My thought would be; “we’re in a definite warming cycle.” for whatever underlying reason or circumstance.

J_Gocht on July 20, 2008 at 3:39 PM

We are not in a warming cycle, we are currently in a cooling cycle, the earth’s temperature has been decreasing for ten years now, where have you been?

And as you say “for whatever underlying reason or circumstance.” The reason the earth varies slightly in average temperature is because the sun’s output is not constant. It’s a normal and well know cycle, its not man made.

Anything we as citizens of the world can do to curtail or slow the progression of an undesirable environmental catastrophe for all the plants, animals, and people of this “great blue ball” is definitely worth both our sacrifice and our best efforts!

J_Gocht on July 20, 2008 at 3:39 PM

I might agree with you if only FIRST there was some evidence of such an impending disaster and man was indeed able to do something about it. But this is clearly not the case. The sun’s cycle is beyond our control and Al Gore doesn’t even acknowledge this is the cause.

I’m sure we will debate this again sometime. I hope you open your eyes a little. I’ve tried not to be dismissive in what I’ve said because I know that only turns people off. I can back up everything I’ve said with multiple references but that is a lot of effort when you are not sure the person you are talking to is prepared to listen.

There is no such thing as man made global warming J_Gocht and I’d be happy to point you to all the evidence, but first you have got to achieve and open mind about it.

It’s been fun…. until next time.

I don’t listen to Rush. Probably haven’t heard one of his programs in six years or more. Maxx on July 20, 2008 at 2:54 PM

Hey Maxx, I’ll leave you with this…

Ok, if you don’t listen to the “wingnut” and you don’t read the “nut roots”…

What do you do for entertainment; post on HA and write the definitive autobiography of a man who has made his mind up and no one is going to change it…dammit?

Just asking…

How do I feel about the “preponderance of evidence”?
My thought would be; “we’re in a definite warming cycle.” for whatever underlying reason or circumstance.

Anything we as citizens of the world can do to curtail or slow the progression of an undesirable environmental catastrophe for all the plants, animals, and people of this “great blue ball” is definitely worth both our sacrifice and our best efforts!

I don’t listen to Rush. Probably haven’t heard one of his programs in six years or more.

And I didn’t ask you about “consensus.” I ask YOU personally what you thought the best evidence is for man made global warming.

Listen to the scientists Maxx, not to Rush.

J_Gocht on July 20, 2008 at 12:08 PM

Here’s a question for you. Why do you believe global warming is true? If you had one item of science to stand on as the rock of your belief, what would it be?

[skeptics] should embrace the objectivity of science and lay our personal subjective political inclinations aside.

J_Gocht on July 20, 2008 at 7:54 AM

Maxx, they are purely commentators as are we.

J_Gocht on July 20, 2008 at 12:08 PM

Firstly they are not merely “commentators” like us, climateprogress.org is a devoted site to climate change propaganda and those who post there are obviously true believers in this nonsense. So where is your criticism of them and why do you tell us “skeptics” to shut up, but at the same time reference this propaganda site?

Gosh Maxx, even I must admit that may be just a bit over the top…?
Have you been spending to much time listening to Rush?

J_Gocht on July 20, 2008 at 12:20 PM

Its not over the top at all. You know this, or should know it. Kids are propagandized endlessly with global warming fear mongering in schools. Here’s and article about it, but I’ve read several along these same lines. Propagandizing children is about as low as you can go in order to promote your political agenda, but the global warmers do it with glee.

“…and for frightening our children into sleepless nights.
Maxx on July 20, 2008 at 11:44 AM

Gosh Maxx, even I must admit that may be just a bit over the top…?
Have you been spending to much time listening to Rush?

“…Note that the article states that Monckton paper has NOT been peer reviewed, yet their immediate reaction is to smear Monckton rather than review the paper. How exactly does that fit in for any type of objectivity?
Maxx on July 20, 2008 at 11:44 AM

“…yet their immediate reaction is to smear Monckton rather than review the paper.”

Maxx, they are purely commentators as are we.

It is not their preview to review Lord Mockton’s paper. What they are stating is…that those competent to do so…have not yet done so!

They are being entirely objective; by not attempting to review Lord Mockton’s paper…!

we should embrace the objectivity of science and lay our personal subjective political inclinations aside.

J_Gocht on July 20, 2008 at 7:54 AM

See, you’ve got it backwards. Obviously you believe that it’s the peoples duty to serve science. That’s wrong. Its the job of science to serve people and especially in those areas of science where the taxpayer is footing the bills for science as in the case of the global warming. Taxpayers have every right and in fact a duty to speak up when they believe their hard earned money is being wasted on a boondoggle, and the global warming myth is obviously exactly that.

And there is no objectivity in the big science community on this issue. How many times have we heard the proponents of global warming call for the decertification, or more recently the arrest and prosecution of those who disagree with the hopelessly flawed global warming models? The global warmers are up to their eyeballs in politics on this issue, they have their own paid political spokesman on this issue, Al Gore. Gore is not a scientist, he is a politician and a leftist politician at that.

In fact, this very article that you linked is proof positive that science has lost all objectivity on this issue. Note that the article states that Monckton paper has NOT been peer reviewed, yet their immediate reaction is to smear Monckton rather than review the paper. How exactly does that fit in for any type of objectivity?

Science does not want any debate on this issue, they simply want the public to bow down and pay their bills. That’s not going to happen. And in the end, somebody is going to be accountable for all this wasted money and for frightening our children into sleepless nights.

“…Consensus does not a fact make. Johan Klaus on July 20, 2008 at 10:00 AM

I made no mention of “consensus”.

These scientist still have not explained away previous warmer centuries.
Johan Klaus on July 20, 2008 at 10:02 AM

Scientists and technicians do “not explain away” they rely on empirical evidence and results of reproducible protocols. These specific requirements, until they are settled, often give rise to controversy; such as we witness in the “global warming” debate we are discussing today.

The scientific method must in the last analysis, be the final arbiter.

J_Gocht on July 20, 2008 at 9:54 AM

These scientist still have not explained away previous warmer centuries.

bayam on July 18, 2008 at 6:54 PM

Consensus does not a fact make. Scientist had a consensus on the makeup of Uranus and Saturn which was not even close. Would it be that T. Boone is trying to line his own pockets. It is easy to make money when the government gives a mandate, versus relying on the market.

Physicists forced to reaffirm that human-caused global warming is “incontrovertible”

“The evidence is incontrovertible” and “We must reduce emissions of greenhouse gases beginning now.”

“…[The] editor who single-handedly smeared the good name of the American Physical Society and the 50,000 physicists it represents is one “Jeff Marque, Senior Staff Physicist at Beckman Coulter Corporation, 1050 Page Mill Rd., MSY-14, Palo Alto, CA 94304…
“…Apparently Marque hasn’t quite caught onto the scientific method. Aside from the fact that he doesn’t name a single scientist who does not agree with the conclusion, it is quite irrelevant as to whether there are some scientists who don’t agree with the scientific understanding. As I’ve written, “What matters is scientific findings — data, not opinions…

The scientific method must in the last analysis, be the final arbiter.

Maxx on July 19, 2008 at 10:52 PM

I certainly appreciate your reasoned thoughts concerning the continuing debate about global warming. Your points are well made, especially the issue of undersea volcanoes with respect to the recession of the Artic ice field.

The issue of the Wilkins field in Antarctica however; may be a broken egg from a different bird?

The study of atmospheric and earth science is truly a vast field of differing theories and hypothesizes. Politics per se should not be the final arbiter; the scientific method should prevail. With that in mind, we should embrace the objectivity of science and lay our personal subjective political inclinations aside.

Thanks for your link on the freezing Penguins, actually I had already found it and read it yesterday. I’ve got major issues concerning the truthfulness of the story. (1) why is it that the average global temperature is getting colder since 1998 but the article claims a 3C rise in temperature over the past 50 years for an average of -14.7C in Antarctica, seems very strange. (2) Wiki says both mommy and pappa penguins keep little penguins warm while the other does fishing, did global warming make them become uncaring parents? (3) Also –14.7C is still well below freezing for an AVERAGE temperature, how can it be RAINING half the time, once again, (4) just another fantastic story from the advocates of global warming, protecting their grant money.

This is nothing more than another “tug at your heart-strings” the polar bears are dying story, which of course was confirmed lie number 65,658 from the global warming hucksters. Your problem J_Gocht is that you want to believe this stuff no matter what, no matter how many times the global warmers are show for the pathological liars they are, you still continue to believe them. Unreal.

And I told you why the Arctic ice is melting, but you ignored it. Underwater volcanoes Dude…. more eruptions going on right now than at any time in the recorded past. When you warm the water the ice melts, that’s the way it is, has nothing to do with CO2 or Al Gore global warming.

It’s also a fact that we are STILL coming out of the Little Ice Age which is when most of the glaciers and large masses of ice were formed. Yes, the ice has been melting for 400 years and it will continue to melt unless we go into another ice age. Do you really want to go into another ice age just so sea ice won’t melt?

Ordinary1 on July 18, 2008 at 12:02 PM

upinak on July 18, 2008 at 12:09 PM

Maxx on July 18, 2008 at 12:18 PM
Do you have a link for the freezing penguins?

Here it is Maxx

Thanks for the input folks, geezer that I am, it slipped my mind I’d been posting on this thread earlier…? Have no fear your day is near…

Any who…there’s some good news…

Arctic Sea Ice Narrowly Missed Record Low In Winter 2007…

However…

Arctic Sea Ice Still At Risk Despite Cold Winter, NASA Says…

…and then some not very good.

The massive Wilkins Ice Shelf in the Antarctic is collapsing!

Conservatives will be fighting the global warming myths – now rebranded as climate change – for years. No one is disputing that the temperature of the world has increased a little bit. This change in temperature results in changes around the world. Mig…

Physics groups challenges IPCC and Gore…then tries to cover up! Dumb Ox exclusive……

That’s the reason my friend Scott gave me for buying a hybrid car after I mentioned that a person would probably never save enough money on gas to make up for the premium he or she had paid for the car.
On one hand, I agree with him: I think that…

George Carlin on Threats to the Planet

(content warning)

Well, any group that possesses such brilliance never needs to ask anyone for anything. All they have to do is turn their efforts to modeling much simpler systems, like the S+P500, oil prices, … and then they can earn as much money as they want with their amazing abilities to predict the time series and use that money to fund and implement their policies – privately. Problem solved. People that smart never need to ask others for anything.