Being stupid is not a crime, taking advantage of that stupidity is. I compare it to a sexual predator that molests “special needs kids”

unseen on July 19, 2008 at 7:15 AM

That’s ridiculous. Taking advantage of someone’s stupidity is not a crime. Breaking the law is a crime. One could argue that the laws need to be changed, but that’s after the fact. The only court you can try these companies in is the court of public opinion – and you’ll probably be successful.

By your logic, every car dealership in the country needs to be closed down.

Drawing the analogy between child molesters and business people is stupid. In one case, the perpetrator robs an innocent of something they are defenseless to protect, can never recover once it’s gone, and will be dealing with the rest of their lives, in all likelihood. In the other case you are trying to remove someone’s right to fail, or make bad decisions – the only thing they will actually learn from.

I realize this post is about to drop from the blog-roll, so you’ll probably never read my response, but there it is.

unseen and entelechy: best contributions to the debate evah! You have clear-eyed common sense.

onlineanalyst on July 19, 2008 at 5:03 AM

We’re just two common mortals. However, this coming from the onlineanalyst, is very much appreciated :) Thank you, and the feeling is mutual. Your contributions are always thoughtful too.

Tale of Two Cities.

unseen on July 19, 2008 at 6:47 AM

One of my favorite reads.

Being stupid is not a crime, taking advantage of that stupidity is.

unseen on July 19, 2008 at 7:15 AM

Loved it. Will use it.

…but it always seemed one was done for redress and the other fro revenge.

It is interesting how humans respond to circumstances and the actions preceding them impact the final outcome…

unseen on July 19, 2008 at 7:31 AM

Very nice analogy of the two 1776 revolutions. Also, spot on about the Burr example, of which there are myriad of…which the media ignore because they always have an agenda. I’d rather that they own up to that agenda, so the public knows. But, the public is mostly oblivious.

I also agree with MB4 on the bailouts, when it is advantageous to them, and to your analysis of the real culprits, and who should be punished. It seems to me these things are ‘pardoned’ due to the (always) next election coming up, for congress, or presidential. Still, we let them get away with it.

Meanwhile he did add his own info to the IMDB – that’s usually how it works:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1109307/

Commentator…Your know he is really so bold…I think he may be right on the larger more important issue.

So what, I’m being as hard nosed as he, the man who presumed to step into John Tower’s place without ever measuring up.

Obamamessiah could hardly be worse than Juan, and he [BHO] is so inexperienced that he barely poses any real threat. I cannot say the same of McAmnesty.

“Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain’s national campaign general co-chair was being paid by a Swiss bank to lobby Congress about the U.S. mortgage crisis at the same time he was advising McCain about his economic policy, federal records show.

Dose anyone recall like… DfDeportation on July 19, 2008 at 2:03 AM

“Gramm was one of five co-sponsors of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000, which critics blame for permitting the Enron scandal to occur. At the time, Gramm’s wife was on Enron’s board of directors.

It’s gets even worse than that…

“…finding out that McCain had a major subprime lender bank lobbyist [for the Swiss USB] whispering in his ear when McCain told the public that it was basically tough luck if they lost their houses?”

Ouch..! Now that really hurts!

Ed Morrissey wrote post about the departure of Phil from the McCain camp. As part of his post, he talked about the Gramm venture in the porn industry:
The second issue has been bouncing around the Leftosphere for a few days.  Gramm invested $15,000 in…

Entelechy on July 19, 2008 at 12:54 AM

No just enjoy the study of history and have always been interested in why the American revolution of 1776 ended the way it did and why the french revolution ended the way it did. I’m sure distance from the crown had something to do with it but it always seemed one was done for redress and the other fro revenge.

It is interesting how humans respond to circumstances and the actions preceding them impact the final outcome.

As far as most people like their Congress critter. I would have to say some of that is true. However, I think most people “don’t know” what their Congress critter does in washington because of congress attempts to keep it from them. The press fails in this regard.

I would love to pick up a paper before the election and read off what votes were down over the last two years.

Not get a 90% conservative rating (what does that mean anyway?)

I want to know the bills and how they voted.

Something like Richard Burr voted to let the Amensty bill through the fillibuster but voted against the final bill.

That tells me in no uncertain terms that Burr was for the bill and only voted against it when the it was clear the bill was going down to defeat.

Given the chance Burr wuld have passed the bill. I’m sure in 2010 Burr will run that he “helped” defeat the bill. And the majority of people will except this as fact and not know the full truth.

The “free markets” when it’s to their advance, when they are winning at gambling, but run to government when that suits them, when they lose at gambling, are the ones that “turn me off” the most. Some of then need to go under as rotted otherwise they will just be at it all again.

MB4 on July 19, 2008 at 2:36 AM

So why not bailout the underlying companies but ARREST the CEO’s for FRAUD and Loansharking.

Most of the bailouts to date can all be traced to the subprime mess. The subprime mess was caused by massive fraud and greed.

Almost all the contracts signed in the subprime mess seem to me like “loanshark” quaility paper.

The terms in those contracts are just impossible to make. It reminds me of the “rent to own stores” that charge you 4 times the price of the furniture. It is basicily a rip off. At one time in our history the government arrested loansharks and the public thought that was a common “good” to protect the unfortunate among us from these types of practices.

The answer when this first arose was for the government to force those companies to rewrite the loans without all the “loanshark” lanugage of “prepayment penalties”, ARM, addtional points, fine print, etc.

But the “free market group” said it was not the business of government to interfere in contracts. And the “no bailout crowd” said that if they were stupid enough to sign then they get what they deserve. So nothing was done.

And the problems got worse as the majority of these loans went belly up, the amount of forclosures on the market put too much supply on the market lowering EVERYONE’s property vaule. Causing massive layoffs in the construction industry whcih caused more forclosures and more supply. As the prices fell, people with their “no money down loans” decided it was better to walk away then pay 30 years on a house they were upside down on and getting in worse shape.

This caused more supply and a sharper decrease in prices.

Etc etc. Then you had the individuals “flipping homes” Lying on applications about income, residential status etc. Those people should also be arrested and charged with fruad. Just because “everyone does it” does not mean it is not a crime.

Now we are where we are at. With banks becoming insolvent, the stock market down 20%, home prices down in some places 50% fropm their highs, forclosures rising, unemployment rising etc.

If the GOvernment would have did it’s job in the first place and protected its citizens from the mafia style home loansharking and made examples of a few of the flippers then none of this would have happened.

Now we got a $300 billion bailout where the government (i.e taxpayers) will be forced to buy the worse loans from the loansharks. The CEO’s and companies that started this fraud will still get 85% of the profit and the homeowners will get the chance to keep their homes. And the taxpayer is on the hook for trillions.

The law of contracts is fine but when the contract is formed with fraud then it is IMO the governments duty to bust those contracts. The government should do the same with the credit card companies that charge 30% interest. that is a loanshark. there is no way people can ever hope to get out from under that type of interest. Those people with credit scores that need 30% interest should not have credit. Credit like driving is a privlege not a right. And it is the government’s job to protect those too stupid to know better from predators be it sexual, crimnal, or finacial.

Being stupid is not a crime, taking advantage of that stupidity is. I compare it to a sexual predator that molests “special needs kids”

This sums it up better IMO:

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to heaven, we were all going direct the other way – in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.
Dickens….Tale of Two Cities.

McCain threw Phil Gramm under the bus over this kind of nonsense. So he assumes the liberal media will start sucking up to him just like they did every time he kicked conservatives in the balls before…

Only that’s not going to work anymore. As long as McCain is one iota to the right of Barak Obama, the liberal media will attack him exactly as rabidly as if he were the most conservative candidate in the world.

logis on July 18, 2008 at 8:58 PM

Sad but true. McCain still seems to believe that his road to the White House should be paved by the bodies of other(?) Republicans.

The reflexive “no bailout group” is making it worse IMO. It is my believe that limited bailouts are better then complete economic collapse and the resulting power grap by the federal government.

Some of these house-of-cards finacial “houses” are wanting some pretty big bailouts though, with probably only the tip-of-the-iceberg showing yet.

The “all free markets group” runs the risk of the same thing happening.

unseen on July 19, 2008 at 12:42 AM

The “free markets” when it’s to their advance, when they are winning at gambling, but run to government when that suits them, when they lose at gambling, are the ones that “turn me off” the most. Some of then need to go under as rotted otherwise they will just be at it all again.

If this is not changed I see shades of the french revolution coming. It will not be a 1776 moment. It will be savage, bloody and revengful.

unseen on July 19, 2008 at 12:31 AM

I know the gutter and I know the stink of the street
Kicked like a dog, I have spat out the bile of defeat
All you beauties who towered above me
You who gave me the smack of your rod
Now I give you the gutter
I give you the judgment of God!

jgapinoy on July 18, 2008 at 8:30 PM

Neither will we mention his wife’s participation in the Enron scandal…

bayam on July 18, 2008 at 9:23 PM

You do realize we’ve had record tax revenue collected since the tax rates have been cut, right?

It’s not the tax cuts that are creating the deficit- it’s the runaway spending.

I agree only in part because most constituents believe their representative is good, and all others are bad, thus not throwing them out, when they should. I do agree with you that the polititions, on both sides, run amock, are elitist, and don’t do what they promise when they run.

I also agree on that “revolution”, if they don’t learn a lesson soon, given their 9 percent ratings.

RushBaby, your imagination is rich :) Hugs to you, and lots of fondness.

unseen, do you have a French background? Thanks for your exchange and have a good night. With best regards,