to bed every night hoping you are right.
MB4 on July 22, 2008 at 2:18 PM
Ah, yes, all that is true, and of course it’s a huge resume’ enhancer that he lived in Indonesia while in Elementary School, and had a roommate from Pakistan while at Columbia. But street creds are like stick ball and do not explain his claim that he’s in the major leagues now, and has been for the past 7 years.
Buy Danish on July 22, 2008 at 2:23 PM
So in essence, regardless of how hard the media tried to spin Maliki’s comments and to translate the various translations to appear to be supporting of Obama’s timetable of 16 months, Maliki’s position has not changed.
Texas Gal on July 22, 2008 at 2:43 PM
Could be, could also be his attempt to sound thoughtful. I wish I had the time to plot his ahs and uhs to see what parts of speech with which he most frequently associates them. Could be indicative of discomfort with specifics. Frank Luntz oughta have someone research this.
His speech is affected. He is a poor speaker. All of this talk about his great oratorical skill is a case of the emperor’s new clothes.
Akzed on July 22, 2008 at 2:44 PM
He did everything he could not to say the Petraes wants the flexibility to WIN.
ArmyAunt on July 22, 2008 at 2:46 PM
Y’all are cracking me up!!
;)
Texas Gal on July 22, 2008 at 2:52 PM
Obama could be overstepping the scope of his employment as a US Senator. I wonder if he has ever read the Logan Act.
He is not the President or the Sec of State nor acting on their behalf.
If he is fact finding he needs to leave his Campaign Agenda out of discussion. As he has no qualifications in Diplomacy or the Military, he needs st STFU and listen to those who have them. Lets start with Gen. Petraeus. His amateur hour merry band of 300 advisors that are not currently employed by the State Department should STFU as well.
As he never held hearings or meetings on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he has a rather steep learning curve ahead. His on the job training status is not something that flushes out his empty resume.
The cure for ignorance is information. There is no cure for arrogance or outright stupidity. He suffers greatly from both.
old trooper on July 22, 2008 at 2:54 PM
And what’s that Barack? Win? Is there a better path to victory than ensuring we don’t draw down too hastily…?
Well, this dust-up with Patraeus at least gives Obama’s far Left supporters something to cling to.
CliffHanger on July 22, 2008 at 2:59 PM
Hey, if you think we’re funny, you should hear Barry doing his comedy routine:
Buy Danish on July 22, 2008 at 3:00 PM
Don’t really understand your answer. My point is that Maliki has to negotiate an agreement that is in his best interests–as he should. We too must do the same thing. But Maliki just gave Obama a big wet kiss with the 16 month comment, and now Obama owes him. That is no way for the US to be entering negotiations–by owning the other side.
That is what Obama has done. He sold out our best interests in return for Maliki’s endorsement. And somehow you think Bush is doing something wrong here?
JiangxiDad on July 22, 2008 at 3:07 PM
That should be “by owing the other side.
JiangxiDad on July 22, 2008 at 3:08 PM
I guess it depends on what the definition of timeline is. Obama sounds like Bill Clinton here. Maybe yes, maybe no.
I think Maliki wants to be able to go to his people and promise them that their government will eventually be able to stand on its own…at the same time, he does not want to be the head of a failed regime. Tightrope.
Terrye on July 22, 2008 at 3:17 PM
thirteen28: Obama is trying to have it both ways.
thirteen28 on July 22, 2008 at 3:18 PM
Jiang:
I don’t think Obama got Maliki’s endorsement here. They did not even discuss the timeline at their meeting. At least that is what the press release said.
Maliki signed on to the times horizon plan with Bush just a couple of weeks ago. He is not denouncing that plan in anyway so far as I know.
Terrye on July 22, 2008 at 3:19 PM
I mean come on, all Maliki said is he would like for troops to be able to leave in 16 months, well wouldn’t we all? But he wants some flexibility too, so that means he does not want those troops out in 16 months if it means his head ends up on a pike in a coup. Or something like that.
Terrye on July 22, 2008 at 3:21 PM
And keep in mind, Maliki will have to deal with the next president no matter who he is. And the Democrats have been promising to cut his country off for some time. Maybe he feels like he can not afford to alienate Obama. After all, if the American people actually vote this vain silly man into the White House, Maliki will not be able to do anything but go along with his plans.
Terrye on July 22, 2008 at 3:23 PM
He was under age 10 during the 4 years he lived in Indonesia (with his American mother who hated America — just not enough to turn down the American welfare checks that supported her and little Barry O). He didn’t have any meaningful contact with his family in impoverished small villages in Africa until he was an adult and made a trip to Kenya to meet them. But these long ago and oh-so-brief interactions somehow make him an expert on foreign peoples?
What an arrogant tool this guy is. Has anyone this unqualified to be President ever been this close to being elected?
BTW, since Barry’s a multi-millionaire now, shouldn’t he be kicking in some $$ to the “family” back in Kenya, so that they don’t have to continue living in such “impoverished” conditions? I mean, since they’re so close and all, it seems like the least he could do.
AZCoyote on July 22, 2008 at 3:37 PM
And after all Bush has done for Maliki. The damn ingrate. But then Bush did say that Iraq was a sovereign nation and Maliki was it’s duly elected leader and that he wanted them to stand up so that we could stand down.
I really doubt that Obama thought that Maliki would “endorse” him. Bush and McCain apparently never saw it coming. They would have had their spin worked out better up front if they had. Of course, McCain in particular doesn’t seem to see much coming at all these days. Is Obama that much smarter than them?
The American people will speak this November as to the matter of what they think is in our best interests.
MB4 on July 22, 2008 at 3:40 PM
Hmmm… who to listen to… the general? Or the lawyer-cum-politician? It’s a tough one.
Spolitics on July 22, 2008 at 3:43 PM
I think that Bush (and McCain?) is trying to have it both ways with his “time horizons” mumbo jumbo.
MB4 on July 22, 2008 at 3:43 PM
Hmmm… come this November or January… if you can channel the dead, you may want to ask Truman and MacArthur about that.
MB4 on July 22, 2008 at 3:49 PM
It is not mumbo jumbo. It is obvious, when conditions improve we pull back. It will happen anyway. But by putting a specific date on it you just ask for disaster. What happens if they can not meet the date, then comes the flexibility crap. Withdrawal with flexibility based on conditions is time horizons.
Terrye on July 22, 2008 at 4:15 PM
You would never make it in the car repair business.
MB4 on July 22, 2008 at 6:06 PM
MB4:
Who said I was a mechanic?
Besides, when Obama himself says we do not want to be rigid and when Maliki makes a point of saying he likes the idea but wants some flexibility and changes if necessary…it seems neither of them is really even serious about this. They just think it sounds good to the voters.
Meanwhile the grownups will have to deal with the realities.
Terrye on July 22, 2008 at 7:04 PM
I think it was in another video somewhere, but when I heard Barry O say (paraphrasing) “Petraeus may be the Commander on the ground and have his own ideas, but I will be the Commander in Chief, so I will be making the decisions.”
After having read Yon’s and Luttrell’s books, I just have to tell you, Barry, who the f&*# do you think is smart? You or Gen. David Petraeus? You’re a tool.
MsUnderestimated on July 22, 2008 at 7:53 PM
I just have to
tellask you, Barry, who the f&*# do you think issmartsmarter? You or Gen. David Petraeus?MsUnderestimated on July 22, 2008 at 7:54 PM