New Pew survey: 21% of atheists believe in God
posted at 4:41 pm on June 23, 2008 by Allahpundit
Share on Facebook | printer-friendly
Behold, my friends, the ultimate nuance.
Think that’s odd? Follow the link and scroll down to pages 9 and 11, where you’ll find 12% professing a belief in heaven and 10% praying at least once a week. (Note: That doesn’t mean meditation. That was posed in a separate question.) I can’t believe I have to ask this, but … do we actually need separate sects within atheism for those who are, um, actual atheists and those who aren’t?
Not much else will surprise you, particularly the coincidence between faith and politics on page 5, but do note the surprisingly low percentages for Jewish respondents on page 4. Is Judaism now more of a cultural institution than a religious one?
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: 1 2 Next »
I dont believe it.
Dash on June 23, 2008 at 4:43 PM
And apparently only 6% of agnostics are Other/Don’t Know.
Huh.
apollyonbob on June 23, 2008 at 4:43 PM
21% of atheists don’t know what atheism means OR yet another garbage poll with idiotic, meaningless results. Take your pick.
TheBigOldDog on June 23, 2008 at 4:44 PM
What?!??!??
thirteen28 on June 23, 2008 at 4:44 PM
Exhibit A: Long Island.
In the late 80’s I had a lengthy discussion with my Jewish roomate in which I failed to convince him that Israel existed in its present geolgraphical position during Jesus’ day. True story, Ivy League school.
TexasDan on June 23, 2008 at 4:46 PM
21% of gods don’t believe in atheists, either.
VolMagic on June 23, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Judaism has long been more cultural than religious, at least in the US. After all, look how many Jews are liberal Democrats, are for unlimited abortion rights, yada, yada, yada.
sondiehl on June 23, 2008 at 4:47 PM
This post is right in Allahs wheelwell
SoCalInfidel on June 23, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Well, I guess we’re even. I’m a christian and I don’t believe in god.
flipflop on June 23, 2008 at 4:48 PM
Have fun with that Schism. “You are not not going to heaven or hell because you don’t not believe in my God!”
trubble on June 23, 2008 at 4:48 PM
Gnosticism was once a powerful strain in religious belief. I think it is once again. The chart doesn’t even list “gnostics”, only agnostics. Maybe that is what is going on.
JiangxiDad on June 23, 2008 at 4:48 PM
Er, that is, 79% of gods don’t believe in atheists, either.
(You wanna know how to really kill a joke? Just what I did. Take notes, it will be on your final exam.)
VolMagic on June 23, 2008 at 4:48 PM
What’s funny is that in the poll they ask about certainty, and 8% of Athiests were “absolutely certain” in their belief in God.
bwhahuh?
apollyonbob on June 23, 2008 at 4:48 PM
FAIL
doubleplusundead on June 23, 2008 at 4:50 PM
Buford Gooch on June 23, 2008 at 4:51 PM
Isn’t that an oxymoron? Morons.
txsurveyor on June 23, 2008 at 4:52 PM
Well, I know Jews who eat bacon, so there.
In other words, no, this doesn’t make sense. Often, it seems people don’t care how they answer a poll, they’re just too polite to tell a pollster to slag off.
Merovign on June 23, 2008 at 4:52 PM
In other Pew Surveys: 32% of virgins have had sex and 24% of dead people are still alive.
MB4 on June 23, 2008 at 4:52 PM
Catch ‘em with their guard down for a second a see what you get?
Poor people.
BigD on June 23, 2008 at 4:52 PM
Yeah, I don’t get those numbers either. Why be religious if you don’t believe? That’s kinda the whole point unless you just like stale crackers and grape juice (for the Baptists).
Only the Mormons get 100%. No wonder they’re the only ones going to Heaven (to the easily offended, it’s just a South Park reference).
Esthier on June 23, 2008 at 4:54 PM
Or, maybe it has something to do with Obama.
BigD on June 23, 2008 at 4:54 PM
Sounds like You Folks have a sizable moron quotient like we do. It’s proof that created us equal. ;-)
baldilocks on June 23, 2008 at 4:55 PM
AP,
This is the poll I want you to have seared on your brain for recall every time we get one of those “Gulp: Bad answer to a single question in a single poll” headlines.
Consider this your daily tweaking.
Karl on June 23, 2008 at 4:55 PM
Already predicted by the best.
MadisonConservative on June 23, 2008 at 4:55 PM
I think many of these so-called atheists are in fact, anti-theists (they hate God for personal reasons). Either that or they ascribe God to either themselves or nature.
Anyhow, I think these Pew surveys are full of crap.
barry norris on June 23, 2008 at 4:56 PM
“The Ultimate Nuance” Too damned funny, AP.
But it’s really no more ridiculous than 83% of Jews don’t believe in God. Or even 97% of Catholics.
The only ones in the whole poll who had it right are the Mormons! I think everyone just needs a new Glossary of Religious terms…
Jaibones on June 23, 2008 at 4:57 PM
Yeah, and 21% of Lesbians are sexually atrracted to men only.
infidel65 on June 23, 2008 at 4:57 PM
Words don’t mean anything any more. You have “atheists” who believe in God and “Jews” who do not.
flenser on June 23, 2008 at 4:58 PM
Nah, that was “net” believe in god, not “not” believe in god.
Only an idiot would write “net believe in god” anyway. Let’s fire this moron.
JiangxiDad on June 23, 2008 at 5:00 PM
they must be gay.
JiangxiDad on June 23, 2008 at 5:01 PM
Why do religious people believe in different gods, madison?
Or do they all believe in the same god and just hate different sects?
alphie on June 23, 2008 at 5:01 PM
Best explaination of evolution EVUH! “retard frog-squirrel.” Bwahahahaha.
VolMagic on June 23, 2008 at 5:01 PM
This should not be surprising; we are entering a new Dark Age.
Think about it…
How many believe George Bush is responsible for oil prices?
How many believe in man-made global warming/climate change?
How many believe the government can run health care?
How many believe we should just leave the Islamists alone?
How many believe raising the minimum wage helps the poor?
How many believe that thinning forests will not reduce forest fires?
How many think they can use cell phones, or text while driving safely?
How many believe social security will be there for them in the future?
How many believe that if there is life in outer space, it must be of superior inteligence? … oh well, forget that thought.
The list goes on and on…
singlemalt_18 on June 23, 2008 at 5:02 PM
If a pollster asks you “Do you believe in God?” I believe the correct response is “Whose God? Your God…or mine?” Then you punch them in the face and run away, cackling like a madman.
thisaintnopicnic on June 23, 2008 at 5:02 PM
Reminds me of a girl I knew in college — one of the Unitarian atheist crowd.
I asked her about her beliefs/non-beliefs once, and she explained that she had been raised in a religious family and that her aunt had been diagnosed with cancer. Having been through a couple of fruitless rounds of treatment, the aunt was offered a radical experimental treatment with a low chance of success. She decided not to pursue it, telling her family that she had prayed about it and was at peace with the notion that God was calling her home. The aunt subsequently died (as do 100% of all human beings at some point).
My friend’s response? To declare her non-belief in God out of her anger that God had taken her aunt from her! In other words, she didn’t REALLY not believe in God — she was just good and pissed off at God, and therefore refused to worship him. But she joined the Unitarians because she felt guilty about not going to church on Sunday. If she were polled, I suspect she would be a part of that 21%.
And by the way — I’m not knocking Unitarians here — just recounting a true story that helps explain why you got some of the numbers about belief in God and prayer by supposed non-believers.
RhymesWithRight on June 23, 2008 at 5:03 PM
I don’t believe in PEW survey’s by 21%, give or take the margin of error. But I’m also pretty much agnostic with regards to the results of my survey of myself, PEW wise.
That makes about as much sense as this survey.
TheCulturalist on June 23, 2008 at 5:04 PM
Nature worship.
JiangxiDad on June 23, 2008 at 5:04 PM
Hey – if Christianity cannot define itself with regards to who is and is not Christian, then do you think you will get any better? After all, isn’t it intolerant or, non-freethinking of you, to deny those within your particular group, group status, just because they deny the very thing that defines the group? Come on.
nailinmyeye on June 23, 2008 at 5:05 PM
JWs: Five hour-long “meetings” per week — two on Sunday morning, one Tuesday night, two Thursday night is typical — plus an expectation to “publish” (proselytize) strangers for 10 hours per month (Saturday morning: knock, knock) with attendent short “service meetings” (sales rallies) beforehand, and only 82% remember that they believe in a personal God! What a waste of time.
The Muslim even split between personal God and impersonal force is interesting.
raybury on June 23, 2008 at 5:06 PM
I guess it is possible to be an atheist Christian
infidel65 on June 23, 2008 at 5:06 PM
Clearly these ‘atheists’ don’t know their arse from their elbow.
LimeyGeek on June 23, 2008 at 5:06 PM
Sure puts Polls in perspective, eh?
gmoonster on June 23, 2008 at 5:07 PM
This sort of question OUGHT to be used to set the ACTUAL error bars on data of this sort.
Of course, that would mean recognizing the relative worthlessness of such polls — so don’t look for the folks who make their living taking such polls to reach that conclusion.
ClintACK on June 23, 2008 at 5:07 PM
HERESY!
shick on June 23, 2008 at 5:07 PM
Wow. I’m thinking that 21% of atheists polled for this survey are frakking morons. Maybe if they weren’t so busy teaching sex in schools, they’d have better reading and listening comprehension skills.
Reason number 5674 why I’m ashamed of my fellow non-believers. I guess I can’t even call them that any more.
Anna on June 23, 2008 at 5:07 PM
P.S. Didn’t South Park already do the Athiest sectarianism thing? There were fuzzy creatures of some sort, and Richard Dawkins acting like a jerk.
raybury on June 23, 2008 at 5:07 PM
So, AP you’re one of those doctrinaire atheists, eh?
Pshaw, this demand that atheists not be deists is just outrageous.
SteveMG on June 23, 2008 at 5:07 PM
… and 21% of Red Sox fans just love the Yankees.
infidel65 on June 23, 2008 at 5:08 PM
Pardon me for being simplistic, but I am wondering how it is that anything less than 100% of any theistic religious sect would believe in God, since what/whom else would they worship?
BigD on June 23, 2008 at 5:08 PM
Perhaps that 21% are IDer’s who believe “God” is an alien.
Blacklake on June 23, 2008 at 5:08 PM
…or are they people that use the term ‘God’ yet do not believe in supernatural beings, rather a ‘god-as-metaphor’.
LimeyGeek on June 23, 2008 at 5:09 PM
Yeah, plenty of people are pissed off at God so they don’t believe anymore. Kinda funny when you think about it.
Also, it’s easy to be an atheist if you were once a majority Christian. You don’t get as much flack as an atheist who was a Jew, for ex. That’s because believers still think you are what you started as, just temporarily screwed up. Like AP talks about christmas presents and stuff. Makes him like one of the flock again.
JiangxiDad on June 23, 2008 at 5:10 PM
Owwww… my brain.
AbaddonsReign on June 23, 2008 at 5:10 PM
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
doubleplusundead on June 23, 2008 at 5:11 PM
The lack of identification of Judaism, & Israel amongst American Jewish youth is considered a fairly serious crisis in Judaism that is being discussed / analyzed by our best minds, both religious & secular, as there is much more to Judaism than bagels & lox or Heeb t-shirts.. But Jewish Americans & Canadians face challenges we as a people have rarely known, real freedom and acceptance in a sovereign non-Jewish state.
saus on June 23, 2008 at 5:11 PM
I read a book years ago that had people go to the heaven they believed in when they died. The Atheists went Poof.
NO HEAVEN FOR YOU! — the afterlife nazi
TheCulturalist on June 23, 2008 at 5:11 PM
This is actually very fascinating, and it serves a great example of the reality that no matter what one believes – or in this case, doesn’t believe – human nature will inevitably find a way to manifest itself in the very same ways it does in every other area. Progressive theologians vs. Orthodox theologians. RINOs vs. True Conservatives. And now we see AINOs (pronounce like “I-Knows”) vs. True Atheists. Heh! Have fun defending the “faith” from all those heretics who are praying to that which they believe not to exist.
Weight of Glory on June 23, 2008 at 5:11 PM
It’s possible that there are people who only consider themselves religious because of their parents. Either way it is strange.
Maybe English wasn’t their first language.
Esthier on June 23, 2008 at 5:12 PM
Some of us don’t even believe in atheists.
Esthier on June 23, 2008 at 5:14 PM
Crap, I see Allah beat me to the Princess Bride reference by a mile. There’s a reason only one of us pulls in Teh Crazy Blog Money(TM)…
doubleplusundead on June 23, 2008 at 5:15 PM
Believe in me. You know you want to. : )
Anna on June 23, 2008 at 5:15 PM
God bless America.
JiangxiDad on June 23, 2008 at 5:15 PM
What’s with the stupid “Is the bible literal” question? Some parts are, some parts aren’t. File this under “polls are worthless”.
Darth Executor on June 23, 2008 at 5:16 PM
I describe myself as a “Christian Atheist”, sort of in the same vein as Oriana Fallaci. I don’t believe in omnipotent bearded guy in the sky, but I believe that there was a guy named Jesus a couple thousand years ago who was worth listening to.
flipflop on June 23, 2008 at 5:17 PM
Clever and true.
JiangxiDad on June 23, 2008 at 5:18 PM
Yeah, I believe that Jesus existed as well, and that he was a man to behold, but I don’t think that would make us Christian. I think that line is crossed when you start thinking of the man as something more than merely mortal.
Anna on June 23, 2008 at 5:19 PM
W
Darth, thank you for that.
BigD on June 23, 2008 at 5:20 PM
1. With the current national emphasis on feeeelllings and not truth and facts, this result doesn’t surprise me one bit. “What matters isn’t the definition of atheist you meanies… (*sob*!) I should be able to call myself whatever I want and define my own beliefs cause my spirituality is free and not like organized religion which is evil even though I don’t believe in evil and…” *dissolves in a puddle of relativist goo* :)
2. Hmm.. I think….that I’ll get upset about this right after the 10-30% of people who call themselves “Catholic” stop saying when polled that they don’t believe Jesus really rose from the dead, they don’t believe in the Trinity, that they don’t believe Jesus is really present in the Eucharist, etc. :) *trying to keep a positive attitude*
inviolet on June 23, 2008 at 5:23 PM
Oh, sort of like Obamians? :-)
flipflop on June 23, 2008 at 5:23 PM
It’s tempting. :)
Yeah, the word Christian initially meant someone who belonged to Christ. Then again, if someone is genuinely following Christ, the word can be applicable.
I just can’t figure out how you’d do that without believing Christ is God unless you’re basing your information on something other than the Bible.
Esthier on June 23, 2008 at 5:25 PM
Some believe all of it is.
Thanks. I like being called clever.
Esthier on June 23, 2008 at 5:29 PM
Yeah, sorts of, but it’s NOT real dictionary-defined Judaism. They just invented something new (Race? Culture?) and slapped the name over it.
Aristotle on June 23, 2008 at 5:31 PM
Atheists are becoming more and more like Jews. Two atheists, three opinions.
As for Jews, there are two contradictory trends. First, the well known assimilation and movement away from Judaism, which is largely reflected in the poll numbers. Second, greater religiosity among those who remain attached. (There’s a mini-trend in Reform Judaism that’s pushing for more traditional observance in some respects, and there’s an increase in the number of Orthodox from increased childbirth and from outreach.)
Attila (Pillage Idiot) on June 23, 2008 at 5:32 PM
When I learned about Reiki in massage school, I found out that Jesus was considered a holy man by Buddists, and that there are books out there that seek to explain a Jesus-Budda connection. So one could theoretically follow Christ without having a Christian connection. However, there aren’t too many Americans that would know this, and I don’t think that’s what the survey was asking.
Of course, Reiki has since been connected with Christianity to give it a more palatable appeal… but that’s a whole-nother deal.
Anna on June 23, 2008 at 5:35 PM
I’m sorry folks, but there is no difference here between “literal” and “true.” Parts of the Bible are literal, parts of the Bible are metaphorical. Parts of it are knowable; parts of it are not.
Nobody said it wasn’t true.
BigD on June 23, 2008 at 5:35 PM
Cause:
Effect:
Jews don’t convert, but paradoxically they thank the majority Christian community for the refuge given to them in the US by becoming less religious.
JiangxiDad on June 23, 2008 at 5:38 PM
I was referring to Esthier’s comment about religious people not believing in atheist–it was pithy, but had nothing to do with the bible.
JiangxiDad on June 23, 2008 at 5:40 PM
Awakening.
labrat on June 23, 2008 at 5:45 PM
Man, some people are never happy!
On a serious note – is it possible to be a “Jewish atheist”, or should the term Jewish be confined to religious believers in the the Jewish faith?
flenser on June 23, 2008 at 5:46 PM
Well, that goes to show how it is all in how you read a thing. So tell me, when Esthier said, “Some believe all of it is,” was she saying that she believed all of the Bible was literal or that everything is worthless?
BigD on June 23, 2008 at 5:48 PM
Is it time for an Atheist reformation?
Lehosh on June 23, 2008 at 5:51 PM
It’s sort of like vegans versus the vegetarians, eh?
tree hugging sister on June 23, 2008 at 5:52 PM
I know Catholics who attend mass on a regular basis but who don’t believe really in God, yet they consider themselves Catholic. I guess they are “culturally Catholic”.
flenser on June 23, 2008 at 5:52 PM
You messed up the quotes a little. I said that some people believe all of it is literal, which is true. Some people believe that every single word can (and should be) be interpreted literally.
I’m not saying those people are right. I’m just saying that they exist.
And the “clever and true” comment was JiangxiDad acknowledging my greatness for a completely different comment that has nothing to do with the Bible.
I figured someone here would be able to answer my implied question.
I personally believe that all religions are connected and would even make an argument to include philosophies in there as well. We’re just not that original as humans, so it makes sense to me that our quests to find the Truth would lead us down similar paths.
Esthier on June 23, 2008 at 5:54 PM
AP as the Martin Luther of atheists?
Repeat after me AP, “Here I type, I can do no other.”
Should be interesting.
SteveMG on June 23, 2008 at 5:56 PM
That decision has always been made by the larger, non-Jewish community. Gershom Scholem (I think) wrote an excellent piece on why a Jew is always a Jew, no matter what he thinks or does or says or claims.
JiangxiDad on June 23, 2008 at 5:57 PM
It always amazes me to see polls like this. Every person who calls himself religious should believe in God, either as a personal being or impersonal force. Otherwise, you’re an atheist or agnostic. The numbers in those columns should read 100%, 100%, 100%, etc, etc. Same thing for the other questions, like Heaven & Hell.
All this means is that there’s a bunch of people who call themselves religious but really aren’t, and are functionally atheist. And there’s a bunch of people who call themselves atheist but are really stupid, and don’t know what it means.
It DOES all go back to South Park, but not to the episodes about atheism. Rather, it goes back to the 9/11 conspiracy episode, where they say: “One quarter of the people are retarted.” One quarter, and rising.
Sydney Carton on June 23, 2008 at 5:59 PM
Dear Esthier:
I am sorry that I spent so much time trying to figure out what you meant and suggest that you simply become a Unitarian. They believe in pretty much nothing but themselves, although they want desperately to believe there is a God just in case.
BigD on June 23, 2008 at 5:59 PM
I haven’t read the rest of the thread, so I don’t know if anybody has said this already…but is it possible these are atheists who are also Obama supporters? Think about it.
malan89 on June 23, 2008 at 6:01 PM
I think this reflects a shift in popular usage of the word atheist. Apparently it’s starting to take on a more generic sense of extreme dissatisfaction with organized religion in addition to non-belief. It also reflects that some people have more uncertain and complex views on god than can be neatly categorized.
Or 21% of respondents were kinda dumb. Ok, nevermind about the first part.
RightOFLeft on June 23, 2008 at 6:02 PM
lol
JiangxiDad on June 23, 2008 at 6:03 PM
My maternal grandfather once told me that our Old World relatives (the ones that survived) still considered those of us in America Jewish, even though my great-grandparents converted. I suppose they still think so too.
Anna on June 23, 2008 at 6:03 PM
Well, those dead people are only alive in the sense that they can (and do) still vote in Chicago.
ReubenJCogburn on June 23, 2008 at 6:04 PM
HA! Classic.
Weight of Glory on June 23, 2008 at 6:05 PM
for sure.
JiangxiDad on June 23, 2008 at 6:05 PM
Hmmmmmmmm.
Weight of Glory on June 23, 2008 at 6:06 PM
Not to be a self-promoter, but yeah, we thought of it.
BigD on June 23, 2008 at 6:09 PM
By Michael Paulson
Globe Staff / June 22, 2008
American Judaism has a boy problem.
After several thousand years in which women were relegated to the sidelines of worship and community leadership, scholars and denominational leaders now say that women are significantly outnumbering men in numerous key segments of non-Orthodox Jewish community life.
At the Reform movement’s seminary, 60 percent of the rabbinical students and 84 percent of those studying to become cantors are female. Girls are outnumbering boys by as much as 2 to 1 among adolescents in youth group programs and summer camps, while women outnumber men at worship and in a variety of congregational leadership roles, according to the Union for Reform Judaism.
The evidence is everywhere. At Temple Sinai in Sharon, nine of the 11 members of this year’s confirmation class were girls. At Temple Beth David in Canton, last Saturday’s Bible study drew 11 women and no men. At Temple Isaiah in Lexington, the executive board for the last year had eight women and one man. And at the Prozdor, an intensive supplementary high school program at Hebrew College in Newton, 59 percent of the students are female.
“After bar mitzvah, the boys just drop out,” said Sylvia Barack Fishman, a professor of contemporary Jewish life at Brandeis University and the coauthor of a study on “Gender Imbalance in American Jewish Life,” which was publicly released last week.
“American Jewish boys and men have fewer connections to Jews and Judaism in almost every venue and in every age, from school-age children through the adult years,” the study declares. “Contemporary liberal American Judaism, although supposedly egalitarian, is visibly and substantially feminized.”
rokemronnie on June 23, 2008 at 6:12 PM
Going further, DICTIONARY FAIL.
If you can’t be bothered to look up the meanings of the labels you’re claiming for yourself, YOU FAIL.
TheUnrepentantGeek on June 23, 2008 at 6:14 PM
JiangxiDad on June 23, 2008 at 6:15 PM
Comment pages: 1 2 Next »