ChiCom tactics used at Gitmo?
posted at 11:53 am on July 2, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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The New York Times reports that a presentation at Guantanamo Bay on how to increase compliance from detainees on intel interrogations came directly from an analysis of Chinese Communist methods used during the Korean War to “brainwash” American POWs. Apparently the trainers who delivered the class had no awareness of the origin of their material; they developed it from the SERE training that the Pentagon created specifically to combat the Chinese techniques:
The military trainers who came to Guantánamo Bay in December 2002 based an entire interrogation class on a chart showing the effects of “coercive management techniques” for possible use on prisoners, including “sleep deprivation,” “prolonged constraint,” and “exposure.”
What the trainers did not say, and may not have known, was that their chart had been copied verbatim from a 1957 Air Force study of Chinese Communist techniques used during the Korean War to obtain confessions, many of them false, from American prisoners.
The attached documents, declassified and released by Congress, shows that the Gitmo briefings in fact did include the analysis by Alfred D. Biderman in 1957, then working as a sociologist for the Air Force. Most of the entries in Biderman’s chart seem innocuous, with techniques such as “Monotonous food”, “Threats of endless isolation and interrogation”, “confrontations”, and “occasional indulgences” given as methods of breaking down resistance to interrogators.
Others, however, are less innocuous. “Semi-starvation” and “exploitation of wounds” appear in both charts and would qualify as at least mistreatment and probably torture, under even the most restrictive definitions possible. “Preventing personal hygiene” and “Filthy, infested environment” would also count for mistreatment, although not torture. “Sleep deprivation” and “prolonged constraint” have already been discussed as a technique used at Gitmo and helped fuel the debate over the tactics used to gain intel at the facility several years ago.
The question is whether Biderman’s chart was used as a template for tactics at all, or whether it served as a conceptual look at techniques and their limits. The Times appears to be less clear on how the chart was used:
The documents released last month include an e-mail message from two SERE trainers reporting on a trip to Guantánamo from Dec. 29, 2002, to Jan. 4, 2003. Their purpose, the message said, was to present to interrogators “the theory and application of the physical pressures utilized during our training.”
The sessions included “an in-depth class on Biderman’s Principles,” the message said, referring to the chart from Mr. Biderman’s 1957 article. Versions of the same chart, often identified as “Biderman’s Chart of Coercion,” have circulated on anti-cult sites on the Web, where the methods are used to describe how cults control their members.
This material got presented, therefore, in an overview of what drove SERE, and the concepts used in training Americans to resist torture and mistreatment. This became important because the Gitmo interrogators saw evidence thatAQ detainees had received resistance training prior to their capture, and needed some indication of what that training may have prepared them to resist. The trainers noted in their overview that the individual physical pressures had to be evaulated and determined appropriate before implementation, but the overall point was to emphasize the total “captive environment”. The trainers also noted that the physical pressures actually mattered much less than the psychological pressures.
The question, now as before, is which of these techniques actually came into play, not whether they appeared on a chart in a classroom setting. According to the support materials provided by the Times and their actual reporting, it’s not clear that any of the objectionable techniques were used — although with the use of waterboarding an established fact (and used prior to this briefing by SERE trainers), one can certainly assume that at least some of them did get used. That should be a matter for closed-session investigations by Congress and the DoD. Apparently, no one has found any evidence outside of this training briefing.
Update: The Times notes that the Biderman article title emphasizes “false” confessions, but I suspect that the Pentagon worried a lot more about preventing the release of real intelligence through POW interrogations. False confessions cause embarrassment, but the uncovering of factual intel costs lives and harms military objectives.
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Gitmo is the most scrutinized prison in the history of mankind.
let’s just keep throwing shit against the wall to see of we can get anything to stick though shall we?
TheBigOldDog on July 2, 2008 at 12:00 PM
the Left are planning on charging GW with war crimes over this stuff, question is when. they have a petition on democracy now I think
jp on July 2, 2008 at 12:02 PM
I wonder what they think about some of our own Soldiers that General Washington had hung for violations they committed then marched his troops around their bodies to see them……”impeach George Washington”
jp on July 2, 2008 at 12:03 PM
What disgusts me is all these people calling Gitmo a gulag.
If Gitmo is such a gulag, then how come the Red Cross has never come out and said “oh my god, these guys are getting abused,” and how come all the prisoners that get released are all at a healthy weight and show no evidence of injuries?
John McCain was so weak after his stay at the Hanoi Hilton that I think he had trouble walking off the plane.
Disgraceful!
Outlander on July 2, 2008 at 12:04 PM
So, is all the stuff I’ve read about how the detainees get treated lies? They don’t have halal food? They don’t have rec centers? They aren’t allowed to pray as they see fit and their Quran’s aren’t treated as holy books ought to be?
They can’t communicate with each other? They don’t have clean, hygenic accomidations?
Which is the real Gitmo? The one I’ve read about or the one where Chicom methods are used (maybe) to “brainwash” the inmates?
VolMagic on July 2, 2008 at 12:08 PM
Well if they were trying to brainwash them, they did a pretty crappy job, considering how many Gitmo release-ees went back to Iraq to kill people.
jimmy the notable on July 2, 2008 at 12:09 PM
I’m sorry, did I miss the part about providing the Qur’an and time to pray………..?
Seven Percent Solution on July 2, 2008 at 12:10 PM
Will they be happy when the only option is the “pretty please with a cherry on top” method of interrogation?
Brat on July 2, 2008 at 12:12 PM
I would be against this, but.
Don’t the “prisoners” at Gitmo gain an average of 20 pounds? And get better medical care than they did back in their bass-ackward countries?
It’s evident that we AREN’T following these techniques.
misterpeasea on July 2, 2008 at 12:15 PM
I think the members of the current admin. have more to fear from the world court than the Dems, jp.
I sure Prez Obama will send the bestest lawyers possible to defend any Bushie who ends up in jail in the Hague…
alphie on July 2, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Yeah, it’s a twofer for them. They get to paint the whole Gitmo charade as evidence of how evil the U.S. really is, and also get some payback for the Clinton impeachment. If Obama gets elected, expect it.
a capella on July 2, 2008 at 12:17 PM
The Left is also planning on “halting the rise of the oceans” and creating cars that run on Liberal Guilt.
A saying comes to mind, something about deficating in one hand and wishing in the other. I think it applies here.
VolMagic on July 2, 2008 at 12:20 PM
In that case, Jimmy Carter says that these techniques are alright…
right2bright on July 2, 2008 at 12:21 PM
That’ll do,
Timespig.wccawa on July 2, 2008 at 12:23 PM
I thought we got the monotonous food technique from the British. Plus, sleep deprivation as well, um, wait, that was the cushy chair. Never mind.
Dusty on July 2, 2008 at 12:33 PM
Gee, I guess we were just lucky on preventing those attacks that KSM’s “false” confessions led us to. Oh yeah, nevermind, those were just amateurs that we prevented from doing us no harm.
Rick on July 2, 2008 at 12:35 PM
Could have avoided tempting the traitors at the Times and encouraging the anarcho-socialist-hate America crowd by just shooting all “terrorists, saboteurs and spies” when caught, as the Geneva Conventions say can be done.
Any jihadis with real intel value could have been kept in a covert prison in Afghanistan, questioned by people who can keep their own mouths shut, (-are there any left in the intelligences services?-) and then shot.
The propaganada bonanza they have provided the loons of the world has more than negated any putative “intel” value.
profitsbeard on July 2, 2008 at 12:37 PM
I am sure the “Threats of endless isolation and interrogation” came from 1930’s Hollywood B-movie directors. The Chi-Coms just pirated it, like they do movies now.
Dusty on July 2, 2008 at 12:37 PM
The occasional indulgences is a severely minimized technique taken right from the lefty liberal political playbook.
Dusty on July 2, 2008 at 12:41 PM
The focus of the Red Cross in any detention situation is the well-being of the prisoners. Their policy is not to confront the government that is running the prison camp publicly because they are afraid they’d lose access to the prisoners then.
Back in 2004 the NY Times obtained a confidential Red Cross memo that detailed detainee abuse at Guantanamo.
In its response, the Red Cross acknowledged that the documents were real and said that they were “disturbed to see their reports made public.” Again, it’s because their focus is not to condemn America (or China, or Saudi Arabia, or North Korea or any other countries where torture is normal policy) but “to protect the lives and dignity of victims of war and internal violence worldwide.”
So to recap:
Just because the Red Cross is not complaining doesn’t mean there is no abuse
The Red Cross, as it turns out, did complain, just not publicly
And as an exit thought, let me refer you to this little bit of historical trivia involving another prison camp.
factoid on July 2, 2008 at 12:53 PM
That says it all.
Johan Klaus on July 2, 2008 at 12:59 PM
Amen
Johan Klaus on July 2, 2008 at 1:03 PM
Maybe we can get the NYT to run some Maoist self-criticism sessions at Gitmo instead if they’re so worried?
andycanuck on July 2, 2008 at 1:05 PM
So your saying the “terrorists, saboteurs and spies” should have been shot instead of being sent to GITMO?
Johan Klaus on July 2, 2008 at 1:09 PM
factoid on July 2, 2008 at 12:53 PM
You should read what you link, silly.
The International Commision of the Red Cross is not the same of the American Red Cross. But whatever. Plus, I’d like to know their idea of what “psycological torute” is.
VolMagic on July 2, 2008 at 1:17 PM
factoid on July 2, 2008 at 12:53 PM
Oh, and you last link is very intriguing. Is Gitmo a concentration camp? Are the Bushies Nazis? Is that what you’re saying? Or are you just pointing out that the ICRC cannot always be trusted? Funny, that.
VolMagic on July 2, 2008 at 1:19 PM
Gee, factoid, you might have paid more attention in the last few years. Shortly after Gitmo was established, an initial ICRC delegation visit led to (by ICRC standards and principles, among which you correctly point out are “confidentiality”) an outrageous public criticism by a delegation member. The ICRC moved very quickly to clean up the mess (the guy who made the public amends was someone I used to deal with in a job where lots of taxpayer money was provided to the ICRC to provide humanitarian relief in certain war zones).
As a follow-up, in 2004 (I believe, not certain), in an even more serious breach of core ICRC policy, a draft report of an ICRC inspection of a Coalition detention facility in Iraq was leaked. As usual, the US response was flaccid – we should have made a huge deal out of it, humiliated the ICRC and suspended their access until heads rolled and a grovelling apology was received.
That even the ICRC has, to some degree, gone off the rails post-9/11 is a chilling measure of the moral insanity that has gripped the west the last few years. Gitmo ranks among the world’s top 5% of humane and civilized detention facilities on Earth, in all human history (get out a bit more and consider what most of the world is like if you don’t instantly understand that assertion), it’s legal basis is unimpeachable (the Conventions and other agreements in current form simply do not account for this sort of lawless individual, notwithstanding the ICRC’s arrogant and baseless claims), and there is some reason to think it has achieved its purposes of obtaining information to take down terror networks and removing enemies from the field of action.
Sadly, Gitmo is a leading victim of the administration’s refusal to explain, educate, and defend well-founded actions and policies. And as with other such failures (maintaining the offensive initiative, pre-emption, the implications of unavoidably limited intelligence, etc.), the damage is not just to Bush’s current image, but far more importantly to critical policy options and freedom of maneuver for future decision makers.
IceCold on July 2, 2008 at 1:28 PM
Huh? Where am I saying that? Are you confusing me with someone else?
If you must know, though, I believe that terrorists, saboteurs and spies should be tried in a court of law and, if found guilty, should be locked up for a long time. You know, like the people who tried to blow up the World Trade Center the first time around, or the Millennium bomber or the people who blew up the African embassies.
factoid on July 2, 2008 at 1:32 PM
hahahahahahahahahahahahahah XD
Man, are you for real? XD
So, do people still read/believe the New York Times when they come out with articles like this?
I mean seriously, how many body blows to their credibility does it take for people to stop believing?
apollyonbob on July 2, 2008 at 1:36 PM
Yeah, exactly, whatever.
Why don’t you ask them. When you find out, do tell me as well. I have no idea what “psycological torute” is.
factoid on July 2, 2008 at 1:37 PM
See-BS Radio “News” has been flogging this “story” all day. They’re absolutely thrilled.
Del Dolemonte on July 2, 2008 at 1:44 PM
1) No, Guantanamo is most emphatically not a concentration camp. You should be ashamed for suggesting that.
2) No, President Bush and his allies (you don’t mind if I show some respect to these people and don’t call them “Bushies” like you do, do you?) are most emphatically not Nazis. Again, you should be ashamed for suggesting that.
3) Yes, your analysis is correct. I was pointing out that governments running prison camps often try to make the Red Cross believe that the prisoners are being treated humanely when they are not. Theresienstadt is probably the most glaring example that sometimes these governments succeed.
factoid on July 2, 2008 at 1:48 PM
factoid on July 2, 2008 at 1:37 PM
Well, you should have noted that it was the ICRC instead of the ARC. While it may not be the case in this instance, I find that organizations with an “I” in front of their acronym seem… unreliable. Several come to mind.
I wasn’t asking you. I was pointing out that the ICRC, per your link, was worried about “
psycological tortutepsychological torture” and I wonder what metrics they use on such pronouncement.Oh, you were just pointing out that my happy-fingers can’t spell properly all the time? Brilliant!
VolMagic on July 2, 2008 at 1:55 PM
So, in fact, number 1 and 2 are what you are suggesting. I mean, why would you put that link in this thread, other then to point out that the Bushies would trick the gullible ICRC into believeing that no Nazi-like torture was going on in Gitmo?
Or were you just “airing a theory?”
VolMagic on July 2, 2008 at 1:58 PM
Do you know much about this case? I ask because there were some serious consequences to this course of action, and I was wondering if you were aware of them.
VolMagic on July 2, 2008 at 2:04 PM
Yeah, that was a little cheap, but it was too hard to resist. Sorry.
It seems like I’m not needed for this debate. You are perfectly capable of making not just your own case but also that of an imaginary opponent. What I say doesn’t even matter to you, apparently.
factoid on July 2, 2008 at 2:06 PM
factoid on July 2, 2008 at 2:06 PM
Well, facty, if we were discussing a post on how governments have tricked international aid groups into believing they were abiding by the Geneva Conventions, then that link would be illuminating. As it is, it appears that the link you provided, in this context, was aimed at saying something like, “Hey, the Nazi’s got away with it. How are we sure the Bushies aren’t getting away with it now.”
That’s how I took it, anyways. You then replied by saying that isn’t what you were doing followed by your explination of what you were doing, i.e. point 3.
Again, in this context, point 3 indicates to me that you think the Bush govt. is engaging in this type of action. In case you weren’t, I added the “Or are you just ‘airing a theory’” a la Sullivan.
I can read your words as just “airing a theory” or as a condemnation of the Bush govt.’s handeling of Gitmo. It is still not clear to me what you meant.
VolMagic on July 2, 2008 at 2:15 PM
I don’t know much about this case. Perhaps you would like to tell me about those serious consequences.
factoid on July 2, 2008 at 2:39 PM
factoid on July 2, 2008 at 2:39 PM
Verily.
Problem 1: The WTC bombing took place. Despite having an inside informant and having tracked the suspected terrorists for years previous to the event, the FBI did not move until after the attack took place. Big problem.
Problem 2: Exculpatory evidence. Handing sensitive information to the defense in turns allows the defendants to figure out how that information was gathered, thus burning sources and damaging intel operations.
Problem 3: Lynne Stewart passed instruction from Abdel Rahman to EIJ. While he was in custody and serving time.
Problem 4: There have been several terrorist activities aimed at gaining the freedom of the blind sheik.
Problem 5: Coordinating CIA and FBI is a tricky thing, and neither operates, always, under the assumption that the culmination of their efforts will be a trial. Thus, if we were to try all terrorists, spies, and saboteurs, we would have to put extraordinary restraints on those agencies. (Yes, the FBI does work under strict guildlines, as it should, but foreign nationals who have malicious intentions don’t qualify, in my book, as U.S. citizens).
These and others problems are avilable in Andy McCarthy’s great book, Willful Blindness. And that’s just the WTC bombers. Prosecuting all the detainees at Gitmo would pose quite a different challenge.
VolMagic on July 2, 2008 at 3:14 PM
Huh? Where am I saying that? Are you confusing me with someone else?
Well if you do not want them locked up in Gitmo, then we should just follow the Geneve Convention and shoot them.
Johan Klaus on July 2, 2008 at 4:43 PM
I’d have a comment on this if I could find it in myself to care in the least about what is done to the subhuman scum vermin at GITMO.
However, since I don’t, I’ll just repeat what I always say when asked about my position on “torture” of animals with no rights under any convention known to man:
Red is positive, black is negative. Now get to it. And can I have video, please?
Misha I on July 2, 2008 at 6:14 PM
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