Welcome to HotAir, glad to have you, based on what I’ve seen so far.

misterpeasea on July 15, 2008 at 3:38 PM

Yeah. I’ve been here for a couple of years, but haven’t been able to visit HA much for a couple of months due to work and other responsibilities. I didn’t recognize your name, or your style. Suffice it to say, “sorry” for the misunderstanding. And, pleased to make your aquaintance!

I think the /sarc tag should be applied liberally these days. The loony lefties and the pro-illegal immigration hacks are so prevalent these days, I don’t know who’s serious or just yanking chains anymore :/

DF:

And Obama wants to nationalize health care and make that available to illegals.

Terrye on July 15, 2008 at 8:42 PM

I’m betting we can stop Obama’s health care plan like we stopped Clinton’s, but I don’t know if we can stop a radical Republican president, since electing McCain will send a clear message that it’s open season on immigration, while electing Obama simply means it’s open season on Republicans.

I am saying you do not need the internet to make your feelings about issues like border security known to your representatives. For years, people just kind of blew it off, and then it became a huge issue overnight and a lot of these same people blamed everyone else for ignoring it. Almost half the illegals in this country live in California. And they did not all get there overnight either…….

Terrye on July 15, 2008 at 8:40 PM

Terrye,

You live in Indiana, and I live in Kentucky, similar states demographically, so I agree this became an issue “over night” to us, but there are many groups in the border states that have been fighting this battle for years, even before the 86 amnesty. It became an “over night” issue when people in our states woke up to sounds of Spanish coming from their rooftop, since the roofing crew showed up early that morning.

Before that, it was always a joke to us. We vaguely knew what was happening in Texas, California, and Florida, but on that particular morning it quit being a joke, and, of course, all politics are local.

Terrye on July 15, 2008 at 8:40 PM

Fair enough Terrye. But just because you haven’t heard about it doesn’t mean that those who live in these states haven’t been complaining about it to our reps. It’s just that until a large portion of a constituency complains then it just usually falls on deaf ears. Many people haven’t thought about the impact of illegal immigration until recently because it is human nature to go along the business of life and not notice problems until they are too big to do anything about.

Now the deal with California? People haven’t been calling it “The Land of Fruits and Nuts” for the last 30 years or so because of the avocadoes and the almonds.

And Obama wants to nationalize health care and make that available to illegals.

You cannot have open borders and a welfare state. I am not completely against a migrant worker program, but not while the 14th amendment is being interpreted as it currently is, and while we have massive entitlement programs.

DFCtomm on July 15, 2008 at 8:15 PM

Exactly.

I am saying you do not need the internet to make your feelings about issues like border security known to your representatives. For years, people just kind of blew it off, and then it became a huge issue overnight and a lot of these same people blamed everyone else for ignoring it. Almost half the illegals in this country live in California. And they did not all get there overnight either. But that state is not exactly famous for its draconian and hardline policy. It is not just the interior states that have failed to take this issue as seriously as they should have.

I am not dissing people who think this is a problem, my complaint is with the people who ignored the problem until they saw a political advantage in pursuing it. My problem is with the people who say they want to deal with the problem, but who would rather sit out the election and let someone like Obama win than go with the impure McCain.

Terrye on July 15, 2008 at 7:47 PM

Are you joking? Why do we need the internet? You can’t be that dense. Considering that almost every line of mass communication is controlled by left-wing commies, we need the internet because it is a way for us to communicate and get information to each other.

Unless you are 21 it’s been a while since you’ve lived in OK or visited the Texas bordertowns. Where English used to be a “second language” it is now a non existent language. Also, the demographics I sited were in reference to Bloomington and Indiana in general. Nothing to do with your personal Native-American heritage.

I used to think you were just a decent person who just didn’t get it but now I think you’re motives may be more sinister.

By the way: I AM VOTING FOR MCCAIN. I WILL HATE MYSELF IN THE MORNING BUT I DON’T WANT TO HELP OBAMA WIN.

Every person that is against illegal immigration is not sitting out the election. Although, I think people that are have every right to do so. I cannot in good conscience do it myself.

My point is that McCain won the nomination because the Republican voters voted for him. They put him in there. If they wanted someone like Tancredo they would have voted for him instead.

It’s important to realize that uninformed Republicans lead by the media gave him the nomination. One poll question I saw after a primary had a majority of republicans saying they favored McCain to handle the illegal alien issue, but another question on the same poll showed that a majority wanted illegal immigration stopped. How do you resolve those two results? There is only one answer, the majority of republicans got their information from the MSM. I remember one debate immigration was banned as an issue, so how could Tanc, or Duncan Hunter address their largest issue under those circumstances.

And why do you need the internet? That border was open forever. It was open before there was even a Las Vegas. It was open before there was subsidized water. If the people of the region wanted to make it an issue, they could have, long ago. And I am not saying it is not an important issue either. But for heavens sake when California and New Mexico support Democrats year after year inspite of the fact that they are border states it is obvious this is not an issue that everyone agrees on. One thing is for sure: Obama will not be a strong advocate for border security. He has made that plain. McCain may not be everything you want, but he won the nomination fair and square.

Terrye on July 15, 2008 at 7:47 PM

The border may very well have been open forever, but we didn’t have a welfare state forever. I read recently that half of the European immigrants who came in the great wave went home for various reasons. They went home because we weren’t a welfare state. There is also a quote from a relatively famous economist that states You cannot have open borders and a welfare state. I am not completely against a migrant worker program, but not while the 14th amendment is being interpreted as it currently is, and while we have massive entitlement programs.

I am disappointed in you too. I actually thought all that stuff about securing the borders might be for real. But I guess not.

But then we have big cities like Gary and Indpls. So that kind of makes up for it.

I don’t kiss butts.

My point is that McCain won the nomination because the Republican voters voted for him. They put him in there. If they wanted someone like Tancredo they would have voted for him instead.

And why do you need the internet? That border was open forever. It was open before there was even a Las Vegas. It was open before there was subsidized water. If the people of the region wanted to make it an issue, they could have, long ago. And I am not saying it is not an important issue either. But for heavens sake when California and New Mexico support Democrats year after year inspite of the fact that they are border states it is obvious this is not an issue that everyone agrees on. One thing is for sure: Obama will not be a strong advocate for border security. He has made that plain. McCain may not be everything you want, but he won the nomination fair and square.

where were all these outraged hardliners a decade ago?
Terrye on July 15, 2008 at 5:03 PM

Terrye, we were here in the border states but no one gave us a platform. Without the internet we probably still wouldn’t have one since the media controls everything. That being said, let me explain something to you.

After the 1986 Amnesty, things progressively got worse as millions of new illegals flooded into the country. Now those of us who were on the frontlines were very disturbed by it. Forward about a decade or so and the problem started slowly reaching other areas. For the most part, the illegals stayed in the shadows and therefore most of America was blissfully unaware of the problems. For about the last 5-7 years or so the illegals have become brazen, in-your-face radicals demanding their “rights” while waving Mexican flags on TV during marches. Couple that with the Mexican government advocating to them how to break our laws and all of a sudden it becomes a major issue to a lot of people that previously weren’t aware of it. This is why there are a lot of “hardliners” being outraged over this situation.

Do you understand now?

Also, Terrye, you should be kissing our butts for trying to stop this invasion before it reaches your little area in rural Indiana. I checked your demographics and you live in a pretty homogenous (95% white, non-hispanic, English speaking) area, so you are no expert on what illegal immigration can do to a community.

why does McCain think that tens of millions of illegal immigrants, many of whom engage in some form of document fraud (credit card theft, Social Security number fraud, Identity theft, etc), and who come from left-wing countries immersed in a cultural background of big government socialism, will… all of a sudden, with the stroke of a presidential signing pen, …convert into card-carrying Republicans who want the government off their backs and taxes lowered?

ColtsFan on July 15, 2008 at 5:57 PM

It has baffled me. Sometimes it’s tough to get where McCain is coming from. I think that he wants to be seen as the “Great Liberator” and the illegals are the easiest to use. That’s all I can figure, since I don’t think that he is really a globalist (though he has some quirky, globalist positions, too). Bush is clearly a globalist (it seems to be a big family thing) so I understand his reasoning, but McCain only makes sense to me as above. I don’t think McCain thinks, or cares really, about the actual costs to the US for his glory. That’s how I figure it.

Your points about the governmental structures/educations these illegals are coming from (and that they still, generally, support) can’t be emphasized enough.

Please tell us the story about how your representative, Hostettler, who was tough on immigration, lost his reelection bid to a Democrat.

And don’t forget to not mention the fact that the Democrat ran to his RIGHT on immigration.

I love that story. And I love the dishonesty with which you tell it. Over and over and over and over and over.

This is how McCain apologists advocate for McCain. Dishonestly.

This was warned to all during the shamnesty debate. People said that McShame would tear the GOP apart. If he had any sense of decency, at all, McShame would have pulled out of the primaries at that point, knowing that, even if he won, he would kill the GOP. Now you are complaining about the GOP dying. Anyone with a brain could have predicted this exact situation if you had posed the hypothetical of McShame winning the primary, back during shamnesty.
progressoverpeace on July 15, 2008 at 5:41 PM

Agreed.

My question is:

why does McCain think that tens of millions of illegal immigrants, many of whom engage in some form of document fraud (credit card theft, Social Security number fraud, Identity theft, etc), and who come from left-wing countries immersed in a cultural background of big government socialism, will… all of a sudden, with the stroke of a presidential signing pen, …convert into card-carrying Republicans who want the government off their backs and taxes lowered?

Illegal immigration and the resulting 7 amnesties since 1986 mean more future Democrat voters.

I do not support McCain on this issue. I feel he isn’t trustworthy on it. I know the rhetoric, but history doesn’t bare out for McCain on this.

I completely disagree that our entire culture depnds on an unsecure border. Some (myself included) would argue that our culture is in danger of being overtaken because of this very problem.

Well thus far, McCain has won without the Tancredo vote.

Not really. He fooled some people in the primaries. Hell, he even fooled Tancredo! But that was the primary.

But that is not my point really. My point is that many of the people who hate McCain on this issue are willing to let someone like Obama win without even trying to stop it.

We have no effect on Obama or those who vote for him. We only have an effect on those who think that we are voting for them.

They will put a lot more time and energy into railing against McCain.I think this will be a close election and if it is like 2000, it could make a difference.

Terrye on July 15, 2008 at 5:31 PM

This was warned to all during the shamnesty debate. People said that McShame would tear the GOP apart. If he had any sense of decency, at all, McShame would have pulled out of the primaries at that point, knowing that, even if he won, he would kill the GOP. Now you are complaining about the GOP dying. Anyone with a brain could have predicted this exact situation if you had posed the hypothetical of McShame winning the primary, back during shamnesty.

Well thus far, McCain has won without the Tancredo vote. But that is not my point really. My point is that many of the people who hate McCain on this issue are willing to let someone like Obama win without even trying to stop it. They will put a lot more time and energy into railing against McCain.I think this will be a close election and if it is like 2000, it could make a difference.

So, it seems completely hypocritical, even childish to me that people who profess such a fanatical devotion to sealing off thousands of miles of border because after all our entire culture depends upon it…can just sit back and let this liberal Democrat win.

And I never said this issue was not important, at least I certainly never meant to imply or state that. I am saying it is not the only issue as far as most Americans were concerned, if it were, they would be voting differently.

I’m sorry Terrye, I gotta say something about this.

I could have sworn (though I admit, I maybe mistaken) that I have seen comments from you, most certainly from other hardcore McCainiacs that McCain didn’t NEED “border advocates” to win the election.

Additionally, you say this issue isn’t important, yet made the statement above.

Sorry, I have a job. I could not come play before.

As for storm troopers, where were all these outraged hardliners a decade ago?

Oh yeah, they did not say squat about it all back then so I guess they were open border fanatics.

Hey, but just think. After you get done helping Obama win and he has his super majority, he can do whatever he wants with that border. He can even fire the terrorists ICE agents who are picking on the illegals and all the phone calls from the right won’t stop him.

I heard over and over again what a great issue this would be for conservatives in 2006. It was not. It backfired.

But keep up the good work.

I think they might finish the wall, but there will always be problems to deal with. They won’t be able to just build a wall and forget it.

As for whether this administration is serious about the border, Bush has done more to secure the border than any president in history. He has done more to secure the border than the pure conservative Newt Gingrich ever did.

Is satire acceptable? Satire is what it is; who do these idiots think that they are to decide “if it is acceptable”? Acceptable to whom?