McCain’s remarks to La Raza; Update: McCain tells La Raza that “borders must be secured”
posted at 2:45 pm on July 14, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Update II: The Washington Post reports that McCain took a couple of tough questions from the La Raza audience — and the responses might surprise a few people:
But the questioner continued to press McCain, asking whether he would address border security and immigration reform in a single bill. “One single bill?” he asked.
At that point, McCain reverted to the position he adopted earlier this year during the GOP primary, where he suggested the country should take on the question of border enforcement before addressing questions like guest workers and amnesty for undocumented workers. “One single, comprehensive bill — but first we have to assure the American people that the borders are secure,” he said, adding that if politicians fail to do that, “then we don’t pass the legislation.”
After a couple of questions a La Raza official suggested the senator had to leave, but McCain — who joked that in light of the “tough questions” he should have stuck to his prepared speech — insisted he would take a couple more. At one point he even tossed his microphone into the audience, at which point the questioner asked whether McCain would commit to ending the “inhumane raids” that separate illegal immigrants from their babies and small children.
“When your forefathers came, there was no illegal-legal. Everyone was welcome at Ellis Island,” the man asserted.
But McCain refused to rule out the idea of raids on illegal immigrants, saying, “The United States has to have secure borders sir, and that’s necessary, even if you disagree.”
That doesn’t sound like McCain was interested in a complete panderfest — and it gives more credence to his borders-first position.
Original post follows …
=================
The McCain campaign has released John McCain’s speech to La Raza today, one day after Barack Obama characterized ICE raids as a form of terrorism against American communities. The speech focuses more on economics than it does on immigration policy. At least half of the speech hits themes such as tax policy, free trade with Latin America, and education policy, emphasizing pro-growth strategies rather than the top-down redistributionist policies Obama offers.
At the end, he says the following about immigration:
Let me address one other issue important to all of us. As you know, I and many other colleagues twice attempted to pass comprehensive immigration legislation to fix our broken borders; ensure respect for the laws of this country; recognize the important economic contribution of immigrant laborers; apprehend those who came here illegally to commit crimes; and deal practically and humanely with those who came here, as my distant ancestors did, to build a better, safer life for their families, without excusing the fact they came here illegally or granting them privileges before those who have been waiting their turn outside the country. Many Americans did not believe us when we said we would secure our borders, and so we failed in our efforts. I don’t want to fail again to achieve comprehensive immigration reform. We must prove we have the resources to secure our borders and use them, while respecting the dignity and rights of citizens and legal residents of the United States. When we have achieved our border security goal, we must enact and implement the other parts of practical, fair and necessary immigration policy. We have economic and humanitarian responsibilities as well, and they require no less dedication from us in meeting them.
He also added this in response to charges Obama made at the La Raza conference yesterday:
I spoke recently at both the NALEO and LULAC conferences, as did Senator Obama. I did not use those occasions to criticize Senator Obama. I would prefer not to do so today. But he suggested in his speeches there and here, that I turned my back on comprehensive reform out of political necessity. I feel I must, as they say, correct the record. At a moment of great difficulty in my campaign, when my critics said it would be political suicide for me to do so, I helped author with Senator Kennedy comprehensive immigration reform, and fought for its passage. I cast a lot of hard votes, as did the other Republicans and Democrats who joined our bipartisan effort. So did Senator Kennedy. I took my lumps for it without complaint. My campaign was written off as a lost cause. I did so not just because I believed it was the right thing to do for Hispanic Americans. It was the right thing to do for all Americans. Senator Obama declined to cast some of those tough votes. He voted for and even sponsored amendments that were intended to kill the legislation, amendments that Senator Kennedy and I voted against. I never ask for any special privileges from anyone just for having done the right thing. Doing my duty to my country is its own reward. But Ido ask for your trust that when I say, I remain committed to fair, practical and comprehensive immigration reform, I mean it. I think I have earned that trust.
So McCain will tell La Raza that border security has to come first. He also put Obama to the left of Ted Kennedy and painted him as the real chameleon on immigration.
Most of the speech has been embargoed until delivery, so I will update this post at that time with the full text. Michelle, of course, has already posted her translation ….
Update: Full speech added:
Thank you, Jane, for that kind introduction. Thank you, also to the leadership of the National Council of La Raza, and its board of directors. I’m very pleased to be with you again to discuss some of the issues in this campaign that most concern you. As you know, this isn’t my first address to La Raza. I’m proud to have worked hard over the years with many friends here and elsewhere to make sure Americans of Hispanic heritage are appreciated for their contributions to the prosperity, security and culture of the United States, and to improve opportunities for your continued success, not for your sake alone but for the benefit of the entire nation. I also want to thank La Raza’s former CEO, Raul Yzaguirre, for being here today, and for the privilege of over twenty years of friendship and counsel he has so generously given me. And to my fellow Arizonans here today, who have given me the great honor of serving you in the United States Senate, thank you from the bottom of my heart. With your votes, advice and encouragement you have helped me to be a better public servant and a better American, and I am in your debt.
There are several issues I want to discuss today, but let me begin with the one that concerns all Americans the most — our economy. Over 400,000 people have lost their jobs since December, and the rate of new job creation has fallen sharply. Americans are worried about the security of their current job, and they’re worried that they, their kids and their neighbors may not find good jobs and new opportunities in the future. To make matters worse, gas is over $4 a gallon and the price of oil has nearly doubled in the last year. The cost of everything from energy to food is rising.
I have a plan to grow the economy, create more and better jobs, and get America moving again. I have a plan to reform government, achieve energy security, and ensure that healthcare and a quality education are affordable and available for all. I believe the role of government is to unleash the creativity, ingenuity and hard work of the American people, and make it easier to create jobs.
At its core, the economy isn’t the sum of an array of bewildering statistics. It’s about where Americans work, how they live, how they pay their bills today and save for tomorrow. It’s about small businesses opening their doors, hiring employees and growing. It’s about giving workers the education and training to find a good job and prosper in it. It’s about the aspirations of the American people to build a better life for their families; dreams that begin with a job.
So how are we going to create good jobs? Let’s start with small businesses, which create the majority of all jobs. A recent report says small businesses have created 233,000 jobs so far this year while other sectors are losing jobs. Small businesses are the job engine of America, and I will make it easier for them to grow and create more jobs. There are two million Latino owned businesses in America, many of them started by Latinas. The first consideration we should have when debating tax policy is how we can help those companies grow and increase the prosperity of the millions of American families whose economic security depends on their success.
It is a terrible mistake to raise taxes during an economic downturn. Increasing the tax burden on Americans impedes job growth, discourages innovation and makes us less competitive. The many small business owners who pay individual tax rates would take strong exception to the idea that keeping them low helps no one but the wealthiest Americans. Taking more money from small businesses deprives them of the capital they need to invest and grow and hire. Jobs are the most important thing our economy creates. When you raise taxes in a bad economy you eliminate jobs. I’m not going to let that happen, I will keep taxes low and cut them where I can. For those of you with children, I will double the child deduction from $3500 to $7000 for every dependent, in every family in America. I will reduce the estate tax to fifteen percent, so parents who have spent long years working hard to build a business, and provide a decent living to t heir employees, can leave the product of a lifetime of labor and love to their children.
La Raza runs one of the largest housing counseling programs in the country that has helped tens of thousands of Latinos become homeowners with secure mortgages. But millions of Americans have been hurt by the mortgage crisis and falling home values, and many in the Hispanic community have been especially hard hit. I want to help people who genuinely need assistance in these tough times, not speculators and lenders who contributed to this mess and didn’t follow the basics of good business practice. I am committed to making sure families who want to hold onto their home have a chance to do so. My HOME plan allows families who need help to apply — either at their local Post Office or online — for a new, guaranteed, fixed-rate, 30-year mortgage that will allow them to remain in their home, and raise their family with dignity.
To get our economy on track again, and create new and better jobs, we need to compete more, not less, in the global economy. We can’t build walls to foreign competition, and we shouldn’t want to. America is the biggest exporter, importer, producer, manufacturer, and innovator in the world. That’s why I reject the false virtues of economic isolationism. Any confident, competent country and its government should embrace competition - it makes us stronger - not hide from our competitors and cheat our consumers and workers. We can compete and win, as we always have, or we can be left behind. Lowering barriers to trade creates more and better jobs, and higher wages. It keeps inflation under control. It makes goods more affordable for low- and middle-income consumers. Ninety-five percent of the world’s consumers live outside the U.S. Our future prosperity depends on opening more of these markets, not closing them.
I recently traveled to Colombia and Mexico because I understand how vitally important it is to the prosperity and security of our country to strengthen our trade, investment and diplomatic ties to other countries in our hemisphere. I have often traveled over the years to Central and South America, and I have learned our relationships there are as important, if not more important, as any relationships we have in the world. It is the reason why I’m an unapologetic supporter of NAFTA, the Central American Free Trade Agreement, and the Colombian Free Trade Agreement, and why I believe a hemispheric free trade agreement is a worthy and necessary goal whose time has come. And while it is surely not my intention to become my opponent’s scheduler, I hope Senator Obama soon visits some of the other countries of the Americas for the first time. Were he to do so, I think he, too, would see that stronger economic bonds with our neighbo rs and the closer friendships they encourage, are a great benefit in many ways to our country. Colombian President Uribe, a man of courage and vision, has risked much to combat the narco-terrorists of FARC for the sake of all peoples in this hemisphere. His recent leadership in freeing Americans held hostage for years should earn him the respect and gratitude of all Americans. And we should emulate his statesmanship by passing the trade agreement Colombia and the United States have negotiated, and which both countries would greatly benefit from.
I know that not all Americans have prospered in the global economy. And for those who, through no fault of their own, have lost their job to foreign competition, I have proposed a comprehensive reform of our unemployment insurance and worker retraining programs. We will use our community colleges to help train workers for specific opportunities in their communities. And for workers of a certain age who have lost a job that won’t come back, if they move rapidly to a new job we’ll help make up the difference in wages between their old job and the new one.
In the global economy what you learn is what you earn. Today, studies show that half of Hispanics entering high school do not graduate with their class. By the 12th grade, U.S. students in math and science score near the bottom of all industrialized nations. Many parents fear their children won’t have the same opportunities they had. That is unacceptable in a country as great as ours. In many schools, particularly where people are struggling the hardest, the situation is dire, and I believe poses the civil rights challenge of our time. We need to shake up failed school bureaucracies with competition; hold schools accountable for results; strengthen math, science, technology and engineering curriculums; empower parents with choice; remove barriers to qualified instructors, attract and reward superior teachers, and have a fair but sure process to weed out incompetents. I’m a strong believer in charter schools. La Raza has hel ped establish 50 new charter schools and the results they are producing are very encouraging. Hispanics work hard and sacrifice a lot because their most cherished dreams are the ones they hold for their children. You understand the importance of early childhood development and the active role parents must play in their children’s education to make sure they graduate on time and with an excellent opportunity to live happy and prosperous lives. You deserve a greater say in deciding how your children are educated, and I am committed to making sure you do.
Let me address one other issue important to all of us. As you know, I and many other colleagues twice attempted to pass comprehensive immigration legislation to fix our broken borders; ensure respect for the laws of this country; recognize the important economic contribution of immigrant laborers; apprehend those who came here illegally to commit crimes; and deal practically and humanely with those who came here, as my distant ancestors did, to build a better, safer life for their families, without excusing the fact they came here illegally or granting them privileges before those who have been waiting their turn outside the country. Many Americans did not believe us when we said we would secure our borders, and so we failed in our efforts. I don’t want to fail again to achieve comprehensive immigration reform. We must prove we have the resources to secure our borders and use them, while respecting the dignity and rights of citizens and legal residents of the United States. When we have achieved our border security goal, we must enact and implement the other parts of practical, fair and necessary immigration policy. We have economic and humanitarian responsibilities as well, and they require no less dedication from us in meeting them.
Several years ago, the leading newspaper in my state published an article putting faces on the tragic human costs of illegal immigration, and I would like to briefly quote from it:
“Maria Hernandez Perez was No. 93. She was almost 2. She had thick brown hair and eyes the color of chocolate.
“Kelia Velazquez-Gonzales, 16, carried a Bible in her backpack. She was No. 109
“John Doe, No. 143, died with a rosary encircling his neck. His eyes were wide open.”
We can’t let immigrants break our laws with impunity. We can’t leave our borders undefended. But these people are God’s children, who wanted simply to be Americans, and we cannot forget the humanity God commands of us as we seek a remedy to this problem.
I spoke recently at both the NALEO and LULAC conferences, as did Senator Obama. I did not use those occasions to criticize Senator Obama. I would prefer not to do so today. But he suggested in his speeches there and here, that I turned my back on comprehensive reform out of political necessity. I feel I must, as they say, correct the record. At a moment of great difficulty in my campaign, when my critics said it would be political suicide for me to do so, I helped author with Senator Kennedy comprehensive immigration reform, and fought for its passage. I cast a lot of hard votes, as did the other Republicans and Democrats who joined our bipartisan effort. So did Senator Kennedy. I took my lumps for it without complaint. My campaign was written off as a lost cause. I did so not just because I believed it was the right thing to do for Hispanic Americans. It was the right thing to do for all Americans. Senator Obama declined t o cast some of those tough votes. He voted for and even sponsored amendments that were intended to kill the legislation, amendments that Senator Kennedy and I voted against. I never ask for any special privileges from anyone just for having done the right thing. Doing my duty to my country is its own reward. But I do ask for your trust that when I say, I remain committed to fair, practical and comprehensive immigration reform, I mean it. I think I have earned that trust.
Let me close by expressing my respect and gratitude for the contributions of Hispanic-Americans to the culture, economy and security of the country I have served all my adult life. I represent Arizona where Spanish was spoken before English was, and where the character and prosperity of our state owes a great deal to the many Arizonans of Hispanic descent who live there. And I know this country, which I love more than almost anything, would be the poorer were we deprived of the patriotism, industry and decency of those millions of Americans whose families came here from other countries in our hemisphere. Latinos are among the hardest working most productive people in our country. The strength of your religious faith and the strength and closeness of your families are a great force for social stability and individual happiness. In my recent visit to Mexico, I visited the Shrine of the Virgin of Guadalupe, and was greatly mov ed by the experience, and came to appreciate all the more your deep devotion to the God who created us and loves us all equally. I will honor your contributions to America for as long as I live. We would not be the special country we are without you.
I know many of you are Democrats, and many of you would usually vote for the presidential candidate of that party. I know I must work hard to win your votes, but you have always given me a respectful hearing, and I appreciate it. I know many of you were disappointed and hurt by those who used the debate on immigration last year, not to respectfully debate the issue, as most did, but to denigrate the contributions of Hispanics to our great country. I denounced those insults then, and I denounce them today. My friends, you know me. One of my proudest achievements as a politician is to have won 75 percent of the Hispanic vote in Arizona in my last re-election. I believe I’m the only member of the Senate to have twice won your Congressional Leadership Award, a distinction I am also very proud of. Senator Obama is a fine man, and an inspiring public figure. All Americans should be proud of his success. I also greatly admire Sena tor Hillary Clinton, and value her friendship. She, too, would have been a very worthy opponent. But I intend to compete for your votes by continuing to earn your trust.
When I was in prison in Vietnam, I like other of my fellow POWs, was offered early release by my captors. Most of us refused because we were bound to our code of conduct, which said those who had been captured the earliest had to be released the soonest. My friend, Everett Alvarez, a brave American of Mexican descent, had been shot down years before I was, and had suffered for his country much more and much longer than I had. To leave him behind would have shamed us. When you take the solemn stroll along that wall of black granite on the national Mall, it is hard not to notice the many names such as Rodriguez, Hernandez, and Lopez that so sadly adorn it. When you visit Iraq and Afghanistan you will meet some of the thousands of Hispanic-Americans who serve there, and many of those who risk their lives to protect the rest of us do not yet possess the rights and privileges of full citizenship in the country they love so well. To love your country, as I discovered in Vietnam, is to love your countrymen. Those men and women are my brothers and sisters, my fellow Americans, an association that means more to me than any other. As a private citizen or as your President, I will never, never do anything to dishonor our obligations to them and their families or to forget what they and their ancestors have done to make this country the beautiful, bountiful, blessed place we love.
Thank you.
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(Good Lord) There you go (yet) again.
- Ronald Reagan
Even Reagan didn’t have to keep saying it so many times to Carter before even he got the message. Are you Jimmy Carter?
MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 9:18 PM
If you mean the man who writes for TAC, he’s a “right writer”. Libertarian subset.
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 9:19 PM
This is not the John McCain I have known.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 14, 2008 at 9:19 PM
Great speech from Johnny Mac
He has some guts telling these people that border security must come first. The man is fearless.
Interesting how his comments have drawn out the pseudo-conservatives in force, using dubious language and comments that would get them banned from other GOP weblogs.
Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 9:21 PM
Chasdal, look at this list is this who you want to be known as following this guys writings? (He says he is a “libertarian” sometimes), but definitely a Ron Paul kind of guy. Who I consider in the liberal vent more then conservative.
This is the kind of guy MB4 considers a mainstream writer, this is who he quotes and admires.
He disparages me for saying this guy is a liberal creep, and I feel that way about way out Ron Paul supporters.
Flenser follows MB4, so I imagine this would be his type of writer also.
Maybe your a Ron Paul guy, so this would be your writer also.
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 9:21 PM
Not so bright.
IIRC, I asked you what you thought the GOP could or should have done to “keep’ the black vote. For some reason you were never able to answer that question, so consider it asked again.
And how do you propose to get the Latino vote? Details, please.
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 9:23 PM
Why don’t you come right out and say what you want to say…why be so coy?
What are you really asking me, let’s see if you have the huevos…
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 9:24 PM
no, im a buckley/reagan conservative. something neither you nor mccain are.
chasdal on July 14, 2008 at 9:25 PM
God, you’re a moron.
So, any chance you can explain what you think the GOP should have done to keep the black vote, “Mz Conservative”?
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 9:25 PM
Well, because you like to sit back and pick away at someones ideas, let’s see where you stand.
Do you think that the Republicans could have done anything to stop the minorities from moving their vote to the Dems?
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 9:26 PM
What was “coy” about it? I asked straight out you if you were one of those Mexican families.
God, you’re a moron. Wherever you’re from, we need to stop all immigration from that place ASAP.
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 9:27 PM
Correction. McCarthy is a Pat Buchanan clone. Not quite sure what pseudo-conservatives like to call those who think that fighting Nazis was a waste of time, but in the real world the title is either far-right or national socialist.
Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 9:29 PM
no, they couldnt. the dems did it by playing identity politics and pandering. thats not what the republican party or conservatives do. which is why mccain isnt one of us. however the more affluent minorities vote republican in higher percentages, they know where their economic interests lie, the poor ones buy into the class warfare because they dont want to work to get themselves out of poverty
chasdal on July 14, 2008 at 9:30 PM
No, you silly little liberal twit, that is not how it works. When somebody asks you a question, you don’t ignore it and ask them a question instead.
You are the one who announced that the GOP lost the black vote by not doing whatever it was you think that should have done. The onus is on you say what you think should have been done differently.
I’ve been asking you this for weeks now. It looks pretty bad that you are afraid to answer the question. It’s almost as if you know how your answer will make you look …..
So, what should the GOP have done differently back then?
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 9:31 PM
i may be a pseudo conservative but at least i know the nazis and fascism in general is a product of the left. so, makes me question your conservative credentials. i suspect your a mccain liberal trolling for mccain brownie points.
chasdal on July 14, 2008 at 9:32 PM
and like the Nazi’s, they become so far right, they end up on the left side, certainly not on the conservative side.
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 9:33 PM
nothing of the sort, fascism was started, nurtured and matured as a left wing ideology and to this day any examples are always left wing.
chasdal on July 14, 2008 at 9:34 PM
Correction. Like all liberals, you are completely ignorant of the different factions that exist on the right. Pat Buchanan (who seems to keep you awake at night shivering in fear under the covers) is very different from the the libertarians, which is what Paul and McCarthy are.
I guess when viewed from the far left everybody appears to be the same.
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 9:35 PM
Okay
right2brightnot-so-bright…. I’m just making sure all the basis are covered here, in case no one has said it yet…. “You are such a dumb shit”.Mcguyver on July 14, 2008 at 9:37 PM
Is it possible to come up with a less conservative screen name than “Pax americana”? Maybe “God Damn America”, but it’s close.
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 9:38 PM
Ask again without the vindictive childish statements like “No, you silly little liberal twit” and I will answer.
Also apologize for calling me a liberal, seeing as I have a couple years of posts you can review that will show you otherwise. That is what the archives are for.
So we are at an impass, I do not respond to name callers like you, I won’t respond to people who outright lie, after having an opportunity to correct your statement with facts.
So apologize, revise your statement, or take a hike my little name calling friend.
As I stated, you are a “keyboard gangsta”, I would bet any amount of money, face to face and you would never think of calling me those names…but alas, you will because you have a keyboard and monitor to protect you. You brave little blogger you…
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 9:39 PM
Well, they have always been wrongly identified with the right, that was the point, just like Ron Paul is wrongly identified with the right.
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 9:41 PM
I suspect most of the pseudo-Republicans follow Pat Buchanan’s ludicrous scaremongering, clutching their copies of Death of the West at bedtime: ‘In the next 50 years, the Third World will grow by the equivalent of 30 to 40 new Mexicos. If you go to the end of the century, the white and European population is down to about three percent. This is what I call the death of the West. I see the nations dying when the populations die. I see the civilization dying.’
Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 9:42 PM
Liar. I’ve asked you countless times. You won’t answer because your answer will expose you as a liberal.
I can read your posts right here on this thread, where you admit that you a criminal who wants amnesty. Not exactly a liberal, but close enough.
Why, is your hubby a tough guy?
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 9:43 PM
Well don’t we have the name callers tonight, maybe one of you name callers will come up with a thought. Nawwww, name calling is easier.
Not so bright, never heard that before…duhhhhh!
You are making chasdal look like a scholar tonight.
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 9:44 PM
Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 9:42 PM
I notice that you did not even attempt to respond to the question you quoted, so why bother? Just cut and paste your left wing talking points and don’t pretend that you are engaging anyone here in debate.
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 9:46 PM
Says the woman who called another poster a racist murderer.
Lots of us have come up with thoughts. You’re just to dim to understand that.
So, how are you coming with that explanation of how the GOP can win the Hispanic vote? You clearly have special insight there, having employed so many illegals over the years.
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 9:49 PM
Normally when you call someone a criminal, you have a reason or some facts…want to back that up?
I didn’t think so. I think you have crossed the line with calling a poster a criminal.
As they say, put up or shut up.
What is this hubby stuff? Don’t you read posts, don’t you know anything about what you are talking about?
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 9:53 PM
Your cover is blown. As you are well aware, McCarthy is assisting Buchanan in his anti-McCain, anti-GOP crusade this year. You are part of the same movement. Isolationism, the withering of our military, and a lack of conviction in the superiority of American values and culture are all hallmarks of this pseudo-conservative movement.
Is it possible to come up with a less conservative screen name than “Pax americana”? Maybe “God Damn America”, but it’s close.
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 9:38 PM
If one believes, as Ron Paul and the pseudo-con movement does, that we should abolish federal military spending, abandon the defense of our overseas interests, and capitulate to fascist forces, you can be goddamn sure that there will be neither peace nor America left.
Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 9:54 PM
No, no, first the apology, and then take back the liberal tag…then we post.
I don’t give history lessons to little keyboard gansta’s.
And what person did I call a racist murderer?
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 9:56 PM
don’t bother with this troll, he has not a clue what he is talking about.
He waits for you to post then he critizes the posts, but seldom comes up with any of his own posts. Another gal named branch ritchey does the same thing.
When he is in trouble, he begins with the name calling, if you ignore the name calling it gets worse…kind of like a kid who cries, if you don’t pay attention, they up the decibels.
So tonight I am a criminal…of course no facts, nothing to go on, but I am a criminal, and a twit.
You have to step up you are only a “God Damn America”.
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 10:02 PM
I notice that the one thing that you “pax american” clowns are unwilling to use miliary force to defend is the actual borders of America. If we don’t start getting a grip on that then your grandiose plans to save Israel will come to nothing.
No, you ninny, I’m not aware of any such thing. But perhaps that simply means that I don’t spend as much time reading Buchanan and McCarthy as you do. So if you can cite something to that effect then I will be “wall aware” of it. Be my guest.
I repeat, “pax americana” is not the name that any conservative would ever give himself. Why not walk around with a big flashing sign that that says “I AM A PRO WAR LIBERAL!”?
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 10:12 PM
Babe, you could not give a history lesson if your life depended on it. You’ve been coming up with some silly excuse or another not to answer this question for weeks now.
Can’t you remember? Can’t you read?
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 10:14 PM
Thanks r2b - I’ve got some way to go yet to match your patience with such infantile trolling. Some of these pseudo-cons seem to post little else than anti-McCain/anti-GOP diatribes, almost certainly Daily Kos or Buchananite plants.
Their puerility is a shame, designed presumably to prevent any sensible discussion developing on hotair threads.
Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 10:15 PM
Yes, like the sensible discussion that “pax americana” is so earnestly trying to foster.
Liberals have dishonesty hard-coded in their genes.
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 10:17 PM
Pax, some people like to be spoon fed. I gave the links to Daniel McCarthy archives, they are pretty scary.
I have found flenser to get so irritated, that he ends up doing what he is doing now. He begins arguing with himself. I do not think he would be a follower of McCarthy if he read his articles.
So he is angry at us for dissing someone he would normally not give to cents to.
Very strange, this has happened before, he argued with me when I was quoting Sowell and Reagan, I mean how much more conservative could you be then that?
But then what do I know…I’m a criminal, to a boy behind a keyboard…
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 10:18 PM
When someone puts a turd omlette in front of you, and then gives you a choice of that, or a boiled used diaper, do you jump in and start chomping saying ‘At least it looks like food,’ or do you get up from the table until someone serves up something edible? You want them to stop serving you garbage, stop eating it. I’m not voting for anyone for President because I have no candidate. Yes, blah blah blah Obama will turn us into a 3rd world country..good. I have a 78 chevy blazer that only lacks a light MG to turn it into a ‘technical’. I’ll become the warlord of my neighborhood. I might even forge myself a ring of power and call myself ‘Lord Gigglepants’. Take your scaremongering to someone who gives a f**k.
austinnelly on July 14, 2008 at 10:19 PM
That’s what I thought, you don’t know, pulling it out of your better part.
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 10:20 PM
Says the one who plays the “racist” card towards anyone who disagrees with them on immigration enforcement policy.
Hollowpoint on July 14, 2008 at 10:20 PM
Gee, was I posting to you?
I wanted to know, if they aren’t voting for McCain, or Obama, what is there solution…you answered it, you don’t have one. This keyboard gangsta stuff must me fun for you guys. Only time your mom let’s you use those kind of words?
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 10:22 PM
No, you simpleton, I merely pointed out that he is somebody on “the right”, after you insisted otherwise. My entire knowledge of him is what I googled after I read his name on this thread.
No, you lying hack. You tried to enlist them into your plan to do “something” to win the black vote. I asked you what the “something” was that you had in mind. You then did your usual evasive action, since answering that question is not anything that you can afford to do.
Any time your fingers are moving on your keyboard, it’s safe to assume that you are lying.
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 10:24 PM
If there was rule allowing people to be banned for compulsive dishonesty, you’d be long gone. Seach your own filth on this thread and you’ll find it.
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 10:26 PM
Dump McMoron and run a non-traitor in his place.
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 10:27 PM
With all of your insults, why would I give you anything, anything at all.
I am here for you little boys to vent your anger, you obviously can’t express in during the day.
racist, lying hack, simplteon, liar, evasive,can’t read,liberal…did I miss any?
You have been busy.
Now if only after all those posts, you came up with a solution…if only you had an idea.
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 10:29 PM
Silly little troll, the reason that everyone here insults you is that you NEVER come up with any answers to anything. You simply spin and evade.
BTW, “little boys” is a womans insult.
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 10:32 PM
yeah, flenser is right.
the issue of un-educated illegal immigrants that you addresed? well i asked to be pointed to it, and posted an article by VDH showing how bad the grad rates among hispanics are. you just ignored that one.
chasdal on July 14, 2008 at 10:42 PM
Well what do we have here? If you’d like to prove that you are not a shameless lying turd, find a hotair thread where I have used the term ‘racist’ (your quotes) against anyone other than Jeremiah Wright and Robert Mugabe. Good luck.
Must say though, you do seem very sensitive to the charge…
Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 10:43 PM
Well done flenser. On the evidence of your puerile name calling, I suspect r2b is right in her assessment of your anatomy.
Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 10:46 PM
I think your comments on this thread are sufficient indictment.
Must say though, you do seem very sensitive to the charge…
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 10:48 PM
I had to look no further than this very thread. And no, that you used the word “bigot” rather than “racist” does not get you off the hook, as it’s still playing the same racist card.
Hollowpoint on July 14, 2008 at 10:48 PM
I think that grad rate is probably high, more like 60% drop out in areas like Chula Vista, East LA, Santa Ana.
I spent 20 years raising kids in the environment, I get it. I also know what it is like 9 pm in any emergency hospital in So. Cal, probably the only one speaking English. I get it. My kids knew every Mexican swear word by time they were 12, and hardly any four letter English words. My son lost two friends in the 8th grade to gang shootings, 8th grade. I get it. He also went through school as one of the few white kids, mostly hispanic, and black, I get it. Our whole family gets it.
I also ran owned a company with a couple of hundred employees, mostly Latino, I get it. I paid the same wage to them as anyone else (not minimum btw), why?, because they worked harder then anyone else. I could hardly keep a spoiled white kid working, but they (Hispanics) showed up for work everyday, and put in a full days work.
They, like the Italian, Polish, Irish, Jews, Vietnamese, Chinese, come here to work…work the four letter word to a lot of spoiled people. I get it.
If you want to build a house, you take your American workers, I will take my Mexican workers, pay them the same and we will see who comes out ahead after the job is done. I get it.
So let’s not throw this valuable commodity away, a group with great family traditions, lets find a way to keep the productive ones, and discard the non-productive ones. Everyone says we need to run Gov. like a business, well lets keep the assets, and get rid of the liabilities.
The liberals took the environment, they take the health care, they take the black vote, they take the hispanic vote…bullsh1t,why let them have these things. Take back the enviornment, it ours too, take back the health, we care as much as any, take back Social Security we want to make it worthwhile, take back the minority vote we are the ones who care about education.
Why let give the f’in liberals anything, they have wasted and squandered resources for decades…for what, blacks are enslaved to a lousy school system, mexicans the same, heath care is a fiasco, SS because we were to wimpy to give them the facts.
You “conservatives” sure give up a lot to maintain nothing, we have lost congress, and maybe the Presidency. Guess nothing is worth fighting for, unless it is handed to you.
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 10:52 PM
Sorry, “pax”, but you have not been following along. She was pretending at one stage that she was not a woman. Just more of her compulsive need to to lie I guess.
Boy, I’m sure glad that you showed up here to show us what a “serious discussion” looks like. So from what I can see, if I call her and you “purile”, that is a serious discussion, right? Hey, good to know!
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 10:52 PM
No, you criminal slime, you do not “get it”. You do not get to break the law to make money. You do not “get” that. Your Mexican workers need to leave the country, and you need to leave along with them.
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 10:56 PM
You hire lots of illegals, and are proud of that. I get it.
flenser on July 14, 2008 at 10:58 PM
La Raza = THE RACE
DfDeportation on July 14, 2008 at 11:00 PM
La Gente = The People
DfDeportation on July 14, 2008 at 11:00 PM
Correction simpleton. A little lesson in English language today (keep your OED on hand). Bigot and racist are not synonyms. Racist refers to those who discriminate on the basis of racial characteristics. Bigot refers to someone narrow in mind, such as those who criticise McCain for proposing anything short of hunting down and turfing out anyone who has entered this country without an appropriate visa these past 20 years.
You used the quotes. Now go ahead and back up your claim, until which time I will reserve the right to call you a shameless lying turd.
Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 11:01 PM
Funny how you assume all Mexican workers are illegal…I never said illegal, there are plenty of legal Mexican workers, now why would you think when someone says Mexican, they mean illegal……..
and knock off the criminal, if you don’t have proof, don’t use it.
I guarantee, that will get you banned. I am sure Ed is not monitoring it now, but knock off the criminal stuff.
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 11:01 PM
Juan “Z-Visa” McCain will issue “Z-Visas” within 24 hours to Illegal Alien chuntes…even the gangsters! No, McCain still doesn’t get it!
DfDeportation on July 14, 2008 at 11:02 PM
ICE, enforcing our reasonable, fair, just, compassionate, and HUMANE immgration laws is NOT committing acts of terrorism!!!
DfDeportation on July 14, 2008 at 11:05 PM
And he wants all the Mexicans to leave the country…naw, he is no racist. A racist would just arbitrarily say all Mexicans should leave the country…not just my Mexicans.
HAHAHAHAHA, out of the closet…
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 11:05 PM
Comprehensive Immigration Reform = AMNESTY
DfDeportation on July 14, 2008 at 11:06 PM
And he wants all the Mexicans to leave the country…naw, he is no racist. A racist would just arbitrarily say all Mexicans should leave the country…not just my Mexicans.
HAHAHAHAHA, out of the closet…
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 11:05 PM
If they’re here ILLEGALLY, they need to be deported since they don’t have enough integrity and pride to follow the laws…
DfDeportation on July 14, 2008 at 11:07 PM
ICE is not a terrorist organization…
DfDeportation on July 14, 2008 at 11:08 PM
Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: \ˈbi-gət\
Function: noun
Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1660
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
jaime on July 14, 2008 at 11:09 PM
If people from Germany, Mexico, Spain, France, El Salvador, etc., enter America illegally, they should be deported….period! Don’t you agree?
DfDeportation on July 14, 2008 at 11:11 PM
Hey Pax. knock it off.
I am a man, I am 60 years old, can swim 100 yards in seconds less then my years in age (waited all my life to do that, at 57 I swam it in 57 sec.), am a ranked 4.5 national tennis player, and can hobble under a 7 minute mile. Been married to a woman for 40 years (she is a ranked 4.5 player also), and have two adult attorney kids (who still can flash gang signs with the best of them).
And I have dealt with punks like flenser my whole life…all they have is a bark behind a keyboard.
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 11:12 PM
Our fair, humane, compassionate, just, and reasonable immigration laws are not racist at all…
DfDeportation on July 14, 2008 at 11:12 PM
Remind me again…..Mexican is a race?
Talon on July 14, 2008 at 11:14 PM
If you ran a red light, you broke the law, should you lose your car and the right to drive it forever? You don’t have enough integrity and pride to follow the law.
We have enough illegals who are dead weight, get rid of them first, then worry about the productive ones. When you get to them, I could give you 10 Americans who you would rather ship out then them.
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 11:15 PM
Mexico has finally revealed itself for what it has been all along…..A FAILED STATE.
DfDeportation on July 14, 2008 at 11:17 PM
Illegal Alien chuntes are NOT PRODUCTIVE if they are here illegally…
DfDeportation on July 14, 2008 at 11:18 PM
You being coy? You don’t understand the reference? When his insinuated to deport all the Mexicans, then he is a what?
Streeeeeeetch
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 11:19 PM
Are Cubans?
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 11:21 PM
And it will be up to only 4 people to determine when the border is secure - Schwarzenegger, Napolitano, Richardson, and Perry.
Mark1971 on July 14, 2008 at 2:53 PM
Pillars of Credibility??? BWAHAHAHAHAhahahahaha
DfDeportation on July 14, 2008 at 11:22 PM
Brainless Elperin just lift the whole piece from Obama’s web site?
Jaibones on July 14, 2008 at 11:22 PM
Are Cubans?
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 11:21 PM
Our fair, just, compassionate, reasonable, and HUMANE immigration laws provide for cases of asylum under certain circumstances. I thought I mentioned our laws are reasonable…
DfDeportation on July 14, 2008 at 11:24 PM
Was that because the unspoiled white kids were chased out of the city by unruly 8th grade brown “gangsta” kids?
This is why you are such a dumb shit…. with your head and your ass stuck in a
yuccayucky cactus!!You cannot separate the forest from the trees when your head is stuck up your ass, and your ass is stuck in the fork of a cactus tree that is ooozing liberal goo!
You right2bright (and all your various body parts) are an utter numskulled, dimwitted, uninformed, bigoted, “brown supremest” racist, donkey turd liberal! And I mean that and I would say that to you in person.
YOU ARE STUPID! AND YOU NEED TO BE CALLED ON IT!
IF YOU DON’T THINK THAT “CIVIL WAR” COULD BREAK OUT OVER THIS “COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM BULLSHIT” THAN IT IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE WHO THE REAL, UNITED STATES OF AMERICAN CITIZEN IS!!
No debate has roared louder and more shrill than this one and it’s all because of you stupid, arrogant, conceited, pompous ass donkey turd liberals!!
You are stupid because you have no fucking clue as to how powerful the revolt was and is against this!
You are arrogant because you give no fucking heed to reasonable debate.
You are conceited because you have, and, you think, that you will get away with this again.
You are pompous ass because you’re unwiped stinky butt is smelling up the town.
If this comes to a “civil war” than so be it and screw you!!
Mcguyver on July 14, 2008 at 11:25 PM
Look up ’synonym’ cretin. There are very many bigots who would not fit the definition of a racist. Plenty of them post here, for example.
Still waiting for you to retract your lies, Hollowman.
Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 11:28 PM
r2b, you seem to be missing the point. “Mexican” is not a race. So an American who expresses anti-Mexican sentiment might be displaying some sort of character flaw in your mind, but it ain’t racism.
Mexicans are not unlike Americans, in that there is a native population - how “native” I will leave to the anthropologists - that is mixed with various others who came there as conquering invaders, notably the Spaniards.
So, Spaniard = White, and native = Indian or something. Go watch some Mexican tv and tell me what racial makeup the political, media and entertainment stars seem to display. Spanish, si se puede. Native, not so much.
Who’s the racist?
Jaibones on July 14, 2008 at 11:28 PM
Better look again, the Cubans are in a special class all by themselves.
I agree about our laws being just, just more just for others. Once a Cuban sets foot on U.S. soil, tough to remove them. But once a Mexican sets foot, if we catch them, we can always remove them.
So what makes Cuba so special…you already state Mexico as a failed state, so why not political asylum?
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 11:29 PM
Mcg - uh…wow.
Jaibones on July 14, 2008 at 11:29 PM
The shrillness comes from the Far-Leftist Radicals have continued to pursue a path of divisive, poisoning, racist, and destructive emotional dialogue on this issue. Keep the emotion and lies from the Far-Left and you come to only one conclusion….Illegal Alien chuntes need to be deported, period.
DfDeportation on July 14, 2008 at 11:30 PM
Gee, such a nice statement…how do you feel about those Mexicans in general? You don’t like those legal ones do you?
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 11:31 PM
Goodness, the intellectuals are out in force this evening!
Too much Pat Buchanan before bedtime is bad for your health, Mcguyver.
Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 11:32 PM
So what makes Cuba so special…you already state Mexico as a failed state, so why not political asylum?
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 11:29 PM
Are you in agreement that Mexico is a FAILED STATE?
DfDeportation on July 14, 2008 at 11:32 PM
Gotta run. Back in 10 minutes….
DfDeportation on July 14, 2008 at 11:33 PM
No kidding.. let’s see here.. if
right2brightnot-so-bright and all Amnesty shills would agree to trading our border guards with the Mexican border guards at their southern point of entry, we would have no argument here.. since the Mexican (The Race) border guards regularly shoot down trespassers attempting to enter The Race’s southern border and all.Mcguyver on July 14, 2008 at 11:34 PM
I doubt that, if we sat down and talked, you would not be so violent…you don’t know where I live do you?…you don’t hear voices in the night do you?
It’s okay, nobody jnoticed that you were a raving lunatic in your post.
I just can’t understand how us conservative lose votes with you guys on our side…you seem so rational?
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 11:35 PM
Ummmm, look at my posts, I have not problem taking any action, any to defend our borders. Like any battle, a breach in the drawn line, means trouble.
I say put every national guardsman on the border for 3 months at a time. Lock it down. Ship all trouble makers out of here…but put something in place for those who have made a life here.
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 11:38 PM
For lack of time and space, yes. Maybe unfixable (if that’s a word).
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 11:40 PM
The problem with calling me all these names, just comes back to haunt you. I am probably 95% in agreement with all of you, just not on the course of action.
So in essence, you are calling yourself those words, that is what cracks me up.
Do you want the borders secured, so do I, maybe even more then you.
Do I want any illegal deported that has committed any type of crime or has no concrete means of support, ship him back.
We get down to one issue, what to do about the family that has been here for 3 years, steady income, paid there taxes, buying a home, bought a car, probably a better citizen then your “brother-in-law”, wants to be a citizen. Do we treat him like the ones who are taking from the system, when he is giving back?
Many of you say yes, because he broke the law…but you or ran a red light or speeded, so give up your car.
Why not fine him/her, just like most of the illegal problems we deal with.
Once we take care of the problems, all that are left are the assets, why remove them?
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 11:50 PM
Please point out where I said “bigot” and “racist” were synonyms.
Our amusing Mr. Flenser has Pwn3d you tonight, and right2bright. You should come back at some later time and call the immigration-enforcement commenters “bigots”, maybe neither he nor Hollowpoint will be here to kick your ass around.
You’re just a hater, Pax. Anyway, I’ll be waiting for you to point out the claim of “synonym”.
jaime on July 14, 2008 at 11:52 PM
Okay, a bigot then, but you know exactly what I was getting at. But I will play your game.
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 11:53 PM
Not because he “broke the law”, but because he violated our sovereignty. You don’t seem to understand the qualitative difference, here. You are in a rush to surrender our sovereignty to the hordes … and just to make yourself feel better about something.
If you can’t defend our sovereignty, now - just 7 years after 9/11, then you never will. So don’t act as if your call for amnesty (legalizing the illegals) is not an entree to fully open borders. It is.
And your desire to continue to try and equate people invading our land with me speeding on a road in MY land is just absolutely infuriating. I already pointed out to you that, in this very lame analogy, it would be more appropriate to ask what happens to someone caught driving without a license. The car is taken away and the person is fined, possibly jailed (depending) and probably will have to wait some longer time to get that license - and that’s for US citizens.
The assets that illegals are trying to steal (and stealing) are worth tens of trillions of dollars. They affect our ability to bring in the immigrants we want and they tax every part of our system, contributing only at the lowest levels - which anyone can do.
progressoverpeace on July 15, 2008 at 12:01 AM
Actually I love them. I have dated them frequently. I’m dating on now.
I just don’t like lawbreakers and arrogant assholes like you, McCain and the La Raza types.
The one chic I dated, kept calling me “such a whitey” whenever I made an intelligent statement that was “over her head” so to speak… I’m sure she fits right in with La Raza, beings they have brainwashed a whole generation of you bigots.
See again, you have no fucking clue about real USA citizens, and I have to use the specific definition of USA instead of Americans because I know you’re stupid little comeback here is to say that you are Americans too, (Central Americanos to be exactamente, stupido).
See, because of the brain washing by The Race you have not accurately assessed the real USA citizen which is why you get into piss fights with us.
MB4, for all the disagreements I have with him on the war is a true USA citizen, and proud of it.
See, if you, The Race, would take your pride (and arrogance) back to your country (that would be Mexico, in case you forgot) and fight that hard for your freedom as a sovereign citizen and help install the same constitutional laws as we have here, you actually would be dong something positive.
Mexico with all it’s natural resources is a rich country and can afford and support it’s own distinguished middle class people, if only The Race would fight for it.
Last but not least, like my former native Mexican girlfriend said, “We like to shop in the USA - because the stores are so clean, we like to go to the schools in the USA - because they are so good, we like to travel to the USA - because everything is so clean, organized, the rule of law and order is alive and well… and I’m sure that if ever something bad happened to us (Mexico) that the USA would take care of us.”
And my silent response to her was, “Yes I’m sure little sister, big brother would take care of you”.
So, no, I make make no apologies.
Mcguyver on July 15, 2008 at 12:05 AM
So you think that being a bigot is better then being a racist? One mis-uses the word, where another just as offensive word could have been used and you think that is some how better.
That is like calling someone an idiot, then pointing that that refers to a low IQ, and they have an average one so you think they should be called a fool instead. Okay…
So they aren’t a racist, they are bigots…yeah, that makes it better, sure straightened me out.
Reminds of an old joke: someone says jaime is “no smarter then a jackass”, and a friend defends him and say “Oh yes he is”.
Nope them guys ain’t racists, because them Mexicans ain’t a race…why they am bigots…
right2bright on July 15, 2008 at 12:05 AM
A person like you never does…
right2bright on July 15, 2008 at 12:08 AM
So you are saying that the illegal who is buying a home, has two cars, is stealing from you? Tens of trillions? And which immigrants do we want? You mean the ones that hold down jobs, and work and pay taxes.
right2bright on July 15, 2008 at 12:12 AM
I’m not getting what you’re trying to say. Oh, sure, I get the part like “someone says right2bright isn’t fit to sleep with the pigs”, and I defend you by saying “yes he is”.
But as for all the rest of that nonsense, it’s just gibberish. Try putting together a coherent sentence and get back to me.
jaime on July 15, 2008 at 12:18 AM
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