D.C. rejects Heller’s gun permit application
posted at 1:12 pm on July 17, 2008 by Allahpundit
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The 32-year ban ends this morning — or does it? Even crueler than being first in line for the iPhone only to find they’re out of stock…
Dick Heller is the man who brought the lawsuit against the District’s 32-year-old ban on handguns. He was among the first in line Thursday morning to apply for a handgun permit.
But when he tried to register his semi-automatic weapon, he says he was rejected. He says his gun has seven bullet clip. Heller says the City Council legislation allows weapons with fewer than eleven bullets in the clip. A spokesman for the DC Police says the gun was a bottom-loading weapon, and according to their interpretation, all bottom-loading guns are outlawed because they are grouped with machine guns.
Here’s the money passage from Scalia’s opinion in Heller describing which weapons can still be regulated:
Miller said, as we have explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those “in common use at the time.”… We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of “dangerous and unusual weapons.”… It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service—M-16 rifles and the like—may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right.
There’s nothing “dangerous and unusual” about a bottom-loading handgun; the District’s just jerking around with formalistic distinctions in order to limit as many household weapons as it can. See this DCist post, via Instapundit, for more examples of that from the new regs, especially the apparent requirement that your gun must remain disassembled until an intruder breaks in, whereupon you’re entitled to try to hastily put it together while your uninvited guest clubs/stabs/shoots you to death. Believe it or not, our Democratic Congress may solve this problem; if not, Heller’s surely going back to court for round two to force some judge to put meat on the bones of whatever Scalia meant by “the sorts of lawful weapons that [are] possessed at home.” Exit question: How many millions of dollars in litigation expenses will it cost the District to fight, and lose, the next round of lawsuits instead of complying with the Court’s decision now in good faith?
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Gun control isn’t about guns, it’s about control.
This is what all leftists have always done, and they will get away with it. Again. The D.C. council knows they were able to keep this tied up in court for 8 years, and they know it will take just as long to run the process again. In the meantime, the ban stays in place. It’s not thier money they’re throwing away defending against lawsuits they know they will lose, it’s ours. To them, it’s an unlimited supply. And there’s a chance that they will win this time. If they don’t, they’ll simply find another excuse to ban the same guns and start the process all over again. Is anyone really surprised this happened this way?
runawayyyy on July 17, 2008 at 2:51 PM
I’ve got several of both flavors, but one of the .357s is the one in my nightstand. I don’t like leaving semiauto magazines loaded for long periods of time because of the constant magazine spring pressure, even if a round is left out. I get absent minded and forget to change the rounds out into other mags for a month or two, so always worry about that. Revolvers don’t have that worry.
a capella on July 17, 2008 at 2:52 PM
It is because of governments like the one in DC we need to be able to protect ourselves against with our guns.
jcrue on July 17, 2008 at 2:57 PM
Answer. It doesn’t matter because they’ll shake down the residents and the Feds for the dough. I wonder if they’re just being pricks to Heller because he brought the suit or whether everyone will get the bum’s rush?
pistolero on July 17, 2008 at 2:58 PM
There’s always the Magnum Research BFR (Big Fine Revolver) in 45-70, or a 500 Smith & Wesson.
Dave from Flint on July 17, 2008 at 2:58 PM
My dad has a Ruger Blackhawk flat-top 3-screw .45LC(Long-Colt)
(Single-Action) Awesome pistol, he deer hunts with it.. >:D
The deer blow up real good, with the hand loads he uses.
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 3:00 PM
That’s ok! I like “wheelguns” better then autos myself anyway.
There’s nothing more intimidating than actually seeing the bullets in the chamber, with their little hollowed-out, Cyclops-like, copper-ringed eyes s-l-o-w-l-y rotate into position and, with a snap, they just sit there, staring back at you, waiting, to send you to the eternal darkness of Hell!! Like a python! Ssssssssssssssssssssssssss! A Colt Python! Sweet!!!!!
Dread Pirate Roberts VI on July 17, 2008 at 3:01 PM
.45 Long-Colt = basically .45 Magnum
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 3:02 PM
Actually, you’re wrong. Reread what I posted. I said SEMI-AUTOMATIC pistol. NO SEMI-AUTOMATIC PISTOL USES CLIPS. They use magazines. Did I say anything about a revolver? Maybe in your world a clip is a speed loader, but that is the wrong nomenclature. A clip is typically used to load a magazine and that is all.
Andy in Agoura Hills on July 17, 2008 at 3:10 PM
My Brother has a Ruger Redhawk .44 Magnum.. That thing his a heater and HEAVY..
Heavier than my dads 45LC.. The Super Redhawk is also chrome.
Kinda like this, its a heater
http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=5502&return=Y
He also has a Scope on his.. >:D
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 3:16 PM
Honestly, I prefer my model 1911 .45, but realistically in the dirt and muck of the Suck, a stainless .357 with hornady rounds is better. It retains the stopping power yet in wet combat environments it sheds moisture quicker, is less apt to jam due to grime, grit etc. It’s just a more dependable piece IMHO.
Alden Pyle on July 17, 2008 at 3:24 PM
CBS radio news just stated that the reason that Heller did not get his license was because he did not bring his “weapon” with him to register as required.
luckybogey on July 17, 2008 at 3:29 PM
My brother has 2 Colt 45ACP 1911’s a “Commander” model and the “Gold Cup” model..
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 3:32 PM
My family loves teh guns.. we cling to them.. :{
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 3:34 PM
Solution to this and all of the other problems posed by the District (representation, etc): Dissolve the District and give Washington to Maryland. Let Maryland law apply to everything, let them vote in Maryland, etc. End this insanity.
johnsteele on July 17, 2008 at 3:36 PM
He Also has a Sphinx 9mm.. :}
Goo ‘ol Swiss engineering..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx_Systems
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 3:38 PM
I suggest an armed demonstration. However, it would have to be overwhelming and peaceful, by and far. Too few mean nothing but martyrs, enough means a statement, too many is a rebellion.
take your pick.
Kat_Mo on July 17, 2008 at 3:47 PM
Actually is good ol’ Czech engineering with some good Swiss workmanship.. (It’s built off the CZ 75)
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 3:47 PM
If we’re gonna get picky, we’re not talking clips OR magazines, but DETACHABLE magazines. A clip is just a spring or piece of metal used to assist with loading, a magazine is a place where cartridges are stored for use with self-loading mechanisms, a detachable magazine is a magazine that can be removed from the gun and replaced.
None of this changes the fact that the penultimate line of the summary of the Supreme Court ruling says this: “Assuming he is not disqualified from exercising Second Amendment rights, the District must permit Heller to register his handgun and must issue him a license to carry it in the home.” Let’s just hope it doesn’t take 8 years to interpret that like it took 200+ years to understand the second amendment.
shirgall on July 17, 2008 at 3:49 PM
I still think he the new ruling is wrong.
Are they going to redefine “Machine gun” as “all bottom-loading guns” WTF..
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 3:55 PM
Armed revolution. Now.
MadisonConservative on July 17, 2008 at 4:01 PM
The problem is, if the police have a warrant to search your home for something else and they come across your assembled/unsecured/loaded gun, they can charge you with the violation. Say, for example, that you have a roommate or a friend staying with you and (unbeknownst to you) that person brings illegal drugs (or kiddie porn, or whatever) into the house. The police get a credible tip about it, they get a search warrant for your house, and they search. During the search, they find your gun. They seize it and charge you with violating the gun law. (The seizure is permitted under the “plain view” exception). Or say you’re away from home and your wife or daughter comes home and finds the front door ajar. She calls the police and gives them permission to look around inside the house for an intruder. While searching, the police see your gun on your bedside table — and you get charged. Or they could be searching under one of the “exigent circumstances” warrant exceptions and come across your gun and charge you with the violation.
The point is that we have a constitutional right to keep and use guns to defend ourselves. A law requiring the gun to be kept disassembled/unloaded/locked up clearly violates that right — and the gun owner should not have to live with the threat of being charged with violating the law just because he/she is exercising their constitutional right.
AZCoyote on July 17, 2008 at 4:06 PM
I have never seen a fire arm with an orientation identified on it. All guns could be bottom loading if held in the proper orientation.
I have a Browning .308 lever action hunting rifle. It loads from the bottom.
If a machine gun were redesigned to accept a clip on the side would it cease to be a machine gun?
The Rock on July 17, 2008 at 4:06 PM
I say we have a Million Gun March on DC. They gonna arrest a million law abiding armed citizens?
NotCoach on July 17, 2008 at 4:08 PM
LOL. Not me! I’ll watch it on TV from a neighboring state and phone in my support.
Limerick on July 17, 2008 at 4:25 PM
Oh come on. When we fire our weapons into the air in support of the 2nd Amendment we’ll be sure to aim at an angle so no rounds return to us. It’ll be fun. Don’t be a sissy :P
NotCoach on July 17, 2008 at 4:30 PM
The Brit Sten gun loads from the side.
a capella on July 17, 2008 at 4:32 PM
How about a Heller Parade? Modeled after the Rose Parade. All the floats are constructed out of spent shell casings.
A 60ft Dirty Harry made out of .44s would be enough to get anyone’s attention.
Limerick on July 17, 2008 at 4:34 PM
I keep a Colt Trooper in 38 Spc in the night stand. I know where the Point-of-aim at 25 feet is, so I’m good. Of course there are weapons in just about every room in the house so no real worry.
JimK on July 17, 2008 at 4:36 PM
Limerick said: “I say we have a Million Gun March on DC. They gonna arrest a million law abiding armed citizens?”
Count me in! I’ll bring along the wife and kids, too, all appropriately armed.
It’s like the Bill of Rights guaranteeing freedom of religious expression and then DC says you can’t display your cross pendant at work, or read your Bible in public, or discuss your religious beliefs in school, or…wait, they DO tell us that! That’s against the Law! Who do they think they are? Most importantly, why do we put up with it?
drewas on July 17, 2008 at 4:36 PM
NotCoach (not Limerick)
Limerick on July 17, 2008 at 4:38 PM
Wish Bush would assign some Feds to investigate the DC Chief for civil rights violations on this but that only happens if a Mexican complains these days.
Buzzy on July 17, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Wow! According to Washington D.C. I own three bottom loading
ShotgunsMachine Guns.Helloyawl on July 17, 2008 at 4:40 PM
How many of you listen to NRAnews.com. They should have an update at 5pm and their regular show at 9pm.
mad saint jack on July 17, 2008 at 4:47 PM
About machine gun. It is legal to own a machine gun in the USA. There is only one case where a legal machinegun owner use it in a criminal act which resulted in one death since the ‘60.
This is about rights. Rights aren’t privilege. In Privilege the government can license, taxes, take away, etc. Rights on the other hand can’t be taken away, taxes, license, etc.. The court has said in the Heller case that the 2nd would be treated like the 1st. The problem is that most gun owners it hasn’t sink in yet.
jdun on July 17, 2008 at 4:52 PM
I do! I do!
They showed a clip of a DC councilman saying that they will just keept writing and rewriting the laws in restrictive terms, going back to court time-and-time-again until they can eventually succeed in getting rid of the 2nd Amendment, another “antiquated” part of the Constitution that just needs to go.
eeyore on July 17, 2008 at 4:54 PM
I guess my biggest question to DC is what difference does it make how the weapon is loaded? Top, side, bottom, single shot breech or revolving cylinder. This ‘gotcha’ rule is what it is, obstructionism.
Limerick on July 17, 2008 at 4:56 PM
Just a small clarification. The CHL class in Texas along with the background check and assorted fees is just to get your license to carry concealed. You won’t receive a permit of any kind to actually purchase a handgun. And you won’t have to register a handgun (e.g. with the local sheriff) either. You can purchase a handgun anywhere they are sold in Texas, assuming you qualify – e.g. not a convicted felon. You do still need to fill out the FBI NICS background check form at the time of purchase.
As far as the CHL goes, you can get one without owning a handgun at all. Many of the classes given at gun ranges provide their own semi auto handguns. My last renewal class provided Glock 9 mms. In order to be licensed to carry either a revolver or a semi auto you must qualify during the CHL class with a semi auto. If you qualify during the class with a revolver you will only be licensed to carry a revolver. Quirky, huh?
And, just as a side note, I prefer carrying revolvers over semi autos. Although I qualified with a Glock 21 (.45) my favorite carry gun is a 5 shot, Ruger SP101 .357 mag. in a shoulder holster.
BowHuntingTexas on July 17, 2008 at 4:59 PM
armsandthelaw.com
A very good source of information. Dave Hardy worked on the academics brief for the Heller case.
mad saint jack on July 17, 2008 at 5:01 PM
Andy:
The issue was what clips are, and what they are used for.
Clips have nothing to do with belt-fed MGs. See link:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/catsearch.aspx?k=clips&ps=10&si=True
Byron on July 17, 2008 at 5:02 PM
These ‘license’ records must be available through the Freedom of Information Act. I would be very interested to to have those records looked into to see how many ‘bottom loaders’ made it through the process. I’m sure you will find the plebs denied but the elites got a wink and a license.
Limerick on July 17, 2008 at 5:03 PM
single-action or double-action revolver?
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 5:15 PM
they should approve double-action since that does go WAY back and is in common use, like with what the Supreme Court said.
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 5:17 PM
I’ve been reading up on the new DC gun control law. If it goes to court it will test the legality of the 1986 and 1934 NFA gun control laws. Faster then I figured it would.
jdun on July 17, 2008 at 5:24 PM
With the Heller ruling the lefties will try to attack the Second Amendment from the flank. Ban gunpowder as a dangerous household chemical, public health hazard, blah blah blah.
Limerick on July 17, 2008 at 5:28 PM
That’s going to be a whole series of cases, for a long time, mostly based on the “arms…in common use” concept mentioned in Heller. There will also be cases fought about that issue when the new Assault Weapons Ban (H.R. 1022, or similar) under BHO bans all rifles with removable magazines.
eeyore on July 17, 2008 at 5:28 PM
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 5:15 PM
Both should be allowed. A double action (DA) is ubiquitous for security personnel such as Mr. Heller.
mad saint jack on July 17, 2008 at 5:28 PM
DC is a cesspool of liberal fascism. I worked and lived there for 25 years. (Now I live in the mountain woods.) Hardly a day goes by that I don’t thank my lucky stars to be out of that gawd-awful place.
petefrt on July 17, 2008 at 5:31 PM
Limerick on July 17, 2008 at 5:28 PM
The UN is having a small arms summit right now, and talking about controlling ammo. No votes just talk.
mad saint jack on July 17, 2008 at 5:32 PM
yea double-action is “normal” like the supreme court said…
my dad’s Ruger Blackhawk .45LC is a single-action
(you gotta cock the hammer with your thumb before your shoot each time)
My bro’s Ruger .44 Mag Super Redhawk is double-action
(cock it with your thumb or just pull the trigger “if your in a pinch”)
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 5:33 PM
Interesting!
If a black helicopter passes a magnet over my home I’m gonna need to call a roofer. :)
Limerick on July 17, 2008 at 5:34 PM
If I might ask, what brand of holster? Vertical or horizontal? I can’t seem to find what I want along that line.
a capella on July 17, 2008 at 5:36 PM
*clings to 1991 80-Series Colt .45*
knob on July 17, 2008 at 5:40 PM
one time, my dad was using a new hand load with his .45LC and it was a jacketed HP however the lead must have soft..
i was hunting in a stand about 500 yards from him and i heard, BANG!….. then BANG!BANG!BANG! LMAO!
(that was from a single action pistol!)
BANG!Bang!Bang! he was fanning the hammer! he’s a pro though.. :}
so about 1/2 hour later he come over to get me and sure enough he hit it 4 times..
I asked him what happened why all the shooting.. he said he shot it knocked it on its butt and it got back up! LOL!!! he said I told that dude you ain’t goin’ nowhere! LMAO! nice 8-pointer. :}
come to find out that the lead in those new loads he using was way to soft.. peeling the jacket right off..
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 5:42 PM
It’s a horizontal cheapy brand I picked up a Academy Sports and Outdoors for something like $20. I keep it pretty tight right up under my left armpit.
I also use a Bianchi paddle / belt holster. It’s nice too but gets a bit uncomfortable on long road trips.
BowHuntingTexas on July 17, 2008 at 5:45 PM
The beast never goes quietly.
pussum207 on July 17, 2008 at 5:48 PM
I could sit here and write how Mr. Heller should use a revolver versus a clip held auto… blah blah blah… the point is you have a Democrat controlled city council and leadership…… they will find any and all blocks to allowing Heller his Constitutional right….. BTW my personal carry piece does happen to be a revolver 38/357… for several reasons… simple mechanism and big bang and concealable. I fear Mr . Heller will have to go to court again….. he needs help!
MNDavenotPC on July 17, 2008 at 5:50 PM
Just FYI … the original pistol Heller tried to register was a High Standard .22LR single-action revolver.
Kristopher on July 17, 2008 at 5:50 PM
So, let me get this straight, OK?
The Dc “authorities” are now saying that, to comply with the SCOTUS decision, they will let people have registered firearms, as long as they are (a) unloaded, (b), gunlocked, and (c) disassembled. Claiming that the owner may unlock, assemble, and load said firearm if under threat. But if said firearm is discharged, said owner will be arrested, both for discharging it and possessing it in an unlawful state (unlocked, assembled, and loaded). In substance, the same law that was just ruled unconstitutional, without even a comma changed.
In the same vein, the Democrats in Congress are flatly refusing to allow any energy legislation that would allow any energy development in the U.S. except, of course, Holy Wind And Sun. This in spite of being told by their constituents to stop carrying water for environmental extremists who dream of a world without humans (other than themselves).
What this adds up to is that yesterday, the Democrats at all levels told both the Supreme Court Of The United States, and the People Of The United States, exactly the same thing;
Writer Joseph Rosenberger, in 1979, observed that the old Soviet Union would be most dangerous when the old men in the Politburo came to believe that they could get away with anything. He stated that with Jimmy Carter in the White House, they were close to that point. He said this six weeks before the Iran Hostage Crisis erupted, and soon after that, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Quod Erat Demonstratem.
I state here and now that the Democratic Party now believes that it can get away with anything- the law and the American people be damned.
This requires strong measures. And the laws they take so lightly provide them. (You have to love our legal traditions.)
The solution for DC is simple. As a friend of mine said this AM, when Adrian Fenty gets in his limo to be motorcaded to work tomorrow morning, said convoy should immediately be surrounded by cars full of uniformed, armed U.S. Marshals with warrants for his arrest. At the same time, the City Council, City Attorney, Chief of Police, Safety Service Director, and District Attorney should also be taken into warrant custody by the Marshal Service. The charge? Contempt Of The United States Supreme Court.
I’ll remind you that in the case of lower courts, Contempt charges = You Go To Jail Until You Agree To Abide By The Court’s Order. And You Pay Fines And Court Costs Every Day Until You Do. (That’s “You, Personally”, not the city you work for, BTW.)
As for Congress, holding them in Contempt Of The American people is much simpler. Tell them, “You Just Lost Your Job”, and begin immediate recall procedures. I was willing to wait for the election, but I now believe that if we do, the lesson will be missed.
Throw the bums out. Now.
clear ether
eon
eon on July 17, 2008 at 5:52 PM
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 5:42 PM
I made my dad watch Cowboys on the outdoor channel last night. He said, “I wish they would play it a normal speed.” I said “what? They are not speeding up the film that is normal speed.”
mad saint jack on July 17, 2008 at 5:53 PM
Kristopher on July 17, 2008 at 5:50 PM
Good find.
mad saint jack on July 17, 2008 at 5:55 PM
I’m just getting started on this road, but I’ll offer a couple of cents on what I’ve heard. My CCW instructor (President of the International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors) likes the Blackhawk Serpa holster, because of it’s excellent anti-snatching retention mechanism . He also doesn’t like shoulder holsters because 1) they sometimes have no retention and the gun falls out when you lean over, and 2) the shoulder holster is slightly more likely to be exposed under your concealment garment than one worn on the hip. Important in a state that has concealed carry but not open carry.
Again, ears, not experience.
eeyore on July 17, 2008 at 5:55 PM
Sure it was a 22lr and not a 22Mag?
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 5:56 PM
Yeah…my choice also. A model 686 .357 6 shot. and the wifey’s a 686 .357 2-1/2 7 shot.
The semis we have are great but prefer the one handed point and shoot advantage.
Limerick on July 17, 2008 at 5:56 PM
Actually it’s a good thing that DC resisted the SCOTUS ruling. Its gives gun owners a way to attack other gun control issues. DC government is not hurting us only helping.
jdun on July 17, 2008 at 5:57 PM
thats what he was like coyboy pops! >:D
shoot them bucks! bang! :}
(then i got to help him drag another deer out of the woods… sheesh..)
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 5:59 PM
Limerick
Mine’s a S&W Model 60-15 3in barrel five shot stainless… I use a Bianchi inside belt holster or outside pancake.
MNDavenotPC on July 17, 2008 at 6:04 PM
My brother got a deer on a tractor row in a friend’s cornfield. Drove his truck right up to pick up his corn-fed deer.
eeyore on July 17, 2008 at 6:04 PM
One thing. The US Congress can preempt the DC gun laws.
armsandthelaw.com
mad saint jack on July 17, 2008 at 6:04 PM
The carry issue sucks for me. Contrary to the ‘my fat fingers’ jokes I’m a wirey fella. In the winter it is no problem, but summer bites (I usually leave it in the truck).
I have two clams, one out/carry, one in/carry, but with my waistline the inside carry one is not just totally uncomfortable but also hardly un-noticeable. Someone mentioned the shoulder holster but again for Texas that is just for winter. I don’t like them anyway because of they seem prone to being dropped too easily.
Limerick on July 17, 2008 at 6:12 PM
this is in thick woods, also on State land “wildlife area” so, “no motorized vehicles allowed”
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 6:14 PM
The DC machine gun ban is not a new law. I assume that Heller’s council didn’t want to touch that law because the press would not be able to report the facts of the story correctly, and the headlines would say that The NRA is trying to make Machine guns legal.
mad saint jack on July 17, 2008 at 6:14 PM
Machine guns are legal to own. Never been illegal.
jdun on July 17, 2008 at 6:18 PM
And listen to Eleanor Holmes Norton (and supporters) throw lo-o-o-ng tantrums on the House floor?
I think…..not. They’ll leave it to the courts.
eeyore on July 17, 2008 at 6:18 PM
BTW, to this day my dad still denies that he was “fanning the hammer”…
Uhh huh.. he said think about it how could I have hit it all 4 times doing that? the guys a trickster..(must have some fast thumbs then) >:D
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 6:19 PM
Limerick
I’m 235 and 6′2″ so Hawaiian shirts or golf shirts worn outside work for me. Of course, here in MN winter is a no brainer. Shoulder holsters are for wanna be James Bond types…. people like that scare me.
MNDavenotPC on July 17, 2008 at 6:21 PM
There may be state laws that ban MGs. Kansas just made MGs legal.
mad saint jack on July 17, 2008 at 6:24 PM
ED is on with John Gibson.
mad saint jack on July 17, 2008 at 6:25 PM
No but to get one you need lots more information
fingerprints, 2 picture of you, a criminal background check.. $200 tax. boatloads of paperwork, and other application taxes. have form4 signed by Police in your area.. etc..
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 6:28 PM
http://www.impactguns.com/store/machineguns_legalities.html
Chakra Hammer on July 17, 2008 at 6:29 PM
And your point is? At the end of the day you can own one.
There are few states left that ban machingun but at the federal level it is legal to own it. Never been illegal. Since it is not illegal to own machineguns and the 2nd amendments is now an individual right. There is no reason for the extra taxes and forms. Do you need to fill out a form in order to speak your mind against the government? No you don’t.
jdun on July 17, 2008 at 6:41 PM
Yeah, my CCW instructor doesn’t like them either. I do, but can’t seem to find what I want. I’ve got a Bianchi, but can’t get it adjusted properly. I’ve got a couple of Milt Sparks belt holsters, but really don’t care for additional weight around my middle, pulling down my pants. A decent shoulder vertical type with a retention strap doesn’t necessarily make one a James Bond wannabe. It’s a question of comfort, body build, clothing, and accessibility in a car seat. It’s for a S&W 66 4″ and last I looked, that ain’t a James Bond type weapon. Jeesh!
a capella on July 17, 2008 at 6:43 PM
I am absolutely “gun dumb”. I live in a small, quiet, New England town. Was on vacation last week and got a call on my cell from the police that my dog had gotten out ’cause the house-sitter forgot to lock the slider. They put him back in house.
Exciting stuff.
So I don’t need a gun for protection and I don’t hunt. But lately, I have been thinking of getting something. Is there a gun and/or rifle that every red-blooded American should have as part of their “survival kit”?
Should I get a gun that does not have to be registered? You know, in case President Obama turns us over to the UN? What would that be?
Rod on July 17, 2008 at 6:58 PM
I agree.
mad saint jack on July 17, 2008 at 6:59 PM
Everyone should have a .22!
infidel on July 17, 2008 at 7:02 PM
Best advice I have is go to a range and get instruction before purchasing a weapon. I’m not sure about your state, but here you can rent any type of weapon at the local gun club. From single shot .22 target pistols to 7.62mm machine guns.
Let your hand pick out the gun you need, not your head. It is better to control the weapon then have one that will knock down Godzilla in full a full sprint if you could hit him with it in the first place.
Limerick on July 17, 2008 at 7:06 PM
It seems that the D.C. city politicians were/are trying to outlaw all firearms:
“A spokesman for the DC Police says the gun was a bottom-loading weapon, and according to their interpretation, all bottom-loading guns are outlawed because they are grouped with machine guns.“
Does it depend on what the definition of “load” is?
Check your bolt-action rifle and pump shotgun: odds are they load the ammunition into the barrel from below the barrel (i.e., bottom-loading). Ditto for lever-action firearms.
Conversely, most machineguns (Maxim, Vickers, Browning, Spandau, MG-42, M-60) load from the side.
Did the D.C. politicians mean “load a magazine into the firearm from the bottom of the firearm”?
But most gangstas hold their pistols horizontally, so the magazine actually loads from the side.
Will the D.C. city officials try to play this game? Things sort of look this way.
More importantly, since the Supreme Court has ruled in favor of Heller, can Heller and others now start having various D.C. city officials arrested for violating their 2nd Amendment rights.
Even if Heller did not bring the firearm to be registered, the make, model and serial number, and perhaps a bill of sale, should be enough; or is D.C. going to start requiring ballistics tests and samples?
Arbalest on July 17, 2008 at 7:06 PM
The problem is, if you need a gun for protection that is not a good time to be a rank amateur.
I don’t know what your state and local laws are. For most people to buy a gun from an FFL dealer you fill out a form and they call the FBI to do a background check (NICS) then the form is kept on record at the shop.
mad saint jack on July 17, 2008 at 7:06 PM
My stepbrother just happens to own a 9mm pistol that is loaded with a stripper clip or very carefully with individual cartridges and does not have a detachable magazine. Steyr-Hahn Model 1912 or M12
meci on July 17, 2008 at 7:09 PM
scotusblog.com
mad saint jack on July 17, 2008 at 7:12 PM
You’ve just asked a question that could lead this to a 5000 comment thread.
Handguns, shotguns and rifles all have their proponents for the various aspects of SHTF life. Just start reading – a lot. Massad Ayoob, Jeff Cooper. Listen to Downrage radio (podcast at http://www.downrange.tv) Once you start looking, it’s easy to find tons of info that will give you the main arguments in all areas.
eeyore on July 17, 2008 at 7:18 PM
Or a decent shot gun.
But as far as I’m concerned, everyone should have the choice, and not have the choice made for them.
darkpixel on July 17, 2008 at 7:31 PM
Why even bother to register your guns anyway?
DfDeportation on July 17, 2008 at 7:35 PM
Why even bother to register your guns anyway?
DfDeportation on July 17, 2008 at 7:35 PM
To be a law-abiding gun owner.
mad saint jack on July 17, 2008 at 7:41 PM
The problem I have is almost all Americans believe that Machineguns are illegal. They have been brainwashed by the liberal media.
In the coming days the new DC gun control law will be look by many many lawyers. These lawyers will try to use it as a vehicle to strike down the 1986 and 1934 NFA gun control laws. The court said that the second amendment is to be treated like the 1st, then you can said that gun registration and stamp taxes are illegal. Machinegun are perfectly legal to own then the 1986 gun control law is illegal under Heller ruling because machineguns aren’t unusual in the ruling.
jdun on July 17, 2008 at 7:43 PM
Please stop with the clips vs. magazines debate. It has been done so many times before.
Clips are formed pieces of metal (or plastic) that hold ammo. Magazines are boxes with an internal spring system.
Revolvers chambered in calibers with a rebated rim such as .45 ACP or 9mm use moon clips to allow for extraction. Custom revolvers like Jerry Miculik’s can also use moon clips.
Stripper Clips are typically used by military bolt-action rifle such as those used in WWI. These guns still have an internal magazine that the clip feeds the ammo into. The semi-auto SKS rifle is also designed to use stripper clips to feed it’s fixed magazine. I can think of 2 semi-auto pistols that use stripper clips to feed an internal magazine. The Mauser Broomhandle and the Grendel P-10.
The US M1 Garand uses an en bloc clip that fits into the rifle and is ejected after the last shot is fired. IIRC the M1 still can be said to have an internal magazine with a spring system.
Your typical hunting rifle has an internal magazine also called a blind magazine.
Your typical shotgun has a tubular magazine.
Noted.
This debate alway lead to nowhere.
mad saint jack on July 17, 2008 at 7:50 PM
Leads to nowhere. sigh.
mad saint jack on July 17, 2008 at 7:53 PM
Where I live in Alabama within a 80 mile round trip there is a class 3 gun dealer. And I with proper I.D. and back ground check can purchase a full auto weapon. Be it 22 cal to 45 Thompson Sub. With a FFl. license these can be purchased.
AMartinez on July 17, 2008 at 7:53 PM
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