Eminent thinkers, from Tolstoy to contemporary philosophers like Martha Nussbaum and George Kateb…

What do eminent thinkers and philosophers have in common? Leaving aside George Kateb, who is just a name to me, how does Martha Nussbaum merit being called a philosopher? Really, in our time, every well-spoken piece of trash that blows into a coffee shop gets called a “philosopher.”

…have denounced patriotism on exactly those grounds: that it’s wrong to prefer one’s countrymen and -women to people in other lands

It’s wrong for whom? For everyone, at all times, in every situation? And it’s wrong with respect to what end, or in comparison to what?

As a thought-experiment, let’s suppose it’s simply wrong for the Americans to prefer their country and their countrymen to those elsewhere, and let’s pretend, therefore, that patriotism must be replaced by something else. Why the fvck do eminent thinkers suppose that patriotism’s replacement will be the universal love of mankind? Why will patriotism’s replacement not be the universal love of the tiny portion of mankind who have something better than sh1t for brains? I promise you, you eminent thinkers and other phony philosophers, that if I ever publicly abandon patriotism, you will not like the towering exclusivity of the love I will put in its place.

Thanks a lot. You’re why those people continue to harass everybody.

misterpeasea on June 29, 2008 at 6:40 PM

They’re not going to starve to death in silence whether I give them money or not. Or perhaps they will but I don’t really consider that a workable alternative.

Most were killed by natural transmission of European viral diseases long before they ever saw a white person and long before there was any organized military conflict. Hernando deSoto reported hundreds of villages along the Mississippi River in the 1540s. By the time of Lewis & Clark’s expedition, in 1804-1806, hardly any of those villages existed.

The natives had no immunity to viral diseases. For the most part they didn’t raise livestock, so there were no vectors of infection from animal hosts. The early French and Spanish explorers and traders carried smallpox, yellow fever and other viruses to the new world.

Now I will only give to homeless people in the street.

aengus on June 29, 2008 at 3:48 PM

Thanks a lot. You’re why those people continue to harass everybody.

Now I will only give to homeless people in the street.

aengus on June 29, 2008 at 3:48 PM

I only give them money if they are entertaining me (dnacing, singing, playing an instrument) then if they use it to buy booze or smack, then they at least earned it.

Beto Ochoa on June 29, 2008 at 3:34 PM

Oh okay. I used to give money to an African charity until I later found out some of the money they receive is siphoned off for Palestinian “aid” i.e. weapons. Now I will only give to homeless people in the street.

That would not be justice. It would just make for two poor, starving continents instead of one
aengus on June 29, 2008 at 2:13 PM

I agree. Just trying to show how ridiculous Beinart’s point was. If he feels so bad about Africa he’s free to send his own money.

It would only be justice if the EU gave up theirs. The europeans invaded and still occupy parts of Africa.

Beto Ochoa on June 29, 2008 at 1:47 PM

That would not be justice. It would just make for two poor, starving continents instead of one.

america does not have sins, this historical reevalution is wrong. I am glad my ancestors did what they did. All of it. Because if they didn’t America would not be the only world’s superpower. America would be nothing but a backwater small country with no say in the world. If we did not “exterminate” the Indians, “steal” land from Mexico, “practice” the “sin” of slavery etc. America would be a very different, smaller, less powerful place today.

I agree about the Indian wars and Mexico but you are wrong about slavery. Slavery did nothing to increase America’s place in the world. Slaves just ended up doing the work that their masters did not want to do/pay for themselves.

Slavery could still be going on in the world

Slavery is still going on in the world. There are more slaves today than were seized from Africa in four centuries of the trans-Atlantic slave trade. An article published in the National Geographic five years ago puts the global number at 27 million slaves worldwide.

If you were referring to the end of the trans-Atlantic slave trade that was due to the British Empire. In 1807 the Royal Navy announced that it would regard all slave ships as pirates, and thus they were liable to sinking and their crews to execution.

Giving away the federal budget to Africa would probably increase the net sum of justice and equality on the planet, after all.

It would only be justice if the EU gave up theirs. The europeans invaded and still occupy parts of Africa.

Giving away the federal budget to Africa would probably increase the net sum of justice and equality on the planet, after all.

Really? What would Mugabe do with his share of the federal budget given to Africa, to increase the sum of justice and equality on the planet?

There is something vaguely farcical about conservative panic over Mexican flags in Los Angeles when Irish flags have long festooned Boston’s streets on St. Patrick’s Day.

In an article that does a fair job, this is where I think his Freudian slip shows. He can’t see the distinction between a political demonstration and a holiday. There is nothing wrong about flying Mexican flags on say, Cinco de Mayo, but as a demonstration for illegal immigration, it’s a problem as it DOES reflect a fundamental disloyalty and lack of appreciation – even while the protesters enjoy the benefits or residing in the USA – the protest itself being one.

To most of us, patriotism comes naturally. To liberals, it doesn’t; in fact, they’re embarrassed by the whole concept and regard it as unenlightened, even atavistic. So for appearances’ sake they have to engage in some kind of tortured logic to arrive at something they can be comfortable calling “patriotism.”

Missy on June 28, 2008 at 10:59 PM

On target.

flenser on June 29, 2008 at 9:28 AM

You can ignore history all you want, there is a different between nationalism and patriotism. I am a patriot, I love my country and everything is stands for. I place my nation above alot of things, particularly while I still serve, but it does not come above G-d. In hypernationalism (like National Socialism) loyalty to the state replaces everything, including allegiance to family and G-d. This is of course a reverse of communism which stresses class loyalty over national loyalty. That is not what America stands for. Nationalism as opposed to patriotism also can inevitably lead to arguments about who are true citizens and who are not. Thankfully that is not really a problem here in the US, but it is a result of that type of jingoistic nationalism vice patriotism.

Ugly on June 29, 2008 at 12:31 AM

That’s a hell of a BirthDay, btw It’s my BirthDay today also. :)

What the left loves is not America and American ideals, but the leftist ideal of transforming the USA into something more like France

That’s too harsh on the French left, who may be be socialists but are at least pro-French socialists. In other words, they are nationalists.

By Peter Beinart,
..
Beinart is a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations

……”Smartest guy in the room”……..

McCain has bucked his side as well. He has refused to bash illegal immigrants.

Oh, never mind!
What a really dumb, discombobulated, piece of garbage this batman is!

Beinart, really does think, that this is the best dissertation he has ever written!!

He really does leave his bias – towards liberalism, globalism, and a one-world-government “controlled mindset” – naked as a baby’s bottom!!

….

Here’s another example of a really stupid discombobulated attempt at screwing your mind over with some supposedly “smart” insight:(emphasis mine)

Conservatives know America isn’t perfect, of course. But they grade on a curve.

Partly that’s because they generally take a dimmer view of human nature than do their counterparts on the left.

When evaluating America, they’re more likely to remember that for most of human history, tyranny has been the norm. By that standard, America looks pretty good.

Watch out!
Here’s the “poison” for your mind: “they take a dimmer view”…..!

This is so wrong on so many levels!!

EFFING BASTARD!!
We conservatives do not take a dimmer view of human nature!!

That is WHY, WE, celebrate and reinforce America’s value system because we truly COMPREHEND the corrupt tendencies within the nature of human beings!!

This evening, I was taken out for an early birthday dinner by my kids & my ex.

In the middle of dinner, I asked my ex what she thought about an Obama Presidency. She actually started clapping her hands, loudly, in Red Robin’s. Then she said the perfect VP would be Hillary and her and my daughter giggled at the thought.

IN THE PAST 6 MONTHS she has been both pro and anti: Oboma and Hillary.

She doesn’t really care. As long as one or both gets power.

I didn’t argue. lol why bother.

Ugly on June 29, 2008 at 12:31 AM

Congratulations on your divorce, Ugly, and Happy Birthday.

petefrt on June 29, 2008 at 9:51 AM

To them it is just another society to be conquered and subjegated.

Liberals may love America in part because it aspires to certain ideals, but if they love it only because it aspires to those ideals, then what they really love is the ideals, not America.

Leftists like to say they’re as patriotic as the rest of us. Back in the JFK days of classic liberalism, this was accurate enough. But not today. The core goal of the current leftist/progressive ideology is transformation from what we are and aspire to be to what leftists want us to be. What the left loves is not America and American ideals, but the leftist ideal of transforming the USA into something more like France, even though their socialist/collectivist/statist vision is directly antithetical to all American tradition.

If the Marxist left harbors any love for America itself, it’s only after the Great Transformation, rather than as now. When ‘patriotism’ can be used to describe their goal of deconstructing and replacing American values and institutions with their own, then subversion becomes patriotism. Thesis becomes antithesis. And words become meaningless.