Has Obama pushed the Steelers to sell?

posted at 12:30 pm on July 10, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

The complicated tax implications for succession, in combination with NFL ownership rules, have forced the last of the family-owned major sports franchises into a bitter battle.  The Wall Street Journal and CNBC both look at the potential sale of the Pittsburgh Steelers, which has been in the hands of the Rooneys since joining the NFL in 1933.  The implications of a Barack Obama presidency and his policy on capital-gains tax rates may force the Rooneys to unload the team:

[Daniel] Rooney, 75 years old, is attempting to buy his four brothers out of their interest in the team in order to comply with NFL regulations and put an orderly succession process in place. But in a move that shows they want to get full value for their individual 16% shares of the storied franchise, Mr. Rooney’s four brothers have retained Goldman Sachs & Co. to field and evaluate offers for their stakes in the team.

Those brothers — Art Rooney Jr., Timothy Rooney, Patrick Rooney and John Rooney — aren’t involved in the operations of the team, which is run by Daniel Rooney and his son, the team’s president. The Wall Street Journal reported Monday that Mr. Rooney has offered his brothers $35 million each for about one-third of each brother’s stake, which would increase his own stake to 36% from 16%, a valuation that would put the team’s worth at about $700 million. He also pledged to buy additional equity during the next decade.

The revelation has turned a quiet family squabble into a public battle for a trophy asset, a battle that includes financier Stanley Druckenmiller, billionaire chairman of Duquesne Capital Management. He is angling to buy a controlling interest in a franchise the Rooney family has owned since 1933.

This starts with two ownership issues with the NFL.  First, the league now requires that the controlling partner own at least 30% of the team, and Daniel Rooney only owns 16%.  He needs to buy some of the ownership interest from his brothers, who themselves provide the second NFL complication.  They own a horse track and recently added poker tables — which conflicts with the league’s policy on gambling ties.  They want the Rooney brothers to get out entirely and have tried to facilitate the transfer to Daniel Rooney.

Unfortunately, the sale has major tax implications, and it will get worse if Obama puts his tax plans into effect.  CNBC reports on the impact:

A capital gains tax is a tax on the profit from a sale of something. Currently, if an owner sells a team, he’ll have to give 15 percent of the profit back to the government in capital gains. But under Obama’s current plans, that number could rise to as much as 28 percent, meaning that the money paid to the government after the sale of the team might double by next year.

Let’s say the Rooneys could get $1.3 billion for the Steelers. Factoring in everything they pumped into the team, let’s say their profit is $600 million. Selling it now vs. if Obama is in office could mean the difference of nearly $80 million.

That requires a quick turnaround, and Daniel Rooney apparently doesn’t have that kind of liquidity.  Also, Democrats want to end the repeal of the estate tax, while McCain wants it extended, and that has all of the Rooneys worried about the tax burden their children will face when the current generation of owners move to that Great Gridiron In The Sky.  All of this favors a sale in 2008, before the sale gets hit with huge taxes, and that means the Druckenmiller bid looks very attractive to everyone — except the NFL, Daniel Rooney, and probably all of Pennsylvania.

It may be just one example of how a lot of investors will act in 2008, facing the prospect of higher tax rates on investment profits, but it’s also going to have a great deal of impact in a key battleground state in 2008.  Pittsburgh lives and dies with the Steelers, and the prospect of the Rooneys losing control of their team because of the tax policies of an Obama presidency will put his economic policies on the hotseat.  Obama cannot afford to lose Pennsylvania to John McCain, but the real-world example of his redistributionist policies may give voters in the Keystone State a reason to think twice about Obama.

The Rooneys have earned a great deal of respect and affection in Pennsylvania and with sports fans nationwide — certainly more than Barack Obama has.  With Obama threatening to throw the legacy of Jerome “The Bus” Bettis under the bus of a confiscatory tax policy, that affection for Obama certainly won’t increase.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3

Man…

Bye-bye Pennsylvania for Barry.

Sweet.

Typhoon on July 10, 2008 at 12:34 PM

Cuz PA residents really care if the Rooney’s are out 80 million of 1.3 billion.

lorien1973 on July 10, 2008 at 12:36 PM

As a Pittsburgh native and lifelong Steelers fan, the thought of the Rooney’s not owning the team is unthinkable. Sad day for the NFL.

Bodhi on July 10, 2008 at 12:36 PM

Take a look where the DJIA was on June 3 when Lord Obama was officially cornated and where it stands today.

Get ready for The Obama Depression.

JammieWearingFool on July 10, 2008 at 12:36 PM

I don’t know much about the other taxes. But the estate tax I have personal knowledge. It about wiped out my mother-in-law. When her husband died, he had left a nice estate, enough for her to live on comfortably. He was the earner, her the house-wife. He left a couple of rental buildings for her to have income. She had to sell those buildings to pay off the estate tax, and there went her monthly income. They worked their whole lives, lived frugally to save for retirement, and the estate tax wiped it out, because he died.
She lived fine for the rest of her life, but not anywhere near what she could have.
They had already paid taxes on everything they purchased, on everything they owned, but because he died she was taxed again…just unfair, to double tax.

right2bright on July 10, 2008 at 12:38 PM

Limbaugh said he wanted to buy them, don’t know if he was just kidding or not.

Tony737 on July 10, 2008 at 12:38 PM

I zoned out 1/2 way through the post. I think the rank and file would also. This is an example of how rich people could get hurt by BO, so will be dismissed. This won’t hurt BO (although I wish it would).

HawaiiLwyr on July 10, 2008 at 12:40 PM

I had already marked my calendar to sell some long term gains before the year-end if Obama wins in November. I’m absolutely sure I’m not alone in this.

There is no way I will pay 30% cap gains tax in the future if I can pay 15% now. It will also exacerbate the real estate crisis as people sell their rental properties where they have substantial unrealized long-term gains.

JiangxiDad on July 10, 2008 at 12:40 PM

Cuz PA residents really care if the Rooney’s are out 80 million of 1.3 billion.

lorien1973 on July 10, 2008 at 12:36 PM

If it hurts the team, yeah some might, particularly in Pittsburgh because a winning team means more revenue.

doubleplusundead on July 10, 2008 at 12:42 PM

Get ready for The Obama Depression.

But we will have Hope and Change keeping us afloat. Even in economic depression, we will be happy so long as a Lightworker is in charge. What’s a little fiscal ruin when we can elect the one true “good” person in politics?

Wineaholic on July 10, 2008 at 12:42 PM

… unfair, to double tax. – 2bright

But the ‘Pubs are eeeeeevil for wanting to get rid of the estate tax! Evil I tell you! And the dems, well, they’re the saviours of the little people! Saving us from ourselves!

Tony737 on July 10, 2008 at 12:42 PM

Yeah, I can’t see Western PA slamming Barry for this. It will all be about the ‘rich-folk’.

Besides, it is a perfect opportunity for Condi to get her dream. Hope she has been saving her change.

Limerick on July 10, 2008 at 12:42 PM

Cuz PA residents really care if the Rooney’s are out 80 million of 1.3 billion.

lorien1973 on July 10, 2008 at 12:36 PM

It’s not a matter of them being out $80 million. As Bodhi said, “the thought of the Rooney’s not owning the team is unthinkable”. It’s apparently a bit more of an emotional connection.

Why all the gloom and doom?

amerpundit on July 10, 2008 at 12:43 PM

Didn’t Rooney throw his support to Obama?

Why yes, he did.

yo on July 10, 2008 at 12:44 PM

doubleplusundead on July 10, 2008 at 12:42 PM

The point is, is that the republicans don’t even try to explain why lower taxes benefit the average person. People are selfish. It’s fine and dandy to oppose high taxes such as capital gains and all that; but if republicans would put forth some effort into explaining why such taxes hurt you or me, then they’d get some traction.

Unfortunately, the party’s message machine doesn’t work. And so you can expect higher and higher taxes cuz Republicans don’t put forth a good argument against it besides “it’s my money and i need it now”

lorien1973 on July 10, 2008 at 12:45 PM

add into the equation that any sell to anyone else but the Ronneys and there is a good chance of the steelers moving out of pittsburgh and you might have problems. All politics are local.

unseen on July 10, 2008 at 12:46 PM

Love my Steelers, hate that Obama.

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 12:46 PM

Another step closer to the day the military has to do their duty to protect us from ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC. The tree of Liberty may soon be getting a much needed watering.

bill30097 on July 10, 2008 at 12:47 PM

“… he’ll have to give the government confiscates 15 percent of the profit back to the government under the heading of capital gains.”

Fixed.

Dusty on July 10, 2008 at 12:47 PM

You just go and lay your hand on a
Pittsburgh Steeler fan and I think you’re gonna
finally understand. – Charlie Daniels

Good week for McCain.

forest on July 10, 2008 at 12:50 PM

Pro Obama press will not report on this other than an obligatory 30 second quip just to say “ya, we reported it.”

Our founding fathers ensured freedom of the press so that we the people would not be kept in the dark by the government…but I don’t think they ever figured the press would be against the best interests of the country, or that the sheeple would become so fat, lazy and complacant.

JustTruth101 on July 10, 2008 at 12:50 PM

lol. ya right, obama has “pushed” a sale. don’t you have anything better to comment on?

you don’t have to answer that…

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 12:50 PM

On the upside, the Giants get to visit Heinz Field this year to throw a beating on the Steelers.

JammieWearingFool on July 10, 2008 at 12:50 PM

Dusty on July 10, 2008 at 12:47 PM

Case in point. The reporter doesn’t even understand who pays the taxes. It’s always framed in the set of “its the government’s money” and they are just taking some of it back.

Republicans need to start reminding people whose money it is. Stop using words like “raising taxes” and start using words like “confiscation” or “taking % of your paycheck” or something. Something with more impact.

lorien1973 on July 10, 2008 at 12:50 PM

Personally, I blame the NFL Owner’s Protection Agency. The only publicly owned team (Green Bay) is prohibited from any further stock offerings. The Rooney’s, a family that is as much a part of Pittsburg as the old steel mills, would not be in this predicament if the NFLOPA didn’t want to reduce the number of its Lords and Ladies.

Watch for John ‘The ex-Marine’ Murtha to start some trouble for the NFL.

SeniorD on July 10, 2008 at 12:54 PM

just in passing, seems to me that it would be “pushing” the Rooneys to sell, and the not the Steelers.

get it right gilligan!

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 12:54 PM

Minor point of clarification: The Steelers are not the last family owned team. The Bills are still owned by Ralph Wilson and his family and the Bengals are still owned and operated by the Brown Family. The greate Paul Brown founded the team and it has never left family hands. Who Dey!

Dirthead on July 10, 2008 at 12:57 PM

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 12:54 PM

The Steelers is actually a tiny example of what will happen if Obama continues to threaten to double the cap. gains tax in 2009.

If you think that tax changes won’t have huge financial consequences, you’re nuts.

Would you pay 15% more in January ’09, if you could avoid it by selling in Dec. ’08?

If he wants to raise cap gains and avoid immediate and large consequences, he has to do it slowwwwly.

JiangxiDad on July 10, 2008 at 12:59 PM

I like the photo of “the Bus”. Nice touch.

Yeah, I can’t see Western PA slamming Barry for this. It will all be about the ‘rich-folk’.

Limerick on July 10, 2008 at 12:42 PM

I can see him getting slammed in W-PA. The voters already favored Hillary over Obama, even in Allegheny County, and he got mauled in most of the surrounding counties.

forest on July 10, 2008 at 12:59 PM

I’m buying guns and ammo a lot this year too, you never know. The threat of Obama is real. Be scared, but be brave, hope and change is on the way.

kirkill on July 10, 2008 at 1:00 PM

Do y’all really think the average person is going to blame Obama for this? I think not, not matter how true it may be.

SouthernGent on July 10, 2008 at 1:02 PM

[lorien1973 on July 10, 2008 at 12:50 PM]

Totally agree, lorien. That “back” stuck out like a sore thumb to me.

As for the government, it is rife with people who think that everything flows from the government, and to be more precise, the national government (federal government is essentially an obsolete and archaic term.)

Dusty on July 10, 2008 at 1:02 PM

I think you’ll see a lot of people making sound financial decisions in November and December based on the outcome of the elections.

I’ve already begun.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

cntrlfrk on July 10, 2008 at 1:11 PM

I’m buying guns and ammo a lot this year too, you never know. The threat of Obama is real. Be scared, but be brave, hope and change is on the way.

kirkill on July 10, 2008 at 1:00 PM

You do not know just how true that is. Gun sales and ammo are going to go through the roof.

carbon_footprint on July 10, 2008 at 1:11 PM

If you think that tax changes won’t have huge financial consequences, you’re nuts.

JiangxiDad on July 10, 2008 at 12:59 PM

If you think that this stupid war and practically 100% of Bush economic policy, (that favours the very rich, and not me at all, can’t speak for you) doesn’t have huge financial consequences on the vast majority of us, then maybe you should refrain from calling anyone nuts.

Would you pay 15% more in January ‘09, if you could avoid it by selling in Dec. ‘08?

Yes, I probably would, if it meant that the richest nation in the world provides a semblance of health care for all of its citizens, regardless of income. But hey, that’s just me, so call me nuts.

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 1:12 PM

I’m buying guns and ammo a lot this year too, you never know. The threat of Obama is real. Be scared, but be brave, hope and change is on the way.
kirkill on July 10, 2008 at 1:00 PM

I do that anyway but its nice to have a real threat such as Obama to justify my spending to the spousal unit.

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 1:14 PM

I found this an interesting read a few years back:

Helle, The Impact of Estate Taxes on Independent Daily Newspapers: An Illinois Case Study, 33 DePaul L. Rev. 323 (1984).

DrSteve on July 10, 2008 at 1:14 PM

Uh oh, obligatory attack on Bush and simultaneous clamor for national healthcare alert! Everyone pull on your rubber boots and prepare for a shit storm!

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 1:16 PM

Guns, ammo? What do you think gilligan, do you think you’re readers should be arming up? Do you advocate violent resistance to what could be the will of the people expressed in a Democratic electoral victory?

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 1:16 PM

Uh oh, obligatory attack on gun owners as violent zealots readying to overthrow the government alert!

Hey Genius™, guns can be used for defense too. Shocking, I know.

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 1:19 PM

Hey Genius™, guns can be used for defense too. Shocking, I know.

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 1:19 PM

LOL. ya right, the darkies are coming to get you! better start arming up.

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 1:20 PM

Sorry, that last post was off topic, but I was dragged into it be a wingnut. I’ll be careful next time.

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 1:21 PM

Jesus, what am I doing replying to someone that refers to his/her spouse as the “spousal unit”? Where are those wingnut sniper men when I’ve really stepped in it?

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 1:24 PM

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 1:12 PM

OMG! What a hateful racist troll you are!

First, it isn’t a “stupid war” sorry if you are too damned self-centered the understand the geopolitical and geostrategic reasons why this war matters to Americans- even trolls like you.

Second, the President’s economic policy isn’t driven by just one man. You don’t like the fact that your pay at McDonald’s isn’t above minimum wage, you need to spread the blame around a bit more.

Finally, knock off the racist comments. (Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 1:20 PM) It isn’t appropriate under any situation.

highhopes on July 10, 2008 at 1:27 PM

This story is a great vehicle to get Obama’s disastrous tax plan out for public scrutiny. So far, the media are just parroting the inaccurate claim that taxes will be reduced for the middle class. I’m middle class, but my taxes would go way up under the current Democratic plan because I’m self-employed as a s-corp, but that rant can wait.

There will be consequences for taxing the hell out of people. This thing with the Steelers is just one of them.

forest on July 10, 2008 at 1:27 PM

LOL. ya right, the darkies are coming to get you! better start arming up.
Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 1:20 PM

Huh, you use a racial term in an attempt to malign someone as a racist; must be that fabled liberal sensitivity coming to the fore.

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 1:28 PM

Jesus, what am I doing replying to someone that refers to his/her spouse as the “spousal unit”? Where are those wingnut sniper men when I’ve really stepped in it?
Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 1:24 PM

It’s ok, liberals aren’t known for their sense of humor so its fine that you take offense. Take pride in your dourness.

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 1:31 PM

I heard Rush Limbaugh talking the other day and he mentioned he might try and buy the Steelers. Has anybody else heard anything about this?

coffee260 on July 10, 2008 at 1:31 PM

If not only the Rooneys, but other people (including business owners) made a public fuss over selling large assets prior to the election in order to avoid a huge hike in capital-gains taxes due to an Obama administration, it might have an affect on the election.

The problem is, capital-gains taxes only affect the average Joe when he sells his home, and with the adjustable-rate mortgage mess, few people are making profits by selling homes right now.

Steve Z on July 10, 2008 at 1:31 PM

Watchman must think “darkies” = “liberals”. Hmm, let me think, who are the advocates for removing guns from Americans? Who implemented gun bans? LIBERALS, you racist freak.

kirkill on July 10, 2008 at 1:33 PM

My pay at McDonalds? LOL. I’m an american, (like you I presume) that raises sheep in the northwest of France. And yes, believe it or not, I still pay taxes back “home”, although I haven’t considered it my home since our boy king over stepped his bounds, lied to my fellow compatriots, and got us into this yes, STUPID war.

Racist comments? If you knew who you were talking to, I might adress that.

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 1:33 PM

Billionaires might make 80 million less on a 1.3 billion dollar sale of a football team?

OH MY GOD THAT’S SO TERRIBLE!

INHUMAN!

WITHOUT DOUBT THIS IS AN ISSUE THE COMMON MAN WILL REALLY GIVE A F**K ABOUT COME ELECTION TIME!

A POTENTIAL 600 MILLION PROFIT DECREASED BY 80 MILLION LEAVES ONLY 520 MILLION BECAUSE OF HUSSIEN OSAMA!

THE ELECTORATE WILL AGREE THIS PITTANCE IS OUTRAGEOUS AND UNAMERICAN!

HUSSEIN OSAMA REALLY THREW THE ELECTION AWAY THIS TIME!

Dave Rywall on July 10, 2008 at 1:34 PM

Oh, what am I doing, replying to an ELITIST LIBERAL TROLL!? He knows what the world needs, it just needs peace, love and happiness…ahh, now don’t we all FEEEL better?

kirkill on July 10, 2008 at 1:35 PM

Don’t bother kirkill, like Obama, watchman automatically equates gun ownership with violence. He completely missed the facts you just stated as evidenced by his belief that buying guns means a desire to overthrow the government.

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 1:35 PM

With Obama threatening to throw the legacy of Jerome “The Bus” Bettis under the bus

With Jeremiah, Hillary, white Grandma and all the others, there ain’t much room left under that bus. Gonna have to cut the fenders out and raise it up with ‘monster truck’ tires.

whitetop on July 10, 2008 at 1:37 PM

If you think that tax changes won’t have huge financial consequences, you’re nuts.

Would you pay 15% more in January ‘09, if you could avoid it by selling in Dec. ‘08?

If he wants to raise cap gains and avoid immediate and large consequences, he has to do it slowwwwly.

JiangxiDad on July 10, 2008 at 12:59 PM

NUTS is right! There are A LOT of people who may not have Rooney money but they have a great deal of money and assets. See below.

I don’t know much about the other taxes. But the estate tax I have personal knowledge. It about wiped out my mother-in-law. When her husband died, he had left a nice estate, enough for her to live on comfortably. He was the earner, her the house-wife. He left a couple of rental buildings for her to have income. She had to sell those buildings to pay off the estate tax, and there went her monthly income. They worked their whole lives, lived frugally to save for retirement, and the estate tax wiped it out, because he died.
She lived fine for the rest of her life, but not anywhere near what she could have.
They had already paid taxes on everything they purchased, on everything they owned, but because he died she was taxed again…just unfair, to double tax.

right2bright on July 10, 2008 at 12:38 PM

If you don’t think this could happen to you and yours then you’re NUTS! I know I’m not the only one with a boatload of assets, savings and investments. Why should my heirs have to pay massive taxes when I have paid taxes on all of this already? Take a look at your finances. I bet a lot of us would have a several hundred thousand dollar shot to the jimmies due to taxes.

Bottom line, I don’t mind paying to live in this country but this is getting stupid. Because I worked my arse off and planned for the future my family gets kicked in the nuggets!?!?!

VikingGoneWild on July 10, 2008 at 1:38 PM

This could be a game-changer in Pittsburgh if the RNC had the nerve to do some TV advertising around it.

Increasing the capital gains tax rate has never produced more revenue for the government. Not once. But every single time the rate has been reduced, government revenues have increased. The Bush tax cuts produced a bonanza in capital gains tax revenues.

rockmom on July 10, 2008 at 1:38 PM

So by “darkies” you meant what? LOL, you must be an Obama supporter the way you are trying to cover your tracks.

As for your whining that the United States is no longer your home, you need to get a grip. This country is larger than one man and if you are willing to so easily separate yourself from America because of one man, then you are no American.

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 1:39 PM

Do y’all really think the average person is going to blame Obama for this? I think not, not matter how true it may be.

SouthernGent on July 10, 2008 at 1:02 PM

No, probably not. But as others have pointed out, it serves as a good example of the consequences of Obama’s proposed policies.

Missy on July 10, 2008 at 1:41 PM

Don’t bother kirkill, like Obama, watchman automatically equates gun ownership with violence. He completely missed the facts you just stated as evidenced by his belief that buying guns means a desire to overthrow the government.

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 1:35 PM

It’s only a desire if it becomes NECESSARY, because of a tyrannical socialist coming to power. That’s WHY the 2nd Amendment is the MOST IMPORTANT Amendment in our constitution.

We, the American People, with a “currently” Republic Government, will DEFEND our Freedom from those that want to remove our freedom.

But it’s hilarious the pusillanimous Watchman had to run to the nanny state of France to raise SHEEP!

kirkill on July 10, 2008 at 1:41 PM

Dave Rywall on July 10, 2008 at 1:34 PM

It’s not one guy and only eighty million dollars. It’s everyone in the country who owns something that they don’t want to have to pay higher taxes on.

Now turn off the caps and try to see beyond the walls of your basement, the issue is bigger than just the Steelers.

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 1:42 PM

But it’s hilarious the pusillanimous Watchman had to run to the nanny state of France to raise SHEEP!
kirkill on July 10, 2008 at 1:41 PM

Bush obviously scared the hell out of him. You know, Dubya might have ordered Cheney to use his weather machine to demolish watchman’s house or something.

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 1:43 PM

Obama’s “let them pay $5 a gallon” energy policy is going to kill General Motors and Ford too. I think some voters in Michigan might care about that, too, if Republicans are smart enough to tell them.

rockmom on July 10, 2008 at 1:44 PM

VikingGoneWild on July 10, 2008 at 1:38 PM

EXACTLY! The Capital Gains tax hurts normal average Americans a lot more than it hurts the Rooneys. Everything has to be scaled properly.

kirkill on July 10, 2008 at 1:44 PM

Why are all Democrats class warfare types? I would LOVE to own a sports team. But the Democrats think I’m evil for wanting to be rich. Watchman, Dave Rywall–is it immoral to have money? Is it immoral to want to make a lot of money?

If so, Please send all your salaries or whatever it is you make to me. I promise I’ll only blow 50 % of it for my own use–that’s a heck of a lot better deal than the government provides. Besides, I’ll hire someone with my fifty percent–helping the economy to produce more, not take more like your ideal government.

Who knows better how to manage my money I earn–me, or Barack Obama? I bet you will say Obama. And that’s the fatal flaw in Democrat plans–they think they know more about how to spend my money than I do.

You are wrong. Dead wrong. But of course, I just want to get a gun so I can shoot black people–any Republican just dreams of genocide cuz we are all raaaaaacist, right?

I really believe the average Nutroots vision (people like Dave Rywall and alphie) of a Republican is a white man raping a black women then shooting her in a church while quoting from the Bible. That is what they imagine a Republican is. When they just want communism, because THIS time it will work–as long as they are in charge.

Vanceone on July 10, 2008 at 1:46 PM

So by “darkies” you meant what? LOL, you must be an Obama supporter the way you are trying to cover your tracks.

By “darkies” I meant not whiteys, like you I presume, although judging by Mrs Malkin, I could be wrong. And you say one man? LOL. Wingnuts like you have supported this “one man” since the beginning. That’s eight year, during which we’ve invaded a defenseless nation that hadn’t attacked us, we’ve engaged in torture, we’ve turned our backs on our allies, (if you’re not with us you’re against us) etc… Shame on us. Shame shame shame. To paraphrase Ashcroft, history will not be kind to us for this period. Shame really, because we used to be the greatest nation on the planet.

As to Obama supporter, perhaps. I’m undecided. I’ve been a republican all my voting life, and I was born in 63.

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 1:47 PM

Take a look where the DJIA was on June 3 when Lord Obama was officially cornated and where it stands today.

Lord Obama has not yet been officially coronated. If he keeps screwing up by the numbers, he might not be, and we’ll have Queen Hillary, instead. Until the Superdelegates actually vote six weeks from now, all you have to go on is the word of lifelong Democrat operatives, which should be worth very little, any way you cut it.

gridlock2 on July 10, 2008 at 1:47 PM

Putting aside the fall out from Obama’s tax ideas on the general public, if the Rooney family loses the team or major millions they, not the fans, deserve it.

As previously mentioned Dan Rooney supports Obama.

patrick neid on July 10, 2008 at 1:48 PM

You know, Watchman–when we are all dead and gone, in the next life, and I’m asked “Why did you support the Iraq war,” I can at least reply that if not for the war, there would be tons of deaths and torture in Iraq–the rape rooms, etc. What are you going to say? “I fully support the idea of Saddam Hussein and his shooting at US planes, his invading countries, his rape and torture chambers that really are torture chambers, not waterboarding, and I really get off on watching Americans get killed and doing nothing to stop it, aside from perhaps arresting the surviving conspirators and giving them full Constitutional rights. And I’m proud of all of that!”

I’d rather be on the side of freedom fighting against tyranny. You prefer Tyranny. I think my conscience is clear.

Vanceone on July 10, 2008 at 1:51 PM

in the next life

Vanceone on July 10, 2008 at 1:51 PM

Uh huh.

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 1:54 PM

Limbaugh said he wanted to buy them, don’t know if he was just kidding or not.

Tony737 on July 10, 2008 at 12:38 PM

That would be kind of cool.

Candy Slice on July 10, 2008 at 1:57 PM

That’s eight year, during which we’ve invaded a defenseless nation that hadn’t attacked us, we’ve engaged in torture, we’ve turned our backs on our allies, (if you’re not with us you’re against us)

its amazing that anyone can believe and post such lies.

oh lets see, Saddam shot at our planes in the no-fly zone, he supported al-qaeda, according to your hero Clinton, as far as ‘torture’ you actually think waterboarding is ‘torture’? laughable.

whats even more amusing is that you compassionate, caring, concerned liberals are NEVER concerned about the torture that any left-wing dictator, including Saddam ever does.

turned our back on our allies: translation: we don’t bow and scrape before our european betters enough for wacko libs.

thanks for the laughs, you guys are crazy as hell.

right4life on July 10, 2008 at 2:00 PM

[Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 1:42 PM]

Well, now that Rywall has established that he’s a thief, all we have left to do is see how petty he is.

Dusty on July 10, 2008 at 2:00 PM

Ah, yet you still haven’t explained what you meant by “darkies”. Explain whenever you feel ready which, according to your current trend of obfuscation, probably won’t happen anytime this year.

Yes, one man, and look, the nation is still here! Why, the flag is still flying, people are working, raising families, enjoying their weekends, having BBQ’s, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

No matter how you feel about Bush, saying you no longer consider the United States your home because of him makes you a fair weather patriot (according to your own views) and that is not an American trait. I’m not exactly enamored with Pelosi and Reid but they are still my Speaker of the House and Senate Majority Leader, much as Clinton was my CinC while he was POTUS.

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 2:01 PM

, (if you’re not with us you’re against us) etc… Shame on us. Shame shame shame. To paraphrase Ashcroft, history will not be kind to us for this period. Shame really, because we used to be the greatest nation on the planet.

As to Obama supporter, perhaps. I’m undecided. I’ve been a republican all my voting life, and I was born in 63.

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 1:47 PM

whats shameful is that people like you get to enjoy the freedom that others have died for.

you’re a ‘republican’ *snort* let me guess, you’re also a big fan of Reagan and WFB! sure.

right4life on July 10, 2008 at 2:02 PM

While I don’t agree with Obama’s desire to increase taxes, I’m utterly apathetic about this issue. I’ll go ask some other Pittsburghers if this issue makes any difference to them. If I find one, I’ll report back. I mostly expect to see people looking at me like I’m a space alien.

thuja on July 10, 2008 at 2:05 PM

during which we’ve invaded a defenseless nation that hadn’t attacked us, we’ve engaged in torture, we’ve turned our backs on our allies

You mean Afghanistan?

You mean the torture that has ALWAYS been used by every nation on earth? Wait…you actually believe that we haven’t done such things in the past?

You mean Canada or Australia or England? Or were you referring to France (which doesn’t belong to NATO) or Germany whose laws prohibit their troops from being used in combat?

Hehehe, nice whitewash, Huck.

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 2:05 PM

I’m not exactly enamored with Pelosi and Reid but they are still my Speaker of the House and Senate Majority Leader

And yet, you advocate arming up? To what end? For whom are your bullets reserved? Saddam? Defense? Against what? Higher taxes? You gonna shoot your way out of higher taxes? Maybe for the football team owners of the country. Hell, everyone knows they need an armed wingnut militia.

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 2:05 PM

All right, Watchman, then I say it in this life–you support what Saddam was doing. You scream and accuse the US of being the worst country in the world, but I’ve yet to see you say anything about how bad Saddam was.

Tell me, O wise arbiter of how bad the US is, just when is the US justified in, you know, actually standing up for itself? Is it before or after nuclear bombs go off over Detroit?

See, perhaps you forget all the UN Resolutions Iraq broke. Guess you advocate there be no consequences for the UN. We therefore have discovered that Democratic policies dictate a powerless UN.

Item 2) Iraq was universally believed to have WMD’s. Yes, you liberals all whine about how “Bush lied, people died” but if “Bush lied” then so did France, Russia, China, Germany, etc…. or more accurately, Saddam lied to himself. If the entire world and their intelligence agencies believed he had WMD’s, how is Bush supposed to have divinely found out the “truth?” Especially since Iraq DID have WMDs. Thus, you believe that Saddam was an innocent babe who would NEVER use them.

Trusting Dictators to keep their word is another policy you therefore believe in. We see this syndrome with Democrats in general, from at least JKF on. Carter, Clinton, and now Obama is explicitly running on the “We can trust Dictators implicitly!” platform.

Item 3) Iraq was firing at US planes enforcing UN resolutions. Is it your case that there should be no consequences? I believe that is indeed your policy: It is A-ok to attempt to kill US military personnel, but if the US responds, that is evil. Something similar is on display with the Evilness of Israel when they respond to missile attacks on their civilians. I am sure you also oppose Israeli self defense as an atrocity against the poor Palestinians, who just can’t help firing missiles into Israeli cities.

Ergo, you believe that killing American soldiers is ok. That consists of levying war against the US, but I doubt you really view that as a bad thing.

No wonder you want to vote for Obama.

Vanceone on July 10, 2008 at 2:08 PM

While I don’t agree with Obama’s desire to increase taxes, I’m utterly apathetic about this issue. I’ll go ask some other Pittsburghers if this issue makes any difference to them. If I find one, I’ll report back. I mostly expect to see people looking at me like I’m a space alien.

thuja on July 10, 2008 at 2:05 PM

Thank you. That’s all I was saying at the beginning. To quote myself:

lol. ya right, obama has “pushed” a sale. don’t you have anything better to comment on?

you don’t have to answer that…

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 12:50 PM

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 2:08 PM

And yet, you advocate arming up? To what end?

Because…GASP!…I collect firearms of all sorts for many reasons; home defense, target shooting, skeet, hunting, plinking, aesthetic value or just because I enjoy flexing my 2nd Amendment rights. Liberals aren’t so hot about gun rights, use dogpile to research “assault weapons ban”.

Now I realize that in your world guns equals piles of corpses outside my house and inherent desire to rob a bank or commit mayhem, but on Planet Reality all sorts of people use guns for harmless innocuous purposes. Kind of craps on your worldview, doesn’t it?

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 2:13 PM

You scream and accuse the US of being the worst country in the world…

What, in your gods name, are you talking about? I am not screaming, I’m typing. And worst country in the world. Not even close, I said it used to be the BEST country in the world.

Nuclear bombs over Detroit? LOL. Who’s? Iraqs? Irans? UN resolutions broken? One word, Israel. Read up on them. Could change your view. Besides, since when has wingnuts cared about UN resolutions?

Universally believed he had wmds? I call BS. Condi said he had not reconstituted his armed forces, and Colin said he couldn’t even threaten his neighbours. Remember that? I thought not.

Rape rooms? Torture chambers? Since when do the sins of others dictate the way we do business? The Soviets tortured too. Are you suggesting that we have all along? And if so, is this what makes you proud of being American?

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 2:16 PM

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 2:13 PM

the truth is the libs don’t want us to have guns, because it empowers people, they can defend themselves, and don’t have to rely on government…and they want us totally dependent upon government.

right4life on July 10, 2008 at 2:17 PM

I’m kind of surprised the Steelers are only worth 700 million.

Anyway, more and more people are going to start acting to hedge themselves against an Obama presidency, which seems pretty likely at this point.

Grafted on July 10, 2008 at 2:18 PM

Vanceone, watchman is pissed that we invaded Afghanistan, a country which never attacked us and that we have turned our backs on our allies such as Canada.

Did I mention that Canada has the largest per-capita military force in Afghanistan? Good grief, had we not turned our back on the Canucks, they might have two million troops over there.

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 2:18 PM

Universally believed he had wmds?

so where did he get that sarin shell that exploded by our troops? oh yeah it was just a leftover..nothing to see here…

Rape rooms? Torture chambers? Since when do the sins of others dictate the way we do business?

I thought you libs ‘cared’ about others, but you never denounce the sins of any left-wing dictator.

because libs crave their power, and would do the same in their place.

right4life on July 10, 2008 at 2:19 PM

UN resolutions broken? One word, Israel. Read up on them. Could change your view.

How did I just know you were going there?

DrSteve on July 10, 2008 at 2:19 PM

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 2:18 PM

Serbia was a big threat too!!

but that was OK because France wanted us to….

right4life on July 10, 2008 at 2:19 PM

right4life on July 10, 2008 at 2:17 PM

Yes but according to watchman (that ol’ veteran Republican), gun owners are “arming up” to overthrow the government. Didn’t you get the memo, that is the only reason we would be buying firearms?

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 2:20 PM

I don’t know much about the other taxes. But the estate tax I have personal knowledge. It about wiped out my mother-in-law. When her husband died, he had left a nice estate, enough for her to live on comfortably.

Ummmmm….”In determining a married decedent’s taxable estate, an unlimited deduction is allowable for property that passes to a the decedent’s surviving spouse.” (IRC section 2056)

So the m-i-l shouldn’t have ended up paying Federal estate tax at all.

cthulhu on July 10, 2008 at 2:21 PM

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 2:20 PM

don’t let the cat out of the bag!!! its all part of the conspiracy we’re working on along with the:


CIA
skull and bones
bilderbergs
bohemian grove
masons
neo-cons
illuminati

soon we will have total control….

right4life on July 10, 2008 at 2:24 PM

I said it used to be the BEST country in the world.

Was that before or after we bombed Serbia, another country which never attacked the U.S.? Uh oh, how far back are we going to go, Korea? They didn’t attack us either. WWI or WWII Germany? Nope, no attacks. Great Britain in 1776? Still no attack. Damn! Just ran out of U.S. history…now what?

Still waiting for the explanation of your term “darkies”. Anytime you’re ready.

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 2:26 PM

I’m buying guns and ammo a lot this year too, you never know. The threat of Obama is real. Be scared, but be brave, hope and change is on the way.

kirkill on July 10, 2008 at 1:00 PM

You do not know just how true that is. Gun sales and ammo are going to go through the roof.

carbon_footprint on July 10, 2008 at 1:11 PM

Didn’t you get the memo, that is the only reason we would be buying firearms?

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 2:20 PM

I read, you decide.

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 2:29 PM

right4life on July 10, 2008 at 2:24 PM

You shouldn’t have said anything, now you have to be disappeared too. Please report to Dark Leader Rove’s Hegemonic Command Bunker™ for your punishment.

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 2:29 PM

I said it used to be the BEST country in the world.
Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 2:16 PM

Now I’m curious. What country would you consider to be the best?

Big Orange on July 10, 2008 at 2:30 PM

Your understanding of historic events is staggering Bishop. I feel sorry for you.

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 2:31 PM

And yet, you advocate arming up? To what end? For whom are your bullets reserved? Saddam? Defense? Against what? Higher taxes? You gonna shoot your way out of higher taxes? Maybe for the football team owners of the country. Hell, everyone knows they need an armed wingnut militia.

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 2:05 PM

Maybe because the original poster actually knows some history. Guns are the first thing taken when the government wants to take over… and in our country it is the LIBERALS who always seem to ignore our country’s highest laws in order to steal from others.

LOL. ya right, the darkies are coming to get you! better start arming up.

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 1:20 PM

And another thing… I’m white, my brother-in-law is black… and for you to post such putrid, vile, disgusting racist filth really ticks me off. You really should be better than this, and trying to blame the “wingnuts” instead of offering a true apology just makes you look like a coward!

Jesus…

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 1:24 PM

And another thing… stop taking the name of my Savior in vain!

dominigan on July 10, 2008 at 2:32 PM

Watchman on July 10, 2008 at 2:29 PM

Still don’t see any reference to “overthrowing the government”, where did you find it? Please link.

As for my own comment, (Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 2:20 PM), dogpile “jest” and then get yourself a sense of humor.

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 2:32 PM

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 2:29 PM

I didn’t mean to, I was jus

right4life on July 10, 2008 at 2:33 PM

Comment pages: 1 2 3