Ready to invade Pakistan?
posted at 8:30 am on July 16, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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The cross-border attack in Kunar this weekend has apparently galvanized the US and NATO into taking action in the opposite direction. The Times of London reports that the US has massed troops along the border in order to strike into areas essentially ungoverned by the Pakistanis, targeting Taliban and al-Qaeda bases. The Pakistanis warn of the consequences, but Afghanistan and India claim that their intelligence service has sided with the terrorists:
US troops in Afghanistan massed close to the border yesterday for a possible attack on al-Qaeda and Taleban bases in the lawless North Waziristan tribal belt in Pakistan.
Reports from the area said that hundreds of Nato troops were airlifted across the mountains from the village of Lowara Mandi, which has been an important base for cross-border attacks in Afghanistan. Heavy artillery and armoured vehicles were also being moved into position.
The deployment followed a claim by the Afghan Government on Monday that the Pakistani Army and its spy agency had become “the world’s biggest producers of terrorism and extremism”. The Pakistani Foreign Ministry accused Kabul of creating an “artificial crisis to satisfy short-term political expediencies”. …
Western commanders say there has been a marked increase in cross-border infiltration in the past few months, fuelling the insurgency in Afghanistan. Nato troops have clashed with Pakistani units along the South Waziristan border.
The West has just about concluded that the government in Islamabad has become useless as an ally in fighting terrorists. They have lost all control of the FATA regions along the border, and according to Afghanistan and India, their intelligence service is working for the enemy. The attacks coming out of Pakistan have begun including Pakistani armed forces, which led to the US killing a number of them as they ran back across the border after a failed ambush. Pakistan protested the deaths, but the US released video showing soldiers fleeing American gunships in Afghanistan — where they didn’t belong.
The big question will be whether Pervez Musharraf can keep Pakistani nukes from falling into terrorist control once we start crossing the border. US action will almost certainly radicalize the population, and the next election might produce a highly pro-Islamist government as a result. That risks the worst-case scenario: terrorists gaining control of nuclear weapons. India would have to react to the threat of a potential nuclear exchange in that case, and the US would face extreme pressure to act — which could start a regional war in south Asia.
On the other hand, the Pakistanis cannot maintain their own sovereignty now in the FATA. American operations in the region might convince the tribes that siding with terrorists over Islamabad is too dangerous for their continued health. It could work to force the regions back to the control of the Pakistani Army in the long run, and in the short run we can destroy the terrorist infrastructure that has expanded along the border. It’s a big gamble, but the status quo is unacceptable.
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It’s about time.
Maybe we’ll get lucky & fry Yomamma Bin-Loser.
jgapinoy on July 16, 2008 at 8:33 AM
Did they really print Nato instead of NATO?
jgapinoy on July 16, 2008 at 8:35 AM
Born ready.
Dr. Manhattan on July 16, 2008 at 8:36 AM
I wouldn’t jump to that conclusion. The regular folks may be as fed up as the Iraqis are.
TheBigOldDog on July 16, 2008 at 8:38 AM
Looks like we’re beating the bushes to drive Bin Laden out into the open.
csdeven on July 16, 2008 at 8:39 AM
Let’s go boy’s..Get after them…
twiggman on July 16, 2008 at 8:39 AM
You can almost hear the wringing of hands by the democrats. With NATO being an important part of the mission, the “playground” mentality of the democratic leadership about being loved by our friends doesn’t reasonate with the cowards as much as it usually does.
volsense on July 16, 2008 at 8:40 AM
I am not sure how much more they can be radicalized and the latter is a fate accompli.
drjohn on July 16, 2008 at 8:42 AM
The Weimer Republic-like government in Pakistan is bound to fall, palm greasing kleptocrats are no match for committed terrorists.
Do the right thing and let the chips fall where they may.
NoDonkey on July 16, 2008 at 8:42 AM
I’d almost rather see neutron bombs for this action.
drjohn on July 16, 2008 at 8:42 AM
Lock and load. Let the bodies hit the floor.
Godspeed soldiers.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 16, 2008 at 8:42 AM
This has been coming for a long time. The lawless regions of the world are a magnet for these thugs, and it is obvious that the Pakistani government cannot or will not assert the rule of law there. Until some semblance of order can be established other than the brutish Taliban proscriptions, this area will continue to be a viper’s nest.
My God, I pray that we have some credible intelligence about the Pakistani nukes’ location, and command and control structure, in the event that bad goes to worse.
hillbillyjim on July 16, 2008 at 8:42 AM
The left in the US will go ballistic just like they did when Nixon bombed NVA logistics camps and routes in Cambodia.
Could be fun.
rockhauler on July 16, 2008 at 8:43 AM
In that case, I think we have a new member to add to the Axis of Evil.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 16, 2008 at 8:44 AM
Time for regime change in Islamabad.
Hey boys, there are a few “schools” (aka madrassas) that they might be hiding in. Jussayin…..
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 16, 2008 at 8:45 AM
India is facing a confidence vote on the government over the recent nuclear technology deal with the U.S.(which has ticked off the PAKs, China, and Russia). Russia is losing it’s influence with the Indian military over the aircraft carrier deal that went belly up and we have stepped in to offer Kitty Hawk to the Indian navy. I mention this because any open conflict with PAK would be greatly assisted if we can get support from Mumbai.
It is a big gamble in crossing over but what other choice do we have but to force PAK to take sides openly?
Limerick on July 16, 2008 at 8:46 AM
But wait! Pakistan had nothing to do with 9-11, therefore military force is off the table. (Democrat party talking point number 10831).
We must listen to our brothers in the democrat party, they know how to fight a smarter war on terror. Some of them were in Vietnam!
jeff_from_mpls on July 16, 2008 at 8:46 AM
Right now some future “Waffles” is planning his “Christmas in Pakistan” super sercret mission.
Alden Pyle on July 16, 2008 at 8:46 AM
So what if a few cab drivers and 7-11 managers get a little pissed off?
/sarc
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 16, 2008 at 8:47 AM
The religious fanatics who enslave their own people exist because of the failure of civilized nations doing nothing. We know that the democrats will immediately try to initiate our defeat, but the means to handle this swiftly, if the leadership of the free world decides to do so, is an option that the democrats cannot stop.
volsense on July 16, 2008 at 8:48 AM
Let’s see, what did Obama say about invading Pakistan?
davecatbone on July 16, 2008 at 8:49 AM
Is there no one loyal to Musharraf to help fight the jihadis in their own country? I take that back.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 16, 2008 at 8:49 AM
The options are few and fraught with peril. If we do nothing, we will be resigning ourselves to a longer and more dangerous presence in Afghanistan, or to altogether surrender to these animals.
In my opinion, neither of those options are acceptable.
hillbillyjim on July 16, 2008 at 8:53 AM
if these areas are only inhabited by terrorists why dont we just turn those mountains into small smoldering hills.
trailortrash on July 16, 2008 at 8:54 AM
No problem that a handful of nukes wouldn’t permanently solve..
doriangrey on July 16, 2008 at 8:54 AM
They’re not radicalized now? Just embittered youth waiting for Barry’s community service team to serve them a big plate of social justice?
Buy Danish on July 16, 2008 at 8:54 AM
Exactly, you really have to be one hell of a coward to worry about angering people who are already trying to kill you.
doriangrey on July 16, 2008 at 8:57 AM
One thing we all must remember, we cannot stay if we cross over. There just aren’t enough troops to secure the territories. This ‘invasion’ would have to be more a reconnaissance in force, get in, blow stuff up, get out.
Limerick on July 16, 2008 at 8:59 AM
Hah! I can picture some grubby, bearded Paki-smurf screaming, “Now I hate American infidel even more!” I guess they’ll use “dull” knives to lop off our heads in order to show their increase in hate and radicalization.
Alden Pyle on July 16, 2008 at 8:59 AM
He’s gotta get something right pretty soon. Law of averages. Flip a coin enough times,..etc. It’s been so long and even pitchers get base hits on occasion.
a capella on July 16, 2008 at 8:59 AM
Apaches, don’t forget the Apaches.
a capella on July 16, 2008 at 9:02 AM
Whoa!
Even if this was our best option, “a handful of nukes” would only serve to fan the flames of worldwide jihad, unless we have precise targeting information about the Pakistani nukes, and even in that case successful neutralization of them is not a guaranteed outcome by any means.
hillbillyjim on July 16, 2008 at 9:02 AM
I’m a Warthog fan myself :)
Limerick on July 16, 2008 at 9:03 AM
Obama will somehow, probably try to get credit for this because “his words” inspired action.
jencab on July 16, 2008 at 9:03 AM
+1
carbon_footprint on July 16, 2008 at 9:04 AM
And Christmas in Cambodia.
Johan Klaus on July 16, 2008 at 9:05 AM
Lock and load. Let the bodies hit the floor.
Godspeed soldiers.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 16, 2008 at 8:42 AM
Ditto’s…..
We are at war; let our warriors do what they were trained to do. Don’t handcuff them. Sticking our warriors in a remote base without the proper fire power to resist an attack coming from a few hundred of the enemy; this is not an example of letting our warriors do what they were trained to do, but rather an example of setting our warriors up to be sitting ducks. Fight to win, or get our warriors out of there!
Keemo on July 16, 2008 at 9:06 AM
Yes, stoned out of their tiny minds!
OldEnglish on July 16, 2008 at 9:06 AM
No sh!t, playa. Try telling that to Daniel Pearl’s widow.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 16, 2008 at 9:06 AM
Air Power, lots and lots of Air Power! I think we’ll have Rangers go in and secure the nukes and take ‘em back to Bagram airfield.
God bless and protect our Troops and their Allies!
Tony737 on July 16, 2008 at 9:09 AM
I think that’s one of those stylistic Britishisms. Pip pip, cheerio and all.
This invasion, if it occurs, has been a long time coming. We have shown remarkable restraint thus far. The Pakistani population may be further radicalized as a result but it could also go the other way – many people may be tired of living under the Islamic fundamentalist jackboot and will be happy to see their oppressors gone.
The only certain outcome is the torrent of irrational rage that will come from the Left, even those who supported Obama’s statements about invading Pakistan up until five minutes before our troops actually went in. Same thing as would happen if we ever, you know, took them up on their idea and did something in Darfur.
Gilda on July 16, 2008 at 9:10 AM
… if we ever, you know, took them up on their idea and did something in Darfur. – Gilda
The Air Force … heck, ONE U.S. Navy airwing could take out the janjaweed in one pass.
Tony737 on July 16, 2008 at 9:14 AM
Ed,
As an Indian, with no love lost for “land of pure”,nothing will please me that NATO kicking some behinds in Pakistan, having said that I don’t think it is such a good idea. I am afraid that such a move may precipitate collapse of Pakistani government resulting in dire consequences. I have said it before but the nightmare scenario is capture of nuclear arsenal by Taliban and its sympathizers.
IMO The best strategy (and here I admit I am biased as Indian) is a long term one, planned dismantling of Pakistan de-nuclearization of the existing capability, and securing resulting nation-states.
Gaurav on July 16, 2008 at 9:15 AM
Joint Chief Pyle’s TO DO List:
1. Afghanastan
2. Iraq
3. Pakistan
4. Summer on the Vineyard with Halle Berry
5. Iran
6. Slap around the Hezbos
7. Rough up a few Skinnies
8. Rout the Beaners in Ven
Alden Pyle on July 16, 2008 at 9:16 AM
I’m a Warthog fan myself – Limey
Yeah, me too brutha! Nothin’ says ‘I hate you’ like a thousand 30mm H.E.I. rounds comin’ at you!
Tony737 on July 16, 2008 at 9:19 AM
Summer on the Vineyard with Halle Berry – Alden
Hands off my girl, Alden! Haha! You have good taste in women, my friend.
Tony737 on July 16, 2008 at 9:21 AM
If Pakistan can’t (or wont) go after the bastards then it’s time for this to happen.
Yakko77 on July 16, 2008 at 9:22 AM
We are actually going to invade and attack Democrats ally in Pakistan?? Good idea Bush we should attack Democrats ally Taliban and terroist groups.
BroncosRock on July 16, 2008 at 9:23 AM
Great news.
I’m sick and tired of listening to the Dems mantra of “seven years later and Bush still hasn’t found Osama”.
Here’s to hoping we find him real soon, and then make him disappear again, for good.
Trials, we don’t need no stinkin’ trials.
fogw on July 16, 2008 at 9:25 AM
*gasp* Pakistan is sponsoring extremists?! You don’t say! It’s time to take it to the frontier. Let’s roll…
CP on July 16, 2008 at 9:25 AM
B… b… but… that’d be a War! Crime! and we’d be deluged with demands to Impeach! from the same leftists who previously advocated that action.
Same thing will happen if we go into Pakistan and get Bin Laden. The anti-Iraq War, “Bush should’ve gone after Bin Laden instead!” shriekers will be the first and loudest to condemn him for doing it.
Gilda on July 16, 2008 at 9:30 AM
Warthogs rule!
Pakistan has always known that at some point it was going to have to face its own radical numbers. Should we cross the border in force, with the chaos it brings, this may force the Pakistanis to face their dark side.
Will they control the ensuing riots and by what means? Will divisions open up in the army? Will the secular middle class revolt? Will madrases be burned down? How much of the country is radical? Lots of stuff could happen.
For me, it is all necessary. Chemo is very painful.
patrick neid on July 16, 2008 at 9:30 AM
Tell your son we said thank you and be careful! God bless him and all of his buddies!
Tony737 on July 16, 2008 at 9:32 AM
Kick ass.
Johan Klaus on July 16, 2008 at 9:37 AM
Exactly how would that be done? Pakistan isn’t giving up their nukes as long as India has them.
a capella on July 16, 2008 at 9:38 AM
True, but that’s not the kind of credit or publicity Barry needs to appease Code Pink and the other misfits that make up his increasingly bitter and disillusioned base.
They will seethe when Barry appears from the on stage at the convention, transformed with camouflage makeup on his face and a red bandana around his head like Rambo.
Operation Chaos!
jeff_from_mpls on July 16, 2008 at 9:38 AM
What is better than one marine protecting another marine’s back.
Johan Klaus on July 16, 2008 at 9:40 AM
Phuqqin’ Paki’s. We gave ‘em all that money to equip their troops to help us fight the talibs and they turn it around on us. If they get in the way, they die too. Phuq ‘em.
Tony737 on July 16, 2008 at 9:41 AM
Anyone getting a feeling that some leftwing politician is going to show up in Pakistan on a ‘Peace Mission’? I don’t know why; someone mentioned Obama above taking a ‘peace vacation’ or some such…makes me wonder if someone like Jesse Jackson, or one of the Baghdad congressman are going to pop over and try play spoiler before this heats up too much. Hopefully not. If Pakistan’s intelligence service is really that compromised that it’s operating with terrorists assaulting NATO positions, Mussharraf has got to be in a lot of danger, whether he decides to help us or not.
austinnelly on July 16, 2008 at 9:45 AM
will the paultard ‘right’ and far-left have the nerve to go bananas over this for “invading a Sovereign Nation”?
jp on July 16, 2008 at 9:45 AM
Johan, if you or your son are ever on my plane, the beers are free! Did I read it right on the other thread, your GRANDSON is in the mlitary too? More free beer!
Tony737 on July 16, 2008 at 9:46 AM
btw, if Libertarians come with that line…throw this Ayn Rand quote back at them and point out Pakistan is a Dictatorship now.
jp on July 16, 2008 at 9:47 AM
Which is why I said dismantling Pakistan prior to de-nuclearization. Is it doable ? Anybody’s guess.
Gaurav on July 16, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Not to mention the AC-130U.
Johan Klaus on July 16, 2008 at 9:49 AM
A broken clock is right twice a day.
Godspeed to the soldiers and airmen who will carry out this mission. Good hunting.
NeighborhoodCatLady on July 16, 2008 at 9:50 AM
… point out
PakistanWaziristan is a Dictatorship now.Waziristan is no longer part of Pakistan, the “Federally Administered Tribal Area” is NOT federally administered and therefore is fair game.
Tony737 on July 16, 2008 at 9:51 AM
Right now, some bureaucrat in the basement of the State Department is busy translating Miranda rights into every language and dialect known to be spoken in Pakistan.
Thanks, democrats!
jeff_from_mpls on July 16, 2008 at 9:52 AM
Call me cynical, but I’ve thought all along that U.S. and NATO forces have known all along where Bin Laden has been hiding and that they’ve been waiting for just this moment to go after him. It’s a way for Bush to go out with a bang and to negate that “lame duck” status.
pullingmyhairout on July 16, 2008 at 9:52 AM
The Pakistani intelligence agencies seem to be as fractured as the rest of the country, and I doubt if Musharraf knows who he can and cannot trust. I believe that a lot of them switch from side to side, or work with various factions as politics and practicality dictate.
If Musharraf can assert himself when and if NATO exerts pressure on the Taliban, a lot of the military and intelligence factions would come along with the “strong horse”.
So many “ifs”.
hillbillyjim on July 16, 2008 at 9:53 AM
Not to mention the AC-130U. – Johan
Good call! Go get ‘em Puff! And let’s not forget the B-52. Carpet bomb those phuqers!
If you phuq with America, Puff and BUFF are comin’ to get ya!
Tony737 on July 16, 2008 at 9:54 AM
Yes,the son is in the USMC and the grandson is in the USAF and the grandson was wounded. Go figure.
Johan Klaus on July 16, 2008 at 9:55 AM
Not to mention the USN and the USMC.
Johan Klaus on July 16, 2008 at 9:58 AM
Gaurav on July 16, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Gaurav, our mistake from the beginning was in fighting in this region without coordinating with India. I have no doubt that India will play a major roll in future operations in the area.
Basically what we are proposing in the FATA is the exact same thing that India has been dealing with in Kashmir. The Pakistani government and military says ‘we aren’t supporting them or fighting them, but we agree with their right to sovereignty’. Pakistan is now and always has been full of crap. . . but America buys that crap. India has seen EVERY ONE of their tactics and would be a great help to our strategists.
Pakistan shouldn’t have nukes. But India can’t give up nukes because of China. Maybe we can take out their nuclear weapons facilities in a military strike. The only problem is that Pakistan has nuclear weapons. This is why we must keep Iran from getting them.
But the bottom line is this has gone on too long. We should not have considered Pakistan a friend to start with and now these are the fruits of those actions. It must be done now. . . but we will do it with Indian support as much as possible.
ThackerAgency on July 16, 2008 at 10:01 AM
Perhaps the dismantling is about to start. Nothing else has worked and they can’t be depended on to abide by agreements.
a capella on July 16, 2008 at 10:03 AM
And now the U.S. has had to turn over the video tapes of interrogations at GITMO to attorneys of captured terrorist. Animal house.
Johan Klaus on July 16, 2008 at 10:05 AM
War makes strange bedfellows.
Johan Klaus on July 16, 2008 at 10:09 AM
… the grandson was wounded. – J.K.
Tell him we love him and to get better soon!
Tony737 on July 16, 2008 at 10:18 AM
Tough call, but I think we gotta go in there. Unless we have a plan to infiltrate their intelligence services from the inside, we can’t let the Taliban thrive in Pakistan.
WisCon on July 16, 2008 at 10:24 AM
MY GOD!
This is BIG NEWS! Where is the story that adresses this?
Link please.
pseudonominus on July 16, 2008 at 10:25 AM
Danke.
Johan Klaus on July 16, 2008 at 10:27 AM
Not an under-measured response scenario.
If they do it, go for the gusto.
Speakup on July 16, 2008 at 10:29 AM
That’s my thinking, too. Shock and awe.
Bugler on July 16, 2008 at 10:35 AM
Story is a couple weeks old. We took out some PAK army(home guard) troops during the airstrike. The PAKs claim it was friendly fire, the US called horseapples on it.
I’ll try to find the story….
Limerick on July 16, 2008 at 10:35 AM
Thacker,
“We should not have considered Pakistan a friend to start with”
We didn’t really have a choice. Look at the geography, and the supply lines.
exhelodrvr on July 16, 2008 at 10:36 AM
pseudo
the PAK take via BBC
Limerick on July 16, 2008 at 10:38 AM
I like your analysis on this topic Ed. But until you understand how all this relates to the primacy of Islamic loyalty to the ummah, sharia law, Islamic duality (Meccan v. Medinan Islam), and false ‘oppression’ or ‘invasions’ (they invade first, but your response is the provocation) which always justify jihad against the kuffar, you’ll be missing half the picture.
But if you’re looking for a shorthand way of dealing with them: never appease, always attack, and never provide them assistance — it will be viewed as weakness and jizya.
Of course not all Muslims believe in traditional Islam, yadda, yadda, yadda….
Beagle on July 16, 2008 at 10:41 AM
Very slippery sleding, but necessary at this point.
If Pakistan is on board, the squeeze play should work quite nicely.
Nothing would be better than to once again kick the terrorists asses just like every other time these cave men pick a fight with the West.
Lets hope the supply of virgins holds up.
saiga on July 16, 2008 at 10:43 AM
This is almost too little,too late. We should’ve been crossing into Pak long ago. And dared them to do something about it. We must ally w/India and squash these idiot Pakistani’s. Their nukes must be taken away from them and that’ll have to be done by force.
But India and Afghanistan must take the lead here and we must back them. We must convince them that it is their battle and we can’t fight their battles for them. But we can help. DD
Darvin Dowdy on July 16, 2008 at 10:45 AM
Bitte.
Tony737 on July 16, 2008 at 10:50 AM
Their election, or ours?
Blacklake on July 16, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Holy holy wars, Batman! If we actively side with India vs Pakistan, then we will truly be fighting against all of Pakistan, and not just IslamoNazi terrorists.
Jaibones on July 16, 2008 at 10:56 AM
I think Tom Clancy’s last book at least one part right…
Meet the teeth.
juanito on July 16, 2008 at 10:58 AM
Recent shelling and attacks in Kashmir and northern India has shown that since Mushy has been handcuffed the PAK military is turning a blind eye to the militants(best case) or outright helping them.
India wants no war, but she is not going to sit back while the Islamists are given a green light by the PAKs.
Limerick on July 16, 2008 at 11:03 AM
Thanks!
I remember the story, but I never heard of it spun any way other than an “errant US airstrike” on innocents. If those troops were indeed in on the ambush, then things are far worse than I thought.
Can you imagine Obama as President, if Pakistan falls and we go to war with the new Islamist government? (shudders at the tought)
Just Imagine FDR trying to “understand the deeper reasons” for Hitler’s policies…
pseudonominus on July 16, 2008 at 11:04 AM
CHARGE!!!!!!!
Griz on July 16, 2008 at 11:04 AM
Quote from terrorist. “Virginians, I thought you said virgins”.
Johan Klaus on July 16, 2008 at 11:07 AM
The whole “invading a sovereign nation” meme can be defused by publicly showing the video on national television of Pakistani troops attacking our forces in Afghanistan. Our forces (and those of our allies) have been defending the Afghan government since 2002, so if Pakistani soldiers attacked our soldiers in Afghanistan, any US attack on their bases is retaliation, not an invasion.
But we need to make it clear to the Pakistani government that we have no intention of invading all of Pakistan, but only the area where the attacks came from, which are not under the control of any sovereign nation. If their forces are willing to control that area and take on the terrorists, we’ll pull out.
I wonder what Bush will say about this! He needs to say something…
Steve Z on July 16, 2008 at 11:10 AM
Good thing we supported those moronic elections out there …
Meanwhile, everyone seems to like to skip over the really important point about Pakistan – eventually we are going to have to get control of their nuke arsenal and industry. This was my first thought on 9/11 and remains one of the most important moves that has yet to be made in this war on terror.
progressoverpeace on July 16, 2008 at 11:16 AM
How complicated is this? There are only two possible scenarios, either:
1) The Pakistani government IS NOT in control of the region, and they need outside forces to contain it, or
2) The Pakistani government IS in control of the region and the Kunar incursion was an act of war.
And either way, the US will have to move in.
logis on July 16, 2008 at 11:22 AM
Anyone getting a feeling that some leftwing politician is going to show up in Pakistan on a ‘Peace Mission’?
Nancy Pelosi is probably having her gubmint jet gassed up to go there right now.
Nahanni on July 16, 2008 at 11:26 AM
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