Congress hits single digits: Rasmussen

posted at 2:00 pm on July 8, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

When Democrats won majorities in both chambers of Congress, they pointed to the falling approval ratings of the legislature as a mandate for change.  They have certainly provided it — albeit in the wrong direction.  Rasmussen’s latest polling shows the approval ratings for Congress have reached a new low, and a new achievement … single digits:

The percentage of voters who give Congress good or excellent ratings has fallen to single digits for the first time in Rasmussen Reports tracking history. This month, just 9% say Congress is doing a good or excellent job. Most voters (52%) say Congress is doing a poor job, which ties the record high in that dubious category. …

The percentage of Democrats who give Congress positive ratings fell from 17% last month to 13% this month. The number of Democrats who give Congress a poor rating remained unchanged. Among Republicans, 8% give Congress good or excellent ratings, up just a point from last month. Sixty-five percent (65%) of GOP voters say Congress is doing a poor job, down a single point from last month.

Voters not affiliated with either party are the most critical of Congressional performance. Just 3% of those voters give Congress positive ratings, down from 6% last month. Sixty-three percent (63%) believe Congress is doing a poor job, up from 57% last month.

When Democrats first took control of Congress, its approval rating sat at 15%, which explained quite a bit about the electoral victory Democrats achieved.  They managed to push it up to 26% after four monthsin charge, but it has gone downhill ever since May 2007.  People used to joke about it hitting single digits, but the day has finally arrived under the leadership of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

Oddly, at the same time Democrats have maintained their lead on Rasmussen’s generic congressional ballot.   Last week’s poll shows a 12-point gap, slightly narrower than the 14-point gap in mid-June, but wider than the six-point gap in April.  The GOP has obviously not done a good job in explaining the lack of progress on issues and tying it to Democratic leadership, which seems like an opportunity missed — at least this far.

With energy on everyone’s mind, the Republicans have a chance to change that.  Democrats have decided to “wait for the wind” rather than do anything to ease the supply crisis that has driven prices at the pump out of sight.  If Republicans can take charge and implement a rational energy policy that includes robust domestic production — a position that has gained popularity with voters — they can both increase their standing and expose Reid and Pelosi as the true obstructionists.

Outside of the partisan considerations, having the people’s branch of government in such disrepute seems somewhat dangerous.  Congress needs to take action to restore confidence in the most representative branch of the federal government, which should include an end to corruption mechanisms such as pork.  We cannot afford to wait for the number to sink to zero before repairing its credibility.

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Congress hits single digits: Keeps digging.
Aims for zero.

November 5, 2008
Dateline USA

Every single sitting member of congress was voted out of office yesterday when voters, enraged over the price of energy, and the complete collapse of the US economy, cast their votes for any challenger, regardless of party. In those races where there was no challenger, a write in campaign for ‘none’ tallied more votes than those cast for the incumbent.

Numerous reports of challenges to the vote counts, legal challenges seeking to overturn the result of the election, and civil disturbances marked the opening moves in what appears to be open revolt against congress.

Political analysts were divided over who was at fault, but the anger clearly expressed by voters responding to exit polls yesterday was unmistakable.

One, of many comments expressed the sentiments of voters when John Smith of South Plainsfield said to TV66 reporter, Delores More, “We want them out! If they won’t leave peacefully, we’ll go down there and drag them out ourselves.”

Meanwhile, votes are still being counted for the office of President. Senator Obama has 25% nationally, Senator McCain has 28%, with ‘none of the above’ totaling 32%. 18 million ballots were cast for write in candidates other than ‘none of the above’ with 32 different names gathering over 100,000 votes each. As a result, the next President of the United States will not be known until after the new congress is seated, congressional committee chairmen selected, and other administrative details worked out among the newly elected Senators and Representatives.

Riots, which began last night continue unabated as local police are completely overwhelmed.

TV66 news.

rockhauler on July 8, 2008 at 3:52 PM

EPIC FAIL

rockmom on July 8, 2008 at 3:53 PM

Congress hits single digits, digs.

cool breeze on July 8, 2008 at 3:53 PM

Headed down fast – ZERO coming up!

KarmiCommunist on July 8, 2008 at 3:55 PM

they’ll still be re-elected at around 98%

they’ve done everything they can to maintain power…mccain feingold etc.

right4life on July 8, 2008 at 3:56 PM

So,the UN and congress,have the same thing in common!

canopfor on July 8, 2008 at 3:57 PM

they’ve done everything they can to maintain power…mccain feingold etc.

Which is where the Supreme Court has to come in. And citizens willing to challenge the constitutionality of it.

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 3:59 PM

Last week’s poll shows a 12-point gap, slightly narrower than the 14-point gap in mid-June, but wider than the six-point gap in April. The GOP has obviously not done a good job in explaining the lack of progress on issues and tying it to Democratic leadership, which seems like an opportunity missed — at least this far.

That may be the understatement of the year.

Sadly these numbers mean absolutely nothing. The incumbents, short of several repubs, will be elected AS USUAL. Big swings like the repubs in 1994 are the exception not the rule.

Get used to Pelosi and Reid, you will be seeing them a lot over the years. There’s a reason god invented the mute button.

patrick neid on July 8, 2008 at 4:02 PM

Branch Rickey on July 8, 2008 at 3:03 PM

Seen the musical 1776 several times, enjoyed each and every time…….

Bogeyfre on July 8, 2008 at 4:05 PM

Breaking News January 31,2009

January 30, 2009, Obama signs his first piece of legislation received from the overwhelmingly democratic majority of both branches of Congress, banning all forms of ‘Approval Polling’.

In his comments, the president called the polls ‘divisive’ and against the policies of ‘hope’ and ‘change’, and not helpful to Micheles kids.

cntrlfrk on July 8, 2008 at 4:06 PM

rockhauler on July 8, 2008 at 3:52 PM

You’ve got a screenplay there. I might even start watching TV again to see that one.

JiangxiDad on July 8, 2008 at 4:11 PM

Logically next-step assertion, since voters are driven by greed, voters will not determine optimal government – remove vote to optimize outcome.

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 3:21 PM

Nope. Remove the trough from whence they feed. Line item veto and full disclosure.

And for those who would like to create term limits for Congress, I’d hope they would review JQA and his long-term battle with the gag order. His longevity, and his perseverance preserved the right to petition the government and preserve a Constitutional right. Quite literally, if term limits were in place, that right would now be breached significantly.
Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 3:40 PM

How?

a capella on July 8, 2008 at 4:12 PM

Sure, Congress may be in the tank when it comes to approval ratings, but the concern is that the donkeys’ 12-point lead in “generic” Congressional polling may indicate that come November the electorate may see the “solution” as putting a cloture/veto proof donkey majority in place.

“If it weren’t for those obstructionist Republicans and their game-playing with procedural rules, we’d have enacted Utopia by now” would be the election theme I’d be hammering if I were a donkey strategist. Their base would certainly swallow it whole, and enough independents would as well.

Reid & Pelosi’s disastrous performance as Congressional leaders would ordinarily be cause for mirth and optimism in this election. But I’m afraid that the Republican “brand” is still so toxic right now that we’re going to end up with a double order of “green eggs and ham” after November.

Spurius Ligustinus on July 8, 2008 at 4:16 PM

Single digits to zero, then negative.

The audacity of MSM pundits to maintain their mantra “This is the year of the Democrat” as though referencing victory deserves ridicule. No one even BELIEVES the MSM anymore, anyway.

The democrats not only brought failure policy but insist on keeping failure policy AS THOUGH THE PUBLIC HAS NO IDEA the score, democrat vs. republican on record.

Democrat policy is for losers, made by losers for losers to enforce losing! America loathes losing. America loathes voting for a loser.

DERIDE THE DEMOCRAT!

maverick muse on July 8, 2008 at 4:16 PM

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 3:40 PM

Excuse me, but just what petition for redress do we have a right to?

There is no mechanism in place for it, or Congress would already be in trouble…

Romeo13 on July 8, 2008 at 4:19 PM

i do not care what party this election. pro-drillers get my vote. non-drillers dont get crap. solid

custer on July 8, 2008 at 4:20 PM

How?

a capella on July 8, 2008 at 4:12 PM

Not sure where exactly the question is aimed, so 2 part answer. 1)The gag order (which was Congress limiting topics that could be addressed by constituents) would not have been lifted if not for a repeated assault over time on it by one man. 2) When has government return power it’s absorbed?

Excuse me, but just what petition for redress do we have a right to?

Romeo, you played a part in the death of McCain-Kennedy, no?

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 4:22 PM

they’ll still be re-elected at around 98%

they’ve done everything they can to maintain power…mccain feingold etc.

right4life on July 8, 2008 at 3:56 PM

Ding! right4life is the winner! YOU ARE SOOOOO Correct.

Excellent reminder for the McVainbots!

Well done!

Branch Rickey on July 8, 2008 at 4:29 PM

Nope. Remove the trough from whence they feed. Line item veto and full disclosure.

I didn’t mean to skip this, sorry AC. Line item veto will alter the balance in checks and balances. So again, weaken the executive branch by altering Constitution, but then try to strengthen it by altering Constitution in another area. How about we not and say we did.

I’m not sure what full disclosure means, so I’m passing on that.

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 4:29 PM

“As the Democratic controlled congress reaches single digit approval ratings the Republicans get ready to………”

… cricket chirping.

… cricket chirping.

… cricket chirping.

… cricket chirping.

… cricket chirping.

… cricket chirping.

… cricket chirping.

… cricket chirping………………

Seven Percent Solution on July 8, 2008 at 4:30 PM

Branch Rickey on July 8, 2008 at 3:03 PM

Seen the musical 1776 several times, enjoyed each and every time…….

Bogeyfre on July 8, 2008 at 4:05 PM

actually in my DVD right now. I love the part about (paraphrasing) “The shell my belong to Great Britain but the Eagle inside Belongs to US!”

I really like the backbone that Wm Daniels showed future President John Adams to have.

Branch Rickey on July 8, 2008 at 4:32 PM

I suppose minus quantities are not mathematically possible!! Too bad.

jeanie on July 8, 2008 at 4:38 PM

o/t

In his comments, the president called the polls ‘divisive’ and against the policies of ‘hope’ and ‘change’, and not helpful to Micheles kids nor her “Babies’ Daddy” as she introduced him when he won election in 2004.

cntrlfrk on July 8, 2008 at 4:06 PM

Look it up for yourself.

Michelle “Pouty Pants” said it; not me. I don’t think we shall ever see a “First Lady” as miserable as the half-million a year “attorney” as the lovely but not-so-gracious Ms. Obama(foofama Obama – I just can’t help myself. It screams out to me: Obamafofama, Obama – maybe because my real name screams to be said in the same way and I am projecting? dunno, I have gone WAY too long in this post. Saw wee.)

Branch Rickey on July 8, 2008 at 4:38 PM

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 4:22 PM

that happened because they feared the election backlash, not because we had the Right of Petition for Redress.

That right, though explicitly in the Constitution, has no mechanism to enforce it, and in fact, the government has given its members immunity from Civil suits UNLESS its brought up under a law passed by Congress…

Tell me, where is it encoded into law that Congress, or the President, MUST act on a “petition”?

If there is such a mechanism, than it should be a simple matter to get them to enforce the border laws… which they have not done…

Romeo13 on July 8, 2008 at 4:43 PM

The Republicans are far from perfect, but the Democrats are just plain crazy.

Terrye on July 8, 2008 at 4:44 PM

“If it weren’t for those obstructionist Republicans conservatives and their game-playing with procedural rules d#^% principles, then we’d have enacted Utopia by now I would be el presidente right now.” – John McVain (c. January, 2001)

Spurius Ligustinus on July 8, 2008 at 4:16 PM Branch Rickey

Just teasing.

Branch Rickey on July 8, 2008 at 4:46 PM

People, can’t you see what’s wrong here? THIS ELECTORATE IS IDIOTIC. Deal with it.

leftnomore on July 8, 2008 at 4:46 PM

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 4:29 PM

Actualy I don’t think the Constitutions framers ever envisioned the monster that Bills have become.

Hundreds and hundreds of pages of crap, with things put in in conference that never get voted on.

I think the Line Item veto would go far into restablishing the balance of power envisioned by the founders.

Romeo13 on July 8, 2008 at 4:46 PM

People, can’t you see what’s wrong here? THIS ELECTORATE IS IDIOTIC. Deal with it.

leftnomore on July 8, 2008 at 4:46 PM

Wow, thank you for the back-handed compliment. I think?

Branch Rickey on July 8, 2008 at 4:50 PM

I think the Line Item veto would go far into restablishing the balance of power envisioned by the founders.

Right. That’s why the Constitution should be considered living. It’s what they would have wanted. I mean, they never saw parliamentary abuse before and had no familiarity with any forms of government. ;)

that happened because they feared the election backlash, not because we had the Right of Petition for Redress.

[...]

Tell me, where is it encoded into law that Congress, or the President, MUST act on a “petition”?

1st pargraph – Right. So worked exactly as it should.

2nd – They don’t have to act on it. But the right to petition can’t be abridged. If they don’t address your concerns, you have recourse. That’s one of the reasons we have elections.

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 4:53 PM

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 4:53 PM

Problem is that the petition for redress is explictly different from the right to vote…

Article the third [Amendment I]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Framers apparently had somthing in mind, which has never been codified into law… what that was I have no idea…

Romeo13 on July 8, 2008 at 5:12 PM

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 4:53 PM

Why aren’t you running for office?

I’d donate to someone who probably not only read “Common Sense” – Thomas Paine but understand it as well.

(h/t for you to movie 1776 ;)

Branch Rickey on July 8, 2008 at 5:12 PM

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 4:53 PM

“I mean, they never saw parliamentary abuse before and had no familiarity with any forms of government. ;)”

Nice snark, but actualy the framers had NO experience with government the size which we now have. 2,527,450 People in the entire US in 1776… we now have CITIES with more population and complexity. I don’t think they ever could have imagined the Monster the US Government has become, it was outside their worldview…

Romeo13 on July 8, 2008 at 5:16 PM

Problem is that the petition for redress is explictly different from the right to vote…

R13: Sure, but I’m not saying they are. Here, I’ll walk through it.

People petitioned the government via email, fax, phone not to pass McCain-Kennedy. Congressmen, concerned about the use of the vote according to constituency’s petitions. So, sure, they’re not the same but it’s the reason they bother listening. Which, my point is, they did.

Branch Rickey on July 8, 2008 at 5:12 PM

I’m trying to do my part:)

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 5:20 PM

Romeo13 on July 8, 2008 at 5:16 PM

If after review of Adams’s writings (or Jefferson’s for that matter) on government, you still feel they are naive, well more power to you I suppose. I don’t see where the population affects the principle, though. Not to mention the number of empires available for study that preceded our country.

I would point out that the substance of the debates about curtailing government problems by alteration of the Constitution is, at the end of the day, a way for the citizenry to abdicate responsibility and use government to regulate government. When it’s the responsibility of the citizenry.

It also punishes all for the sins of others, which is not the most American principle either. Ex: my town has a great rep and yours has a shoddy one. But you can’t control yours so you term limit both yours and mine, thereby robbing me of my opportunity to have the representation I really desire.

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 5:32 PM

Is that limbo headline pic Nancy Pelosi on spring break?

MB007 on July 8, 2008 at 5:36 PM

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 5:20 PM

what R13 is trying to say I think ina backhanded way is that petition for redress includes rebellion when all else fails.

unseen on July 8, 2008 at 5:40 PM

unseen on July 8, 2008 at 5:40 PM

Ah, thanks unseen.

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 5:43 PM

the reason Congress is relelected at 95% rate is gerrymandering. Drawing up districts for Political correctness, for racial profiling. etc.

To reform congress we must increase the size of Congress. increase the house by at least 3 and the Senatedouble it. Let 2 senators be choosen by the state and two by the people of that state.

Our Senators and Congress people have too much power. They are too isolated so we must also do away with gerrymandering. There should be no safe rep or democratic seats. Every election should have primary chanllangers and every election should have some time of opposition.

If Mickey Mouse was running against my congressman I would vote for him this election. I don’t care what he has done for me or my city he being a part of congress has screwed my nation.

unseen on July 8, 2008 at 5:45 PM

It would be interesting to develop a list of people and institutions with higher ratings than 9%. Che Guevera, Fidel Castro would probably beat Congress; Code Pink, the Klan might too; certainly used car salesman do better. Courtney Love, Britney Spears and Michael Jackson would beat them. Maybe Robert Mugabe would score lower.

In any case, at 9% they are clearly overrated.

KW64 on July 8, 2008 at 5:45 PM

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 5:32 PM

Nicely putting words in my mouth… did I call them naive?

There was NO government at the time who had the ability to generate, and a daily basis, the reams and reams of paper involved in our current legislative process. Bills are hundreds of pages long, and the entire legislative process is governed by house and senate “rules”, which are not dictated by the Constitution.

Add in the bills with thousands and thousands of individual items, and the size and scope of the Federal Government, and there is litteraly no way for a Congressman to even READ all the bills they are voting on. There are not enough hours in the day to do so.

The framers WERE very very smart men… but I don’t think they could envision the size and scope of what Congress, and the President, now deal with, which was my origional post.

I would also point out that the Senate and its mandate has altered. They no longer represent the States, as it was origionaly envisioned… but now represent the Voters of that State, which is an entirly different mandate, and changed the dynamics of State/Fed power…. which is also part of the problem IMO.

Pure Democracy cannot function longterm without checks and balances on the power of the mob… which was supposed to be through the seperation of Powers of the three branches, along with the seperation of who was represented by the Two seperate Legislative houses.

Romeo13 on July 8, 2008 at 5:59 PM

I might add that many of the recipients of that pork who re-elect their man as a result, are also those with such a bad opinion of Congress. Irony in spades. I’ve got a feeling most congresscritters would be opposed to term limits and would vote against it.:)

a capella on July 8, 2008 at 3:03 PM

Too true!

Maybe what we need is a national referendum on term limits.

onlineanalyst on July 8, 2008 at 6:07 PM

Nicely putting words in my mouth… did I call them naive?

Easy there, I wasn’t trying to put words in your mouth. I thought the phrase “No experience” and “outside their worldview” could be summed up in naive (in this use – ” having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information; credulous: “)

Regardless, I think my point is already been made. We are not a pure democracy, we are a republic; we have a checks and balance system which is not improved by imbalance; and procedural issues are not fixed by alterations to principle.

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 6:10 PM

Of the 100 Senators, I can’t think of 9 good ones.

It is about time to take them all out behind the barn.

bucko36 on July 8, 2008 at 6:25 PM

Problem is that the petition for redress is explictly different from the right to vote…

Romeo13 on July 8, 2008 at 5:12 PM

Does the constitution guarantee a right to vote? Help me out here.

Oldnuke on July 8, 2008 at 6:29 PM

Hopefully I’m not being redundant in pointing out that the President, even with the huge anti-Bush campaign out in full force [pity the morons who signed on], has ratings higher than this lame, liberal, anti-oil for Americans Congress by over 20 points, yet we must not forget that this is exactly what America voted for.

America gets what it deserves.

DannoJyd on July 8, 2008 at 6:46 PM

Great, there are now a larger percentage of people think Elvis is alive then respect congress.
Three times more people think we have been visited by space aliens then respect the congress.
Holy-Moly…

right2bright on July 8, 2008 at 6:54 PM

Oldnuke on July 8, 2008 at 6:29 PM

Article 15…

We don’t vote directly for President or Vice, but do for Representatives and Senators…

Senators were origionaly chosen by the states, by whatever means they decided, as they were there to represent the States… but that changed with… 18th? if I remember correctly? to popular vote.

Romeo13 on July 8, 2008 at 6:59 PM

I would point out that the substance of the debates about curtailing government problems by alteration of the Constitution is, at the end of the day, a way for the citizenry to abdicate responsibility and use government to regulate government. When it’s the responsibility of the citizenry.

Altering the Constitution is one way for the citizenry to regulate and control the government. Doing so is not shirking their responsibility. It may or may not be the most appropriate response to a given problem, but it’s the citizens exercising their lawful power.

flenser on July 8, 2008 at 7:07 PM

Low ratings? Yes, that’s true. But, if you would ask voters across the nation, almost to the person, they would vote for their respective U.S. Representative or Senator AGAIN without much hesitation.

Pelosi and Reid are jokes. So are the rest of them.

Can you say term limits?

joeyb1955 on July 8, 2008 at 7:26 PM

Harry, Nancy, you’ve run this organization into the frakking ground.

ZK on July 8, 2008 at 7:32 PM

Altering the Constitution is one way for the citizenry to regulate and control the government. Doing so is not shirking their responsibility. It may or may not be the most appropriate response to a given problem, but it’s the citizens exercising their lawful power.

flenser on July 8, 2008 at 7:07 PM

Sure it’s lawful. We could, in theory, amend the Constitution so that we never had to vote again. Ability to do something and motive to do something are not the same.

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 7:36 PM

Ed, this is just sad.

The GOP has obviously not done a good job in explaining the lack of progress on issues and tying it to Democratic leadership, which seems like an opportunity missed — at least this far.

Back when the dems were the minority, fillibustering was “obstructionist.”

Once the Dems took over Congress, the “lack of progress on issues” is apparently the entire fault of the Democratic leadership and not, say, “obstructionists.”

To anybody who’s not a partisan hack, that sentiment is a bit in conflict with the following stat. Here’s the number of cloture votes called for in the past few congress sessions:
106th – 71
107th – 72
108th – 62
109th – 68
110th – 121 and counting

Needless to say, this legislative strategy is in dire straights considering the republicans are so unpopular they may end up with less than 40 seats. In that case, you’re likely going to be wishing you had actually done something useful to help promote your party, instead of sitting here guffawing about the unpopularity of Congress and how it clearly is a result of the other party, despite the fact that that party is going to pick up seats come November.

e-pirate on July 8, 2008 at 7:37 PM

Spirit of 1776, are you an attorney? I have a question for you–I’m from Arizona, Cochise County right on the border, so immigration is quite an issue here. Is it possible to get a writ of mandamus against Chertoff in Homeland Security to force him to build the border fence which Congress authorized?

Special K on July 8, 2008 at 7:42 PM

Romeo13 on July 8, 2008 at 6:59 PM

Ok, I just read the 15th amendment three times. You said article 15, I assumed you meant amendment. It does not guarantee a right to vote. Only guarantees that I can’t be discriminated against because of race, color or previous condition of servitude if I go to vote. Not the same thing. I guess you could argue that it’s implied but it’s not specific.

I’ve been looking for this in the constitution for soem time. My son and I just had a long discussion about it and in the end neither of us could find any specific portion that actually enumerated the right to vote. I’m beginning to think it’s not there.

Oldnuke on July 8, 2008 at 7:46 PM

Special K on July 8, 2008 at 7:42 PM

No, sorry, I’m not. My professional life took a slightly different path.

Oldnuke on July 8, 2008 at 7:46 PM

Article 1, Section 2 (for the House) “composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States”

Amdnt 17 (for the Senate) “…elected by the people thereof…”

Is that what you are looking for?

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 7:54 PM

Needless to say, this legislative strategy is in dire straights considering the republicans are so unpopular they may end up with less than 40 seats. In that case, you’re likely going to be wishing you had actually done something useful to help promote your party, instead of sitting here guffawing about the unpopularity of Congress and how it clearly is a result of the other party, despite the fact that that party is going to pick up seats come November.

e-pirate on July 8, 2008 at 7:37 PM

There’s a reason the Republican party is so unpopular, and that is because they are just as bad at the things that make the Conservatives mad as the Democrats.

Fiscal Conservatives. Fiscal conservatives complained bitterly about the years of pork projects that all of the so called Republican Leaders push for each year. Jack Kingston is supposed to be a staunch Conservative. Of course, that Staunch Conservative from Georgia is always at the top of the list when huge amounts of Pork are pushed through. Hundreds of millions of dollars of wasted tax payer money later, and we don’t understand why the Fiscal Conservatives don’t see the advantage of voting Republican.

It’s because in most of the ways that we can see, the Republicans are just as much of the Czarist Prince’s that the Democrats are.

Democrats want to take your guns. Yet it was the Republican Administration at the Justice Department that said. The second amendment may be a personal right, but it’s one we can regulate a lot, even to the point of prohibiting outright. That was the essence of the Republican Justice Department’s reaction to Heller, and possibly a factor in why it was as close as 5-4.

Democrats want to lose the war on Terror. OK, but the problem is the sham votes the Republicans staged showed clearly that they apparently won’t vote to do so. Also those same sham votes were staged in 2005 when the absolute incompetence of the Government at local, state, and Federal levels was on clear display regarding Katrina and the handling of the Iraq War.

All the complaints that the Republican Cheerleaders like Captain Ed whip up are at best lame excuses as to why we should vote Republican.

Conservatives like myself are disgusted with both parties, and I don’t see a reason why I should spend five minutes, much less an hour or two of my day standing in line to cast my vote for dumb, or dumber. Either way, I lose not only those hours, but more faith, as if I had any left, in my elected representatives.

Oh the Democrats will stifle free speech. The republicans would never do anything like that, oh wait, they voted for McCain Feingold hoping that they could quiet the objections of the Press, not the voters, the Press, about Negative Campaigning. So now, it’s a law, you can’t say anything negative about a candidate for sixty days before an election. The President, who said he would veto it, caved to the same special interest pressure, and signed it claiming that he believed it to be unconstitutional.

The first amendment doesn’t say that the Supreme Court shall allow no law. It says that Congress shall PASS NO LAW.

So no, I’m not going to vote for McCain. I’m not going to give him a single dollar, or one damn minute of my time. If he can’t be bothered to pass no law, I can’t be bothered to vote for him. If Republicans can’t pull themselves away from the trough of publicly funded pork, then I can’t support them.

I know the argument, the Democrats are worse. If something is wrong, why should I or anyone accept the idea that a little less of the evil in the form of the Republican Party is somehow better?

Snake307 on July 8, 2008 at 8:03 PM

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 7:54 PM

Not exactly. I was hoping that there was something that clearly guaranteed the general right of citizens to vote. Chosen by the people could interpreted in a lot of ways. The seventeenth is more specific because it uses the word elected which implies a vote, but it is also specific to the election of Senators. I would hope that something as basic to a Republic as voting rights would be enumerated somewhere. I haven’t checked individual state constitutions yet so don’t know what they say.

Oldnuke on July 8, 2008 at 8:04 PM

I was hoping that there was something that clearly guaranteed the general right of citizens to vote.

There’s no specific right to vote in the Constitution. It’s implict rather than explicit. Keep in mind that at the start there was no general right to vote.

flenser on July 8, 2008 at 8:15 PM

We could, in theory, amend the Constitution so that we never had to vote again. Ability to do something and motive to do something are not the same.

The motive for term limits is just a little bit stronger than that to abolish voting, I hope you’ll agree.

flenser on July 8, 2008 at 8:17 PM

flenser on July 8, 2008 at 8:15 PM

Apparently there still isn’t. We just assume there is because it’s implied and because of past actions.

Oldnuke on July 8, 2008 at 8:19 PM

“As the Democratic controlled congress reaches single digit approval ratings the Republicans get ready to………”

… cricket chirping.

… cricket chirping.

… cricket chirping.

… cricket chirping.

… cricket chirping.

… cricket chirping.

… cricket chirping.

… cricket chirping………………

Seven Percent Solution on July 8, 2008 at 4:30 PM

Oh, come on, be fair. The Republicans are getting ready to nominate for President a Senator who just lately is more conservative than ~5% of the Republican Senators in the Senate. Who reaches across the aisle. Works in a bipartisanship-y way to get things done. Espouses Democrat positions on global warming, free speech, and illegal immigration.

What, me worry?

misterpeasea on July 8, 2008 at 8:24 PM

Great, there are now a larger percentage of people think Elvis is alive then respect congress.
Three times more people think we have been visited by space aliens then respect the congress.
Holy-Moly…

right2bright on July 8, 2008 at 6:54 PM

Heh. Puts it all in perspective.

misterpeasea on July 8, 2008 at 8:26 PM

The motive for term limits is just a little bit stronger than that to abolish voting, I hope you’ll agree.

I promise I’m not out to be contrarian, but if the purpose of a vote is for accountability, to remove the power of accountability by vote (with term limits) removes the importance of the vote itself.

Moreover, let me put it to you in a pair of questions. If all members on Congress were term-limit to say 6 years, do you think oversight of government by citizens would increase or decrease?

Do you think the flooding of the switchboard during McCain-Kennedy would have any effect if Senators didn’t have any concerns about re-election?

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 8:26 PM

The best part might be Harry Reid blaming Bush’s ~30% approval rating for dragging down Congress’s 9% approval rating.

And yet. Polling shows the American public prefers Democrats to Republicans 47%-34% on a generic Congressional ballot.

What is wrong with you people?

misterpeasea on July 8, 2008 at 8:34 PM

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 8:26 PM

The principal of term limits is that Power Corrupts, and eventually even the best of us would be corrupted by the power.

Even if you’re a staunch supporter of the Bible, you have had to notice by now that everyone God gave the power of King to, even the wise and brilliant Solomon, eventually became corrupt from the power. Even David, who’s humble beginnings and faith in the Lord became corrupt from the power. We humans are flawed, and the idea is painfully obvious, eventually each of us are tempted beyond our ability to resist.

So could you resist for twelve years? I bet you could resist for a while, perhaps ten years. Then how much damage could you do? How many times have we heard about Republicans and Democrats doing the right thing for a term, or two in congress, only to stumble and throw themselves into the trough of public spending. Idealism and principal apparently gets worn down by constant exposure to the trappings of power.

In my last long post, I mentioned Jack Kingston, and he started out like all good idealistic politicians. Now, he’s just like all the other long serving Politicians. Just as guilty for wasting tax payer money as the rest of them. Set aside hundreds of millions of dollars, run the deficit up a little more, and claim it’s just the way things are done and really, it’s just a tiny percentage of the total budget right? It won’t hurt and will help Georgians right?

Snake307 on July 8, 2008 at 8:34 PM

Does the constitution guarantee a right to vote? Help me out here.

Oldnuke on July 8, 2008 at 6:29 PM

a) It doesn’t have to – recall the 9th Amendment
b) It does obliquely mention such a right in all the amendments where it defines how that right may not be denied.

I would argue that the existence of such a right is nonsense, and the use of the word ‘right’ is inappropriate. However, I know a lost cause when I see one – the word is used, the public have been sold on it as a ‘right’, it is never going to be repealed/amended out of existence.

As far as I can see, until secession, we’ll just have to suck up the fact that voting is considered a ‘right’.

LimeyGeek on July 8, 2008 at 8:35 PM

The best part might be Harry Reid blaming Bush’s ~30% approval rating for dragging down Congress’s 9% approval rating.

And yet. Polling shows the American public prefers Democrats to Republicans 47%-34% on a generic Congressional ballot.

What is wrong with you people?

misterpeasea on July 8, 2008 at 8:34 PM

They haven’t had enough time to forget the dozens of times the Republicans shat upon them yet. Give them another election cycle or two and they’ll forget all about McCain Feingold, Immigration Reform, Huge boondoggle pork programs, and let’s not forget my favorite, Bankruptcy Reform. All good Republican policies, and all screwed the people.

Snake307 on July 8, 2008 at 8:36 PM

If all members on Congress were term-limit to say 6 years, do you think oversight of government by citizens would increase or decrease?

Do you think the flooding of the switchboard during McCain-Kennedy would have any effect if Senators didn’t have any concerns about re-election?

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 8:26 PM

They’d be free to act in the country’s best interests without having to worry about voting with their party or appeasing special interests.

But you do have a point.

How about this: when they’re no longer eligible for reelection, they face a vote to determine whether they go back to private life or go to jail for 6 years.

Then they’d be more inclined to vote the way their constituents want, and less influenced by their party or special interests.

misterpeasea on July 8, 2008 at 8:38 PM

misterpeasea on July 8, 2008 at 8:38 PM

How about if we pay all congresscritters’ salaries in arrears, subject to a majority approval vote by their constituents?

LimeyGeek on July 8, 2008 at 8:40 PM

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 8:26 PM

This is something else I’ve been mulling over for a long time. Your argument is compelling, but I’m not convinced yet that the benefits of term limits would be overridden by the negatives. I’m fed up with a congressional elite that’s entrenched and view themselves as an entitled ruling class.

Do you think the flooding of the switchboard during McCain-Kennedy would have any effect if Senators didn’t have any concerns about re-election?

We got their attention all right, and I think increased their collective pucker factors. McCain says he got the message but I also think he’s going to renege. Which just further supports your position on term limits.

How would you feel about term limits for supreme court justices?

Oldnuke on July 8, 2008 at 8:42 PM

If all members on Congress were term-limit to say 6 years, do you think oversight of government by citizens would increase or decrease?

Given how minimal it is at present, I don’t think it could decrease. And I don’t believe it would increase.

Do you think the flooding of the switchboard during McCain-Kennedy would have any effect if Senators didn’t have any concerns about re-election?

Hard to say. At least, I know it would have had some effect. I suppose you could argue that it would not have had the same effect. Since the relection rate is so high we basically have life tenure for probably a majority of those in Congress. I don’t think that is a good thing.

We have term limits for President. What do you think of those? Would you argue we should repeal 22nd amendment?

What about the idea of term limits for Supreme Court justices?

flenser on July 8, 2008 at 8:43 PM

Beat me to it!

flenser on July 8, 2008 at 8:43 PM

Snake307 on July 8, 2008 at 8:34 PM

I don’t object to your premise re:human nature. Nor would Adams, who echoed similar sentiments in his life. But even with his Calvanist upbringing when he wrote the MA Constitution (by himself), which became the model for the Constitution, he vested the power for restraining those tendencies in separation of powers and by holding officials accountable to the populace.

I understand that people are frustrated with government. I simply would like to point out that there are consequences to term-limits that make it undesirable especially in regard to the desire for them to address the fallibility of man, an idea which our fathers were no stranger to. Term limits won’t make those problems go away, in many regards, it may very well exacerbate them.

I’m all for shorter political careers when appropriate. But I’m for that via ballot box.

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 8:44 PM

Oldnuke on July 8, 2008 at 8:42 PM

flenser on July 8, 2008 at 8:43 PM

I promise to answer, but I am called away at the moment. I’ll come back.

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 8:46 PM

misterpeasea on July 8, 2008 at 8:38 PM

They’d be free to act in the country’s best interests without having to worry about voting with their party or appeasing special interests.

They could do that now, but it’s not in their best interest to always do that.

Then they’d be more inclined to vote the way their constituents want, and less influenced by their party or special interests.

I’m not so sure about that.

Oldnuke on July 8, 2008 at 8:50 PM

congressional elite that’s entrenched and view themselves as an entitled ruling class

They’re not really entrenched – it just seems that way. They are no more entitled to, or secure in, their positions than any other member of congress. We The People keep renewing their employment contracts.

To artificially curtail the will of the people with respect to their desired representation, would be a real hammer-blow to the original intent of the constitution.

What about the possibility that one day we elect wonderful congresscritters? It’ll suck if they have the rug pulled from under them, won’t it?

And what have you really gained?

LimeyGeek on July 8, 2008 at 8:50 PM

How about if we pay all congresscritters’ salaries in arrears, subject to a majority approval vote by their constituents?

LimeyGeek on July 8, 2008 at 8:40 PM

I prefer more punitive measures, but I could go along with that.

How about a rule limiting the amount their total net worth can increase while in office and for, oh, say, 10 years afterward?

Any increase above the limit would be confiscated.

misterpeasea on July 8, 2008 at 8:50 PM

Oh, and ankle monitors. The entire time they hold office.

misterpeasea on July 8, 2008 at 8:52 PM

They are no more entitled to, or secure in, their positions than any other member of congress

Further thought – rather than term limits, I’d be more interested in smashing this mafia-like practice known as ‘jerrymandering’.

There’s a real problem.

LimeyGeek on July 8, 2008 at 8:53 PM

misterpeasea on July 8, 2008 at 8:52 PM

And regular cavity searches

LimeyGeek on July 8, 2008 at 8:54 PM

Further thought – rather than term limits, I’d be more interested in smashing this mafia-like practice known as ‘jerrymandering’.

There’s a real problem.

LimeyGeek on July 8, 2008 at 8:53 PM

Yeah, but how to decide districts? Judges? That gives me a queasy feeling.

Didn’t all this gerrymandering start with those damn civil rights acts? I hate civil rights.

misterpeasea on July 8, 2008 at 8:58 PM

I hate civil rights.

misterpeasea on July 8, 2008 at 8:58 PM

I hate civilians. Sucks to be me ;-)

LimeyGeek on July 8, 2008 at 8:59 PM

Welcome to the express elevator to hell.

But hey… at least they are ethical…..

Hog Wild on July 8, 2008 at 9:03 PM

I hate civilians. Sucks to be me ;-)

LimeyGeek on July 8, 2008 at 8:59 PM

How about this?

Subject them all to the UCMJ. Oh man. I’ll be in my bunk.

misterpeasea on July 8, 2008 at 9:03 PM

Yeah, but how to decide districts?

The Founding Fathers had a simple formula for deciding the number of congressturds, I’m sure we can figure something neutral and consistent.

How about this – graph the area of the state. Find its exact center. Draw radial lines that equally divide the state up into districts by population. Lottery decides which candidate represents which district. Recalculate every 5 years.

LimeyGeek on July 8, 2008 at 9:04 PM

Subject them all to the UCMJ. Oh man. I’ll be in my bunk.

misterpeasea on July 8, 2008 at 9:03 PM

Nice. You’re the man ;)

LimeyGeek on July 8, 2008 at 9:05 PM

Lots of contempt of congress out there I wish it would translate into throw the dumbs out.
MSM yaps repeatedly about W’s record lows but never points out congress is 20 points lower and dropping like Brittanies panties.
Do nothing Dems are responsible for most every problem we are currently facing and W. has done a fantastic job. I am especially enjoying the economic stimulus tax cut he suckered them into.
War still lost Dingy Harry? Its’ going to be hard to ignore the victory parades even if they have to take place only in Iraq.

dhunter on July 8, 2008 at 9:06 PM

Lots of contempt of congress out there I wish it would translate into throw the dumbs out.

Wish in one hand and poop in the other…..see which fills up first.

(h/t Bad Santa)

LimeyGeek on July 8, 2008 at 9:13 PM

LimeyGeek on July 8, 2008 at 8:50 PM

They’re not really entrenched – it just seems that way. They are no more entitled to, or secure in, their positions than any other member of congress. We The People keep renewing their employment contracts.

I agree, that’s why I said they view themselves that way. Again I agree, in Virginia I have a choice coming up Warner a Democrat or Gilmore a Republican, a real moral dilemma for me.

To artificially curtail the will of the people with respect to their desired representation, would be a real hammer-blow to the original intent of the constitution.

Not sure how term limits would curtail the peoples will.

What about the possibility that one day we elect wonderful congresscritters? It’ll suck if they have the rug pulled from under them, won’t it?

Good point and of concern. No corporation likes to lose good qualified people. Congress should be no different.

And what have you really gained?

Senators and congressmen who come to Washington, do the job they’re elected for and then go home at the end of their terms.

Oldnuke on July 8, 2008 at 9:15 PM

LimeyGeek on July 8, 2008 at 9:13 PM

Ha! Hat tip my mother, and she didn’t say poop. She taught me that lesson before Billy Bob was born!

Oldnuke on July 8, 2008 at 9:20 PM

How low can they go?

very, very, very low.

Griz on July 8, 2008 at 9:29 PM

They’d be free to act in the country’s best interests without having to worry about voting with their party or appeasing special interests.

Mister P, ironically with a higher turnover rate, they would be unable to reach office without more use of the party machine, in all likelihood. And there is absolutely nothing that restricts them in voting their conscience now.

As far as special interests, a ton of politicians with power and no future paycheck – you think that is less prone to appeasing special interests? I fully suspect you would see a increase in political favors returned with cushy jobs post term.

How about this: when they’re no longer eligible for reelection, they face a vote to determine whether they go back to private life or go to jail for 6 years.

Question for question. Do you think we are attracting the most qualify and best citizenry to politics now? Would your idea improve that pool, do you think?

How would you feel about term limits for supreme court justices?

Oldnuke, I don’t see a need, but I’m open to the conversation.

Given how minimal it is at present, I don’t think it could decrease. And I don’t believe it would increase.

Flenser, so we both agree it can’t increase. So the only possibility is decrease. The road leads to just more trouble.

Hard to say. At least, I know it would have had some effect. I suppose you could argue that it would not have had the same effect.

That is precisely what I’ll argue. With no accountability, there is not a need even listen to the constituency. ]

We have term limits for President. What do you think of those? Would you argue we should repeal 22nd amendment?

I think it was false-headed, a knee jerk to prevent another FDR. The consequence of which has been an imbalance that allows the last 2 years of each Executive’s term to be accurately labeled ‘lame duck’. Until FDR (or Teddy if you prefer) the precedent was enough.

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 9:34 PM

I have to wonder if Rasmussen didn’t misplace the decimal point. And 0.9% positive approval for these clowns still sounds like an unrealistic inflation that they bribed the pollster to deliver.

snaggletoothie on July 8, 2008 at 9:36 PM

John Derbyshire at National Review had a comment in 2006 that I still remember. He said that in this day and age, the only real power Americans have is to vote incumbents out of office, and the only time we are listened to is when we do. Therefore he was going to vote against every incumbent, no matter the party. Good advice this year, perhaps. It certainly won’t be a problem for me since I have one of the worst Democrat clowns as my congressman.

rockmom on July 8, 2008 at 9:49 PM

Spirit of 1776

Musing here but, supreme court justices make rulings now with impunity. They are not elected, they serve for life and there are never consequences, to themselves, for their decisions. Term limits alone would do nothing to change this. Term limits along with some sort of accountability could possibly tend to reduce the activism in their decision making. However by even introducing accountability into the equation you could subvert one of the desired pillars of checks and balances that were envisioned by the founders. There are no perfect solutions but to put it bluntly I’m sick of Ginsberg, Souter, Kennedy and Stevens.

Oldnuke on July 8, 2008 at 9:51 PM

rockmom on July 8, 2008 at 9:49 PM

I’ve been doing this for every office except President for many years. Started with judges the first time then went all inclusive. It hasn’t seemed to work.:)Maybe if you guys could help??

a capella on July 8, 2008 at 9:57 PM

At least they are ETHICAL. Bwahahahahahahahaha

SouthernGent on July 8, 2008 at 10:16 PM

It’s a strange problem all right, how to get the incumbents out when most people vote for the status quo. If I have a job, and don’t pay much attention to politics, then when I vote, I’ll just vote to keep the current the future.

That’s the real problem with McCain Feingold. You can’t say anything negative about an incumbent for sixty days before the election, which means you can’t say he’s a pork barrel lying ass dog. That would be negative, and we want new civility in our political discourse. Pfui.

The public didn’t want McCain Feingold. In polling less than 20% of the people thought it was important. Yet, cowardly Congressional elected officials voted for it, thinking that the President would veto, and even if he didn’t the Supreme Court would have to overturn it.

The President signed it, claiming that although he thought it was unconstitutional, and wouldn’t hold up to the Court’s review, he was going to sign it.

Nobody who voted for it, or signed it, should be allowed to serve as Dog Catcher much less higher office. Instead of error on the side of Freedom of Speech, we saw the Elected officials pass the buck, and we got shafted. Nobody did the right thing, and everybody hoped someone else would do it. No one did.

Perhaps a new amendment is needed. “If you try and abridge the freedom of speech of the people, you shall be drawn and quartered, disemboweled, hung, and Beheaded before the sun sets that day.”

So the American People have less freedom, who cares, at least we had a Republican Majority in Congress, and a Republican in the White House. Why, what would happen if the Democrats were elected? Oh, they’ll bring back the Fairness Doctrine and Rush Limbaugh will be out of a job.

So the difference is, Republicans passed the incumbent protection act, and Democrats want Rush to shut the hell up.

Great, so the answer is, regarding the first Amendment, none. Second Amendment, one is slightly less confiscatory than the other. Great.

Sorry Captain Ed, I’m afraid I lack the ability that you and so many other cheerleaders here have. I just can’t pretend to really believe that there is much difference between the Evil Democrats, and the slightly less evil Republicans. The fact that we had to send how many hundreds of thousands of bricks to congress to tell them to do the right thing, and we still haven’t won on the issue is telling. None of them give a damn about doing the right thing. Not one of them should be trusted on your local school board much less in a National Office.

Snake307 on July 8, 2008 at 10:18 PM

It’s a strange problem all right, how to get the incumbents out when most people vote for the status quo. If I have a job, and don’t pay much attention to politics, then when I vote, I’ll just vote to keep the current the future.

Snake, I hear you, but these things do happen!

Oldnuke on July 8, 2008 at 9:51 PM

Do you think the problem (activism) is worse at the top or in lower branches of our judicial system?

Spirit of 1776 on July 8, 2008 at 10:28 PM

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