U.S. nuke summit with Iran accomplishes jack; Updated
posted at 5:48 pm on July 19, 2008 by Allahpundit
Actually, that’s not true. It achieved the very important breakthrough of them telling us to our face that they’re not going to suspend enrichment.
The presence of [Undersecretary of State William] Burns had led to hopes of compromise on a formula under which Iran would agree to stop expanding its enrichment activities…
But doubt was cast over the value of talks less then an hour after they started, when Keyvan Imani, a member of the Iranian delegation, appeared to indicate that Tehran was not prepared to budge on enrichment.
“Suspension — there is no chance for that,” he told reporters gathered in the courtyard of Geneva’s ornate City Hall, the venue of the negotiations.
There also appeared to be little progress inside the talks.
Just in case the point about suspension being off the table was unclear, another Iranian official reiterated it to Reuters, as did lead Iranian nuclear negotiator Saeed Jalili, as have various other Iranian officials recently. The west’s reply, per EU negotiator Javier Solana: Let’s give them more time. Another two weeks, specifically, in the idle hope that they’ll respond to the incentives offer they conspicuously avoided responding to earlier this month because … it called for them to suspend enrichment. Does everyone grasp the absurdity here? Iran’s behaving as though enrichment is merely one of several issues the west is interested in as part of some comprehensive detente between the two sides, in which case the impasse on this point shouldn’t prevent the negotiations from going forward. But that’s idiotic; enrichment is all we’re interested in. Any “grand bargain” that’s in the offing is wholly contingent (let’s hope) on suspension of their nuclear program. Until they decide there’s some carrot we can offer them to get them to do that, there’s literally nothing to talk about. Yet here we go again with another meeting in two weeks, which gives Iran another little breather in building a weapon and gives us … what, exactly?
By way of companion reading, the left has been touting polls lately noting that Jews vastly prefer Obama to the GOP, especially on foreign policy. To which Politico replies: Not all do. Israel is quite possibly the only nation on earth right now where Maverick leads in the polls, and almost certainly the only one where he leads by anything like a 20-point margin. I wonder why.
Update: To be clear, the point here isn’t that the meeting is a failure because it failed to singlehandedly resolve the Iranian nuclear crisis. The point is that it accomplished absolutely nothing, not even a conciliatory rhetorical gesture by Iran. In the spirit of compromise, they could have simply declined comment when reporters asked them about suspending enrichment; instead they went out of their way, via three different officials, to reject the only U.S. demand, and per the blockquote they didn’t even wait until the meeting was over to do it. It’s a rhetorical middle finger.










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Since Burns is so close to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait (and now probably has time on his hands), maybe he could go visit the sheikhs to bow and scrape a little to get them to please, pleeeeze pump more oil. We could call the whole trip the America Humiliated Tour ’08.
Way to go, stripey pants crowd!
Cicero43 on July 19, 2008 at 5:53 PM
I’m sure someone arched an eyebrow at them.
BL@KBIRD on July 19, 2008 at 5:55 PM
How much money is being wasted on these talks? Flying all these diplomats around; hotel stays; food; butler and driver services? That money is depriving Obama’s children of an education.
Riposte on July 19, 2008 at 5:56 PM
There is no benefit to Iran giving up enrichment that surpasses the benefit they will receive if they continue it.
They want a nuclear weapon as it will enhance their regional power and influence much more than normalized relations with the US.
After all, normal relations with the US will eventually lead to their removal from power. “Democracy, whiskey, sexy” as they say.
They may have a 14th century view of the world but they aren’t stupid.
SteveMG on July 19, 2008 at 5:58 PM
Why is anybody worried about this? We all know the Iranians will agree to stop enriching as soon as they can have their promised face-to-face with the magical Barry O. He’ll give them his special smile, and explain to them in his sonorous tones why they need to stop, and they’ll fall at his feet, exclaiming “Yes, yes Barry, we understand now. The evil Bush people just never explained it to us in ways that we could understand before. We’ll do whatever you ask, O Holy One.”
AZCoyote on July 19, 2008 at 5:59 PM
Exactly. He’s the one that “we’ve been waiting for”. Or is that the 12th imam? (does that distinction even matter if Israel gets the shaft, mission accomplished either way)
Spirit of 1776 on July 19, 2008 at 6:03 PM
This is funny as heck. Did someone arrange this to show the Messiah that talks with Iran accomplish bupkes?
Rove, you magnificent b……. well, you all know where I’m going with this.
mjk on July 19, 2008 at 6:04 PM
(*kaf*hac*)
Look out, because I have a feeling that boulder is headed to the bottom of the hill.
I, for one, won’t be throwing insults at Israel when she gives us the finger and melts Qom.
Limerick on July 19, 2008 at 6:04 PM
Yep, because nothing says “genius” like Holocaust denying and all but painting a target for the IAF to hit.
They’re all frigging Doogie Howsers over in Tehran. Genius, I tells ya.
mjk on July 19, 2008 at 6:09 PM
Now they told us to our face to f…off.
How many times do we need to hear it before we bomb,bomb,bomb,….. bomb,bomb…. Iran!
McMaverick was right on this one too. Hey the guys a prophet.
Do prophets trump Messiahs?
dhunter on July 19, 2008 at 6:11 PM
It wasn’t supposed to accomplish anything.
baldilocks on July 19, 2008 at 6:11 PM
Well, it sure looks like they got us in a corner.
We attack their facilities and the Middle East goes up in flames. Iraq is thrown into disarray, oil prices double, western economies teeter if not go into full scale deep recessions.
SteveMG on July 19, 2008 at 6:12 PM
No.
VolMagic on July 19, 2008 at 6:13 PM
None of which would happen if the Euro-fighters were on our wing! But they won’t be. Not a single one of them, so yeah we have to decided if we can live through a depression or if we can live through a Glow-in-the-dark Mullah.
Limerick on July 19, 2008 at 6:15 PM
Their only real defense is our self-restraint. Sad, on both sides.
progressoverpeace on July 19, 2008 at 6:17 PM
Don’t you know he’s the Obamahdi?
This is exactly why you don’t talk to them. It gives them the only thing they want from us-more time, and gives us absolutely nothing. Does anyone think this will help internationally with the argument “well, we tried to talk to them…”? The international community would be passing UNSC resolution number twenty-something against Saddam and still urging we negotiate and maintain the illusion of “containment”.
trubble on July 19, 2008 at 6:17 PM
Absolutely, underscore that point. Feckless, completely feckless.
Putin and the Chinese are playing their little power games too. Although we shouldn’t be surprised (I’m not).
SteveMG on July 19, 2008 at 6:19 PM
ROFLMAO.
And we all know what containing Saddam at $140/bbl would be like!
progressoverpeace on July 19, 2008 at 6:21 PM
Yes, it’s almost like talking to a neocon about Iraq.
freevillage on July 19, 2008 at 6:21 PM
TYPICAL!!!!!!
canopfor on July 19, 2008 at 6:21 PM
Another two weeks? Has the “phony war” started?
After all, the so-called “Allies” figured Herr Hitler would stop his aggression if they gave him Czechoslovakia….
Aren’t the Euro-wimps at least concerned that the fallout from Iranian nuclear bombs will drift over their fat and happy lands?
MrScribbler on July 19, 2008 at 6:27 PM
What Iranian nuclear bombs?
freevillage on July 19, 2008 at 6:28 PM
Well, not in the way of getting concessions. It may have had something to do with prepping the field.
a capella on July 19, 2008 at 6:29 PM
Or to a communist about successful economic systems.
a capella on July 19, 2008 at 6:32 PM
I heard Condi Rice say the other day that there would be no change until they agreed to stop enriching uranium.
To be honest,I really don’t think anyone expected it to accomplish a lot. After all, if it were that easy we would have done something like this a long time ago.
But the price of oil dropped like a stone for a change and a lot of analysts are saying this meeting is part of the reason why.
Terrye on July 19, 2008 at 6:33 PM
Yup.
freevillage on July 19, 2008 at 6:33 PM
Haha. Awesome.
Spirit of 1776 on July 19, 2008 at 6:33 PM
Not sure I agree Allah.
There are other issues – notably assets siezed by the Iranians and frozen Iranian accounts in the west. Iran wants membership in the WTO.
We want Iran to stop meddling in Iraq and to play a constructive role in the region.
I don’t think a deal is possible with this present crew of Ahmadinejad and his Rev Guard cutthroats backed by Khamenei and his dreams of reborn Persian glory. But Khamenie is old and Ahmadinejad has to run next year. Inflation, unemployment are at heartbreaking levels and their minorities are ever more restive.
In short, they need us and the rest of the world to get off their backs. There are what passes for “pragmatists” who may – with the right inducements – be willing to endure very strict IAEA inspections of their enrichment activities. Right now, they are out of power, sniping at Ahmadinejad from the sidelines. But if things continue the way the are, there’s a chance the inner leadership will reach out for one of the reformers for president and drive the extreme conservatives from office.
The question you ask regarding time is the key. The latest is that they are having a hard time keeping their centrifuges running in sequence so they are producing about 1/3 the enriched uranium they should be producing with the number of machines they have up and running. No doubt they will get their act together eventually. In the meantime, they are still 18 months from having a nuclear device – a shorter time according to the Israelis. And that’s if they could get away with further enriching their stock of uranium to weapons grade levels.
Is there enough time to deal before the point of no return is crossed? Probably not.
rick moran on July 19, 2008 at 6:34 PM
You’re right. It’s not. A summit is a meeting between two heads of state.
As far as the meeting that took place, maybe it accomplished “jack” or maybe it did not. At the very least, the narrative that Iran would be immediately beat their centrifuges into plowshares if only we’d listen to them has been proved somewhat less than wholly concurrent with the truth.
Typhoon on July 19, 2008 at 6:35 PM
But you don’t understand. Allah’s criterion (as of this morning, I presume) is you try it once and if it hasn’t produced an immediate tectonic shift, you call the whole enterprise a failure.
Now, needless to say this logic doesn’t apply to Iraq. Why? Well… Uhm… Did you hear Jess Jackson thinks black people are GENETIC MUTANTS?
freevillage on July 19, 2008 at 6:38 PM
You believe that this effort is the only time the West and/or American Administrations have tried to reach accommodations with the Iranian regime?
Over several decades?
We have no prior history or track record with the Iranians?
SteveMG on July 19, 2008 at 6:59 PM
According to my detective work on the Anti-War Moonbat
sites,Nancy(i never did get the house cleaned up of Liberal
corruption)Pelosi,should have her “DIE IN”,which started at
4:00PM, “Don’t Attack Iran”
And thats all you need to know on the Liberals vision of a
nuclear armed Iran!
This has got to be brain numbed scary as h#ll,a “CLEAR AND
PRESENT DANGER” from Iran!
And remember AckMad DinnerJacket claims he needs the idiot to crawl out of the well,to get Irans show on the glowing
vapourizing road!
Think about this,you have a country,per adnaseum that wants
to vanqiush,eliminate,decimate,Israel off the face of the
world!
The same country,Iran, also needs to vapourize America,then
AckMan NutCase can pave the third attempt at the Prussian
caliphate!
Iran,who is slaved to Islam,wants the entire planet to be
Muslim,and purged of the not worthy’s,and that probably in-
cludes half of Islam itself,let alone the infedel west!
21ST weapon technology in the hands of a 3rd century mind–
set,religious extreme nutcases with nuclear weapons,who are
educated that Israel and America are Satan,and this is ham-
mered into the “Children” at birth!
Iran has two weeks to “Sh#t or get off the potty,so to speak!
BTW,its been 5 long years of this Iranian Kabuki,dance,
as Barney Franks would often say to Republicans,when he
had the gavel,”Your Time Is Up”!
canopfor on July 19, 2008 at 7:02 PM
Rick, you don’t think the possession of a nuclear weapon trumps those other concerns? Even for the pragmatists or “less radical” elements?
To be sure, as you pointed out they have major internal problems (economy, restless minorities). But a nuclear weapon allows them to be more aggressive in cementing their power internally.
SteveMG on July 19, 2008 at 7:03 PM
They’re smart and not suicidal.
Entelechy on July 19, 2008 at 7:04 PM
ooops,that Die In protest is on
Nancy front lawn,forgot to add
that part!
canopfor on July 19, 2008 at 7:14 PM
You’re right. It did actually accomplish something. Iran said, yet again, that nothing would stop their enrichment.
amerpundit on July 19, 2008 at 7:31 PM
Here are some Missile sites.
Strategic Air Command:
http://www.strategic-air-command.com/command/00-command-home.htm
Welcome to Missile Index:
http://missile.index.ne.jp/en/
canopfor on July 19, 2008 at 7:33 PM
Let’s not forget that Iran has to test their device. They can’t use without testing … paper tiger until they fire one off. Message to Tehran, don’t fire one off.
If they shoot one at Tel Aviv preemptively, and it’s a dud, what will Israel do? They have to test to be taken seriously.
That’s the line in the glass… your first test will be in Persia, your second test will be in Paradise.
shaken on July 19, 2008 at 7:39 PM
what will Israel do?
shaken on July 19,2008 at 7:39PM.
shaken: Maybe Israel,will launch the Samson Option?
And it would be awfully suicidal of Iran,
especially when their might be some Balistic
subs sitting at launch depth,24 tube,multiple
warhead merv’s targetting various points in Iran!
canopfor on July 19, 2008 at 7:47 PM
First atomic bomb, New Mexico, July 16, 1945
Second atomic bomb, Hiroshima, Aug 6, 1945.
One hell of a small window.
Limerick on July 19, 2008 at 7:51 PM
They might think that, but those centrifuges don’t turn without electricity. How deep did they bury their auxiliary generators, and how do they supply them with fuel?
rockhauler on July 19, 2008 at 8:07 PM
We have to go through the pretense of negotiation before we bomb the crap out of them.
docdave on July 19, 2008 at 8:10 PM
Exactly what I’ve been saying since all the whoa-is-me-we-can’t-hit-everything crowd started yapping.
Hit the access tunnels. Hit the airshafts. Hit the power grid (yes, Virginia, the generators have to vent their exhaust gases somewhere). Collapse the tunnels and you don’t have to worry about where they led.
Limerick on July 19, 2008 at 8:11 PM
What are the radicals that have hijacked Islam in Iran called?
BL@KBIRD on July 19, 2008 at 8:12 PM
If that’s their price then they can simply name it. If there’s *anything* they want in return for suspending enrichment, simply lay it on the table. They’re issuing flat never-ever-evers here.
Precisely wrong. Re-read the blockquote; it’s not just me who was hoping/expecting for something semi-meaningful to come out of this. No need for a tectonic shift, just some sort of small gesture of reconciliation. For example, how about a “no comment” when asked about suspending enrichment instead of extending a rhetorical middle finger in the form of asserting, via three separate people, that they absolutely refuse to do it? Good enough? But we didn’t even get that, did we?
Also, as SteveMG notes, you must have brass balls to suggest that nuclear negotiations with Iran, both through back-door channels and through European proxies, haven’t been going on already for a very, very, very, very long time.
Allahpundit on July 19, 2008 at 8:14 PM
It is just a matter of time before those Wild and Crazy Mullahs and their Fearless Grand Poohbah Ahmadineramadamadingdong drives some nuke tech past the point of exhaustion in their insane push for uranium enrichment and the poor schmuck winds up pulling the wrong switch on the wrong day at the wrong time.
Ten seconds later, you have a big smokey hole in the ground where Tehran used to be.
End of issue.
pilamaye on July 19, 2008 at 8:16 PM
.
Prophets can expose false messiahs.
.
Right_of_Attila on July 19, 2008 at 8:21 PM
Sorry, didn’t mean to imply anything original here.
I’ll blame it on consumption of highly sugared, highly caffeinated beverage, with a touch of Alzheimer’s.
I try to avoid endorsing the apocalypse, but frustration generally has me attempting to solve problems with a very large hammer.
The Iranians are going to poke the tiger one time too many.
rockhauler on July 19, 2008 at 8:28 PM
This situation with Iran,is no differenet,then all the
alarms going off, of 1935-1939,herr’ madman!
What are Irans capabilities,what is Irans intent?
This is the same historical run up to WW2,and only
a handful seen the light as to where the nazi leader
was going with his massive military biuldup!
And again,as in the WW2,Iran has made it crystal
clear as to what they want to do with the “Little
Satan” and Big(Great)Satan!
And again,what are Iran’s capabilites,what are their
intentions?
canopfor on July 19, 2008 at 8:32 PM
oh boy,thats different,not differnet,sorry!
canopfor on July 19, 2008 at 8:37 PM
Iran’s missiles can reach Israel easily. They can’t reach American soil. If Iran gets longer range missiles, we won’t be worried so much about “hope” or “change” anymore.
malan89 on July 19, 2008 at 8:37 PM
I’m sure if the western world would go ahead and destroy itself, Iran would be a little more open to suspending enrichment. Until then, not so much.
malan89 on July 19, 2008 at 8:39 PM
Maybe the United States and the Iranians should remember “drinking the chalice of poison” ……..
Seven Percent Solution on July 19, 2008 at 8:40 PM
No! I didn’t come up with it! I was just mouthing off because of the mamby-pamby world we live in. Sometimes I need to take two of my pills instead of one.
Limerick on July 19, 2008 at 8:43 PM
They don’t need missiles.
From HotAir headlines pointing to LA Times:
think car bomb with nukes and wings.
rockhauler on July 19, 2008 at 8:44 PM
If the world really wants to get the attention of Iran, then an announcement should be made that after X-date all foreign embassies and consulates are in danger and should be withdrawn from Iran. Then watch the Persians go crazy.
Remember also, that Iran is the country that fought to a standstill with Iraq and that later the U.S. took Iraq in a few weeks. Who then has the balance of power?
The Persians will only understand the threat of force. If we don’t threaten them, they’ll only continue with their silliness.
Special Forces Grunt on July 19, 2008 at 8:53 PM
Correct.
amerpundit on July 19, 2008 at 8:55 PM
Indeed. Once again. As they did when President Clinton publicly apologized for our support of the restoration of the Shah in the fifties and when Secretary Albright all but put a burka on (the opposite, I suppose, of showing some leg) when mentioning Iran. Et cetera, et cetera with the Germans and the French and so on.
But they won’t be called for it.
Instead, we’ll hear calls for a greater willingness to reach some sort of accommodation with them. Because for the negotiation-fetishists, a failure to reach an agreement is due to our not offering right the combination of incentives and not because our adversary is obstinate.
The Iranians know all this.
Besides, a better deal potentially awaits them from an Obama Administration.
They know that too.
Antediluvians? Yeah, but they’re not idiots.
SteveMG on July 19, 2008 at 8:58 PM
pilamaye on July 19, 2008 at 8:16 PM
I tend to agree. When I try to picture their first nuke test all my imagination can come up with is a larger variation of that vid where the jihadi’s RPG blows up in his face.
These guys aren’t Oppenheimer and Einstein. It’ll probably end up like the Nork’s test: so small that one has to ask if it was legit.
innominatus on July 19, 2008 at 8:58 PM
All this episode has accomplished is making the United States look weak, and the strengthening of the Mullah-ocracy’s domestic position.
hillbillyjim on July 19, 2008 at 9:02 PM
Ok, now we have tried every last thing anyone could ever possibly come up with in terms of talk.
Now its time for a different form of communication.
dogsoldier on July 19, 2008 at 9:05 PM
Man, freevillage really is a one-trick pony, isn’t he?
First rule of negotiation: have a means of leverage to support your position, and be willing to use it if necessary.
No leverage = no negotiation.
There is no such thing as “aggressive diplomacy” unless you are willing to stand by your alternative.
Wanderlust on July 19, 2008 at 9:06 PM
Füttern Sie den Troll nicht.
Limerick on July 19, 2008 at 9:08 PM
Imagine if the Iranians had undertaken this type of initiative (for want of a better phrase) and the Bush Administration had rebuffed it? I.e., flip the situation around.
You think he’d be as charitable?
SteveMG on July 19, 2008 at 9:16 PM
Nicely said. Let’s just drop the “…and carry a big stick” ’cause someone might get their eye poked out!
Spirit of 1776 on July 19, 2008 at 9:17 PM
More like a rhetorical “Bring it on, suckas”.
malan89 on July 19, 2008 at 9:20 PM
Getting a little tired of the “hurt me more” strategy we seem to keep using…
Grayson on July 19, 2008 at 9:22 PM
I think we probably got exactly what we expected.
This entire thing was reminiscent of Bush agreeing to go back to the UN a second time for a resolution to invade Iraq at the behest of Blair. And we all remember that failed and what followed. I got the feeling that Burns was going to attend the meeting at the behest of the EU and Russia and that was agreed to as long as he did not participate in any of the discussions, therefore maintaining our position. Yeah I know.. but I still think that’s why Burns was selected as an equal to the EU and Russian reps.
I wonder what is in this next round of sanctions? Is there an embargo on gasoline imports?
BTW, that rhetorical middle finger wasn’t limited to just us.
Texas Gal on July 19, 2008 at 9:23 PM
BBC is reporting that the US gave Iran a deadline of two weeks. It demands a freeze in enrichment for a freeze in more sanctions. A demarche and a date – it’s a good start.
NaCly dog on July 19, 2008 at 9:29 PM
I still have no idea how he’s a McCain supporter.
terryannonline on July 19, 2008 at 9:32 PM
I imagine it was also directed at domestic concerns/opinion as well.
Bush had a Republican Congress in 2002; no such luxury today.
Not to mention a 25% approval rating.
SteveMG on July 19, 2008 at 9:33 PM
Iran is a proven terrorist enabler, and supporter of those fighting against our troops in Iraq.
Our government needs to stick to the stated “never negotiate with terrorists” policy. Some behind-the-scenes talks are going to happen regardless, but they should remain just that.
This is an unnecessary humiliation for the Bush administration and for the United States. Any weakness we show will inevitably be to our detriment.
hillbillyjim on July 19, 2008 at 9:38 PM
Wrong. Allah, you’re missing the whole point of our presence at these talks and of our leaking the Israeli exercises off Greece and Bush’s constant repitition of the slogan “prefer diplomatic solution”. None of this is aimed at Iran. It’s all been aimed at Europe and China. They’re the ones who’ll find themselves gasping for economic relief should this go military and oil reaches $200 a barrel. They’re the ones dragging their feet on hard, punishing sanctions against Iran. This is all to assure the EU that we’ve done everything to avoid the really hard sanctions we’re asking them to adopt (which will actually require some sacrifice on the EU’s part) and to assure them the only realistic alternative to diplomacy is bombs. None of this is for Iran’s benefit. Iran isn’t the delusional party at the table.
The Apologist on July 19, 2008 at 9:51 PM
There never has been any hope of a negotiated settlement ironic but he threat of an obama presidency makes war more likely than less.
Nothing has changed the strategic calculus of any of the players therefore this ends one of two ways in the short to medium term and only one way in the long term.
short to medium term –
1. we accept Iranian nukes. (and US credibility as the guarantor of the international system is gone not to mention the strategic benefits of the Iraq and Afghan operations.)
2. we and/or the Israelis go to war to eliminate the nuke infrastructure and erode the regime’s guarantors such as the Revolutionary Guards et al.
long term -
war.
No way around it. Iranian nukes will guarantee the Islamic revolutionary government in perpetuity. Given their ideology and the strategic nature of the region it will be a matter of time before there is war. A big one.
elduende on July 19, 2008 at 10:03 PM
Oh that this were true. This would make some kind of sense if these talks were a ploy to lay the groundwork for some serious, meaningful action. Or possibly to dampen the response to an Israeli pre-emption??
Could it be that our favorite whipping-boy, Bush, actually has a plan?
The fact that it makes sense argues against the proposition.
hillbillyjim on July 19, 2008 at 10:08 PM
If for domestic consumption you mean American, I think that would only be the case if it demonstrates to the electorate that talking to Iran gets nada! I don’t think Bush gives one whit about his approval rating. Never has. Why should he start now?
I agree with:
This is about knocking some sense into the heads of the EU, China and Russia. They are going to have to cowboy up and prepare for what lies ahead. When gasoline imports are embargoed into Iran they are headed for a world of misery. Considering what oil prices are doing to us right now at least we can refine our own gasoline. Iran can’t to any capacity. The fools are too busy building a nuclear reactor instead of gasoline refineries.
Iran has threatened to close the Straits if the next round goes into effect. Let them try! That little scuffle is going to shoot up the price of oil and Europe knows that .. this is why they keep dragging out this next round. Burns was sent basically just to play our last diplomatic card.
And I feel this is why Bush has refused to release any oil from the Strategic Oil Reserve.
Texas Gal on July 19, 2008 at 10:15 PM
MAKE IRAN A *!CKING PARKING LOT, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, AND DO IT SOON!
D2Boston on July 19, 2008 at 10:40 PM
I think something that can not be measured is the Iranian People. There is growing unrest. They see what happened in Iraq. They want the same freedom, just dont want to pay the price of innocent deaths.
We really should be working more to try and get them to vote Ahmadinejad out. His current term will end in August 2009.
I hope we can wait till then, not sure we can though.
WoosterOh on July 19, 2008 at 10:41 PM
Interesting perspective. Thank you for making me think.
hillbillyjim on July 19, 2008 at 11:01 PM
The problem with this is that everything that we do to strengthen the position of the Mullahs and Ahmedinejad is counterproductive to a good outcome in Iran. We should be isolating the barbaric Iranian regime, not legitimizing it.
hillbillyjim on July 19, 2008 at 11:04 PM
;)
I think Bush has done a damn good job of making Iran more than just our (and Israel’s) problem. Iran is an European problem long before it’s ours. And he’s done just as good in making the Persians the Arab’s problem. Without the USA in those Straits, KSA’s oil sits on under their sand.
Texas Gal on July 19, 2008 at 11:09 PM
What I was saying was destabilizing Iran, though I dont know if that has ever worked out in the US’s favor.
The Iranian people are good people. I predict that Ahmadinejad wont be re-elected. I seem to recall their is some that are not so thrilled with their Mullahs also.
I just dont know if we have 12 months.
WoosterOh on July 19, 2008 at 11:12 PM
Yeah yeah yeah, then what, Einstein?
hillbillyjim on July 19, 2008 at 11:16 PM
Think of the carbon footprint of this fossil fuel orgy!
Jaibones on July 19, 2008 at 11:49 PM
Do you think elections in Iran are anything more than a farce? Ahmanuttijob is only a figurehead for the mullahs. He can’t take a dump without their approval.
Sekhmet on July 19, 2008 at 11:57 PM
What…. You didn’t know about the international Monopoly tournament going on in Dubai?
Jeeze…
jerrytbg on July 20, 2008 at 12:04 AM
What is the carbon footprint of a Iranian nuke in Haifa, or Tel Avi? How about Rome? London?
Call Gore (appropriate name) and BaTalk Obama and find out.
Limerick on July 20, 2008 at 12:25 AM
A few years ago, I was talking to a Persian immigrant. Nominally Christian, but not very fired-up about it. This was back when the “reformer” Khatami was their prez. This guy was explaining to me that the mullahs install political leaders of their choosing. They put Khatami in and called him the real “reformer” so that anybody who was “more reformist” than Khatami could be trivialized as a fringe element. Then they swing the other way with Achmedinejad to illustrate the limits in the other direction. The people are then constrained between these ideological limits.
It’s the mullahs that want the nukes, and presently Achmedinejad is useful toward that end. When he ceases to be useful he’ll be put on the shelf.
innominatus on July 20, 2008 at 12:32 AM
SteveMG on July 19, 2008 at 6:59 PM
Washington ‘snubbed Iran offer
“Iran offered the US a package of concessions in 2003, but it was rejected…..
Tehran proposed ending support for Lebanese and Palestinian militant groups and helping to stabilise Iraq following the US-led invasion.
Offers, including making its nuclear programme more transparent, were conditional on the US ending hostility.”
In 2003, U.S. Spurned Iran’s Offer of Dialogue
Chimpy on July 20, 2008 at 1:08 AM
If the Israelis take out nuke sites in Iran, think they’ll swing by and take out their one refinery at the same time?
Speakup on July 20, 2008 at 1:16 AM
A living, breathing testament to abortion.
hillbillyjim on July 20, 2008 at 1:31 AM
This is diplomacy. You make the assumption that “talks” should automatically result in conciliaory rhetorical gestures. That’s simply not the way this stuff works.
highhopes on July 20, 2008 at 1:37 AM
So how does this stuff work? Perhaps you could enlighten us, and save us all from all of this unnecessary diplomatic talk? What would your tack be, if not the one espoused by our diplomatic corps? The world is waiting with baited breath.
hillbillyjim on July 20, 2008 at 1:53 AM
Maybe, Obama is the 12th…….my bad.
Johan Klaus on July 20, 2008 at 1:58 AM
Essenszeit.
Johan Klaus on July 20, 2008 at 2:16 AM
I am convinced that those who espouse Islam are people who hate my philosophy and hate me generally. You multi-culti people have failed your masters. How can you seriously tell me that Islam is the religion of peace, while simultaneously calling for the death of anyone opposed to your perverted view of the world? You cannot have it both ways. Either you hate me and my ways or you don’t. There is no middle ground in this, the final debate. Are you for a reasonable resolution between the despotism of Islam and the clarion call for freedom amongst the free people of the world?
If your worldview precludes your seeing this clearly, then I suggest you submit yourself to the local Islamic Council, and make damn sure that you are on the right side of this thing. Dumb asses. (you know who you are).
hillbillyjim on July 20, 2008 at 2:16 AM
Most incoherent post evah!!
But still 99.9% true.
hillbillyjim on July 20, 2008 at 2:20 AM
Most people here have no idea how one should defer to Meteorology professors on the question of global warming. Most of you are simply nuts. I seriously would be afraid to bet my money that you don’t drink urine.
As a result of a single negotiation involving a prominent U.S. diplomat? Why exactly can’t you wait longer?
Look, I personally think the Iranians cannot have nuclear weapons. Which is a fairly precise condition. Or much more precise than a lot of people here would like to think.
If there is a genuine belief that the Iranians may pose a serious threat to anyone in the region, their military installations should be bombed. But we all know Iran will not pose any such threat in the immediate future. Hence my question. Why not talk to them? How does it hurt?
OK, so talks through proxies haven’t been successful so there’s no need to talk. How about sanctions? Cuba? Iraq (according to the official US)? Are we gonna apply the same standard when evaluating feasibility of different approaches of dealing with adversaries? I guess, not. Why not?
freevillage on July 20, 2008 at 2:23 AM
How does it hurt? Are you serious? Do you not think that the stated policy of the United States of America carries any weight? Fuck you, freevillage, and your sociocommunist bullshit rants. Come back with something of substance and I will entertain the idea of humoring you.
hillbillyjim on July 20, 2008 at 2:31 AM
Uhm, thank you for your response… I guess. I’ll wait for the response by Allah or any other much lighter medicated person.
freevillage on July 20, 2008 at 2:57 AM
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