Bio-hydrogen!

This article was from last December. Anyone know more about the progress and prospects of this technology?

Clearly we need to ramp up nuclear and fossil-fuel production first, of course. What Sen. McCain needs to realize is that we don’t need ‘energy independence’—we need ENERGY ABUNDANCE!

Hydrogen power is a net energy loser UNLESS the energy to make hydrogen comes from a NUCLEAR power plant (for example, by electrolysis of water). McCain’s plans to build 45 or 100 nuclear power plants would dovetail nicely with hydrogen-powered cars, but Obama is clueless.

Steve Z on June 26, 2008 at 10:16 AM

That’s correct.

Only with massive amounts of nuclear energy could hydrogen be possible. Mr. Obama is dead set against nuclear. The Natural Gas to Hydrogen process that you outlined above not only results in a loss of energy, but is more polluting than just burning the natural gas in the first place (because during the conversion you mentioned, an amount of energy is lost to heat and unused.) Some would say that hydrogen could be made with wind or solar, which is true if you’re willing to convert hundreds of square miles of earth to solar and spend not billions, but tens of trillions of dollars. Seriously – it’s hard to imagine that Obama even proposed such a thing as competition to the Lexington Project. It actually indicates to me that he must think his supporters are not very good at understanding data.

I think Mr. Obama wants to project a bigness of thought, like Kennedy when he said we will put a man on the moon before the end of the decade. In reality, Obama’s plan would be the equivalent of Kennedy saying that we were going to put a man on Pluto before the end of the decade. That’s how far away we are from a real hydrogen future. Lexington, however, is technically doable, and a grand project that would dwarf the moon shot and be more along the lines of the Interstate Highway Project is size and scope. Like the Interstate Highway Project, it would lead to a boom in American productivity and commerce.

Ironically, Hydrogen will never be possible without a Lexington Project that comes first. Just like our computers that were using required the moon race before they could become possible.

Mr. Obama is calling for a hydrogen solution. That debate is over for the moment. We already know that it will take 30 years to get to that point.

Since Obama is long on wishful thinking, and short on science, he hasn’t figured out that it takes more energy to GET hydrogen than you get by burning it.

The most effective way to get hydrogen these days is by burning natural gas in an oxygen-starved flame, which yields hydrogen and carbon monoxide. The carbon monoxide can then be burned, but the entire process yields less net energy than simply burning the natural gas in normal air.

Any chemical engineer (like myself) knows that any chemical reaction yields (or requires) a fixed amount of energy, regardless of how you get there, and all processes designed to convert that energy to work lose some energy as heat.

So if you go
Natural gas –> carbon dioxide + water
or
Natural gas –> carbon monoxide + hydrogen
carbon monoxide –> carbon dioxide (in a gas plant)
hydrogen –> water (in a hydrogen-powered car)

the same total energy is released. But since converting natural gas to hydrogen, then burning hydrogen in a car, takes two steps instead of one, more energy is lost as heat than by simply burning the natural gas in a gas turbine.

Hydrogen power is a net energy loser UNLESS the energy to make hydrogen comes from a NUCLEAR power plant (for example, by electrolysis of water). McCain’s plans to build 45 or 100 nuclear power plants would dovetail nicely with hydrogen-powered cars, but Obama is clueless.

Great name for the project. You can certainly quibble with some of the details, but frankly I am pretty excited to see McCain come out swinging with such a comprehensive plan while all Barack Obama is doing is shouting platitudes about alternatiout alternatve fuels. Liberals have been yapping about alternative fuels since the Carter Administration, yet when they have been in power they have done nothing on energy at all.

catmman on June 25, 2008 at 7:01 PM

Megadittos, catman. Megadittos. McCain is crawling, kicking and screaming, into more realistic energy positions. I can only hope he continues to advance more enlightened positions, and that his progress is timely enough to win the election.

petefrt on June 25, 2008 at 7:13 PM

Yes, the Senator is being dragged, “kicking and screaming into more realistic energy positions.”

But he is still “stuck on stupid” about ‘climate change’, and that forces him into a logical contradiction: you can’t achieve anything close to ‘energy independence’ without burning lots and lots of our own fossil fuel, and you can’t do that without creating lots and lots of CO2.

The first thing the Senator has to do is convene a conference of climate realists, like Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-OK) and Fred Singer, huddle for a weekend, and emerge to announce that he now realizes that ‘climate change’ is not a problem, and that CO2 is not an evil ‘pollutant’ but a trace gas essential for life on Earth, and anyway, it turns out ‘global warming’ was called off back in 1998.

The second thing the Senator has to do is hie himself up to Alaska, and have the pretty Governess Sarah there take him to ANWR and show him the muck and mosquitos. And then, like Moses from the Mountain, the Senator can come back and stand next to Sarah and announce that ANWAR is not actually like the Grand Canyon, and is not so ‘pristine’ that we can’t drill there with our fantastic new ‘environmentally friendly’ technology, and anyway it turns out that even the caribou like our nice, warm pipelines.

And finally, the third thing he has to do is admit that ‘energy independence’ is a red herring. What we and all the world need is ‘energy abundance’: cheap and plentiful energy of all kinds. The more we can produce locally the better, but the American way of life depends on cheap, plentiful energy, and by golly we mean to have it.

And then the Senator will leave the pathetic Obambi and his eye-glazed followers gasping in the dust of the Straight-Talk Express.

If we can put a man on the moon in 10 years, we can achieve energy independence in 10 years: all it takes is the will to DO it!!!

I agree i’ve been saying for months now that you can’t conserve your way out of a recession. when you conserve you end up having less. you have smaller economies, smaller cars, smaller homes. You become less. As a country we need to grow our way out of this mess. with more oil suppklies, more electric generation, more technology.

We need more not less.

I guess the left wants china to drive the suv’s and have us ride the bicycles.

Only every seven years though.

baldilocks on June 25, 2008 at 9:48 PM

You owe me a new keyboard.

Spock would definitely be for drilling.

SouthernGent on June 25, 2008 at 6:27 PM

Only every seven years though.

” This would end what McCain calls “the largest transfer of wealth in the history of mankind,” and a chief component of our trade imbalance.”

Finally he might be getting it. That is the major reason to drill. It’s why we should have been drilling yesterday. It’s why he has to get his ass up to ANWR and start educating people and showing some leadership. We need oil now, not some hypothetical day in the future. Every thing else he is talking about is distant pie in the sky dependant on numerous Congress’s continued support. Sink a well and it is good til it runs dry.

Cap and trade is another moronic solution akin to ethanol. When Gore’s idiots line up for carbon credits so they personally can pollute with abandon you know you are being had. Cap and trade is basically institutionalizing Gore’s idiocy.

No worries however. If the Buffet’s and Soros’s etc are right and we are going into a severe recession none of this “make believe” will pass into law. Thank god.

Nuclear plants? Look, there goes a flying pig! The only way a Dem House and Senate passes one of those is if we have month long brown outs in California and New York. With Dem majorities what the “people” want is irrelevant.

If oil is going to $200 a barrel there is nothing being presented that can help prevent it except maybe, and its a big maybe, drilling in ANWR. If $200 happens we have $7 gas and, based on current corn prices, sharply higher food prices. Spring/Summer 09 is going to be very HOT.

I don’t think either candidate recognizes the potential civil unrest that could be brewing here and worldwide. They think this is just a matter of passing some bills and sloganeering. Yikes.

Ummm, how exactly does conservation INCREASE energy supplies?

Conservation simply extends current supply, it does nothing to give us more of what we need. I know that may sound counterintuitive, but it really isn’t.

If I don’t drive my vehicles for a day or two, what have I done to increase the supply of fuel in the country? Nothing. One would argue that I am extending the fuel I have, but not really. I’ll end up driving those miles eventually anyway – something comes up, extra work, an emergency, whatever.

One would then say “Well if EVERYONE did it” it would work. No, it wouldn’t for the same reasons. We would just be slapping a band-aid (postponing the inevitable) like we’re doing now.

And fuel use is down almost 3% from this time last year (because of higher fuel prices – people are already cutting back) – has our supply of oil/fuel increased? Have the costs for oil/fuel gone down?

No and No. I’m not saying conservation can’t help, but it is not a solution. Talking about it like it is is disengenuous at best.

At least he’s outlining a position of understanding that a problem exist and indicating a willingness to chase after solutions. I feel like any real movement towards less use and more domestic production puts on the right path economically, environmentally and to a future of self reliance.

Classic politico-double talk. Show me a politician from the last 30 years who hasn’t said or proposed these very same things?

We don’t need any more damn proposals. We need someone’s pair to drop, and DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE!

The solution to our energy and environmental problems is mathematical and could be solved on an excel spreadsheet by an engineer in about 20 minutes. I’ve actually worked through the exercise myself. It does not require this degree of debate. The solution(s) are found anywhere on a continuum between point 1, which calls for extreme conservation using no oil, and point 2, which calls for extreme production increases that localize the oil supply. The solution is in the middle of these two point somewhere (anywhere,) and the difficulty should be in executing the plan – not making the decision. McCain is solidly within this continuum of answers.

And in reality, I’m tired and fed-up with the Partisan politics. The Republicans are not calling for the solution to be without any form of conservation and John McCain is proving that with the Lexington Project. Conservatives want conservation in addition to increased production. I think that makes sense for now, and we can continue to try to move towards the side of conservation as we get our feet under us. Frankly, I just can’t tell what the Democrats want. I’ve been in contact with Senator Nelson from Florida (D), and he apparently wants to enact legislation that will make it difficult to speculate in oil futures. I told him that I didn’t think the Russians, OPEC, and Venezuela were going to follow his rules. And for that matter, I don’t think that even the Canadians, Mexicans or Europeans will. Where does that leave us?

Honestly, the actions of the politicians mentioned above, Palosie, Reed, Nelson, and Obama do not appear to be in the best interest of the nation, although they might be in the best interest of people who they represent. I do know this – their actions (the Democrats) are certainly in the best interest of oil producers and that’s not many people in this country. Most oil producers are found outside the US currently and are exemplified by organizations such as OPEC. Meanwhile, their actions are harmful to oil companies (not the same as producers,) and that does represent a lot of people in the US because anyone who owns any type of mutual fund, is in fact, an owner of an oil company. So I ask, who are they trying to help? I think the answer is themselves.

As for John McCain’s plan – it’s a home run. It’s between point 1 and 2 mentioned above. At least he’s outlining a position of understanding that a problem exist and indicating a willingness to chase after solutions. I feel like any real movement towards less use and more domestic production puts on the right path economically, environmentally and to a future of self reliance.

Mr. Obama is calling for a hydrogen solution. That debate is over for the moment. We already know that it will take 30 years to get to that point. We need bridge technologies and techniques to get us to the future that will allow for the solution he is proposing. To a novice, it might seem that he is proposing a more modern solution, but to an engineer and an expert of energy, it sounds like a conversation from the 70’s, while McCain’s Lexington Project idea is actually the far more likely scenario.

Nah, no bashing. Your just talking an elementary principles. Where and how practical it is, is different question.

Steve Z on June 25, 2008 at 7:18 PM

Ken Dirty Sanchez Salazar has already stalled/killed the project. The Western Slopers are not happy.

but we can’t build a large cannon to shoot every illegal immigrant back over the border?

Chuck Schick on June 25, 2008 at 7:02 PM

Are you insane? A bungee cord slingshot or trebuchet is far more environmentally friendly. Golly gosh man, think of the children!

Squid Shark on June 25, 2008 at 7:11 PM

Okay, I get it now. Couldn’t resist the opportunity to use the “p-word,” sorry. You mean that too much dense policy detail will cause voters to tune out. I agree but it’s good that the detail’s there for those who are interested.

I expect the video spots on this will be much more concise than the website (sure hope so, anyway).

Lexington, Virginia is a great town. Home of W&L and VMI. I hope to retire near there, someday. Kind of horsey without being too stuffy…

gridlock2 on June 25, 2008 at 7:29 PM

Been there several times. Horsey without stuffy is a good description. Also home, and final resting place, of Stonewall Jackson.

To JonRoss: I understand your concern about naming anything after a town in Massachusetts, even though that’s where our patriotism started. The only patriots left in that state now play football.

Steve Z on June 25, 2008 at 7:21 PM

I agree. Maybe if he called it the “New England Patriots Project” a lot more of us in the hinterlands would jump on board. Just a thought.

Not perfect, but better than the alternative. Indeed. Sometimes in history imperfect men have stepped up and become greater men then anyone could have ever guessed.

carbon_footprint on June 25, 2008 at 6:14 PM

Don’t go donating any money to put another face on Mt. Rushmore just yet.

McCain is worse than “fundamentally flawed” in the political sense. There has always been something very wrong with his character, which is one of extreme “me-first-and-only” self-entitlement. He was wrongfully admitted to the Naval Academy with bad grades ahead of more qualified applicants because his daddy and granddaddy were admirals. Rules that apply to ordinary people don’t apply to him. He thumbed his nose at Annapolis because he couldn’t be kicked out or flunked out, because he was JOHN MCCAIN, son and grandson of ADMIRALS. He ignored orders and crashed planes, because he couldn’t be disciplined as the son and grandson of admirals. He ditched the wife who stood by him, when he wanted a rich blonde chick young enough to be his daughter, who could finance his political ambition. He was caught taking bribes to his wife from the Keating 5, so tried to cover his tracks by imposing the McCain-Feingold nonsense on everyone else (laws only apply to everyone else, not JOHN MCCAIN). He entertained a blonde lobbyist in ways that worried his staff, and improperly pressured the FCC for her in exchange for …., because he is JOHN MCCAIN!!!!!!. He yells obscenities at other senators who questioned ramming his McCain-Kennedy amnesty through the Senate in the dead of night without debate, and screams he knows more about it than anyone else – because he is JOHN MCCAIN, a legend in his own mind !!!!!! He has secret “no press allowed meetings to praise Mexico as our dearest friend and closest neighbor, calling enforcement of the laws “Rhetoric”. As president, McCain try to rule by fiat and would make Hugo Chavez look like George Washington. Like the Alice in Wonderland Queen of Hearts, if any GOP congress critter disagreed with him as president -> “OFF WITH HIS HEAD- I’m JOHN MCCAIN, KING OF THE UNIVERSE”. There has always been something consistently very wrong with McCain’s character. Through it all, this lying unreliable self-aggrandizing megalomaniac poses as a “straight talker”, and is so sick, he probably believes it himself, because he is JOHN MCCAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!, son and grandson of ADMIRALS.
- JAM

Now he needs to go after oil shales, ANWR and build build build.