Is Obama a socialist?
posted at 11:44 am on July 20, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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This seems to be the question of the weekend, with e-mails a-plenty arriving with links to Jim Geraghty, Worldwide Standard, and the Kansas City Star. About the best that can be said was said, in fact, by John McCain: ““I don’t know. All I know is his voting record, and that’s what people usually judge their elected representatives by.” His other statement, that Obama’s voting record is “more to the left than the announced socialist in the United States Senate, Bernie Sanders of Vermont,” is unfortunately not terribly accurate.
National Journal made headlines earlier by declaring Barack Obama the most liberal Senator in 2007 — the basis for McCain’s claim. However, that calculation came from a limited number of bills considered by NJ, 99 in total, a significant sample but not comprehensive. Further, as NJ states, they picked their sample specifically to find differences between the candidates, not for overall voting patterns.
Instead, look at the Poole reports. Dr. Keith Poole compiles an index of roll-call votes for the House and Senate that have better than 0.5% opposition in each year, which in the Senate only excludes unanimous votes. In 2007, the sample was 388 votes, far larger than NJ’s 99. The index shows how often each member votes with their own party as a measure of partisan and ideological leaning. For 2007, that put Barack Obama as the 11th most liberal Senator, well behind Sanders at 3rd. (Russ Feingold and Chris Dodd finished 1-2.) That actually makes him more liberal in the 110th than he was in his freshman session in the 109th, where he finished 21st, much closer to the center of his caucus.
In 2007, McCain was the eighth-most conservative Senator, and in 2005-6, he was the second most conservative Senator, behind only Jon Kyl.
John McCormack then quotes this passage from Obama’s memoir, Dreams from My Father, in which Obama the college student attends socialist rallies:
In search of some inspiration, I went to hear Kwame Toure, formerly Stokely Carmichael of SNCC and Black Power fame, speak at Columbia. At the entrance to the auditorium, two women, one black, one Asian, were selling Marxist literature and arguing with each other about Trotsky’s place in history. Inside, Toure was proposing a program to establish ties between Africa and Harlem that would circumvent white capitalist imperialism. At the end of his remarks, a thin young woman with glasses asked if such a program was practical given the state of African economies and the immediate needs facing black Americans. Toure cut her off midsentence. “It’s only the brainwashing that you’ve received that makes it impractical, sister,” he said. His eyes glowed inward as he spoke, the eyes of a madman or a saint. The woman remained standing for several minutes while she was upbraided for her bourgeois attitudes. People began to file out. Outside the auditorium, the two Marxists were now shouting at the top of their lungs.
“Stalinist pig!”
“Reformist bitch!”
It was like a bad dream. I wandered down Broadway, imagining myself standing on the edge of the Lincoln Memorial and looking out over an empty pavilion, debris scattering in the wind. The movement had died years ago, shattered into a thousand fragments. Every path to change was well-trodden, every strategy exhausted. And with each defeat, even those with the best intentions could end up further and further removed from the struggles of those they purported to serve.
McCormack interprets this as Obama wanting to bring unity to the socialist movement, but that’s a real stretch. On its face, the passage acknowledges the death of the movemen; in tone, it resounds with exasperation. Maybe Obama pined for its renewal, but this passage doesn’t do anything to prove that. College students attend lots of rallies and say pretty stupid things, but life experience usually wrings the silliness out of them. If we have to go back this far to find “proof” of Obama’s socialism, than I’d say the effort has already proven itself worthless.
However, that’s not to say that Obama doesn’t believe in the Leftist principles of top-down statist control and redistributionism. One only need to consider his policies on capital-gains taxes, new federal spending, and massive expansion of regulatory and bureaucratic management to understand that much about him. Obama may not be a Bernie Sanders Socialist, but his proposals rely heavily on the same philosophy. Rather than concern ourselves about a couple of college rallies, let’s focus on Barack Obama’s current rallies and the policies he declares at them. That’s enough.
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Don’t flail on the moderator, the moderator is our friend, and has never blocked anything I have said. As long as you don’t do the George Carlin seven here you will be o.k.
JonRoss on July 20, 2008 at 6:38 PM
I think his socialist leanings are the product of grifting rather than being grounded in any philosophy; other than Barak first. Here is a guy who’s never had an actual job, always been provided for and is not scholarly, despite an Ivy League education. Socialism is only good for those at the top and that is the social position he prefers.
Beto Ochoa on July 20, 2008 at 6:56 PM
Half the HA commenters are moles.
Alphie is too busy watching who uses porta-potties near is suburban home to actually read.
I have the same reaction.
TheBigOldDog on July 20, 2008 at 6:57 PM
Certainly Obama does not favor capitalism, when you consider his ad specifically puts down a job on Wall Street in favor of a job as a neighborhood organizer, as if the latter would create more value for society. My guess is that being a neighborhood organizer is one stop above hanging out on the corner with the guys. At least on Wall Street you’d be helping to create jobs, which Obama simply doens’t get.
Is there a problem for which Obama does not favor a big government solution? While Obama may not be a socialist who wants his programs enforced at the point of a bayonet, he’s more a nanny state socialist who wants the gummint to be Big Mamma to us all, making us do all the stuff it thinks we should be doing but don’t or won’t. Obama is kinduva smiley-face socialist who doesn’t herd you into gulags but rather enforces policies that erode the business environment and defense of America by degrees.
Tantor on July 20, 2008 at 7:10 PM
I wouldn’t be surprised at all to find out if the democrats weren’t currently conducting their own ‘operation chaos’ against conservative websites in order to foment enough hatred of McCain by mentioning every single negative quality that is not desirable in a candidate in the hopes that enough reasonable conservatives will be turned into not supporting McCain while all of their voters are going to be turning out for Obama in droves. Anyone on the internet can claim to be anyone, and nothing prevents a democrat from posing as a conservative using the ‘you know, McCain is not as conservative as he should be’ line in order to help get Obama elected. I would say about a dozen.
And of course we do have some f*king morons within our own party who have no grasp on reality.
wise_man on July 20, 2008 at 7:36 PM
Marxist- (def.)- A Socialist who means it.
hillbillyjim on July 20, 2008 at 7:46 PM
He doesn’t appeal that much to me, but Obama, the empty canvas/tableau, with zero experience, with socialist/Marxist leanings, and an anarchyst wife, scares me for the rest of the country. I don’t worry much about myself, because I don’t have to. I worry for the next generations. You don’t see it but it is incredibly alarming. I still have faith that the American electorate is somewhat sane and not suicidal.
Entelechy on July 20, 2008 at 7:47 PM
Entelechy, your withering wit is wicked.
Dayum!
hillbillyjim on July 20, 2008 at 7:48 PM
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=5152
Don’t forget about this.
Last is First on July 20, 2008 at 8:28 PM
A socialist, a marxist and a fascist.
ahem on July 20, 2008 at 9:13 PM
Um…I think Marx wasn’t so much a socialist, as a communist with a special type of communism in mind. So, you can fall away from Marxism a long way and still be a socialist, Ed. I think.
Sweden is a socialist country, and various aspects of socialism drive several economies in the EU, which is to say State control of major economic functions – transportation, medicine, social welfare.
So, Obama may have found the Stokely Carmichael speech disappointing, but that only means he found some aspect of Marxism a disappointment. How does that disprove his otherwise obviously socialist philosophy. Yes, obvious – every issue I can recall his position on involves giving a greater control to the State or Federal government, or in favor of greater regulation, not less.
Obama is, indeed, a socialist.
Jaibones on July 20, 2008 at 9:22 PM
Besides, Ed. I was a pretty liberal/brainwashed college student, at least for a time. I never went to hear Marxist racists speak.
What on earth makes you think that this is commonplace?
Jaibones on July 20, 2008 at 9:23 PM
Yeah, that was a surprise to me, too, and I am supporting the guy. What about MadCon and the rest of the McDS crowd? Who, exactly, do they want to vote for?
Jaibones on July 20, 2008 at 9:26 PM
Holy crap! Danger, danger, Will Robinson!
I thought that abomination died in the House last year! That bill is all the proof one needs that Obama is a socialist in favor of global Marxism, and that he has plenty of support in the Dem Congress.
Please, please, people — get over your fear and hatred of McCain and do all you can to keep Obama out of the White House!
aero on July 20, 2008 at 9:30 PM
A Communist is merely a Socialist with a gun.
OldEnglish on July 20, 2008 at 9:32 PM
Well, you see there was this thing called the republican primary. After the republican primary has run its course, the next part of the election has revealed itself. Whats going to happen now, alphie, is that we all get a choice between Barack Obama and John McCain.
You get one vote.
The person with the most votes in each state gets that states electoral votes, and then either Obama or McCain will win according to the total number of electoral votes that is higher. Most people here aren’t stupid enough to allow Obama to be the next president unless we can do something about it. Some people actually support McCain. A whole lot more don’t particularly like him. Like me. And others, myself included, are planning on voting for McCain more to keep Obama out of the whitehouse.
And then the other benefit of that decision is that we get a republican for another 4 years, and it pisses off the democrats for a grand total of twelve years.
Pretty sweet, huh?
wise_man on July 20, 2008 at 9:34 PM
I see the Democrat party as having become Marxist / Communist though I see Obama as more of a Shapeshifter / Totalitarian. He’s not selling a philosophy he’s selling an emotional state.
That’s why he changes his views on many things. It’s not what he believes it’s what he thinks will sell. He wears the Marxist to get support from the DNC leadership and free advertising from the old media networks. His true core probably is more like Revrum Wright and Michelle. Lots of anger and a means to avenge it once having obtained power. That’s why he and Jazzy Jack$on have their conflict. They’re competitors in an identical hustle though Jazzy realizes that Obambi is smoother at the swindle. Either will talk whatever game sells. At the moment Marxism sells to the DNC leadership.
Add to that the arrogance Obambi shares with dangerous Anthony Kennedy. Both are convinced both know what’s best for central control despite that pesky Constitution. It makes them more oligarchs than anything else. The goal is central control and central authority, for them. Not necessarily Communism in the theoretical sense but Communism in the Brezhnev / Kruschev totalitarian sense once the marketing tools are no longer needed.
viking01 on July 20, 2008 at 9:39 PM
Ooh, alphie, you sobered up by accident. Better hit the bottle again.
Jaibones on July 20, 2008 at 9:43 PM
You should have gotten nuked for “too crazy” or maybe just “too stupid”. Someone ban this nitwit, he’s making the sane conservatives look crazy with this nutty Muslim crap.
Jaibones on July 20, 2008 at 9:46 PM
It’s probably not so much the bottle he hits as the bottle that hit him.
viking01 on July 20, 2008 at 9:48 PM
Ed, shame on you for posting this crap on a Sunday, when you’re (properly) off work, and unable to defend yourself.
Jaibones on July 20, 2008 at 9:49 PM
While you’re considering the righteousness of banning Dale, the Really Big Target of the New Yorker cover, consider banning alphie, who has never made a constructive comment at HotAir, but trolls over here from DU to pour gasoline on fires. She is just a troll.
Jaibones on July 20, 2008 at 9:52 PM
Spot on summary.
Bill Ayers’s brand of communism as is the type favored by his acolytes is Maoism.
onlineanalyst on July 20, 2008 at 9:56 PM
wise_man on July 20, 2008 at 7:36 PM
I agree with your statement about a left wing “operation chaos.” It has occurred to me in reading posts on hotair.com and on townhall.com.
Also, you are writing good posts. Just thought you should know that your posts are appreciated.
Phil Byler on July 20, 2008 at 10:02 PM
(My post of 9:48 PM meaning Alphie, of course)
viking01 on July 20, 2008 at 10:02 PM
You should have gotten nuked for “too crazy” or maybe just “too stupid”. Someone ban this nitwit, he’s making the sane conservatives look crazy with this nutty Muslim crap.
Jaibones on July 20, 2008 at 9:46 PM
Clearly not able to assimliate the evidence then, I take it?? That’s okay, I understand it takes intelligence to be able to read all the sources, and understand them; it’s okay, I don’t hold it against you.
Ed, shame on you for posting this crap on a Sunday, when you’re (properly) off work, and unable to defend yourself.
Jaibones on July 20, 2008 at 9:49 PM
Ah, for the record, I never “attacked” Ed at all; i asked as question, the post was delayed in the que for a long time; end of story.
It was posted, and that’s it. I never “attacked” Ed, never insulted him, never did anything of any sort.
I asked a simple question, and it was later resolved.
You, on the other hand, are a different story; happy to atatck you, since you clearly are a Buffoon.
If you can read any one of the sources that Posted, and Disprove them, I’ll be happy to read your rebuttal!
If not, then kindy refrain from making baselss charges!
Dale in Atlanta on July 20, 2008 at 10:09 PM
Dale in Atlanta: You have a valid roundup of facts with links. The delay was probably caused by there being so many links. Filters sometimes construe multiple links as spam.
I always value what you offer as commentary, Jaibones. Maybe you should cut Dale some slack.
Obama truly is a danger to our liberties, our economy, and our national security. He makes it clear that he sees the presidency as a means to effect social engineering through State Central Planning.
onlineanalyst on July 20, 2008 at 10:43 PM
Dale in Atlanta: You have a valid roundup of facts with links. The delay was probably caused by there being so many links. Filters sometimes construe multiple links as spam.
I always value what you offer as commentary, Jaibones. Maybe you should cut Dale some slack.
Online thank you, yes, unfortunately I didn’t figure out until too late, that a plethora of Hyperlinks in a post may cause a delay in it coming out of the possible spam que.
As for “jailbones”, they will say what they say, frankly, I’ll just ignore him.
But, again for the record, since it took me 3 years worth of research, to put those links together, I understandably was a little hyper when it didn’t post.
Capt Ed, in the past, has nuked a post or two of mine, because of Length!
I’m not attacking Capt Ed, nor the “moderator” for doing that, I’m not insulting them, or calling into doubt, their parentage, as a result; but it is a fact that it has happened in the past.
And, it is their “right” to do so, because it is THEIR Blog, I’m not even questioning that.
Once I assumed (incorretly) that it had been nuked because of length, I still wanted you all to see the orignal source material, hence my follow-up post.
No attack on Capt Ed, no insult, no questiong his or the moderator’s rights to do anything, just making sure I got the source material out; end of story.
It seems that is not good enough for some people though; they have nothing else to add of substance, so they have to attack the messnger.
As for “jailbones”; he apparently doesn’t like the “message”.
Tough luck!
Read the Source Material; then take it up with: American Thinker, Ed Lasky, The Chicago Tribune, Debbie Schlossel, the Wikipedia, Muamar Qadhaffi, the Quran, the Israeli Insider; Obama’s own family members, Obama’s own schoolmates in Hawaii & Indonesia, Obama’s own words in his two works of Fiction, his so called “Autobiographies”; Daniel Pipes!
Those ARE the sources, so if “jailbones” thinks he has the stones and the intellect to debate and rebut all those sources, then have at it; I’ll be happy to sit back and watch!
Dale in Atlanta on July 20, 2008 at 10:55 PM
Nice list Dale….I have some interesting reading ahead….some I’ve already but I’m going to read them all.
As for his socialist leanings …no brainer.
jerrytbg on July 20, 2008 at 11:11 PM
jerrytbg: I have TWICE the source material, I just couldn’t work more into the post; I was really afraid it wouldn’t make it then!
Dale in Atlanta on July 20, 2008 at 11:20 PM
Too bad you don’t have your own web site…ummm
jerrytbg on July 20, 2008 at 11:22 PM
Too bad you don’t have your own web site…ummm
jerrytbg on July 20, 2008 at 11:22 PM
Oh man, don’t start that again; that’s what everyone tells me, after I make a post like this.
I fell for that once; and joined up with a guy on a Blog, it lasted a month or two, and the guy just literally disappeared into thin air, and the Blog was toast.
No, I do not have the time, nor inclination to own my own Blog, and manage it full time.
I just literally do not know how people such as Capt Ed, AJ Strata (and he works fulltime too); Atlas Shrugs, and all those many others, do this fulltime.
Couldn’t do it; really couldn’t; I’m content to insert my 2 cents where I can, and leave it at that.
Dale in Atlanta on July 20, 2008 at 11:26 PM
Understood… I thought to do the same related to my work…I don’t know how they do either.
jerrytbg on July 20, 2008 at 11:31 PM
Dale, the comment to Ed had nothing to do with your post, but Ed’s suggestion that there is no evidence to support labeling Obama a socialist.
As for my dismissal of your ridiculous and ridiculously long and crazy post, no, I have not wasted the time required to read it all or follow all of the links. After linking on my first try to “MichNews”, I thought better of going further.
Jaibones on July 21, 2008 at 12:29 AM
As for my dismissal of your ridiculous and ridiculously long and crazy post, no, I have not wasted the time required to read it all or follow all of the links. After linking on my first try to “MichNews”, I thought better of going further.
Jaibones on July 21, 2008 at 12:29 AM
Your post says all about you, and nothing about me; your loss, but then again, I’m not surprised, considering your limited attention span.
Dale in Atlanta on July 21, 2008 at 12:58 AM
Dale, seriously. This is how this is going to go: either you will realize that comments like your 31 link opus do not fit the program here and will conform – in which case you will thank me for helping you understand something that nearly everyone else understands immediately but you have failed to grasp – or you will get banned for attempting to create your own blog inside HotAir, in which case you will probably blame Obama and the Muslims for taqiyeh, or some such.
Either way, hope you enjoyed your big day in the sun.
Jaibones on July 21, 2008 at 8:58 AM
Yes. Next.
Spanglemaker on July 21, 2008 at 9:10 AM
Dale, seriously. This is how this is going to go: either you will realize that comments like your 31 link opus do not fit the program here and will conform – in which case you will thank me for helping you understand something that nearly everyone else understands immediately but you have failed to grasp – or you will get banned for attempting to create your own blog inside HotAir, in which case you will probably blame Obama and the Muslims for taqiyeh, or some such.
Either way, hope you enjoyed your big day in the sun.
Jaibones on July 21, 2008 at 8:58 AM
Son, Seriously, let me help YOU understand:
I’m amazed to find out that you are speaking for Capt Ed, and Hot Air!
Me, I have no such presumption!
I’ve “known” Capt Ed for about 2 years+, and he “knowns” me, more than your average Poster, I can say.
Capt Ed has never threatened to ban me, for any reason, and I imagine you have to transgress quite strongly, to earn that distinction.
As I’ve said, on one or two occasions, I’ve had a Long post not make it past the que, but that is understandable, and I’ve got no qualms about it.
I do find it interesting, that your life so boring, and your attention span and knowledge so limited, that you apparantely think it is your duty however, to attempt to lead some “banning movement”, because of one post of mine.
I would suggest your life is fairly empty, if that is the case.
However Son, if that’s become your mission in life, because your torqued off because I’ve shown you to be incapable of understanding the message and the source material, then not only power to you, but frankly, “have at it!”
As for me attempting to create my own Blog, within HotAir, unfortunately, that is something that exists only within the fevered imaginations of that fetid swamp you call a mind; but nice delusion nonetheless!
As for this comment:
Either way, hope you enjoyed your big day in the sun.
My sincerest medical advice, Son, is that only one of us is suffering from Heat Stroke, and it ain’t me! My post brought me neither unwanted attention, nor enjoyment, nor was it intended as such; it was merely a way to share 3 years of reseach on my part, with interested parties on the relevant topic.
Since you are obviously NOT ONE of those, them my polite suggestion is: GET OVER IT!
Finally, Son, let me tell you how it is:
“for taqiyeh”
As someone who has spent 31 years living, working, studying Arabs/Muslims/Islam, for the civilian world, as well as the Military as well as “other”, who went to University there and learned the language; I can discern rapidly when somone has the capability to understand the topic at hand.
Obviously, “Taqiyah”, is a topic that is beyond you, as well as the information I imparted.
So, telling you how it is going to be, my advice is you pass on that which you have no capability to comprehend!
How’s that grab you Son?
Dale in Atlanta on July 21, 2008 at 9:56 AM
Actually, Obama is a Marxist and socialism in an integral part of his political orientation. Be very careful people, if you elect this guy you’ll get “change” all right but it won’t be what you expected.
rplat on July 21, 2008 at 10:57 AM
With his dives toward the center, he can best be described as a socia-list.
Dr. Charles G. Waugh on July 21, 2008 at 2:19 PM
Socialist/Communist/Marxist same difference.
Chakra Hammer on July 21, 2008 at 6:07 PM
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