IBD poll: Drill here, drill now
posted at 8:07 am on July 15, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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A new poll commissioned by Investors Business Daily finds overwhelming majorities in favor of increased drilling and domestic production of oil. By a 3-1 margin, Americans identify runaway fuel prices as a bigger problem than global warming, and they want action taken immediately to address it. Even ANWR is on the table, although not by much:
The poll of 920 adults taken last week shows that 73% think “fuel prices at the pump” are a bigger problem for the country than climate change, the new term for global warming. Only 23% say climate change is more important.
The sentiment prevails across the board — among men and women, old and young, rich and poor, and Republicans, independents and Democrats, two-thirds of whom say gas prices are more important.
Support for offshore drilling and oil shale development is also broad-based, with the former favored by 64% of respondents and the latter by 65%.
The results suggest President Bush has strong public support as he puts pressure on Congress to back more exploration for oil.
While the numbers for drilling in the OCS and in the interior for shale transcend partisan and gender divisions, drilling in ANWR receives a bare plurality, 47-43. That indicates a political risk in pressing for drilling at that point, especially among women and working-class adults. The split occurs across partisan lines, and women oppose it 46-39.
The numbers indicate that McCain may have the right idea by keeping ANWR off the table. Including it now might give opponents a wedge to obstruct the rest of the drilling efforts and unnecessarily handicap efforts in the near term. The better strategy would be to leave ANWR off the table for the moment and ensure that the other initiatives succeed. Drilling proponents have a great hand to play in an election year without ANWR, and that option can get addressed at a later date.
President Bush took a big step yesterday in lifting the executive order banning off-shore drilling. Nancy Pelosi took a big step, too — backwards. As IBD notes, instead of looking for long-term solutions, she’s demanding that the US deplete its Strategic Reserve:
Despite polls showing Americans in favor of drilling more oil from America’s huge untapped supplies, Pelosi won’t allow it. She just wants to empty our Strategic Petroleum Reserve for a short-term fix to get through Election Day.
It’s an irresponsible suggestion, signaling not only an ignorance of how the economy works but also a willingness to place the nation at risk in the case of emergency.
Last Tuesday, Pelosi sent a letter to President Bush urging him to release a “small portion” of the nation’s 706 million barrels of strategic-reserve oil to bring down prices. Regardless of how one feels about whether reserves should be held at all, two big problems stand out with Pelosi’s tiny demand.
The proposal will leave us with little or no strategic reserve in case of war or natural disaster in the oil-producing regions. The Strategic Reserve doesn’t exist so that politicians can artificially lower gas prices before an election. It exists to protect the military capabilities of the nation in time of distress. Imagine, if you will, the outcry if Bush had started selling off the Strategic Reserve in September 2004 to lower prices before his re-election contest with John Kerry.
Second, as IBD points out, Pelosi has admitted that the issue is one of supply. That won’t get solved by selling off the SR; in fact, it will make the problem worse later, when the US has to refill the SR. The only solution for a supply crisis is to find more long-term supply sources — and we have massive resources here in the US that can fill that role.
The Democrats have painted themselves into a corner. Their anti-production policies have led the nation into crisis, and they could still lose this election if they continue to obstinately block long-term solutions to it. Instead, they’re offering gimmickry.
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unseen,
So you claim to be an expert in how to find any piece of information on the internet, no matter how esoteric or how old?
If not, then we can add hypocritical to the ever growing list of your mental and emotional shortcomings.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 3:01 PM
From my quick 5 minute research it appears to be a voluntary ban of the oil companies.
the orginal law was passed in 1973 it was repealed in 1995. They tried to be reinstated in 2001 but failed.
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 3:14 PM
Just for shit and giggles Mark what’s your views on buying drugs in Canada and on immigration?
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 3:18 PM
This coming from a man who can’t provide links to back up what he is talking about?
Good Lord, if you are going to talk about something at least provide something, then having someone having to try to drag it out of you.
upinak on July 15, 2008 at 3:23 PM
2601.8 BILLIONs of dollars in foreign held US Gov Debt in 2007?
Quick Wiki search…
2007 9008 billion or 36.8% of GDP… total debt held both internaly and externaly…
so… somthing like 9% of GDP is owed to other “foreign investors” just by the US Gov.
Interesting stuff…. no wonder the dollar is in trouble.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_currency
but the above link is what I’m actualy talking about…
Foreign countries, and banks, sit on LARGE amounts of dollars, which they use for international trading.
Romeo13 on July 15, 2008 at 3:23 PM
……. maybe, just maybe, the Liberal Left and Enviornmental Whackos have gotten just what they deserve.
Seven Percent Solution on July 15, 2008 at 3:30 PM
North Slope, not North Shore, my bad
This article mentions Clinton ending the ban in passing.
http://arcticcircle.uconn.edu/NatResources/miller1.htm
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 3:31 PM
Naaaa, they need to suck wheat grass thru a straw first!
upinak on July 15, 2008 at 3:31 PM
Why Republicans are not HAMMERING this home every time they open their mouths is beyond me.
Troy Rasmussen on July 15, 2008 at 3:32 PM
Written and sponsered via “Green Peace”. A Enviromental Wacked out Propoganda machine funded by “Big” oil. Good Lord!
You are seriously making an ass our of your self!
upinak on July 15, 2008 at 3:33 PM
Buying drugs from Canada, is complicated because Canada forces US companies to sell drugs at a deeply discounted rate, otherwise Canada will steal the patents and give them to Canadian companies.
So what you are buying is in essences stolen goods. Any drugs made by Canadian companies from Canadian patents, go for.
Anyone who wants to move to the US should be allowed to, provided they do not have a criminal background, are not a security risk, and perhaps, don’t have serious medical issues. (If the US didn’t have the partially socialized health care system today, I would drop this requirement, with the exception of communicable diseases.)
I’d also eliminate the war on drugs if it were in my power.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 3:35 PM
You are a Ron Paul supporter, aren’t you.
upinak on July 15, 2008 at 3:36 PM
Romeo13 on July 15, 2008 at 3:23 PM
shhh….don’t explain how all those dollars could come on to the market at once and destroy the foex market or any other bad thing that could be caused by the “free trade” system. it has made so many millioniares out there so it must be good.
The poor slob that lost his job? well he can just go back to school and relearn a trade. I want to see how fast the “free traders” turn protectionist when CEO jobs start to be exported. Why pay someone 100 million when an Indian will work for $10 million? It is coming soon. already the shareholders are demanding a say in CEO pay. As soon as the shareholders get that power the post will go to the lowest bidder with the best qualifications. And that bidder will not be Americians
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 3:36 PM
So because an article is written by Greenpeace, everything in the article is a lie.
And you want other people to take you seriously????
I didn’t say I endorsed the article, I just said that it mentioned in passing, Clinton ending the ban.
If your an expert on digging up 30 year old articles, that pre-date the internet, on congressional debates, then good for you. If that’s the attitude your going to take, then screw you, I’m through trying to prove myself to you.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 3:39 PM
Ron Paul’s connection with reality is to tenuous to gain my support, but I am a Libertarian.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 3:40 PM
in the short term its a win, until the competing businesses are gone, then they can raise prices at will….kind of like the OPEC and the oil…we don’t drill, they do, and we pay whatever price they say.
its a disaster for us.
right4life on July 15, 2008 at 3:41 PM
unseen,
Why would the holders of US dollars want to destroy the US economy. That would make the dollars that they hold worthless.
As to the poor slob who has to find a new job. Welcome to the real world. Nobody’s job is quarenteed, not even the CEO’s.
If you think you are entitled to keep your job for life, then no wonder you like unions so much.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 3:42 PM
you think purely in economic terms. you should read the prince, by Machiavelli
right4life on July 15, 2008 at 3:44 PM
Ah, the old predatory pricing leading to monopoly arguement. Too bad for you that was proven to be impossible 40 to 50 years ago.
If a company goes out of business, and the would be monopolist tries to raise his prices, then there is nothing to prevent new competitors from jumping into the market.
Monopolies are only possible when govt is used to prevent competitors from starting.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 3:44 PM
When talking about the economy, what better frame of reference to use?
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 3:45 PM
LOL, already been there…
Myself and my partner, who started a software firm quit when the business side decided to take Chinese investment, which gave them control of the company. Takeover was led by a Daughter of a Polibureu member…
and it was security software… think automated data forensics on the fly…
Company luckily failed when we left, and we were able to retain control of the source code…
Romeo13 on July 15, 2008 at 3:46 PM
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 3:35 PM
A true free trader would be in favor of buying drugs from canada and open borders.
since you are not then there are issues and conditions that you place on trade. since the gov of Canada lowers the cost of drugs that is a tariff in another name.
since the USa government sponsers medical care etc their is a tariff on labor cost. Therefore you are picking and choosing which industries you support and which you do not.
there is no “free trade” there.
As a non reality concept the idea of free trade is great and I would support it if it was reality. But reality it is not and is instead a smoke screen to enrich the lives of some, shift wealth from one country to another, decrease poverty around the world while at the same time decreasing our standard of living.
If the world had no enemies, no differences in laws, regulations etc again free trade would be great. since it does our trade policies should promote our standard of living, protect us from our enemies and help our allies. It should export our ideals, our views and our founding priciples. that was how free trade was started after WW2 to help rebuild our allies and to stop the red menace. It has morphed since then to help not our country but the world. And it has enabled the large concentration of wealth to the hands of the few. As the hands help by labor have been weakened and those of management have been strengthened.
Sure it has some benefits but it also has some negatives which are being felt more and more as we continue down its path because the countries we are now having free trade with are not on the same boat in the regards to freedom and economic policy.
Nationalism may be dead in the WEst but it is alive and well in places like China, India and Islam. Failure to take that into account will be the death knell of this country
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 3:47 PM
because to our ‘friends’ the chinese, the ‘economy’ is just another phase of their war against us.
if you can’t see that you really are clueless.
right4life on July 15, 2008 at 3:48 PM
As he was winding down his days of dissoluteness and reprobation, the 4th century Christian philosopher Augustine of Hippo, commonly referred to as St Augustine, begged for just a few more rounds of divinely sanctioned debauchery. “Lord,” he cried out to the heavens, “Give me chastity and continence, but not quite yet.”
Currently, as a result of the ever-worsening crises in US housing finance, a crisis being illustrated by the absolute devastation of the shares in the US government’s semi-private semi-public secondary market mortgage wholesalers Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and in the government seizing control of mortgage lender IndyMac in one of the largest bank failures in American history, Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke must be raising his gaze to the heavens for a similar entreaty.
“Lord, give me credibility as, and the ability to be, an inflation fighter – but not quite yet.”
The history of the financial markets since the rescue of Bear Stearns last March 15 is similar to that of the fictional Amity Island in between the first Jaws movie, released in 1975, and its sequel, Jaws 2, from 1978.
At first, after the initial shark had been killed, after Bear Stearns had been saved by aggressive Federal Reserve intervention, everything seemed OK. The markets rallied into mid-May. I would imagine that the souvenir shops selling shark-themed toys and back scratchers on Amity’s beaches did likewise. But, then, the markets rolled over: the Dow Jones Industrial Average, after topping out close to 13,200 on May 19, has since lost more than 2,000 points, or 15%. To borrow from the tagline of Jaws 2, “Just when you thought it was safe to go into the stockmarket … ”
Of course, the real danger laying in wait to devour the markets continues to be the crisis in US housing values, as it has now become obvious that the entire edifice of the US financial markets over the past few years has been built on a foundation just about as sturdy as a sandcastle on one of Amity’s beaches – the inflated value of US real estate.
It had been thought that the crisis in subprime mortgages, the root of the financial crises, would leave Fanny and Freddy untouched, since both their respective charters forbid the two enterprises, called government-sponsored entities (GSEs), from investing in them. But it is truly indicative of just how pernicious and metastizing this crisis is that, after devastating all that it has come in contact with for almost a year and a half now, it now strikes deep at the heart of a target previously thought immune.
No one who has wealth or assets in any form, in any currency, is safe – you might as well consider yourself as being at least knee-deep in the shark infested waters of the financial markets.
- Julian Delasantellis (Asia Times, Jul 16, 2008)
MB4 on July 15, 2008 at 3:49 PM
unseen,
Why would the holders of US dollars want to destroy the US economy. That would make the dollars that they hold worthless.
Because the benefit they would obtian from doing so would far outweight the cost. Would you throw 2 trillion dollars away if you could takeover a 14 trillion yearly economy?
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 3:49 PM
That would be fine, right up until governments get involved.
Problem is that the economic system is not a pure system. It has to deal with the real world problems of politics, and laws put in place by unfreindly governments.
Money is one method projecting power… and one that our government is not longer equiped to use.
Romeo13 on July 15, 2008 at 3:50 PM
unseen,
As I said, the issue of drugs from Canada is made more complicated because the drugs being sold are in essence, stolen property. The fact that you don’t care about the source of the drugs, just that they are cheaper for you says a lot about your value system.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 3:51 PM
If a company goes out of business, and the would be monopolist tries to raise his prices, then there is nothing to prevent new competitors from jumping into the market.
Monopolies are only possible when govt is used to prevent competitors from starting.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 3:44 PM
bingo you are starting to see. governments being human endevors are faced with the human emotions. One of those vices is bribes. When you have wealth concentrated in the hands of your enemies that wealth will be used to buy your submission.
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 3:52 PM
really? then why have an FTC? why have laws against monopoly at all?? who ‘proved’ this? post the link, this should be good.
again really? so where are all those american TV makers nowadays?
china’s next be export will be inflation, and we have nowhere else to go for their goods.
and the barriers to entry in many industries, like autos, are prohibitive.
right4life on July 15, 2008 at 3:52 PM
Makes no difference.
For the second time, I’ve asked you to name these laws.
The only way money projects power, is when you use it to bribe someone.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 3:53 PM
laughable. tell that to the chinese who use our dollars to buy Russian weapons to kill us with.
right4life on July 15, 2008 at 3:55 PM
And just how do they use this “weapon” against us? By selling us cheap goods? If that were a weapon, Wal-Mart would be undisputed masters of the planet.
Just because I don’t get distracted by mindless paranoias.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 3:55 PM
MB4 on July 15, 2008 at 3:49 PM
so true
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 3:55 PM
The only way money projects power, is when you use it to bribe someone.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 3:53 PM
You mean when China bought off clinto to open the satillite business to them?
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 3:56 PM
man, your ability to think through what you write is not strong, is it.
We predicated this part of the discussion on the assumption that the other party has just destroyed the US economy. If the US economy is destroyed, then it most certainly would not be worth 14 trillion.
Regardless, how would they take over the economy? They don’t own any of the companies in it. They don’t have political control over any region in the US.
The two trillion they posses of US currency, forget it, they just made it worthless.
come on unseen, think for a minute before blathering.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 3:58 PM
just told you, by using our dollars to buy Russian weapons to kill us with.
yeah the chinese are our friends!!! so are the North Koreans, no big deal about that money couterfeiting, the Venezualens, and the Cubans!!!
they all just love us, and want whats best for us….
sure.
right4life on July 15, 2008 at 3:59 PM
So you honestly think it will be possible to buy an entire govt without the general population finding out, and tossing out said govt?
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 3:59 PM
unseen
I am almost transfixed by the insights contained in your comments. I will read them all in detail later.
MB4 on July 15, 2008 at 3:59 PM
They don’t need to use our dollars to do that.
And why do you think impoverishing the US will make us better able to fend off foreign threats?
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:00 PM
you need to think about the fact that the russians, the chinese, and many other countries don’t like us, and want to replace us as a superpower.
and useful idiots like you want to sell them the rope to hang us….Lenin was right.
right4life on July 15, 2008 at 4:00 PM
Sigh… know anything about the incandescent light bulb fiasco?
OUR Government says we soon will not be able to use them anymore… but… the replacements cannot be made in America economicly because of OUR own environmental and labor saftey laws.
Or say… beef and food imports into Japan. No free trade there… or Mexican Gas… or Iranian Gas… or Chinese gas… all show that some governments will not ALLOW true free trade…
And if you don’t beleive that Money is a form of power besides bribery? Theres no use talking to you… Elections have been bought before… money allows you a military… money buys goods, and can help build infrastructure… and where you invest that money gives you power.
Done here… not worth it…
Romeo13 on July 15, 2008 at 4:01 PM
really? then why do they do just that? where do they get the money without us?
so not buying cheap chinese goods will impoverish us?? do you think not having cheap mexican labor will impoverish us??
please.
right4life on July 15, 2008 at 4:02 PM
As I said, the issue of drugs from Canada is made more complicated because the drugs being sold are in essence, stolen property. The fact that you don’t care about the source of the drugs, just that they are cheaper for you says a lot about your value system.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 3:51 PM
Have you not been paying attention. I am against reimpotation of drugs because I think the Amerrican drug industry is a net good and should be protected. I am also agains illegal labor because I think the american labor market with its higher costs is a net good and should be protected. I think that American manufacturing is a net good and should be protected for many reasons (one being to keep the standard of living high for the less intelligent among us, I do not want a permentant underclass in this country that leads to war and rebellions, 2 to ensure that we are capable of producing arms to protect us and 3 to ensure that our lives are in our hands.)
While I am for the concept of free trade I understand that the present system is anything but free and that our enemies are using the system against us. and our elites are using the system to fatten their wallets at the expensse of ours. In this case the needs of the many outweight those of the few.
So I am against the present trade policies whatever you call them. the oil trade is one of the biggest examples of this. We have the ability to stiop that trade. It will be more expensive for the oil companies to pump the oil here but the greater good theory is on full display as we are now over the barrel and our economic destiny is no longer ours to control.
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 4:04 PM
I strongly encourage you to research the congressional debates that occurred prior to the passage of these laws. They were brought not on behalf of the weak, but on behalf of the powerfull, who sought to use the laws to get rid of competitors.
You have evidence that any of the myriad of TV makers are attempting to charge monopolistic rates? With the price of TV’s falling and the quality rising rapidly, such an argument would be a tough sell.
Remember, you are the one who claimed that the would be monopolists, once they had driven US companies out of business, would jack up the prices. So why are we paying less today, then we did when the US dominated the industry.
The US lost out for one reason, the Japanese, and now the Koreans make a better product, for less money.
China’s going to start counterfeiting US dollars?
.
Oh come on, you can’t possibly be that clueless. There are dozens of companies, outside of China that sell the products in question.
Not really, there are 10’s of thousands of organizations with enough cash to buy up bankrupt US manufacturing plants and start making cars.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:07 PM
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 3:58 PM
buy low….if the economy of the USa goes down who is going to pick up the slack for the world’s 6 billion people? humans activity will not come to a stop. After the destruction there will plenty of oppurtunity to buy what assets they want and take leave what they don’t.
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 4:08 PM
And as I said, they don’t need our dollars in order to do that. So you end up making Americans poorer, with no increase in security.
They are not our friends, but they are not our enemies either. For the most part the Chinese want to be rich.
Do you check under your bed every night?
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:10 PM
Won’t happen as long as their economies stay as crappy as they are.
Unless idiots like you destroy our economy in a vain effort to keep other countries from becoming wealthy.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:11 PM
Done here… not worth it…
Romeo13 on July 15, 2008 at 4:01 PM
starting to think the same thing….better things to do today..then educate someone that appears to have no understanding of history, geopolitical events, and national security. The sad part is the reubl elites all think the same way. then the repubs wonder why they lose elections.
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 4:12 PM
unseen,
So you like buying poorly made, over priced products, because you think it makes you better off.
Right.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:12 PM
Haven’t read everything, but FOX is on w/ IBD, who is calling for Nan’s resignation. Says her idea to drain the SR is PURE POLITICS. Feckless to reckless is what they called her; saying she is now a danger.
Awesome.
LickyLicky on July 15, 2008 at 4:13 PM
Romeo13,
When you find yourself allied with someone who is an admitted socialist, isn’t it time to re-examine your positions?
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:13 PM
Won’t happen as long as their economies stay as crappy as they are.Unless idiots like you destroy our economy in a vain effort to keep other countries from becoming wealthy.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:11 PM
You have not been paying attention. their economics are no longer crappy. because of your great “free trade” policy.
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 4:13 PM
It was arch conservative Barry Goldwater, who once said of the Soviets,
We should sell them anything that they can’t throw back at us.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:15 PM
How much does it suck that we have a candidate who agrees with the Democrats and disagrees with the vast majority of Americans on this?
If Republicans didn’t have to tip-toe around McCain’s stupidity on global warming, they could be out there bashing the crap out of the Democrats on this. They might conceivable regain control of Congress on this one issue.
But no.
Mav is a global warmist, so of course he thinks global warming is a bigger issue than silly ol’ gas prices.
Sickening.
misterpeasea on July 15, 2008 at 4:15 PM
So you like buying poorly made
most American goods I have found are anything but poorly made. As far as expensive? If the jobs that still paid high salaries were still around than those products wouldn’t be as expensive for us now would they?
Now the junk that china makes. you know the ones with lead, the ones that kill dogs, etc those are worth every penny.
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 4:16 PM
you are divorced from reality. those other countries are becoming wealthy, at our expense.
just like the illegal aliens.
soon the US will be a third world country, and then you can tell me about the wonders of free trade.
fool.
right4life on July 15, 2008 at 4:16 PM
unseen,
You have not been paying attention,
There economies have been improving, they are still crappy, because they have been adopting capitalistic policies, including free trade. Free trade that includes every country on the planet, not just the US.
Why do you think that halting trade between the US and China would hurt the Chinese economy that much? Are you so conceited that you think the US is the only source of high quality products?
Free trade is a win/win. The free’er the trade,the better.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:17 PM
with someone who is an admitted socialist
So when did I admit to being a soicalist? that’s news to me.
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 4:18 PM
does it hurt to be so stupid? that little threat to nuke LA was just a joke, right? and all those ship-killing missiles…thats to protect them against the taiwanese…
oh well since YOU said it, it must be true…..
delusional.
right4life on July 15, 2008 at 4:19 PM
The stuff made by union companies has, for the most part, been of lower quality than can be bought from elsewhere. That’s why the Japanese ate the luch of the American auto companies.
You think that the way to get rich is to pay people more than their labor is worth. And you wonder why, when given a choice, people often choose not to buy American.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:19 PM
When you declared your support for multitudes of socialist programs.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:20 PM
right4life,
Other countries have been getting wealthier, but not at our expense.
The world is not a fixed pie.
Get over your paranoia that somewhere, somebody might have a better life than you do.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:21 PM
We should sell them anything that they can’t throw back at us.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:15 PM
yeah and it was Ronald Reagan who sold them faulty software that casued a massive natural gas explosion. that caused their economy to tank. and Rondal Reagan that went to miltary buildup thant further caused their economy to tank. It was the economic collapse of the Soviet Union that lead to the wall being tdestroyed. that in itself should be a lesson to you.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4394002
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 4:21 PM
And how often have US citizens, and even members of the govt threatened to nuke other countries?
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:22 PM
Well Reagan did joke about launching missiles in 5 minutes.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:23 PM
get over your delusional stupidity that china is our friend.
right4life on July 15, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Any proof for that claim?
The soviet economy tanked, in part, because they followed the kind of economy that you advocate.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:24 PM
why don’t you tell me, since you think you know everything?
right4life on July 15, 2008 at 4:25 PM
that chinese general wasn’t joking.
right4life on July 15, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Please point to the post where I stated that China is our friend. Are you so paranoid that you actually divide the world into two classes? Friend and enemy, and everyone must be in one camp or the other?
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Gotta take a work break right now, but from what I have read he seems like a nationalist to me.
MB4 on July 15, 2008 at 4:26 PM
thats the way the world is. just cause you wish it to be otherwise doesn’t make it so.
right4life on July 15, 2008 at 4:26 PM
How would you feel if the Chinese military decided to help Mexico reclaim most of the Southwest?
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:27 PM
not in so many words, but your insistence that our trading with them is for our good, and they have no bad intentions against us.
right4life on July 15, 2008 at 4:27 PM
So you actually believe that everyone who isn’t a friend, is an enemy.
I truely feel sorry for you.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:27 PM
I must remember that you are truely paranoid, and make allowances for that.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:28 PM
I wouldn’t be surprised at all. did you ever wonder why they have all these large trading ports in the carribean and Panama? and they’re helping the cubans drill for oil?
its cause they’re our friends…sure.
right4life on July 15, 2008 at 4:28 PM
I don’t need any reminders to know you’re a clueless idiot.
take off the tin-foil and get back on your meds. wacko.
right4life on July 15, 2008 at 4:29 PM
I agree, we are right there, just miles away…but why throw away goodwill, we can give the oil companies enough for a couple of years, then ANWR is a cakewalk.
Look, it will only take about 1-2 years to get oil out of the Gulf, and other area where we have infrastructure, it is the “triage” way of looking, at the same time we begin planning for these other “hot” areas. Withing 2 years, oil is pumping, prices are down, we may not need to use this “chit”, if we do then we will have shown drilling is safer then ever.
If I had it my way, drill in my backyard, but there is a large voting contingent that we need to carry and win over a very hostile congress.
right2bright on July 15, 2008 at 4:29 PM
You think that the way to get rich is to pay people more than their labor is worth
It is you that thinks that American labor is not worth the price being paid. It is due to governmental policies that artifical lower labor prices that is the problem. It is amazing that american wealth as a nation grew along with the wages paid for the first 90 years of the last century but somehow that working policy no longer works. the needs of the company now trump the needs of the nation. since when did the creating wealth trump natinal security.
The people that think they rule the world IMO are going to relize they don’t and it will not be a pretty picture.
It is the ideas and freedoms of this nation that enable the companies to grow. If you destroy your mother’s milk you will wither on the vine.
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 4:32 PM
I have never seen so much paranoia in such a little package.
To start with, the reason I asked, was because the general inquestion made the comment in response to a threat by the US to intervene in any conflict between China and Taiwan. The Chines (wrongly) view Taiwan as a break away province.
So his comment was in response to, in his view, the US threatening to intevene militarily in an internal matter. That’s not the same as just declaring one day, out of the blue, a desire to nuke the US.
As to the rest of your rant, yes, you truely do that everying China does, is solely to hurt the US.
How do you ever manage to get to sleep at night, being so fearfull of everything?
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:34 PM
Any proof for that claim?
that caused their economy to tank.
The soviet economy tanked, in part, because they followed the kind of economy that you advocate.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:24 PM
I guess you didn’t bother to read the link so here :
In January 1982, President Ronald Reagan approved a CIA plan to sabotage the economy of the Soviet Union through covert transfers of technology that contained hidden malfunctions, including software that later triggered a huge explosion in a Siberian natural gas pipeline, according to a new memoir by a Reagan White House official.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4394002
and more:
Reed writes that the pipeline explosion was just one example of “cold-eyed economic warfare” against the Soviet Union that the CIA carried out under Director William J. Casey during the final years of the Cold War.
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 4:35 PM
Ah yes, the old govt is controlled by rich fat cats and we must take what is ours from it view of world events.
As I said, a socialist through and through.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:35 PM
Now that qualifies as an un-impeachable source.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:36 PM
Gotta take a work break right now, but from what I have read he seems like a nationalist to me.
MB4 on July 15, 2008 at 4:26 PM
More I believer in the consitution and the concepts entombed in that then a “my country right or wrong” type.
If our trading partners have the same basic beliefs then I am all for enriching their lives and ours thru trade. If not than not. No matter the extra savings etc.
Since the American documents are one of a kind in the annuals of history and since they have led to the highest stand of living in the hostory of the world and the most powerful nation in the world then I think our trade policies should hold these above profit motive.
Capitalism did not make this country great. The founding cdocuments did. England and other western nations have practiced capitalism yet never rose to the power that we have. the difference is in the concepts of freedom and limite gov contianed in those pages.
T
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 4:41 PM
To start with, the reason I asked, was because the general inquestion made the comment in response to a threat by the US to intervene in any conflict between China and Taiwan. The Chines (wrongly) view Taiwan as a break away province.
Again you show your lack of knowledge. tawian is where the goverment of Chang hi sheik fled during too during the communist revolution. As far as China is concerned it is the last outpost of their war. It would be like General Lee fleeing to The Virgin Islands and the English telling Lincoln it could not continue the fight.
In fact many people think that since Taiwan was kept free by the USA the seeds of capitalism could be planted in China.
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 4:46 PM
Ah yes, the old govt is controlled by rich fat cats and we must take what is ours from it view of world events.
As I said, a socialist through and through.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:35 PM
How you got that from my comments is beyonf me. reaching alittle aren’t you.
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Now that qualifies as an un-impeachable source.
MarkTheGreat on July 15, 2008 at 4:36 PM
The result was the most monumental non-nuclear explosion and fire ever seen from space,” he recalls, adding that U.S. satellites picked up the explosion. Reed said in an interview that the blast occurred in the summer of 1982.
yeah like that isn’t hard to prove.
KGB confirms the explosion. Sats took pictures of it. Real hard to prove. there. at the time the Russians were pushing to expand natural gas to Western europe cementing hard currency trade. Reagan denied them that lever leving their economy to twist in the wind.
Economic warfare is as old as military warfare. Learn some facts and history.
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 4:53 PM
Oil prices fell harder than they have in 17 years Tuesday, as fears that record fuel prices are spreading broad economic pain exacerbated the third big sell-off in just over a week.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080715/oil_prices.html
bush’s lifting the ban and the polls showing that the USA is waking up had something to do with that also.
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 4:57 PM
Patriotism is supporting your country [and it's constitution] all the time, and your government [and it's policies] when it deserves it.
- Mark Twain
Actually I think I am detecting more Goldwater than Twain there, so I took the liberty of inserting a little Goldwater.
MB4 on July 15, 2008 at 5:00 PM
Yep, the question is an polical/economic one of IS trade with no restriction in the US’s best interest, when our trade “partners” do not play by the same rules.
I’m personaly in favor of protecting AMERICAN interests in the market place… the idea that all this free trade has helped America is going to go the way of the Global Warming theory… its going to get killed by the data and reality.
Romeo13 on July 15, 2008 at 5:14 PM
the idea that all this free trade has helped America is going to go the way of the Global Warming theory… its going to get killed by the data and reality.
Romeo13 on July 15, 2008 at 5:14 PM
just hope it happens before we are destroyed.
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 5:17 PM
MB4 on July 15, 2008 at 5:00 PM
goldwater, reagan, jackson, adams, jefferosn, washington, and other all rolled together.
It is a shame IMO to have all these great men and women that have learned these basic turths the hard way and not use their lessons learned.
The new world order is doomed to fail because it does not take in the basic human emotions and instead trys to impose from above rules regulations, trading policies etc without a framework of basic human rights and limits on the governments.
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 5:21 PM
Hmmmm…. thinking back….
Was Ross Perot correct all along? Is a NAFTA outlook really good for the American worker? Are we finaly seeing the results of shipping jobs and infrastructure overseas?
Romeo13 on July 15, 2008 at 5:45 PM
Romeo13 on July 15, 2008 at 5:45 PM
I think it has been proven it isn’t good for the American worker. what remains to be seen is that is is good for america.
Personally I think that one can not be good and the other good. In other words as GM said in the 1950’s what’s good for Gm is good for America. Here too what’s good for the American worker is good for America. It takes a balance to achieve a great country. A balance been capital and labor. So that all enjoy the furits. Whenever you have an imbalnace between the two in history bad things have happened.. rebellions, revolutions, poverty, loss of freedoms , world wars etc.
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 5:57 PM
and with that I’m out. have a good night all
unseen on July 15, 2008 at 5:58 PM
No, you are an idiot. And after leaving work for almost 3 hours and coming back to the SS, I have come to the conclussion you really have no clue WTF you are talking about. Readiong reports and actually being in the field are two totally different items!
upinak on July 15, 2008 at 6:05 PM
The anthropogenic global warming scam is a much bigger problem than either of the items on the list. Global warming isn’t a problem at all and the price of petroleum products is a second class problem compared to the scam.
In one or two decades we will again be worried about global cooling just as we were two decades ago. If we get a really big volcano eruption it could be less than a decade. It is also time to again worry about loosing the ozone layer by flying airplanes at high altitude. This is not the same as the chemical ozone hole problem which appears to be real. Hanson, the Goracle’s pet NASA man, was involved in the cooling and airplane misconceptions as well as the heating one.
burt on July 15, 2008 at 10:08 PM
.
Thanks for the link – that book is going on my wish list.
Think_b4_speaking on July 16, 2008 at 12:37 PM
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