British students get detention for refusing to pray to Allah in religious ed class
posted at 3:00 pm on July 5, 2008 by Allahpundit
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There’s something soooo familiar about this.
Two schoolboys were given detention after refusing to kneel down and ‘pray to Allah’ during a religious education lesson…
Parents said that their children were made to bend down on their knees on prayer mats which the RE teacher had got out of her cupboard and they were also told to wear Islamic headgear during the lesson on Tuesday afternoon…
A statement from Cheshire County Council on behalf of the school read: “The headteacher David Black contacted this authority immediately complaints were received…
“Educating children in the beliefs of different faith is part of the diversity curriculum on the basis that knowledge is essential to understanding.
These stories pop up every six months or so and without fail everyone wets their pants without the salient question being asked: Is the school doing this for other religions too? Even a soulless atheist like me has no problem with role-playing — minus compulsory prayer, thanks — so long as it’s being used for instruction, not indoctrination. If all major faiths get the same treatment, odds are it’s the former. If not, then … there’s not much “multi” in this little multiculturalist experiment, is there? The Mail doesn’t say one way or another, but judging from the reactions of the parents I’m guessing that in this case Diversity Street only runs one way. Exit quotation: “[I]f Muslims were asked to go to church on Sunday and take Holy Communion there would be war.”
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Is it the difference between allowing bible study classes or Prayer in private vs Schools punishing students for not recognizing allah ?
I have no problem with religeon in school as long as its neither required classes or compusory.
That said private schools with religeous backgrounds should be allowed to do these types of things. They should also be voluntary to go to using free choice.
William Amos on July 5, 2008 at 3:03 PM
I wonder, why is it that only one side believe the crusades to be over…
Viper1 on July 5, 2008 at 3:07 PM
Death of the western world…
DwnSouthJukin on July 5, 2008 at 3:07 PM
Role playing has no place even if it was a comparative religions class. Role playing might be cute, but once you’ve recited the Shahada, you’re done, you ARE a Muslim, and there would be plenty of witnesses available to testify to that in good old Britain these days, so it’d be official and public too.
How many other religions can you accidentally join while being jerked around by a multi-culti moron?
Maquis on July 5, 2008 at 3:08 PM
Makes me think of a song by Sepultura…..Refuse Resist.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 5, 2008 at 3:09 PM
Good for the two kids that took a stand on principle.
RightOFLeft on July 5, 2008 at 3:11 PM
I am OUTRAGED. Waiting for capitulation….
Les in NC on July 5, 2008 at 3:14 PM
I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ’s heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it is meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it.
- Pope Urban II
MB4 on July 5, 2008 at 3:15 PM
I really admire those kids - a LOT. They’ve got more intestinal fortitude than 99% of the adults in Britain. And kudos to their parents. They obviously come from good stock.
Redhead Infidel on July 5, 2008 at 3:15 PM
The teaching of religion or about religion, any religion, has no place in a public school system, period. But in an era when the West is at war with jihadists inspired by Islam, it’s particularly grotesque.
JDPerren on July 5, 2008 at 3:23 PM
Allah hates you this I know
For the Koran tells me so
Infidels Christians and Jews we make to bend down
They are weak but we are strong
Yes Allah hates you! Yes, Allah hates you! Yes, Allah hates you,
The Koran tells me so
Allah hates you, you must submit
Or the teacher will you with detention hit
Say the salat, bend down your dhimmi head,
Eat falafel, go to bed.
Yes, Allah hates you! Yes, Allah hates you! Yes, Allah hates you!
The Koran tells me so
Aleph on July 5, 2008 at 3:24 PM
Uhhhhh… this teacher is SOOOO clueless…
By making a prayer to Allah, and saying Moh is his Prophet, you are, under Sharia law, converting to Islam.,
As appostacy equals death under Sharia, this is REALLY stupid.
Romeo13 on July 5, 2008 at 3:35 PM
This is a spicy serving of succulent steak tartare.
Zorro on July 5, 2008 at 3:36 PM
I would not want a non-believer to take Communion. That would be sacrilege, whether you believed in transubstantiation or not.
When WaPo columnist Sally Quinn, an agnostic, took Communion at Tim Russert’s funeral, she said it was to get closer to Tim. She had no idea it was a public act of communing/agreeing with the tenets of the Christian faith.
Wethal on July 5, 2008 at 3:37 PM
Someone has to face the valley
Rush in! We have to rally and win boys
When the world is saying not to
By God, you know you’ve got to march on, boys
Never hold back your step for a moment
Look alive! Oh, your courage will grow
Yes, it’s higher and higher and into the fire we go
Into fire!
Let the lightning strike
Let the flash of it shock you
Choke your fears away
Pull as tight as a wire
Let the fever strike
Let the force of it rock you
We will have our day, sailing into the fire
Onward, ho!
Percy on July 5, 2008 at 3:37 PM
If they really wanted to teach kids about Islam they would have shown them some beheading videos, stoning for perceived crimes and some videos from the soccer stadiums in Afghanistan from “the good old days”.
Guardian on July 5, 2008 at 3:43 PM
Even a soulless atheist like me has no problem with role-playing
Forcing someone to pray to a god they do not believe in is not simple “role playing.” Role playing is pretending to be a banker, a car salesman, leader of a country. It is not what is described in the story above.
JellyToast on July 5, 2008 at 3:45 PM
I’m curious if the kids names were Shadrach, Meshach or Abednego. (Bible story here; Louis Armstrong’s version here.)
Exurban Jon on July 5, 2008 at 3:47 PM
What bugs me is that when these kids are indoctrinated, they are always indoctrinated with the extreme, arabic form of the religion, the one that hangs gays. Why don’t we try indoctrinating everybody, radical Paki children included, with the moderate, liberal form of Islam that is practiced in the Balkans? “Sure, you can wear a headscarf if you want, but you don’t have to be afraid your father will murder you if you don’t.” Yeah, that sounds nice.
An even older example, via the link to Michelle you gave:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/3413_jihad_in_7th_grade
From way back in July 2002.
jimmy the notable on July 5, 2008 at 3:49 PM
Respect for multiculturalism means appeasing the most aggressive and intolerant monoculture, especially when it’s noted for destroying any vestiges of the cultures it displaces.
X-treme ‘tolerance’! Like Jackass with beheadings, theocracy, and bombs.
Beagle on July 5, 2008 at 3:55 PM
Agreed. Well, except for the soulless part.
This event is just another example that there is a “judge not lest you be judged” conundrum that circles constantly about heads of Brit leaders of all stripes without ever being so kind as to touch them. Some here call it tyranny. I’ll offer moral turpitude, not as a substitute, but as a qualifier, just because they have excised from apologetics it’s most requirement — evaluation.
Dusty on July 5, 2008 at 4:05 PM
Which one of you is still for gun control?
Johan Klaus on July 5, 2008 at 4:06 PM
Do you mean role-play with a nun outfit? Oh, not that? I see.
Seriously, though, when it comes to religion, I don’t see why we need role-play. I don’t remember role-playing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict either. Maybe I just missed that day!
Spirit of 1776 on July 5, 2008 at 4:13 PM
Well this soulless atheist like me would have no problem with some Crusades role-playing. Let’s have some of that.
MB4 on July 5, 2008 at 4:13 PM
No one should be allowed to have anything larger than a 105 howitzer within the city limits after dark.
MB4 on July 5, 2008 at 4:15 PM
Nothing wrong teaching children about what religions exist in the world. But forcing them to practice any faith is out of bounds.
The parents are responsible for teaching their children religion or at least taking them to the church of their choosing. When the kid becomes an adult, he or she can make up their own mind.
Hog Wild on July 5, 2008 at 4:16 PM
So, why do you have to actually perform a religious act to learn about it? Are the Muslim student made to wear yarmulke and recite Hebrew prayers?
How about we stick to the basics in school, considering the decline in both American and British education systems?
ej_pez on July 5, 2008 at 4:17 PM
Mosques are plenty, graveyards are plenty, but morals and whiskey are scarce. The Koran does not permit Mohammedans to drink. Their natural instinct does not permit them to be moral.
- Mark Twain
MB4 on July 5, 2008 at 4:18 PM
When I, a thoughtful and unblessed Presbyterian, examine the Koran, I know that beyond any question every Mohammedan is insane, not in all things, but in religious matters. I cannot prove to him that he is insane, because you never can prove anything to a lunatic—for that is a part of his insanity and the evidence of it.
- Mark Twain
MB4 on July 5, 2008 at 4:19 PM
of course there would… is there not already? if you ask me, both sides of religion are evangelical… if they would just keep their religions to themselves this whole world would be better off… why must religious people push their religion on everyone around them.
Kaptain Amerika on July 5, 2008 at 4:21 PM
wow, allapundit there is a profound difference between learning about other cultures and going outside to get on prayer mats and subjugate oneself to Allah, regardless of which religions are are being included.
I happen to have learned about Islam, converting to Islam requires only for instance stating that you give yourself freely to Islam, by kneeling on the prayer mat & reciting verses of the koran one performs the only practical fundamental requirement in physical practice to be considered Muslim.
This is outrageous. Is there a difference between holding a scimitar over one’s head and instructing one to embrace Islam, and forcing a kid to get on the mat or face detention? Only in some people’s minds.
I went to a religious Jewish school, I prayed as a kid everyday, but I got to choose the religion and choose if that was for me. Britain is lost. This is not education, it is part of the global jihad - Is that teacher Muslim?
Your salient question is imho irrelevant. Textbooks teach, prayer mats indoctrinate no matter the religion offered.
If you forced me to go to a church or be baptized to learn about Christianity I would call you queen Isabella.
saus on July 5, 2008 at 4:29 PM
that should be ‘&’ not ‘or’. Sorry, allahpundit heated me up.
saus on July 5, 2008 at 4:33 PM
The European-muslim Union.
Johan Klaus on July 5, 2008 at 4:34 PM
Only if they confine their lesson in understanding to the happy-go-lucky comraderie around the campfire during the out and back trip.
Oh, and the solemn recitation of generic prayers for the souls of those the crusaders wished to meet, might be good, too.
Dusty on July 5, 2008 at 4:38 PM
Is the Koran published in 2-ply?
Just askin’.
Black Adam on July 5, 2008 at 4:43 PM
Who says there are no young people with strength of character in the UK?
Speakup on July 5, 2008 at 4:45 PM
Learning about Islam and forcing someone to pray to Allah are two COMPLETELY different things.
Did the Muslim children get in trouble for refusing to recite the Lord’s prayer? NO, OF COURSE NOT, THEY WEREN’T FORCED TO.
JustTruth101 on July 5, 2008 at 4:46 PM
Speakup on July 5, 2008 at 4:46 PM
Dude, I respect your opinion, and admire your work, but I don’t believe this for one instant. Were you really required by a teacher, ever, anywhere, to kneel and role-play a Catholic mass? Or a Jewish service, wearing a Yarmulke?
I have never heard of such a thing.
Jaibones on July 5, 2008 at 4:51 PM
They are trying to pull that sh*t here in the USA, too. Two recent cases, one in Texas and one here in Seminole county in Florida. They both got slapped down pretty quickly and hard by the locals.
JimK on July 5, 2008 at 4:55 PM
Work on that rhythm thing.
Red, juicy, and flamed.
Jaibones on July 5, 2008 at 4:57 PM
Are they going to show the kids what Islam does to apostates as well?
drjohn on July 5, 2008 at 4:58 PM
atheists may see no problem with this but Christians, Jews and Muslims for that matter see praying to another God as blasphame. In the middle east this would be a capital offence if the students were made to pray to Christ be it pretend or not.
Have you never heard the story of the golden calf.
Of course the atheists so no problem and since they are nonbelievers will pick the religion that can do them more harm to appease. Thus children must pray to Allah since making muslim students pray to Christ would bring bombings, riots and beheadings.
Atheists need to learn some simple facts just because they do not believe does not mean the rest of the population does not and will react accordingly when their God is slighted
unseen on July 5, 2008 at 4:58 PM
Excellent point. Bring in a loaf of bread and a cup of wine and tell each student they must partake in communion, while praying to Christ to thank him for his redemtive death on the cross. Think anybody would say anything?
It seems like the liberals don’t really think Islam is a religion. They treat it like a quaint cultural tradition; why should anybody resist taking part in their time-honored rituals? Requiring Christians, Jews, atheists, and children of other religions to partake in Islamic prayers shows no respect for Islam. The fact that they would allow prayer in a classroom, shows they don’t really think it is prayer. Twits.
Mallard T. Drake on July 5, 2008 at 4:58 PM
Good for the students. Christ said that those who are persecuted for their faith in Him will receive a special blessing. They should serve their detention with honor.
Mallard T. Drake on July 5, 2008 at 5:01 PM
In Texas they may be more than just slapped down.
Johan Klaus on July 5, 2008 at 5:03 PM
I bet not, because it would be “an outrage against all of Islam.”
Followed by umbrage, riots, and deaths.
drjohn on July 5, 2008 at 5:03 PM
Stop government education.
Johan Klaus on July 5, 2008 at 5:04 PM
Stop government
education.indroctrination.Johan Klaus on July 5, 2008 at 5:04 PM
Johan Klaus on July 5, 2008 at 5:05 PM
In the meanwhile, help me out - has anyone else, anywhere else, heard tell of a comparative religions class in K-12 which requires the students to role-play the Catholic mass? The Protestant service? The Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Wiccan, etc.?
Jaibones on July 5, 2008 at 5:07 PM
The term ‘multiculturalism’ assumes the essential equal value of all cultures. In fact any society worth its salt must assert the plain superiority of its culture, or it will collapse.
Let us be perfectly clear, the historic English culture is better than the ‘culture’ of the muhammedans and too, the religion of the English folk is superior to the cult of islam.
Those lads deserve medals for their grit and valor.
Scribbler on July 5, 2008 at 5:08 PM
Or at least if they do, it should be required to have a silencer so as to not wake the neighbors when fired.
Maxx on July 5, 2008 at 5:20 PM
It is encouraging to see this story posted on a number of blogs - here, Up Pompeii, DhimmiWatch, GoV etc.
These two boys took on the establishment by themselves. They are our youngest heros and should be recognized as such, making it clear to them, their families and fellow students that people the world over admire them and are talking and writing about their brave defiance of the Islamic indoctrination foisted upon their class.
We may not know the students names, but these two boys from the Alsager school remain heros in my book. Their example is one I will use to teach my youngest child that defiance in limited circumstances will not only be acceptable - but honorable.
BRAVO!
Well done Alsager boys!
Do it like the boys from Alsager High School -
Just Say NO to Islamic indoctrination!
heroyalwhyness on July 5, 2008 at 5:24 PM
If Britain has any hope of being saved from the insanity that now grips it, kids like these two boys will lead the way.
AZCoyote on July 5, 2008 at 5:30 PM
When God chose to destroy the culture of Babel He used “diversity.” Multi-culturalism kills baby.
Mojave Mark on July 5, 2008 at 5:37 PM
If the muslims don’t want to take communion, perhaps they can act like Christians in an Islmic society by being beheaded.
/sarc
Right_of_Attila on July 5, 2008 at 5:47 PM
Yeah. I wonder if there were other religions taught so the kids could role play? I’m sure all the “foreign” kids would have fun in make believe light saber fights since the Brits want to make Jedi an official religion (if they haven’t done so already).
When you believe in nothing you’ll fall for everything.
Britain is ripe for the taking by Islam.
BowHuntingTexas on July 5, 2008 at 6:06 PM
Err… I will wait to hear what the school has to say before believing what the bloody Mail publishes. It’s probably a bunch of bollocks.
lexhamfox on July 5, 2008 at 6:08 PM
Britain is ripe for the taking by Islam.
BowHuntingTexas on July 5, 2008 at 6:06 PM
Ha ha… a Texan comments on Britain being taken over by Islam… that’s rich amigo!
lexhamfox on July 5, 2008 at 6:09 PM
knowledge is essential to understanding.
–
Londonistan, we weep for thee.
normsrevenge on July 5, 2008 at 6:16 PM
I didn’t catch where I said things were or were not bad here as well with our invasion from south of the border. Especially considering the topic was teaching kids islam in school in the UK.
BowHuntingTexas on July 5, 2008 at 6:18 PM
This young “Meshach” and “Abed-nego” did right. We should see this as a warning of what is to come in our public schools, which preach “openness” rather teaching how to use reason to find what is right and good.
You may have no problem with this, but I do. This is the fundamental flaw of public schools. Openness is not a virtue, but it’s taught as one. Openness teaches us to forget about reason, to forget about finding the right or true answer to any question. “Multiculturalism” negates reason’s power by saying that there is no right or wrong by saying that all ideas have merit and are equally worthy of study. We know that some ideas stand to scrutiny better than others. Why then should students have to participate in “role-playing” when the very religion itself lacks a solid historical and philosophical foundation? Teaching Islam, or any world view, with no respect for its historical or philosophical merits detracts from a worthwhile education that teaches true critical, mature thinking based upon logic and reasoning.
Send_Me on July 5, 2008 at 6:41 PM
At which point we will wonder why a conservative blog in the U.S. is linking to bollocks stories from the bloody Mail in the first place.
Ah, yes - content is content. What was I thinking?
Jaibones on July 5, 2008 at 6:50 PM
There’d be dead bodies is Muslim children were forced to recite the Apostle’s Creed.
eeyore on July 5, 2008 at 6:51 PM
Dear Imam Abdul Moderate,
I own a small restaurant in Manchester. Outside of it is a neon sign for the bar across the street whose loops and curves resemble to me the name of Allah. Should I blow it up or worship it?
British Citizen (after indoctrination of course)
Andy in Agoura Hills on July 5, 2008 at 6:59 PM
Surely you mean kultur and volk?
Grow Fins on July 5, 2008 at 7:27 PM
Now after convincing your students to be loyal to allah the next step will be to abandon literacy and mathematics in the curriculum….
PRESTO! In 5 years you will have the makings of a jihaddi….
Sonosam on July 5, 2008 at 7:34 PM
davidk on July 5, 2008 at 8:02 PM
Teacher needs his ass kicked.
whitetop on July 5, 2008 at 8:14 PM
Dententions:
Could be worse,they could loose their heads!(Sarcasim),
but on Iranian soil,they would!
canopfor on July 5, 2008 at 8:51 PM
AllahPundit, please.
So the Muslim kids are role-playing Communion? I’m sure they aren’t and I’m sure that these teachers will not punish them for opting out.
baldilocks on July 5, 2008 at 9:39 PM
Besides that, I don’t want my kids even role-playing that they worship Baal.
- The Cat
MirCat on July 5, 2008 at 9:55 PM
Are you suggesting that the followers of islam will not try to force islam on others.
Johan Klaus on July 5, 2008 at 10:21 PM
Why do the kids have to actually get down on their knees and pray? Why doesn’t the teacher just demonstrate if it’s really about introducing them to different religions? This is pure attempted indoctrination. Good for the students for refusing.
Spolitics on July 5, 2008 at 11:11 PM
No, not every claim of superior culture and religion is ipso facto some sort of fascist thing. Anyway, an Englishman would suggest you’ve misspelt ‘culture’ and ‘folk’ (perfectly good words that little Austrian troll had no right to– and if one must write them in German, that Luther fellow used them much better), and then he’d call you an arse who couldn’t come up with an actual argument and tried to substitute an inflamatory to bring shame, when it’s you who stepped in the muck left by the booty-wearing hounds.
Of course I wouldn’t call you an arse. I’m not English, and I’d never spell it that way.
Scribbler on July 5, 2008 at 11:16 PM
Oh my GOD! A lefty punk compared conservatives to Nazis?
Somebody call Guiness!
Or, you know, just laugh at the shallow fool.
Merovign on July 6, 2008 at 1:38 AM
Three men were waiting at a bus stop: a Cowboy, an Indian and a Muslim.
The Muslim said to the Indian, “How come there are so many more Muslims now than hundreds of years ago, and yet there are so many fewer Indians than hundreds of years ago?”
The Cowboy tilted up his hat and adjusted his tooth pick and said, “That’s cause we ain’t played Cowboys and Muslims yet.”
- Somebody or Other
MB4 on July 6, 2008 at 1:52 AM
I have a system, much better than yours. I would put a rope around that teacher’s neck, put him up on a stool and then shoot the legs off the stool. Adios.
Tuco on July 6, 2008 at 2:01 AM
I wasn’t born to walk on water
I wasn’t born to sack and slaughter
But on my soul, I wasn’t born
To stoop, to scorn, and knuckle under
A man can learn to steal some thunder
A man can learn to work some wonder
And when the gauntlet’s down,
It’s time to rise and climb the sky
And soon the moon will smolder
And the winds will drive
Yes, a man grows older but his soul remains alive
All those tremulous stars still glitter
And I will survive!
Let my heart grow colder and as bitter as a falcon in the dive
There was a dream, a dying ember
There was a dream, I don’t remember
But I will resurrect that dream
Though rivers stream and hills grow steeper
For here in hell where life gets cheaper
Oh, here in hell the blood runs deeper
And when the final duel is near
I’ll lift my spear and fly
Piercing into the sky and higher
And the strong will thrive
Yes, the weak will cower while the fittest will survive
If we wait for the darkest hour
Till we spring alive
Then with claws of fire, we devour like a falcon in the dive
Percy on July 6, 2008 at 2:24 AM
The whole concept of multiculturalism is that it teaches a LACK of Judgement and critical thinking.
I am all for education, but it must be framed in a manner that allows for judgements to be made. This is good, this is bad…
Islam still does that. It teaches a twisted version of good and bad, a set of guidelines for its adherents to follow, while we in the West continue to NOT make Judgements.
We won WWII because the Judgement was Hitler and Tojo were bad…. we won the Cold War because Regean convinced us that the Communists were bad… problem now is that we, as a Western Society, have been trained out of making the Judgement that Islam is bad… when a simple reading of the Koran clearly shows that by Western standards, it is.
Romeo13 on July 6, 2008 at 10:25 AM
Because that’s the side that lost.
Classy.
I think you meant to say, “her ass kicked.”
Of course, these radical folks are scum, but can’t we keep our position’s voices classy? instead of promoting the “conservative neanderthal” stereotype, why not promote the logical, well-tempered conservative reality?
Mephistefales on July 6, 2008 at 12:03 PM
Sorry — I meant won.
Public education, baby!
Mephistefales on July 6, 2008 at 12:05 PM
It is possible but then this story was in the Daily Mail.
The Daily Mail, to those of you who are not familiar with it, prints an enormous amount of inflammatory BS - precisely to wind up those of us who aren’t all that fond of leftists and Islamists.
I’d take this one with a huge shovel-full of salt - the DM has a very bad record when the efficacy of its stories is challenged and this is reflected in the number of libel suits it has lost over the years…
Ares on July 6, 2008 at 1:07 PM
Question is, after all those other children went through the motions of Islamic worship, are they now subject to death for any other kind?
njcommuter on July 6, 2008 at 6:34 PM
Note to self: Teach grandchildren not to kneel on prayer mat and recite prayer to Allah, even if teacher says so. Grandma will deal with teacher.
NellE on July 6, 2008 at 7:58 PM
Again, its times like these that I miss Bryan…maybe Michelle will bring him back and give him a pay raise.
MechEng5by5 on July 6, 2008 at 10:23 PM
If they tried to force my kid to pray to anyones God I would be fit to be tied. I’d go all Billy Jeff on their @$$3$$.
ronsfi on July 7, 2008 at 12:39 PM