Which Obama will we see — hard Left or nouveau Right? Update: FISA reform passes
posted at 2:15 pm on July 9, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Barack Obama reiterated his support for the FISA compromise, set for a vote today in the Senate after its passage in the House before the Independence Day break. Obama pledged to split telecom immunity from the bill, which would have basically trashed the compromise and thrown the entire effort back to square 1:
The Senate is finally expected to wrap up the bill updating the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act today, which includes the controversial provision of retroactive immunity for telecom companies facing lawsuit. While the bill splits Democrats, it’s expected to pass with united Republican support.
Obama will be back for today’s vote and has said he’ll support final passage.
Two amendments attempted to do just that. The first, sponsored by Arlen Specter, got defeated 61-37, with Obama voting in support. The second, sponsored by Jeff Bingaman and Russ Feingold, also went down to defeat on a 56-42 vote, again with Obama supporting. The latter would have removed telecom immunity entirely, while Specter’s amendment would have forced immunity to wait on a ruling on the constitutionality and legality the NSA’s surveillance programs.
The question now becomes whether Obama will keep his word — or, rather, which word he’ll keep. He promised at one time to filibuster any bill that contained telecom immunity. Now he pledged to support the bill, even with telecom immunity. As John Stephenson notes, his base is ready to explode if he votes Yea on the final bill.
As these votes show, however, the case against telecom immunity has failed to win a majority of the Senate or the House. We can expect a fairly easy passage of the final FISA bill, allowing the NSA to get back to business and the trial lawyers to look for another target. I’ll update this as the news proceeds.
Update, 2:29 pm ET: Obama just voted to approve a procedural motion that will bring HR 6304 up for a vote. Boxer and Durbin voted no on the motion; Obama appears ready to break hearts across the Left.
Update, 2:36: Kristen Breitweiser at HuffPo is keeping a candle burning for Hillary over this. Unfortunately, Hillaryvoted for the procedural motion as well. Looks like she plans to support the FISA compromise, although like Obama she voted for both failed amendments.
Update, 2:39: Clinton changed her vote to No. Profiles in Courage, or did she read the HuffPo article?
Update, 2:45: That was a cloture motion that Obama supported. No filibuster for the netroots! Cloture passed 72-26; the actual vote comes next. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) opened up final debate with a speech in support of the FISA reform.
2:56: Obama votes yes; Clinton votes no. However, voting is still open …
3:04 – Feinstein’s support for the FISA reform shouldn’t surprise too many people. She’s a moderate on nat’l-security matters. Kerry and Boxer, unfortunately, didn’t surprise anyone with their no votes.
3:06 – Bill passes with a 69-28 vote. Did Hillary set herself up for a netroots push at the convention?
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I have a system for dealing with DU very different from yours. I don’t post what they say, I put a rope around their neck and put them on a stool and then I shoot the legs off the stool. Adios.
Tuco on July 9, 2008 at 3:51 PM
And that’s exactly what it’s going to look like. You know there will be plenty of Youtube videos drawing the comparison.
TheBigOldDog on July 9, 2008 at 3:51 PM
Actually, he put the wishes of the Iraqi government, the advice of military commanders, and his own judgment before defeatists. The Congress that represents the American people was never able to get timetables through because not enough of the American people’s representatives supported timetables.
amerpundit on July 9, 2008 at 3:55 PM
Probably just trying to undermine Our Lord and Savior.
doubleplusundead on July 9, 2008 at 3:55 PM
I never use a hammer to swat a fly.
He is not my Messiah you inebriated buffoon!
Tuco on July 9, 2008 at 3:56 PM
I’m ever-mindful of Godwin’s Law but it’s truly getting creepy. Wikipedia has an interesting description. Maybe a bit too interesting.
Gilda on July 9, 2008 at 3:56 PM
We have these things called polls now, they measure how a candidate is doing…it is called polling.
Obama has not gained the traction he needed, after Hillary dropped out, his numbers should have jumped, they crept up a little.
As the question on his flip flops are raised, and now his base will raise it on this one flop…people will begin to suspect that he is an empty suit, not fit (or ready for some) to be president. Why did he change? Because the polls told him to, the polls in his key states.
McCain will be questioned on his political stands, and primarily his immigration stand…few, like the MDS, will attack his ability to lead, especially in comparison to Barack.
right2bright on July 9, 2008 at 3:56 PM
Comparisons, BigDog?
I see the same desperate hope coming from the right that we saw from them before the 2006 election (we’ll retain control of the House and the Senate!).
McCain being behind in the polls is a good thing!
alphie on July 9, 2008 at 3:58 PM
I have a feeling that these “rallies” will be competing with the tie-dye drum circles. The WTO nuts, the GW nuts, the code-pinkos nuts. Buy your popcorn early, it is going to be a doozy of a circus.
right2bright on July 9, 2008 at 4:00 PM
Historically speaking, it’s good for McCain. As I said, the July leader in 6 of the last 9 elections lost.
And, BTW, I saw the same confidence Democrats now express in winning as I saw them express in 2004. Kerry lead by 7 points in July 2004. Worked out well!
amerpundit on July 9, 2008 at 4:01 PM
Do you know anything about sports? I have seen many games where a team had a terrible first half, going into the locker room a few points behind they were happy…you see when all of the momentum, all of the press, all of the free passes were handed to Obama, he only leads by a few points.
Now as the second half begins, adjustments have been made, the team with the edge suddenly realizes they don’t have the same advantage in the second half as the first.
Obama is feeling that shift, if he was so confident, why is he shifting his policies, why change the direction that got him where he is…because his polling is showing, he is losing ground.
Wait until his middle east trip, he will come back all happy about the progress and what we have accomplished. “We still have a lot more to do” will be his only line.
So tell me alphie, you have posted 161 times and 121 of those on your hate for McCain…are you interested in anything else?
right2bright on July 9, 2008 at 4:08 PM
Hussein denies denying his denial.
Akzed on July 9, 2008 at 4:09 PM
Der Spiegel reports that Obama’s speech in Berlin is scheduled for July 24. Some estimates at 100k for crowd size. The sight/sound of that might push the moderates here at home over the cliff (or under the bus).
Limerick on July 9, 2008 at 4:12 PM
You mean Denver isn’t the new Nuremberg rally site? The tone deaf schmucks at camp Obama are actually looking to hold it in Germany???
JiangxiDad on July 9, 2008 at 4:14 PM
At the Brandenberg Gate no less.
Limerick on July 9, 2008 at 4:16 PM
Hey Ed, Ace sortta calls you “Allah” . . . I’m not sure if that’s a compliment or a dis.
infidel2 on July 9, 2008 at 4:16 PM
Could be a stunned look of disbelief on the liberal alphie victim if it turns out to be just like 1994!
The stuff Obama says is astonishing. And that people exist that still swoon over him says a lot about those people.
kirkill on July 9, 2008 at 4:18 PM
I gather he’s shooting for JFK or Regan. He better hope other comparison don’t come to mind instead. IMHO, he doesn’t have the “gravitas” to pull this off. Oh, the average red-lib Berliner will love him, but I doubt his BS will play well here at home.
JiangxiDad on July 9, 2008 at 4:20 PM
Nah, that’s a commenter (buzz), it would be a dis. The description of AP is “je nais se qua, as a super smart European touriste might say.” Like, someone that Obama would be proud of. Nothing truer has ever been spoken on the interwebs.
kirkill on July 9, 2008 at 4:22 PM
Yeah. It is supposed to be his ‘ich bin ein Berliner’ speech. He’ll go over how he really didn’t mean the U.S. was ‘farming out’ diplomacy to the EU.
Limerick on July 9, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Forgive me for thinking only a drunken Moonbat could be so vile. You must be the exception that proves the rule.
TheBigOldDog on July 9, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Now this… this… For once I’m at a total loss for words.
On the bright side, there’ll be plenty of Photoshop opportunities. Ja wir können, ja wir können, ja wir können.
Gilda on July 9, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Denver! Denver! Denver!
GarandFan on July 9, 2008 at 4:27 PM
I’m not a liberal, kirkill.
Just a conservative who is embarrassed by what the Republicans did when they finally got power.
alphie on July 9, 2008 at 4:27 PM
In Alphie’s defense (can’t believe I’m saying this), they’re stuck with Obama. In their hatred of Bush etc., and desire to right racial wrong, they went with the unknown black guy without any experience or record. Now of course, they fear Obama is starting to lose , but they’re still liberal democrats– what else do you expect them to do, vote McCain?
So she defends the guy, absent all reason. Makes a twisted sort of sense.
JiangxiDad on July 9, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Poor Cap’n Barry.
If he turns to starboard, he gets no money. If he turns to port, he gets no votes.
I never did think the guy had much of a chance of winning, but it’s getting to the point now that it truly is funny to watch.
What’s funniest is that he hasn’t got a clue he’s teetering on the brink of being a national laughingstock. You don’t tell Americans they “embarrass” you. Ever. You don’t go to a foreign country to campaign. Ever.
If you want to speak for America and Americans in front of a crowd in another country, first thing you do is earn the damn job.
And if you want to hold a rally in a stadium in front of 70,000 supporters, you’d better first be for something other than your own damn self.
I’m amazed anyone’s still scared of this self-absorbed clown. Sit back. Watch. Enjoy.
Typhoon on July 9, 2008 at 4:29 PM
You mean you just play one on the Internet. Did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night too?
TheBigOldDog on July 9, 2008 at 4:31 PM
alphie, that’s ok, you are wandering in the wilderness. Go to the light, go to the light!
I ask all my friends who are where you are – What are you going to do? Not vote? That’s 1/2 vote for Obama.
kirkill on July 9, 2008 at 4:33 PM
That’s Holiday Inn Express, “you inebriated buffoon!”
SARCASM
Rick on July 9, 2008 at 4:39 PM
I’m not a liberal, kirkill.
Just a conservative who is embarrassed by what the Republicans did when they finally got power.
alphie on July 9, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Looks like somebody is out of ammo…
swami on July 9, 2008 at 4:44 PM
These liberal trolls sure think we are stupid, don’t they? It’s called projection.
rockmom on July 9, 2008 at 4:53 PM
Naaa what they say they think is real.
You know the old adage: If you lie enough times it becomes true.
upinak on July 9, 2008 at 4:56 PM
I’m not wandering, kirk.
I’ll cast my vote for Obama and hope he’s as good as Clinton was for the economy.
alphie on July 9, 2008 at 4:58 PM
Why sure y’are, alphie male, sure y’are. That’s what they all say.
Gilda on July 9, 2008 at 5:00 PM
If you are conservative, I am a little green space demon from the planet pluto and I am drilling on uranus.
Clinton wasn’t good for the economy. Doctoring reports is not a “good” thing. He cut the military budget to 1/4th when in and used the money on such items as researching, spiders on bananas. Please don’t play this card.
upinak on July 9, 2008 at 5:01 PM
I don’t know, Gilda.
You’re about as funny as that “comedy” show Fox News ran a while back.
What was it called.
Didya write for it?
Or are you a Larry Craig man?
alphie on July 9, 2008 at 5:04 PM
Keep up alphie, if you want to play with the big dogs.
upinak on July 9, 2008 at 5:11 PM
Remember the economy turned for George H. W. Bush but not in time enough for the election. The so-called “good Clinton economy” was a result of Bush 41 and the 1994 Republican revolution.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 9, 2008 at 5:15 PM
leftist like Obama have spent the last few years telling the world that Bush has ripped up the Constitution,trampled on our rights and should be impeached for NSA wiretapping program.
and yet again they vote to keep it.
They rail about this unjust war in Iraq.
and vote to fund it over and over.
They want Bush and Cheney arrested over the leak of super
secret Valarie Plame.
One of the anti-war heroes Armitage ends up being the source of the leak. No calls for his arrest.
They yell and scream about impeaching the “war criminals”
Bush/Cheney.
They have the power to do it,but don’t.
They yell and scream for more than a decade about Saddam’s
Wmd/nuclear programs and ties to al-qaeda then vote to send our men and women to war.When the going gets tough,they sell out the country and stab the American Soldier in the back for political gain by yelling for Surrender and pushing bullsh$t propaganda like “Bush lied”,”the war is for oil”,and “9/11 was an inside job”.
While all this was going on,we won the war in Iraq while leftist still say it’s a “civil war” and the “war is lost”.
Now their leading candidate who is running on “superior judgment” because he has accomplished nothing:
spent the last 20 years with his “moral compass” and “spiritual advisor” Rev. wright who turns out to be a racist
bigot follower of black separatism and Obama had no idea.
Attended fund raisers and worked on a Chicago Board with Ayers and his wife,known unrepentant terrorist.
He said the surge would be a failure and voted against it.
He said he would redo NAFTA then called it heated rhetoric.
He has always supported and voted for banning guns but now supports the right to own and carry guns.
He has made it clear that he would pull all the troops out of Iraq regardless of the situation on the ground.
Now will listen to the Generals and bring the troops home as long as Iraq remains stable.
Mr. Hope and change talked all about election finance reform and doing the right thing if the Republican nominee would also.
Then went after the money,ditching his word and supposed “change” on Capitol Hill like the Full of Sh$t Politician he is.
Will talk to terrorist leaders without pre-conditions.
Now he will have “preparations”.
All of this is part of his “Winnie-the-Pooh”National Foreign policy,superior judgment,and commitment to change.
Bottom line is,democrats are committed to electing and defending a:
Supporter of racism and bigotry,that is ripping up our Constitution and spying on Americans,murdering our troops in an illegal war that is lost by leaving them in Iraq,shipping our jobs overseas, and being a Chicken Hawk by wanting to put troops in Pakistan and escalate the war in Afghanistan.
How does anybody take these idiots seriously.
democrats stand for absolutely nothing but personal and political gain,no matter what the cost or how corrupt they have to be to obtain it.
If Obama gets elected,an 8% approval rating of democratic leadership is going to be looking pretty good before four years is up.
Baxter Greene on July 9, 2008 at 5:15 PM
upinak,
America is spending money on defense now at the same rate as we did on WWII.
All to fight a few thousand peasants.
Can you say pork?
Pure pork?
Time to ween the South off the government teat.
Obama is just the guy to do it.
alphie on July 9, 2008 at 5:16 PM
You certainly are a sexy beast, aren’t you?
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 9, 2008 at 5:16 PM
This clown has held every position possible, so no matter what he voted, (yea) he will have kept his word. What a fraud.
oakpack on July 9, 2008 at 5:20 PM
Now you have truly lost all credibility. “Peasants”? I guess you think that we should treat any act committed by these peasants as a routine criminal offense, and let law enforcement handle it?
Rick on July 9, 2008 at 5:20 PM
I KNOW!
***GUSH!***
He’s wonderful, isn’t he?
I mean, is there anything he can’t do?
Typhoon on July 9, 2008 at 5:22 PM
You’ve said this before.
JiangxiDad on July 9, 2008 at 5:25 PM
Just for historical context: When the Dem convention ended in late July of 1984, the polls ( there were fewer then ) said that Mondale was either even with Reagan or two points ahead.
But then, Nixon was 20 points ahead of Humphrey at the end of the historic Dem Chicago convention in late August 1968, and his lead dwindled every week until they were dead even in the polls on the weekend before the election.
but, there was Wallace then….
Janos Hunyadi on July 9, 2008 at 5:29 PM
The gang phoning in their post-pot-smoking orders for Twinkies to the nearest 711 will be more paranoid than ever. Will someone possibly spying on their Recreate-68 Lollapaloooza plans?
onlineanalyst on July 9, 2008 at 6:28 PM
Hey that is a bargain, the same rate?
We spent 288 Billion or about $47 Billion per year (not counting what the Soviets paid us after the war). We are now at $450 Billion per year…You are only off by a factor of 10.
Had a tough time in math did you???
right2bright on July 9, 2008 at 6:56 PM
The ACLU will challenge this law? Is that a matter of lawyers protecting lawyers in order to churn more money into their respective coffers?
Nice roundup of Obama idiocy, Baxter Green.
How does Hillary Clinton justify voting NO on this bill? How can this possibly square with the fact that her constituents were a target of the 9/11 attack?
onlineanalyst on July 9, 2008 at 6:57 PM
Obama as Br’er Rabbit…
Obama in the Br’er patch.
He keeps getting stuck every time he touches something or opens his mouth..
Chakra Hammer on July 9, 2008 at 7:00 PM
Which Obama do we see? Which McBernie do we see?
What’s worse than flip-flopping? Consistently promising two opposing goals at the same time?
The larger problem is the contradictory ambitions of the McCain campaign. The candidate wants to stand for “leadership, courage, and choices.” Yet he also want to be both a supply-sider and a deficit-hawk. He wants to transform our health care system and Social Security without adding any money to either and without anybody getting hurt. He wants to be a tightwad on spending who doesn’t cut any spending anybody cares about. These are impossible policies to explain, because the policies themselves are impossible. No wonder he ends up talking out of both sides of his mouth.
- Robert Gordon and James Kvaal
MB4 on July 9, 2008 at 7:05 PM
Very sad day for the fourth amendment and the pilgrim citizens of the goode olde US of A…!
Olde soldier sends..!
J_Gocht on July 9, 2008 at 7:07 PM
Obama is the typical leftie, promises one thing, and gives you another.
That is why fools follow libs, all they hear are the promises…I promise FISA will never get my vote, until I need votes…
This is the man MB4 is trying to get elected…good luck, your like that weird poster who was anti-Fred, the one that kept talking about Fred’s red truck.
right2bright on July 9, 2008 at 7:44 PM
what ever the big “o” says…..lol!!
jerrytbg on July 9, 2008 at 7:54 PM
Hide your library cards, Koskids, Obama’s coming!
Pandering faster than a speeding bus, able to leap tall stories in a single bound, …look, up in the sky, it’s a nerd, it’s a pain, –no… it’s Barry’um Enema!
profitsbeard on July 9, 2008 at 8:11 PM
I’m not trying to get Obama elected. You are getting more and more hysterical and your attempts at reasoning are becoming more and more uncoordinated.
MB4 on July 9, 2008 at 8:17 PM
At least it’s not being spent on wasteful social programs like, let’s say, universal health care.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 9, 2008 at 9:58 PM
According to most polls, depending on how they are worded, many to most of your fellow Americans are “defeatists” by your Dolchstosslegende redux.
History may be repeating.
Fast forward a bit.
Iraq nation building occupation ends with American troop withdrawal:
Faced with an ineffective Iraqi government, continuing hatred between Sunnis and Shiites with no end in sight, fatigue and deteriorating morale among the over used and abused American troops who were placed in between waring infidel hating Muslims, resistance to continue the war on the part of the American people and a rebellion in Congress with a threat to cut off funding, a newly elected Americant President agreed to bring American forces home.
The failure of the Iraqi war supporters to admit that President Bush’s Iraqi nation building occupation policies had been ill advised and a profound failure would have a huge impact on their psyches and its impact would be manifest in their desire to involve the American nation and it’s military in yet another war and nation building occupation that they felt could be won this time thus bringing them vindication.
Many Neocon internet web sites and Neocon radio talk shows would support the false idea that President Bush’s Iraqi nation building occupation policies had been going very well and with just a little more time and just a little more surging and just a little more stay the course the Iraqi nation building occupation would have resulted in the building of a successful democratic, rule of law Iraqi nation that would be an ally in the war against terror and serve as a shining example for the rest of the Middle East.
They believed that President Bush’s Iraqi nation building occupation policies had been visionary and brilliant and would have soon succeeded, except for being betrayed at home, the infamous ‘Stab in the Back’ theory. (Similar to the myth and betrayal theory [Dolchstosslegende] popular in Germany in the period after World War I which attributed Germany’s defeat to a number of domestic betrayals instead of failed geostrategy.)
This ‘Stab in the Back’ theory would become hugely popular among many Neocon internet web sites and Neocon radio talk show hosts who found it impossible to accept the fact that President Bush’s Iraqi nation building occupation policies had been an unmitigated disaster.
During the actual Iraqi nation building occupation fiasco, many Neocons became obsessed with this idea, especially laying blame on what they called “traitors”, “White flag wavers”, “defeatist cut and runners” and “surrender monkeys” in America for undermining the Iraqi nation building occupation effort. To the Neocons, and so many of their followers, the American congress men and women and their fellow Americans, the clear majority of whom did not support President Bush’s Iraqi nation building occupation policies, would become known as the ‘Defeatist Criminals.’
MB4 on July 9, 2008 at 10:20 PM
We hear praise of a power-wielding, arm-twisting President who “gets his program through Congress” by knowing the use of power. Throughout the course of history, there have been many other such wielders of power. There have even been dictators who regularly held plebiscites, in which their dictatorships were approved by an Ivory-soap-like percentage of the electorate. But their countries were not free, nor can any country remain free under such despotic power. Some of the current worship of powerful executives may come from those who admire strength and accomplishment of any sort. Others hail the display of Presidential strength simply because they approve of the result reached by the use of power. This is nothing less than the totalitarian philosophy that the end justifies the means If ever there was a philosophy of government totally at war with that of the Founding Fathers, it is this one.
- Barry Goldwater
MB4 on July 9, 2008 at 10:26 PM
Now I can see why you use the quotes of others.
right2bright on July 10, 2008 at 12:35 AM
Don’t be so silly. You couldn’t see the nose on your own face if the angel Gabriel were standing on it.
MB4 on July 10, 2008 at 1:10 AM
Only an idiot,so blinded by their ideology and ashamed that
they yelled surrender while our President and the American Soldier fought on to victory can still be able to stand in the middle the room with their hands over their ears jumping up and down yelling “Iraq is a failure!! Iraq is a failure!! the war is lost!!!”.
The defeat of Al-qaeda in the central front of the War on Terror,the neutering of Sadr,and the Freedom of over 25 million people from a terrorist,genocidal dictator has happened in Iraq.
The people that said the violence would never stop,the Shia,Sunni,Kurds would never find social or political reconciliation,the Maliki government would never work,and America would fail in Iraq have been shown to be absolutely
beyond a shadow of a doubt 100% wrong.
Reality is a bitch,deal with it.
Al-Maliki: Iraq Defeated Terrorism
Sunday, July 06, 2008
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,376821,00.html
BAGHDAD — Iraq’s prime minister said yesterday that the government has defeated terrorism in the country, a sign of growing confidence after recent crackdowns against Sunni extremists and Shiite militias.
Cheer up. We’re winning this War on Terror
Al-Qaeda and the Taleban are in retreat, the surge has worked in Iraq and Islamism is discredited. Not a bad haul
Gerard Baker
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/gerard_baker/article4221376.ece
Bush made the world a safer place
We may jeer him and tell him to go home, but America’s allies continue to benefit from some of George Bush’s decisions
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/17/georgebush.terrorism
Even the Guardian,a European paper that makes the NYTimes
look right wing sees that the world is better off than before 9/11.
You can bet that when “Mr. Change”Obama,the hero of all sheep,comes back from Iraq,he will be spinning and pivoting
trying to tie himself into the success in Iraq,not the failure that BDS sufferers will chant over and over till they die of lack of oxygen from having their heads buried so
long up Olberman’s a$$.
Baxter Greene on July 10, 2008 at 1:20 AM
Is a vote for Obama a vote for a pig in a poke?
Given his single minded drive to be President and the people he selected along the way for his spring-board it appears that he is singularly driven. But what is it that drives him? He obviously felt using the really radical left as his spring-board. That suggests he is “naturally” far left. His wandering all over the political landscape to show people what he thinks they want to see tuned to their venue. That calls into question is real radicalism. It, of course, leaves most anything else up for question as well.
What IS his motive? What WILL he do to the United States of America once he is elected? I don’t think even Michelle Obama knows. I have a feeling that marriage was part of his plan of conquest.
Could he make it this far on his own? I doubt it. Who pulls his strings? What does that person want? (Will that person gets what he wants when Obama is elected? I doubt it unless the strings on Obama are more like anchor chains for an aircraft carrier.
Yes, a vote for Obama is a vote for a pig in a poke. You are getting something only Obama and God know for sure. It is certain that nobody else does.
{^_^}
herself on July 10, 2008 at 5:13 AM
Once again I hope to see a split screen commercial run by the RNC within several days using Obama against himself spoken in his own words. Pound it home.
The YouTube version could end with the question “Is this why the Reverend Jackson wants to cut his nuts off?” In fact they could use that to end all the commercials going forward!
patrick neid on July 10, 2008 at 8:16 AM
Alphie:
If you want to posture as a conservative try something other then parroting the Daily Kos/Moveon.org party line. Try sounding like a Paulist.
Second, you seem not to have a very strong command of mathematical and economic concepts. If our defense spending equaled the WWII rate we would be spending more then 10 times the amount we are spending today. During the Second World War we spend over 50% of GNP on the war effort. John Maynard Keynes would say you are suffering from money illusion. I would say you are just delusional.
jerryofva on July 10, 2008 at 8:20 AM
Playing politics with national security is un-American.
Saddened that so many pro-security 9/11 widows are being ignored for somebody w/ a German-esque name… and yes, I have one.
HotAirJosef on July 10, 2008 at 10:12 AM
First, I’d like to SEE a legal, certified copy of Barack Hussein Obama’s birth certificate. As of date, he still refuses to furnish the MSM and America with a legal, certified copy of his BC. The BCs posted on the Daily KOS, and Obama’s anti-smear web sites, have been deemed forgeries.
byteshredder on July 10, 2008 at 12:01 PM
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