Because they went to public schools and are completely ignorant to how things work. They think things appear on the shelves at Target by magic.

Ann NY on July 14, 2008 at 10:10 AM

Like the dem politician who was walking through the woods and found a bunch of milk bottles and thought he had found a cow’s nest.

France, hardly a bastion of anti-environmental conservatives, gets 80% of their electrical power from nuclear. I just finished a vacation in Key West. When I headed south out to the gulf stream, I think I might have been closer to areas where the Chinese are going to be drilling for oil than I was to Key West.

When you see large, organized protests (environmental related, immigration related, whatever) who pays for all the professionally prepared signs, banners and literature at those events? Who organizes them? The costs involved have to be in the 10s (if not 100s) of thousands and up. Are the immigration protests paid for by the illegals protesting? I think not. Are the environmental protests paid for by the nut-jobs running around in bush hats and khaki shorts? I think not.

How many congressmen or senators are getting money through convoluted channels from oil producing countries or political enemies (China, for one)? Why spend billions on putting economic or military pressure on us when you can spend a few million a year to support the very groups that are blocking every avenue of progress.

It is about money (oil producing countries) and power (China)…. period. The very people elected to look out for our interests are selling us out.

Just my opinion.

CC

If the Marxists continue to hold American families’ needs hostage to “endangered” songbirds then they may find angry folks going on hunting sprees.

Maquis on July 12, 2008 at 7:19 PM

Maquis – Maybe the gasoline prices and fuel oil prices will be the issue that matovates the American publi to do something about it. Like uniting and stand on the steps of Congress and the White House lawn with pitchforks and torches, demanding the occupants come outside for a little chat.

Why does anyone vote for Democrats?

Because they went to public schools and are completely ignorant to how things work. They think things appear on the shelves at Target by magic.

If drilling for oil would help lower the price of Botox, Pelosi would switch her position in a millisecond.

I’m sure somewhere down the line, it would. But seeing that the average liberal hasn’t a clue on how things are produced, manufactured, grown, transported, etc., it will never occur to her to connect the dots.

/Happy Feet Penguins?
/China Syndrome?
/Silkwood?
/Lovable huggable Polar Bears?

dustoffmom on July 12, 2008 at 10:14 PM

sorry, that wasn’t pointed at you… I was making a statement about envirowhackos, like Thuja, attempting to explain their worldview.

The biggest killer of North American migratory song birds is the domestic feline. That is a fact…

The judge would be better off banning cats as pets if he is really concerned about the long term health of song bird populations.

Babs on July 12, 2008 at 2:29 PM

I know this is from way back in the thread but it struck me as being like a 2×4 upside the head – it is THAT obvious but most of us would never have remembered it.

Thanks, Babs, for the closing paragraph to this silly judge.

It’s kind of funny. The NY State bird is the bluebird. I’ve lived here all my life and have never seen one and I’m a birdwatcher. Connie

They are all moved south Connie!! I have dozens, literally, here in my yard in Carroll county TN!

dustoffmom on July 12, 2008 at 10:18 PM

Wait a sec! Did those bluebirds move to TN because they, too, got tired of all the Democrats in NY and all their tax-you-to-death policies?

ROTFLOL!

what is your position on illegal immigration? Legal immigration? Is it as schizophrenic as the Sierra Club?

In the 60’s the SC advocated a limited US population. Then, some time after the Kennedy immigration bill they changed their position. Now they support global population control through “family planning” and “education”, i.e. abortion and contraceptives. They no longer call for controls on US population, I suspect the reason is that now that most immigrants, illegal and legal, are from the 3rd world that the SC is afraid of being called “racist”. More so than they care about the environment.
Seems to me that if they were serious about resource consumption they would be leading the charge against immigration. Especially since the ignorant, poor peasants who make up the bulk of illegals don’t give a damn about the environment. They’re too busy worrying about putting food on the table.

Lead, Follow, or Get Out of the Way!!!

DRILL HERE – DRILL NOW – PAY LESS!!!

The repubs know that ands have signed on for the all of the ablove approach. It will not pass so Pelosi and the dems are the bad guys in this. Beautiful politics but still doesn’t help reduce oil prices.

We need to start drilling now. and funding LNG and liquid to coal for transportation fuels. Building the needed electric generation with wind, solar and nuclear for the coming electric cars. And after the change over we can sell the oil to China.

– Post Development guideline: Attract Cowbirds and Jays ten years after all environmentalist are dead in effort to manage burgeoning Kirtland Warbler Population.

Dusty on July 12, 2008 at 10:14 PM

LOL

It’s kind of funny. The NY State bird is the bluebird. I’ve lived here all my life and have never seen one and I’m a birdwatcher. Connie

They are all moved south Connie!! I have dozens, literally, here in my yard in Carroll county TN! Several nested in my bird houses and they daily bathe in the baths. Sorry you’ve not seen any, they are playful, beautiful birds. Can we say…….birds will move and adapt?!

QED.

Actually, Thuja, for recognizing the sarcasm, which means my “attempt” was “successful”.

I’m glad you found geometry to be fun, but that is a very poor reason to use it when the proper realm you should ask me to participate in is logic.

So, let’s start with your primary mistake: you presumed I’d agree with you that Ed’s proposition is in the form of “all 3.5 acres developments of a 1200-acre tracts are reasonable”.

That is particularly convenient for you because then your argument suffices as the one exception necessary to disprove it and you can say “You’re quite simply wrong.” But I do not agree it is in that form, and thus here we are at another phase of your digging and me kicking the stuff back in the hole you’re in.

—-

Kirtland Warblers protect themselves and their nests not only from cuckoos cowbirds but also Blue Jays in the dense scrub of Jack Pines. Dense, scrubby Jack Pines do not grow under heavy canopied forests where you say cowbirds do not fly so, Cowbirds and Jays not flying there is kind of irrelevant.

Dense scrubby Jack Pines do grow in areas that have been cleared by fire and for maybe 5 to 10 years they are prime places for the Warbler to reside to protect themselves from Cowbirds and Jays that do fly open areas and above canopies. After that canopies start to form and the low scrubby brush disappears. The Warblers lose the habitat they need.

Ergo, BMP’s for the area of Kirtland Warblers should include:
– clear cutting for minimal use gas well placement,
– carefully planned sequential torching of adjacent areas on a 10 year cycle,
– geometric clearing designs to maximize edges such as long, narrow deeply penetrating development footprints
– shooting environmentalists before they drive the Warblers to extinction.
– Post Development guideline: Attract Cowbirds and Jays ten years after all environmentalist are dead in effort to manage burgeoning Kirtland Warbler Population.

dustoffmom on July 12, 2008 at 4:02 PM
Key is in the worldview…

I’m an environmentalist… but not an envirowhacko…

to a whacko, any use, is abuse… by definition.

Romeo13 on July 12, 2008 at 4:38 PM

Okay…..I’ll admit I may be a bit dense…but what in the hell is this about??? I never professed to be ‘an environmentalist’, I’ll admit I surely am not. And a whacko??? God forbid! Me, my family, my country is ever so much more valuable than any ‘wild’ creature. Gasp! :D But I do love feeding and observing the birds. It’s a “hobby”….not a life or death issue with me and surely not worth five bucks or more a gallon for gas!!!! Please explain if you will the point of your post.

If none, then your argument is merely hypothetical, and I have every right to assume no harm would be done, just as you suggest that some undefined and unknown harm might be done.

Get me facts to back up your contention in this case, and we can talk about whether or not drilling is a good idea. Otherwise, we’re merely arguing about whether the little green puppy dogs in the sun are causing global warming.

I’m a treehugger who would like to stop muslim immigration into the United States and toss the muslims here into internment camps until they are ready to emigrate. I would urge Europe to do the same.

Not gonna happen, thuja, and rightly so.

We need to drill and become independent of Arab oil. Without money to fund the madrassas and the terrorists, the moderate Muslims can choose the right side without fear, and the jihadis can take their chance in a new ME against our forces and Iraq’s forces.

Okay, thuja, you win. Your “simple point … nothing more, nothing less” is really a essay filled with a nuance reflecting complexity that simple reading does not allow for and making a point which needs the modifier “major” because there is only one point … which, as I understand it to be, is that Ed was quite simply wrong that a 0.3% development seems reasonable because the issue of environmental fragmentation may be an issue.

Dusty on July 12, 2008 at 7:39 PM

Dusty, I appreciate you are attempting to be sarcastic, but in fact what you say literally is correct. Let’s review what Ed said:

Savoy wanted to clear 3.5 acres of a 1200-acre tract to test drill for oil, which doesn’t seem unreasonable

and further, let’s pretend we are in our 9th grade geometry class. Hey, geometry was fun for me. To show that someone is wrong when saying “it doesn’t seem unreasonable”, one only needs to present a single counterexample. What I did was present a single counterexample to Ed’s claim. QED.

An annoying quirk that I have is that I’m unwilling to end a post with QED. My morals compel me to invite you to point out any logical flaw in what I’m saying.

thuja on July 12, 2008 at 6:29 PM

Hey, we all love trees. I’ll even put up a “Save the Seedlings” sign if you’ll do a pro-life march with me. ;)

Connie on July 12, 2008 at 7:15 PM

No thanks. No thanks, at all. While I’m economic and foreign policy conservative, the one issue that is the most important is population. I’m more in favor of abortion than my sister-in-law who is on the board of directors of Planned Parenthood in Portland, OR, one of our most liberal cities.

What I always say to “environmentalists” is to stop wasting time on silly things like CAFE standards and oppose the human fetus idolaters.

Seems to me that Mt. St. Helens did a mighty job of clear cutting and the surrounding area has made a resounding comeback. Hmmmm.

Big John on July 12, 2008 at 7:43 PM

Quite so, but that was an act of nature – not an act of environmental vandalism perpetrated by evil humans. /sarc