McCain on immigration reform: “I’m glad I did it”
posted at 1:16 pm on June 27, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Via Byron York. We know he’s planning to revisit the issue — the day after he’s inaugurated, no less — but the lack of remorse is news to me. What happened to that “lesson” he supposedly learned about securing the border first?
College betting is obviously an interstate commerce issue
(So Nevada should not have the right to have sports betting?)
The issue has been dead for years
(Despite your efforts, and I thought you were running on effectiveness, so how can it be dead?)
I haven’t won on every issue. I didn’t win on immigration reform, but I’ll go back at it. And I’m glad I did it.
Watch the Meet the Press clip linked up top to remind yourself of how uncomfortable he was, even when he was spouting garbage about having learned his lesson, with saying that he’d veto his crap amnesty bill if it landed on his desk as president. He succeeded in dodging the question entirely with Russert, in fact, but was finally badgered into saying that he’d veto it — almost en passant — at the Reagan Library debate three days later. It comes right at the beginning here, around 35 seconds in. Exit question: Why on earth would he feel compelled to say he’s glad he pushed for a bill that the base hates with a nuclear passion? I understand he has to walk a tightrope between Latino voters and border-enforcement conservatives, but that’s precisely my point: This isn’t how you behave on a tightrope. This is him flipping the bird to amnesty opponents. What gives?
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you basically accused me of racism…you’re the one who is deranged, and cannot support your position, so you have to resort to personal attacks.
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 4:10 PM
I think the Republicans make a big mistake not talking to the Black citizens of this country about immigration.
Nothing hurts anyone more then the black community. It takes jobs away, it takes money away from schools (big time money), and the Hispanic vote is getting stronger then the Black vote in some of the key states so the black influence in dwindling. Long ago this should have been (if we hadn’t ended up with open border fools) an issue to divide the Black vote from the Dems. The Dems are abandoning the Blacks in favor of the Hispanic vote.
Also the fastest growing middle class group in the U.S. in the Hispanics, so they will soon have the money and numbers to further weaken any influence of the Blacks. The Dems have used the Blacks for decades, and now are just giving them lip service as they prepare to dance with the next group that can keep them in power.
An issue we should have used years ago…
right2bright on June 27, 2008 at 4:11 PM
Big S, I’ve pointed out that Hispanic voting patterns have nothing to do with the recent immigration debate. Any response?
flenser on June 27, 2008 at 4:11 PM
I long ago got sick and tired of the sleazy chuck-and-jive shamnesty politicians of which John McCain has been the chief ring leader. The reason that Republican supporters of “Comprehensive Immigration Reform” want it is so that they and/or their campaign contributors can have serf labor. They would probably prefer actual out-and-out slaves but that is illegal.
The reason that shamnesty Democrats want this is so that those who are now illegal can become legal and vote for them. Many of them probably also want to do this for the same reason that shamnesty Republicans do too.
Does anyone think that many of these shamnesty politicians really care one wit otherwise for the illegals.
Does anyone think that any of the shamnesty politicians are going to invite these Mexican Indios and Mezclados to join their elite/exclusive golf clubs?
Come to live in their gated communities, other than as servants?
Invite them to their yachts, other than as low paid deck hands and/or servants?
Invite them to their cocktail parties?
Introduce them to their daughters?
The big majority of the Mexicans who have come here/will come here are Indios and Mezclados, not the Spanish descendant light-skinned ruling class of Mexico. This is a form of ethnic cleansing by Mexico’s ruling class.
So the shamnesty politicians like John McCain are aiding and abetting and facilitating ethnic cleansing.
If the U.N. were not such a joke, they would all be standing trial for trying to reintroduce a form of latter-day-slavery in the United States and for the mass ethnic cleansing of Mexico.
MB4 on June 27, 2008 at 4:12 PM
terryannonline, you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself for that. BowHuntingTexas and right4life deserve an apology from you. That was a very low and unfair accusation you just laid upon them.
Zetterson on June 27, 2008 at 4:13 PM
Oh, dear gawd. Show me where I even suggest you were racist? Or anyone else for that matter…I was only citing evidence that someone (you) had used the words “brown people” when someone else said it wasn’t there. That’s it. Personal attacks? Grow up.
Time for this jet to fly…go be nasty to someone else.
JetBoy on June 27, 2008 at 4:13 PM
the economy?? a guy who’s bitching about oil company’s profilts? who is in favor of a cap and trade policy?? nope, you failed on that one.
energy?? he wont drill in “pristing” ANWR. oh, check google “uranium grand canyon” yeah, the canyon is just so pristine. he doesnt support using oil shale. but he did flip flop on off-shore drilling. i’ll say a D there.
as for the war. yes, big A+ there. however i am not willing to sacrifice and make the changes i would have to under a mccain presidency. if it means the iraqis are on there own so be it. its cold-hearted but he’s also asking too much.
the problem is he wants millions of conservatives to compromise their principles and vote for him. he wont come halfway on any issue that is important to conservatives.
your effort was half-assed to say the least. you really didnt try and i suspect its because you have no substantive answers to a conservative who opposes mccain. all you can do is chant “obama’s worse, mccain derangement” but hey, it gets you points for johnny mac so keep it up.
chasdal on June 27, 2008 at 4:13 PM
Jetboy, he is a chain jerker, just ignore what he writes. Don’t feed the organ grinders monkey, he is just there to entertain.
right2bright on June 27, 2008 at 4:14 PM
Anyone who isn’t “paranoid” simple isn’t paying attention!
Murphy9 on June 27, 2008 at 4:15 PM
You know full well TerryAnn thought R4L was using the words in a derogatory manner, and you supported her assertion. She is wrong, and I suspect it’s only a matter of time before she realizes it. You have no excuse.
JiangxiDad on June 27, 2008 at 4:16 PM
I hope you have more than that. See G & I on my list. By expanding the border points, the agents can verify everyone using the national id base since the border agents can staff the crossing points instead of driving through the wilds hoping they don’t get bushwhacked while searching for groups crossing the border illegally. Focus the tide and you can focus the effort.
My friends and I just crossed the border in mid May and our entire group had to provide a passport or a drivers license with birth certificate to the border agent.
Come up with a new problem so I can enlighten you with a solution. Or is it just easier to say, “It’s too damn tough so let’s let it slide.”
VikingGoneWild on June 27, 2008 at 4:17 PM
Thanks. Yeah, I know. And I should know better than to fall into that trap. It’s just sometimes…
He and his ilk only serve to bring constructive, intelligent debate to it’s knees and into the gutter.
JetBoy on June 27, 2008 at 4:18 PM
Very powerful weapons in public places, what does that even mean? Can you have a hunting rifle in your trunk? Deer rifles are pretty damned potent rifles, if you’re hunting elk, grizzly, moose or bison, you’re talking more powerful. How about a twelve gauge for deer or large birds? How do you transport them?
Truth is you know nada about firearms, as has been demonstrated by others countless times, you’ve gone on record repeatedly in favor of the fascist “assault weapons” ban. And no one can have the back of their pickup filled with automatics unless they’re well connected, criminals, or the very, very rich, because automatic weapons are highly restricted, and ownership on new ones are banned. Semi-autos are a whole different matter if you know what the hell you’re talking about, and have no place being the subject of a ban. EVER. End of discussion.
As for the smoking, open your own damned restaurant and bar if you’re so offended by it, I don’t smoke beyond the occasional cigar, and certainly not at restaurants or bars(unless it was an appropriate cigar/bar/lounge type atmosphere), and I’d never complain if a restaurant or bar made its own ban, they’re free to do so.
And that is precisely why people like you are so damned dangerous, this is how authoritarians win and take over. They find all the little fracture points, everyone’s personal pet peeve or thing they’re offended by, and make a movement to ban or regulate it, and by the time everyone’s done banning their personal dislike, we’re left with a soulless authoritarian hellhole, like
BritainAirstrip One is now.Everyone has things they’re disgusted by, things they hate, and everyone has a strong desire to use government power to stop the activities of the offending person. You’re all too willing to indulge in that tendency, because you don’t like the idea of people having scary looking semi-auto ARs and AKs or enjoying a cigar at a bar. Social cons fall into similar tendencies, admittedly, but the anti-Second and Anti-First are the most dangerous of the Nanny Staters.
doubleplusundead on June 27, 2008 at 4:18 PM
you’re too stupid to even be entertaining. you must be in constant pain…that much stupidity has to hurt.
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 4:18 PM
i have to concede to you on that point. as a presidential candidate a person is considered the leader of the party and their policy positions are the “face” of the party to the independents each side is clamoring for.
that makes it all the more repellant that mccain supports illegal amnesty. and bush also. he cant be left off the hook for his effots even if he is a lame duck.
chasdal on June 27, 2008 at 4:18 PM
yeah after you imply I’m a racist. you’re a typical liberal piece of trash.
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 4:19 PM
ROFLMAO!!!
Darksean on June 27, 2008 at 4:20 PM
you were support terry’s accusation about the whole ‘brown people’ thing. you’re just a tool.
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 4:20 PM
people like terry and jetpunk have no other option, they don’t have the intelligence to argue their case.
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 4:21 PM
I was supporting terryann’s accusation that “brown people” was a term that was used in this thread, when someone else said it had not been. That’s it.
Peace out, bro. I’m done with you.
JetBoy on June 27, 2008 at 4:22 PM
Well, you would have to say that, because if we are not paranoid that would make you not very astute. And no one would ever say “I guess your right, I am not very observant or knowledgeable”.
So you have to pin us as paranoid.
But just as an exercise, Orange county, Calif. was known a couple of decades ago as one of the most conservative areas in the U.S., they are now largely liberal.
Look at the voting stats of Santa Ana, Calif., about 75% Hispanic, how do they vote? How does East L.A. vote, how about Chula Vista, San Bernardino, Azusa, don’t call us paronoid, or we will have to call you delusional.
Hispanic votes move towards the liberals, exception would be Cuban vote. So let’s be non-pc for a minute and just say that Hispanic basically means Mexican.
right2bright on June 27, 2008 at 4:24 PM
did you not realize terryann meant it was used previously in a deragatory manner? not just that it had been used. by itself “brown skinned” isnt offensive. it takes context to make it offensive which is what terryann was claiming. that it had been used in an offensive context.
chasdal on June 27, 2008 at 4:25 PM
Yes, I know what terryann meant. If you can show me where I even so much implied any racism, please repost it. I did not. So it is I that is being falsely accused. But this is way off topic, and I’ll say no more about it.
JetBoy on June 27, 2008 at 4:29 PM
I think you are missing the point as to why right4life is upset about that. terryannonline cited the word as evidence that some of the commenters on this thread are racists. Then you came along and said, “yup, I saw the word!” That gave everyone the impression that you and terryannonline agreed that this was evidence of racism. It wasn’t though. Thats where things went wrong. Just be clear about what you mean and this miscommunication will go away.
Zetterson on June 27, 2008 at 4:30 PM
well Bob Barr is out there for all you “I hate McCain, but not as much as Obama” crowd.
Monkei on June 27, 2008 at 4:31 PM
I think one of those two ways was in a satirical context. Much ado about nothing.
Now back to the thread:
Is McCain’s method worth getting him elected, is it any better then Obama’s?
As much as the energy crisis is bad, the real long term effect is illegal immigration and the embracing of it.
I suspect, each side wants it, and wants to stake claim to the vote.
Because only a few points seperated either party, the Hispanic (Mexican) vote becomes a significant vote. They could care less about the immigrants, they want the power derived from the immigrants. Just like the plantation owners wanted the slaves to pick their crops, they want the immigrants to cast votes.
right2bright on June 27, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Hey hey, he’s a monkei,
And he goes monkeing around,
flenser on June 27, 2008 at 4:33 PM
All screaming aside, we have a choice. It’s Obama or McCain. It can only be one of the two. It seems like a pretty easy choice for me.
I think we should be honest, and often angry, about our differences with the “maverick”, but we should give him our vote.
The time for picking the most conservative candidate is in the primaries. We failed terribly, and this is the choice we have to make. McCain or Obama? It’s an easy one for me.
thebriand on June 27, 2008 at 4:37 PM
I don’t think it was a ‘miscommunication’ the open border types are always calling their opponents racists.
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 4:38 PM
Juan McDumptey tried to straddle a wall,
Juan McDumptey will have a great fall;
All of Juan’s blind followers and all of Juan’s coolaid men,
Won’t be able to put Juan McDumptey together again.
MB4 on June 27, 2008 at 4:41 PM
But don’t you think it is wise to let him know what we expect for our vote?
What is wrong with demanding a shift in position? We aren’t voting for King (yeah, I know Kings aren’t voted in), he needs to know what we want in return for support.
right2bright on June 27, 2008 at 4:42 PM
And so we have two candidates, since you are not supporting McCain, then I am assuming you have embraced Obama.
Well, aren’t you the discerning one…
right2bright on June 27, 2008 at 4:44 PM
True, but I seriously don’t think Jetboy was calling you a racist. I think he just missed the big picture. He really just needed to explain himself better. Depending upon how we read what he wrote we could very easily have been given the impression that he was agreeing in total with terryannonline’s comment. Based on his later comments, I don’t think he agreed with her that the use of the word was evidence of racism. Just for some strange reason he felt compelled to point out that the word was, in fact, used.
Zetterson on June 27, 2008 at 4:44 PM
How many times have I told you all:
That McCain NEVER changes his mind once he decides on something? ….DOZENS.
That when opposed, he will pretend to go along with the people he wants something from (i.e. votes), then return to his original position? ….DOZENS.
How many times have his own actions and words proven that I am right about that? …. DOZENS.
How many times do many of you tell me I’m so wrong… That “McCain really gets it” and will do what you want him to, if you figuratively ‘hold his feet to the fire’? ….. Yet to have the evidence that you were wrong shoved under your nose once again a few days later? …. again… DOZENS.
If years of physical and mental torture by his captors in North Vietnam and more skilled ‘brainwashing’ by their ‘advisors’ from somewhat further north couldn’t get him to really change his mind about things he believed in, what makes you think that your harshly worded letter will do anything?
LegendHasIt on June 27, 2008 at 4:48 PM
I think it very wise. We should be screaming from the rooftops. Hopefully, we can move him in the right direction.
The fact remains, his election is now our best-case scenario.
So, while I will not be flagging a McCain 08 bumper sticker, I will, most certainly, be voting for him.
thebriand on June 27, 2008 at 4:52 PM
But he has never endured the pain of a paper cut, reading these posts…wait, these posts on on a computer, never mind…
right2bright on June 27, 2008 at 4:53 PM
50% effective is a huge first step. To say otherwise is ridiculous. 5-6 million is easier number to deal with versus 10-12 million.
Cost to build the border. Sure it’s going to cost money! There is no free lunch. Besides the cost will be offset by the money saved in social welfare programs, education and local law enforcement costs.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html
Once again, doing nothing accomplishes nothing.
VikingGoneWild on June 27, 2008 at 4:57 PM
And thats why he will lose. Thats why he’s a bad candidate. Candidates don’t just need people to come around and vote for them. Sure, most conservatives will turn up on election day and cast their vote for McCain. But what a candidate really needs to win is passionate support. They need people sporting those bumper stickers. They need people planting campaign signs in their front yards. Most importantly they need people to donate money to the campaign. McCain cannot generate passionate support. McCain is the type of candidate people will show up and hold their nose to vote for. In other words he is the type of candidate who loses.
Zetterson on June 27, 2008 at 4:59 PM
That’s not an accurate analogy. The real question is, would you be capitulating your Christian beliefs if you drank alcohol, engaged in premarital sex and encouraged others to do the same, or at least helped perpetuate circumstances making it more likely they would?
FloatingRock on June 27, 2008 at 5:06 PM
Exactly. When I read that comment I just shook my head. According to Jetboy, building the fence is a bad thing because it only solves half the problem. My immediate thought was, ummm OK so taking that one action completely eliminates half the problem right off the bat. Excellent. Not to mention the fact that he is offering yet another straw man argument. Nobody is arguing that building the fence is the be all and end all of solving the problem of illegal immigration. Building the fence is merely the first step. The next step is eliminating the magnet that keeps them here so they leave effortlessly on their own terms. Enforce the laws. Stop giving them free healthcare, education, schooling, etc and their reason for being here is gone. And before we know it, so will they be.
Zetterson on June 27, 2008 at 5:06 PM
I fear you may be right. It’s truly frightening.
Still though, my conscience will be clear.
thebriand on June 27, 2008 at 5:06 PM
Yes, I agree with you that something must be done. But will it work, that’s my question…and will the end result be worth the $$$ and effort?
Too many are under the assumption that McCain is going to somehow grant instant citizenship to all illegals here. And that’s simply not the case. Remember, our great conservative hero Ronald Reagan even saw it necessary to grant amnesty to illegals already here.
The fence, wall, whatever…which again, I am all for…won’t do anything about anyone here already. And again, is 50% effective, which is talking about right now, not the future, worth it all, or is it going to be an enormous waste of time?
Simply put, there are no black and white easy answers to the illegal issue. But, also again, is this issue really enough to keep bashing McCain over the head with? LEt’s concentrate on getting him elected first. That’s what I’m saying.
JetBoy on June 27, 2008 at 5:06 PM
I am not about to read all these comments, but what do people expect the man to say? They call him names, treat him like a traitor and then expect him to grovel? That is not McCain.
In fact I am getting sick of the whole issue. If the kind of person hardliners could actually support without constant bitching were to win the nomination, we would lose the election. Big time. If the kind of person who can win runs and fails to beg for forgiveness from people who call him Juan McAmnesty, then they rant and rave and go on and on and on.
I mean come on, the man said he did not regret it. That can mean a lot of things. It can mean he learned something from the experience, it could mean he thinks the overall issue needed to be addressed. Whatever.
People are just too touchy about the whole damn thing.
I just wish that some of these conservatives had made it an issue years ago and dealt with it then, instead of waiting until we are fighting a war and then using the issue to create a civil war in their own party. I am sick and tired of it. Cannibalistic bullshit.
Terrye on June 27, 2008 at 5:08 PM
I never said building the fence was a bad thing (gee, what’s with me being so misinterpreted today?) I only question it’s worth. Again, I am all for closing the border to illegal immigration.
But when you close one door, the remaining open doors only get busier. Migrants from South America aren’t going to stop coming. We can keep plugging holes, but they’re coming. And what do yo do about the millions here already…isn’t that the real problem?
JetBoy on June 27, 2008 at 5:09 PM
Did you even read the rest of my post? Its entire purpose was to answer the question you just predictably posed.
Zetterson on June 27, 2008 at 5:11 PM
In order to be completely clear I will copy and paste my post again making use of one small correction:
Exactly. When I read that comment I just shook my head. According to Jetboy, building the fence is
a bad thingnot worth it because it only solves half the problem. My immediate thought was, ummm OK so taking that one action completely eliminates half the problem right off the bat. Excellent. Not to mention the fact that he is offering yet another straw man argument. Nobody is arguing that building the fence is the be all and end all of solving the problem of illegal immigration. Building the fence is merely the first step. The next step is eliminating the magnet that keeps them here so they leave effortlessly on their own terms. Enforce the laws. Stop giving them free healthcare, education, schooling, etc and their reason for being here is gone. And before we know it, so will they be.Zetterson on June 27, 2008 at 5:14 PM
well i was giving you the benefit of the doubt. if you knew terry was claiming brown skinned was used in a racist way by supporting her claim you are in effect claiming those who used “brown skinned” are racist as she did.
and the 2nd post. you have never claimed to be an “open borders” supporter. but since you posted this:
its not unreasonable for someone to believe you are. one thing is for sure. you are very inconsistent and trollish in the way you post.
chasdal on June 27, 2008 at 5:15 PM
Yes, Zett…I read your post. Again, it’s all about plugging holes, ending entitlements, etc. And when you do, they won’t come.
They’ll come. It’s always better here than there. And you seem to think that by yanking away all the freebies that the illegals here have now, they’ll simply pack up and go home. Will they?
That’s what I want to know. You know, McCain said one thing that still rings in my ears…about making a call to a serviceman in the war zone, thanking him for his service to this country, and btw we’re deporting your mother next week.
Do you want to make that call? Do you want to look some 10 year old kid in the eyes, and tell him “Get you and your family outta here!”? What happened to ompassionate conservatism?
JetBoy on June 27, 2008 at 5:18 PM
Ignore me then. I’ll do the same.
JetBoy on June 27, 2008 at 5:21 PM
No Jetboy isn’t. I’ve read enough of his posts to know that most of the time we’ll agree, its just this issue that he’s hung up on. He’s not a troll, he really believes in his position on this issue… unfortunately.
Zetterson on June 27, 2008 at 5:21 PM
BFD!!! read the money quote!! “but I’ll go back at it.”
thats is why we are pissed, that is why we cant vote for him. he LIED!! he said “i get it” he said “i’ll build your goddam fence” he has tried to play act that he understands we won and that he wont try to force this on us.
someone this obnoxious, pigheaded and arrogant should never be president. we elect a president to govern. someone who will continually try to pass laws by wearing down our resistance until we are just too tired of fighting against does not deserve our support.
vote for this liar. but the more he keeps saying that he’s gonna keep pushing this the more likely i’m gonna vote for the other liar. out of spite entirely
john mccain - the new york times endorsed republican candidate. that says it all.
chasdal on June 27, 2008 at 5:22 PM
The world has gotten much “smaller.” With this in mind, there are two main issues which (should) affect our immigration policy:
1. We are a nation competing in a global economy. Just as a pro sports franchise makes trades and drafts new talent to improve the team, we need to be able to SELECT from would-be immigrants those whose skills improve American competitiveness. If your team already has four punters on the roster, don’t draft another one. If your country already has so many laborers that wage pressures are downward, don’t import more. Bring in those who can fill a shortage rather than exacerbate a glut.
2. We are a nation at war. Defeating, or at least marginalizing (which is where I think we’re at right now) terrorist threats is crucial. Intelligent border and port security should have been a screaming priority right after 9/11. Instead we have nightmarish TSA problems in airports while multiplied thousands sneak over our borders and overstay their visas.
Neither candidate speaks to these issues. Neither candidate earns my support. I’m still hoping for some kind of deus ex machina event to happen between now and November.
innominatus on June 27, 2008 at 5:23 PM
:-P
Thanks…I think… ;-)
JetBoy on June 27, 2008 at 5:24 PM
Which of his multiple positions does he really believe in? JB:
Yikes.
flenser on June 27, 2008 at 5:25 PM
Are the parents of our servicemen immune to crime? If McCain was talking to a brave servicemember overseas fighting heroically for his country and his mother stole a car should she not be accountable for that crime?
Laws do not apply differently to different people based on what their kids are doing. The law is the law. Period. Sometimes doing the right this is hard. Sometimes doing the wrong thing is really easy. But that’s not how grownups make decisions now is it?
Zetterson on June 27, 2008 at 5:25 PM
Jetboy, how can you constantly question the worth of securing the border, and at the same time constantly say that you are all for doing just that?
flenser on June 27, 2008 at 5:26 PM
No problem. Sometimes people just forget the difference between arguing and fighting. Just be honest and we’ll be ok.
Zetterson on June 27, 2008 at 5:26 PM
Apparently, someone missed THIS…
JetBoy on June 27, 2008 at 5:28 PM
If we stop giving them jobs and free health care and education, sure, they’ll pack up and go home.
flenser on June 27, 2008 at 5:29 PM
To control immigration we need several things…
A strong border security, with a fence.
We need to begin to remove the incentives, one way is to make the punishment more severe then the reward.
We need to eliminate the hiring of illegal, where the companies are held accountable (and give them the tools to enforce).
We need to remove services, except for the most severe.
And then establish an organized way to assimilate a certain number, that meet our criteria…education, health, work experience, language, etc.
The one analogy of McCain calling a soldier and telling them they are deporting their mother, is cute, but case by case we can remedy those. That one case out of 20 million we can handle.
But to make a law based on one out of 20 million is ludicrous.
Immigration is welcome, and always has been…but only organized and controlled…and that means the “right” people are allowed under legal conditions…all else are criminals.
right2bright on June 27, 2008 at 5:31 PM
Geez, don’t tell me you bought that garbage. I suppose you believed him when he said we need amnesty “because we’re all Gods children” too.
McCain cares about servicemen in the war zone as much as his “good friend” Kerry does,
flenser on June 27, 2008 at 5:32 PM
Not near as sick as we are of reading your constant playing down of the situation.
Maybe in your little Pollyanna world in Indiana it was never an issue. Here in Arizona its been an issue for a LOT of years and law after law was passed only to have the Dems at the top do everything in their power to keep them from being enforced. All of them, and our heroic senator have been beholden to emplyers of cheap labor for a long time. We recently passed and have withstood challenges to an employer sanctions law. The AZ Supreme Court upheld it but it’s still getting challenged.
It is now escalating to the point where the Mexican drug cartels ar murdering people in Phoenix and telling their friends they’re ready to ambush police when they come. I have been hearing similar reports from El Paso and Laredo. Just how far do you propose letting it go??
Get your head out of the sand, will ya?
Shay on June 27, 2008 at 5:32 PM
i thought we were ignoring each other? but not if you think you can refute something i post? during the primary the nytimes said this. now of course NO ONE thought they would endorse john mccain in the general election. so it is telling that he is the republican they most favored. the first sentence of the endorsement says it all
and mccain had a link to the endorsement on his website for several days afterwards!! he only removed it when he realized how bad that actually made him look. a true republican automatically knows a nyt endorsement is bad thing! he’s a scoop jackson democrat at bes.
chasdal on June 27, 2008 at 5:35 PM
People who say things like this should have their right to vote revoked. At a minimum.
flenser on June 27, 2008 at 5:38 PM
Then we should start….today…right now, an all out effort to deport anyone, for any reason, families…jobs….economic and humanitarian reasons be damned…who doesn’t have the proper paperwork to be here.
Right? Armed National Guard at the borders, with orders to shoot to kill anyone who dare passes too. The law is the law. Shipping them back, they’ll only try again. May has well shoot ‘em.
We’d see a million Elian Gonzalez’s in a month, ripped from relatives homes and shipped out.
You know, if immigration is the big anti-McCain issue, then so be it. Keep ripping at him for it. And when President Obama is all you all hoped for, be proud.
JetBoy on June 27, 2008 at 5:38 PM
Jetboy, why do you question the worth of securing the border, at the same time as you say that you are all for securing the border?
flenser on June 27, 2008 at 5:40 PM
In Jetboys fondest dreams.
flenser on June 27, 2008 at 5:41 PM
Another specious argument …
Even the most hard core of us anti-illegal alien ‘xenophobes’ would be glad to have an exemption for the immediate families of active duty service members:
Madre, Padre, Esposa y los Ninos get to stay as long as the service member is on active duty. Upon completion of 4 years of active duty and an Honorable Discharge, The service member, spouse, and children get automatic citizenship. Parents get a permanent legal residence.
The House and Senate could make this a law in two days if it were something more than a convenient excuse to do nothing. Bush would gladly sign it.
I’d sing their praises on high.
But these ba$tardo$ are too busy campaigning to do anything that actually makes a difference.
LegendHasIt on June 27, 2008 at 5:42 PM
Why do I get the feeling that you think this would be a bad thing?
flenser on June 27, 2008 at 5:42 PM
And as for your first half Jetboy, I have a very hard time buying into the whole “we can’t do it” attitude. The Isralis are surround by tens of millions of Arabs who want nothing more than to eliminate them from the planet. Their enemies are driven with a religious passion to kill them. What do they do to protect themselves from the killers frothing at the mouth to come in? They build a wall. They carefully monitor who comes in. If they can keep back the flood of vicious, brainwashed killers than why are we so unable to keep back a flood of third worlders looking to pick some lettus and work as little John McCain slaves?
The realistic goal is not to keep every single illegal immigrant out of our country. It is to keep as many out as we possibly can. Every once in a while a Arab terrorist slips through the cracks of the Israli wall and blows up an internet cafe in Tel Aviv. But that doesn’t stop them from continuing to try and keep as many out as possible. We can do it if we have the will to do it. Do you want to do it Jetboy? Do you not feel ashamed that we are using the bottom of our neighboring country’s economic barrel as a form of defacto slave labor? Do you not care about the possibility that a terrorist can very easily smuggle a breifcase nuke into one of our major cities? Do you not worry about the anarchy that is derrived from a complete breakdown of a nation’s legal system. Are you not concerned by the Federal government’s complete deriliction of duty in regards to one of its stated purposes which is to protect the nation’s borders? Because if you answered any of those questions with “yes Zett, I do care about that stuff” then we are in agreement. We need to take every step necessary to ensure the security of our borders and eliminate as many illegal immigrants as we possibly can by taking every thoughtful step we possibly can. Other then that I have no strong feelings on the matter.
Zetterson on June 27, 2008 at 5:43 PM
I’m for a fence/wall. Just not the type previously described with high-tech this and that. Why throw so much money at something that “solves” maybe half the problem?
Give a basic wall a chance. But when so many come here other ways, what good is that wall to those here already?
You simply neglect the economic aspects and ramifications, which would be devastating.
JetBoy on June 27, 2008 at 5:45 PM
Q the violin. Jetboy, I’m for the most effective method. I think what you don’t understand is that people are spending their own private money to have illegals sent home. You didn’t know it but its coming out of your pocket book too. Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLJxmJZXgNI
It effects us in every area of life. We have all the moral authority we need in order to take the necessary steps to solve the problem. Build the wall. Enforce the law. Stop the handouts. Problem solved.
Zetterson on June 27, 2008 at 5:51 PM
Amen!
Terrye lives in rural Indiana where according to the 2000 Census “foreign born people” and “language other than English spoken at home” are under 10%. Here in Texas and your state of Arizona it is more like 35-40% (and that was in 2000. It is much worse now.)
I have pointed this out to Terrye numerous times but he/she never responds. Only gripes about how we are all “hysterical” on the subject. Terrye is lucky. Terrye stills lives in America. But some day, if left unchecked even rural Indiana is going to be a third world, socialistic hell hole and then I guess we can say “I tried to warn you….”
mrsmwp on June 27, 2008 at 5:54 PM
Great argument for slavery too. It was used back in those days with vigor. I think we were right to stop the practice though. Don’t you. You know, despite the economic hardships that it might have caused. And again, as for those economic ramifactions, I attach again for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLJxmJZXgNI
Zetterson on June 27, 2008 at 5:55 PM
From Medved’s “Six Big Lies About John McCain” CLICK HERE
An excerpt:
JetBoy on June 27, 2008 at 5:56 PM
Jetboy, go back and read what Allah and Brian wrote about this Medved piece. They absolutely ripped it to shreds. Don’t use that stuff to shift the argument. Stick to the straight up debate.
Zetterson on June 27, 2008 at 6:02 PM
Absolute Bullsh*t. I’ve lived here almost 40 years - long before McCain decided to get involved in AZ politics - and he’s done nothing of the sort. Medved doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Shay on June 27, 2008 at 6:03 PM
thats the same ole’ song and dance. but why are they so eager to give the illegal legal status? remember that happened on day one. they would get “z” status. and if they didnt apply and got arrested they would then be given “z” status. the enforcement “triggers” could be met by the DHS director saying “yep, we’ve met them” and chertoff was eager to do just that! and john mccain not supporting amnesty was BS! they tried to pull some semantic crap and claim that what they wanted wasnt amnesty. well we dont care what they call it we did not want it and we still dont!
chasdal on June 27, 2008 at 6:04 PM
That is an astonishingly stupid comment. Excuse me a few seconds, while I have a laugh at you…
OK, what about my comment was inaccurate? Are you really thinking Barr has a chance? Maybe Nader?
Read carefully, you tool. Our next president will be either John McCain or Barack Obama. That is a simple fact.
As stupid as you have just proven yourself to be, I still support your right to vote. Although, you should be scorned and or ridiculed. At a minimum
thebriand on June 27, 2008 at 6:05 PM
Actually I’ve been trying to find that piece again…Bryan and I used to argue this stuff too (surprise!)…I’ve searched HA with all the keywords I can think of, but no luck. If you know where it is, a link would be appreciated…
JetBoy on June 27, 2008 at 6:07 PM
I just looked for it myself. I guess it must have been a Bryan post. I don’t believe we have access to those anymore.
Zetterson on June 27, 2008 at 6:09 PM
you know, this seems to boil down to the mccain supporters only valid point is “obambi would be worse!!” and i’ll agree w/ that. but if i have to spend the next 4 years fighting against a president implementing liberal policies i want it to be a democrat. also, in 4 years we can try to get someone w/ views more in line w/ the party. most politicians wont mount a primary challenge to a sitting president unless he has really screwed the pooch (carter v. kennedy 1980)
i know you think obambi will destroy the world but thats just overheated rhetoric. he can do damage but no one president can completely ruin the country. the american people wont let that happen if push comes to shove. that “sky is falling” crap belongs on DU or dailyKos where they have been predicting the end of the world since Dec 2000
chasdal on June 27, 2008 at 6:10 PM
You know, I could deal with it, if it weren’t the same tired arguments, over and over, regardless of how many times they’re shown to be misleading at best.
Shay on June 27, 2008 at 6:10 PM
No…there’s “Bryan posts” still up in the ol’ archives…so it has to be there somewhere…
JetBoy on June 27, 2008 at 6:11 PM
Jetboy, you stopped answering my questions if favor of posting that crap Medved piece. I was looking forward to seeing how you planned on going about answering/commenting on them.
Zetterson on June 27, 2008 at 6:11 PM
You can call that piece “crap”, but it doesn’t make it so. What would you like me to answer…about that vid regarding hospitals and illegals?
JetBoy on June 27, 2008 at 6:15 PM
Hmmm. How about this bit.
That bit is inaccurate. Do you want to retract it?
flenser on June 27, 2008 at 6:21 PM
I asked several questions in my 5:43 post. Then I would also like you to address the economic aspect of cost expressed in that video. Numbers USA has done extensive work in this regard and by all measures the cost of illegals outweigh the economic benefits exponentially. Just listen to the impact upon that FLA hospital. Its not a unique situation. I live in MA and have a good friend who is a nurse at a small boston hospital. They have had to hire 65 Spanish/English translators over the past year. These illegals use the emergency rooms as the Primary Care Physicians. If you want to solve our high cost of health insurance look no further then the impact on hospital medical care expenses driven up by illegals. Healthcare accounts for 1/7th of our economy. That is enormous. I cannot even imagine the impact on a border state hospital.
Zetterson on June 27, 2008 at 6:23 PM
During the primaries there were commenters here who appeared to work for the campaigns of the various candidates. They were ready at a moment’s notice to challenge people who spoke ill of their candidate. They had talking points and parts of speeches that they pasted into all of their answers.
But I never noticed that about McCain. And I don’t see anyone here defending him in anything but a personal way.
Doesn’t this guy have people working for him that cruise these rooms sticking up for their candidate? It’s kind of amazing how little attention he’s showing to the conservative crowd here.
JiangxiDad on June 27, 2008 at 6:24 PM
JetBoy
But you’re all for the wall, right? I mean, you said you were, right? Right?
Uhhh …. For a guy who screams when people accuse you of not being for border security, you sure spend a lot of time attacking border security.
I’ll move on to the alleged “economic aspects and ramifications which would be devastating” if I can ever get you to stop doing a McCain and tell me your position on securing the border.
So, are you for or against securing the border? And don’t say both.
flenser on June 27, 2008 at 6:27 PM
HotAir’s search feature kind of sucks….
I think AP would need to do an SQL query or something.
FloatingRock on June 27, 2008 at 6:27 PM
You need to contemplate $6.00 gasoline, $7.00/bushel corn, $16 soybeans and wheat over the long haul, with the Obama solution all coming on the demand side. We’re just seeing the first ripples. Four years of that or worse will make this place something you don’t recognize and for which there will be no quick fix because the Dems won’t let it happen, just like now. Throw in a stripped down military and increased tax burden. This is pretty important stuff.
a capella on June 27, 2008 at 6:29 PM
Jetboy
Except for when you are going on about the devastating economic aspects and ramifications, I suppose.
Can we get a simple and direct answer from you on this? Because you are all over rthe place here.
flenser on June 27, 2008 at 6:30 PM
Not at all. It’s fact. There is NO viable third party.
As much as I’m dying to hear who you think may win this election, I’m off to my niece’s birthday party.
You would do yourself a service to retract your rights revoked comment, though. It’s straight out of Kos-land.
thebriand on June 27, 2008 at 6:31 PM
he is and the bad thing is he doesn’t have the intelligence to even be mildly entertaining.
right4life on June 27, 2008 at 6:33 PM
Medved
Well, that is a lie, plain and simple. McCain has fought for none of those things. In fact McCain has fought his own party to try to get “amnesty” for those who entered the country without authorization, as everbody knows.
flenser on June 27, 2008 at 6:33 PM
For.
First and foremost.
***********
Gentlemen, I must run. Zett, I’ll be back later this evening and reply to your questions. I don’t agree with you that immigrant labor amounts to de facto slave labor, that’s a bit of a stretch.
I’m not ducking out, just heading to dinner (and a few brews) and will be back on later.
Thanks all for the spirited debate so far!
JetBoy on June 27, 2008 at 6:35 PM
I was wondering last night if the McCainiacs score any McCain.com-points with their, “Obama is worse”, arguments. I would guess no, but then what other arguments could they make? Either “Obama is worse” is worth points or else nobody earns any.
FloatingRock on June 27, 2008 at 6:35 PM
Its the contradictions that leave me scratching my head too. He agrees that we should build a fence and we should have immigration laws but at the same time we can’t or its really hard or its too expensive or what about the babies or what about that poor soldier getting those mean laws enforced on his poor mom or what about how mean everybody will think we are or what about the lettus? THE LETTUS DAMMIT!!! But yeah, we should build the wall and enforce the laws. WHAT?? Kind of difficult to square that circle ain’t it.
Zetterson on June 27, 2008 at 6:36 PM
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