Obama: I’m willing to “refine my policies” on Iraq; Update: “Quagmire,” says ABC; Update: Why now? Update: Obama clarifies, “I intend to end this war”
posted at 4:09 pm on July 3, 2008 by Allahpundit
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At long last, the ultimate flip-flop is at hand.
“I’ve always said that the pace of withdrawal would be dictated by the safety and security of our troops and the need to maintain stability. That assessment has not changed,” he said. “And when I go to Iraq and have a chance to talk to some of the commanders on the ground, I’m sure I’ll have more information and will continue to refine my policies.”…
“My 16-month timeline, if you examine everything that I’ve said, was always premised on making sure that our troops were safe,” he said. “I said that based on the information that we had received from our commanders that one to two brigades a month could be pulled out safely, from a logistical perspective. My guiding approach continues to be that we’ve got to make sure that our troops are safe and that Iraq is stable.”
He added, “I’m going to continue to gather information to find out whether those conditions still hold.”
I’m not going to rub his face in it. The important thing is to make the right decision and he’s nearer to that now than he’s ever been. Yeah, it’s almost certainly for cynical political reasons, but so long as the progress continues and public opinion improves, those cynical political reasons will continue to steer him right. It’s true, too, what Axelrod said earlier about Obama having consistently left himself some wiggle room on Iraq: As far back as last July he was using the line about being as careful getting out as we were careless getting in, and even his awful proposal from January 2007 to have all combat troops out by March 31, 2008 called for temporarily suspending the withdrawal if the Iraqi government met all 13 of Bush’s benchmarks. None of which is to say that he wasn’t completely wrong about the surge or that he’s not light years less confidence-inspiring than McCain is on this issue, but I don’t want to punish good behavior, especially when so few of the people on his side are even willing to entertain the notion of rethinking our commitment in light of the security gains.
The one truly new and startling element of what he said here is the boldfaced part about Iraqi stability, which I can’t remember ever factoring heavily into his rhetoric. Neither can Michael Crowley of TNR, who’s evidently been researching Obama’s Iraq plan in some detail for an upcoming article. The importance of stability did pop up in last year’s speech on Iraq in Iowa, but mainly in the context of negotiations with Iran and other other countries around it. The strongest language I can find in the speech about using troops to maintain stability comes in an aside about withdrawing from more secure areas before we withdraw from less secure ones. Exit question: How’s he going to explain this to the nutroots?
Update: Heart-ache at DU. “ARE YOU KIDDING???”
Update: The heart-ache spreads. ABC says it’s a game-changer:
His comments Wednesday, saying that he will “continue to refine” his plan to withdraw combat troops from Iraq inside of 16 months, seems likely to leave the campaign on the defensive on this issue for days or weeks…
There will be only one relevant question now out of Obama’s trip now: Do you stand by your plan? Obama is unlikely to give a direct, yes-or-no answer — and that’s where Sen. John McCain and his allies can and will pounce…
Obama’s migration to the political center has been well-documented, and is already a frame McCain is building around his candidacy. But Iraq — this is qualitatively different, an issue that lives on a higher plane, since opposing the war was the rationale for his candidacy in the first place.
They also point to the statement on withdrawal at Obama’s website, which sounds considerably less nuanced than what he said today.
Update: Why would he say this now? What does he gain from it politically? Iraq’s receded as an issue vis-a-vis the economy. The latest poll shows 64% want the next president to withdraw most troops within a few months of taking office, a three percent increase since March. Scroll down at the link to the last poll taken before that and you’ll find 56% want troops out in the next year or two regardless of what it would mean for Iraq’s stability. That is to say, Obama’s now theoretically to the right of most of the public. Why?
Conceivably he’s worried that the progress will continue for the next few months and popular opinion will start to move significantly shortly before Election Day, in which case he’ll be caught flat-footed if he doesn’t get out in front of it. Also conceivably, he figures he’s got McCain beat on enough other issues that he might as well neutralize this one by mimicking him. It’s not like the left is going to stay home and throw away universal health care; most of them, I suspect, will simply shrug this off as a political gambit to be abandoned once Obama’s elected. But like I said last week, it’s hard to see things in Iraq improving so dramatically and public opinion shifting so dynamically that Obama would actually suffer for his dovishness at the polls. If he sticks to his withdrawal line, realistically the worst that can happen is the issue becomes a wash. In which case, why would he do this? Could the Messiah actually be having a genuine change of opinion based on the facts or does election-year demonization not allow that possibility? And if it is genuine, then, er, why doesn’t he just keep it to himself until after Election Day?
Update: A climbdown — or is it?
In a second, quickly-scheduled press availability, the Senator insists his position on Iraq has not changed.
“I intend to end this war… That position has not changed. I have not equivocated on that position. I am not searching for maneuvering room with respect to that position.”
Though he also says:
“I have always reserved the right to do what’s best for America’s national interest… I would be a poor commander-in-chief if I didn’t take facts on the ground into account.”
Update: More clarification: “I have seen no information that contradicts the notion that we can bring out troops out safely at a pace of one to two brigades per month… This is the same position that I had four months ago.”
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The war has already ended in Iraq. It’s a policing action now.
Dusty on July 3, 2008 at 5:52 PM
Please read the comments on DU. It’s delish!
ronsfi on July 3, 2008 at 5:52 PM
Stop! My head is spinning! What does he mean? about this, about anything???
pseudonominus on July 3, 2008 at 5:57 PM
More fun from the DU link:
Hornets nest, meet stick.
TexasDan on July 3, 2008 at 6:02 PM
This is to the surprise of no one.
… I stand corrected.
Dash on July 3, 2008 at 6:03 PM
Regarding the “climbdown” -
It’s one thing to change one’s mind on a position over time, as conditions change; it’s quite another to change your mind from one hour to the next.
Buy Danish on July 3, 2008 at 6:03 PM
Joining the chorus:
“This is not the Iraq War I knew!”
maverick muse on July 3, 2008 at 6:03 PM
I am not going to give Obama as much credit as AP. I do not trust Obama. He has proven that what he says at any given moment does not matter, so why would I believe he is clarifying anything?
As for why he would do this…well the national polls might show that people want the troops home {who doesn’t?} but Quinnipiac came out with polls for battleground states and those polls showed a clear majority wanted the US to stay in Iraq until the country is stable. So maybe it is particular states that have him concerned. Or maybe it is how the questions are asked. In truth I do not think that most people want to see one of the world’s leading oil producing countries fall into chaos right now. And Obama might know that.
Terrye on July 3, 2008 at 6:04 PM
Bwahahahaha – dumbass thought nobody would notice on the day when everyone is in their cars driving to the beach for the 4th of July.
Note to Axelrod – calling hasty second news conferences is GUARANTEED to make people notice.
rockmom on July 3, 2008 at 6:05 PM
For those who haven’t fainted, and are paying attention, this means:
That position has changed. I don’t want you to notice.
I have equivocated, but I just equivocally un-equivocated.
I am searching for maneuvering room, just in case the failed policies of the past succeed.
Since Vero Possumus likes Latin, the word “equivocate” comes from the Latin for “equal voices”.
The Real Possum gives equal voice to both sides of the issue.
Step up to the plate and knock this one out of the park, Senator McCain!
Steve Z on July 3, 2008 at 6:06 PM
Does that include Afganistan or any action against Al qaeda ?
William Amos on July 3, 2008 at 6:07 PM
Obama is the Imelda Marcos of political positions: he has a collection of different ones to match every occasion and every audience!!!
The only difference is that Imelda had one right shoe for every left shoe….
landlines on July 3, 2008 at 6:08 PM
- The Cat
MirCat on July 3, 2008 at 6:12 PM
I said this months ago.
Obama won the primary by taking Hillary’s health care policy as his own.
He will do the same with McCain on Iraq. Here it comes.
If there is little difference in policy, just pick the young dude that speaks well.
faraway on July 3, 2008 at 6:13 PM
Between Weasley Clark and this, Obama’s plan for a “I am a patriot. Really I am!” campaign this week has crashed and burned.
Damage control takes you off message (besides giving the opposition great ammo for ads.) and makes you play defense.
Wethal on July 3, 2008 at 6:14 PM
“I intend to end this war”
Translation: “I intend to take credit for ending this war (which will already be won by November).”
Doc Mike on July 3, 2008 at 6:17 PM
This is a strange statement, is it not? I RESERVED THE RIGHT TO DO WHAT’S BEST FOR AMERICA’S NATIONAL INTERST. As CIC, isn’t that the JOB!
Is it Just Words or Words Have Meaning?
PappaMac on July 3, 2008 at 6:19 PM
He hasn’t quite figured out the internet speed thing yet. Doesn’t give a guy a chance to catch his breath. He has to be getting confused himself.
a capella on July 3, 2008 at 6:19 PM
Somebody needs to steal Barry’s tap-dancing shoes.
He’d be unable to move if they were missing.
He’s the Sammy Davis, Jr. of politics.
profitsbeard on July 3, 2008 at 6:21 PM
Whew, thanks for the clarification Barry. I was worried you might be flip-flopping and flailing around (again).
/chuckle
RightWinged on July 3, 2008 at 6:25 PM
Uh, AP, I don’t read many of your posts on Iraq. Just read this one cuz it was such a craptacular Obambi stunt, and I was curious what the commenters would say.
I still think you’re one of the smartest and funniest bloggers at the keyboard today – I just hate your defaulting to Beltway conventional wisdom and opinion survey reductionism on Iraq.
The “terrible truth” is that public opinion surveys don’t count for squat when you’re talking about leadership and serious matters. Iraq is a serious matter. You’re more focused on the very flawed and in any case unimportant opinion polls than a Clinton staffer. If the opinion polls you focus on are so important and such good guides to policy in war-time, let’s cut the budget by eliminating much of DOD, State, and the NSC staff and have national security policy determined by phone-in text messages, kinda like they pick the winner of “American Idol”.
Politically, your focus on the ebb and flow of polls and Obama’s attempted triangulation – well, let’s face it, hist pathetic and obvious tacking to the latest wiff or trend of opinion – is not a solid presidential campaign tactic either. Many votes for (successful) presidential candidates come from those who admire their leadership and character even as they differ on many policy matters (see Bush, 2004 – an extremely clear case of that). So Obama’s clumsy flip-flops (sudden changes on serious policy matters for no apparent reason other than short-term political expediency) are much more likely to hurt him than help him with independent or otherwise potentially reachable voters.
The absence of anything resembling a professional media and the gobsmacking political cowardice and ineptness of most GOPers serve to muddy the issue, but Obama’s easily the worst candidate for prez in my lifetime (edging out Horse-face by a whisker, and the honorable vet McGovern by a good length or two).
IceCold on July 3, 2008 at 6:27 PM
Obama possesses the unique ability to hold 5 or 6 different principled stands on the same issue within 24 hours.
This guy is a joke, really.
redneck hippie on July 3, 2008 at 6:30 PM
“What goes up, must come down.
Spinnin Wheel, got to round!”
He must have a full time PR person, whos’ only job is to constantly start each statement with, “What the Senator MEANT to say was….”
I loved the reaction from some of the nutroots at DU, their little pointy heads must be ready to explode by now!
Markvike on July 3, 2008 at 6:34 PM
Should have read “Got to go round”
Markvike on July 3, 2008 at 6:35 PM
I am beginning to think Obama and the Obamanatrix sit around at night and say “Hey, what stupid thing can we say tomorrow and those idiots at the NYT will write an oped saying it’s the greatest thing evah?”
faraway on July 3, 2008 at 6:38 PM
He knows this is the ONLY issue holding a lot of McCain’s core to him…if he can unstick some of them from McCain over Iraq, it won’t even be close on election day. I was a very shrewd move…and I just can’t imagine what McCain will counter with to stop the bleeding this will cause.
AUINSC on July 3, 2008 at 6:49 PM
Cue the NYTimes editorial lauding this “pragmatic” position in 5..4..3..
Wethal on July 3, 2008 at 6:50 PM
Told ya. This is the play action fake of his end-run to the center. If he can land this, he’s in.
spmat on July 3, 2008 at 7:12 PM
It all depends on what the meaning of theoretically is and what the meaning of is, is. By most definitions he is not.
In the Field Artillery it is called adjusting fire, not laying the Battery 3200 mils out.
MB4 on July 3, 2008 at 7:17 PM
lol.
This is all like a game of cat and mouse with Obama in the role of the cat.
MB4 on July 3, 2008 at 7:18 PM
None of the Above… 08
Romeo13 on July 3, 2008 at 7:28 PM
I can already see this chump trying to take credit for VICTORY in Iraq and the media letting him do it. Just watch.
ikez78 on July 3, 2008 at 7:38 PM
Going to need a lot of Dart boards in the White House in 2009.
Hummer53 on July 3, 2008 at 7:49 PM
…which is the standard opening phrase whenever BO explains how his flip-flop is not a flip-flop.
jgapinoy on July 3, 2008 at 7:58 PM
This is not the surrender in Iraq that I knew…
Dale in Atlanta on July 3, 2008 at 8:20 PM
You know…………. the guys on the floor in the printing room of the presses are starting to get a little pissed off on hearing “STOP THE PRESSES!!!” and having to re-plate and re-ink every 5 seconds with Obama……..
Seven Percent Solution on July 3, 2008 at 8:21 PM
This is downright weird. I can’t figure out what Sen. Obama is saying. It sounds like he doesn’t know what he’s saying either. What’s really worrisome is that I’m not sure he cares. He does not appear to be a “conviction politician”.
Jill1066 on July 3, 2008 at 8:26 PM
64% want the next president to withdraw most troops within a few months of taking office, a three percent increase since March. Scroll down at the link to the last poll taken before that and you’ll find 56% want troops out in the next year or two
Time to light it up….F’ the snap-shot-polls! If these #’s are true we have already lost this effort and any future conflict with the Islamopukes, our definition of civilization has expire. Spite is what it truly is, issue the launch order, turn the keys, vaporize most of the planet, better to hit the mountain with your head in the scope than to burn to death watching the rescue units roll!
dmann on July 3, 2008 at 8:35 PM
MB4, will you now no longer vote for Goldwater, and vote for Obama?
Entelechy on July 3, 2008 at 8:41 PM
I depends what the word war means and were i am speaking.In N.D. we can win it.In Calf. we must pull out now.In N.C.the troops are winning.In Wisconson we are losing and all the Gen. are liers.You see i can be all things to all people!
thmcbb on July 3, 2008 at 8:41 PM
“Change we can believe in”
Translation – change = however the wind blows, this second.
No wonder the world loves this cipher.
America, if you don’t wish to be run by the U.N.’s ronchier facets, wake up now.
Entelechy on July 3, 2008 at 8:44 PM
Beliefs you change in!
Good Lt on July 3, 2008 at 8:49 PM
Ironically, what he means is now posted in the ‘Headlines’ section of this blog…perfectly intrepreted by the brilliant Iowahawk:
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2008/07/a-clarification.html
Sadly, it will work too! This is what a lot of 9/11 Republicans have been waiting for…and it will kill McCain…the left and ’so-called centrists’ have no reason, whatsoever, to vote for McCain over Barry. McCain has already thrown the Republican base under the ‘Straight Talk Express’ in his efforts to capture the PaulNuts and other ‘centrists’…nothing left for him to hold on to as he heads for the free-fall to political oblivion…taking the country with him. Yes, he’s every bit the cynic Clenis was…probably much more so…and it works in 2008 America.
AUINSC on July 3, 2008 at 8:51 PM
I will probably vote for Bob Barr, whoever he is, but the Devil I don’t know worries me less right now than the McDevil I do know.
MB4 on July 3, 2008 at 8:53 PM
I said before on HA that Obama will not withdraw troops from Iraq.
He’ll be the continuation of Bush, to the absolute dismay of the lefties, and a few righties, on matters war, charities, schools, spending, amnesty, war on terror, security, etc.
On one item he’ll differ, and that is picking our pockets, taxes.
Change is all we’re going to be left with, but not the kind he’s selling to his lemmings, on the spectrum of the political isle.
The other Change is an absolute fiction.
Fools, you’re being duped, from the left to the right. How I will remind you!
Entelechy on July 3, 2008 at 8:54 PM
MB4, Barr is just a little devil. I’m getting scared and amused. I’ll lose the amusement in time. Hide the gold and know where the guns are.
Entelechy on July 3, 2008 at 8:55 PM
Entelechy on July 3, 2008 at 8:44 PM
Your plea sadly falls on deaf ears, BDS as manufacture and marketed by the MSM guarantees an Obama presidency, a presidency that will redefine and ultimately destroy America. I bleed for my girls and hope they will survive the coming purge of college educated crackers that don’t worship ghetto culture. (time to pickle the load)
dmann on July 3, 2008 at 8:56 PM
Why a child of five could see total clarity in the current political situation. Someone go fetch a child of five, I can’t make head nor tail out of it. [updated]
- Groucho
MB4 on July 3, 2008 at 9:03 PM
dmann, I have not given up, yet. Like I said before, and will repeat often until Nov. – the world will either have a Gargantuan Obamagasm on Nov. 4, or it will cry hysterically. The Americans are still in charge and can decide. They will, however, deserve what they chose.
Every populace deserves its leader, including Venezuela and Cuba.
Entelechy on July 3, 2008 at 9:08 PM
Either this man McCain is dead or my watch has stopped.
- Groucho
MB4 on July 3, 2008 at 9:10 PM
Ok. We know the majority of the Democratic primary voters are lunatics relative to politics. We know that candidates have to lie to these lunatics to have a shot at being president. I’m glad that Obama is a man of enough character to stab these lunatics in the back. It makes me like him more–not less. I wouldn’t even think of accusing him of flip-flopping. Instead, I would rejoice that the man who be the next president isn’t as nutcase as he claimed to be for a while. He had a good reason to lie.
thuja on July 3, 2008 at 9:17 PM
Entelechy on July 3, 2008 at 9:08 PM
Understood, It will be interesting to see how “we” are portrayed when civil discourse becomes reality for most conservatives and/or true patriots. I know the progressives will not hesitate to destroy the constitution under the guise of moral/ethical relativity!
dmann on July 3, 2008 at 9:21 PM
thuja on July 3, 2008 at 9:17 PM
Awesome…go ahead and vote for the whore!
dmann on July 3, 2008 at 9:23 PM
Dedicated to our own, otherwise sane, thuja.
The two money-quotes from the cool and brilliant Iowahawk:
Only blind and foolish lemmings fall for anything he says, on the entire political spectrum.
Bill Clinton is very sad that he’s beaten at the game.
Hillary is calling Bill an ‘omnipotent’ liar and threatening him with divorce.
Machiavelli is very proud.
The U.N. is having a premature Obamagasm.
The United States of America will be farked royal (you too thuja).
Entelechy on July 3, 2008 at 9:27 PM
Entelechy walked into the valley
With a stone clutched in her hand
She was only a girl
But she knew someone must take a stand
There will always be a valley
Always mountains one must scale
There will always be perilous waters
Which someone must sail
Into valleys, into waters
Into jungles, into hell
Let us ride, let us ride home again with a story to tell
Into darkness, into danger
Into storms that rip the night
Don’t give in, don’t give up
But give thanks for the glorious fight
Percy on July 3, 2008 at 9:29 PM
We are all quite mad here.
Sigy on July 3, 2008 at 9:32 PM
I wouldn’t vote for Obama for any reason. I do think we should be more polite than call him a “whore”. I’d far rather have as a president a “whore” who lies to the Democratic primary voters than a Kucinich who believes what the Democratic primary voters believe.
thuja on July 3, 2008 at 9:32 PM
Percy, the great lady, this America, is still worth fighting for. This weekend better remind us all.
Entelechy on July 3, 2008 at 9:33 PM
thuja, I’ll call him a whore with delight, and we are whores too. One needs to call things what they are. Problems, for example, are not ‘hurdles’. They are problems to solve, then we go party.
“Parliament of whores” is a great book. Available on Amazon. You haven’t laughed or had reason to cry more than when reading it.
Entelechy on July 3, 2008 at 9:36 PM
Also, thuja, just because he lies to the liberals now, doesn’t mean that he’ll stand for anything later. This is an absolute cipher, a marionette, who’se strings can be pulled by anyone.
Entelechy on July 3, 2008 at 9:38 PM
To clarify, thuja, in all these political threads
whore = political whore, of course
Entelechy on July 3, 2008 at 9:39 PM
We agree. I feel like I should make some witticism using “just words” here, but I sadly lack the cleverness to figure out where to go with it.
And I’ll check out the PJ O’Rourke book my next library trip.
thuja on July 3, 2008 at 9:45 PM
Manufactured and Marketed Identity Politics will win this election negating my sorry ass night shift tax paying vote. I will be countered and overwhelmed by those whom exemplify ignorant, wagon riding defeatists that can not spell FREEDOM, never mind internalize its meaning and ultimately defend its significance.
Obamam or Die!
dmann on July 3, 2008 at 9:45 PM
It’s freaking amateur hour at Obambi central. And McCain is retooling his staff. Get the popcorn, this could turn out to be extremely entertaining.
JAW on July 3, 2008 at 9:51 PM
AUINSC:
I am not so sure this will hurt McCain. For one thing, most people who are sticking with McCain because of the war will not believe a word Obama says on this issue. The man has no credibility when it comes to the war. He used this very issue to beat Hillary Clinton over the head with, because after all she was such a war monger and all.
And I don’t think that the war is all. Obama is too liberal on a lot of issues and most sane Republicans {which does leave out the MDS crowd} will not vote for someone like Obama. And a lot of Independents are Indpendents because they distrust politicians, and this move by Obama is blatantly manipulative.
The very idea of Obama picking Supreme Court Justices and doing apology tours around the world is enough to make me vote for McCain.
Terrye on July 3, 2008 at 9:54 PM
Newsflash!
Obama is having his feet replaced by a Lazy Susan.
(Made from one of his bus’ hubcaps, evidently.)
profitsbeard on July 3, 2008 at 9:56 PM
Entelechy on July 3, 2008 at 9:39 PM
Thank you…a political “whore” is truly the most damning embodiment of the word. This brand of Ho is entrusted with the good of the many, over the good of the one. How Obama and his sheep can separate his personal Ho’smanship from the challenges 21st century America faces is beyond ridiculous, oh yeah….racial healing, true equality, hope and change…its all about the O!
Obamam or Die!
dmann on July 3, 2008 at 9:57 PM
And I am tired of hearing how McCain has thrown the base under the bus. I mean who is the base anyway? Anyone who calls himself or herself a Republican and then goes out and votes for Obama does not need to be lecturing John McCain or anyone else on party loyalty. McCain was popular enough with rank and file Republicans to win the nomination. Maybe they {the voters} are the ones who were throwing people under the bus. It seems they had different ideas about who the base really is.
Terrye on July 3, 2008 at 10:00 PM
profitsbeard on July 3, 2008 at 9:56 PM
Magnific!!!
dmann on July 3, 2008 at 10:01 PM
CAESAR!
Limerick on July 3, 2008 at 10:02 PM
Limerick on July 3, 2008 at 10:02 PM
Least we forget!
dmann on July 3, 2008 at 10:11 PM
Look…first, I’m voting for McCain, though I do so in the sense that I’m voting for the first Democrat-Republican…a liberal who uses conservative sheep-skin to hide the fact that he is a 100% liberal…of the 1975 variety, but a liberal all the same. But I honestly believe, on this one issue, National Security, he will protect our country…I don’t believe him on any other subject, based on his track record.
Having said that, on just about any other subject…he has gone down the road of the Tories in England…Labour-lite…I’m just like him, on every subject, except I’m a less radical version…weak tea and it will appeal to nobody.
He’s left the door wide open from day one to be cynically outflanked by Obama…and it has just happened on a broad front. Obama is charismatic and McCain is not…the only thing he had going for him is that he might stand strong for some things that are important to this country..and with the exception of Iraq, nobody trusts him at all on any other issue..especially his base.
AUINSC on July 3, 2008 at 10:18 PM
George Will’s question for McKoolaid drinkers -
“The more McCain talks — about wicked “speculators,” about how he reveres ANWR as much as the Grand Canyon, about adjusting the planet’s thermostat, etc. — the more conservatives cling to judicial nominees as a reason for supporting him. But now another portion of his signature legislation has been repudiated by the court as an affront to the First Amendment, and again Roberts and Alito have joined the repudiation. Yet McCain promises to nominate jurists like them. Is that believable?”
MB4 on July 3, 2008 at 10:43 PM
Yet another good point. As I said, I don’t trust him on anything except national security…and that is pure, blind, faith on my part. And no, it’s not believable..and yet, still, I’m voting for him…it’s not people like me, who he has already tossed overboard in his hopeless reach for the left that he has to worry about though.
AUINSC on July 3, 2008 at 10:56 PM
You won’t regret it. While at it, also consider getting “Eat the rich”. Any book by him is a delight, every word of each.
Entelechy on July 3, 2008 at 11:10 PM
Limerick on July 3, 2008 at 11:16 PM
Limerick, great quote – this guy has one face for each idiot who’s listening to him.
Dearest dmann, inevitability isn’t what the camp thinks. Just ask Hillary.
You despair too early. Trust profitsbeard’s political instincts. I have to.
Entelechy on July 3, 2008 at 11:20 PM
The Scarlet Letter is one of my favorite books. You can laugh and cry on the same page.
Limerick on July 3, 2008 at 11:29 PM
That sounds a lot like one of my patients.
One Barack Obama is an even more interesting and challenging patient than Hillary Clinton. While Hillary’s multiple personalities cross over her many multiple past heroic lives, as she related it to me when I had her under past life regression hypnosis anyway, such as her being straight shooting hard drinking Annie Oakley in her most recent past life and an heroic defender along with her next in command a General George S. Patton of the Alamo against Giant Vikings in the one before that, Barack has two very distinctive personalties at the same time right now in the present and in my sessions with him he goes back and forth between the two. He doesn’t seem to be able to make up his mind which he wants to be. I have named the one personality Homie Obama and the other Squire Obama.
Homie Obama is an angry Black man who found his soul mate in Michelle the angry hate America Black woman of his dreams and in Jeremiah Wright the God damn America and curse all things whitey firebrand mentor he had been searching for.
Squire Obama on the other hand is an upper class elitist white liberal in the John Kerry mode who really very much wanted to marry a rich white woman and only married Michelle instead as he needed to establish his Black cover and sought out Jeremiah Wright simply to gain his Black credentials or in the vernacular “creds”.
This is making treating him most difficult as it is most vexing to determine if he is coming or going, an upper class elitist white liberal very much in the mode of the French Royalist John Kerry or an angry ghetto Black man in the mose of Al Sharpton.
At my advanced age and state of decomposition I can hardly be expected to treat both of Barak’s contradictory personalities and still have enough time to have a reasonable chance of making any significant progress treating Hillary which is pretty much a full time job in and of itself and likely to become even more so unless her fantasy about Obama being assassinated comes true…. …
Sigy on July 3, 2008 at 11:43 PM
The Baba Ram Dass of the 21st Century… Red Obama Be Here Now.
That he is “nearer to the right decision” is a coincidence of the moment. Obama is an opportunistic socialist who cannot be counted on, from one day to the next, to do what he says.
ignatz
ignatzk on July 4, 2008 at 12:39 AM
To say the “war has already ended” is not accurate. To be technical, since war was never declared by Congress, our actions in Iraq, and every other “war” after World War 2, has been a police action. In practical terms, the “war” is still underway. The high-intensity stage of the conflict has ended, yes. The low-intensity, counterinsurgency stage of warfare is well underway. We’re merely at a different stage of the police action/”war” in Iraq. To a lawyer, it may be a police action, but to the Soldier, it’s a war.
Send_Me on July 4, 2008 at 1:29 AM
Allah, Occam’s Razor says internal polling has Obama scared. Scared that the polls that are public are junk, particularly in the swing states. Ohio, Michigan, etc.
ALREADY his campaign is talking about winning without PA, OH, MI, and FL.
It’s a flip-flop too far of course.
whiskey_199 on July 4, 2008 at 1:44 AM
I find it ironic that there is still chatter about pulling out. I just completed a 600 kilometer movement from vicinity of Mosul to Baghdad and nothing happened. Nothing- I was bored. The significance of that is this is my third tour. This would not happen in 04 when I was in Fallujah or 05 when I was here conducting patrols in Diyala. I would have gotten some form of contact on a lengthy move like that (IED or at least some small arms). One could argue that my opinion isn’t based on empirical data and is the result of one long, lucky convoy but I’m adamant that being on the road for that long with no enemy contact would not have been possible even a year ago. I’m still in shock. I had some less experienced Soldiers convinced we would definitely see something. Now they think I’m paranoid HA!
Get the Troops out my butt! We’re just now getting this thing done.
Just my 2 cents. Happy 4 July.
Trooper on July 4, 2008 at 1:51 AM
In the Ameican writers category, NH is great. I loved the book too, Lim.
Entelechy on July 4, 2008 at 2:14 AM
American, that is…
Entelechy on July 4, 2008 at 2:15 AM
This year the polls will be more off scale than they usually are. No sane person will tell them the truth.
Entelechy on July 4, 2008 at 2:18 AM
Here’s a question that has a pretty obvious answer:
When will the media come around and start reporting about the incredible progress being made in Iraq?
That will happen after the messiah himself visits Iraq and sees it. Just you wait and see. It’s coming.
rockhead on July 4, 2008 at 2:18 AM
I do believe you are right in principle, but the timing is off. By that I mean this: when he gets back, he’ll explain how there is only limited progress, regardless of what he sees. Then, after getting elected, he’ll wait a few short months and announce that all is going marvelously well since he’s given new guidance. He’ll try to portray himself as the savior of Iraq, since it’ll be under his Presidency that the war will end. He’s a true Machiavellian: he believes that perceptions are more important that reality. The problem is that it’s not his hard work, his blood, nor his life that’s on the line here. To him, the Iraq war is merely an academic exercise rather than a struggle between good and evil. To him the military is composed of nothing more than expendable pawns meant to be used to further his political gain.
Send_Me on July 4, 2008 at 2:34 AM
Maybe when/if there is enough of this “incredible progress” so that most of the U.S. Soldiers and Marines have come home and the place has not fallen apart. That would be a good time.
MB4 on July 4, 2008 at 2:41 AM
MB4 – so until then there is no news coming from Iraq. Unless it’s bad news, then it’s news. You can quibble about my adjective, but progress should not be measured by how many soldiers are there without it falling apart. If that means there are 75K left in Iraq, then I’d say great. After all there are 75K in Germany now.
Send_me – I bow to your superior analysis, bravo.
rockhead on July 4, 2008 at 4:14 AM
Don’t get sucked in. Obama is an anti-war as he is militantly pro-abortion. He’s saying what he must to win the election from McCain while leaving a trail of soundbytes that exonerate him on both sides of every issue.
Amy Proctor on July 4, 2008 at 4:58 AM
Or to give those voters a reason to stay home on election day, which is a far more likely scenario.
Nichevo on July 4, 2008 at 5:23 AM
And the Republican Party picked John McAmnesty to lose to this dufus! By the time of the election, Obama’s campaign staff will have the American voters convinced that the bad guys in Iraq layed down their arms because they feared an Obama administration!
sabbott on July 4, 2008 at 7:14 AM
Name the commanders gave this information. Gen. Clark?
JeffinSac on July 4, 2008 at 7:57 AM
Obama has more positions than those described in the Kama Sutra
Limerick: Your Hawthorne quotation is one of my favorites by one of my favorite authors, (O’Rourke is no slouch either.) I used to use Hawthorne’s pithy remark as a prompt for compositions back in my teaching days. Between your contributions and Entelechy’s, I imagine that we would have a lively conversation. (Texas Jew and upinak provide great fodder for discussion in the other arena of energy and its relation to national security.)
An aside: While volunteering at a local craft and heritage fair yesterday, I observed a twenty-something cruising the crowds to register voters. His clipboard featured the well-recognized Obama campaign icon. The sheep and his robotized shepherds are everywhere. They are relentless.
onlineanalyst on July 4, 2008 at 8:31 AM
[Send_Me on July 4, 2008 at 1:29 AM]
You’ll have little argument from me wrt to your points, other than being even more precise in the semantics and the logic after coming up with mutually agreeable definitions of terms.
However, I was responding to a comment from a Senator from Congress, who, as you indicate, should know that war was never declared and hasn’t been since WWII.
Similarly so, in practical terms. And no matter how you desire to qualitatively characterize the actions in Iraq, ending it will not end the war for our soldiers.
I don’t mean to be snarky to any except those who, like Obama, want to use Iraq merely for their own political advantage, with his, “I will end the war in Iraq.” I want us to win the war in Iraq. If, in the process of winning, even our military finds it more desirable to use terms suggesting, not a warfare but police-fare by frequently characterizing their, and Iraqi, actions as arrested or detained, rather than surrendered or captured, it’s fine by me.
I won’t belabor my general point by wasting space explaining how Obama’s assertion is false from the practical perspective of his ending only our involvement, or merely suspending our participation in it, neither of which would either end or suspend the “war” for those he decides to have remain there. We all know it’s just words.
Dusty on July 4, 2008 at 10:17 AM
And while Obama does the Crappie Flop, the RNC and McAmnesty are silent…
sabbott on July 4, 2008 at 10:32 AM
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