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Gramm delivers really straight talk

posted at 11:30 am on July 10, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Phil Gramm vented a little frustration about the doom-and-gloom talk surrounding the economy in an interview with the Washington Times, and Democrats have jumped all over it.  Gramm, speaking as a surrogate for the John McCain, decried the rush to pessimism, noting that we have not yet experienced a single quarter of contraction, let alone a recession.  His description of a “mental recession” has McCain’s opponents gleefully portraying Gramm as out of touch:

In an interview with the Washington Times, Phil Gramm, a former Texas senator who is now vice chairman of UBS, the giant Swiss bank, said he expects Mr. McCain to inherit a sluggish economy if he wins the presidency, weighed down above all by the conviction of many Americans that economic conditions are the worst in two or three decades and that America is in decline.

“You’ve heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession,” he said, noting that growth has held up at about 1 percent despite all the publicity over losing jobs to India, China, illegal immigration, housing and credit problems and record oil prices. “We may have a recession; we haven’t had one yet.”

“We have sort of become a nation of whiners,” he said. “You just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline” despite a major export boom that is the primary reason that growth continues in the economy, he said.

“We’ve never been more dominant; we’ve never had more natural advantages than we have today,” he said. “We have benefited greatly” from the globalization of the economy in the last 30 years.

Gramm has at least the non-recession correct.  In fact, growth ticked slightly upwards in the last quarter from 2007Q4, going from 0.6% to 1.0%.  Since recession is defined as two successive quarters of negative GDP growth, Gramm rightly states that we haven’t yet had a recession.  The export boom shows that America can compete on a globalized stage, despite the shrieks of economic collapse that accompany trade talks.

Democrats call Gramm out of touch for calling the US a “nation of whiners”.  It may be politically inapt in an election year, but the description isn’t far wrong.  We hear comparisons made to the Great Depression and a “Herbert Hoover economy”, but that only proves how incoherent and economically illiterate critics can be.  Growth remains positive and unemployment remains in the range of historical average of 5.5%.  Contrast that to the economy of Jimmy Carter, when unemployment, inflation, and interest rates all went out of control — and even that was nothing next to the Depression.  Whiners?  You bet.

And the most ironic part of this criticism is that most of the people launching it want to do exactly what Hoover did — revert to economic protectionism.  They want a Smoot-Hawley approach to foreign trade that would make whatever economic troubles we do have grow exponentially.

Gramm made a mistake, though, in assigning whiner status to the entire country, and the Democrats are poised to pounce on it:

“How dare john McCain and his advisers so callously dismiss the challenges the American people face? No wonder voters feel john McCain is out of touch. He and his campaign don’t even understand the everyday issues Americans are dealing with.”

The problem with today’s economy comes from two sources: the credit collapse from the burst of the housing bubble, and the rapidly-increasing price of fuel.  Both parties can take the blame for the former if any blame at all is to be assigned, but the latter belongs squarely in the lap of Democrats.  Republicans have tried for years to increase both domestic production and refining of oil, as John Boehner reminds everyone today in the New York Post, but the Democrats have obstructed all efforts.  Had we brought the OCS and interior sources on line during the 1990s, we would have no supply crisis today.  Had we done so after 9/11, when the strategic issues regarding oil production became blindingly obvious to all but the most obtuse, we would be seeing the maturation of those supply sources right now.

Instead, what did we get?  Thirteen years of whining that it would take seven years to bring new sources of oil to the market.   I’d say that Gramm diagnoses the problem with accuracy, and that the Democrats should own up to their affliction.


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There has been an intellectual recession on the left for decades.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 10, 2008 at 11:32 AM

Great post, Ed.

phronesis on July 10, 2008 at 11:35 AM

It may be politically inapt in an election year,

Inept?

Maquis on July 10, 2008 at 11:36 AM

Rather than “intellectual recession” I might call it an “intellectual sinkhole”. It just opens up and swallows everything in its path.

NeighborhoodCatLady on July 10, 2008 at 11:38 AM

It is only acceptable if (big IF) the doom-and-gloom libs do not ‘revise’ the current numbers.

For example, libs will use the same economic indeces to trumpet the greatest recovery when Dems control both WH and Congress.

Sir Napsalot on July 10, 2008 at 11:39 AM

Hasn’t Barack Obama’s rhetoric been that people have been hurting for the last 20 years at least? That he and his wife, though millionaires that went to Ivy League law schools and chose not to practice law, can barely scrape together the money to pay off their college loans? That there is barely enough time in the day nor money in the bank to pay for private schools and dance lessons? That the rest of the world hates us because we aren’t nicer? He has won votes with his whining.
Yeah, I’d say a good portion of our population whines when we should celebrate. Yes, there are hard times and some people really suffer. Yet if you read political rhetoric over the past few decades you would think we were on the constant verge of collapse.

MayBee on July 10, 2008 at 11:39 AM

Gramm made a mistake, though, in assigning whiner status to the entire country, and the Democrats are poised to pounce on it:

No mistake. We are a nation of whiners, especially here on the left coast. Nothing will ever be good enough, fair enough, or easy enough.

fourstringfuror on July 10, 2008 at 11:39 AM

Gramm was doing a fantastic job until he slipped this little ditty in:

Mr. Gramm noted that Albert Einstein was one prominent immigrant who might have been excluded under an anti-immigration regime.

*cue Cyndi Lauper singing True Colors*

MB007 on July 10, 2008 at 11:39 AM

Gramm just needs to eat more arugula. Then he’ll know how the common man is suffering.

MadisonConservative on July 10, 2008 at 11:40 AM

Phil Gramm, elitist.

Grow Fins on July 10, 2008 at 11:41 AM

Gramm was my pick for the Republican nomineee back in 1996. I’d take him today, too.

BigD on July 10, 2008 at 11:41 AM

I’ve always liked Gramm for his economics chops.

aero on July 10, 2008 at 11:42 AM

It’s typical drive-by media. When there’s no problem find a bunch of “experts” who speak out about the fear of an “impending” problem. Sickening.

Mojave Mark on July 10, 2008 at 11:42 AM

DEMOCRATS
……….N
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…………………O
………………….N

fogw on July 10, 2008 at 11:43 AM

This economy is now an “emotional” economy. Just like the support for Obama, and the posters who attack McCain, it is emotionally driven.
So Gramm may win the battle, because the stats support him, but he will lose the war with this tactic, because facts are not being used to make decisions.
This is a “mental recession”, but people vote mentally, not with the facts. Otherwise, Obama would not be in this race. Hillary or someone else would be.
This is a very dangerous tact, when you point out facts to an MDS’r or an Obama supporter (often one and the same), they go berserk. Say to an Obama supporter he doesn’t have much experience, and watch the reaction (less then one year in the senate, and a “community organizer”?). Tell someone that McCain has leadership experience (or against earmarks) and listen to what the MDS’r states (”you don’t know an earmark from earwax”).

right2bright on July 10, 2008 at 11:43 AM

So to pick on Gramm for calling everyone a bunch of whiners, the Whine and Cheese Party™ starts…whining.

Gaia help us.

Bishop on July 10, 2008 at 11:43 AM

sorry, experimenting and hit submit by mistake.

fogw on July 10, 2008 at 11:44 AM

We are indeed are becoming a nation of whiners, in relation to the rest of the world.

michaelo on July 10, 2008 at 11:45 AM

Mr. Gramm noted that Albert Einstein was one prominent immigrant who might have been excluded under an anti-immigration regime.

That is a bunch of BS. Back then, the PC crowd did not hamstring the works. The US could always find a way to get what they put their mind to, and getting Einstein was one of those things. Also, deporting criminals was another.

saiga on July 10, 2008 at 11:46 AM

Instead of the vacuous re-wording of insider political trivia, Gramm, etc., would do better beating the Dems over the head for their failure to promote ENERGY INDEPENDENCE NOW.

Whether the economy is technically in “recession” or not means little when oil heating bills double, gasoline bills double and businesses (airlines, fishermen, truckers, etc. dependent on affordable fuel) go broke and homeowners can’t afford to drive and heat their homes at the same time.

The Republicans have THE issue to win: DRILL HERE DRILL NOW PAY LE$$, and these little sidetrackings only weaken their case with voters who want relief, not a well-off, pompous ass’s grief (”nation of whiners“, et al).

Keep It Simple Schmucks.

profitsbeard on July 10, 2008 at 11:46 AM

The Democrats will be sure to help the economy by making sure we spend even more than we are now on programs that will further reduce individual initiative, and by raising taxes.

And if you are against those things it is because you hate ______.

It’s gonna be a great 4 years.

Defense Guy on July 10, 2008 at 11:46 AM

The analysis is right on. The problem is the public perception. I’m in that rob-Peter-to-pay-Paul catagory and so are my neighbors. The economy IS the topic of the day. Call it a ‘malaise’ if you want but down here on the ground it seems very real. Gas, food, utilities, garbage collection it’s all up. This is something the ‘get off your butt’ crowd always acknowledge. For many workers their fanny is already moving as fast as it can.

Limerick on July 10, 2008 at 11:48 AM

crowd doesn’t always acknowledge (sorry).

Limerick on July 10, 2008 at 11:49 AM

What Gramm and McCain need to do is simply say Gramm was talking about the pundits who are whiners. Because really what average joe talks about competiveness or america’s decline? Gramm’s talking about the hig level approach to things while the dims try to make it like he was talking about the low level approach.

Zaggs on July 10, 2008 at 11:50 AM

The man did earn a PhD in Economics from UGA, and taught it at A&M for over 10 years. He does have some credibility on the topic.

daveintexas on July 10, 2008 at 11:50 AM

So here’s the thing:

I’m not all gung ho on McCain. In fact, many times I get pretty annoyed that the Republican candidate in this election isn’t more to the right, and a better spokesman for the right.

But make no mistake, Phil Gramm’s going to be a part of McCain administration. So’s Rudy Giuliani, so’s Mitt Romney, so are a whole host of people who see the world from the same vantage point as me.

Compare them with the people who are liable to make up the Obama administration.

Yeah, I got problems with McCain, but…well, I ain’t stupid.

Typhoon on July 10, 2008 at 11:53 AM

Democrats call Gramm out of touch for calling the US a “nation of whiners”…

…who should learn Spanish.

Akzed on July 10, 2008 at 11:55 AM

I saw this on The Sludge Report. Isn’t the partisan “overheated rhetoric” coming as the Obama campaign response just the sort of negative campaign garbage that the ObaMessiah was supposed to hopenchange us out of?

Check off another lie in the form of meaningless electioneering: it’s the same old/same old from Obama.

Jaibones on July 10, 2008 at 11:57 AM

The Democrats and their sycophants in the mainstream media are using incessant repetition in an attempt to create the belief of the country being in recession when it is not.

Wildcatter1980 on July 10, 2008 at 11:58 AM

McCain would be great on foreign relations and defense, but he would suck on the economy. First of all, Phil Gramm is not even working for a US company. Second of all, he is McCain’s #1 go-to guy on economic issues.

indythinker on July 10, 2008 at 11:58 AM

And the most ironic part of this criticism is that most of the people launching it want to do exactly what Hoover did — revert to economic protectionism.

In my opinion there is no irony because I think that they desperately want the economy to crash. They think that a good economy is bad for change. If people are fat, dumb and happy they like to keep it that way. They need us to be miserable so that we will demand change and they are the go to girls for change.

jmarcure on July 10, 2008 at 11:59 AM

In fact, growth ticked slightly upwards in the last quarter from 2007Q4, going from 0.6% to 1.0%.

Technically Wall Street is in a bear market. These government growth numbers are often revised down and likely will be. I don’t see how you can consider our economy in great shape when we are about to lose our big 3 auto makers (wasn’t GM the largest company in the world at one point?), our airlines are in the throws of bankruptcy, and our banking system is only being propped up by favorable fed.

The value of the dollar is half of what it was before Bush came into office. I don’t think it is a bad economy and I’m not personally complaining. But a recession in a capitalistic economy is inevitable. It isn’t bad, it is a contraction that is necessary. We don’t need all these banks and the bad ones should fail. . . it makes for a stronger economy.

So whether or not the official numbers show recession, we are in one. It’s OK if you want to ignore it by pointing to government numbers and talking about technicalities. But housing, rising unemployment (the number isn’t as important as the direction), technical BEAR MARKET, and inflation are precursors to recession. . . econ 101.

ThackerAgency on July 10, 2008 at 11:59 AM

profitsbeard on July 10, 2008 at 11:46 AM

Yep. The pain at the gas pump is real, not emotional. It happens every week at fill up time and will be constantly in the face of voters down the stretch. It overides black skin and war in Iraq. It will decide the election.

a capella on July 10, 2008 at 11:59 AM

Phil Gramm is not even working for a US company.

indythinker on July 10, 2008 at 11:58 AM

Explain.

right2bright on July 10, 2008 at 12:00 PM

In terms of the psychology of economics, there’s an upside and a downside to electing Obama. Once he’s elected, the media will begin painting a rosy and optimistic picture of the economy, which will help lift the consumer fear and malaise of which Gramm accurately speaks. However, when Obama and the Dem Congress raise taxes, do nothing about the energy crisis, and start spending even more irresponsibly than ever before, the economy really will collapse. If McCain wins, the media will never stop its relentless litany of doom and gloom, and we’ll get a recession through a self-fulfilling prophecy. So the current fear of recession is probably quite accurate after all. It will most likely happen soon after the next president takes office, one way or another.

aero on July 10, 2008 at 12:00 PM

Think of what damage the Great Depression did to our nation, yet what incredible dividends it paid in character. My great great grandfather (a plumber) made it through by designing and selling chemical toilets. I’m not trying to gild a turd here, no pun intended, but there is a silver lining to this.

Dr. Manhattan on July 10, 2008 at 12:01 PM

Explain.

right2bright on July 10, 2008 at 12:00 PM

I think Gramm works for UBS now, which is a Swiss Bank with a large international presence, including a large presence in the US.

phronesis on July 10, 2008 at 12:02 PM

Yeah, I got problems with McCain, but…well, I ain’t stupid.

Typhoon on July 10, 2008 at 11:53 AM

Boy, I sure feel your pain in a big big way. My problem is that I am so mad at McCain over amnesty that I don’t think I can get my arm to pull a lever for him even though I know Obama will be an Obamination.

Also, count me in as a whiner. Everywhere I look, the radar screen is white with stupidity. My latest outrage is the 65 billion spent on Katricians in New Orleans which produced zero good. The incredible foolishness of the congress continues to pile up and drive me nuts.

Worst of all, with an approval rating of 9%, all the yap shows insist the dems will increase their majority. How can one not be disgusted with the government and the electorate?

saiga on July 10, 2008 at 12:03 PM

Gramm is spot on with his comments (except the Einstein one). The slowing economy is based on many reasons, one being it is the victim of a self-fulfilling prophecy. The same doom and gloom permeated the media at the end of the Bush I administration and then as if by a miracle, the same statistics became positive news the day Clinton took office. Same ole same ole.

HawaiiLwyr on July 10, 2008 at 12:04 PM

We have sort of become a nation of whiners

I love you Gramm, and want to have your babies.

LimeyGeek on July 10, 2008 at 12:05 PM

I wish the republician party would stop this line of attack. it is costing us votes. The truth is if you read the first page of Dickens “Tale of Two Cities” you will be able to describe this economy. Gramm “let then eat cake ” attitude is the wrong message to send. It is true that a large percent of the people are doing good/great but it is also true that a large percent of people are hurting.

The line Gramm and Ed seem to want to take is that because they and a large portion of the economy is doing great then everyone is doing ok. This is the line of attack that brought Clinton to power.

The reps need to state that while the economy is staying above water, many American are suffereing from high gas prices, losing their homes in numbers not seen since the depression and losing faith in the banks and government insitutions.

the reps can then give their policies on how to reduce gas prices, stop forclosures and restore the faith in the banks and insitutions by favoring the middle class over the rich. Yes it is a free market but when some owners of companies profit by shipping jobs overseas, when others pay less taxes (as a percentage) then workers pay there is a problem. When you are in a fight you take away your opponents weapons not give him more ammuntion to shoot you with.

unseen on July 10, 2008 at 12:06 PM

Explain.

right2bright on July 10, 2008 at 12:00 PM

I think Gramm works for UBS now, which is a Swiss Bank with a large international presence, including a large presence in the US.

phronesis on July 10, 2008 at 12:02 PM

I just don’t get the connection of “he isn’t working for a US company”.
I guess he thinks that you can only have economic experience if you are currently working for a US company? Or that working for an international company disqualifies you? I just don’t see the connection…is he suggesting that Gramm is a communist or something? It was just a weird sentence I did not understand.
Maybe he will explain.

right2bright on July 10, 2008 at 12:06 PM

aero @ 12:00 – I did not see your post – I guess it popped up while I was typing – great minds think alike I guess.

HawaiiLwyr on July 10, 2008 at 12:06 PM

That is not the Phil Gramm I used to know.

trs on July 10, 2008 at 12:08 PM

The democrats ARE whiners. When do they ever talk about anything and not complain about it?

SouthernGent on July 10, 2008 at 12:08 PM

ThackerAgency on July 10, 2008 at 11:59 AM

We are in a bear market; we’ve bear markets without going into recession before. The bottom line is that total corporate profits have declined although they are growing at a very healthy rate outside of financials and consumer discretionary. Stocks are declined more than expected profits have declined as multiples have contracted. We may fall into a recession although we certainly won’t in Q2 or Q3. In fact economists have been revising GDP estimates for Q2 upward.

phronesis on July 10, 2008 at 12:08 PM

Miraculously, the “recession” we have been hearing endlessly about for over a year will end on January 21, 2009. Just like the “recession” of 1992 miraculously ended on January 21, 1993 after Bill Clinton was inaugurated.

rockmom on July 10, 2008 at 12:09 PM

unseen on July 10, 2008 at 12:06 PM

Yes, it it falls into the trap of:
“It’s the economy stupid” and the economy is the perception by the people, not what some economist with statistics state.

right2bright on July 10, 2008 at 12:09 PM

I wonder if the MSM will let McCain get away with saying that Gramm was just being “inartful”?

rockmom on July 10, 2008 at 12:09 PM

Look, Gramm is right and he’s wrong. I don’t mean to sound wishy-washy on the subject, but his opinion has to more to do with is poor characterization than it does with his opinion.

We are a nation of arguers. The greater the number of issues, the more there is arguing. The trouble we have now is that we are extremely divided now on which track to take on some very controversial issues. Worse, we;ve gotten to the point where we never put any issue to bed.

The way I see it, the primary basis for this is the serious ideological divide on how this country is or should be governed. I have trouble putting my finger on some remarkable single point to describe it, but in trying to whittle it down I’m near the point where Gramm is though I’d say the problem is that peoples wants are insatiable and those in government are afraid to tell people that government can’t sate all those wants, thus they tell us they can do it all.

Who isn’t going to complain when they don’t get what is promised?

Dusty on July 10, 2008 at 12:10 PM

…and that the Democrats should own up to their affliction.

Look, a flying pig!

Physics Geek on July 10, 2008 at 12:11 PM

Thomas Sowell says the same things as Phil Gramm. Both economists…why should we listen to journalists?

kirkill on July 10, 2008 at 12:11 PM

The only thing wrong with Gramm’s economic assessment is not enough honest politicians have the guts to stand up and join him.

Speakup on July 10, 2008 at 12:11 PM

We are in a bear market; we’ve seen bear markets without going into recession before. The bottom line is that total corporate profits have declined although they are growing at a very healthy rate outside of financials and consumer discretionary. Stocks are have declined more than expected profits have declined as multiples have contracted. We may fall into a recession although we certainly won’t in Q2 or Q3. In fact economists have been revising GDP estimates for Q2 upward.

phronesis on July 10, 2008 at 12:08 PM

We really should be able to edit these posts. Or maybe I should actually use preview.

phronesis on July 10, 2008 at 12:12 PM

They were doing the same thing exactly 16 years ago. Any good economic news was called “cooking the books” by the Clinton campaign, even though all those 1992 numbers were actually readjusted upwards after Clinton was sworn in.

It’s very telling when the media claims that these are the worst economic times in 20 or 40 years because you can find all kinds of assertions back in 1992 that then was the worst economic times in many, many years. Totally ignoring the Carter years. So why don’t they call these “the worst economic times in 16 years”? Because it exposes them, that’s why.

Cal Thomas wrote an article in 1993 ( imagining that he would have been allowed to ask Clinton a question during his press conference ) “Mr. President, you said just nine months ago that this was the worst economy in 50 years. Have you single-handedly turned it around and, if so, which of your economic proposals — none of which has passed Congress — caused the virtual overnight improvement?”

Buddahpundit on July 10, 2008 at 12:12 PM

“…Democrats should own up to their affliction.”

Should, yes. But have never and never will.

The first step in solving a problem is identifying the problem. To the Dems and the Libs all problems are the fault of others.

Swinehound on July 10, 2008 at 12:14 PM

“… why should we listen to journalists?”

kirkill on July 10, 2008 at 12:11 PM

Because they are the good lobbyists.

Dusty on July 10, 2008 at 12:21 PM

rockmom on July 10, 2008 at 12:09 PM

Would it were true.

It isn’t, however. The world’s a different place than it was in 1992, and Barry is not Bill Clinton. Barry’s going to take a hard left turn and it certainly is possible he could crash the economy in so doing.

However if that happens, the press won’t let on it’s the fault of his policies. They’ll cheerlead and point blame at greedy corporations and suddenly become fulsomely patriotic and demand that we all love our country in the form of our new benevolent leader.

Getting out of it could take years.

The fact is that if we have an excellent chance to not only right the economy but make it flourish, since in large measure the underlying cause of our problems is that we’ve neglected our energy infrastructure for years.

If we drill for oil, build refineries and nuclear plants, and show the world that we’re back in the business of being a serious country, the dollar will rise and our economy will boom.

Regardless of the press, if we don’t, Lord help us all.

I agree McCain is far from the perfect candidate to spread the message, but at this point and however it happened, he’s all we’ve got.

Typhoon on July 10, 2008 at 12:21 PM

its not just the left, the cranks on the far right see economic doomsday around every corner too. the mises crowd.

jp on July 10, 2008 at 12:22 PM

right2bright on July 10, 2008 at 12:09 PM

Yes, preception is more important than reality. Economies are forward looking. If you believe tough times are ahead, you cut your spending, you save more, you pay off bills and you hunker down for the coming storm. Thus all recesions are self fulfilling. This is human nature. If your costs go up but your income doesn’t you have to spend less (unless your the gov)

It is not “gloom and doom” It is the preception of the coming reality. To change the future you must change the present preception. You can do that by reversing the trends that formed the preception in the first place. Like lowering costs, increasing employment, lowering taxes, attacking tax cheats. this area is where the communication department of the Bush admin is failing. Housing and gas prices should be all the president is talking about. The belief that it is not major issues because the GDP grew 1.0% is not a vote winner.

saying that the peoples preceptions is wrong is like calling people stupid. It might be true but it also will not get you any votes.

unseen on July 10, 2008 at 12:22 PM

Republicans have tried for years to increase both domestic production and refining of oil, as John Boehner reminds everyone today in the New York Post, but the Democrats have obstructed all efforts.

Doesn’t wash with me. It goes without saying the Dem’s stymie everything. But I can’t recall any serious public discussion like the kind we’re having now when Reps. controlled the legislature and executive.

The issue is open for either party to grab right now, but both share the blame for complete ineptitude and lack of leadership re. energy policy.

JiangxiDad on July 10, 2008 at 12:24 PM

The Dems: “LaLaLaLa… We’re not listening! We can’t hear you! LaLaLaLaLaLa” as they cover their ears with their hands…

CynicalOptimist on July 10, 2008 at 12:25 PM

It isn’t, however. The world’s a different place than it was in 1992, and Barry is not Bill Clinton. Barry’s going to take a hard left turn and it certainly is possible he could crash the economy in so doing.
Typhoon on July 10, 2008 at 12:21 PM

Agreed. In retrospect Clinton was pretty good on economic issues especially after he had a republican congress hold his feet to the fire. Barry the Boshevik, on the other hand, is likely to be a disaster. Even if he is lying about the anti-NAFTA, etc. protectionist stuff, he still plans disastrous things like a nearly 90% hike in the capital gains tax, a tax which even Clinton lowered.

phronesis on July 10, 2008 at 12:25 PM

Finally, a McCain story. I’ve been wondering if all we were getting here now is all Obama all the time. I can understand why the Mainstream news stays on Obama and ignores McCain but I don’t quite understand why a right wing blog would not cover McCain at all..until I went and found what he was doing yesterday. Talking comprehensive immigration reform with the league of united latin american citizens. I guess that’s why we have 7 or 8 Obama stories and one Phil Gramm gaff on McCain’s behalf. So now Hot Air is going to be like the MSM and ignore stories that don’t make their candidates look good? Taking advocacy a little far aren’t we?

austinnelly on July 10, 2008 at 12:25 PM

Worst of all, with an approval rating of 9%, all the yap shows insist the dems will increase their majority. How can one not be disgusted with the government and the electorate?

saiga on July 10, 2008 at 12:03 PM

Just ’cause they say it doesn’t make it so.

It’s a long time til November. And in my travels what I see is that people “get it.”

They know we’ve been living on credit for forty years and that it’s time to pay the bills. They know and I sense that they know we’re playing for keeps this time.

The campaigns really haven’t begun, but my sense is that anyone campaigning on a platform of anything other than producing our way back to prosperity is going to lose.

Of course the Dems can’t do that. I think they’re in a box that will become more apparent the closer we get to November.

Typhoon on July 10, 2008 at 12:28 PM

The sad thing is that Gramm is right, but you cant say it.

When the spouse asks if they are fat, you dont tell the truth. Same goes here.

WoosterOh on July 10, 2008 at 12:28 PM

If we drill for oil, build refineries and nuclear plants, and show the world that we’re back in the business of being a serious country, the dollar will rise and our economy will boom.

I agree McCain is far from the perfect candidate to spread the message, but at this point and however it happened, he’s all we’ve got.

Typhoon on July 10, 2008 at 12:21 PM

Like you say, let’s hope he’s up to it. Yesterday, Kudlow said he read McCain’s latest economic plan and it contained no mention of cap and trade. Surprised, Kudlow contacted the campaign and was told cap and trade was out.

Shortly thereafter, Ace reports from Ambinder that the campaign now says cap and trade is most definitely NOT off the agenda.

Two responses within 24 hours, diametrically opposed to one another. NOT reassuring.

JiangxiDad on July 10, 2008 at 12:30 PM

as an aside. As anyone notice that in every report with BHO and McCain. BHO comments are always first and McCain’s are always last. And in everyTV news report BHO is always picture on top of McCain or BHO is also the first comment aired? This is even going on at FOX news.

unseen on July 10, 2008 at 12:31 PM

Note to Phil Gramm: your candidate Sen. McCain says in his latest campaign ad that the “economy is in shambles.” That is an exagerration, of course, but that is your guy talking. Better get your message straight.

2nd note to Phil Gramm: nearly all Americans are rightly very concerned about skyrocketing energy costs and a very feeble dollar, which in combination is driving costs of food and other things up, and diminishing the buying power of their hard earned dollars. If you and your candidate aren’t also very, very concerned about these developments, and ready to tackle them head on come Jan09, you are both truly out of touch and are going to have your as*es handed to you in Nov.

james23 on July 10, 2008 at 12:31 PM

Mav throwing Gramm under the bus in 5…4..3…2…

What the McCain folks should do is double down on Gramm’s comments, and explain they are aimed at the elites in the media and Congress, not hard-working everyday folk. Go right after the Dems in Congress and in media elite-land with all their abjectly doom and gloom statements that are horribly wrong far more often than they are right.

Sadly, what I expect Team Mav to do is publicly flog Gramm for his insensitvity to the plight of Americans struggling to find their way in this, the worst economy since the Depression. Someone from the McCain shop will be all over TV today apologizing for this, when what they should be doing is pushing back with all their might.

Worse yet, this is all the Mav’s press plane people will want to talk about all weekened and the Sunday talk shows will have hard luck cases featured prominently.

ABC/CNN/NBC/CBS News street interviewer to Times Square tourist: “John McCain says Americans are whiny when they express fear of how the Bush economy has destroyed the country. How do you feel?” Better yet, they’ll “find” another one of those “lifelong Republicans” (who somehow managed to work for Dukakis, Kerry, Mondale and Carter) to cry their eys out on TV about how out-of-touch the Old Man is.

Bank it, folks.

Mike D. on July 10, 2008 at 12:31 PM

I believe our near to long term economic future depends on what happens with the oil problem. Every dollar spent on gas is one less dollar spent on something else. Oil pevades almost every category of our economy from agriculture to the military to medicine. Nothing today moves without it. If we don’t come up with a substitute within the next 25 years, the withdrawl symptoms will be debilitating.

Oil will become increasingly expensive, and a more formitable economic weapon in the arsenol of other countries. The oil age is less that 150 years old, with it beginning big time in 1910. All the experts seem to agree that so far, we have used slightly less than 50% of the worlds reserves, and the usage is on the rise. Between the stone age, bronse age, and iron age etc., the oil age is expected to be the shortest.

Unless huge new reserves are discovered, trouble lies not too far down the road. The conditions to create oil deposits are very specific, and the geology is pretty good right now. I have not heard any oil experts say they expect to find any new oil deposits the size of the middle east deposits in the future, but who knows.

saiga on July 10, 2008 at 12:32 PM

Phil Gramm is not even working for a US company

Like, so what?

MarkTheGreat on July 10, 2008 at 12:32 PM

Relax everyoneMcCain will make a statement later today throwing Gramm under the bus.

Guaranteed - McQueed will make himself the fool before the end of the day.

jake-the-goose on July 10, 2008 at 12:34 PM

james23 on July 10, 2008 at 12:31 PM

+1

a capella on July 10, 2008 at 12:36 PM

the same statistics became positive news the day Clinton took office

For most of Bush’s term, the economic numbers have been better than when Clinton was in office, yet somehow Clinton had the greatest economy ever, and Bush is presiding over the worst economy since the great Depression.

And who says the MSM ain’t biased.

Kind of like having the issue of homelessness disappear whenever a Democrat is in the White House.

MarkTheGreat on July 10, 2008 at 12:37 PM

I have not heard any oil experts say they expect to find any new oil deposits the size of the middle east deposits in the future, but who knows.

saiga on July 10, 2008 at 12:32 PM

Well the oil shale is about 3 times the size of the entire middle east. but who knows if the dems will allow it to be mined. And the experts say that ANWR may hold up to 40 billion blls of recoverable oil aboutyear and half of the total world usage but it is questionable if the dems will allow drilling there. And the experts say that at least 86 billion blls of oil lie off our coasts but again it is questionable if the dems will allow us to drill.

and then just found 5 Trillion cubic feet of natural gas in PA. etc.

unseen on July 10, 2008 at 12:38 PM

Gramm “let then eat cake ” attitude

Just how is pointing out that things are not as black as the media portrays it to be, a “let them eat cake” attitude?

MarkTheGreat on July 10, 2008 at 12:39 PM

Miraculously, the “recession” we have been hearing endlessly about for over a year will end on January 21, 2009. Just like the “recession” of 1992 miraculously ended on January 21, 1993 after Bill Clinton was inaugurated.

According to economists (look up the figures for yourself if you want) the recession of 1992 ended in the 2nd quarter of 1992, some three to six months before the election.

MarkTheGreat on July 10, 2008 at 12:41 PM

If I remember right, the recession of ‘92 wasn’t even a recession, as there was only 1 quarter of actual decline.

MarkTheGreat on July 10, 2008 at 12:41 PM

Gramm made a mistake, though, in assigning whiner status to the entire country

Half a mistake. Half the country are idiots who vote Democrat. And whine.

misterpeasea on July 10, 2008 at 12:42 PM

Unless huge new reserves are discovered, trouble lies not too far down the road. The conditions to create oil deposits are very specific, and the geology is pretty good right now. I have not heard any oil experts say they expect to find any new oil deposits the size of the middle east deposits in the future, but who knows.

saiga on July 10, 2008 at 12:32 PM

Well there’s all that oil shale in the Rockies. And of course we really don’t have any idea what’s under the oceans. We’ve never really looked.

However, the other day I followed a link on one of the British newspapers about some guys in San Jose who had come up with some genetically engineered microbes that–basically–eat agricultural waste and crap crude oil.

Anything from corn stalks to wood chips.

Here’s hoping they’re onto something.

Typhoon on July 10, 2008 at 12:43 PM

The more I think about it, Phil Gramm’s comments might be the dumbest, most completely out of touch statement about the economy since Jimmy Carter went on tv back in 78 and blamed people’s unhappiness about a stag-flated economy triggered by oil price shocks on the peoples’ “malaise.”

That idiot got what was coming to him in NOv. 1980. If McCain starts parroting Gramm, he will get creamed in NOv 08, and rightly so.

james23 on July 10, 2008 at 12:43 PM

Truth hurts!

Gramm rocks!!

1 hit, no errors!

landlines on July 10, 2008 at 12:46 PM

But I can’t recall any serious public discussion like the kind we’re having now when Reps. controlled the legislature and executive.

I can.

In Bush’s first term he tried on three seperate occassions to allow drilling in ANWR. The bills passed the House all three times, and all three times was filibustered in the Senate.

MarkTheGreat on July 10, 2008 at 12:47 PM

saying that the peoples preceptions is wrong is like calling people stupid. It might be true but it also will not get you any votes.

unseen on July 10, 2008 at 12:22 PM

That’s the danger.
The way to attack this, is to say we will improve the economy (stay away from if it is bad or good), by….
And of course the number one is to lower fuel costs, number 2 is to secure the borders to secure our jobs,number 3 is to take a look at our trade partners. Even the playing field. If we enforce environmental and safety laws on our companies, shouldn’t we demand that of our offshore partners? Aren’t we just shifting our problems offshore, and then allowing them to undercut us by not having to follow regulations we placed to help the planet and people (and burden our manufactures)?
Number 4, make sure we have incentives for companies to expand and develop.

right2bright on July 10, 2008 at 12:48 PM

Phil Gramm just handed the Obama campaign enough ammo for several great anti-McCain commercials. Way to go, dummie, I guess that’s why they pay you the big bucks.

james23 on July 10, 2008 at 12:49 PM

Note to Phil Gramm: your candidate Sen. McCain says in his latest campaign ad that the “economy is in shambles.” That is an exagerration, of course, but that is your guy talking. Better get your message straight.

2nd note to Phil Gramm: nearly all Americans are rightly very concerned about skyrocketing energy costs and a very feeble dollar, which in combination is driving costs of food and other things up, and diminishing the buying power of their hard earned dollars. If you and your candidate aren’t also very, very concerned about these developments, and ready to tackle them head on come Jan09, you are both truly out of touch and are going to have your as*es handed to you in Nov.

james23 on July 10, 2008 at 12:31 PM

+1.

Many years ago, when our economy was mainly a domestic one, exchange rate fluctuations were news items, but had little effect on day-to-day life. Now, we purchase our energy with our hobbled dollar. And that energy is denominated in oil.

Oil (and many other commodities) is the new world currency.

JiangxiDad on July 10, 2008 at 12:50 PM

Democrats call Gramm out of touch for calling the US a “nation of whiners”.

Out of touch with what? I think it’s a safe bet to say that we have the greatest percentage of whiners now than anytime in history. I suppose that’s a natural consequence of having an incredible high standard of living for so long.

Each generation makes things easier fo the next, which means the next generation becomes far more lazy, whiny, spolied and soft.

Gas prices suck for sure, but people can adapt. People can’t seem to do without their useless luxuries. $100 plus for 300 cable channels of crap, no problem. $50 for broadband internet – NP. $40 for cell phone service with unlimited text messaging, dvd players in minivans because the kids are too spoiled to shut up and sit still for a drive, video game consoles, a $2 cup of sludge from Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts (or even worse $4 for a chilled cup of sludge), bottled tap water, GPS in vehicles because a $1.99 map is too complicated, and on and on… boo freaking hoo.

Oil is more expensive in India and China, too. They won’t be able to handle it as well as we can, so eventually demand will decrease and prices will follow. Of course we can add some of our vast reserves to the world supply and help lower prices, build a few refineries while profits are high, but noooooo.

Buy a coffee maker and a travel mug, buy a water filter if your tap water sucks, drop the extra 200 cable idiot reality show channels (I saved $4,900 a year doing just that), and suck it up.

reaganaut on July 10, 2008 at 12:50 PM

According to economists (look up the figures for yourself if you want) the recession of 1992 ended in the 2nd quarter of 1992, some three to six months before the election.

MarkTheGreat on July 10, 2008 at 12:41 PM

Statically you are correct, but they are talking about the MSM and the people. Stats don’t vote. The recession was “kept alive” until after the election.

right2bright on July 10, 2008 at 12:50 PM

So whether or not the official numbers show recession, we are in one. It’s OK if you want to ignore it by pointing to government numbers and talking about technicalities. But housing, rising unemployment (the number isn’t as important as the direction), technical BEAR MARKET, and inflation are precursors to recession. . . econ 101.

ThackerAgency on July 10, 2008 at 11:59 AM

That’s right. Also, the export surge that Ed mentions is really a function of the weak dollar–a weak dollar which helps drive up energy costs.

Gramm’s a smart guy with regard to the economy, but with the trillions of dollars in wealth that have disappeared in the past year, he’s got a tin ear for appealing to voters.

Also, Gramm might want to pay more attention to UBS, which is facing its own challenges. Maybe he is listening to his Chief Equity Strategist David Bianco who thinks the S&P will end the year around 1600. Hope he’s right but I think he may be more than a little “euphoric”.

dedalus on July 10, 2008 at 12:51 PM

Just how is pointing out that things are not as black as the media portrays it to be, a “let them eat cake” attitude?

MarkTheGreat on July 10, 2008 at 12:39 PM

It doesn’t have to be true. Look, I’m all for the free-enterprise-will-save-us tract, but one of the things that really irks me about the Republican establishment is that not everyone can be a CEO, or CFO, or business owner. A whole bunch of store clerks and forklift operators came into the party with Reagan. My party has the attitude that everyone of these folks can own beach front property. On one hand they are right, they could. On the other hand they are wrong, they can’t. I’m not trying to go all teary eyed over the peeps here but the Party better remember these folks are out there. They don’t care about golden parachutes, they care about what Peter and Paul are going to hit them with today.

Limerick on July 10, 2008 at 12:52 PM

Doesn’t wash with me. It goes without saying the Dem’s stymie everything. But I can’t recall any serious public discussion like the kind we’re having now when Reps. controlled the legislature and executive.

The issue is open for either party to grab right now, but both share the blame for complete ineptitude and lack of leadership re. energy policy.

JiangxiDad on July 10, 2008 at 12:24 PM

Republicans never had a very large majority in either the House or the Senate, and there were lots of Republicans who were either outright liberals like Lincoln Chafee or were in liberal-leaning districts and intimidated by the Sierra Club crowd into voting consistently against drilling. My own former GOP congressman won the endorsement of the Sierra Club in 2006 by voting against drilling in ANWR every time it came up, including once in December 2005 when the Republican leadership tried to tack it onto a defense appropriations bill and shoive it through when everyone had left town for Christmas. There were some serious attempts to get ANWR through but there were not enough votes.

rockmom on July 10, 2008 at 12:53 PM

This whole “perception is reality” thing is BS. Using that logic, go vote for Bambi. He will tell you how awful we are and when he’s elected, we can all piss gold and drive water powered cars.

I’m also tired of hearing how “Americans are suffering” because gas prices are too high. WHAAA. Take a look around the rest of the world and you might find suffering and please don’t forget that we have young men and women being shot at right now, defending your right to pursue the American dream and all some can do is whine ass around about gas prices.

A good friend of mine lost his two year old son in an accident earlier this year, please go tell him how your “suffering”.

Perspective please.

Big Orange on July 10, 2008 at 12:55 PM

reaganaut on July 10, 2008 at 12:50 PM

Bingo.

The recession was “kept alive” until after the election.

right2bright on July 10, 2008 at 12:50 PM

There is always, always, a “recession” in an election year with a Republican President. Always.

Then, if a Democrat wins the election, a miracle turn-aorund occurs, thanks to higher taxes.

misterpeasea on July 10, 2008 at 12:55 PM

I like Captain Ed, and of course you all know how I really hate to diagree with anyone here, but Phil Gramm is not somebody who is going to have much credibility by the end of year, along with Bernanke, Greenspan, Pualson and the rest.

Technically, Ed is right, we aren’t in a recession. But tell that to voters. Anyone here tried to get a job in California or Florida recently?

Specifically, Gramm serves (or has recently served) as a key advisor and lobbyist for UBS, a bank suspected as an enabler of tax evaders. So much so that it has instructed employees not to travel to the United States for fear of investigation. Great advice too – how much has UBS written off now?

And I strongly suspect that his role in reducing bank regulation and supervision, specifically the repeal of Glass-Steagall, is going to come back to haunt him. Yes, it was done on Clinton’s watch, and yes Greenspan also wanted it but…

Unfortunately, by the time the entire credit mess is unwound, everyone associated with it will be tainted, and “change” will be the only safe path to re-election for anyone. McCain lost the election back around 2002-2004, when Greenspan didn’t raise rates fast enough or tighten lending standards or do anything to prevent the magnitude of the crisis now facing us.

And, no, rockmom, the recession will not end in January ‘09. We should count ourselves lucky if it ends in ‘09 at all.

Basic math folks, banks made so much money lending and reselling the loans that would make any loan to anyone at all. And so many borrowed so much and used it stupidly. The U.S. collectively has run up a huge tab, and now it’s a national margin call.

Watch Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – here’s how you know they are insolvent. It’s when they or their surrogates talk to the press and say they have plenty of capital. Also take a look at Wachovia and Lehman Brothers – the Fed is running out of fingers to stick in the dikes.

And folks, calling people whiners is a great way to alienate them and empower your opponents, whether it’s true or not. I wonder wow many folks who are presently suffering from these problems felt like Gramm was calling them names? Do you think that makes those folks more or less like to vote for McCain?

Gramm was stupid to make that comment – it only panders to votes McCain should already get and pisses off everyone else.

olddeadmeat on July 10, 2008 at 12:56 PM

Buy a coffee maker and a travel mug, buy a water filter if your tap water sucks, drop the extra 200 cable idiot reality show channels (I saved $4,900 a year doing just that), and suck it up.

reaganaut on July 10, 2008 at 12:50 PM

You are correct, and you will lose the election with that thought process.
That is the problem that the Dems don’t have. They don’t care for the truth, they respond to what gets the votes. Hence they are harvesting votes, while we are espousing the truth.
We have to get “smarter” and not tell people to “sacrifice” and “suck it up”, that we are lazy, or whiners…as someone says, when your wife asks if she looks fat, you don’t say “yeah, you do”, it’s “hon, you look great, you inspire me to go on a diet, let’s do it together”. The second isn’t a lie, and it will make your life a lot more pleasant.

right2bright on July 10, 2008 at 12:57 PM

Just how is pointing out that things are not as black as the media portrays it to be, a “let them eat cake” attitude?

MarkTheGreat on July 10, 2008 at 12:39 PM
“let them eat cake” is what is thought to have been said by the queen of france when told that the poor had no bread to eat. thus giving a rally cry to the french revolution and cementing the view of the french that the nobility was out of touch with the population. By Gramm saying that the recession is a mental condition and that the nation is a bunch of whinners is the same thought process.

Instead of understanding the root causes of the fear out on mainstreet of higher fuel bills, housing problems in many neighborhoods, unability to get new loans due to the credit crunch, loss and/or threat of loss of jobs to overseas/economic issues and doing something to address those fears and concerns. Gramm and a large part of the rep leadership wants to take the track that the fears are unjustified. This attitude didn’t work for the french nobility and it will not work for the repubs in NOV.

unseen on July 10, 2008 at 12:57 PM

The more I think about it, Phil Gramm’s comments might be the dumbest, most completely out of touch statement about the economy since Jimmy Carter went on tv back in 78 and blamed people’s unhappiness about a stag-flated economy triggered by oil price shocks on the peoples’ “malaise.”

That idiot got what was coming to him in NOv. 1980. If McCain starts parroting Gramm, he will get creamed in NOv 08, and rightly so.

james23 on July 10, 2008 at 12:43 PM

Are you kidding? This doesn’t even come close to John Kerry talking out his ass about a “global test” in a debate, or telling the New York Times we need to get back to treating Islamic terrorists who killed 3,000 Americans like everyday criminals. And that was the candidate himself talking, not a surrogate.

At worst, this was an “inartful” comment by Phil Gramm. McCain doesn’t need to throw him under the bus for it, and he won’t.

rockmom on July 10, 2008 at 12:58 PM

Oil is more expensive in India and China, too. They won’t be able to handle it as well as we can, so eventually demand will decrease and prices will follow.

India and China provide government subsidies for oil. The people in India and China have not seen a difference in the price of gas since oil went over 60 dollars a barrel. They subsidize oil so that their economy can continue to grow. Until they end subsidies (no telling when), their demand will continue to grow.

ThackerAgency on July 10, 2008 at 1:00 PM

Well since the Iraq situation could not be used as a political football for the libs, they had to embellish something!
Self-fulfilling prophecy.

carbon_footprint on July 10, 2008 at 1:01 PM

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