McCain’s remarks to La Raza; Update: McCain tells La Raza that “borders must be secured”

posted at 2:45 pm on July 14, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

Update II: The Washington Post reports that McCain took a couple of tough questions from the La Raza audience — and the responses might surprise a few people:

But the questioner continued to press McCain, asking whether he would address border security and immigration reform in a single bill. “One single bill?” he asked.

At that point, McCain reverted to the position he adopted earlier this year during the GOP primary, where he suggested the country should take on the question of border enforcement before addressing questions like guest workers and amnesty for undocumented workers. “One single, comprehensive bill — but first we have to assure the American people that the borders are secure,” he said, adding that if politicians fail to do that, “then we don’t pass the legislation.”

After a couple of questions a La Raza official suggested the senator had to leave, but McCain — who joked that in light of the “tough questions” he should have stuck to his prepared speech — insisted he would take a couple more. At one point he even tossed his microphone into the audience, at which point the questioner asked whether McCain would commit to ending the “inhumane raids” that separate illegal immigrants from their babies and small children.

“When your forefathers came, there was no illegal-legal. Everyone was welcome at Ellis Island,” the man asserted.

But McCain refused to rule out the idea of raids on illegal immigrants, saying, “The United States has to have secure borders sir, and that’s necessary, even if you disagree.”

That doesn’t sound like McCain was interested in a complete panderfest — and it gives more credence to his borders-first position.

Original post follows …

=================

The McCain campaign has released John McCain’s speech to La Raza today, one day after Barack Obama characterized ICE raids as a form of terrorism against American communities.  The speech focuses more on economics than it does on immigration policy. At least half of the speech hits themes such as tax policy, free trade with Latin America, and education policy, emphasizing pro-growth strategies rather than the top-down redistributionist policies Obama offers.

At the end, he says the following about immigration:

Let me address one other issue important to all of us. As you know, I and many other colleagues twice attempted to pass comprehensive immigration legislation to fix our broken borders; ensure respect for the laws of this country; recognize the important economic contribution of immigrant laborers; apprehend those who came here illegally to commit crimes; and deal practically and humanely with those who came here, as my distant ancestors did, to build a better, safer life for their families, without excusing the fact they came here illegally or granting them privileges before those who have been waiting their turn outside the country. Many Americans did not believe us when we said we would secure our borders, and so we failed in our efforts. I don’t want to fail again to achieve comprehensive immigration reform. We must prove we have the resources to secure our borders and use them, while respecting the dignity and rights of citizens and legal residents of the United States. When we have achieved our border security goal, we must enact and implement the other parts of practical, fair and necessary immigration policy. We have economic and humanitarian responsibilities as well, and they require no less dedication from us in meeting them.

He also added this in response to charges Obama made at the La Raza conference yesterday:

I spoke recently at both the NALEO and LULAC conferences, as did Senator Obama. I did not use those occasions to criticize Senator Obama. I would prefer not to do so today. But he suggested in his speeches there and here, that I turned my back on comprehensive reform out of political necessity. I feel I must, as they say, correct the record. At a moment of great difficulty in my campaign, when my critics said it would be political suicide for me to do so, I helped author with Senator Kennedy comprehensive immigration reform, and fought for its passage. I cast a lot of hard votes, as did the other Republicans and Democrats who joined our bipartisan effort. So did Senator Kennedy. I took my lumps for it without complaint. My campaign was written off as a lost cause. I did so not just because I believed it was the right thing to do for Hispanic Americans. It was the right thing to do for all Americans. Senator Obama declined to cast some of those tough votes. He voted for and even sponsored amendments that were intended to kill the legislation, amendments that Senator Kennedy and I voted against. I never ask for any special privileges from anyone just for having done the right thing. Doing my duty to my country is its own reward. But Ido ask for your trust that when I say, I remain committed to fair, practical and comprehensive immigration reform, I mean it. I think I have earned that trust.

So McCain will tell La Raza that border security has to come first. He also put Obama to the left of Ted Kennedy and painted him as the real chameleon on immigration.

Most of the speech has been embargoed until delivery, so I will update this post at that time with the full text. Michelle, of course, has already posted her translation ….

Update: Full speech added:

Thank you, Jane, for that kind introduction. Thank you, also to the leadership of the National Council of La Raza, and its board of directors. I’m very pleased to be with you again to discuss some of the issues in this campaign that most concern you. As you know, this isn’t my first address to La Raza. I’m proud to have worked hard over the years with many friends here and elsewhere to make sure Americans of Hispanic heritage are appreciated for their contributions to the prosperity, security and culture of the United States, and to improve opportunities for your continued success, not for your sake alone but for the benefit of the entire nation. I also want to thank La Raza’s former CEO, Raul Yzaguirre, for being here today, and for the privilege of over twenty years of friendship and counsel he has so generously given me. And to my fellow Arizonans here today, who have given me the great honor of serving you in the United States Senate, thank you from the bottom of my heart. With your votes, advice and encouragement you have helped me to be a better public servant and a better American, and I am in your debt.

There are several issues I want to discuss today, but let me begin with the one that concerns all Americans the most — our economy. Over 400,000 people have lost their jobs since December, and the rate of new job creation has fallen sharply. Americans are worried about the security of their current job, and they’re worried that they, their kids and their neighbors may not find good jobs and new opportunities in the future. To make matters worse, gas is over $4 a gallon and the price of oil has nearly doubled in the last year. The cost of everything from energy to food is rising.

I have a plan to grow the economy, create more and better jobs, and get America moving again. I have a plan to reform government, achieve energy security, and ensure that healthcare and a quality education are affordable and available for all. I believe the role of government is to unleash the creativity, ingenuity and hard work of the American people, and make it easier to create jobs.

At its core, the economy isn’t the sum of an array of bewildering statistics. It’s about where Americans work, how they live, how they pay their bills today and save for tomorrow. It’s about small businesses opening their doors, hiring employees and growing. It’s about giving workers the education and training to find a good job and prosper in it. It’s about the aspirations of the American people to build a better life for their families; dreams that begin with a job.

So how are we going to create good jobs? Let’s start with small businesses, which create the majority of all jobs. A recent report says small businesses have created 233,000 jobs so far this year while other sectors are losing jobs. Small businesses are the job engine of America, and I will make it easier for them to grow and create more jobs. There are two million Latino owned businesses in America, many of them started by Latinas. The first consideration we should have when debating tax policy is how we can help those companies grow and increase the prosperity of the millions of American families whose economic security depends on their success.

It is a terrible mistake to raise taxes during an economic downturn. Increasing the tax burden on Americans impedes job growth, discourages innovation and makes us less competitive. The many small business owners who pay individual tax rates would take strong exception to the idea that keeping them low helps no one but the wealthiest Americans. Taking more money from small businesses deprives them of the capital they need to invest and grow and hire. Jobs are the most important thing our economy creates. When you raise taxes in a bad economy you eliminate jobs. I’m not going to let that happen, I will keep taxes low and cut them where I can. For those of you with children, I will double the child deduction from $3500 to $7000 for every dependent, in every family in America. I will reduce the estate tax to fifteen percent, so parents who have spent long years working hard to build a business, and provide a decent living to t heir employees, can leave the product of a lifetime of labor and love to their children.

La Raza runs one of the largest housing counseling programs in the country that has helped tens of thousands of Latinos become homeowners with secure mortgages. But millions of Americans have been hurt by the mortgage crisis and falling home values, and many in the Hispanic community have been especially hard hit. I want to help people who genuinely need assistance in these tough times, not speculators and lenders who contributed to this mess and didn’t follow the basics of good business practice. I am committed to making sure families who want to hold onto their home have a chance to do so. My HOME plan allows families who need help to apply — either at their local Post Office or online — for a new, guaranteed, fixed-rate, 30-year mortgage that will allow them to remain in their home, and raise their family with dignity.

To get our economy on track again, and create new and better jobs, we need to compete more, not less, in the global economy. We can’t build walls to foreign competition, and we shouldn’t want to. America is the biggest exporter, importer, producer, manufacturer, and innovator in the world. That’s why I reject the false virtues of economic isolationism. Any confident, competent country and its government should embrace competition – it makes us stronger – not hide from our competitors and cheat our consumers and workers. We can compete and win, as we always have, or we can be left behind. Lowering barriers to trade creates more and better jobs, and higher wages. It keeps inflation under control. It makes goods more affordable for low- and middle-income consumers. Ninety-five percent of the world’s consumers live outside the U.S. Our future prosperity depends on opening more of these markets, not closing them.

I recently traveled to Colombia and Mexico because I understand how vitally important it is to the prosperity and security of our country to strengthen our trade, investment and diplomatic ties to other countries in our hemisphere. I have often traveled over the years to Central and South America, and I have learned our relationships there are as important, if not more important, as any relationships we have in the world. It is the reason why I’m an unapologetic supporter of NAFTA, the Central American Free Trade Agreement, and the Colombian Free Trade Agreement, and why I believe a hemispheric free trade agreement is a worthy and necessary goal whose time has come. And while it is surely not my intention to become my opponent’s scheduler, I hope Senator Obama soon visits some of the other countries of the Americas for the first time. Were he to do so, I think he, too, would see that stronger economic bonds with our neighbo rs and the closer friendships they encourage, are a great benefit in many ways to our country. Colombian President Uribe, a man of courage and vision, has risked much to combat the narco-terrorists of FARC for the sake of all peoples in this hemisphere. His recent leadership in freeing Americans held hostage for years should earn him the respect and gratitude of all Americans. And we should emulate his statesmanship by passing the trade agreement Colombia and the United States have negotiated, and which both countries would greatly benefit from.

I know that not all Americans have prospered in the global economy. And for those who, through no fault of their own, have lost their job to foreign competition, I have proposed a comprehensive reform of our unemployment insurance and worker retraining programs. We will use our community colleges to help train workers for specific opportunities in their communities. And for workers of a certain age who have lost a job that won’t come back, if they move rapidly to a new job we’ll help make up the difference in wages between their old job and the new one.

In the global economy what you learn is what you earn. Today, studies show that half of Hispanics entering high school do not graduate with their class. By the 12th grade, U.S. students in math and science score near the bottom of all industrialized nations. Many parents fear their children won’t have the same opportunities they had. That is unacceptable in a country as great as ours. In many schools, particularly where people are struggling the hardest, the situation is dire, and I believe poses the civil rights challenge of our time. We need to shake up failed school bureaucracies with competition; hold schools accountable for results; strengthen math, science, technology and engineering curriculums; empower parents with choice; remove barriers to qualified instructors, attract and reward superior teachers, and have a fair but sure process to weed out incompetents. I’m a strong believer in charter schools. La Raza has hel ped establish 50 new charter schools and the results they are producing are very encouraging. Hispanics work hard and sacrifice a lot because their most cherished dreams are the ones they hold for their children. You understand the importance of early childhood development and the active role parents must play in their children’s education to make sure they graduate on time and with an excellent opportunity to live happy and prosperous lives. You deserve a greater say in deciding how your children are educated, and I am committed to making sure you do.

Let me address one other issue important to all of us. As you know, I and many other colleagues twice attempted to pass comprehensive immigration legislation to fix our broken borders; ensure respect for the laws of this country; recognize the important economic contribution of immigrant laborers; apprehend those who came here illegally to commit crimes; and deal practically and humanely with those who came here, as my distant ancestors did, to build a better, safer life for their families, without excusing the fact they came here illegally or granting them privileges before those who have been waiting their turn outside the country. Many Americans did not believe us when we said we would secure our borders, and so we failed in our efforts. I don’t want to fail again to achieve comprehensive immigration reform. We must prove we have the resources to secure our borders and use them, while respecting the dignity and rights of citizens and legal residents of the United States. When we have achieved our border security goal, we must enact and implement the other parts of practical, fair and necessary immigration policy. We have economic and humanitarian responsibilities as well, and they require no less dedication from us in meeting them.

Several years ago, the leading newspaper in my state published an article putting faces on the tragic human costs of illegal immigration, and I would like to briefly quote from it:

“Maria Hernandez Perez was No. 93. She was almost 2. She had thick brown hair and eyes the color of chocolate.

“Kelia Velazquez-Gonzales, 16, carried a Bible in her backpack. She was No. 109

“John Doe, No. 143, died with a rosary encircling his neck. His eyes were wide open.”

We can’t let immigrants break our laws with impunity. We can’t leave our borders undefended. But these people are God’s children, who wanted simply to be Americans, and we cannot forget the humanity God commands of us as we seek a remedy to this problem.

I spoke recently at both the NALEO and LULAC conferences, as did Senator Obama. I did not use those occasions to criticize Senator Obama. I would prefer not to do so today. But he suggested in his speeches there and here, that I turned my back on comprehensive reform out of political necessity. I feel I must, as they say, correct the record. At a moment of great difficulty in my campaign, when my critics said it would be political suicide for me to do so, I helped author with Senator Kennedy comprehensive immigration reform, and fought for its passage. I cast a lot of hard votes, as did the other Republicans and Democrats who joined our bipartisan effort. So did Senator Kennedy. I took my lumps for it without complaint. My campaign was written off as a lost cause. I did so not just because I believed it was the right thing to do for Hispanic Americans. It was the right thing to do for all Americans. Senator Obama declined t o cast some of those tough votes. He voted for and even sponsored amendments that were intended to kill the legislation, amendments that Senator Kennedy and I voted against. I never ask for any special privileges from anyone just for having done the right thing. Doing my duty to my country is its own reward. But I do ask for your trust that when I say, I remain committed to fair, practical and comprehensive immigration reform, I mean it. I think I have earned that trust.

Let me close by expressing my respect and gratitude for the contributions of Hispanic-Americans to the culture, economy and security of the country I have served all my adult life. I represent Arizona where Spanish was spoken before English was, and where the character and prosperity of our state owes a great deal to the many Arizonans of Hispanic descent who live there. And I know this country, which I love more than almost anything, would be the poorer were we deprived of the patriotism, industry and decency of those millions of Americans whose families came here from other countries in our hemisphere. Latinos are among the hardest working most productive people in our country. The strength of your religious faith and the strength and closeness of your families are a great force for social stability and individual happiness. In my recent visit to Mexico, I visited the Shrine of the Virgin of Guadalupe, and was greatly mov ed by the experience, and came to appreciate all the more your deep devotion to the God who created us and loves us all equally. I will honor your contributions to America for as long as I live. We would not be the special country we are without you.

I know many of you are Democrats, and many of you would usually vote for the presidential candidate of that party. I know I must work hard to win your votes, but you have always given me a respectful hearing, and I appreciate it. I know many of you were disappointed and hurt by those who used the debate on immigration last year, not to respectfully debate the issue, as most did, but to denigrate the contributions of Hispanics to our great country. I denounced those insults then, and I denounce them today. My friends, you know me. One of my proudest achievements as a politician is to have won 75 percent of the Hispanic vote in Arizona in my last re-election. I believe I’m the only member of the Senate to have twice won your Congressional Leadership Award, a distinction I am also very proud of. Senator Obama is a fine man, and an inspiring public figure. All Americans should be proud of his success. I also greatly admire Sena tor Hillary Clinton, and value her friendship. She, too, would have been a very worthy opponent. But I intend to compete for your votes by continuing to earn your trust.

When I was in prison in Vietnam, I like other of my fellow POWs, was offered early release by my captors. Most of us refused because we were bound to our code of conduct, which said those who had been captured the earliest had to be released the soonest. My friend, Everett Alvarez, a brave American of Mexican descent, had been shot down years before I was, and had suffered for his country much more and much longer than I had. To leave him behind would have shamed us. When you take the solemn stroll along that wall of black granite on the national Mall, it is hard not to notice the many names such as Rodriguez, Hernandez, and Lopez that so sadly adorn it. When you visit Iraq and Afghanistan you will meet some of the thousands of Hispanic-Americans who serve there, and many of those who risk their lives to protect the rest of us do not yet possess the rights and privileges of full citizenship in the country they love so well. To love your country, as I discovered in Vietnam, is to love your countrymen. Those men and women are my brothers and sisters, my fellow Americans, an association that means more to me than any other. As a private citizen or as your President, I will never, never do anything to dishonor our obligations to them and their families or to forget what they and their ancestors have done to make this country the beautiful, bountiful, blessed place we love.

Thank you.

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4 5

Once again, McCain proved that he can rationalize anything no matter how wrong it is.

I have never heard any sound argument for granting amnesty. “they are God’s children” just like every inmate at Levenworth. “They are already here” or ” they contribute to America”, or “We must be humane”.

The rule of law trumps all that. With that pandering rhetoric, I wonder what he can’t rationalize away.

Rewarding illegal behavior is wrong and is a dis-service to the United States foundation of the rule of law. McCain knows that, but he is more concerned about himself and the Presidency than he is the United States. I think McCain feels entitled, and above criticism.

It is clear that the 1986 amnesty precipitated millions more
illegal immigrants. Doing the same thing and expecting different results is nothing short of insanity.

McCain talks about how impossible it is to secire the border, then talks about security first. Security is stopping the incentives that draw illegals here. These incentives are far easier to shut down than the border. If hew sincerely cared about illegal immigration, he would address those issues that could have the biggest impact the fastest.

saiga on July 14, 2008 at 4:46 PM

I still have a hard time blaming Mexican peasants (who can’t work here in the US legally) for doing something I would probably do if I were a Mexican peasant. They’re not breaking the laws of their own country. Just the laws of the neighbors. And the punishment they face? A free trip home. What’s the downside? Not much.

RBMN on July 14, 2008 at 4:47 PM

Two comments.

1. Not a bad speech, though I bristle at the thought of McCain giving “The Race” an ounce of legitimacy. But, this is what we Republicans get for failing to get a good conservative to run for President this year. I just hope if McCain wins, we can hold him to his word.

2. For the love of God, why does McCain have to work his POW status into every speech?

When I was in prison in Vietnam, I like other of my fellow POWs, was offered early release by my captors… My friend, Everett Alvarez, a brave American of Mexican descent, had been shot down years before I was, and had suffered for his country much more and much longer than I had. To leave him behind would have shamed us.

This is starting to sound more and more like Giuliani waving the bloody 9/11 shirt in every speech. Just cut it out, McCain!

Outlander on July 14, 2008 at 4:57 PM

Dear JetBoy:

What would be your preferred policy to deal with illegal immigration? In your own parlance, c’mon now, and ‘fess up?

Not want do you want, but what would you do?

BigD on July 14, 2008 at 4:39 PM

Our entire immigration system needs a complete overhaul. But I’m with McCain…fines, back taxes, etc. And building a fence that works. But again, half the illegals here came here legally, and just simply stayed. A fence only solves half the problem.

JetBoy on July 14, 2008 at 4:59 PM

JetBoy on July 14, 2008 at 4:59 PM

Attrition through enforcement solves the other half.

innominatus on July 14, 2008 at 5:02 PM

I have never heard any sound argument for granting amnesty. “they are God’s children” just like every inmate at Levenworth. “They are already here” or ” they contribute to America”, or “We must be humane”.
saiga on July 14, 2008 at 4:46 PM

You can make a rational argument for amnesty by saying that by legalizing them, we remove the incentive for employers and landlords to take advantage of them. Employers, landlords, etc. violate housing and labor laws with impunity because illegals are afraid to report the violations for fear of being deported.

While the argument is rational, the fact is we tried amnesty in 1986 and it was an abymsal failure. You have to do border enforcement and you have to set up an employer enforcement system with teeth to dry up the job opportunitites for illegals presently in the country.

Outlander on July 14, 2008 at 5:03 PM

Great Speech Jonny Mac!

This proves that his commitment to Border security first is genuine, in contrast to Obama’s open borders policy, as well as discrediting the bigots who still attack McCain because he believes in a better and more humane solution than throwing out every last man woman and child who has crossed the border illegally in the last 20 years.

Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 5:04 PM

While the argument is rational, the fact is we tried amnesty in 1986 and it was an abymsal failure. You have to do border enforcement and you have to set up an employer enforcement system with teeth to dry up the job opportunitites for illegals presently in the country.

Outlander on July 14, 2008 at 5:03 PM

The policy was a success in temporarily reducing exploitation, but it failed to end the tide of illegals because it was tied to insufficient border enforcement and checks on illegals. With safeguards for that in place, there are good reasons for letting those who have been working here settle.

Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 5:08 PM

But again, half the illegals here came here legally, and just simply stayed. A fence only solves half the problem.

JetBoy on July 14, 2008 at 4:59 PM

I would really appreciate some data backing up the stat that half the approximate 15 million Latinos came here legally and stayed.

What the fence addresses, that nothing else does, it keeps them out once they have been caught and documented. It also keeps out the 500,000 that stroll across the border every year blending into their/our underground economy.

patrick neid on July 14, 2008 at 5:09 PM

This proves that his commitment to Border security first is genuine, in contrast to Obama’s open borders policy, as well as discrediting the bigots who still attack McCain because he believes in a better and more humane solution than throwing out every last man woman and child who has crossed the border illegally in the last 20 years.

Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 5:04 PM

You might want to switch to a lighter shade of rose-colored glasses. McCain’s definition of “border security” seems to be a bit more lax than that of most of us, considering he’s talking about “comprehensive immigration reform” being passed in under a year from being elected.

Oh, and keep trying to play the RACIST! card against everyone who feels the law should be actively enforced. Really.

Hollowpoint on July 14, 2008 at 5:13 PM

Hispandering – it’s in vogue – embrace it. They are the new majority minority.

Why don’t we all just leave and come back in 8 years?

Wait, I wouldn’t want to see how my country looks by then. Maybe we should just leave.

Don’t even bother to consume more energy. Just don’t vote, or vote for Barr, Nader, or for Obama.

All this energy consumption is for naught. I feel like I’ve seen this tape a thousand times by now. My head is spinning and it is sickening.

If you somehow think that Juan has earned my vote you are muy loco.

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 4:19 PM

If your vote will count in Oregon, then the country is in more trouble than I thought.

Let’s just all vote for Obama! We will deserve him and what he will do, or not do, completely.

The country is not serious and deserves its leaders fully. The whores are us.

Entelechy on July 14, 2008 at 5:19 PM

I still have a hard time blaming Mexican peasants (who can’t work here in the US legally) for doing something I would probably do if I were a Mexican peasant. They’re not breaking the laws of their own country. Just the laws of the neighbors. And the punishment they face? A free trip home. What’s the downside? Not much.

RBMN on July 14, 2008 at 4:47 PM

I don’t blame them either- the poverty in many parts of Central America is horrendous. However, that applies to most parts of the world- Africa, South America, the Carribean, much of Asia, etc. We can no longer afford to take in all the world’s huddled masses. It’s up to countries like Mexico to solve their own problems rather than export them to the US.

Previous promises of border security and immigration enforcement coupled with amnesty have proven to encourage- not discourage- more illegal immigration. Until the US government demonstrates an aggressive, sustained effort to enforce immigration law we shouldn’t even be considering putting up with another round of amnesty.

Hollowpoint on July 14, 2008 at 5:20 PM

‘Cause thems are two choices. It’s like choosing between a bowl of lima beans and a hot fudge sundae. Even if the sundae doesn’t have walnuts on it like I would rather have it, I’m still going for the sundae over the lima beans. You’re refusing both.

Its more like a choice between a bowl full of feces, and a bowl full of icecream with feces on top.

Ars Moriendi on July 14, 2008 at 5:20 PM

Its more like a choice between a bowl full of feces, and a bowl full of icecream with feces on top.

Ars Moriendi on July 14, 2008 at 5:20 PM

A rather revolting, but accurate, description. ;)

Jiobaobubai on July 14, 2008 at 5:28 PM

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 3:50 PM

That’s down right scary. And astoundingly believable.

So much for getting a good night sleep the rest of this week.

BowHuntingTexas on July 14, 2008 at 5:33 PM

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 3:50 PM

Obama will have free hand to go 5 times as fast at the destruction of this country. Like I say, we deserve our leaders. The whores are us. We’re scroomed.

Entelechy on July 14, 2008 at 5:42 PM

This was not a bad speech. I know that some people will not be able with anything McCain says, but there is no pleasing most of those people anyway. No point in trying.

Terrye on July 14, 2008 at 5:46 PM

This is what wholesale screeching and hating gets. Posted today on another thread.
This is vigilante stuff, something conservative should rail against.

“ICE agents went to Jesus Garcia’s home on April 16 in conjunction with a raid on a nearby Pilgrim’s Pride poultry processing plant, where he worked marinating chicken meat. Garcia, from Mexico, has been a legal permanent resident for a year and a half. When about 10 ICE agents and local sheriff’s deputies knocked on his door, they told him he was using the wrong Social Security number, says his wife, Olivia Garcia, a U.S. citizen.

Though Garcia showed the agents his green card, they handcuffed him and jailed him. He was released a day and a half later after agents told him he wasn’t the person they wanted, he says. He had spent the night in jail. “He said it was pretty bad,” Olivia says. “People were crying and screaming.”

Jesus Garcia, who has since left Pilgrim’s Pride for another job, says the mishap cost him three days of work. “I worked hard to get my residency,” he says. “And to take me to jail just over a mistake?”

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-06-24-Immigration-raids_N.htm?csp=34

jim m on July 14, 2008 at 2:27 PM

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 5:49 PM

Too bad that conservatives who complain with such ferocity about this today could not be troubled to deal with it in the past. But they did not. They blew it off until it was useful.

Now they act as if decades of ignoring the problem are all the fault of McCain and Bush. Might as well let Obama win They say. Please. What nonsense.

Terrye on July 14, 2008 at 5:50 PM

We should be more concerned with Congress than Obama or McCain. The President can’t:

- Pass comprehensive immigration reform/grant amnesty (there’s not much enforcement now, so it doesn’t matter much whether it’s Obama or McCain)
- Raise or lower taxes
- Pass national health care
- Do anything to help/hurt the economy
- Authorize domestic oil drilling
- Bail out banks
- Fund or defund the war in Iraq

For all their political rhetoric, neither Obama or McCain can’t do any of the things they’re promising to do. Our focus should be to get the likes of Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, Feinstein, Murtha, Shumer and Kerry out of Congress. Until that’s done, it doesn’t matter who’s President.

SCOTUS appointments are important but neither party has the votes to stop a filibuster.

orlandocajun on July 14, 2008 at 5:50 PM

McCain wants to secure the border, isn’t that the one thing last year everyone hollered about. Before any amnesty, guest worker program, before any “comprehensive” program, we secure the borders.
Now he says that, commits to that, and it isn’t what you want?

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 5:51 PM

When we have achieved our border security goal, we must enact and implement the other parts of practical, fair and necessary immigration policy. We have economic and humanitarian responsibilities as well, and they require no less dedication from us in meeting them.

The only caveat, what is “border security goal”, other then that most would agree.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 5:53 PM

Terrye on July 14, 2008 at 5:50 PM
orlandocajun on July 14, 2008 at 5:50 PM

Read em and weep…

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 5:55 PM

longshot scenerio:
I’m wondering what Sen. McCain will do when the Hispanic vote goes largely for Obama. And he, McCain, still wins on 11/4/08. Will he turn on them? At least stop pandering to them? Will his attitude change and will he become more likely to support stronger border enforcement, etc.?
Be interested in hearing anyones opinion. DD

Darvin Dowdy on July 14, 2008 at 5:59 PM

McCain wants to secure the border, isn’t that the one thing last year everyone hollered about. Before any amnesty, guest worker program, before any “comprehensive” program, we secure the borders.
Now he says that, commits to that, and it isn’t what you want?

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 5:51 PM

Yes, he says that, but he has screwed us so many times before that we do not believe him anymore. We know exactly what he’ll really do and it will be 1986 all over again and the next time around it will be 60 million instead of just 20!

Jiobaobubai on July 14, 2008 at 6:01 PM

Anyway, even if McCain were to come out tomorrow and say “I’ll deport all illegals and build a 60-foot wall along the entire Mexican border”, you guys will still say “I don’t believe him”.

JetBoy on July 14, 2008 at 3:33 PM

True. Also, everyone who stops to think for a minute understands that there’s little chance that the federal government can stop all illegal immigration. If a wall goes up, people will find a way to get past it. Anti-illegal immigration zealots would prefer that the other parts of “comprehensive” reform wait until the border is sealed so tight that nobody can get through. This is a goal that McCain (or anybody else) can not meet, and there will always be some people who claim that the government’s actions are not good enough to proceed to the next step.

Big S on July 14, 2008 at 6:08 PM

I still have a hard time blaming Mexican peasants (who can’t work here in the US legally) for doing something I would probably do if I were a Mexican peasant. They’re not breaking the laws of their own country. Just the laws of the neighbors. And the punishment they face? A free trip home. What’s the downside? Not much.

RBMN on July 14, 2008 at 4:47 PM

I don’t hold nearly as much against them either as I do the fifth column of anti-Americans that facilitate them because of their own greed. I don’t believe their high talk about “God’s children” for a minutos. They just want the serf labor and the campaign contributions, that’s all.

The reason that Republican supporters of “Comprehensive Immigration Reform” want it is so that they and/or their campaign contributors can have serf labor. They would probably prefer actual out-and-out slaves but that is illegal.

The reason that shamnesty Democrats want this is so that those who are now illegal can become legal and vote for them. Many of them probably also want to do this for the same reason that shamnesty Republicans do too.

Does anyone think that many of these shamnesty politicians really care one wit otherwise for the illegals.

Does anyone think that any of the shamnesty politicians are going to invite these Mexican Indios and Mezclados to join their elite/exclusive golf clubs?

Come to live in their gated communities, other than as servants?

Invite them to their yachts, other than as low paid deck hands and/or servants?

Invite them to their cocktail parties?

Introduce them to their daughters?

The big majority of the Mexicans who have come here/will come here are Indios and Mezclados, not the Spanish descendant light-skinned ruling class of Mexico. This is a form of ethnic cleansing by Mexico’s ruling class.

So the shamnesty politicians like John McCain are aiding and abetting and facilitating ethnic cleansing.

If the U.N. were not such a joke, they would all be standing trial for trying to reintroduce a form of latter-day-slavery in the United States and for the mass ethnic cleansing of Mexico.

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 6:13 PM

When I was in prison in Vietnam, I like other of my fellow POWs, was offered early release by my captors… My friend, Everett Alvarez, a brave American of Mexican descent, had been shot down years before I was, and had suffered for his country much more and much longer than I had. To leave him behind would have shamed us.

That was the biggest no, no there, to leave before those that were there first. Had McCain done that he would have been a marked man.

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 6:16 PM

That was the biggest no, no there, to leave before those that were there first. Had McCain done that he would have been a marked man.
MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 6:16 PM

Yeah, the only reason that McCain didn’t leave was because he didn’t want to get killed by other POW’s. Not because of his integrity, not because he was loyal, but to save his skin. You are so awesome, MB4! You know exactly whats going on with McCain, MB4!

wise_man on July 14, 2008 at 6:22 PM

EgObama is so lame. My god. McCain is saying SOME of the right things, but at this juncture I can’t foresee not voting for him. Yes, I’ve flip-flopped.

SouthernGent on July 14, 2008 at 6:23 PM

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 3:50 PM

Obama will have free hand to go 5 times as fast at the destruction of this country. Like I say, we deserve our leaders. The whores are us. We’re scroomed.

Entelechy on July 14, 2008 at 5:42 PM

McCain will go at the speed of light. Obama can’t go faster than that. That’s what Einstein said anyway, but I suppose he may have been wrong.

If Obama pushes shamnesty Republicans in congress will at least try to stand up to him at least. Plus Obama is “Like a box of chockolets. You never know for sure what you are going to get”. With Juan McSucksSocks, he is obsessed with Shamnesty and Republicans will mostly just go with “their President”.

Trust me, I know what I’m doing.
- Sledge Hammer

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 6:26 PM

Yes, he says that, but he has screwed us so many times before that we do not believe him anymore.

Jiobaobubai on July 14, 2008 at 6:01 PM

Yes, the boy who cried wolf only had 2 chances before folks didn’t believe him anymore and he was wasn’t a self centered, “#uck you, I know more than anyone else!” twit. He probably didn’t say “My friends” and snicker either when he told his lies.

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 6:31 PM

wise_man on July 14, 2008 at 6:22 PM

I didn’t say that he would be killed. He would have been a marked man for scorn. He likely would also have been court martialed as his CO presumably gave him or would have given him a direct order to not accept cut-in-line release. Can you think of any POWs who took an offer of early release?

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 6:37 PM

And the democrats must be so overjoyed to see so many conservatives trashing McCain to the benefit of Obama, because that is what is going to occur if enough conservatives are pissed off at McCain, and don’t vote for him, while millions of democrats vote for Obama. And yes, even the Hillary supporters are going to be voting for Obama.

wise_man on July 14, 2008 at 3:08 PM

Did anyone hear a wall crumble, see a light go on…

If enough conservatives are pissed off at McCain? Where have you been? Conservatives ARE pissed off at McCain. People don’t generally like being told FU and then asked to bend over and oh by the way could you send a check.

jwp1964 on July 14, 2008 at 6:37 PM

I seldom comment – I’m sure some of you will think that’s a good idea – but I am so very tired of hearing that illegal immigration is not one of your hotspots. Don’t you realize that it is so tightly tied to the WOT (who are we letting in), the economy (the billions that are being used to support this underclass – and the establishment of a permanent underclass – that we pay for in jobs, opportunity and taxes), crime (aside from the obvious fact that they continue to break our laws just by being here – there are the tens of thousands of American citizens that have been killed, raped, and maimed and then there are the gangs that are infesting our country), our military heros (who return to find their jobs in the construction industry and others, if available, have been devalued so they can’t make a reasonable living),

unaffiliated on July 14, 2008 at 6:39 PM

unaffiliated on July 14, 2008 at 6:39 PM

What you lack in quantity, you make up for in quality.

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 6:41 PM

Apologies I hit submit too soon -
Don’t you understand that the illegals are already voting? That the communists, anarchists and the ‘progressives’ have been registering these people?
Both candidates are going to destroy our country and our sovereignity – it’s a hell of a crapshoot – and I won’t participate in electing either one. So if you choose to think McCain as the Republican is the better choice – you’re smoking some good stuff – because he is no different in the long run. As soon as citizenship is bestowed we are done as country.

unaffiliated on July 14, 2008 at 6:45 PM

Thanks MB4 – you take a lot of abuse – but you’re one of the few I agree with on virtually everything. ..and yes I’m a Goldwater conservative….

unaffiliated on July 14, 2008 at 6:47 PM

..and yes I’m a Goldwater conservative….

unaffiliated on July 14, 2008 at 6:47 PM


Where have you gone, Barry Goldwater?
Conservatives turn their longing eyes to you
(Woo woo woo)
What’s that you say, Juan McShamnesty
‘Mr Conservative’ you have driven far away?
(Hey hey hey – hey hey hey)

It’s a great country, where anybody can grow up to be president …… except me.
- Barry Goldwater

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 6:52 PM

chameleon.

pabarge on July 14, 2008 at 6:59 PM

In the years leading up to Barry Goldwater’s death, conservatives wondered what had happened to their hero. They had wondered for some time, actually—since at least 1976, when Goldwater endorsed moderate incumbent Gerald Ford over insurgent conservative Ronald Reagan for the Republican presidential nomination. Back then, conservative activist John Lofton suggested Goldwater must not be in his right mind, “still in an ether fog” from recent hip replacement surgery: “Possessed of all his faculties, he would never say the things he has been saying about Reagan.”

But by the early ’90s, there could be no doubt: Goldwater damned the Religious Right at every opportunity, spoke out for abortion rights, and not only supported letting gays serve openly in the military, but even lent his name to an effort to pass federal antidiscrimination laws for homosexuals—quite a turnabout for a man who as a senator had once stood on federalist grounds against the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Goldwater’s death in May 1998 rendered all of that moot. Whatever his heterodoxies, his place in conservative history, and conservatives’ hearts, was settled. He was still, as Pat Buchanan wrote at the time, “the father of us all.”
- Daniel McCarthy

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 7:01 PM

We know exactly what he’ll really do and it will be 1986 all over again and the next time around it will be 60 million instead of just 20!

Jiobaobubai on July 14, 2008 at 6:01 PM

And your choice is?….
I hear all this angry rhetoric, over the top about “ethnic cleansing”, not invite them to parties (heh, I remember Joe Kennedy being snubbed, many immigrants are snubbed), but what valid solution do these screaming banshees come up with, these hater of all things McCain, or Bush? This is their solution………………………………….

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 7:09 PM

these hater of all things McCain, or Bush?

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 7:09 PM

You really need to get over thinking that everyone who disagrees with you is a hater. It just makes you look desperate.

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 7:14 PM

And your choice is?….
I hear all this angry rhetoric, over the top about “ethnic cleansing”, not invite them to parties (heh, I remember Joe Kennedy being snubbed, many immigrants are snubbed), but what valid solution do these screaming banshees come up with, these hater of all things McCain, or Bush? This is their solution………………………………….

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 7:09 PM

My choice is to support neither of the two that will BOTH destroy the rule of law.

And MB4 is correct – your jump to the “hate” conclusion is far fetched and is most likely YOUR disposition, but it is not mine.

Just stay in the boiling water like a good little, soon to be cooked, frog.

Jiobaobubai on July 14, 2008 at 7:18 PM

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 5:51 PM

if he were serious about securing the border he would push to enforce existing laws and increasing resources to do so. we have plenty of laws and good ones on the books just no one is enforcing them.

but no, he wants to pass a new law that includes an amnesty. sorry, no sale. spend a few years putting some bite back in current laws and then we can discuss how to deal w/ the illegal immigrants still here. but when he insists we need new laws it shows he has no interest in anything other than hispandering.

john mccain your nytimes endorsed republican candidate.

chasdal on July 14, 2008 at 7:34 PM

Anyone know the date of McCain’s speech to Al-Q and CAIR?

Just wondering.

Ugh.

Gartrip on July 14, 2008 at 7:37 PM

That was the biggest no, no there, to leave before those that were there first. Had McCain done that he would have been a marked man.
MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 6:16 PM

Yeah, the only reason that McCain didn’t leave was because he didn’t want to get killed by other POW’s. Not because of his integrity, not because he was loyal, but to save his skin. You are so awesome, MB4! You know exactly whats going on with McCain, MB4!

wise_man on July 14, 2008 at 6:22 PM

You fools, he was not going to abandon his men, and allow himself to be used as propaganda fodder.. Nothing has shown that McCain was anything but a brave patriot during the war. You should stick with smearing his name in regards to something you have facts about.
So now show me the facts that led to your “knowing that he stayed for his own safety”. Although about 10% escaped (you would say they ran out on their men). 771 captured, 113 died, all tortured (more tortures then reading some of your rants).
Here, read about some real heroes.
Trying to win an argument by implying (without any proof) that he was not a patriot or hero is typical of someone who doesn’t have facts to win his argument. Yeah, he wanted to stay around to have his teeth bashed in.

Vietnamese communists played the race card. Air Force Maj. Fred V. Cherry, the highest ranking black POW in the North, recalled his captors trying to exploit him by treating him differently. The Vietnamese housed Cherry with Navy Lt. Porter A. Halyburton in apparent hopes of sowing dissension between a black aviator and a white Southerner. The tactic backfired. Cherry later credited Halyburton with saving his life, when his injuries from being shot down became so infected that he had to be fed by hand and assisted with his bodily needs.

Cherry’s resistance won him some of the war’s most severe exactions-including one 93-day stretch of unbroken torture and 53 straight weeks of solitary confinement.

On July 6, 1966, 52 prisoners were assembled, blindfolded, handcuffed in pairs, and taken by truck to downtown Hanoi. The plan was to parade the Americans in public view and then use them as props in a war crimes show-trial to take place at a nearby stadium. This event came to be known as the “Hanoi March” and is viewed as a watershed in the propaganda war. “Oh boy, I love a parade,” quipped USAF Capt. Robert B. Purcell, captive since July 27, 1965, when his F-105 went down 30 miles west of Hanoi.

All of these men faced ordeals none of us could even dream of, and you two want to diminish the service of a man who had risked his life, to stay with his fellow man.
Well, I bet you risking carpal tunnel is a scary thought to both of you…

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 7:38 PM

McCain wants to secure the border, isn’t that the one thing last year everyone hollered about. Before any amnesty, guest worker program, before any “comprehensive” program, we secure the borders.
Now he says that, commits to that, and it isn’t what you want?

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 5:51

Dear moderate friend. Lest you forget, “No path to citizenship!”, “Border Security”, “Enforce laws on employers who hire illegals”, “Zero benefits to those in country illegally.” etc. etc. etc.

Don’t be delusional to think McVain was or is even near hearing what “Conservatives” are saying. He is a true liberal, Kennedy appeasing, “the race” pandering politician.

Notice, no mention of deporting 15 million. Attrition works.

livermush on July 14, 2008 at 7:38 PM

McCain will never change after all he says they are all Gods children.That means i can never vote for him and if that means a Obama Pres. so be it.

thmcbb on July 14, 2008 at 7:38 PM

“When your forefathers came, there was no illegal-legal. Everyone was welcome at Ellis Island,” the man asserted.

I think this guy is smoking something….

My Great Grandfather was told to go BACK and he was a Dentist! He left and a month later came back and was sent thru to become an American. This guy should possibly STFU!

upinak on July 14, 2008 at 7:41 PM

Just stay in the boiling water like a good little, soon to be cooked, frog.

Jiobaobubai on July 14, 2008 at 7:18 PM

That’s what I thought, your choice is to do nothing.
If you make a good decision, that’s the best, a bad decision, you can change…but making no decision, well that is a nothing, you can’t make it better, you can’t change it, you can’t improve on it…but a weak person would say, but I can’t make it worse either.
On the sands of time lay the bleached bones of the countless many, who sat and waited…and waited died.
NO, we are in this position because people like you and your ilk, sat and waited for “just the right person”, but there was always something wrong with that person, so you waited.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 7:42 PM

livermush on July 14, 2008 at 7:38 PM

Hey there, you might want to speak to your STATE and LOCAL government as WELL! It isn’t JUST the Federal and usually the Federal are going off stolen ID and SS cards UNLIKE the States who are FOR Illegals!

upinak on July 14, 2008 at 7:43 PM

That’s what I thought, your choice is to do nothing.
If you make a good decision, that’s the best, a bad decision, you can change…but making no decision, well that is a nothing, you can’t make it better, you can’t change it, you can’t improve on it…but a weak person would say, but I can’t make it worse either.
On the sands of time lay the bleached bones of the countless many, who sat and waited…and waited died.
NO, we are in this position because people like you and your ilk, sat and waited for “just the right person”, but there was always something wrong with that person, so you waited.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 7:42 PM

How do you know what I am doing?

I am not just doing want YOU want me to do!!

You are just accepting the miserable choice foisted upon you.

Good thing our Founders had a better idea than just accepting what they could get.

So take your lecturing little man and shove it.

Jiobaobubai on July 14, 2008 at 7:48 PM

You really need to get over thinking that everyone who disagrees with you is a hater. It just makes you look desperate.

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 7:14 PM

All they have to do is read your posts…now you are claiming that McCain stayed a POW to save his skin.
You think I am making this up?

He would have been a marked man for scorn. He likely would also have been court martialed as his CO presumably gave him or would have given him a direct order to not accept cut-in-line release. Can you think of any POWs who took an offer of early release?

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 6:37 PM

Does anyone think that any of the shamnesty politicians are going to invite these Mexican Indios and Mezclados to join their elite/exclusive golf clubs?

These are the words of a racist.
You are projecting your thoughts onto others. Some of the wealthiest families in Chicago are Mexican, some of the wealthiest in So. Cal. are Mexicans.
Man do you have a problem with Mexicans, you don’t think they are allowed to golf? Oh, I see, you couch it by saying the immigrants who work the field won’t be allowed to golf with them, will neither will you.

They would probably prefer actual out-and-out slaves but that is illegal.

No, these are words of a racist in a closet…projection it is called.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 7:53 PM

McCain’s remarks to La Raza; Update: McCain tells La Raza that “borders must be secured”

McCain scored big points with those comments.

What did these open border, imbecilic morons expect…super sized wide open borders, free medical, and our social security benefits handed them free, free, free, free, plus amnesty?

byteshredder on July 14, 2008 at 7:55 PM

How do you know what I am doing?

So take your lecturing little man and shove it.

Jiobaobubai on July 14, 2008 at 7:48 PM

Well, seeing as we are in an election cycle, and you are not voting for anyone that can win…I say you are doing nothing by not voting.

My choice is to support neither of the two that will BOTH destroy the rule of law.
Jiobaobubai on July 14, 2008 at 7:18 PM

Now, if you want to post what you are doing, fine…but so far you posted you aren’t doing anything…

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 7:56 PM

livermush on July 14, 2008 at 7:38 PM

And your solution is?….

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 7:57 PM

This is what wholesale screeching and hating gets. Posted today on another thread.
This is vigilante stuff, something conservative should rail against.
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 5:49 PM

It’s not “vigilante stuff”, it’s a regretable mistake. Given that so many illegals use fake ID’s with Social Security numbers that don’t belong to them, it’s not difficult to understand how such a mistake could very easily be made.

The irony is that he was likely the victim of an illegal who fraudulently used his SS number which led to the confusion.

Hollowpoint on July 14, 2008 at 7:58 PM

Sometimes the best action is wait – forever, no – but for a better time – strengthen your position and let your enemy over extend theirs – the long term result is more important.

We have such miserable Republicans in office NOW because over the years we have been voting for the “lesser of two evils.” There are many young-blood Republicans that have bright futures and believe in limited government and we must support them, and at the same time let the McCain style of big-government Republicans know that we are NOT going to support them anymore. We have for many years, and they only crap on us.

I am voting – but will most likely be leaving President blank unless there is a massive changes somewhere.

Jiobaobubai on July 14, 2008 at 8:01 PM

whoops…that should read “…massive change…”

Jiobaobubai on July 14, 2008 at 8:02 PM

- Daniel McCarthy

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 7:01 PM

The other day I said you must be a conservative because you have a sense of humor…however I notice that you most often quote left wing idealogues.
I guess those are the only people who support your beliefs. I guess you can still be a conservative, but only agree with liberals…or at least you can try for awhile.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 8:03 PM

McCain wants to secure the border,

McCain does NOT want to secure the border. And if elected, he will not secure it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is insane or has been on another planet the last ten years.

flenser on July 14, 2008 at 8:06 PM

I guess you can still be a conservative, but only agree with liberals…or at least you can try for awhile.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 8:03 PM

Oh, look! The lefty is telling us who can be a conservative!

flenser on July 14, 2008 at 8:07 PM

McCain.

Latinos are among the hardest working most productive people in our country.

That is a complete lie of course. Latinos are among the least productive people in the country. But what are facts when you are a liberal politician begging for votes?

flenser on July 14, 2008 at 8:09 PM

One single, comprehensive bill — but first we have to assure the American people that the borders are secure,” he said, adding that if politicians fail to do that, “then we don’t pass the legislation.”

¿Que?

Valiant on July 14, 2008 at 8:09 PM

More McCain.

I don’t want to fail again to achieve comprehensive immigration reform. We must prove we have the resources to secure our borders and use them, while respecting the dignity and rights of citizens and legal residents of the United States. When we have achieved our border security goal, we must enact and implement the other parts of practical, fair and necessary immigration policy. We have economic and humanitarian responsibilities as well, and they require no less dedication from us in meeting them.

I’m not sure how even Morrissey can spin this as McCain saying “borders first”.

“We have economic and humanitarian responsibilities as well”

Translation: “My corporate paymasters wishes are my commands. Screw America and Americans.”

flenser on July 14, 2008 at 8:14 PM

“One single, comprehensive bill — but first we have to assure the American people that the borders are secure,” he said, adding that if politicians fail to do that, “then we don’t pass the legislation.”

In other words he has not changed or learned anything. He is repeating the exact same garbage he was trotting out last year. He knows that if we get border security first that his precious amnesty won’t happen, and he wants a bill that ties the two together.

What a whore.

flenser on July 14, 2008 at 8:17 PM

McCain tells La Raza that “borders must be secured”

But only on the condition that his amnesty is granted. In other words the borders “may” be secured, if McCains asking price is met.

flenser on July 14, 2008 at 8:20 PM

Color me unimpressed, Ed. The fact that McCain is speaking to these racist pigs in the first place is further proof that he has no consideration for the American citizen. He told us once already that he “learned his lesson,” but if today’s remarks are any indication, that was another lie, too.

I’m no closer to supporting McCain than I was yesterday.

fourstringfuror on July 14, 2008 at 8:20 PM

. You should stick with smearing his name in regards to something you have facts about.

Where did I smear him? You are deluding again.

Although about 10% escaped (you would say they ran out on their men).

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 7:38 PM

Don’t tell me what I would say. Where have I said anything like that? You are deluding even more than usual.

All they have to do is read your posts…now you are claiming that McCain stayed a POW to save his skin.

That is not what I said. Read my comments again, this time for comprehension. You just keep making things up. Not a good sign at all.

Does anyone think that any of the shamnesty politicians are going to invite these Mexican Indios and Mezclados to join their elite/exclusive golf clubs?

These are the words of a racist.

They most certainly are not. They are the words of someone expressing some sympathy for the exploited and contempt for those who take advantage of them particularly when it means screewing their fellow Americans. Mexican is not a race, BTW.

You are projecting your thoughts onto others.

I am not doing anything of the kind. That seems to be your department though.

They would probably prefer actual out-and-out slaves but that is illegal.

No, these are words of a racist in a closet…projection it is called.

Being against any kind of thing that smacks of slavery is being racist? Thinking that slavery should be illegal is racist? You are completely crazy. It is not called, by any rational person, anything of the kind. A rational person calls it seeing the obvious. You seem to be obsessed with calling those with whom you disagree, and not just me, racists. It just reveals you as being ever more desperate.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 7:53 PM

I can only come, sadly, to the inescapable conclusion that you are indeed actually profoundly delusional.

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 8:21 PM

Ed must be getting quite a workout, with all the water carrying.

Darksean on July 14, 2008 at 8:25 PM

The other day I said you must be a conservative because you have a sense of humor…however I notice that you most often quote left wing idealogues.
I guess those are the only people who support your beliefs. I guess you can still be a conservative, but only agree with liberals…or at least you can try for awhile.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 8:03 PM

There you go again.
- Ronald Reagan

To you everyone you disagree with, that you can’t answer anyway, is a left wing ideologue or a racist.

Grow up and/or seek treatment.

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 8:27 PM

All of these men faced ordeals none of us could even dream of, and you two want to diminish the service of a man who had risked his life, to stay with his fellow man.
Well, I bet you risking carpal tunnel is a scary thought to both of you…

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 7:38 PM

Great posts right2bright. A voice of reason carving through the rabble. If I had more time this evening I’d be posting more in support. How refreshing to read a hotair voice that isn’t a) foaming at the mouth about mexicans b) full of filthy disgusting lies about John McCain’s war record or c) a pseudo-conservative defeatist who is content to bring about 8 years of Obama and Democratic hegemony rather than supporting the GOP.

I like to look on the bright side. Tying down the pseudo-cons here forces them to waste their energies in cyberspace rather than influence voters at large.

Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 8:30 PM

screeching and hating gets.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 5:49 PM

Yet another needed -

There you go again.
- Ronald Reagan

That’s all you seem capable of doing. If you disagree with some one then they must be a racist or a left wing ideologue or screeching or hating.

You are pathetic.

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 8:32 PM

Grow up and/or seek treatment.

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 8:27 PM

You consider Daniel McCarthy a middle of the roader? Is that what you are saying?
Rather then calling names, just tell us you think that I am wrong, that you consider McCarthy a middle or to the right writer.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 8:32 PM

Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 8:30 PM

You know it is easy to get them to foam at the mouth…guote some truths, get them to back up Bush haters like McCarthy, and they end up saying the truth is pathetic.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 8:35 PM

– Daniel McCarthy

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 7:01 PM

The other day I said you must be a conservative because you have a sense of humor…however I notice that you most often quote left wing idealogues.
I guess those are the only people who support your beliefs.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 8:03 PM

Well done right2bright. How funny! Another pseudo-con exposed. Just like Pat ‘fighting the Nazis was unnecessary’ Buchanan, whose ridiculous garbage has become very popular amongst left-wing ideologues.

Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 8:37 PM

How do you know what I am doing?

Jiobaobubai on July 14, 2008 at 7:48 PM

NotAtAllBright believes that he knows better than you what you are doing and even thinking.

I think that he may be insane. But you can not prove to him that he is insane, because you never can prove anything to a lunatic — for that is a part of his insanity and the evidence of it.

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 8:39 PM

You know it is easy to get them to foam at the mouth…guote some truths, get them to back up Bush haters like McCarthy, and they end up saying the truth is pathetic.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 8:35 PM

I’ve noticed that the pseudo-cons don’t address your difficult questions. But then what can they say after resorting to quoting Daniel McCarthy? Instead we just get a foaming frenzy of ad hominums. ‘Tis is a shame, because debate on these threads never then progresses beyond the infantile, but I suppose at least it saves them taking out their frustrations elsewhere.

Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 8:44 PM

He would have been a marked man for scorn. He likely would also have been court martialed as his CO presumably gave him or would have given him a direct order to not accept cut-in-line release. Can you think of any POWs who took an offer of early release?

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 6:37 PM

All they have to do is read your posts…now you are claiming that McCain stayed a POW to save his skin.

That is not what I said. Read my comments again, this time for comprehension. You just keep making things up. Not a good sign at all.

Yeah, looks like I got that one right…I don’t think I need to go on.
I think only one POW was court martialed (Garwood), when it comes to projection, saying he would likely to have been court matialed is from what legal background?

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 8:44 PM

Great posts right2bright. A voice of reason carving through the rabble. If I had more time this evening I’d be posting more in support.

… foaming at the mouth …
… full of filthy disgusting lies
… defeatist

Blah, blah, blah.

Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 8:30 PM

One name calling lunatic is quite enough for right now.

BTW, both your handles are very off the mark.

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 8:47 PM

Oh, look! The lefty is telling us who can be a conservative!

flenser on July 14, 2008 at 8:07 PM

Well, looks like all the MDS’rs are out tonight. Let me see, you think I am liberal because I didn’t want to lose the black vote to the Dems, and I don’t want to lose the Latino vote to the Dems, so I guess that make me a liberal or you a racist because you don’t want or need their vote. I mean, only white men vote in your party, right? See, I can call you names also.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 8:50 PM

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 8:35 PM

provide some links to some of your truths, i know i havent read anything from you except ad hominem and misrepresentations.

chasdal on July 14, 2008 at 8:50 PM

I can only come, sadly, to the inescapable conclusion that you are indeed actually profoundly delusional.

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 8:21 PM

Aren’t you the one posting the anger about the Mexicans coming into America?
I am the one that wants to have a policy to bring selected ones in legally.
Do you want any left in this country?

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 8:52 PM

Aren’t you the one posting the anger about the Mexicans coming into America?
I am the one that wants to have a policy to bring selected ones in legally.

Can you offer any justification for that? Other than “It makes me rich”?

flenser on July 14, 2008 at 8:56 PM

I’ve noticed that the pseudo-cons don’t address your difficult questions. But then what can they say after resorting to quoting Daniel McCarthy? Instead we just get a foaming frenzy of ad hominums. ‘Tis is a shame, because debate on these threads never then progresses beyond the infantile, but I suppose at least it saves them taking out their frustrations elsewhere.

Pax americana on July 14, 2008 at 8:44 PM

Gee, Pax, look how mean MB4 gets, ummmm MB4, do you consider McCarthy a middle of the roader, left wing or right wing leaning writer?

NotAtAllBright believes that he knows better than you what you are doing and even thinking.

I think that he may be insane. But you can not prove to him that he is insane, because you never can prove anything to a lunatic — for that is a part of his insanity and the evidence of it.

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 8:39 PM

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 8:57 PM

chasdal, if you ever see anything from her that is NOT an ad hominem or misrepresentation, make a note of it and we’ll start that flashing red sirien thing going.

flenser on July 14, 2008 at 8:58 PM

I’ve noticed that the pseudo-cons don’t address your difficult questions.

Can you point to any “difficult question” that she posed which was not addressed? I doubt it.

flenser on July 14, 2008 at 8:59 PM

Pandering to racists does not impress me. As for the content of his speech and answers to the questions afterwards, if McCain told me this room was on fire, I’d have to see the flames.

Zorro on July 14, 2008 at 8:59 PM

You are projecting your thoughts onto others. Some of the wealthiest families in Chicago are Mexican, some of the wealthiest in So. Cal. are Mexicans.

but what about the ones streaming across the border?? they are uneducated illerates. they drive down wages for the lower-class we already have and are a drag on social services. check into all teh hospitals in cali that are closing, driven out of business so that illegals can have “free” health care.

chasdal on July 14, 2008 at 9:00 PM

Yeah, looks like I got that one right…

I don’t think you have got anything right yet. You are not going to even get enough McCain points for a single burrito bean at the rate you are going. I did not say that he stayed a POW to save his skin, I, unlike you, don’t think that I can read peoples minds. His motivations may have been selfless or selfish or a combination. He does seem to be pretty selfish now though, that’s for sure. What I said was, from what you yourself block quoted but appear to have not at all understood – “He would have been a marked man for scorn. He likely would also have been court martialed as his CO presumably gave him or would have given him a direct order to not accept cut-in-line release” which is all true.

I don’t think I need to go on.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 8:44 PM

I don’t think that you even think. You just go off half-cocked like a lunatic. A lunatic who is becoming a too time consuming bore to keep bothering with. You are diverting me from more important work like doing things to earn anti-McCain points.

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 9:00 PM

provide some links to some of your truths, i know i havent read anything from you except ad hominem and misrepresentations.

chasdal on July 14, 2008 at 8:50 PM

Do you mean about Daniel McCarthy?

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 9:02 PM

but what about the ones streaming across the border?? they are uneducated illerates. they drive down wages for the lower-class we already have and are a drag on social services. check into all teh hospitals in cali that are closing, driven out of business so that illegals can have “free” health care.

chasdal on July 14, 2008 at 9:00 PM

I have already addressed that in detail.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 9:03 PM

So, I understand from Fox News that McVain wants to pass comprehensive immigration reform amnesty within the first 100 days of office.

On day 101, the America as I have known it will have disappeared.

Sigh.

madmonkphotog on July 14, 2008 at 9:07 PM

He would have been a marked man for scorn. He likely would also have been court martialed as his CO presumably gave him or would have given him a direct order to not accept cut-in-line release” which is all true.

And you don’t consider that saving his skin, okay, you stated it because if he did it he may have been court marialed? that’s not saving his skin? Sorry, I don’t get it. Then why did he stay, to save himself being court marialed or from not being a marked man…I would consider that saving his skin. Maybe you have another definition of saving his skin…oh, you mean he would have been sunburned.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 9:07 PM

*spits on McCain AND his amnesty plans*

KSgop on July 14, 2008 at 9:12 PM

You consider Daniel McCarthy a middle of the roader? Is that what you are saying?
Rather then calling names, just tell us you think that I am wrong, that you consider McCarthy a middle or to the right writer.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 8:32 PM

Why don’t you just read what he says and provide your counter arguments if you can instead of babbling on about if he is middle or to the right or not? What he said wasn’t even particularly controversial or anything that should get someone all hot-and-bothered, so I don’t see why you are going all crazy about it anyway. Oh, that’s right, you are a lunatic and that’s what lunatics do.

As I said, you are a time consuming waste of time.

MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 9:12 PM

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 9:03 PM

oh? how did you “address” that? because it is factual. high school grads arent hopping the border. here’s an excerpt

Education levels reveal the same dismal pattern—nearly half of all Hispanics are not graduating from high school in four years. And the more Hispanic a school district becomes, the greater level of failure for Hispanic students. In the Los Angeles district, 73 percent Hispanic, 60 percent of the students are not graduating. But the real tragedy is that, of those Hispanics who do graduate, only about one in five will have completed a high school curriculum that qualifies for college enrollment. That partly helps to explain why at many campuses of the California State University system, almost half of the incoming class must first take remedial education. Less than 10 percent of those who identify themselves as Hispanic have graduated from college with a bachelor’s degree. I found that teaching Latin to first-generation Mexican-Americans and illegal aliens was valuable not so much as an introduction to the ancient world but as their first experience with remedial English grammar.

chasdal on July 14, 2008 at 9:13 PM

I have already addressed that in detail.

right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 9:03 PM

This is her normal tactic. She never responds to questions.

flenser on July 14, 2008 at 9:14 PM

Some of the wealthiest families in Chicago are Mexican, some of the wealthiest in So. Cal. are Mexicans.

Including yours?

flenser on July 14, 2008 at 9:16 PM

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4 5