On to the clip, destined to become a cult classic among atheist-haters of every stripe. Click the image to watch.

Firstly, disagreement is not hate. But mischaracterising disagreement as hate, is in fact hate.

Secondly, torture is in the eye of the beholder. Anything can be considered torture, but the question is what is acceptable interrogation?

I think we should take all these people, feed em till the are fat, dumb, and happy, and then slip in some sodium pentathol.

I am not one of those.

HeIsSailing on July 3, 2008 at 1:19 AM

There is a flaw in your explanation. Your approach assumes that one does not take into account the unexplained. There are things that everyone encounters that cannot be explained by any scientific means we have created. They cannot be explained with our known senses other than the fact that they did happen. Therefore, it is only logical to conclude that there is something greater at work. What that something is, is irrelevant. It precludes atheism if you accept the possibility that it could be some sort of greater force beyond our absolute understanding. Atheism rejects all notions of higher powers. The consideration of such shows a lack of this conviction.

Jaynie59 on July 2, 2008 at 8:56 PM

Grafted on July 2, 2008 at 9:55 PM

I think the term agnosticm is very misunderstood. Most assume it is a claim of ignorance (I don’t know whether God exists or not), but this is not exactly correct. Agnosticism is an expression of what knowledge I possess – theism (or atheism) is an expression of what I believe or (don’t believe) based on that knowledge.

I am agnostic, meaning the question of God’s existance is unknowable to me with the information that I have – therefore I am an atheist.

or..

I do not have the knowledge or information necessary that would lead me to the belief in the existance of God (or gods or the Supernatural), therefore I do not believe. My atheism is a function of my agnosticism.

Then again, neither would exactly be my first choice if I had to label myself.

wise_man on July 2, 2008 at 10:10 PM
MadisonConservative on July 2, 2008 at 10:16 PM

I shall gladly take both of your advice(s) in this one case. ;-)

I used to know a guy named Goetze…. He was no competition for Cary Grant, but not a grotesque either…. So I guess that isn’t what you are talking about.

And I also suppose that Tubgirl is neither a svelte nymphet at her bath, nor an affectionate nickname for Miss Harriet Tubman.

It is damned uncomfortable….
LegendHasIt on July 2, 2008 at 7:49 PM

Well, imagine that.

We have the usual atheists and homosexuals arguing a definition again. (And although no one’s specifically mentioned it in this discussion, I assume most of them are also vegetarians; for some bizarre reason that seems to be the trifecta of liberal “lifestyle” choices.)

I know this is evil incarnate to the subjectivist mindset, but let’s quit making fun of the retards for a second and REALLY torture them with something called linear logic.

What if (horror of horrors!) waterboarding isn’t just a less-than-polite reception for our “guests” in Gitmo? What if we actually DO decide to call it “torture?”

What then?

So the white-loafered, religiously intolerant and/or non-carnivorous among us will whine about it…

Seriously, what difference could it possibly make?

Liberals offer no alternative suggestions; ever. All they ever do is screech about how incredibly much more they CARE about everything than we do.

When we let liberals set up the discussion on those terms; they can never lose. We can never, ever, not in a million years prove that they don’t care.

But if we refuse to argue on those terms, liberals have nothing else. Nothing.

MB4 on July 2, 2008 at 9:53 PM

How could I forget? He also apparently told at least one of His disciples (cf. Luke 4) that He was personally tempted by the devil. Well, whaddya think? Was this man, so praised as a great thinker and teacher by so many who nevertheless don’t believe Him to be God, actually insane in your opinion?

I say “your opinion” of course because what you believe or don’t (or what I believe or don’t for that matter), doesn’t change the truth in the slightest.

And, just by the way? My God DOES have legs. Two Jewish and presumably hairy legs, up there in Heaven. :)

LegendHasIt on July 2, 2008 at 9:58 PM

DON’T. JUST DON’T.

However, there is a kind of moral equivalence implied by use of the same word to describe both actions. I take it that Hitchens would say something like “waterboarding is unacceptably bad, but not as bad as other practices” which would save him from inconsistency but defeats the purpose by subjectivizing the definition of torture.

Given that the whole purpose of the procedure is to disorient the subject, his subjective judgment that it is torture remains unconvincing. Especially in light of the fact that he voluntarily underwent the procedure — twice! — it is hard to conclude that it should be categorically prohibited. In fact, having seen the video, I am slightly more inclined to approve of the procedure than I was before, provided that there are sufficient controls in place to avoid abuse.

I have no idea who those people? creatures? are.
And I must assume that I am the better off for it.
LegendHasIt on July 2, 2008 at 9:58 PM

Do. Not.

Just – walk away, and no one gets hurt. Just walk away.

Only young children who have been frightened by mean people and the addled believe in the Devil.

MB4 on July 2, 2008 at 9:53 PM

Jesus (an historical figure) said He saw Satan (aka the devil) fall from Heaven like lightning. Which was He, in your two-part classification opinion?

Someone tricked you into looking at Tubgirl and Goatse side by side?
Lehosh on July 2, 2008 at 9:49 PM

I have no idea who those people? creatures? are.
And I must assume that I am the better off for it.

Jaynie59 on July 2, 2008 at 8:56 PM

In my experience, most agnostics I have encountered are actually atheists, not believers, who claim agnosticism to gain an ‘upper hand’ in an argument.

Agnosticism is the cop out, a position which you do not have to intellectually defend. The agnostic claims ignorance assuming it will get them off the hook any time they are painted into a corner of reason.

God Himself is ridiculed every day, yet He’s not going anywhere.

Well of course your Invisible Man isn’t going anywhere. He has no legs!

Will see your Mark Twain though and raise you a Martin Luther and a St. Thomas More:

“The best way to drive out the devil,if he will not yield to texts of Scripture, is to jeer and flout him, for he cannot bear scorn.” –Luther

The devil…the prowde spirit…cannot endure to be mocked.” –More

inviolet on July 2, 2008 at 6:16 PM

Only young children who have been frightened by mean people and the addled believe in the Devil.

And as to long term psychological effects: I’ve seen movies and even single images that have haunted me more deeply and for longer.

LegendHasIt on July 2, 2008 at 7:49 PM

Someone tricked you into looking at Tubgirl and Goatse side by side?

Your lungs are higher than the heart. No water can make it up into them…

He made Mark Twain and gifted him with the wit to ridicule his creator.

::shrugs::

Fatal on July 2, 2008 at 6:12 PM

Is man one of God’s mistakes or is God one of man’s?

How awful for atheists looking death in the face, to have to deal emotionally with the fact that they think their existence is about to cease forever.

inviolet on July 2, 2008 at 6:07 PM

I was dead for billions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit.
- Mark Twain

Wow I thought they would be using a lot more water. That’s all it takes? It must be extremely uncomfortable. What was deal with the music?

ronsfi on July 2, 2008 at 9:20 PM

Loud and disorienting. Meant to unsettle whoever is going to get waterboarded.

MadisonConservative on July 2, 2008 at 7:33 PM

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again you can waterboard me for the security of America…