Ready to invade Pakistan?
posted at 8:30 am on July 16, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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The cross-border attack in Kunar this weekend has apparently galvanized the US and NATO into taking action in the opposite direction. The Times of London reports that the US has massed troops along the border in order to strike into areas essentially ungoverned by the Pakistanis, targeting Taliban and al-Qaeda bases. The Pakistanis warn of the consequences, but Afghanistan and India claim that their intelligence service has sided with the terrorists:
US troops in Afghanistan massed close to the border yesterday for a possible attack on al-Qaeda and Taleban bases in the lawless North Waziristan tribal belt in Pakistan.
Reports from the area said that hundreds of Nato troops were airlifted across the mountains from the village of Lowara Mandi, which has been an important base for cross-border attacks in Afghanistan. Heavy artillery and armoured vehicles were also being moved into position.
The deployment followed a claim by the Afghan Government on Monday that the Pakistani Army and its spy agency had become “the world’s biggest producers of terrorism and extremism”. The Pakistani Foreign Ministry accused Kabul of creating an “artificial crisis to satisfy short-term political expediencies”. …
Western commanders say there has been a marked increase in cross-border infiltration in the past few months, fuelling the insurgency in Afghanistan. Nato troops have clashed with Pakistani units along the South Waziristan border.
The West has just about concluded that the government in Islamabad has become useless as an ally in fighting terrorists. They have lost all control of the FATA regions along the border, and according to Afghanistan and India, their intelligence service is working for the enemy. The attacks coming out of Pakistan have begun including Pakistani armed forces, which led to the US killing a number of them as they ran back across the border after a failed ambush. Pakistan protested the deaths, but the US released video showing soldiers fleeing American gunships in Afghanistan — where they didn’t belong.
The big question will be whether Pervez Musharraf can keep Pakistani nukes from falling into terrorist control once we start crossing the border. US action will almost certainly radicalize the population, and the next election might produce a highly pro-Islamist government as a result. That risks the worst-case scenario: terrorists gaining control of nuclear weapons. India would have to react to the threat of a potential nuclear exchange in that case, and the US would face extreme pressure to act — which could start a regional war in south Asia.
On the other hand, the Pakistanis cannot maintain their own sovereignty now in the FATA. American operations in the region might convince the tribes that siding with terrorists over Islamabad is too dangerous for their continued health. It could work to force the regions back to the control of the Pakistani Army in the long run, and in the short run we can destroy the terrorist infrastructure that has expanded along the border. It’s a big gamble, but the status quo is unacceptable.
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Did anyone miss the part…”the ISI are working for the terrorists”?
The Pakistani government are the creators of the Taliban in the time of the beloved Benazir Bhutto for those who have forgotten or never knew their history.
I know it is the view here at HA that only some weirdo freaks are Jihadists (a banned word, I know), and that Pakistan is a democracy just like ours, and that we can find someone to trust there. Well, you will just have to find out the most difficult way I guess. Pakistan and every manjack Muslim in it are your enemies.
I would guess a number of Paki nukes are already off the official inventory.
I keep thinking of that odd tale months back out of the Land of the Pure. A few of Pakistan’s Nuke experts were playing as Geologists looking for Urainium in the boondocks and taken by the Taliban. It did not make sense at the time but perhaps it made sense to some who knew what it signaled when they read it.
But after all this potential incursion is probably more bluster than intent.
BL@KBIRD on July 16, 2008 at 11:27 AM
I’d say secure the nukes, then destroy the industry (if they go islamist).
Destroy all industry and infrastructure in the whole region. Give them the 7th century world they crave. Let’s see them wage their jihad while starving. After the inevitable de-population, India could re-colonize the area with its peaceful, democratic society.
pseudonominus on July 16, 2008 at 11:29 AM
Maybe we shouldn’t have funded the Taliban in the first place?
Or chased them into Pakistan?
Oh, well…close enough for government work.
alphie on July 16, 2008 at 11:34 AM
It’s going to happen one way or another. Usually it’s preferred to have controlled burns in these situations, but …
progressoverpeace on July 16, 2008 at 11:43 AM
Let’s go get those a$$holes RIGHT NOW!!!
Quit this pussy-footing around already.
omnipotent on July 16, 2008 at 11:43 AM
A couple of points…
First, this is a NATO operation, under NATO command and control. For this to happen there would have had to be some type of meeting or high level talks about this, with all the NATO member states aggreeing. To do this with a successful information blackout is almost impossible
This would be a NATO invasion of a sovereign Nation, not just US.
If true, this points out a real shift in Europeon politics, which will have tremendous repurcusions not just here, but worldwide. Europe has not been projecting International power for a generation… perhaps they are finally waking up.
Romeo13 on July 16, 2008 at 11:43 AM
Yep, that right there is one bad-azz weapons platform! When that gunship is deployed there are usually only two types of jihadi’s left, dead ones and wounded ones with a pant load of poop and urine!
Liberty or Death on July 16, 2008 at 11:44 AM
I know it’s tough to wrap your head around alfster, but alliances aren’t abstractions. They’re practical things, look at FDR’s (D) alliance with Stalin, or the democrat party’s alliance with Hugo Chavez (D).
Now, when the USSR, sensing Jimmy Carter’s (D) weakness, invaded Afghanistan, the nation was in no mood to fight the USSR on that battlefield. Our leaders identified the local opposition, and funded them.
Any blowhard can second guess, and you’re no exception alfster, but in my opinion, we did a sensible thing by funding the Afghanistan resistance. I suppose if you sided with the USSR you would disagree with that strategy, and maybe that’s the real basis of our disagreement?
jeff_from_mpls on July 16, 2008 at 11:46 AM
The French and the Danes recently sent additional SF troops to the country. The Danes are the only country in NATO to supply more money and more military then they have been asked for.
Limerick on July 16, 2008 at 11:48 AM
No doubt our grandkids will be cleaning up the messes the U.S. military is making in Iraq and Afghanistan now, jeff?
Who could have predicted that giving money and arms to radical groups could ever lead to problems down the road, eh?
alphie on July 16, 2008 at 11:50 AM
This is EXACTLY why we have these devastating wildfires here in California.
Because of Smokey the Bear and the Dept. of Forestry, we have not had controlled burns in our forests for decades, so we get massive overabundance of overgrowth and deadwood. A spark sets it off, and the conflagration rages out of control.
Exactly like the muslim world…
pseudonominus on July 16, 2008 at 11:53 AM
“Who could have predicted that giving money and arms to radical groups could ever lead to problems down the road, eh?”
So we destroyed the Soviet Union and created a few thousand fanatical hill bandits in one of the most remote, impoverished, god-forsaken part of the world.
Sounds like a good deal to me.
Doc Mike on July 16, 2008 at 11:56 AM
Iraq is a mess?
It’s in better shape than the dark blue inner cities of America.
I think your grandkids are more likely to get killed in a democrat controlled US city than in the Middle East.
History will judge you and your ilk most unkindly.
jeff_from_mpls on July 16, 2008 at 11:57 AM
Yes you are correct. Iran should not be allowed to supply Hezbollah and Hamas, nor North Korea Iran.
Limerick on July 16, 2008 at 11:58 AM
Like I said, theres been a definite shift in Europe… I’m just not sure how far its gone.
Its one thing to defend someone who is asking for help (Afganistan), quite another to invade a sovereign NUCLEAR ARMED Nation.
My guess? Europe and the US have told Mushy that they will get off his back about reforms and elections, if he lets them go pacify this area…
Win for US and NATO as it gives us international cover, win for Mushy as he may very well loose the next set of elections unless he can reagain control.
Romeo13 on July 16, 2008 at 12:05 PM
OT: anyone heard from funkychicken lately?
Limerick on July 16, 2008 at 12:08 PM
Americans who rely on the U.S. military for a regular welfare check may judge my “ilk” unkindly, jeff.
The rest of us may figure out that bribing and arming radical groups is just creating future make work jobs for people who can’t make it in the private sector.
alphie on July 16, 2008 at 12:13 PM
Oh, please. War is war. If you want to look for where things went wrong with the Taliban and Pakistan, you have to go 1996, when they took over Afghanistan – and Bin Laden arrived in the area. That was the point at which pressure needed to be applied. But it wasn’t. And not much after, either. What happened during the Soviet war was nothing compared to what happened during the 90’s. You seem to have a problem with perspective.
progressoverpeace on July 16, 2008 at 12:26 PM
Why would you be concerned about “make work”, since it is the forte of the Left?
OldEnglish on July 16, 2008 at 12:28 PM
So, you are the president of a medium-sized developing country. You live in a bad neighborhood and can’t get no respect from the people next door, so you decide that you need to get yourself some nukes. You hire a guy to be the head of your nuclear development program. You give him funds, people, resources and political support. He assembles a team, and buys, begs, borrows, trades and steals the materials and technology needed to build the bomb, and one day — bang, he’s done it. You are now the prez of a nuclear power.
So naturally, you exalt your guy, he is declared a hero, people name their firstborns after him, the 72 stunningly beautiful virgins are on call at his house 24/7, he can even get front row tickets to the national cricket championship playoffs. But one day you find out that, for a nice sum of money, he has taught the Lybians, the Iranians and the North Koreans how to build nukes. When confronted, he admits what he did and apologizes to the nation on live TV. What do you, the president do?
a) You have the guy arrested and tried for treason.
b) You send your goons over to the guy’s house and have him and his entire household mowed down.
c) You pardon the guy. You express your confidence to the press that he is not going to divulge nuclear secrets to genocidal dictators again and, smiling, you say “let him keep the money.”
I hope you picked c) because that’s exactly what went down in Pakistan four years ago. That country scares me.
factoid on July 16, 2008 at 12:46 PM
Your precisely right, Ed. But the size of the gamble is irrelevant. This action is necessary for the stabilization of the region. Looks like the fight has transfered back to Afghanistan.
Troy Rasmussen on July 16, 2008 at 12:48 PM
If the pakistani army is with the enemy then what does that mean? We need to find a way to secure the nuclear weapons and kill as many terrorists in those remote areas as possible. Despite the cult of death that islam is, the fear of death is the only thing that will sway those villagers and their leaders. Ignoring the problem is going to result in a nuclear radically islamic pakistan. The Indians will not wait around to see what happens.
peacenprosperity on July 16, 2008 at 1:02 PM
.
So let’s make it illegal to contribute to democrats, Soros-funded 527s, and to give alphie a paycheck.
.
Right_of_Attila on July 16, 2008 at 1:22 PM
Whatever happens, or whatever direction the fighting takes at the Pakistani border, the USA will be made out to be the bad guy no matter what (possibly even intentionally). We’ll end up taking all the heat and projected responsibility for any and all repercussions, up to and including retaliation across the globe.
So if we’re going to cross the border and kick some ass, we better go in there and go for broke and not stop until the mission is actually ACCOMPLISHED. We, and NATO, had damn well better lay waste to any and all terrorists and their enclaves as well as make damn sure that any and all nukes are accounted for and SECURED… or there will be hell to pay for far longer than any of us here will be drawing breath.
SilverStar830 on July 16, 2008 at 1:23 PM
We never aided “the Taliban.” But we did, years before, supply some of the mujahideen in Afghanistan when they were fighting the Russians, using Pakistan as the vehicle. Contrary to the oft-stated belief, we didn’t actually supply Bin Laden, though he was there. He had his own Saudi money conduit. Of course we were still supplying Bin Laden’s side of the conflict over the Soviet Union.
Communism looks pretty tame in retrospect.
Beagle on July 16, 2008 at 1:51 PM
Let me take that last comment back. Communism killed over a hundred million people last century, funded countless guerilla wars, and still produced gulags and summary exections in places like China, Cuba, and North Korea. Not to mention having tenure in all our major universities.
Beagle on July 16, 2008 at 1:59 PM
They are pouring out of Pakistan.
jdun on July 16, 2008 at 3:02 PM
This can only benefit Mitt Romney…..
TBinSTL on July 16, 2008 at 3:16 PM
“Let’s Roll.”
ronsfi on July 16, 2008 at 3:18 PM
“Our soldiers are stupid and lazy.” – alphie
CliffHanger on July 16, 2008 at 3:24 PM
You vile loathesome maggot, why don’t you name these “people who can’t make it in the private sector”?
Filthy coward.
I did four years in the Marines, and you know how many liberals I served with? One or two. Why don’t liberals serve, alphie boy? Because you are empty creatures without souls. While you are enjoying your hollow abstraction of a life, better men than you are hauling your load. Enjoy your free ride, creep.
pseudonominus on July 16, 2008 at 3:30 PM
Killin’ people gives you a soul, pseudo?
How Christian of you…
alphie on July 16, 2008 at 3:38 PM
Yeah, everyone in the military wakes up everyday and kills, Alphie.
You truly are lost.
pseudonominus on July 16, 2008 at 3:39 PM
Lazy? Do you think that you could make it through USMC boot camp? And our soldiers are smart enough to make the enemy fight when and where we want, ahd our military is kicking ass.
Johan Klaus on July 16, 2008 at 4:00 PM
Bad mouthing Christians now, huh?
Johan Klaus on July 16, 2008 at 4:02 PM
*Emphasis mine
This is basically self-evident to the about 1.8 billion people who live on the sub-continent (India, Afghanistan, and Pakistan…among others). How we’re all just coming to this conclusion now, is beyond my understanding.
Even I’ve mentioned it on here before and I am sure I mentioned it on my site as well.
PresidenToor on July 16, 2008 at 4:16 PM
Lazy? Do you think that you could make it through USMC boot camp? And our soldiers are smart enough to make the enemy fight when and where we want, and our military is kicking ass.
Johan Klaus on July 16, 2008 at 4:20 PM
… I hit enter too soon…
But what some people don’t really understand is that there are about 160 million Pakastanis in a country a little less then the size of Texas and about 30 million in Afghanistan.
That’s an insane amount of crazy people in really close proximity to each other… in all seriousness that’s a bad thing.
PresidenToor on July 16, 2008 at 4:20 PM
SHIITE…roll the dice!
byteshredder on July 16, 2008 at 4:26 PM
alpo, good to see you’re just as brain dead as ever.
N. O'Brain on July 16, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Who could have predicted that giving money and arms to the Soviet Union could ever lead to problems down the road, eh?
Synapses clogged up there, alpo?
N. O'Brain on July 16, 2008 at 4:29 PM
My thought would be they’re movin’ these troopers south for the incursion.
J_Gocht on July 16, 2008 at 7:47 PM
You do not invade Pakistan with 300 troops. You might reinforce border posts with that number however. I suspect that in the wake of this week’s attack it was seen that bolstering existing posts was advisable and that is why you see these troops moving.
KW64 on July 16, 2008 at 10:27 PM
Hindsight? If we want to go down that road, then maybe your mom should have aborted you. That way we wouldn’t have had to deal with your childishness.
Oh well. I guess (to her) having you seemed like a good idea at the time. I’m not aware of any better criterion to make decisions by.
At least you won’t have to worry about any of your own grandkids having to clean up any messes. Unless you get off the liberal, spineless bandwagon, you’ll stay neutered.
Squiggy on July 17, 2008 at 6:22 AM
Americans who rely on the U.S. military for a regular welfare check may judge my “ilk” unkindly, jeff.
alphie on July 16, 2008 at 12:13 PM
Wow, there we go again. This is exactly why I can’t stand Liberals. The disdain, the hatred for anyone stupid enough to join the military. America’s true heroes. America’s true warriors, and this lil piece of scum says they rely upon the U.S. military for a regular welfare check…
Personally, I’m done with this alphie creature.
Keemo on July 17, 2008 at 8:04 AM
I find this rather curious…when BHO suggested he might consider this sort of action much earlier; posters here and McCain’s campaign referred to such action as totally irresponsible. It would appear the merit of some proposals or action is based on where it is “invented” and not its actual intent?
Perhaps the cross-border attack in Kunar has generated enough mental heat for planners to toss political implications or considerations aside; if that’s the case I find their reasoning very flawed.
It was and has been my experience to never react out of anger or revenge. Anger clouds the mind.
“Revenge is a season in hell.” Sun Tzu
J_Gocht on July 17, 2008 at 8:24 AM
J_Gocht on July 17, 2008 at 8:24 AM
—-
J,
Perhaps it’s just moving supply closer to demand. Cross-border terrorist fucktards demand killing, NATO forces happy to supply it.
The less distance the fucktards have to travel, the less mess to clean up later.
Mew
acat on July 17, 2008 at 10:54 AM
Like everyone else, God has a thing for Marines too.
Alden Pyle on July 17, 2008 at 3:48 PM
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