The non-recession continues
posted at 8:58 am on June 27, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Almost no one has reported on a surprising announcement from the Bureau of Economic Statistics yesterday. While analysts keep talking about a recession, the GDP actually increased in the first quarter of 2008. The modest increase — 1% — doesn’t indicate a great deal of economic strength, but it also shows that we have yet to see even one quarter of decline, let alone the two consecutive quarters of negative growth that has traditionally defined recession:
Real gross domestic product — the output of goods and services produced by labor and property located in the United States — increased at an annual rate of 1.0 percent in the first quarter of 2008 (that is, from the fourth quarter to the first quarter), according to final estimates released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. In the fourth quarter, real GDP increased 0.6 percent.
The GDP estimates released today are based on more complete source data than were available for the preliminary estimates issued last month. In the preliminary estimates, the increase in real GDP was 0.9 percent …
A 1% annual growth rate won’t excite many people. It follows a quarter with 0.6% growth, making it the weakest two-quarter period in the last four years, as the chart demonstrates. However, this is hardly the worst economy we’ve seen in memory. The 2000-2001 recession and the damage done to the economy after 9/11 was far worse than what we see now. In fact, the slight rebound may indicate that the worst of the slowdown is over and that we may start seeing a return to the stronger growth we have experienced since 2003.
Remember this when politicians and the media talk about “the worst economy since the Great Depression”. When the real numbers come out, no one bothers to report them. The hyperbole serves them better than the truth.
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The recession will come, along with inflation, as Dems tighten the screws on our domestic energy production. Hard times ahead, unless we can break their grip.
petefrt on June 27, 2008 at 9:03 AM
This is just a diversion from the real issues facing Americans…….like hope and change.
subbottomfeeder on June 27, 2008 at 9:04 AM
Remember Clinton/Gore sixteen years ago?
“Everything that should be up is DOWN, & everything that should be down is UP!”
We’ll no doubt hear that
linelie from the Obamistas soon.jgapinoy on June 27, 2008 at 9:07 AM
Of course no one has reported on it - it wouldn’t be good for Michelle’s kids.
Think_b4_speaking on June 27, 2008 at 9:16 AM
Nationalize “big oil.” That’ll solve everything.
Akzed on June 27, 2008 at 9:20 AM
This is good news, but I don’t see how a recession’s still not coming. Our taxes are going up soon as the tax cuts are allowed to expire. Oil prices don’t look like they’re coming down for some time. And in the longer term, entitlements are still set to completely swallow the federal budget well within my lifetime. We’re still on a collision course.
aero on June 27, 2008 at 9:20 AM
Growth bias has been built into the GDP numbers for decades. Real GDP growth since 2000 has been negative, which matches the reality that most people can see around them.
The way the consumer price index has been calculated was changed in the 1980’s. If you calculate the CPI today the way it used to be calculated, you get a CPI closer to 12% rather than the government’s official figure of 4%. When you go out to buy stuff, which figure seems closer to reality to you?
You can either believe the governments figures, or open your eyes.
dave742 on June 27, 2008 at 9:20 AM
Economists have successfully predicted 10 out of the past 2 recessions.
The msm has reported on 11 of them.
Yes things are changing. Americans for the first time in 30 years are faced with the harsh reality that THEY CANNOT HAVE EVERYTHING ALL OF THE TIME.
…just think what that does to their self-esteem.
singlemalt_18 on June 27, 2008 at 9:21 AM
Yeh Ed, I heard this reported by the MSM yesterday, went something like this ……..
I think the non-stop recession chatter by the MSM has sunk in with the braindead Americans, also known as the Obama Cult, and they’ve bought it hook, line and sinker.
I’d be curious to see what these same dopes would think or do if the MSM reported 24/7 that discarded Big Mac wrappers are now worth $100 a piece and they can be redeemed at the polls on election day if you vote for Obama.
fogw on June 27, 2008 at 9:21 AM
One percent growth? Well, there’s only one answer - we must raise taxes immediately.
/reidpelosiobama
Slublog on June 27, 2008 at 9:26 AM
Ed,
Track your analysis back to when the dems took over the house in 11-06 and the quarters prior, the since.
You’ll be amazed.
swami on June 27, 2008 at 9:26 AM
The propaganda wing of the DNC (aka MSM) has a vested interest. Back in 1992, they played up the bad news that we were approaching the worst econimic crisis since the Great Depression. Suddenly, on Jan. 21, 1993, everything was miraculously fixed overnight.
If Obama gets elected, we’ll see the same miraculous economic “recovery” we did in 1993.
Vic on June 27, 2008 at 9:30 AM
Dems have been trying to talk us into a recession for two years. When confronted with the quarterly stats showing no GDP decline, they insist that “some people are in a recession anyway.” The truth is that even if we had a booming economy with double-digit GDP growth and unemployment at functional minimum, some people will always manage to come up hurting. But the financially-strapped are still better off here than anyplace else in the world.
whitetop on June 27, 2008 at 9:32 AM
Obama: Not the economy he thought he knew.
CP on June 27, 2008 at 9:33 AM
Ahem. Wrong. Taxes on the rich are the answer.
/sarc
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on June 27, 2008 at 9:34 AM
Have you seen the price of arugula at Whole Foods?
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on June 27, 2008 at 9:35 AM
I’m not an economist, but GDP growth alone is but one aspect of the economy, and from my perspective it’s really grim right now. Indeed, I cannot recall a worse situation in my lifetime, and this does not even include all the failing businesses, like airlines, trucking, and so forth who depend on oil to survive.
Those of us who don’t live in urban areas with mass transit are spending a king’s ransom on gas (thanks Democrats!). Add the decline in property values (thanks ACORN!), and the subsequent decline in our stock portfolios and retirement accounts, and the rising cost of food (thanks Ethanol!) and we’re in serious trouble.
This winter things will be even more dire for people in the Northeast and other regions who need oil to heat their homes.
Elect Barack “tax and spend” Obama and we’re doomed.
Buy Danish on June 27, 2008 at 9:36 AM
I’m fine. It’s my neighbors I’m worried about. They haven’t bought all new appliances for their kitchens in more than a year now. And a couple of them don’t even have granite countertops. Sad. So sad.
(sarcastic - I don’t have new appliances or granite countertops)
aero on June 27, 2008 at 9:39 AM
Remember this when politicians and the media talk about “the worst economy since the Great Depression”.
Wait a minute, wasn’t the worst economy since the Great Depression the one Clinton inherited in 1/1993? [sarc]
Bigfoot on June 27, 2008 at 9:42 AM
I hope you’re right, but I don’t think we’ll see that until oil prices start to decline again. If they even hold steady, the worst is yet to come.
True dat.
flipflop on June 27, 2008 at 9:43 AM
Yeah, but look at inflation. The cost of gasoline, food, energy, health care — up, up, up, up.
Mark Jaquith on June 27, 2008 at 9:48 AM
No one could be more thrilled than me by this news. Nothing could make my case better as economically right-wing environmentalist that we shouldn’t be overly worried about the current price of oil (except for that nasty issue of who is selling the oil). I doubt that this is enough to lay to rest the “Drill here, drill now, pay less” license for ecologically destructiveness, but it does make much less potent as an issue. Though I do think we should figure out some of the least environmental sensitive places to drill for oil and slightly increase our oil production to reduce the funding for terrorism against us.
If the people getting the oil money weren’t such scum, I’d have a different opinion. (By scum, I mean Russian oligarchs, Venezuelan communists, and the faith community of a particular violent religion–not CEO’s of energy companies.)
thuja on June 27, 2008 at 9:48 AM
You sir are correct.
I cannot believe the degree of denial with regard to the current recession. Make no mistake about it, we are firmly in a recession and we are fast heading toward a depression.
It’s also quite foolish to assert that the current economic state is due to one party or the other. The middle class has no friends in politics, both parties have and will sell them out in a heart beat. There is plenty of blame to place on both parties. While we distract our selves with party politics, nothing gets done and Joe Six Pack’s plight become more and more dire.
voiceofreason on June 27, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Somebody ought to tell O’Reilly. He was insisting last night that there is a recession and he “doesn’t care what anyone says”, the mortgage mess is 100% the fault of lenders, and, of course, oil prices are high because of the evil oil companies. He’s also been endorsing corn-based ethanol, which has got to be one of the worst ideas ever.
I gotta agree that the economy is getting pretty messed up, and I’m not exactly in love with some mortgage companies or oil companies, but he seems to have abandoned the idea of individual responsibility altogether.
forest on June 27, 2008 at 9:50 AM
This COUNTRY and her PEOPLE are letting MSM and the LIB POLS talk them into a RECESSION. Since at least the 1930s the definition of RECESSION has been the same. Yet when asked by MSM most think we are in a RECESSION. It won’t be long, and MSM and LIB POLS will define RECESSION as a FEELING. Are we in a RECESSION??? It sure FEELS like it to me…
pueblo1032 on June 27, 2008 at 9:51 AM
Only if something as big as the Internet and tech bubble came along, e.g. cold fusion for cars. Of course, Hussein would get the credit just like Bubba did.
Akzed on June 27, 2008 at 9:53 AM
No! You are wrong, wrong wrong! The media has been telling us we were in a recession for months!
/
carbon_footprint on June 27, 2008 at 9:58 AM
Well, dave742, I looked at the chart you linked to. And I noticed that the lowest inflation calculated by it is 8% since 1996. Now, 1.08 to the eighth power is 1.85, but given that some of the inflation rates given are closer to 12%, the chart would imply that prices have more than doubled since 2000–which is clearly false.
A little math could help you avoid utter nonsense.
thuja on June 27, 2008 at 10:02 AM
O’Reilly is a blooming idiot and I loathe his ignorant and demogogic propaganda about the oil companies and their compensation, but what does individual responsibility have to do with the cost of oil and gas? It is the collective responsibility of Congress.
Buy Danish on June 27, 2008 at 10:04 AM
voiceofreason:
Divide and rule doesn’t apply only to imperialist nations ruling other countries. The rich give us a choice between two parties, but they are nearly identical overall. They allow us the illusion of choice and democracy, and as things get worse we will have the other party to blame, while the rich get richer.
dave742 on June 27, 2008 at 10:04 AM
Yep, just read the story, here is the AP headline in an article that buries the real news at the end,
Fragile economy improves but not out of woods yet.
The headline on my fair and balanced ISP (Comcast) was shortened for the ADD Obama voters:
Economy grows, but not out of danger.
Always a but…
reaganaut on June 27, 2008 at 10:06 AM
he’s really clueless about how the markets work. he’s trying to be a populist, but really all he is is a fool
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 10:11 AM
thuja:
Really? What were you paying for gas, food, health care, etc. 12 years ago? Seems correct to me.
dave742 on June 27, 2008 at 10:11 AM
marxist dave with his wacko conspiracy theories…laughable.
Rove is behind it all…..
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 10:12 AM
it would take much more than that for Davey…
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 10:12 AM
Tough for it to grab the headlines on a day when the Dow sells off 350 points, oil heads toward $140 and GM drops to its lowest level since the Eisenhower administration.
GDP would be negative if it weren’t for the devaluing of the US $, which helps our exports. Unfortunately, the weak dollar is also helping to drive up commodity prices, which is choking our economy.
McCain is going to have to find a way to run against they current economic conditions. The “Drill Here…” idea is a good one. Trying to communicate how harmful Obama’s tax ideas are is another good one.
dedalus on June 27, 2008 at 10:13 AM
I fear you are correct. I’ve been looking for a job for 4 months after being let go due to budget constraints. So far I’ve had only one interview and lots and lots of rejections. My headhunter said that it’s really starting to dry up due to gas prices and inflation. Personally I just don’t see this “boom” at my social level. What I see are fewer and fewer jobs being offered, higher gas and heating oil prices, higher food prices and a very bleak future. I just don’t know what I will do this winter when faced with nearly a $1000.00 a month in fuel cost to heat the house and drive the cars. If I don’t get a job I think we will be in very deep trouble and may have to join the ranks of the mortgage defaulters.
jmarcure on June 27, 2008 at 10:16 AM
We shouldn’t even be talking about recession until there is one quarter of negative growth. Then maybe the next quarter might indicate a recession if it is negative also. What is really happening is we are talking ourselves into an economic downturn that is not substantiated by facts and the liberal/progressive media is trying to exacerbate via their policies of higher taxes, restricted drilling of oil, govt regulations, expansion of bad loans (directed and encouraged by congress in 1998) etc. Democrats are happy with the situation and trying everything they can to make it worse.
jerseyman on June 27, 2008 at 10:20 AM
thuja:
jmarcure reminds me of another thing. What was your heating bill 12 years ago?
dave742 on June 27, 2008 at 10:22 AM
absolutely.
but we’ve been living off the work of our forefathers, and we’ve reached the tipping point now.
we need to start building power plants, nuclear plants, drilling etc. else learn to love $6 oil, and a very different style of life.
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 10:22 AM
Don’t worry, the Obamaessiah will get elected and the “miraculous economic turnaround” will take 6 weeks in the media.
Techie on June 27, 2008 at 10:22 AM
Depression, eh?
So, when do I start worrying about tripping over breadlines?
Techie on June 27, 2008 at 10:23 AM
It’s tricky, right4life. On the one hand, it seems a waste of time to reply with a marginal grip on reality. On the other hand, human history is full of insane ideas winning the battle of ideas. My thinking is that if you can show people wrong using basic math, then it’s worth the effort. I just wish basic economics constituted a valid argument for most people. Alas, we live in a country with minimum wage laws.
thuja on June 27, 2008 at 10:25 AM
We may not officially have a “recession”, but no one can deny certain economic factors are in a recession.
Heating oil, not a major concern now, is going to be a major problem in the fall. Housing will continue to be a problem, as the boomers move to their “last” home, as they leave the work place and set up their final nest…and search for reasonable health insurance. If you think cars are the only thing that uses fuel, try working a few thousand acres without diesel. Every bit of farming is dependent on energy, and I have never seen a windmill powered tractor.
We may not be in a recession, but we are pushed to the edge of the cliff. And a wrong economic move will push us over, or more important, a lack of decisiveness (like not drilling) will push us over.
And unlike the last recession, a large number of people will be out of the work force, retirees not capable or in the position to re-build. The boomers will be taking more and more out of the system in the way of services and Social Security, and paying less and less taxes.
The boomers have driven the economy for 60 years…that is the New Orleans levy of economy, if you don’t shore it up and make the right move.
Allowing out-sourcing of our manufacturing, taxing corporations or putting unreasonable work standards (as a form of taxation), in essence giving incentives to move your company out of the U.S., allowing China to bypass international export laws, allowing industries like steel and wood to be taken over by foreign entities because we don’t want our “environment” to suffer, but we allow even worse damage to their part of the world. It is all coming home to roost.
Our shortsightedness, our attempt to control every aspect of business, our attempt to tax every thing, our insistence to grow government, we are more concerned that the government stay out of the bedroom then out of our pocketbooks…so we pay the congressional whores to screw us, they expect a tip, and on the way out they steal our money.
right2bright on June 27, 2008 at 10:25 AM
I missed your comment about the triumph of right wing environmentalism.
I’m going to play the role of the psychic and divine that you do not rely on a car to get to work, or if you do, you only have to travel very short distances. You also do not own a trucking business, work for an airline or anything related to the auto business. Moreover, you do not have a family with mouths to feed, nor are you approaching retirement.
Either that, or, your income is at such a high level that the cost of basic items like gas and food are a drop in the bucket for you.
Buy Danish on June 27, 2008 at 10:25 AM
About the same. I insulated the house in the meanwhile.
thuja on June 27, 2008 at 10:27 AM
So the stock market losing 20% is just a figment of our imagination and its good times out there?
This is a losing arguement. I have no idea why people want to argue that we aren’t in bad times economicaly
Do we think if we say the economy isn’t in a recession we will get more votes come NOV.
The fact is that for the bottom 50% of the population we are in a recession. For the top 20-30% of the population we are in great times. And for the other 25% of the population there is great fear and uncertainity as far as the economy goes.
So by my calculation trying to fight this agrument of recession/ non recession makes 70% of the population think the republicians are out of touch and headed down the wrong track.
unseen on June 27, 2008 at 10:32 AM
Can’t tell you but for me it may be right around Jan 2009 if things continue the way they are.
jmarcure on June 27, 2008 at 10:35 AM
We should be attacking why we are in bad times (democratic policies on energy, poverty, environment , democratic senators taking bribes from countrywide to look the other way on housing etc)
Not agruing wether things are bad or not.
With gas at $4.00/gal and going up the economy will soon enough be in more trouble.
unseen on June 27, 2008 at 10:38 AM
I’ve gotta agree with some of the other commenters, we may not be in a text book definition of a Recession, but it sure feels like one. If we could lift the ban on drilling to put some downward pressure on oil price, I think would help a tremendously. A lot of people are having to put every grocery and gasoline purchase on a credit card because they just do not have the money to pay for it. I see it first hand everyday with gasoline at the company I work for. I know in the South we do not have as much usage of heating oil as the North, but most people around here that still heat with Heating Oil are mostly elderly fixed income types. I know they have not budgeted for the increases in home heating this winter. I am not sure what they are going to do when 100 gals costs close to $500.
SCGOPgirl on June 27, 2008 at 10:39 AM
thuja:
Your heating bill is about the same as 12 years ago. My heating bill 12 years ago in a 3500 sq foot house in Chicago never hit $200. I now live in a much smaller house with warmer winters (Boston), and pay about $700. If readers can identify with your situation, then maybe you and the government are right. If readers can closer identify with my situation, maybe they shouldn’t believe government statistics that tell them how great things are.
dave742 on June 27, 2008 at 10:39 AM
Haven’t you heard? We’ve replaced bread lines with stimulus checks. No waiting in line, the bread gets sent to your house. That’s progress for you.
voiceofreason on June 27, 2008 at 10:40 AM
sad but true…I’ve found thought that facts don’t matter to ideologues, like dave, who never let the facts get in the way of their left-wing ideology.
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 10:41 AM
At teh Corner, Kudlow was predicting a “goldilocks” scenario months back; I think this is it
urbancenturion on June 27, 2008 at 10:41 AM
Every bit of farming is dependent on energy, and I have never seen a windmill powered tractor.
right2bright on June 27, 2008 at 10:25 AM
The Amish in PA use horses to plow the land. It’s hard work but the AMish are the only farmers in Amaerica that are in the black EVERY year (at least for the 25 years that I lived near them)
unseen on June 27, 2008 at 10:41 AM
There are still way too many people that aren’t happy unless they are miserable. Many of those people have BDS and a number of other maladies.
Got this from Imprimis (Hillsdale College newsletter) which did the research. Everything was adjusted to 2000 dollars.
Avg. net wealth for Americas has gone from $63K to $97K since 1982. The DOW has risen 1400% since 1982. Unemployment has been under 5% for 5 years, the longest stretch in history. It was over 7% after Carter’s administration debacle.
Lots of other good stats in there regarding the poor, or lack thereof, since America’s poor have virtually everything they need, including an avg. of 721 sq. ft. of living space. More than the average French person, BTW.
kirkill on June 27, 2008 at 10:41 AM
yeah they should just listen to you dave…you’re the ORACLE who sees things like they really are….a dark world full of conspiracies where the world is ruled by EVIL rich people, sucking the blood of poor people like you!!
soon we will rise up and overthrow the masters…
power to the people…
right.
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 10:43 AM
yeah all these people whining about how bad it is don’t remember the 70s and never talked to their grandparents about what life was like during the depression.
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 10:44 AM
My reply to you is not personal. I’d just like to point out two different types of suffering often confused:
Suffering of type A:
You are a Saudi woman sentenced to 150 lashes for talking to man.
You are a Amish gay person shunned by everyone you knew and loved.
All your property has been appropriated by the Venezuelan government.
You are being tortured in a North Korean concentration camp.
You are a subsistence farmer and a storm has destroyed your crop.
Suffering of type B:
You can’t afford to send your undergraduate child to the Yucatan peninsula for spring break.
You have to settle for the 44 inch HDTV instead of the 54 inch one you truly wanted.
You decide you can’t afford to drive 200 miles to watch a NASCAR race.
thuja on June 27, 2008 at 10:46 AM
I don’t remember but this year it was about $600.00 per month during the winter. I got 100gals which cost me $439.00 two weeks ago and because it’s summer I expect that will last at least until mid July as it’s only being used for hot water. At current prices it will cost me just over $1000.00 to fill the tank and in the coldest part of winter I use about a tank a month. I have a very old house that is insulated about as much as it can be without substantial rebuilding of of it. Even unemployed I could just handle it if it were not for the mandotory health care which is costing me $1200.00 per month. Hey it’s breaking me but all the rich liberals in MA can sleep well knowing everyone has healtcare and let’s face it what more do I realy need other than that warm glow that comes from knowing that I’ve made a liberal happy.
jmarcure on June 27, 2008 at 10:48 AM
Good point.
Although I don’t agree that this is only affecting the bottom 50%, by any means. It depends more on individual circumstances, such as reliance on cars for transportation, what business one happens to work in, family size, and so forth.
If I had no children, lived in NYC where I could take public transportation to work every day, and paid rent which included the cost of heat (and thus placed the onus on my landlord), I would not be feeling the pinch at all, except in my retirement portfolio. At least not yet…
Buy Danish on June 27, 2008 at 10:48 AM
right4life:
Maybe you are right, and the rich leaders are staying awake at night worrying about how to improve life for the masses. If that’s your worldview, I’m happy for you.
dave742 on June 27, 2008 at 10:48 AM
Even Kudlow is bearish now. I’m hoping that that’s a contrian indicator since he is a permabull. But no doubt the economy is in very bad shape. Things looked to be improving before oil had its latest jump up. Now no one really knows if growth will pick up from here or decline.
phronesis on June 27, 2008 at 10:49 AM
you know I don’t spend anytime worrying about the rich leaders and how they are going to impact my life one way or the other.
I look to myself to improve my life, and I don’t wait for someone like the ObaMAHDI to give me a good life.
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 10:51 AM
right4life:
And the rich leaders love you for it.
dave742 on June 27, 2008 at 10:54 AM
The Dow rose about that much from 1982 to 1999. The Dow (as of this morning) is down slightly since December 1999.
dedalus on June 27, 2008 at 10:55 AM
oh and who are these rich leaders??
let me guess they are members of:
the bilderbergs
the illuminati
the masons
the rothschilds
the international bankers
and worst of all THE NEOCONS
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 10:55 AM
Dave’s right. The employment and inflation numbers have been cooked for some time.
Inflation is understated to prop up Social Security by ripping off retiree’s through no or low cola adjustments.
Hiding inflation also helped to fuel the dot com bubble which then morphed into the real estate bubble which has since morphed into the commodities bubble.
The employment figures are anything that the bls wants them to be. They don’t mark to market but once per year.
To see how the numbers are cooked, check out John William’s Shadow Stats website.
voiceofreason on June 27, 2008 at 10:55 AM
yes they have us all fooled…its all part of the conspiracy!!! eeek!!!!
you see I know this other Rich Leader Who is really running things…and I live and die , succeed or fail, at His word….and He is the only one that really matters…
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 10:57 AM
dedalus on June 27, 2008 at 10:55 AM
down 20% since oct 2007. If you invested in the dow over the last year you have lost money.
unseen on June 27, 2008 at 10:59 AM
*sigh* Spare me the false analogies, like the lashing of Saudi women or the gay Amish. Seriously, what the hell is your point?
The fact is that it’s easy to claim beyond reason that “right wing environmentalism” works if you don’t specifically suffer the economic consequences.
The fact that you claim to be on the right on economic issues is nothing short of farcical.
Buy Danish on June 27, 2008 at 11:00 AM
I really don’t care if Pelosi loves us or not.
fogw on June 27, 2008 at 11:01 AM
Geez, Larry a bear? I missed that. It would have scared the heck out of me if I heard him express anything other than optimism. Hope you are right about it being a contrarian indicator (it’s either that or a sign of the apocalypse).
Maybe the upcoming earning season will provide some boosts for the market–though RIMM and NKE recently didn’t help. Also, any significant pullback in oil should send the Dow back up hundreds of points.
dedalus on June 27, 2008 at 11:05 AM
Well said. I don’t even care or envy people like Paris Hilton or Bill Gates and I don’t blame them if they want to piss their money away on silly things. Yup I’m in a sad place right now but I don’t expect to be here forever and I sure as heck don’t expect the government to bail me out. If we lose the house then that’s life and we start over because the important thing is that we are still alive and things are just things. What I have realized is that we cling to our material lives quite fiercely. I don’t want to move or seek employment outside my profession but the reality is that I just may have to because I sure as heck don’t expect the government to maintain my desired lifestyle in my desired location which is something I fear far to many in this country expect from government. I will survive and I will do it without having to take your money. On the other hand if you want to give it to me…. Only kidding.
jmarcure on June 27, 2008 at 11:07 AM
that won’t happen unless we start drilling. and given the near certainty of the ObaMAHDIs election and a democrat congress, it won’t happen. even captain queeg doesnt’ want to drill in ANWR.
we are not a serious country anymore….
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 11:07 AM
you have a very good attitude, that is becoming rare in america these days. good luck and God Bless…
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 11:09 AM
What people fail to understand is that our economy is a very fragile thing. 9/11 should have taught us that. 2 airplanes just about wiped out our bond market, stopped trading in out stock market for days, caused a massive loss of wealth and if not for government intervention could have toppled our economy.
That was two planes
unseen on June 27, 2008 at 11:09 AM
You know, I really shouldn’t let you get away with this one either. Nice job using a cliche’ found on a daily basis at places like DU and KOS.
This coming from someone who believes that weeds are more sacred than life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness, but you’re oh so much more enlightened than Americans who subscribe to these silly ideas.
Buy Danish on June 27, 2008 at 11:12 AM
Yep. Big time. However, the 20% drop since the fall isn’t unusual. One could argue that it is healthy. The fact that the major indexes are flat or down over the course of 8+ years is more worrisome. The good news is that P/E multiples are a lot lower than they were in 1999.
dedalus on June 27, 2008 at 11:17 AM
Man, Bill O’Reilly was flipping out last night about the economy saying that the oil companies are to blame and saying that we are in a recession. Basically just parroting what the rest of the media says. He was really starting to tick me off.
Then it occured to me, this man has all the economic knowledge of a 2nd grader.
Why can’t we all just calm the f*** down for a minute?
Pcoop on June 27, 2008 at 11:18 AM
I fear I didn’t read the rule where being to the right economically means your attitude towards the environment is kill everything now. If there is such a rule, too bad for it.
thuja on June 27, 2008 at 11:22 AM
Have you ever attempted to not demonize everyone you disagree with?
I’ve always thought there was something to be said for polite rational disagreement.
thuja on June 27, 2008 at 11:28 AM
“adapt and overcome”
trailortrash on June 27, 2008 at 11:31 AM
dedalus on June 27, 2008 at 11:17 AM
20% is bear market land. Last bear market was 1999-2003. That downturn was healthy becase it was based on stocks being too high. This downturn not so much because it is based on fundemental concerns in the economy things will get worse as long as gas is above $3.75/gal
unseen on June 27, 2008 at 11:35 AM
What have you said that’s rational? I am pointing out the serious fallacies in your arguments, that you make claims from a perch that that is divorced from reality, and the fact that your envirowacko ideas do great harm.
Buy Danish on June 27, 2008 at 11:47 AM
Imbecile.
dave742 on June 27, 2008 at 11:49 AM
Have you ever attempted to not demonize everyone you disagree with?
I’ve always thought there was something to be said for polite rational disagreement.
thuja on June 27, 2008 at 11:49 AM
Some use tractors, some use “Amish tractors” wagons pulled with draft horses but have small engines to power the equipment needed for bailing, planting, etc., and others use straight plow horses.
Tractors and others were used regularly up until 1960, but the Amish farms were growing to “large”, so they retreated in some communities, by order of their religious leaders.
And they are consistently in the black, more for their co-operative efforts then for lack of mechanical products.
right2bright on June 27, 2008 at 11:59 AM
Just a minor quibble. That should be GNP. Also, the dollar isn’t weak because commodity prices are rising,(I know you didn’t say it was) it’s weak for other factors, which is reflected in the dollar-denominated price of commodities. Just thought that was important to point out.
JiangxiDad on June 27, 2008 at 12:03 PM
What you seem to miss is that drilling is not a zero sum action. That is you don’t have to destroy the environment to claim oil.
The Alaskan pipeline was going to “destroy the environment”, you may not have been around when it was built. But it was the death of all living creatures, it was the beginning of a major catastrophe, it was evil incarnate…and what is the impact now? (after 15 billion barrels of oil have been pumped)…it is a blessing.
You see the problem with environmentalists, is they have no faith in man, however, they have faith in themselves…so I guess that is an oxymoron…or a self fulfilled prophecy.
right2bright on June 27, 2008 at 12:12 PM
“the worst economy since the Great Depression”
I remember that exact same rhetoric just before the elections when George HW Bush was running against Clinton. Then after Clinton took office they said there was no recession and revised the numbers up.
crosspatch on June 27, 2008 at 12:23 PM
I missed this gem. Poor, “demonized” thuja is accusing those who disagree with (her?) of ‘killing everything now’.
This too from someone who once said this:
Buy Danish on June 27, 2008 at 12:43 PM
Something else you said, thuja:
Sorry, but it is impossible to have a “rational” discourse with someone who says this sort of thing.
Buy Danish on June 27, 2008 at 12:47 PM
I’m getting jealous…
right2bright on June 27, 2008 at 12:51 PM
Just saw where Paulson is flying over to meet with Trichet on Tuesday–probably to coordinate some support for the US$. There will likely be more problems for the US markets if the ECB raises rates next Thursday. It’s interesting that Europeans have the opposite problem of the U.S.–currency too strong, exports getting slammed.
dedalus on June 27, 2008 at 12:55 PM
Thuja. Truly, you are a moonbat. I know you know it. It’s OK. You were taught this crazy shit by the media and do-gooders and hollyweird, and gay people, and peaceniks, and animal lovers and all kinds of counter-culture robots from the ’60’s.
The environment is for us. I’m sure that a homo sapien-centric view of life is appalling to you, and you probably take great pride in sticking up for the conifers and snail darters of this world.
And btw, underpopulation is one of the greatest challenges facing the West. And yes Thuja, I prefer the West, western-oriented people, and want them to reproduce like mad. I said it. I made a value judgement.
JiangxiDad on June 27, 2008 at 12:56 PM
The best part? O’Reilly repeatedly asserting “We’re in a recession” last night, followed by (at least once) “I don’t care what you say, we’re in a recession.” ‘tard.
RightWinged on June 27, 2008 at 1:26 PM
Trichet’s an inflation hawk. Just like Paulson’s stuck, so is Trichet–just between different rocks.
If I had to make a bet, (as we all do, of course), I’d say ECB rates stay the same. If they don’t coordinate the rescue, we’re sunk, and we’ll drag them with us.
JiangxiDad on June 27, 2008 at 1:26 PM
For those concerned the DOW just passed into BEAR MARKET LAND.
It gets worse from here
unseen on June 27, 2008 at 1:48 PM
So many stock bargins, so little time.
spec_ops_mateo on June 27, 2008 at 2:20 PM
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