Obama flips again: gay marriage
posted at 8:51 am on July 1, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Barack Obama has reversed himself yet again, but this time he has done a double backflip with a half-twist to the Left. After previously saying he opposed gay marriage and that he respected the rights of states to set conditions for marriage, Obama has now said that he opposes California’s initiative to ban gay marriage — and that he would use federal law to end such efforts:
Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, who previously said the issue of gay marriage should be left up to each state, has announced his opposition to a California ballot measure that would ban same-sex marriages.
In a letter to the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club read Sunday at the group’s annual Pride Breakfast in San Francisco, the Illinois senator said he supports extending “fully equal rights and benefits to same-sex couples under both state and federal law.”
“And that is why I oppose the divisive and discriminatory efforts to amend the California Constitution, and similar efforts to amend the U.S. Constitution or those of other states,” Obama wrote.
Obama had previously said he opposes same-sex marriage but that each state should make its own decision.
His letter to the Alice B. Toklas GLBT Democratic Club will effectively toss traditional marriage under the same bus as his opposition to FISA reform and his pledge for public financing. However, his allies on the Left will enjoy the reversal on this position much more than they did with his other flip-flops, even if they have to wonder how long this new position will last.
Once again, voters have to ask themselves what Obama is thinking. I’m no big fan of the gay-marriage ban, but we’re getting past the point of the issues themselves and what all of these reversals mean about the candidate. There are only three possibilities for why Barack Obama has had to change his mind on almost every policy he has mentioned in this campaign:
- He’s a liar who says what each audience wants to hear.
- The election debate has changed his perspective on every issue.
- He has no clue on any of the issues.
Only the second reflects any positive quality, that of open-mindedness, but it also carries with it the underlying unreadiness of a man who has only three years of national political experience for the Presidency. Assuming the best of intentions, Obama has no firm stands on any principle or policy. That doesn’t even recommend Obama as a Senator, let alone a President. If option 2 is the case, he needs to set out this election while he makes up his mind.
The most disturbing aspect of this new reversal is Obama’s sudden abandonment of federalism. What happened to letting California decide on the public recognition of marriage? This twist reveals a little more of what we can expect from a President Obama — a further aggrandizing of power in Washington DC and a reduction of the scope of authority for state and local communities.
Rumor has Team Obama bolstering its outreach to evangelicals. How long before this reversal gets reversed?
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So, John McCain isn’t going to be Bush’s third term… Obama is??
Mazztek on July 1, 2008 at 11:08 AM
Don’t worry. Lawyers are going to take away the right of the citizens to decide. The debate is moot.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 1, 2008 at 11:12 AM
some pigs ARE more equal than others…
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 11:14 AM
Good grief! They voted to place that Proposition on the ballot once already. Now the ACLU decides the will of the people doesnt matter? Unreal!
becki51758 on July 1, 2008 at 11:17 AM
Looks like Obama’s Teflon strategy is working great.
The only people who notice is the far right…and it’s driving them crazy…no smear will stick to him.
alphie on July 1, 2008 at 11:30 AM
He’s a liar who says what each audience wants to hear.
The election debate has changed his perspective on every issue.
He has no clue on any of the issues.
Thanks Ed!
You are on target as usual!
That clearly and concisely characterizes the Obama campaign.
Al Gore and John Kerry had the same issues in past elections. A majority of American Voters knew what they were looking at and strongly rejected philosophical BS.
Lets hope that American Voters can see through the smoke and Mirrors in November!
old trooper on July 1, 2008 at 11:31 AM
I know where Obama got his bus.
CK MacLeod on July 1, 2008 at 11:34 AM
yeah cause left-wingers are uneducated and easily led…you’ve found your MAHDI!!
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 11:37 AM
Oddly enough, Hillary didn’t suffer from that malady. She truly was the perfect Dem. nominee for these times. But now racial politics likely takes both her and Obama out in one fell swoop.
It’s important not to overlook the good things in life when they happen :)
JiangxiDad on July 1, 2008 at 11:40 AM
You confuse the emotions shown here with being driven crazy. I can assure you, there’s no frustration with Mr. Obama. It’s pure glee.
As for nothing sticking, we shall see. It’s not like you own the media 100% anymore :)
JiangxiDad on July 1, 2008 at 11:44 AM
real intelligent, son
mymanpotsandpans on July 1, 2008 at 11:45 AM
I don’t know, right4…I just don’t think I need a daily outrage to get through my day.
The people who do have to understand whatever phony daily scandals they come up with will be ignored by the rest of America.
alphie on July 1, 2008 at 11:45 AM
look the bottom line is the left doesn’t care what Obama says or does…he’s their man…their savior.
logic, truth, etc. don’t matter…they know he’ll take huge steps to socialize this country…and after him the USA will become the USSA…
and thats all that matters to them…oh and yeah they’ll really stick it to the christians!!
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 11:47 AM
Oh, the Troll is here! – please don’t feed the Troll
Branch Rickey on July 1, 2008 at 11:49 AM
He must have a gelatinous spine to withstand the strain of so many flip-flops.
LimeyGeek on July 1, 2008 at 11:51 AM
This post is a stretch. Bambi did not say he would use federal law to stop California from deciding the issue for itself. The reference to federal law did not imply a lack of federalism.
tommylotto on July 1, 2008 at 11:57 AM
I would suggest the right read “The Little Boy Who Cried Wolf” to understand why nobody is listening to them anymore…
alphie on July 1, 2008 at 12:01 PM
Tainting a fine post with stupid, again.
Squid Shark on July 1, 2008 at 12:05 PM
This I can agree with. Slightly.
Squid Shark on July 1, 2008 at 12:06 PM
Who is “nobody?”
JiangxiDad on July 1, 2008 at 12:09 PM
Maybe Obama’s new pro-gay-marriage view is why Obama avoided the Chicago Gay Pride parade the other day, even though he was in Chicago, went to the gym, played basketball, got a haircut, etc. He wants to get the issue without without the images. He even states his opposition to the California amendment through a letter and through his wife’s speaking. Still no image of him saying any of it.
ForNow on July 1, 2008 at 12:16 PM
Gumby is bending himself to which ever direction he needs to, when he needs to. I am sure he will be a real tough negotiator when he meets with The Whackjob in Iran and Chavez in Venezuala.
Is there anything in Barry’s books about how he excelled at the limbo?
Mallard T. Drake on July 1, 2008 at 12:17 PM
I’m not an Obama fan, but this post is being pretty disingenuous. It may be stretching the limits of nuance, but he can consistently believe:
1) That gay marriage should be left to the states.
2) That gay marriage, generally, is not something he supports.
3) That a constitutional amendment to prohibit gay marriage is generally a bad idea (even at the state level).
Come on, focus on real inconsistencies. This isn’t one.
DaveS on July 1, 2008 at 12:17 PM
Obama has no principles. He stands for nothing. I actually now think the Clintons had more spine than this man.
Chuck Schick on July 1, 2008 at 12:18 PM
So do you think the rest of the MSM will report this latest flip-flop? I doubt it.
JeffinSac on July 1, 2008 at 12:20 PM
No. It doesn’t mention anything about “clinging”.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 1, 2008 at 12:33 PM
Well which is it? If you weren’t so obviously homophobic you might have taken the time to get this right. No wonder Lesbians, Gays, Bi-sexuals and Transgendered persons are so emotionally unstable: people like you can’t even get the name of their organization right!
Leave LGBT persons alone!!! Or at least get their names right!!!
Akzed on July 1, 2008 at 12:33 PM
Thanks! There are many, if not most, conservative Republicans that are rational. It’s the vocal few who, many of whom you’ll see right here at HotAir, (and most of whom can hold a rational discussion…most, not all) continually want what’s best for themselves alone, not for the nation.
True. And because I’m gay, they may be effective pushing through an agenda that I, and so many like me, may not want. Again, a democracy is for the majority. This nation doesn’t guarantee you’ll get everything you want.
Thanks for that…The Constitution is pretty clear.
I’ll dig ‘em up for ya…Tell me, how many gay people do you know personally? Not just someone at work, or a freind of a friend, but a gay person you would call “friend”…how many?
JetBoy on July 1, 2008 at 12:41 PM
Is that a sandwich?
LimeyGeek on July 1, 2008 at 12:42 PM
I think he means MSNBC
saus on July 1, 2008 at 12:55 PM
I have some friends who used to think like right4life…all righteous about how homosexuality was demonic.
Then, they came to a party I threw last 4th of July.
A gay couple that I know were also here (males, at that, gasp!)
These friends have 4 children. All terrified of what they might encounter when the ‘gays’ arrived.
Everyone had a fantastic day. The family of 6 spent time and got to know this gay couple.
There minds are changed now. They know that gay people are not demonic.
I’m happy that some eyes were opened and some hate was removed from some peoples’ hearts.
I can only hope that this is happening all over the world.
Jesus Christ did not teach hate. Love is all powerful!
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 12:59 PM
Thank you, we are all now on major Troll Alert. I hate to have to say that, but there we are.
BigD on July 1, 2008 at 1:04 PM
Why? I don’t understand your post?
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 1:05 PM
Very true. When I came out to my friends, and eventually they met my gay friends, they had their eyes and minds open. That not all gays are those one would see on floats at pride parades, or all “swishy”, or leather fetishists who hang out (pardon the pun) at Folsom Street fairs.
Just regular guys.
And what the folks who demonize gays, the Evangelican/fundamentalists bible thumpers, seem to forget is that Jesus never once mentioned homosexuality.
JetBoy on July 1, 2008 at 1:07 PM
You mean the two Gays didn’t hypnotize the kids into the gay community. They didn’t “lure” others into the demonic world of the gay lifestyles…impossible, we know that the gays are out there waiting to trap us, prey on the weak. I can see you already have fallen for the ol’ “they are just like us” line.
right4life is only for his definition of life…next thing you know someone is going to say that Jesus loved whores, he will never believe that one.
right2bright on July 1, 2008 at 1:08 PM
Are you calling me a troll? Or that the trolls will come out now…?
JetBoy on July 1, 2008 at 1:09 PM
again you prove yourself a stupid lyin piece of trash.
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:13 PM
How wondrously irrelevant, except to the extent that it plays into the hands of those who try to paint opponents of court-led re-definition of marriage as homophobes.
If gay marriage advocates were asking for certificates of good citizenship or just for civil unions, opposition to their agenda would be muted. That’s not what they’re currently asking for: They want a short cut to societal approval that places same sex marriage within currently existing law governing marriage. Even then, if there was any reason to believe that the movement and the ramifications of the re-definition would stop there, opposition would be less important. One could almost imagine the institution of marriage accepting a few probably unqualified members. But it never stops there – and for many if not most of those pushing gay marriage, the happy couples are completely secondary to a larger agenda aimed at bullying social conservatives right out of the new “mainstream.”
CK MacLeod on July 1, 2008 at 1:13 PM
to you left-wing wackos ‘demonizing’ is repeating what the bible says…so much for freedom of speech/religion.
and implementing a gay sharia is what you and your ‘friends’ are all about.
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:14 PM
JetBoy on July 1, 2008 at 1:07 PM
They also fail to realize that one’s relationship with Jesus/God is personal. And that Jesus did not cast stones as they think they should be doing. It’s sad really.
Who was it that said, “I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians.” ??
I forget who said it, but I sure relate to it, when it comes to hateful people using Christ’s name to perpetuate hate.
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 1:14 PM
never said it was ‘demonic’ you liar.
it is sinful, and you want to silence anyone from being able to even say that.
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:15 PM
and He didn’t say go ahead and sin all ya want..
but you would silence Him if He was walking the earth today…
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:16 PM
why don’t you ‘dig em up’ before I tell you huh??
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:16 PM
CK MacLeod on July 1, 2008 at 1:13 PM
Is marriage a legal thing, or a religious one?
I understand if your church does not want to condone or perform these marriages.
I don’t see what the state has to do with it.
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 1:17 PM
notice how the pro-gay left-wing wackos come in and spew their vitriol, lies and hatred…and then accuse any who oppose them of ‘hatred’.
its called projection.
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:17 PM
the thread was fine until trolls like you came in. moron.
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:18 PM
So nobody has a problem with the fact that he didn’t actually “flip-flop” on anything?
DaveS on July 1, 2008 at 1:19 PM
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:15 PM
Well, a definition of sinful is wicked. What the heck is the difference?
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 1:19 PM
Actually, I was calling you a troll. Don’t take it personally.
BigD on July 1, 2008 at 1:19 PM
You talk a good game of people lying. And there you go…with a few whoppers of your own as usual.
I’m not a left-winger. I’m a registered Republican who is also very conservative.
I’m Catholic, go to Mass every Sunday, so the bible to me isn’t something to be demonized…just your self-serving interpretation of the bible.
And, this may come as a surprise, but neither me, nor any of my gay friends, are looking for implimenting some gay sharia as you call it.
JetBoy on July 1, 2008 at 1:19 PM
but its OK for you to demonize christians…
some pigs are more equal than others….
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:19 PM
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:16 PM
Who said I was trying to SILENCE anybody???
I’d never do that. You can spew your hate until your heart is content. Scream it from the mountaintops. What do I care what you say?
I’m not trying to silence anybody.
Who’s the liar?
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 1:20 PM
back it up fat boy.
oh you mean repeating what it really says?? you just want to silence people like me, that you disagree with. that you hate because they don’t approve of your lifestyle.
then you would oppose gay marriage. but you don’t. and that is the bottom line of gay marriage. to force any who disagree to ‘approve’ or face legal consequences.
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Too many of you people are really throwing this “troll” thing around a lot lately. And it’s usually thrown out at people you simply disagree with.
I’ve been posting regularly here for over 2 years. Made some allies, and for sure there’s some who just don’t like me.
That makes me a troll, huh?
JetBoy on July 1, 2008 at 1:22 PM
ah you are. its like saying you’re not ‘personally’ opposed to abortion BUT its ok
the gay marriage you support will result in the silencing of christians who disagree with it. there are many cases already out there…but you’re too much of a hate-filled liar to care. all that matters to you is silencing those who you disagree with.
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:23 PM
yep.
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:23 PM
sinful is wicked, but you don’t have to be possessed by a demon to sin…duhhhh
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM
Not only are you hateful, but you’re dense, too?
I’m not trying to silence anyone!
Helloooo
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM
Hey, bridgetown….
Time to let right4life rant on….he’s one of those who only wants to cause trouble and get ya angry. The perfect definition of a troll.
And in other posts on gay subjects, he’s really goes insane. I’m talking “Wesboro Baptist” Phelps family insane.
He’s incapable of listening to reason.
JetBoy on July 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM
Okay, whatever. Just put in ’sinful’ whereever I typed the word ‘demonic’.
That should lower your blood pressure….a little.
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 1:26 PM
you’re incapable of tolerating anyone who disagrees. you’re the one who goes crazy, because you can’t debate the issues…all you can do is accuse those who disagree of hatred and intolerance..
when you are the hateful and intolerant one…and a liar too…where are those stats??
lying troll
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:27 PM
oh my blood pressure is fine…yours goes up whenever someone says something you cannot refute, but disagree with.
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:27 PM
HELLO…yes you are. just because you’re too stupid to realize it or care doesn’t matter.
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:28 PM
“Blessed Be The Peacemakers”
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 1:28 PM
Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:30 PM
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:27 PM
LoL, Actually, I have low blood pressure naturally.
And I’ve known your kind plenty. Pretty used to it. Doesn’t bug me much, but if there ever is a window to open a heart and insert love, I seek the window.
You can disagree all you want. It’d be nice if you could be civil about it. But, I’m sure I’ll be called a Liar again. So be it.
Party on, wayne.
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 1:30 PM
Not gonna play the scripture quote game. Anything and everything is in the bible and Any angle can be argued using the bible. It’s all in there, so the throwing of the quotes doesn’t make a damn.
The Bridge is what I’m after.
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 1:32 PM
You can say that again.
But maybe one day I’ll break him down.
LoL (ducking)
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 1:33 PM
Actually, I was calling you a troll. Don’t take it personally.
BigD on July 1, 2008 at 1:19 PM
Not sure who “you people” is but it’s the second time today you made a generalized swipe at HA readers. That is certainly characteristic of a troll. So is measuring “allies” and “people who don’t like me.”
That’s it for me on this thread.
BigD on July 1, 2008 at 1:35 PM
Where exactly is this?
drjohn on July 1, 2008 at 1:37 PM
Look, I think you probably mean well, but you seem pretty dense about this: Whether or not I belong to a church is irrelevant. If your church or club or circle of friends want to hold a gala celebration every time two (or however many) of your gay members declare themselves “married,” more power to you. The people who brought the state into this are the gay marriage advocates who, through the courts, are seeking a re-definition of settled law governing marriage, with inevitable effects throughout society that they’d rather not recognize: It’s much easier to assume that all gay people are on their side, squelch dissent, and accuse everyone on the other side of being homophobic.
PS to DaveS – you were already answered, and your effort to extricate BO from yet another act of opportunistic hypocrisy is ludicrous. He pretended to be an opponent of same sex marriage when it suited him. Now it suits him to pretend to side with proponents. The only thing that makes his stated position and his letter to activists less than a flip flop is that no one has any reason any longer to believe that he stands by any of his positions.
CK MacLeod on July 1, 2008 at 1:40 PM
Obama is bi-issual: he can switch hit, go either way, AC/DC…
ParisParamus on July 1, 2008 at 1:47 PM
just out of curiosity, what is ‘my kind’…is that like ‘you people’??
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:49 PM
Yes, Obama announced that he was supporting “faith-based” programs* and his campaign is conducting 1000 meetings with the religious right.** So he threw them a bone and now he’s throwing a bone to the left to keep them happy.
This is part of the mass marketing of Obama as a moderate. It’s a tightrope, and he’s playing mostly to the right, with today’s exception. Yet, notice how the left-wing has been responding recently to his reversals.
The response of the left-wing blogs is significant. First, there was a huge outcry for four days, and then—so much silence. My guess is that the Obama campaign had some back room meetings, and leftwing blog owners have been quietly circulating backdoor reassurances to their readers.
One way to spot the cooperation is to observe leftwing bookmarking patterns at sites such as del.icio.us. Known Left-wing members first linked to protest articles on campaign finance. After a few days. they entirely stopped linking. Now we have their onslaught of links to articles extolling Obama’s conservatism, religious faith or moderate views–yet, most of their links include no comments complaining, just comments directing readers to consider “what a moderate Obama is”–
Each of these link campaigns are co-ordinated with facebook, twitter, e-groups and the rest of Obama’s incredible online social network. ***
This guys, is a co-ordinated, micro-managed campaign, using an army of online volunteers. Each time Obama shifts tactics and message,his online army sends the same messege as a huge, monolithic group.
Conservatives and moderates need to realize a political reality. Millions of our youth are not going to visit and read conservative/moderate sites. Not at present, at any rate. They have been recruited online and taken through an online, Maoist style-”re-education” form of training.
We will have to go to them; that means contributing at sites where they hang out and co-ordinating mass linking at the main bookmarking sites.
* Obama Supports Faith Based Programs http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080701/ap_on_el_pr/obama_faith;_ylt=ApRIW.T3QsMS5tiu0D9XE_sDW7oF
** I’ve wondered if this support of faith based groups is motivated by Obama’s support of outreach programs run by groups like Trinity Church. He might intend to channel federal money and support their way. A way to “empower” the Jeremiah Wrights. Imagine Wright with access to billions of federal aid to hand out.
***There has been a widespread campaign of hacking anti-Obama blogs, links and even the bookmarked link comments going on as well.
ragnell
Ragnell on July 1, 2008 at 1:50 PM
CK MacLeod on July 1, 2008 at 1:40 PM
No argument. I am dense sometimes.
I don’t think the courts should make this decision.
I’m all for the people voting on it, or it being left alone as well.
What I don’t get is why people are so up in arms about gay marriage. These ‘inevitable effects throughout society” that you speak of…I don’t get what those are. What are you talking about?
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 1:50 PM
its really simple, just get Jesus to change His word.
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:50 PM
Ragnell on July 1, 2008 at 1:50 PM
Wow. If true, that’s one organized campaign!
Gotta give credit where credit is due.
Even if it does stink.
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 1:52 PM
but you quoted scripture…its just bad when its scripture you don’t agree with.
then why did you quote the bible? and obviously its hard to get gay marriage, abortion, euthanasia, etc from the bible.
no you’re after a society where anything, and everything goes…where traditional christianity, is silenced, and ‘marriage’ is redefined to any 2 or more people doing whatever they want.
we’ve seen your ‘brave new world’ in Canada and Europe…no free speech, unless the gays approve.
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:53 PM
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:53 PM
I don’t want traditional christianity silenced!
And I don’t even care how marriage is defined by the state.
I just don’t see the big deal in letting gay people legally marry. That’s all.
Free speech for everybody! I don’t want to silence anybody. Ya gotta stop saying that I do.
And I don’t want anarchy either.
I’m just having a discussion…I think…
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 1:56 PM
thats exactly what gay marriage is going to do.
because it destroys traditional marriage, the family, and children…just as welfare has done for the black community, gay marriage will do for everyone else….enjoy the bitter fruits of broken lives, increased crime, jail, drug use, gangs, etc.
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:59 PM
And for the record. My own marriage is between my husband, God and I. The fact that it became a legal document was forced upon me, really. I was kind of bugged after the ceremony when my priest handed us a document and said, it’s not legal until you take it to the courthouse.
I was ignorant of what all that was about.
My number one deal was a spiritual union.
But I do like the tax break!
:)
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 2:00 PM
How is gay marriage going to silence anybody?
And I agree about welfare, what a disaster…
but why is gay marriage going to cause all of that? I don’t see it.
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 2:02 PM
The squeally pig gets the grease.
All the harder to catch.
maverick muse on July 1, 2008 at 2:04 PM
Some of the immediate ramifications – bearing on struggles regarding the schools and church-state cooperation on adoptions and so on – have already been mentioned in passing above. You might also try clicking on the link to the David Warren essay I excerpted on page 1 – just as a beginning.
I could give you several examples of how, especially in particularly liberal jurisdictions and then increasingly around the country (and the world), establishment of same sex marriage as equivalent to heterosexual marriage will be used to attack those who hold to the traditional view – which, by the way, I also happen to consider the correct view – to chase social conservatives and churches out of the public schools, out of adoptions and other child services, out of custody struggles, and on and on. Once you do a little more research into the issue, you will be able to start piling up the evidence for yourself.
It’s often said that marriage is merely a social construct (as if that’s a small thing). What is rarely recognized is that society is we know it is a marital construct. Marital relations – the basis of procreation and the organization of all kinship relations – are at the center of society, just as marriage is the fundamental social and economic unit of our civilization. We tamper with it our peril, and it’s an index of our alienation that we treat marriage as a lifestyle choice rather than literally a matter of life and death, most immediately for childbearing women, but for all of us.
We should be reinforcing the nuclear family, not undermining it – unless what we really do want is to replace it with an all-powerful state or anarchy.
CK MacLeod on July 1, 2008 at 2:09 PM
What will happen is that gays will become a protected class, and christians will have to either cease their activities that do not conform to what gays want, as in the catholic charities adoption agency in boston, or change their practices and beliefs to those approved by gays.
There would be no more debate on gay clergy, becasue it would be illegal not to have gay clergy. As in Canada, gayness would become a protected class, covered by ‘hate crimes’ and any speech that any gay person disapproves of would be a crime.
We’ve seen it in Canada and Europe. and there is no reason to believe its not going to happen here.
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 2:11 PM
It’s not a secret. The Obama campaign calls it micro-targeting. Dozens of online tech articles praise the “social networking” strategy. I can post a few if you want to read them.
If we don’t mount a counter-campaign, radicalism will control the 18-30 crowd for a long time. At present, I don’t know if this strategy will dominate the over 30 demographic for this election, or not. But, it dominates the under-30 crowd by a landslide. That’s how they get their “news” information and opinions. Once converted, they act as one gigantic tech mob. Dissention is punished by that bugaboo of youth angst, social exile.
Ragnell on July 1, 2008 at 2:13 PM
Now, I can start to wrap my head around your arguments.
Thank You!
I can’t take it when everything is wrapped up in a package of Sinners Going To Hell!
I’m gonna shut up now and look further into what you guys have posted at 2.09 and 2.11
Why, though, are christians also not a protected class if this is happening?
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 2:14 PM
link
In our judgment, it is difficult to imagine that a lengthy, highly visible, and ultimately successful campaign to persuade Dutch citizens that marriage is not connected to parenthood and that marriage and cohabitation are equally valid ‘lifestyle choices’ has not had serious social consequences….
There are undoubtedly other factors that have contributed to the decline of the institution of marriage in our country. Further scientific research is needed to establish the relative importance of all these factors. At the same time, we wish to note that enough evidence of marital decline already exists to raise serious concerns about the wisdom of the efforts to deconstruct marriage in its traditional form.
link
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 2:15 PM
I’m thinking that by allowing Divorce, we screwed up traditional marriage.
bridgetown on July 1, 2008 at 2:17 PM
Been there. Done that. It’s a generational thing, boy. Wait a few decades and note well how the tolerance for good intentions mutate into abusive gay sharia. Gays depose straights; not outright at first, but definitely outright in time. Gay rights are extremely radical and tied into the most vicious of marxist revolutionaries who themselves are without tolerance for straights. Most straights didn’t feel any compulsion one way or the other about gays until the gays burnt them. Janet Reno makes a policy example.
maverick muse on July 1, 2008 at 2:18 PM
He never set the preconditions you claim in the opening post. He’s said that he would support a state’s right to legalize gay marriage, not to ban it. There’s no position change here.
Typhonsentra on July 1, 2008 at 2:19 PM
thats a good question…muslims are a protected class…and it will be interesting to see what happens when islam and gays clash, although I haven’t heard of any yet…
the only answer I can come up with is christians are diskliked in the elite circles of government, media, academia etc….
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 2:23 PM
not divorce per say..but no fault…yes.
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 2:24 PM
Typhonsentra, just Google Barack Obama gay marriage, and you’ll find his past claims to support traditional marriage against gay marriage. At this point, to believe that he hasn’t flipped, you’ll have to re-define the word “support.” He supports court re-definition of marriage to include gay marriage. He opposes simple laws that obviate the attempted re-definition, and he calls the effort to pass those laws “divisive and discriminatory.” As Rich Lowry put it before the letter on Proposition 8, Obama was already operationally pro-gay marriage even while he was pretending to be a traditionalist. Now the pretense is even more transparent. It’s like someone who claimed he “supported” the right to life announcing that he respected Roe v Wade and approved of state-supported abortion clinics. Maybe you can get your head around it, but to me it’s nonsense.
CK MacLeod on July 1, 2008 at 2:33 PM
Technically, CK, it’s accurate but in truth it’s a crock.
This is the usual Obamaspeak.
Massaging a position that allows you to be on both sides of the issue.
Obama stands for nothing.
drjohn on July 1, 2008 at 2:46 PM
Oh no! He has just let the cat out of the bag! No one on the devil’s side ever noticed that before! Now they’ll all be winning every argument! Woe is us!
He never mentioned buggering sheep either, but I think we know where He stands on that.
Akzed on July 1, 2008 at 3:02 PM
On gay marriage, Obama takes it both ways.
- The Cat
MirCat on July 1, 2008 at 3:41 PM
…because it [gay marriage] destroys traditional marriage, the family, and children…just as welfare has done for the black community, gay marriage will do for everyone else….enjoy the bitter fruits of broken lives, increased crime, jail, drug use, gangs, etc.
right4life on July 1, 2008 at 1:59 PM
Most moronic, uneducated, and just completely ridiculous statement evah!
Unreal. *shakes head*
JetBoy on July 1, 2008 at 3:56 PM
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