OK…!

“You may also wish to look closer at 2 signers of the Constitution for their relationships to theologians of the time. Daniel Carroll was the brother of John Carroll, the first Catholic bishop in the U.S., and their family motto was “Strong in Faith and War.” William Samuel Johnson was the son of an influential Anglican clergyman. cs89 on June 25, 2008 at 9:09 PM

My dear cs89, I have come here first for enlightenment and secondly for entertainment.

You dear madam or sir have provided bothe.

I salute you…!

BTW: Dose the number “89” in your handle “cs89” have any relationship to a significant period in your sojourn here on earth or a group to which you are or have been associated?

I certainly will not be offended if you defer.

“…A larger number of his students were influential founders, including Madison who studied closely with him. cs89 on June 25, 2008 at 9:09 PM

James spoke thusly about that…

“The purpose of the Separation of Church and State is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries,” James Madison, 1803.

So while James may have been a student of the goode preacher, John Witherspoon; he apparently didn’t attend all his lectures?

Damn, that unholy grog at the “Boar and Hound” on First Street! :)

Also, it is not necessarily a “religious” objection that people have against intentional abortion of innocent human beings during their embryonic and/or fetal development, and during their birth, as in late term, induced birth abortions. It is actually a moral objection to begin with.

Obama comes off as a spiteful, vindictive man, hiding behind a veneer of populism which has been produced by the news media, Hollywood, and the left, which comprises the predominant population of these subcultures. He, like John Kerry, employs twisted logic to justify remaining silent about abortion and not opposing it, firmly, strongly, loudly.

Like John Kerry, Obama speaks out the back of his head, issuing empty words “I personally oppose abortion, but I won’t object to anyone else supporting abortion, and I won’t object to anyone else aborting an innocent child.”

Has he actually handed Obama certain victory in November?

Oh Oooo !

Yeah baby.If anyone ever doubted it, this proves it

Christian Jihad!!!!

AprilOrit on June 25, 2008 at 10:16 PM

You were at pains to claim you’re not a troll, and then you post nonsense like this.

I guess I missed the part where Dobson encouraged Christians to launch suicide attacks against Democrats in general or Obama in particular.

Yeah baby.

Christian Jihad!!!!

AprilOrit on June 25, 2008 at 10:16 PM

Hi Troll!

I’ve tried to engage your argument a few times about “life of the mother” cases on abortion, but you keep ducking and popping up with other provocative statements like this.

I’d think a “moderate Jew” would be a little careful of the “Jihad” term, but whatever.

Wanna show us a real “does mommy or baby die” example? Or are you gonna hide out for a while, then pop back up with another provocative statement when the mood strikes you?

I am so tired of this “Christians, shut up and go to the back of the bus!!”

Just who the heck does this AP think he is to trash Dobson, a great conservative Christian leader? For far too long, religious conservatives have been told that we can give money and work the elections, but can’t have any say in politics.

Enough of this Back-Of-The-Bus mentality. If you aren’t willing for us to have a say in policy, you don’t need my money or labor. I’m sure some third party would like both.

A pox on your shrinking house.

pelajus on June 25, 2008 at 3:32 PM

Yeah baby.

Christian Jihad!!!!

It is obvious that you don’t have to be an “ordained theologian” to know more about the Bible than Obama. You just need to have attended a church that actually teaches what’s in it.

Rose on June 25, 2008 at 7:38 PM

Totally agree — I know many of the children I’ve taught at church are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay mo’ bettah at knowing – and way more importantly – living what they’ve learned.

There was good reason the founding fathers did not invite theocrats to the Constitutional Convention.

There was even better reason not to ask ministers, priests and other dogmatic theologians of any stripe; to sign the document.

Why dear Maxx do you think that might be?

J_Gocht on June 25, 2008 at 1:48 PM

While you are correct that none of the signers of the Constitution were ordained ministers, I think you’re pushing your point much farther than the evidence allows.

As I’ve noted before, John Witherspoon did sign the Declaration of Independence. He was an ordained Presbyterian minister, and the president of the College of New Jersey (later Princeton). A larger number of his students were influential founders, including Madison who studied closely with him.

You may also wish to look closer at 2 signers of the Constitution for their relationships to theologians of the time. Daniel Carroll was the brother of John Carroll, the first Catholic bishop in the U.S., and their family motto was “Strong in Faith and War.” William Samuel Johnson was the son of an influential Anglican clergyman.

If you would like to continue to argue that the founders took pains to exclude “ministers, priests and dogmatic theologians of any stripe” from signing the document, I’m afraid a little evidence may be required for a convincing argument.

“Obama made a bigger blunder than he realizes by picking a fight with Dr. James Dobson about religion…”

“…Dobson is rather neutral toward McCain, but he knows his Bible, and is also a trained psychologist, and could clean Obama’s clock in any debate about religion,…” Steve Z on June 25, 2008 at 6:04 PM

Methinks the olde Dobber was the one who threw the glove?

I’m certain you’re also aware that Dobson is not an ordained theologian?

If Obama continues down this path, Dobson could unleash a huge Evangelical backlash against Obama, swaying lots of lukewarm voters to vote against Obama, who will vote for McCain as the not-Obama candidate.

McCain could play into this by repeating his promise to appoint “strict-constructionist” judges to the Supreme Court (who could overturn Roe v. Wade), while ducking the religion issue and letting Dobson scare Christian voters toward McCain. McCain probably knows better (now) than to discuss religion during a Presidential campaign–his speech in Virginia in 2000 which dissed religious “fanatics” probably cost him the nomination that year–he won’t make THAT mistake again!

Just who the heck does this AP think he is to trash Dobson, a great conservative Christian leader? For far too long, religious conservatives have been told that we can give money and work the elections, but can’t have any say in politics.

Enough of this Back-Of-The-Bus mentality. If you aren’t willing for us to have a say in policy, you don’t need my money or labor. I’m sure some third party would like both.

A pox on your shrinking house.

Dobson falsely suggested … Obama accused Dobson of “want[ing] to expel people who are not Christians” from the U.S.

“Maxx on June 25, 2008 at 9:51 AM

There was good reason the founding fathers did not invite theocrats to the Constitutional Convention.

There was even better reason not to ask ministers, priests and other dogmatic theologians of any stripe; to sign the document.

Why dear Maxx do you think that might be?

Wow, that is amazing. That has never happened before.

But, back to the original thread, Dobson has done a great service by pointing out Obama’s hypocrisy to all those who have a rudimentary understanding of the Bible.

Obama claims that Dobson was “making things up”, but Obama made up lots of things, even about his own life–he claimed that his parents conceived him in Selma, then oops, he was four years old at the time. Obama claimed his hermit-in-the-attic uncle liberated Auschwitz, oops, it was his great-uncle who liberated Buchenwald. Obama claimed in an ad that he passed a bill for veterans, and didn’t even vote for it. Bill Clinton was right–Obama does tell fairy tales!

Obama claims to be a Christian, but he learned his “Christianity” from Jeremiah Wright, who claimed that “God d@mn America” was in the Bible. Dear voters: any REAL Christian would have quit Wright’s church after Wright’s first or second hateful sermon, and not waited 20 years! Obama’s “god” is Jeremiah Wright, and he might not be a Muslim, but he is not yet a Christian!

Obama claimed that his “faith” leads him to oppose abortion, but where was his faith when he voted against a bill in the Illinois Senate which would force a doctor to care for a newborn baby who survived an abortion attempt? What “faith” condones infanticide?

Saint James to Obama: Faith without works is dead.

Hopefully Dr. Dobson will be speaking out to make this clear to the American people before November.

For this you have every inducement of sympathy and interest. Citizens, by birth or choice, of a common country, that country has a right to concentrate your affections. The name of American, which belongs to you in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of patriotism more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion, manners, habits, and political principles. You have in a common cause fought and triumphed together; the independence and liberty you possess are the work of joint counsels, and joint efforts of common dangers, sufferings, and successes.

Well you are wrong on both counts J_Gocht. The vast majority of people at the time of the founding of this nation were Christian, that’s a fact common knowledge fact, deal with it. In fact this country is to this very day a vast majority of Christians, something around seventy percent.

There is no separation of Church and State to be found in the U.S. Constitution. Try looking for it sometime, it is not there.

However you might be thinking of the Russian Constitution:

CONSTITUTION OF THE UNION OF SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLICS

ARTICLE 52: Citizens of the USSR are guaranteed freedom of conscience, that is, the right to profess or not to profess any religion, and to conduct religious worship or atheistic propaganda. Incitement of hostility or hatred on religious grounds is prohibited. In the USSR, the church is separated from the state, and the school from the church.