McCain: I’ll balance the budget by cleaning up entitlement programs
posted at 9:29 am on July 7, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
John McCain will send a message to fiscal conservatives this week: he’ll take on entitlement programs in his first term. Pledging to balance the budget in four years, McCain will cut waste and begin overhauling Social Security and Medicare, a bold vision that presents an opportunity and a risk for the Republican. George Bush saw his second term run aground on the shoals of Social Security reform:
McCain is making the pledge at the beginning of a week when both presidential candidates plan to devote their events to the economy, the top issue in poll after poll as voters struggle to keep their jobs and fill their gas tanks. …
McCain’s emphasis on balancing the budget is likely to excite conservatives, who have remained skeptical of his candidacy, and provoke derision from Democrats, who will argue that it’s a warmed-over version of proposals that President Bush failed to enact.
The Democrats shrug off McCain’s pledge as unrealistic. He has a $400 billion gap to close, as the CBO predicts that kind of deficit in 2013 under current budget plans. Can McCain possibly do that with a combination of entitlement reforms and surgical excision of waste? McCain believes he can, and points to the essential problem in a speech he will deliver this morning:
This Congress and this Administration have failed to meet their responsibilities to manage the government. Government has grown by 60 percent in the last eight years. That is simply inexcusable. When I’m president, I will order a stem to stern review of government, modernize how it does business and save billions of dollars. I will veto every single bill with wasteful spending. We aren’t going to continue mortgaging this country’s future for things Americans don’t want or need.
My opponent has a very different record on this issue. He has sought millions upon millions of dollars in earmarks since his election to the Senate. In 2007 alone, Senator Obama requested nearly $100 million for earmark projects. I have never asked for a single earmark in my entire career. He supported the $300 billion pork laden agricultural subsidy bill. I opposed it. He voted for an energy bill stuffed with give-aways to oil companies at a time of record profits. I voted against it.
We grew spending by over 35% from 2000, when we had a $2.0 trillion budget. Some of that went to the war effort, but plenty of it came in other discretionary spending. And, as McCain tells Politico, the real spending problem isn’t in discretionary programs but in entitlements. The explosion of spending threatens to overwhelm the federal budget over the next few decades, but already accounts for 58% of federal spending.
In real terms, we have increased entitlement spending by 759% over the last 43 years. In 2007 dollars, we spent $582 billion in 1965, and in 2007 that has transformed into a $2.5 trillion boondoggle. What’s worse, the rate of increase has speeded up. We have added more than a half-trillion dollars over the last five years. It took 43 years to add a half-trillion 2007 dollars to discretionary spending.
McCain at least puts entitlements on the table as a problem in the bloated federal budget. Barack Obama has only mentioned entitlements in terms of expanding them, adding new taxes as a way to redistribute capital through the federal government. A real agent of change would offer solutions rather than the hair of the dog.
Blowback
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right2bright on July 7, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Which was the party to get it passed?
catmman on July 7, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Well it wasn’t from Juan McBernie that’s for sure as he wants you all to close your nativist eyes to all that and just take another siesta.
MB4 on July 7, 2008 at 4:29 PM
You are still deep in denial. Blacks did not switch to the Democratic party in the sixties, but in the thirties. That is, they were supporting the Democratic Party over the GOP at the exact same time as the Democratic Party was the party of segregation.
But I guess you need to airbrush history for your beliefs to hold together.
flenser on July 7, 2008 at 4:29 PM
Eisenhower
link
right4life on July 7, 2008 at 4:29 PM
In 1957, President Eisenhower sent Congress a proposal for civil rights legislation. The result was the Civil Rights Act of 1957, the first civil rights legislation since Reconstruction. The new act established the Civil Rights Section of the Justice Department and empowered federal prosecutors to obtain court injunctions against interference with the right to vote. It also established a federal Civil Rights Commission with authority to investigate discriminatory conditions and recommend corrective measures. The final act was weakened by Congress due to the lack of support among the Democrats.
right4life on July 7, 2008 at 4:30 PM
From a business site some time ago. It has all sorts of reference links but they won’t post. Maybe HA has some limit on number of links in a comment.
MB4 on July 7, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Oh my. Irony of ironies.
flenser makes arguments, provides facts, uses logic, and calls names. Usually in response to same, or when tiring of evasions and/or disingenuousness.
You merely call names. You have still not made a single substantive contribution to this thread in, what, 15-20 posts? It’s incredibly witty when you Get Your Snark On.
We need Entelechy or baldilocks. You’re giving women a bad name.
misterpeasea on July 7, 2008 at 4:34 PM
Martin Luther King was a registered Republican. And here’s a few more prominent black Republicans. Back in the day, the GOP actually did the right thing – and they were right about blacks. The Democrats enacted segregation laws and are still the inherently worst racists today. You are sadly mistaken if you believe the Democrat propaganda, and in any way confuse the pathetic poverty-mongering “leadership” of racist blacks today with the strength and fortitude of their ancestors.
Racism is not in any way compatible with conservatism. Any conservative worth his salt already knows that. That you DON’T know that is inexcusable.
Redhead Infidel on July 7, 2008 at 4:35 PM
Teddy Kennedy’s MySpace entry -
Hi there fellow bloggers. My name is United States Senator Edward Moore Kennedy from the Great State of Massachusetts. You can call me Ted if you want. I was born on February 22, 1932, although people tell me that I look at least 20 years younger.
I graduated from Harvard in June 1956 in the top 10% of my class. I also passed my law bar on my very first try.
I am one of the most senior members of that grand and much loved and respected institution known as the U.S. Senate. All my colleagues respect me and very often come to me for my wise council and advise. I must admit though that when John and Lindsey ask me to turn around and pull my pants down so that they can kiss my ass it does get a little much, but it’s gratifying anyway!
In fact I am so powerful now that I am, in many ways the defacto President of the United States. How’s that for a boy who had to work his way through college?
I am handsome and tall with a muscular build. The ladies just can’t get enough of me. Sometimes I think it is almost a curse.
I sometimes like to chill out after a long day of serving the American people by having a double martini. Contrary to what some of my very few enemies say I never have more than one drink at a time. Well sometimes one for each hand, but that’s it, never two glasses in each hand, except on special occasions like the arrival of 7PM.
I am a lot of fun after work. I am an excellent driver and sometimes I like to go on long drives and see how many bridges I can cross without getting wet. It’s a lot of fun! All the women tell me that I am just too much!
I would like to think that I am open minded, honest, polite, and trustworthy. And I appreciate the same qualities in others.
Who I’d like to meet:
…other progressive bloggers. People who like to rock out. Cool people who live close to Washington D.C. so that we can get together, take all our clothes off, paint 666 on ourselves, and run around stark naked and have a whole lot of fun.
MB4 on July 7, 2008 at 4:37 PM
Let’s try this:
Will balancing the budget by cleaning up entitlement programs work if coupled with new governmental regulation for carbon emissions and instituting cap and trade on the public and private sectors?
Follow-up: Would adding another level of government to regulate the new environmental initiatives/cap and trade be considered big government or small government?
catmman on July 7, 2008 at 4:39 PM
right2bright, this claim has been responded to in some detail by me and others. Do you plan on responding to the responses?
flenser on July 7, 2008 at 4:39 PM
I don’t think that any answer will be forthcoming.
flenser on July 7, 2008 at 4:40 PM
It looks strangely familiar to an anti-mccain website I had visited last week, almost to the word. Some the the numbers were different, but the verbiage was almost identical.
right2bright on July 7, 2008 at 4:41 PM
No you were not posting to me; rather I was posting to you. I prefer for unstable McVainites not live near me as it is annoying enough to deal with you on this board, but hey it is America and Free Political Speech is cool by me. I just don’t want to be anywhere physically near ya, if you know what I mean.
BTW, if “it” is something YOU are “in” then I’ll forgo the “pleasure” of your company.
Branch Rickey on July 7, 2008 at 4:42 PM
I have responded to most everything aimed at me, I doubt if there has been anyone with more responses.
Care to elaborate, or are you still just taking pot shots.
right2bright on July 7, 2008 at 4:43 PM
catmman, excellent questions. But no McCain supporter will answer them. They can’t.
Redhead Infidel on July 7, 2008 at 4:43 PM
George Bush saw his second term run aground on the shoals of Social Security reform:
That is so over the top. G Bush’s second term ran agound over a number of issues. Including his handeling of the Iraq war. He did not start the surge until 2007. From 2004 till 2006 the Iraq war got worse and worse. His failure on quickly winning the war was alot more damaging than SS reform. The election of 2006, run away spending, dubai ports, Myers nominate even the AG battle, Katrina clean up, Browne of FEMa all got more play than SS reform with the people.
unseen on July 7, 2008 at 4:44 PM
I am a chick and disavow Gilda!
Branch Rickey on July 7, 2008 at 4:46 PM
Can I get an AMEN!
Branch Rickey on July 7, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Holy Cow! ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!
Branch Rickey on July 7, 2008 at 4:48 PM
I meant, respond with facts. I linked to the CFG web site showing that McCain scored worse than Trent Lott. I linked to a list of all legislation McCain has sponsored. Not much fiscal conservative stuff there, but a fair bit of what looks like pork.
I was wondering what you response was.
I also asked if any McCain supporter would be providing a list of all the conservative legislation he has introduced during his 20+ years in the Senate. That question is also still out there.
flenser on July 7, 2008 at 4:48 PM
Me too.
And Branch Rickey, excellent – are you another woman who loves baseball as much as I do?!
Redhead Infidel on July 7, 2008 at 4:50 PM
Exactly, and to answer the other question of what party was eventually responsible for passing it, the Republicans.
Eisenhower also is the one that sent the guard down to Alambama to integrate the schools, against the demands of the Democrats.
Every “black history book” should have Eisenhower as the man who stepped out and risked his political career to back a belief he so strongly held.
And imagine, this from a “military” guy. It shows that the military men have a keen sense of right and wrong, they are put into so many situations of personal situations…often with life and death being the result of decisions.
right2bright on July 7, 2008 at 4:51 PM
right2bright is to John mcCain as High Hewitt was to Mitt Romney.
Yes, we all recall John Kerry’s keen sense of right and wrong. And Jimmy Carters. And George McGoverns.
flenser on July 7, 2008 at 4:54 PM
Heck yeah! Love your sign in name too. I love the Brooklyn Dodgers, the Atlanta Braves and the St. Louis Cardinals. Especially Ebbets Field and the legends who played there like Mr. Jack Robinson, Mr. Roy Campanella, Mr. Pee Wee Reese.
Who is your team? Do you like football too? Can’t get enough sports and politics….
Branch Rickey on July 7, 2008 at 4:57 PM
When I see McCain, all I see is amnesty for the glut of immigration cheaters and thieves.
Obama said his grandfather once told him that Americans can do anything if they put their mind to it. How about putting our mind to running out all the illegal immigrant criminals that lied, cheated, and stole to get here and stay.
McCain wants amnesty, so McCain is a poor choice for President because he will sell us out to the cheating illegal immigrants instead of defending the USA from the lying, cheating, and theiving illegal immigrant peril.
Obama is a meathead, and McCain is a fool. What a country.
saiga on July 7, 2008 at 4:58 PM
Okay, okay I will respond to the post you quoted:
I think that you MDS guys have a good case on the borders.
Although this gives some hope.
It certainly separates him from Barack. And it is stated in Mexico, not some backyard bbq.
I would like him to dump Juan Hernandez. So you MDS guys and gals have a strong argument against McCain, however, next to Barack, he is a hardliner on border security.
right2bright on July 7, 2008 at 4:59 PM
You are deranged if you are even in the slightest way comparing Gen. Eisenhower’s stand for long overdue rights for blacks with McShamnesty’s pandering to the hispanic vote. Period.
I thank Mr. McCain for his service and his character during his time as a P.O.W.
Branch Rickey on July 7, 2008 at 5:01 PM
flenser:
And who much conservative legislation has Obama offered up in recent years? That was easy: zip, zero, zilch and still the cry baby sore loser contingent is ready to sit back and let him win.
Go figure.
And you were wrong about the black vote. Eisenhower got 44% of the black vote. The Republicans in Congress did help pass the civil rights legislation of the 60′s. But Barry Goldwater made a point of opposing it. Add to that the fact that the Republicans openly welcomed all those Dixiecrats into the party and the damage was done.
Terrye on July 7, 2008 at 5:06 PM
Thanks, but we already know that. What we were wondering was whether you McCainuts would ever back up your claims that McCain is King of the fiscal conservatives.
That is the question that has been put to you repeatedly in different forms by different people on all five pages of comments here, and which you have somehow managed to ignore. And are still ignoring.
flenser on July 7, 2008 at 5:06 PM
BR, Ill watch any baseball game on TV – but I especially LOVE college ball. Love. It.
If I had to pick a few pro teams, I guess I’d say I’m a hometown Brewers fan for nostalgia’s sake – that’s where my alma mater is and I spent plenty of college afternoons drinking warm beer in bleacher seats at Brewer Stadium.
A friend of mine is a pitching coach in the Cardinals organization so I like to catch their games if possible, just to see his handiwork.
But now my hometown is Houston, so I root for my can’t-seem-to-get-it-together Astros. Love Hunter Pence for his short pants and all his gangly eagerness and wide-eyed power.
I love the legends. I read as much as I can about them. I don’t like pro ballplayers that are sloppy or thuggish – I don’t care how amazing their bat is!!
I do watch football and rugby. Prefer rugby, I have to say (Scotland and New Zealand). But I love to watch the Packers.
Redhead Infidel on July 7, 2008 at 5:07 PM
The truth is there are far right people who really do not care about winning the election. They would rather see someone nominted {like say Ron Paul or Tom Tancredo} who have absolutely no hope of winning than they would support someone who they deem to be unworthy. The Democrats will be forever beholden to them.
Terrye on July 7, 2008 at 5:08 PM
I asked for your response to the responses. You even quoted me asking you that. I don’t see why you responded instead to your own remarks.
flenser on July 7, 2008 at 5:09 PM
The truth is that for a life-long Democrat like Terrye, everone to the right of Lincoln Chafee is “far right”.
flenser on July 7, 2008 at 5:10 PM
I don’t mind being ignored.
It has allowed me to perfect the “perfect” Colada recipe.
I can’t just drink Irish whiskey for a buzz. That stuff aint cheap.
Rum on the other hand…
catmman on July 7, 2008 at 5:11 PM
when was McCain a fiscal conservative? He did not support any expansion of medicare. He did not support the recent farm bill and initially he said he would not support tax cuts unless there were cuts in spending. He has never added on an earmark in his career.
Now, Obama on the other hand thinks government is too small and taxes are too low and yet the MDS crowd is obviously fine with that.
Terrye on July 7, 2008 at 5:12 PM
Ooh. Very, very wrong. Far be it from me to defend Republicans, but this is too wrong to pass up.
Redhead Infidel on July 7, 2008 at 5:12 PM
You must be new…you have to be reasonably new to post such a thing.
Replace McCain with Romney (who I did attack) as the candidate and you would think I was Hugh Hewitt. I know the candidates strengths and there weaknesses. And like any good campaigner, I concentrate on their strengths, why give the enemy any ammunition?
It befuddles me, you don’t think the other side doesn’t read this blog, especially this blog?
Whatever feelings I have for our (Republican) candidate is not nearly the hatred (in the generic sense, not towards individuals) I have for the Dems. I can hardly come up with any good the “modern” dems have created. They took a strong party, the original Democratic party, and turned it into a cesspool of morality, financial chaos, destroyed our education, destroyed minorities ability to achieve, and stole our money.
So why would I give any quarter to any opposing candidate, why would I not hold my candidate up as being superior in every way. When my goal is to defeat the Democrats. I laugh, and shake my head at the fools who actually think McCain is a liberal democrat, liberal Republican probably, but hardly a liberal democrat. It only shows me that people like that are very ill read, very unsophisticated in their thinking, very naive in their understanding of what the liberal democrat agenda is.
So my support for our candidate runs much deeper then McCain, or Romney, or Fred, or whomever. They are the vehicle to keep Obama out, to help keep the liberal dems from totally dominating all areas of the government; congress, judicial, executive. The congress I am afraid we have lost, and without the executive we will lose the judicial.
Look back you little newbies, I attacked them all during the primary process, and I always stated, the one chosen will be my choice also.
Besides, it is fun to read the deranged paranoia of the McCain haters. It is worth just posting to view the strange arguments, where they are drawn from (KOS, Huffpo, MoveOn), yes most of your arguments can be found there also, they are the same.
right2bright on July 7, 2008 at 5:21 PM
McCain’s fighting an uphill battle on this front. Sad.
VolMagic on July 7, 2008 at 5:26 PM
right2bright on July 7, 2008 at 4:51 PM
And you, my little babbling babe, are deranged if you think my (previous, not the one you are referring to) post was anything but my thoughts on not being hasty about running away from the Hispanic vote, but trying to find a way to appease, without offending.
What I was showing in the post that you reference is is that counter to many people, a military man is often more tuned into what the common man needs, then most politicians.
Man, take a seventh inning break, you sure read a lot into that post that wasn’t there.
And who the hell are the Brooklyn Dodgers? Didn’t they run off in the middle of the night to the West Coast?
right2bright on July 7, 2008 at 5:29 PM
Once again, you fail to see the point: that there are sane, responsible answers here and no one in our government cares enough about US to employ them. It was just a light-hearted musing about a situation over which I don’t have much control. You are reading way too much into it, and to insinuate that I am childish because of it says more about you than it does about me.
LickyLicky on July 7, 2008 at 5:29 PM
The “other side” to me means liberals. To you it means Democrats. There is no shortage of liberals reading here, and many of them are rooting for McCain.
You managed a very long response there. How come you still cannot respond to the questions regarding McCains fiscal conservative shortcomings?
If Bill Clinton had run in the Democratic primary back in 1992 on the issues McCain is campaiging on today, he’d have been considered too radical a left-winger for the Dems to nominate. Amnesty? Anti-free speech? Global warming? Windfall profit taxes? Far too radical a left wing agenda.
flenser on July 7, 2008 at 5:30 PM
Amen…
right2bright on July 7, 2008 at 5:31 PM
And that is why you’re a Republican first and a conservative second. You may have very good reasons for being this way, but not everyone will put party before principles. And before the inevitable “Obama is soooooo muc worse than McCain” gets throw my way, well, sometimes you have to suffer for your principles.
VolMagic on July 7, 2008 at 5:31 PM
I don’t want to come off snarky, I’m just saying that when the likes of “obsecen profts” McCain is the nominal conservative in the race, it makes one re-think the state of our nation. We have fought two fratricidial wars to shape/re-shape our nation. I don’t think a war is necessary, but something drastic has to happen to get us back on the right path.
VolMagic on July 7, 2008 at 5:34 PM
VolMagic:
Principles my behind. Anyone who calls himself or herself a conservative and somehow manages to just sit back and let a socialist like Obama win, is a hypocrite or a fool. Principle has nothing to do with it.
And it is not pandering to talk to hispanic voters. Believe it or not we have hispanic citizens in this country who pay taxes and serve in the military. They are not second class citizens.
But to some on the right anything short of alienating an entire demographic is pandering.
it is just absurd. Not to mention self righteous, sanctimonious and arrogant.
Terrye on July 7, 2008 at 5:36 PM
that is just a flat out stupid generalization. just to name 3 of the top of my head, murtha, kerry, clark.
chasdal on July 7, 2008 at 5:36 PM
Please link to me where people at Los, MoveOn, etc are attacking McCain for being a left wing shill. I’d love to see that.
Oh, wait, you were lying again.
As for “deranged paranoia” and “strange arguments”, you have a warped outlook on the world is that is how you view people who examine a politicians voting record.
The real Kos-analogue here is you – just as there is nothing which Obama can do to dissuade them from his cause, so no mere fact or logic can alter your devotion to John McCain. Like them, you checked your brain at the door when you got interested in politics.
flenser on July 7, 2008 at 5:38 PM
O/T for RedHeadInfidel
Branch Rickey on July 7, 2008 at 5:39 PM
McCain is fighting a downhill battle in his efforts to transform America into a Latin American style kleptocracy.
flenser on July 7, 2008 at 5:40 PM
Terrye on July 7, 2008 at 5:36 PM
chasdal on July 7, 2008 at 5:40 PM
right2bright on July 7, 2008 at 5:21 PM
I can’t say I disagree with you generaly, but this thread was supposed to be about McCain’s economic plan, not Obama.
I know, I know. Things do tend to go downhill.
I also can’t say that everyone who is a conservative. But most who are here who dislike McCain (myself) included feel the way we do for valid reasons.
I could use the same arguments about you you use against those MDS’ers as you call them. Are there some? Yes. Am I one? No.
I have asked repeatedly about cap and trade and McCains environmental policies and how I see them as contradictory to his economic policies. I haven’t engaged in name-calling or anything else, but have waited patiently for an answer from anyone on your side of the argument. Up until this point it’s been crickets.
One thing I find funny is how you say what you do to wholeheartedly support McCain, but denigrate those who do the same against McCain. That thinking is hardly conservative. It is a liberal deflection.
I have waited in good faith for anyone to chime in, the silence speaks volumes. I understand the hesitation, you don’t want to admit McCains weaknesses. But to attribute anything we say in this forum as tipping our hands to the libs is another deflection. McCains weakneses are well known. He isn’t attacked as much on the substance of his policies because in a large portion of them, he isn’t too far off the left. that’s not a swipe or an attack – it’s fact.
So they attack his age, his temper, his physical stature, his time as a POW. They don’t really attack him much on immigration, environment, judges, big business to name a few since he, well as I explained above.
Is cap and trade a tax? A simple question anyone on the pro-McCain side has yet to answer. Because you know it is – and it would be the largest tax imposed by government ever. So you ignore it. Is that conservative?
I am perfectly cognizant of the liberal agenda for this country as are a majority of us on the right. And up until the latest SCOTUS rulings, I was completely in the “We’re Screwed ’08″ camp. I am still evaluating things about McCain – every day.
Don’t presume that since I have fundamental disagreements with the guy and don’t explicitly trust his rhetoric, that I want to hand the country over to Obambi – I don’t. But that isn’t the argument.
Some valid questions have been raised in this thread other than mine and I have yet to see an answer to the specifics.
catmman on July 7, 2008 at 5:40 PM
So what have conservatives done to make people want to support them? If they consider McCain a liberal and no different from Obama, does that mean that to be a real conservative means that someone has to support a fringe candidate with an agenda that is only supported by a marginal number of people? And if that is true, why should either political party care what they think?
In other words some people on the far right fringes insist they are conservatives and anyone who does not see things there way is a liberal. I just don’t think that is true. and if it is, then they need to be convincing other people that they know a better way to do things, not attacking everyone else and treating them like apostates.
Terrye on July 7, 2008 at 5:40 PM
How is expecting illegal aliens to leave the country “alienating an entire demographic”?
flenser on July 7, 2008 at 5:41 PM
You are full or truth and do it with so much humor. I bow to you! If Terrye (Omamarific) and the other McVainobots (right2beanidiotorwhatever) keep getting annoyed by you the happier I am. Thank you.
Branch Rickey on July 7, 2008 at 5:43 PM
over 450 post. terrye and right2bright sure are earning a ton of mccain points. keep up the good work guys!!
chasdal on July 7, 2008 at 5:46 PM
You were the one who cited the movie “Dave” has “common sense” approaches to sort out complex issues facing our government. You lost credibility right there. I was making fun of your argument.
Log off and read a book. Just a humble suggestion.
Branch Rickey on July 7, 2008 at 5:46 PM
Right. Only a far right-wing nut-case like Barbara Jordan would say stuff like ““It is both a right and a responsibility of a democratic society to manage immigration so that it serves the national interest.”
And who but a right-wing extremist would object to the insanely expensive boondoggle that is cap-and-trade?
And only those right-wing cranks could object if McCain wants to curtail free speech, or wants to impose windfall profit taxes on those evil corporations.
Yup, we’re all communists now.
flenser on July 7, 2008 at 5:47 PM
You see we both disagree about what is principles (and that’s okay).
I am not giving up my principles, the man I select votes for himself, I understand that. I still am responsible and live out my principles separate from him/her. But once a choice has been made, then I have no problem pushing whatever agenda I can.
I think giving into a person with less principles, or one that could do more harm is worse. You think of it as right and wrong, but in politics it is not alway that black and white. That is why a religious leader can’t be a politician, the two “principles” don’t mix.
Neither one of these two candidates are thinking they are dong harm, both I feel think what they are doing is right for America. Is drilling a “right principle” or a “wrong principle”, neither, it either is a good (but not moral good or bad) policy for one group or a bad policy for another.
If a cashier gives me to much change, do I return it or not, now that is principle (moral).
I think my conservative values are best protected by the Republican candidate, then the Dem. So I would say I am a conservative first, using the Republican as the shield or barrier.
You think that you are going to find a “conservative” candidate, you won’t, he/she doesn’t exist; only in your imagination.
And you seldom suffer for the right principles, you may sacrifice, but you gain so much more.
right2bright on July 7, 2008 at 5:47 PM
Terrye on July 7, 2008 at 5:36 PM
Show me where in my post I bring up anything that you assigned to me.
I won’t respond to your race-baiting bits, but this:
is worthy of reply.
Obama scares me very much. Much and more bad things can/will happen if he is elected, especially with the Conrgess going blue and several Justices waiting for a Dem in office to retire. Obama is, in fact, the very best argument for voting McCain.
In the end, I will probably vote McCain. But I will not cheerlead for him. I will not call him a conservative. I will not entusiastically back any of his proposals I disagree with. I will not give him my money. I won’t forget or forgive his attempts to cede our sovreignity. I will not excuse his insanity on AGW hysteria. I will not ignore who he keeps cloes to him, nor who he spurns. I will not pretend that he will be a great President. And I will not concede that he has my best interest at heart.
Sure, he is right on more things than Obama is, but if we have survived Wilson, FDR, Carter, and Clinton, we can survive Obama. And nothing makes a populace wake up quicker then imminent disaster.
VolMagic on July 7, 2008 at 5:48 PM
Hey BR, this is OT for you: “I bleed Dodger blue and when I die, I’m going to the big Dodger in the sky.” – Tommy Lasorda
:)
Redhead Infidel on July 7, 2008 at 5:48 PM
Were you serious or were you satirizing yourself. You might consider seeing a shrink for that hate issue you harbor.
Branch Rickey on July 7, 2008 at 5:51 PM
Well said, VolMagic.
Those sound suspiciously like principles, and Terrye’s not too keen on anyone having principles other than her own. So yours don’t count. And you still suffer from raging MDS (or so you’ll be told).
Redhead Infidel on July 7, 2008 at 5:53 PM
o/t
Hey Redhead, I will proudly be there with you and Jackie, and Campy and Pee Wee and of course, Sir Tommy! :)
Branch Rickey on July 7, 2008 at 5:53 PM
I guess it’s pretty clear at this point that right2bright has no intention of trying to back up the extravagant claims she made for McCains fiscal conservative credentials at the beginning of this thread.
flenser on July 7, 2008 at 5:54 PM
Hey. I was gonna say that.
JiangxiDad on July 7, 2008 at 5:55 PM
As I said, you do have very good reasons for activly supporting McCain. I undersatnd your reasoning, and do not find fault in it.
As I said in my responde to T, I will probably end up voting for McCain, but I will not support him financially or in public. He has shown himself to be derisive of my views, hasn’t asked me for my vote, and is more interested in getting the swing votes/moderate democrat votes then mine.
If he wanted my support, he wouldn’t have behaved as he has.
And if I decide not to vote, and Obama wins by 1 vote in my state, I won’t feel but so bad. Plus, the beauty of America, we will have a chance to throw him out in 4 years. And that election, should it come to pass, will almost surely be a landslide.
VolMagic on July 7, 2008 at 5:57 PM
Redhead:
Who says I am not keen on other people having principles?
The truth is that the only people someone like flenser would find acceptable can not possibly win the primary much less a general election. That is just a fact.
And I am tired of people treating McCain supporters like traitors to the cause because we are actually going to root for the Republican.
And I am not race baiting. The truth is McCain can not talk to a group of hispanics without certain people going off the deep end. It is just ridiculous.
Terrye on July 7, 2008 at 5:57 PM
$5 to anyone who can make any sense whatsoever of this McCain Sycophant?
Branch Rickey on July 7, 2008 at 5:59 PM
And the idea that we would invite disaster on our country in the hopes that maybe the right sort of person would win the next time is also ridiculous. Could we survive an Obama? Well we could probably survive a lot of things, like maybe a small nuclear device in an urban area..but that does not mean I would sit back and let it happen.
I can remember back in 2006 hardliners swearing that if we lost in 2006, people would be flocking back to the Republicans in 2008. How did that work out?
Terrye on July 7, 2008 at 6:01 PM
newbie? been CLOSELY following American Political Thought and process for almost 35 years old so keep your teenie weenie (and I mean weenie) projections of others political acumen to yourself.
Branch Rickey on July 7, 2008 at 6:02 PM
Why, nobody. As long as they share your own left-wing principles you are quite happy for people to be principled.
I voted for Romney in the primaries. But don’t let the silly facts get in the way of your deeply ingrained liberal bigotry. You’ve spent you entire life railing agsinst the evil “right wingers” and that’s not going to change just because you’re now one of them. In fact that’s a reason for you to crank up your abuse, just to show yourself that you’re still the pure person you were while voting straight-ticket Dem.
flenser on July 7, 2008 at 6:03 PM
VolMagic on July 7, 2008 at 5:57 PM
You just need to stop right there pardner!
No, wait…keep going!
catmman on July 7, 2008 at 6:03 PM
and your lying continues!! its not just talking to a hispanic group, its that he will continue to push an amnesty that no right thinking American wants. as for principles, you obviously have none. you will lie and quibble all day long to get your mccain points.
chasdal on July 7, 2008 at 6:05 PM
flenser:
Oh please. I do not want to hear some nonsense about immigration. Like you care.
Anyone who would give the Democrats the White House and a super majority is not serious about this issue. And why are you willing to do this? Well, because McCain actually worked with Ted Kennedy on an immigration bill.
The sheer silliness of letting Democrats win because the Republican nominee actually worked on a compromise bill with Democrats is so obvious anyone who is not a fanatic could see it. Just think if the right sits home and sulks this November the Democrats won’t need a compromise.
Terrye on July 7, 2008 at 6:09 PM
Flenser can defend himself I know. But I would like to point out that his views on what constitute and don’t constitute conservatism are very interesting, and often unique here. He’s right. Lots of people here are libertarians, or hold some conservative and some liberal values, or are even liberals who feel their party is just too wacko at the moment. He has a lot to offer about what conservatism has to say about any particular issue. That said, like the rest of us, he will have to weigh the dangers of Obama.
Almost everyone at HA will end up voting for McCain. Nothing wrong with making the guy ask for our votes, and possibly something wrong with just giving them to him–especially if you consider yourself a conservative, and not just anti-Obama.
After McCain-Kennedy, McCain has little or no credibility on this issue. His Hispanic outreach guy is unacceptable to many people (forgot his name.) Some topics McCain is credible on (defense, abortion), and some not.
JiangxiDad on July 7, 2008 at 6:09 PM
And Goldwater was not elected either.
Johan Klaus on July 7, 2008 at 6:10 PM
chasdal:
And I am sure that Obama appreciates your support too.
Terrye on July 7, 2008 at 6:10 PM
And how does that make you not a hack?
Branch Rickey on July 7, 2008 at 6:10 PM
You sure do have a lot of suggestions for people, considering that you are making judgements based on a few words. I know what my point was, and I’m sure, deep down, you do, too. You’ll never admit it at this point, no matter how much you understand what I meant. You put your foot in it, but instead of washing it off, you want to go around blaming everyone else for the foulness. I’ll leave you to your petty, small-minded self; I didn’t come here for you or your ilk.
LickyLicky on July 7, 2008 at 6:12 PM
I was hesitate on responding to you, you had a difficult time understanding the simple statement that Dems did not really support the black movement, you read the opposite.
I appreciate not calling me names, although calling it a liberal deflection is about the same, clever, but foolish. I attack when I am attacked, you are the only one that started off a thread that did not have a “name calling” in the first sentence.
I denigrate the people who personally attack me. These are the same people who face to face would be a mouse in the corner, but behind a keyboard they become brave.
No (I am assuming you mean cap and trade for CO2 not SO2, right?), it is not a tax, it may be a standard that is difficult to achieve, and frankly the NYT does call it a tax. When we placed standards for emissions from autos, was that a tax? Has that helped (ask anyone who had lived in Ca pre emission standards, they will say yes)? Would you like to remove the “emission” tax and go back to the 1960′s?
Cap and trade was extremely effective in SO2 removal, and I doubt anyone would want to not have implemented that scheme. However that was fought by many conservatives. I just don’t know what the impact of Cap and Trade is, where is has been used it has been a great asset.
What is the financial impact, I have not seen any responsible report on that. Go to any anti-mcCain and you will find some figures, what a surprise.
right2bright on July 7, 2008 at 6:12 PM
Johan:
I know,but Goldwater’s position hurt Republicans with blacks. That was a shame because the Congressional Republicans did vote for the legislation.
Terrye on July 7, 2008 at 6:12 PM
Terrye. The illegal problem affects people differently depending upon where they live. For some people, their quality of life have been ruined, some move, some see their hospitals close down, taxes go through the roof, etc.
Where you are, I believe it’s a non-issue. You’re never going to get people to vote for McCain by minimizing the negative effects of illegal immigration.
JiangxiDad on July 7, 2008 at 6:13 PM
Yes, you are. And La Raza is not just “a group of hispanics.” I’ve touched on this before in other threads, so do your own research.
Were you alive during the Carter years? And, by the way, as much as I despise Obama’s politics and the very real dangers his election poses, I would never compare them to a nuke strike on one of our cities. Get some perspective.
Well, was I one of them? If not, why did you bring this up?
VolMagic on July 7, 2008 at 6:14 PM
JiangX:
Who says McCain does not have credibility on this issue? The people who swore that running hardliners in 2006 would work for them when in fact it did the opposite?
Terrye on July 7, 2008 at 6:15 PM
Terrye on July 7, 2008 at 5:57 PM
I’m sorry, McCain talking to the racist La Raza SHOULD have people going off the deep end.
catmman on July 7, 2008 at 6:15 PM
as usual instead of addressing issues terrye just trys to brand someone an obama supporter. its mccain people like you that make me hope more and more he loses. and of the by product that after 4 years of obama people will remember why the voted for conservatives. and maybe republicans will start acting right again.
chasdal on July 7, 2008 at 6:16 PM
Vol Magic:
Are you the only person on here? I said I remember people saying that. I did not say you said it.
Terrye on July 7, 2008 at 6:16 PM
I cannot even understand your teensy, tiny little thoughts nor do I care.
Branch Rickey on July 7, 2008 at 6:19 PM
I don’t get this. A cap on SO2 emissions is not the same as cap and trade.
One reduces emissions. The other doesn’t, but sends money from one “offender” to someone who offends less. It’s a wealth transfer system from preferred industries/goups/people/nations to less preferred– the preference determined by bureaucrats.
It’s an abomination, and no less than McCain’s economic advisor Steve Forbes agrees.
JiangxiDad on July 7, 2008 at 6:19 PM
it wasnt “hardliners” that lost the 2006 elections. it was scandals and out of control spending, the voters felt the GOP had abandoned conservative values. those values always win when they are explained properly to the electorate.
i think you really are a lefty, more liberal than the old rockefeller republicans. from your posts its obvious you have no idea of what conservatism is. and you certainly dont understand principles or standing on them.
chasdal on July 7, 2008 at 6:20 PM
More names, you are a boring babbling babe. Tell me how throwing out denigrating names is not being a hack? You are what they call a “drive by”, you just drive along, throw a bomb, then hope you get a few posts.
You have just said, by your argument, that you have a problem pushing your agenda? What an interesting political person you are, one without an agenda to push. So you just cruise the polical blogs and post remarks with no substance. Hey, whatever keeps you busy…
right2bright on July 7, 2008 at 6:20 PM
Why, you. Often. Most recently: “Principles, my behind!” Flenser has deep-seated principles – based on hard evidence and fact – but because they don’t match yours, you dismiss them as hypocritical and foolish. That only leaves one conclusion: your principles are the only acceptable principles.
BTW, you do realize you were dead wrong about the Dixiecrats, no?
Redhead Infidel on July 7, 2008 at 6:20 PM
chasdal:
As usual you can not count.
There will be an election this fall.
There will be two choices. {Unless you actually count Barr and Nadar as choices}. McCain {R} and Obama {D}. It is unlikely there will be a do over.
So the actual effects of trashing the Republican candidate and hoping he gets beat and refusing to support him and getting snotty with the people who do…is to benefit the Democrat. In real life that is the truth of it.
Terrye on July 7, 2008 at 6:20 PM
I doubt it.
AbaddonsReign on July 7, 2008 at 6:22 PM
If by “running hardliners” you mean letting the incumbents try to keep their seats, then I guess you have a point. Funny though, I recall that most of the seats lost by incumbents were won by more or less conservative Deomcrats.
So sorry. I read most of those two posts as directed at me, as they dealt with issues I had brought up.
VolMagic on July 7, 2008 at 6:23 PM
Achtung! No more exhaling unless you want to pay r2unbright a
carbon taxplenary indulgence…..Branch Rickey on July 7, 2008 at 6:23 PM
I know, let’s pretend this is a political blog, and you start posting something political. That way you don’t have to waste our time taking personal shots at someone you know nothing about.
And we can find out if you really have a thought in your head, or you just like to do “drive-by’s”…Okay?
right2bright on July 7, 2008 at 6:24 PM
Redhead:
Yeah right. flenser called me a typical leftist. After all I can just disagree with him, I have to be a commie. A commie who votes a straight Republican ticket no less.
The truth is some of the MDS crowd can dish it out, but they can’t take it.
Terrye on July 7, 2008 at 6:24 PM
OMG, I am soooooo crushed. LICKYLICKY no like my ilk. Whatever.
Branch Rickey on July 7, 2008 at 6:24 PM
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