McCain’s remarks to La Raza; Update: McCain tells La Raza that “borders must be secured”
posted at 2:45 pm on July 14, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Update II: The Washington Post reports that McCain took a couple of tough questions from the La Raza audience — and the responses might surprise a few people:
But the questioner continued to press McCain, asking whether he would address border security and immigration reform in a single bill. “One single bill?” he asked.
At that point, McCain reverted to the position he adopted earlier this year during the GOP primary, where he suggested the country should take on the question of border enforcement before addressing questions like guest workers and amnesty for undocumented workers. “One single, comprehensive bill — but first we have to assure the American people that the borders are secure,” he said, adding that if politicians fail to do that, “then we don’t pass the legislation.”
After a couple of questions a La Raza official suggested the senator had to leave, but McCain — who joked that in light of the “tough questions” he should have stuck to his prepared speech — insisted he would take a couple more. At one point he even tossed his microphone into the audience, at which point the questioner asked whether McCain would commit to ending the “inhumane raids” that separate illegal immigrants from their babies and small children.
“When your forefathers came, there was no illegal-legal. Everyone was welcome at Ellis Island,” the man asserted.
But McCain refused to rule out the idea of raids on illegal immigrants, saying, “The United States has to have secure borders sir, and that’s necessary, even if you disagree.”
That doesn’t sound like McCain was interested in a complete panderfest — and it gives more credence to his borders-first position.
Original post follows …
=================
The McCain campaign has released John McCain’s speech to La Raza today, one day after Barack Obama characterized ICE raids as a form of terrorism against American communities. The speech focuses more on economics than it does on immigration policy. At least half of the speech hits themes such as tax policy, free trade with Latin America, and education policy, emphasizing pro-growth strategies rather than the top-down redistributionist policies Obama offers.
At the end, he says the following about immigration:
Let me address one other issue important to all of us. As you know, I and many other colleagues twice attempted to pass comprehensive immigration legislation to fix our broken borders; ensure respect for the laws of this country; recognize the important economic contribution of immigrant laborers; apprehend those who came here illegally to commit crimes; and deal practically and humanely with those who came here, as my distant ancestors did, to build a better, safer life for their families, without excusing the fact they came here illegally or granting them privileges before those who have been waiting their turn outside the country. Many Americans did not believe us when we said we would secure our borders, and so we failed in our efforts. I don’t want to fail again to achieve comprehensive immigration reform. We must prove we have the resources to secure our borders and use them, while respecting the dignity and rights of citizens and legal residents of the United States. When we have achieved our border security goal, we must enact and implement the other parts of practical, fair and necessary immigration policy. We have economic and humanitarian responsibilities as well, and they require no less dedication from us in meeting them.
He also added this in response to charges Obama made at the La Raza conference yesterday:
I spoke recently at both the NALEO and LULAC conferences, as did Senator Obama. I did not use those occasions to criticize Senator Obama. I would prefer not to do so today. But he suggested in his speeches there and here, that I turned my back on comprehensive reform out of political necessity. I feel I must, as they say, correct the record. At a moment of great difficulty in my campaign, when my critics said it would be political suicide for me to do so, I helped author with Senator Kennedy comprehensive immigration reform, and fought for its passage. I cast a lot of hard votes, as did the other Republicans and Democrats who joined our bipartisan effort. So did Senator Kennedy. I took my lumps for it without complaint. My campaign was written off as a lost cause. I did so not just because I believed it was the right thing to do for Hispanic Americans. It was the right thing to do for all Americans. Senator Obama declined to cast some of those tough votes. He voted for and even sponsored amendments that were intended to kill the legislation, amendments that Senator Kennedy and I voted against. I never ask for any special privileges from anyone just for having done the right thing. Doing my duty to my country is its own reward. But Ido ask for your trust that when I say, I remain committed to fair, practical and comprehensive immigration reform, I mean it. I think I have earned that trust.
So McCain will tell La Raza that border security has to come first. He also put Obama to the left of Ted Kennedy and painted him as the real chameleon on immigration.
Most of the speech has been embargoed until delivery, so I will update this post at that time with the full text. Michelle, of course, has already posted her translation ….
Update: Full speech added:
Thank you, Jane, for that kind introduction. Thank you, also to the leadership of the National Council of La Raza, and its board of directors. I’m very pleased to be with you again to discuss some of the issues in this campaign that most concern you. As you know, this isn’t my first address to La Raza. I’m proud to have worked hard over the years with many friends here and elsewhere to make sure Americans of Hispanic heritage are appreciated for their contributions to the prosperity, security and culture of the United States, and to improve opportunities for your continued success, not for your sake alone but for the benefit of the entire nation. I also want to thank La Raza’s former CEO, Raul Yzaguirre, for being here today, and for the privilege of over twenty years of friendship and counsel he has so generously given me. And to my fellow Arizonans here today, who have given me the great honor of serving you in the United States Senate, thank you from the bottom of my heart. With your votes, advice and encouragement you have helped me to be a better public servant and a better American, and I am in your debt.
There are several issues I want to discuss today, but let me begin with the one that concerns all Americans the most — our economy. Over 400,000 people have lost their jobs since December, and the rate of new job creation has fallen sharply. Americans are worried about the security of their current job, and they’re worried that they, their kids and their neighbors may not find good jobs and new opportunities in the future. To make matters worse, gas is over $4 a gallon and the price of oil has nearly doubled in the last year. The cost of everything from energy to food is rising.
I have a plan to grow the economy, create more and better jobs, and get America moving again. I have a plan to reform government, achieve energy security, and ensure that healthcare and a quality education are affordable and available for all. I believe the role of government is to unleash the creativity, ingenuity and hard work of the American people, and make it easier to create jobs.
At its core, the economy isn’t the sum of an array of bewildering statistics. It’s about where Americans work, how they live, how they pay their bills today and save for tomorrow. It’s about small businesses opening their doors, hiring employees and growing. It’s about giving workers the education and training to find a good job and prosper in it. It’s about the aspirations of the American people to build a better life for their families; dreams that begin with a job.
So how are we going to create good jobs? Let’s start with small businesses, which create the majority of all jobs. A recent report says small businesses have created 233,000 jobs so far this year while other sectors are losing jobs. Small businesses are the job engine of America, and I will make it easier for them to grow and create more jobs. There are two million Latino owned businesses in America, many of them started by Latinas. The first consideration we should have when debating tax policy is how we can help those companies grow and increase the prosperity of the millions of American families whose economic security depends on their success.
It is a terrible mistake to raise taxes during an economic downturn. Increasing the tax burden on Americans impedes job growth, discourages innovation and makes us less competitive. The many small business owners who pay individual tax rates would take strong exception to the idea that keeping them low helps no one but the wealthiest Americans. Taking more money from small businesses deprives them of the capital they need to invest and grow and hire. Jobs are the most important thing our economy creates. When you raise taxes in a bad economy you eliminate jobs. I’m not going to let that happen, I will keep taxes low and cut them where I can. For those of you with children, I will double the child deduction from $3500 to $7000 for every dependent, in every family in America. I will reduce the estate tax to fifteen percent, so parents who have spent long years working hard to build a business, and provide a decent living to t heir employees, can leave the product of a lifetime of labor and love to their children.
La Raza runs one of the largest housing counseling programs in the country that has helped tens of thousands of Latinos become homeowners with secure mortgages. But millions of Americans have been hurt by the mortgage crisis and falling home values, and many in the Hispanic community have been especially hard hit. I want to help people who genuinely need assistance in these tough times, not speculators and lenders who contributed to this mess and didn’t follow the basics of good business practice. I am committed to making sure families who want to hold onto their home have a chance to do so. My HOME plan allows families who need help to apply — either at their local Post Office or online — for a new, guaranteed, fixed-rate, 30-year mortgage that will allow them to remain in their home, and raise their family with dignity.
To get our economy on track again, and create new and better jobs, we need to compete more, not less, in the global economy. We can’t build walls to foreign competition, and we shouldn’t want to. America is the biggest exporter, importer, producer, manufacturer, and innovator in the world. That’s why I reject the false virtues of economic isolationism. Any confident, competent country and its government should embrace competition - it makes us stronger - not hide from our competitors and cheat our consumers and workers. We can compete and win, as we always have, or we can be left behind. Lowering barriers to trade creates more and better jobs, and higher wages. It keeps inflation under control. It makes goods more affordable for low- and middle-income consumers. Ninety-five percent of the world’s consumers live outside the U.S. Our future prosperity depends on opening more of these markets, not closing them.
I recently traveled to Colombia and Mexico because I understand how vitally important it is to the prosperity and security of our country to strengthen our trade, investment and diplomatic ties to other countries in our hemisphere. I have often traveled over the years to Central and South America, and I have learned our relationships there are as important, if not more important, as any relationships we have in the world. It is the reason why I’m an unapologetic supporter of NAFTA, the Central American Free Trade Agreement, and the Colombian Free Trade Agreement, and why I believe a hemispheric free trade agreement is a worthy and necessary goal whose time has come. And while it is surely not my intention to become my opponent’s scheduler, I hope Senator Obama soon visits some of the other countries of the Americas for the first time. Were he to do so, I think he, too, would see that stronger economic bonds with our neighbo rs and the closer friendships they encourage, are a great benefit in many ways to our country. Colombian President Uribe, a man of courage and vision, has risked much to combat the narco-terrorists of FARC for the sake of all peoples in this hemisphere. His recent leadership in freeing Americans held hostage for years should earn him the respect and gratitude of all Americans. And we should emulate his statesmanship by passing the trade agreement Colombia and the United States have negotiated, and which both countries would greatly benefit from.
I know that not all Americans have prospered in the global economy. And for those who, through no fault of their own, have lost their job to foreign competition, I have proposed a comprehensive reform of our unemployment insurance and worker retraining programs. We will use our community colleges to help train workers for specific opportunities in their communities. And for workers of a certain age who have lost a job that won’t come back, if they move rapidly to a new job we’ll help make up the difference in wages between their old job and the new one.
In the global economy what you learn is what you earn. Today, studies show that half of Hispanics entering high school do not graduate with their class. By the 12th grade, U.S. students in math and science score near the bottom of all industrialized nations. Many parents fear their children won’t have the same opportunities they had. That is unacceptable in a country as great as ours. In many schools, particularly where people are struggling the hardest, the situation is dire, and I believe poses the civil rights challenge of our time. We need to shake up failed school bureaucracies with competition; hold schools accountable for results; strengthen math, science, technology and engineering curriculums; empower parents with choice; remove barriers to qualified instructors, attract and reward superior teachers, and have a fair but sure process to weed out incompetents. I’m a strong believer in charter schools. La Raza has hel ped establish 50 new charter schools and the results they are producing are very encouraging. Hispanics work hard and sacrifice a lot because their most cherished dreams are the ones they hold for their children. You understand the importance of early childhood development and the active role parents must play in their children’s education to make sure they graduate on time and with an excellent opportunity to live happy and prosperous lives. You deserve a greater say in deciding how your children are educated, and I am committed to making sure you do.
Let me address one other issue important to all of us. As you know, I and many other colleagues twice attempted to pass comprehensive immigration legislation to fix our broken borders; ensure respect for the laws of this country; recognize the important economic contribution of immigrant laborers; apprehend those who came here illegally to commit crimes; and deal practically and humanely with those who came here, as my distant ancestors did, to build a better, safer life for their families, without excusing the fact they came here illegally or granting them privileges before those who have been waiting their turn outside the country. Many Americans did not believe us when we said we would secure our borders, and so we failed in our efforts. I don’t want to fail again to achieve comprehensive immigration reform. We must prove we have the resources to secure our borders and use them, while respecting the dignity and rights of citizens and legal residents of the United States. When we have achieved our border security goal, we must enact and implement the other parts of practical, fair and necessary immigration policy. We have economic and humanitarian responsibilities as well, and they require no less dedication from us in meeting them.
Several years ago, the leading newspaper in my state published an article putting faces on the tragic human costs of illegal immigration, and I would like to briefly quote from it:
“Maria Hernandez Perez was No. 93. She was almost 2. She had thick brown hair and eyes the color of chocolate.
“Kelia Velazquez-Gonzales, 16, carried a Bible in her backpack. She was No. 109
“John Doe, No. 143, died with a rosary encircling his neck. His eyes were wide open.”
We can’t let immigrants break our laws with impunity. We can’t leave our borders undefended. But these people are God’s children, who wanted simply to be Americans, and we cannot forget the humanity God commands of us as we seek a remedy to this problem.
I spoke recently at both the NALEO and LULAC conferences, as did Senator Obama. I did not use those occasions to criticize Senator Obama. I would prefer not to do so today. But he suggested in his speeches there and here, that I turned my back on comprehensive reform out of political necessity. I feel I must, as they say, correct the record. At a moment of great difficulty in my campaign, when my critics said it would be political suicide for me to do so, I helped author with Senator Kennedy comprehensive immigration reform, and fought for its passage. I cast a lot of hard votes, as did the other Republicans and Democrats who joined our bipartisan effort. So did Senator Kennedy. I took my lumps for it without complaint. My campaign was written off as a lost cause. I did so not just because I believed it was the right thing to do for Hispanic Americans. It was the right thing to do for all Americans. Senator Obama declined t o cast some of those tough votes. He voted for and even sponsored amendments that were intended to kill the legislation, amendments that Senator Kennedy and I voted against. I never ask for any special privileges from anyone just for having done the right thing. Doing my duty to my country is its own reward. But I do ask for your trust that when I say, I remain committed to fair, practical and comprehensive immigration reform, I mean it. I think I have earned that trust.
Let me close by expressing my respect and gratitude for the contributions of Hispanic-Americans to the culture, economy and security of the country I have served all my adult life. I represent Arizona where Spanish was spoken before English was, and where the character and prosperity of our state owes a great deal to the many Arizonans of Hispanic descent who live there. And I know this country, which I love more than almost anything, would be the poorer were we deprived of the patriotism, industry and decency of those millions of Americans whose families came here from other countries in our hemisphere. Latinos are among the hardest working most productive people in our country. The strength of your religious faith and the strength and closeness of your families are a great force for social stability and individual happiness. In my recent visit to Mexico, I visited the Shrine of the Virgin of Guadalupe, and was greatly mov ed by the experience, and came to appreciate all the more your deep devotion to the God who created us and loves us all equally. I will honor your contributions to America for as long as I live. We would not be the special country we are without you.
I know many of you are Democrats, and many of you would usually vote for the presidential candidate of that party. I know I must work hard to win your votes, but you have always given me a respectful hearing, and I appreciate it. I know many of you were disappointed and hurt by those who used the debate on immigration last year, not to respectfully debate the issue, as most did, but to denigrate the contributions of Hispanics to our great country. I denounced those insults then, and I denounce them today. My friends, you know me. One of my proudest achievements as a politician is to have won 75 percent of the Hispanic vote in Arizona in my last re-election. I believe I’m the only member of the Senate to have twice won your Congressional Leadership Award, a distinction I am also very proud of. Senator Obama is a fine man, and an inspiring public figure. All Americans should be proud of his success. I also greatly admire Sena tor Hillary Clinton, and value her friendship. She, too, would have been a very worthy opponent. But I intend to compete for your votes by continuing to earn your trust.
When I was in prison in Vietnam, I like other of my fellow POWs, was offered early release by my captors. Most of us refused because we were bound to our code of conduct, which said those who had been captured the earliest had to be released the soonest. My friend, Everett Alvarez, a brave American of Mexican descent, had been shot down years before I was, and had suffered for his country much more and much longer than I had. To leave him behind would have shamed us. When you take the solemn stroll along that wall of black granite on the national Mall, it is hard not to notice the many names such as Rodriguez, Hernandez, and Lopez that so sadly adorn it. When you visit Iraq and Afghanistan you will meet some of the thousands of Hispanic-Americans who serve there, and many of those who risk their lives to protect the rest of us do not yet possess the rights and privileges of full citizenship in the country they love so well. To love your country, as I discovered in Vietnam, is to love your countrymen. Those men and women are my brothers and sisters, my fellow Americans, an association that means more to me than any other. As a private citizen or as your President, I will never, never do anything to dishonor our obligations to them and their families or to forget what they and their ancestors have done to make this country the beautiful, bountiful, blessed place we love.
Thank you.
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Yep McCain will indeed bankrupt the federal government by allowing every poor Mexicans to live here. There goes some more hospital and more crowded schools and more crimes and higher taxes to pay for those 50+ million poor Mexicans.
BroncosRock on July 14, 2008 at 2:49 PM
Our biggest security threat from South America isn’t the borders, its food safety. We import a lot of veggies from down there, and apparently they got a lot of e coli on them.
Support American Farmers!
Vincenzo on July 14, 2008 at 2:49 PM
God help us - McCain and La Raza - a pair of like interests.
I can’t stand McCain - and I don’t even know what he has to say to this group.
How did we get here with this creep.
jake-the-goose on July 14, 2008 at 2:50 PM
If these two keep up their attempts to pre-emptively surrender US sovereignty to the hordes, publicly, then I think they are both going to be shocked by the results. How quickly people forget Spitzer and driver’s licenses …
progressoverpeace on July 14, 2008 at 2:51 PM
Comprehensive = Screw the American citizens
Zetterson on July 14, 2008 at 2:53 PM
And it will be up to only 4 people to determine when the border is secure - Schwarzenegger, Napolitano, Richardson, and Perry.
Mark1971 on July 14, 2008 at 2:53 PM
It doesn’t matter if they came here illegally to help old ladies across the street. They committed a crime by crossing the border, regardless what they do once inside. Once again, McCain is being intentionally deceptive.
More generally speaking, why is all of this debate focused solely on Mexicans? Let’s not forget there are plenty of people from other countries sneaking in. This pandering to angry little Mexicans is grotesque and disgusting.
fourstringfuror on July 14, 2008 at 2:54 PM
I guess I will have to go to my grave without ever understanding just what John McCain means by those words.
RushBaby on July 14, 2008 at 2:54 PM
BTW, unsurprisingly, Michelle’s translation is spot on.
Zetterson on July 14, 2008 at 2:55 PM
Did John McCain’s ancestors come here illegally? That might explain alot.
Zetterson on July 14, 2008 at 2:57 PM
Wrong again, esse. I don’t trust you with anything, much less your constitutional duty to protect American citizens from foreign invasion.
fourstringfuror on July 14, 2008 at 2:57 PM
John McCain is such a liar. I’m ashamed that he is the Republican nominee.
Zetterson on July 14, 2008 at 2:58 PM
As much as I like and respect Michelle, I didn’t care for that too much.
Again, I feel it’s far too important to get McCain in the White House first, then pressure him on immigration, and whatever else.
JetBoy on July 14, 2008 at 2:59 PM
Yes, sometimes the truth does hurt.
Zetterson on July 14, 2008 at 3:00 PM
La Raza should never, ever be recognized for anything other than a left wing, Marxist, sovereignty hating fascist organization bent on founding Aztlan… No recognition, ever! Well, recognition enough to be sure it can be destroyed, that is.
MNDavenotPC on July 14, 2008 at 3:02 PM
The Pandermeister strikes again! I can’t keep up between these two idiots that are running for POTUS! Nice job DNC and RNC! You certainly stood up, represented the American people and put forth the best and the brightest for the nation to select as the next protector of our national borders…
sabbott on July 14, 2008 at 3:04 PM
Ed, why did you bold what you did? What makes you think that particular statement is nothing more than lip service, even something he intends to honor?
He’s shown time and again that the ONLY reason he’s even considering closing the borders at all is because he got the impression that Americans not wanting amnesty meant wanting to secure the borders (of which is only a PART) first. Does anyone honestly think he would gave a rat’s arse about securing the borders on his own?
The other thing that really chaps my hide is this:
Um…Juan…that’s every single illegal alien in our country. What part of illegal do you not understand?
Darksean on July 14, 2008 at 3:05 PM
Why should we have to wait??
Darksean on July 14, 2008 at 3:06 PM
Hmm. Democrats want Obama elected. They trash McCain. Conservatives (supposedly) Don’t want Obama elected, and trash McCain.
I sure enjoyed “operation chaos” when it was only going on with the demcorats while their nominating process was still ongoing. For them, it’s just about over. Now that it is in full force with us, it sucks. And the democrats must be so overjoyed to see so many conservatives trashing McCain to the benefit of Obama, because that is what is going to occur if enough conservatives are pissed off at McCain, and don’t vote for him, while millions of democrats vote for Obama. And yes, even the Hillary supporters are going to be voting for Obama.
wise_man on July 14, 2008 at 3:08 PM
Think you’ll have a better chance at getting what you want with Obama?
And because McCain can’t do anything about it on the campaign trail…
JetBoy on July 14, 2008 at 3:09 PM
I agree. McCain is maddening on immigration reform, but he doesn’t trot out the “terrorism” meme to try to undermine enforcement of our existing laws the way Obama does. Now THAT’s really outrageous.
La Raza is wholly racist.
NTWR on July 14, 2008 at 3:12 PM
Prefer McCain “pander” to you?
JetBoy on July 14, 2008 at 3:12 PM
What is he trying to say here? That his political failure is because of our lack of faith? That we’re responsible? That they had the perfect plan, and it would have all worked out if it wasn’t for those meddling non-believers? What kind of clusterfucked hubris is this? Asshole.
You failed because we don’t trust you or your shabby, politically expedient, ephemeral legislation. Trust, Johnny, or the shameful lack of it, is at the heart of your (collective) problems. We don’t trust you to do your job with integrity and competence. That is why you fail. You are to blame.
LimeyGeek on July 14, 2008 at 3:13 PM
Why is McCain talking to La Raza in the first place? It’s a favor for Mr. Hernandez?
Spirit of 1776 on July 14, 2008 at 3:14 PM
Right. McShame uses the ‘bigot’ theme to undermine enforcement of our existing laws.
progressoverpeace on July 14, 2008 at 3:14 PM
One of Buckley’s criticisms of McCarthy was his ability to “arouse reserves of odium and exaggeration” in his opponents.
amerpundit on July 14, 2008 at 3:16 PM
That is irrelevant to my question. My question is, why should we have to wait to pressure him until after he gets elected?
He can’t? Is he suddenly not a member of the Senate?
Darksean on July 14, 2008 at 3:19 PM
“La Raza.” I always get confused. Are they talking about Daytona, or Talladega, the Indy 500 or Laguna Seca?
OhEssYouCowboys on July 14, 2008 at 3:19 PM
He is, but the controlling Democrats have no interest in raising the issue of immigration this close to an election.
amerpundit on July 14, 2008 at 3:20 PM
Thats the key… I want to know what he means by that.
Does that mean 1 million a year? 100,000 a year? NONE?
Or is it left fuzzy so you can declare victory without any actual measurable success?
Enquiring minds want to know…
Romeo13 on July 14, 2008 at 3:21 PM
No matter how sincere he is about fixing the borders, it will do no good for the likes of La Raza because they love the broken borders. It would be like promising Muslims that you will work to stop violence in the name of Allah.
Grafted on July 14, 2008 at 3:21 PM
Yeah but bigot is used so often on us “Nationalists” that it doesn’t compare to being compared to terrorists.
That said, I pledged long ago I wouldn’t defend McCain, only try to prevent Obama.
NTWR on July 14, 2008 at 3:24 PM
Fair enough, though lame. If he is the great aisle-reacher-acrosser (and wouldn’t it be nice if he did that just once for conservatism) this shouldn’t stop him.
But my response was to a statement that McCain can’t do anything on the campaign trail. The thing is, he CAN do something about it on the campaign trail. Though instead of pandering to illegals maybe he should actually listen to his constituency and alter his agenda.
Everyone seems to forget that it is incumbent upon McCain to EARN our vote. It is not incumbent upon us to vote for him just because.
Darksean on July 14, 2008 at 3:24 PM
The irony…………. you are paying for La Raza’s actions.
Happy?
Fools, all……..
Seven Percent Solution on July 14, 2008 at 3:26 PM
I hear you. It’s just that there’s no real light between them on this issue. A little semantics, here and there.
progressoverpeace on July 14, 2008 at 3:27 PM
Let me help you. These are just words. They have no meaning. Its pointless to attempt to extract useful information from these words. After closely examining John McCain for years I can tell you exactly what he intends to do once he is no longer hampered by these pesky elections. Amnesty without border enforcement. Period.
Zetterson on July 14, 2008 at 3:28 PM
Michelle’s translation is perfect, even if it is en anglais.
And in the second clip … Lord, can you imagine McCain ever begging that way to the base of his party?
BigD on July 14, 2008 at 3:31 PM
Keep sending those McCain pesos as donations to McCain, the RNC, NRCC, NRSC, etc. and tell them why!!
They have not wised up yet and keeping sending me requests for donations. I will continue to send them the “pesos” and tell them that the candidate of la raza will get neither my vote nor my money, nor will the party that remains silent about his pandering the the la-KKK-raza.
la raza is a terrorist organization and should be dismantled, not honored with the presence of a Presidential candidate.
Jiobaobubai on July 14, 2008 at 3:32 PM
Why should we believe ANYthing this hamster-cheeked phony says? “Mavericks” are untrustworthy by definition.
Spanglemaker on July 14, 2008 at 3:33 PM
C’mon now…the primaries are over. Like it or not… John McCain or Barack Obama…one of those two WILL be the next president. By not voting for McCain, it allows one more vote for Obama to go unchallenged. THAT’S the bottom line.
And I purposely mentioned “on the campaign trail” because as we all know he, nor Obama, is fully focused on Senate goings-on while campaigning.
Anyway, even if McCain were to come out tomorrow and say “I’ll deport all illegals and build a 60-foot wall along the entire Mexican border”, you guys will still say “I don’t believe him”.
JetBoy on July 14, 2008 at 3:33 PM
And guess what, she got it exactamente right.
But then Juan “Sucks Socks” McForkedTongue is so transparent that even a child of five could see right through him.
Somebody go fetch a child of five to explain it to anyone who does not yet understand.
MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 3:34 PM
La Raza is a communist, left wing organization and ANY right thinking republican has zero business speaking to, speaking of, thinking about or even saying their name! Giving them this forum is idiotic by John McCain and the fact that this doesn’t matter to him says a great deal about his core beliefs…or lack thereof…
sabbott on July 14, 2008 at 3:35 PM
I hope all the conservative ‘whiners’ here will be happy with Obama. You people truly disgust me…You want to put Obama in office, just because u are mad at McCain. You need to get off your high and mighty horses and think about what ur whining is going to lead to. I don’t agree with McCain on everything, but you people are pathetic.
This election is way more important than just immigration. YOu have terroism, Iran, the economy, taxes, and u all are always whining about McCain and immigration. You people make me so angry sometimes, that i wonder what is wrong with you people. There are huge things at stakein this election, and the media is in the tank for Obama. We are fighting into a head wind, and all I hear is whining about McCain.
I hope u are happy with Obama. nonsense.
Chudi on July 14, 2008 at 3:37 PM
Instant credibility in 2 steps:
1) Let Juan Hernandez go.
2) Move toward funding fence.
Spirit of 1776 on July 14, 2008 at 3:37 PM
Oh that will work real well. Surly you jest. If you don’t you must be having your McKoolaid by IV push.
MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 3:38 PM
Byron York reports that McCain also said:
The new McCAin campaign: pandering is out; groveling is in.
james23 on July 14, 2008 at 3:40 PM
Why did he think it was the right thing to do for Hispanic-Americans? They wanted amnesty and access to the welfare state for 20 million criminals?
misterpeasea on July 14, 2008 at 3:40 PM
I’m really not so sure about that. Remember that Ross Perot got almost 20%, and that was in a race with much less retarded candidates and Perot had done the hokey-pokey in and out of the race, whining about his daughter’s wedding having been sabotaged …
In this race, one candidate is almost hated by his “base” and the other has so utterly fallen apart and dropped so far below expectations as to have begun a massive demoralization of his base. Both are taking the HUGELY unpopular view on illegals, that has burned everyone who tried it before. True, some have recovered, but only when the illegal issue is not being discussed.
I don’t think we have seen the end of the surprises of this election. I hope not!
progressoverpeace on July 14, 2008 at 3:41 PM
Frankly yes. With Obama, the shape shifter, it’s “Like a box of chocolates, you never know for sure what you are going to get”, so there just might, just might, be some hope.
With Juan “Sucks Socks” McBernie we know exactly what we are going to get - Totally scroomed!!!
MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 3:42 PM
So, you are in fact saying that it is not incumbent upon McCain to earn my vote…that I have to vote for him regardless of what he says or does?
By your logic, had Harry Reid secured the Republican nomination, you would be on here crowing about how we need to vote for Harry Reid, because not doing so would give Obama the Presidency and not doing so would be un-American! Right?
Darksean on July 14, 2008 at 3:42 PM
1) Juan Hernandez is a total tool. Nothing would make me happier than to see a bootmark on his behind…but Hernandez is an insignificant point. 2) McCain has said ad nauseum that he’s going to build the fence.
But again, the McCain-deranged won’t believe anything he says anyway, so what’s the difference?
It’ll work better with Obama, will it?
JetBoy on July 14, 2008 at 3:43 PM
Chudi:
Voting for the “lesser of two evils” gave us the current batch of useless, big-government, gutless Republicans that we now have.
At some point you have to stand for something, and if you keep steeping backward every time a hard decision is required, you eventually fall off the cliff any way.
Whether it’s al queda or la raza we’re facing similar dangerous enemies who want to destroy America and EACH of the candidates wants to help them.
At some point the Founders of this country stood and traded gun fire with the British at great obvious risk, and compromise - when it is only one side giving up anything - only buys you time, in the end you must fight or lose.
Jiobaobubai on July 14, 2008 at 3:43 PM
Can somebody explain to me the logic in this?
We support McCain now when he really needs us to get to his goal of being elected President. That is, when we have some leverage over him, we don’t use it to hold his feet to the fire.
Then, once he’s achieved his goal, and he doesn’t need us anymore, we pressure him. That is, once we have no leverage over him, we pressure him.
misterpeasea on July 14, 2008 at 3:45 PM
Before I knew Shamnesty’s name
And heard it’s wail and whinin’
I had a country and it had me
And the sun was always shinin’
But then one day McCain betrayed me
And left me far behind him
And now I’m lost, so gone and lost
Not even God can find me
MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 3:45 PM
SECOND LOOK AT HUCKSTER VS HER MAJESTY???
a capella on July 14, 2008 at 3:47 PM
You’ve capsulized the sycophants’ “logic” concisely. I’d like an actual, rational explanation to this myself.
Darksean on July 14, 2008 at 3:47 PM
If you don’t vote for the ‘lesser of two evils’ then you are guaranteed to get the ‘greater of two evils.’ Incidentally, the democrats don’t want you to vote for the ‘lesser of two evils’ because they want Barack Obama to win this november. Some people don’t like the idea of giving the election to the democrats. Some don’t seem to care.
Knowing the facts, why is it that you don’t care if Obama is elected this november?
wise_man on July 14, 2008 at 3:48 PM
Perot may have gotten almost 20%, but still that’s nowhere near enough to have put him in the White House. Be real…it’s McCain or Obama. Who else is there anyway, Bob Barr? bleech…
*sigh*…At least come up with a plausible “what if” scenario…That one makes no sense. I understand what you’re trying to say, but John McCain is not Harry Reid.
JetBoy on July 14, 2008 at 3:48 PM
Nope. Because you are incapable of understanding logic.
wise_man on July 14, 2008 at 3:49 PM
Help is on the way! From Aesop. Here’s how it works.
One day, a man named John McCain looked around at the senate where he was a long time senator and decided that he wanted a change. So he set out on a journey through caucuses and primaries. He climbed over some candidates and went around others until he reached the Republican nomination.
The coming Presidential race would be a tough one, and so John McCain stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn’t see any way to win on his own. So he thought that he would probably lose.Suddenly, he saw some naive conservatives blogging at a conservative web site. He decided to ask them for help in winning the election. “Would you be so kind, my friends, as to give me a hand in winning the election?”
“Well now, Senator McCain! How do we know that if we help you, you wont betray us?” asked the conservatives hesitantly.
“Because,” senator McCain replied, “If I betray you, then I would fail too, for you see I cannot govern without your support!”
Now this seemed to make some sense to the conservatives. But they asked. “What about when you get close to being elected? You could still start to betray us and might still win anyway!”
“This is true,” agreed senator McCain, “But I might well not be able to get enough conservative turnout to win the presidency!”
“Alright then…how do we know you wont just wait till you get elected and then betray us?” said the conservatives.
“Ahh…,” crooned senator McCain, “Because you see, once you’ve helped to make me president, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with betrayal, now would it?”
So the conservatives agreed to take help senator McCain get elected president. He edged out Barak Obama in a nail-bitting race and was inaugurated in January of the year 2009. Now president McCain immediately got a democratic majority in congress to enact full amnesty for all illegals in the United States and all of their relatives. He also nominated Hillary Clinton to the U.S. Supreme court along with Senator Teddy Kennedy’s wife. Both were confirmed.
.
“You fool!” croaked the conservatives, “You have betrayed us and you will never get a second term. Why on earth did you do that?”
Now president McCain shrugged and snickered and did a little jig..
“I could not help myself. It is my nature.”
MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 3:50 PM
Do you really think the LaRaza people, and/or illegals, give a crap about who panders to them more?
The liberal Republicans always say that this group largely shares Republican/conservative values of religious faith, family values, etc. McCain is appealing to them on privileges and benefits.
BigD on July 14, 2008 at 3:50 PM
Maybe he just needs a great big McKoolaid IV push like the one you get every day. That would probably bring him around.
MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 3:53 PM
If evil succeeds - whether the lesser or greater - it WILL NOT be with my help. It will be with me fighting BOTH of them every damn inch of the way.
Someone else mentioned leverage - McCain doesn’t give a damn about us - and if he is already in office what leverage will we have - he will just flip us the bird as he ALWAYS has as a senator.
If we do not explain the fact that he WILL NOT WIN without us, then maybe, just maybe he will get the hint. I doubt it, but the last chance we have with the fool is to hold the Presidency away from him if he does not have a quick and sudden epiphany.
Jiobaobubai on July 14, 2008 at 3:54 PM
That’s not what I said. Go reread my comment. Read it for comprehension this time.
MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 3:55 PM
Can someone explain to me the logic of throwing away more important issues like the WoT, national security, the economy, gas prices, cutting government spending, etc over an issue that for decades we’ve all turned a blind eye to, and all of a sudden seems to be on the verge of destroying America?
I still haven’t heard one valid, realistic solution to illegals. So far it’s been “crack down on employers” and “cut off the welfare”. Then in the same breath y’all get offended if I say “mass deportation”…which is what you really want.
I believe no one….NO ONE…is going to truly crack down on illegals. Not even McCain. No one in the primaries would have either. Not even Tancredo.
JetBoy on July 14, 2008 at 3:56 PM
He made a bad bill that would have punished illegal immigrants too leniently. Since then, he’s been lied about (”amnesty”), hated, & slammed to the point where his critics are pushing us toward a President Barack Obama. Nice.
jgapinoy on July 14, 2008 at 3:56 PM
Obama and the democrats are pleased with your fantasy about McCain. They will hold you in high regard when Obama is elected president because so many conservatives didn’t vote for McCain.
So what flavor is your ObamaKoolaid IV?
wise_man on July 14, 2008 at 3:57 PM
MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 3:58 PM
Quite a compliment, coming from someone who never uses logic.
Say, _man, am I still a LYING LIAR WHO LIES ABOUT JOHN MCCAIN!!?!?!?!?!?!
misterpeasea on July 14, 2008 at 3:58 PM
The reason you are sighing is not because it isn’t plausible. It is because it blatantly exposes your flawed reasoning. You want people to vote for McCain regardless of their personal convictions. If you were to follow the same path as you are trying with McCain that you state we should all follow, you should be saying the same thing for Harry Reid.
Darksean on July 14, 2008 at 4:02 PM
I’m sorry JetBoy, but how old are you? 10?
BigD on July 14, 2008 at 4:02 PM
I wonder if “wise_man” and “JetBoy” have got enough McCain points yet to at least get one bean burrito to share. They must be getting very hungry. One bean burrito won’t go far but at least Terrye is not here so they wouldn’t have to share with her anyway.
MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 4:03 PM
How many “Obamapoints” do you have, MB4?
Or do you bask McCain and help elect Obama for free?
wise_man on July 14, 2008 at 4:04 PM
Jimmy Carter showed this country what communism (uh, I mean liberalism) really is - Obama will do the same.
We survived Carter and had a much better President for eight years after it.
Sometimes a harsh lesson is in order. McCain will be just “okay” enough to keep people in the habit of accepting mediocrity and big government.
Obama may just shock some sense into people. Bitter medicine, and I am certainly not hoping for it. But if we let the Republicans know that McCain is acceptable what are they going to give us next?
Jiobaobubai on July 14, 2008 at 4:04 PM
I have no fantasies about McVain. I see him exactly as he is and Obama and the democrats don’t even know that I exist.
If Juan loses the election it will be on him and those who helped the McTurkey get the republican nomination.
MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 4:08 PM
Calling illegals immigrant laborers shows that everything that follows is simply pandering to those of us who stopped his amnesty scheme cold the last time. “Deal practically and humanely” doesn’t mean deporting these undesirable foriegn nationals back to where they came from, it is nothing more than code for try amnesty again but with more Democrats around in Congress.
Why in the Hell are we even considering nominating and voting for a corrupt career politician who is campaigning on the promise to circumvent the rule of law?
highhopes on July 14, 2008 at 4:08 PM
Wrong. You’ve been shown, several times, about a plan that not only CAN work but actually DOES work. You have to forget this inconvenient fact in order to push this point. It can be done, if only there were the will. Clearly, McCain hasn’t the will to protect our border and punish illegals.
As to the other issues that McCain is better on, that is WHY this decision is so HARD to make, and one I haven’t made yet. What I hate though is being told that I’m un-American, or stupid, or illogical, or whatever for pondering this decision and working things out with my own personal convictions.
I don’t think ANYONE thinks McCain is ideal. What he is, is the least crappy. That I do not so easily swallow his pandering and his insincerity shouldn’t brand me the worst person in the world.
Darksean on July 14, 2008 at 4:10 PM
So you’re saying there’s no logic behind the whole “support him now, pressure him later” argument? Please stop making it then.
I’ll take a shot at it. Generally, why must it be that people upset about immigration are throwing away those issues?
WoT, national security: Controlling our borders and knowing both who comes in and who IS in is a pretty important part of both the WoT and national security generally. Hence the “securing” of our borders. You can’t simultaneously be for national security and against securing our borders.
The economy, cutting gummint spending: illegal immigration is almost as closely bound to these issues as to the WoT and national security. There is no way in hell we’re going to simultaneously give 20 million people access to the welfare state and cut gummint spending. Especially when the problem with gummint spending is entitlements. Once again, I don’t see the logic of increasing the number of people receiving entitlements while worrying aobut millions of baby boomers retiring and getting their entitlements.
Yes, you have, you just haven’t listened to them. Nationwide enforcement of employer ID verification and sanctions would deny jobs to illegals. Cutting off free services to illegals would cut off free services to illegals. With no jobs and no free services, what are they going to do? Deport themselves, that’s what. And you know that they already are self-deporting, it’s been said and linked here many, many times. And that’s with piece-meal enforcement.
What do you think they’ll do with no jobs and no free services?
misterpeasea on July 14, 2008 at 4:10 PM
Basking McCain is just wrong on so many levels.
captivated_dem on July 14, 2008 at 4:11 PM
A liberal president one term does not guarantee a more conservative president the next.
After 4 years of Carter, we got 8 years of Reagan, thats how it went.
However, after 4 years of George Herbert Walker Bush, many conservatives decided to punish him for his ‘read my lips, no new taxes’ broken promise, and then a few vote for Ross Perot rather than re-elect Bush. What did that give us? 8 years of Bill Clinton. So how did that work out?
After that, we got George W Bush. And he was less conservative, spent more money and made government bigger. How about that. So after Bill Clinton, shouldn’t we have gotten a more conservative president?
it’s strange how this ‘harsh lesson’ didn’t work. Odd.
wise_man on July 14, 2008 at 4:12 PM
I am not going for any Obama points. What have I said about him that would get me any Obama points?
Do you really think that I am helping him get elected? Do you really think that I have that much influence? I don’t.
MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 4:13 PM
Care to refute what I said?
No. I want people to vote for McCain precisely because of convictions. And who, when everything is taken into account, most closely has views matching your own convictions, McCain, or Obama?
‘Cause thems are two choices. It’s like choosing between a bowl of lima beans and a hot fudge sundae. Even if the sundae doesn’t have walnuts on it like I would rather have it, I’m still going for the sundae over the lima beans. You’re refusing both.
JetBoy on July 14, 2008 at 4:13 PM
I just heard from Terrye. She said:
Americans just don’t care about illegal immigration. I come from a district where the Republican Representative, Hostettler, ran a “tough on enforcement” campaign and got beat by a Democrat. (Somehow, I always forget to mention that the Democrat ran to his RIGHT on immigration.)
misterpeasea on July 14, 2008 at 4:14 PM
If Juan loses the election it will be
on him and those who helped the McTurkey get the republican nomination.because people like MB4 who didn’t vote for him while all of the democrats voted for Obama.There. Fixed it for you.
wise_man on July 14, 2008 at 4:14 PM
I couldn’t agree more.
MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 4:17 PM
You didn’t fix anything whatsoever. No McCain points for you. Looks like you won’t even get that half bean burrito. So sad.
If you somehow think that Juan has earned my vote you are muy loco.
MB4 on July 14, 2008 at 4:19 PM
I’m sorry, sweetie, there’s nothing in your post to refute, except the claim that “Y’all” really wants “mass deportation” and who knows from where in your mind that came from.
I do, however, love your comment that, “I still haven’t heard one valid, realistic solution to illegals.”
Well — bully for you! Alot of other people have offered ideas. Why don’t you think hard and come up with one?
BigD on July 14, 2008 at 4:21 PM
wise_man, I think we’re wasting our breath. May has well let ‘em pout and keep ramblin’ on about illegals. Of course, no one was making it as big an issue until this election for some reason.
Fred! was my first choice, but I’m not gonna sit and whine about him not getting the nomination.
Remember, McCain didn’t abandon the far-right. It’s the other way around.
JetBoy on July 14, 2008 at 4:22 PM
And no one said it did.
At least you got something right.
Don’t be an idiot. A few conservatives, and Republicans, might have decided to punish him, but they were far outnumbered by the Perot voters. And 8 years of Clinton worked out pretty good. We got the first Republican Congress in 40+ years out of it. I’ll take Bambi and a Republican Congress over McCain and a Democrat Congress any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
And that’s one of the arguments to which I never seem to get an answer: the party with the presidency loses seats in Congress in the mid-term elections. Who do you want to lose seats? Who do you want blamed for the stupid and costly policies that will be enacted, by either President, in the next 4 years?
No, because it’s not guaranteed, and nobody ever said it was. Tell me, how is voting for McCain going to get us a more conservative President?
Your “logic” is piss-poor, but I’m giving you credit for making the attempt, instead of your usual name-calling and impugning motives.
misterpeasea on July 14, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Day one of McCain administration: Big gathering of La Raza in White House lawn in front of giant “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED” banner.
innominatus on July 14, 2008 at 4:23 PM
JetBoy, one thing we know for sure about McCain - he laughs at pressure. Life-or-death in an airplane over Vietnam, life-or-death at the hands of filthy NVA, political life-or-death supporting the surge when no one else would. He couldn’t give less of a !@#$ about our opinions. Conservatives are considerably less scary than SAMs and lots of other things he’s faced. In many ways I admire this trait in him, but if you think he’ll allow himself to be molded by our pressures - that’s pipedreamin’.
innominatus on July 14, 2008 at 4:25 PM
McObama for El Presidente!!
both are running on our platform of Reconquista
soon you yanqui imperialist dogs will be gringos in OUR country
right4life on July 14, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Is that why his lifetime 82 ACU rating is good for 40th most conservative Republican Senator?
And his more recent 65 rating is good for about 45th?
You really want open borders and amnesty, don’t you?
misterpeasea on July 14, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Okay, all of you Anti-McCain’ers, whom are you voting for? Nader?
right2bright on July 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM
aargh!
No! I am not for open borders. And “amnesty” means many different things to many people. I do believe we need some sort of “path to citizenship”, because nothing else is plausible. Even Reagan knew that.
JetBoy on July 14, 2008 at 4:32 PM
JetBoy, why do you not understand this? Our mistrust for McCain did not spring from nowhere. It is a result of catching him lying blatantly to our faces on multiple occasions. When someone/anyone lies to you, it is normal to lose trust for that person. Is it not? If my girlfriend catches me cheating on her I don’t think it would be fair for me to turn around and call her derranged because she no longer believes me anymore when I profess my loyalty to her.
Loss of trust comes AFTER betrayal. John McCain is a liar and betrayed us. That is why we don’t trust him.
Zetterson on July 14, 2008 at 4:33 PM
That was the point of my post. He has spent all of his trust-worthiness with his Peter-wolf behavior. For what he says to make a difference (read: be believable), he needs to take some action.
Spirit of 1776 on July 14, 2008 at 4:34 PM
True. But then, I don’t want another Bill Clinton who’ll run his presidency based on polls. I want a leader with convictions who’ll stick with ‘em, popular or not.
JetBoy on July 14, 2008 at 4:36 PM
Dear JetBoy:
What would be your preferred policy to deal with illegal immigration? In your own parlance, c’mon now, and ‘fess up?
Not want do you want, but what would you do?
BigD on July 14, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Save your effort. JetBoy is clearly a textbook example of useful idiot. He could well believe all that he is posting but, in doing so, completely ignores the relevant facts about why there is all the anti-McCain sentiment among those that would normally be out there leading the charge to get the Republican candidate elected. In JetBoy’s tiny little world the critics of McCain have somehow become the enemy because they don’t blindly support a man that is both a political Judas and Republican quisling. We would be very foolish to trust anything that McCain says at face value because he has proven time again that his word is worthless and he is willing to flip in a heartbeat if it suits his rabid political ambition.
As to immigration, I propose a simple one-for-one plan to deal with the impasse between the strong America crowd and the McCain/Obama group. We’ll take one of their illegals for every one of ours Mexico is willing to take. Likewise for all the sources of illegal immigration that McCain is too cowardly to deal with by a legitimate hard stand against our supposed allies to the south.
highhopes on July 14, 2008 at 4:46 PM
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