Quote of the day
posted at 10:55 pm on June 18, 2008 by Allahpundit
“I would not condemn these people. Ordinary people aren’t going to tackle a psychotic.”
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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil…ah, to hell with it!
AUINSC on June 18, 2008 at 11:00 PM
Ahh…the Kitty Genovese Theory. Although concealed carry would’ve certainly helped.
MB007 on June 18, 2008 at 11:00 PM
They didn’t have anything to stop him with? Tire Iron? Doesn’t CA have conceal carry laws or is it illegal there to keep a weapon in your vehicle?
The 12 guage in my truck would have done the job right dandy like.
Limerick on June 18, 2008 at 11:04 PM
Nobody knows what they would do in that situation, but I pray to God that I would have the guts and wherewithal to do something. I think it would destroy me to know that I stood there and watched something like that, and did nothing. It would haunt me forever.
p40tiger on June 18, 2008 at 11:05 PM
So Californians are generally cowards and local law enforcement knows it. Got it.
NotCoach on June 18, 2008 at 11:08 PM
One shot one kill.
Johan Klaus on June 18, 2008 at 11:09 PM
Well, with our educational system striving to produce generation after generation of castrated, pacifist pansies, is this surprising? I would have broken that guy’s face in two freaking seconds if I had seen him being violent toward a child and I’ll teach and train my sons to have the skills and confidence to do the same if the situation calls for it.
Metro on June 18, 2008 at 11:09 PM
Sometimes you can’t just Hope for a Change you have to actually DO something to get results..
Chakra Hammer on June 18, 2008 at 11:15 PM
I do and have the assault and battery record to prove it..
I beat the hell of a guy that was beating up a girl and i’m the one that got into trouble! LOL
I’d do it again.
Chakra Hammer on June 18, 2008 at 11:18 PM
I thought at times like that your “adrenelin” was supposed to kick in and give you superhuman abilities. What were these people, zombies? Shamefull.
atxcowgirl on June 18, 2008 at 11:19 PM
I have often asked myelf, usually in the context of thinking about Columbine or VA Tech, if I would have tackled the perpetrator.
OneGyT on June 18, 2008 at 11:20 PM
Indeed. In the absence of a gun, I would have tried to ram him with the car.
What was with the voluntary fire fighter? He’s the inept in this scene. Apparently the phone of the first party who saw him didn’t work and they couldn’t call 911 until a second party arrived.
Gratuitous projection.
Entelechy on June 18, 2008 at 11:22 PM
Maybe the bystanders were libs who saw it only as a retro-active abortion. Besides, the baby was a minority, deep down inside, libs hate minorities and want less of them around (until election time, of course).
Tammy Bruce explains this in great detail in her book, The New American Revolution. When she was with NOW in Ca., there were abortion doctors in the ghettoes and barrios of L.A. who were acidentally killing their patients. Tammy, being a true feminist, thought it might be a good idea to do something about this, but the NOW chapter disagreed, saying that it was more important that black and hispanic women were able to have abortions, to keep the minority populations low. Sickening.
Tony737 on June 18, 2008 at 11:23 PM
I was surprised the evolution discovery today wasn’t the quote of the day. 1000 comment-mania!
lorien1973 on June 18, 2008 at 11:25 PM
I can understand people being hesitant to “get involved” in other circumstances but would think that the basic instinct of righteous indignation if nothing else would kick in when such a young and helpless child was being severely beaten.
If something like this would not be a call to action, what would be?
MB4 on June 18, 2008 at 11:25 PM
You already know the answer, even if you don’t know you do.
When the shinola hits the fan some just act. There isn’t any thinking. Hard to explain. I’m not saying it is bravery, or empathy, or survival instincts, in fact I really don’t know what to call it. The brain just dosn’t go through a audit. Some people act, or react, some don’t. But you already know what you would do, you just think you don’t. Not trying to be a wiseguy.
Limerick on June 18, 2008 at 11:28 PM
I beat the hell of a guy that was beating up a girl and i’m the one that got into trouble! – Chakra
How DARE you defend that woman?! What are you implying? That women are WEAK and need your help? SEXIST!
There’s gotta be something wrong with our system when you get busted for beating up a woman beater. Anyway, good job Chakra, I hope ya messed him up bad.
Tony737 on June 18, 2008 at 11:28 PM
Bystanders doing nothing as a son is terrorized by his father. So-called experts explaining why it is normal to do nothing. Enforcement officers trying to understand why the father brutalized his son.
Watching terrorism and doing nothing.
Rationalizing why that’s OK.
Fixated on understanding the reasoning of a terrorist.
What a familiar ring.
Any way you look at it, small scale or big picture, it’s called Liberalism. And it’s spreading like wildfire.
fogw on June 18, 2008 at 11:29 PM
I wish some little old lady was out for
a drive,seen this sick act,pulled over,
and from the glove box pulled out her Colt
Combat Commander,45 acp and do what had
to be done!
canopfor on June 18, 2008 at 11:30 PM
I know a woman who walked past a man beating his girlfriend. She said, “Gee, big brave man, picking on a woman” or words to that effect.
Then he hit her. Badly.
Sorry, but if I were in the situation, and it wasn’t my child, yes, I’d call 911. But I don’t know if I’d do anything else. I wish I could say I would. But I don’t know.
Meryl Yourish on June 18, 2008 at 11:35 PM
fogw, yes, indeed. Also, that people are not accountable and are not leaders. Any one of us would have huddled all present, instructed the others to charge the guy, or encircle the kid, even without guns. He couldn’t have beaten all at the same time.
Yes, I know, some of you will say “but E, what if he had a gun”. Well, it would have become evident. He couldn’t have shot all. MB4 is right – where are our better instincts?
Wussitude will kill us all – no one will be left to analyze and to councel.
Entelechy on June 18, 2008 at 11:37 PM
yea, my 1st offense so no jail time or anything..
just got community service and probation.. :}
He has in the hospital for awhile i guess.
Chakra Hammer on June 18, 2008 at 11:38 PM
Not with this case specifically, but just in general, the lesson Americans learn everyday in the big city is that no good deed goes unpunished. That has an effect.
There are cases where a man has pretended to beat a woman in the street, and when someone stops their car to break it up, they’ll open their car door and get carjacked by a third man.
RBMN on June 18, 2008 at 11:41 PM
By the way, does anyone know what the “Rev.” Jeremiah Wright has been doing lately???
Hmmm….
ColtsFan on June 18, 2008 at 11:44 PM
My wife just read the story. She turned around, marched out to her car and pulled the Louisville Slugger out of the trunk and put it in her back seat. Now I gotta tell ya, this lady is Dharma in the flesh. She wouldn’t hurt a fire ant, but I guarandamnteeya she’d have swung for the fences on this fella.
Limerick on June 18, 2008 at 11:45 PM
If I had my wife and children with me, my first response would be to make sure they are safe.
If I was by myself, I believe I’d have been fast and furious.
Saltysam on June 18, 2008 at 11:45 PM
This indicates to me that the very fact that I need to ask means I wouldn’t act. This is the conclusion I’ve often come to myself and it scares me. Hopefully if such a situation ever arises a sensible person will be with me and implore me to “do something”.
OneGyT on June 18, 2008 at 11:49 PM
This makes me think of the flight on 9/11 that was brought down by passengers in Pennsylvania.
None of the passengers that took action against the hijackers did so on his lonesome. Someone basically said, I’ll act if you do and others joined in.
All it would have taken was for just one person to say, “We have got to stop that monster, he may kill that child. Will you join me? OK, good, how about you and you? Good, let’s go!”
MB4 on June 18, 2008 at 11:51 PM
I will never understand the inaction of others. A prudent man avoids conflict whenever possible, but he is always prepared for conflict when needed. In this case, action was needed. The sheep needed a leader to lead them. It only takes one leader to lead and the rest would have followed. Nobody wanted to be the alpha.
I will run this incident through my mind over and over so if I see a similar incident occurring, I will have already trained my mind for the needed action.
PrettyD_Vicious on June 18, 2008 at 11:52 PM
Not what I was trying to imply. It is just something I’ve noticed in my tour of the planet. I pray you, or anyone, never has to reach such a point.
Limerick on June 18, 2008 at 11:53 PM
I can’t say for certain what I WOULD do, but I can certainly say I wouldn’t do nothing.
SouthernGent on June 18, 2008 at 11:55 PM
OK, MOST Californians.
On a personal note I used to live in a bad neighborhood with a couple of other guys some years back. Hearing gun shots occasionally was not uncommon. Whenever I heard these shots I would phone the police. I don’t think the police ever really did anything but drive through the neighborhood with their lights on, but it was at least something.
One night one of my roommates was on the phone with his girlfriend when i heard gun shots. I forced him off and called the police. He proceeded to lecture me on the value of not getting involved after I did so. He told me a disgusting story of how he witnessed a crime in the parking lot of an apartment building he used to live in and how courageous he was by not coming forward. What small amount of respect I had for him before that (which was very little) went straight out the window.
It is amazing how many people truly believe that the better part of valor is to look the other way. This is what thugs in bad neighborhoods count on. And yet the cowardly people of these places wonder why things are so violent.
When the average citizen refuses to take action then they have no one to blame for the poor quality of their neighborhood but themselves.
I couldn’t live with my self if I did nothing.
NotCoach on June 18, 2008 at 11:56 PM
Limey’s Wife vs. Baby Stomper … 10 bucks on Mrs. Limerick!
I believe I’d have been fast and furious. – Salty
Everybody wonders what they’d do in a situation like this. Many would freeze up, frozen stiff by self-preservation. Others would react instinctively and without even realizing it until it was over. Still others might hesitate, their brains not able to comprehend what they’re seeing at first, and then snap out of it and attack, or just run in the opposite direction.
Tony737 on June 18, 2008 at 11:57 PM
“We have got to stop that monster, he may kill that child. Will you join me? OK, good, how about you and you? Good, let’s
goROLL!” – MB4Minor adjustment :-)
Tony737 on June 19, 2008 at 12:00 AM
everyones car should have one.. I personally like the Easton bats not the wood ones lighter so you can swing them faster and the blood wipes off easier.. :}
Chakra Hammer on June 19, 2008 at 12:00 AM
OneGyT on June 18, 2008 at 11:49 PM
I’ve been in a few hairy situations over my life, and I can say that you don’t know how you will act until faced with the moment.
Different situations breed different reactions.
BUT: I find it extremely disturbing how these people reacted in this particular situation.
Saltysam on June 19, 2008 at 12:03 AM
… I can certainly say I wouldn’t do nothing. – SouthernGent
I predict that you’re about to be called a coward by somebody who speaks in double negatives and thinks you meant that you wouldn’t do anything.
Tony737 on June 19, 2008 at 12:04 AM
MB4 on June 19, 2008 at 12:04 AM
Why didn’t they hurl a reserve tire at his head?
Entelechy on June 19, 2008 at 12:04 AM
Tony737 on June 18, 2008 at 11:57 PM
I agree. I just believe I would act, knowing my reactions in the past.
Saltysam on June 19, 2008 at 12:05 AM
Suppose anyone there will be immune to the mental shock from witnessing this horrific event? Seven minutes? Was there no window of rationality among any of the witnesses in that time? It’s hard to believe. Of course the child was probably dead early in the assault and would not have been saved even with an early intervention.
Deeply disturbing.
BL@KBIRD on June 19, 2008 at 12:07 AM
No, the child was taken to the hospital. It wasn’t even clear how the beater was related to the child.
I think these bystanders were morons. No matter, they will never be able to forgive themselves.
Entelechy on June 19, 2008 at 12:12 AM
No doubt that the surviving family will successfully sue the police officer who shot the man. And get millions from the taxpayers of that state. Thanks to whatever lawyer and jury will comply,
wise_man on June 19, 2008 at 12:17 AM
I’ve spent the better part of my life ready for just such a situation. I hope the man I think I am shows up when it happens.
redshirt on June 19, 2008 at 12:17 AM
This is the kind of gobbledygook that cleanly illustrates the pre-meditated loss of American character. (not pre-organized to deal with this stuff?)
Saltysam on June 19, 2008 at 12:18 AM
He was the child’s father and had recently broken up with his wife. Coward took his revenge like all cowards do, on someone who can’t fight back.
Limerick on June 19, 2008 at 12:19 AM
Instinct is a strong offense (as opposed to ‘defense’… which is what most of these witnesses seem to espouse). I’ve had my ass beaten a few times while defending my sisters, brother, and ex-wives. Blind rage at a loved one being attacked is automatic.
If I had seen this, I might not have saved the kid, but you bet yer ass his ‘dad’ would have been knocked on his ass.
Fucking sick, this. And yes, he was the father, and yes, the child died.
Ugly on June 19, 2008 at 12:22 AM
Huh.
Would it have been so bad if they all just winged it and kicked him in the
nutssame place?MB4 on June 19, 2008 at 12:23 AM
I’m sorry, but how do you not know?
It is completely inconceivable to me that someone could be paralyzed with indecision about whether or not they’d be paralyzed with indecision. That’s simply ridiculous.
Is there nothing at all that you could think to do to help that child? You couldn’t use your car to menace the guy? You couldn’t run at the guy while he was preoccupied with kicking the life out of a baby and throw a clothesline at his throat. You couldn’t at least kick him in the balls?
You would have sat in your car for seven freaking minutes and done nothing beyond calling 911? I would at least hope that you would turn up the radio so you wouldn’t have to hear the thud of the man’s boot on the baby’s skull.
Holy freaking crap.
Jimmie on June 19, 2008 at 12:31 AM
Nah, its always a double tap…
After all, gun control is being able to hit your target… twice…
Romeo13 on June 19, 2008 at 12:33 AM
I’ve had a couple of incidents occur when I was alone. One was a house fire. The other involved high school kids beating another kid up. I guess I really didn’t stop to think and just jumped in and did what had to be done. It was kind of surreal and the adrenalin rush afterward was crazy, but I can’t picture myself standing around and watching some guy kick a baby.
Connie on June 19, 2008 at 12:34 AM
I know that Lim. I heard about this yesterday on an LA radio station, here in San Diego. I meant that it wasn’t known at the time.
Entelechy on June 19, 2008 at 12:34 AM
Wow, between this story and the story of the hit and run with the old man in the street, it really makes me wonder what is wrong with people. Esp the fire-fighter, I’ve yet met a small fry fire-fighter.
Conservative Voice on June 19, 2008 at 12:34 AM
I hadn’t read about the bystanders until now. They watched this guy kick a 2 year old 100 times? They claim they didn’t intervene because he already looked dead?!
Uh, was that before or after the 100 kicks you watched?
Cowardice is an ugly thing.
John on June 19, 2008 at 12:40 AM
Romeo13 on June 19, 2008 at 12:33 AM
Boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom..click..click.
Proper.
Saltysam on June 19, 2008 at 12:42 AM
7 minutes?
They stood around and waited for someone else to do something about it. That can be applied to a lot of different things nowadays.
Are you telling me 20 year old guys these days aren’t stirred to action by seeing a toddler being pummeled to death? Good grief. Get rid of the f-ing Xbox or Playstation and hang a heavy bag in the cellar, fellas.
This another product of public schools; the no red ink to grade papers, the no dodge ball, everyone gets a prize, everyone is special, let’s all hug and talk about our feelings…
It’s a damn shame a car full of soldiers home on leave didn’t drive by.
BS, everyone is ordinary until they are faced with extra-ordinary circumstances.
reaganaut on June 19, 2008 at 12:56 AM
I think you just know if you’d act in this situation. I’m 5’3″ & when I taught in the inner city I broke up fights between guys who were 6’3″ & 250# apiece…as well as bust up brawls at football games (the skinhead going head-first over the seats tipping over the ledge w/me lying on top, arm across his neck, asking “What the F*’s Your Problem??!?!!?”).
I had to pull someone out of raging waters during whitewater rafting in Costa Rica, assist people in accidents (both traffic – where we’ve arrived on the scene – and injuries requiring first aid skills), and make a last-minute decision about how to keep from breaking my own neck in a horseback riding accident.
You don’t think…you react. I can’t recall all the times I’ve done these things, but I know I’ve certainly thrown myself into the middle often enough when the mob mentality tends to drift in the opposite direction.
If I didn’t have a conceal or rifle/shotgun, I’d have opened my trunk and removed my tire iron. Or, I would’ve gone Mad Max on the bastard to get him away from the child. Anything & everything I could think of.
These people didn’t do enough…and this will haunt them, I’m sure.
Miss_Anthrope on June 19, 2008 at 12:59 AM
Ya know, I like you more & more…
;)
Miss_Anthrope on June 19, 2008 at 1:00 AM
Coming soon to your neighborhood…. (Unless you are lucky enough to live in one where they cling to their guns and their Bibles.)
LegendHasIt on June 19, 2008 at 1:02 AM
I have to disagree with you optimists that the ‘audience’ will be haunted by it. Maybe a few will. Many will forget about it quickly; all too many will use it to get reactions from the gang around the water cooler as they regale them with the story; a few will think it was a really cool thing to watch. And one of them will emulate it in the near to distant future.
LegendHasIt on June 19, 2008 at 1:10 AM
This is pathetic. Disgusting. Our society has become a bunch of wimped-up watchers. We are allowing evil to chart the course of our lives.
What happened to protecting the innocent?
Wasn’t it in 1969, New York City, where dozens (hundreds?) of people listened to and watched a poor woman get beaten to death on the street?
We’ve graduated to watching an infant get beaten to death.
Morals, decency, courage. All gone.
Pathetic.
Skidd on June 19, 2008 at 1:14 AM
I beg to differ. Cowardice is a cowardly thing. Even being heroic can be ugly.
Ugly on June 19, 2008 at 1:21 AM
I agree. Shows what passes for ordinary in SF
I remember a televised court case where the prosecutor raised his hand and made stabbing motions while counting the number of times the victime is stabbed. If you try this at home it is a useful way to get a feel for unrelenting slaughter
Way way before the count hit a hundred, ordinary people in my town, that is ‘lower class, low income, non college educated’ people would have picked up a two by four and taken the perp out.
In SF, ‘ordinary people’ stands for ‘passivity-indoctrinated people who have ceded all power to the State’.
I will take a junk yard dog any day over a sheep.
An ordinary woman in Detroit confessed to me she was packing a then-illegal handgun in her purse, in case the bus stop rapist returned. She promised she would shoot him first and said she would go to jail for illegal possession if needed. The rapist had tried to attack another girl at the stop while this ordinary woman fought to pull him off the victim. As the ordinary woman told me her story, I was holding an open knife in my pocket for the same crime wave. Being ordinary, we had both decided that jail was better than dead, and taking the perp with us to Heaven was better than making the trip alone.
Would the same sheep passersby would be more brave if an angry parent gave a kid a slap and a shake at the supermarket? The answer is yes they get very brave preventing traditional parenting.
entagor on June 19, 2008 at 1:34 AM
We are after all talking about California, I’m sure if anyone intervened would have been sued for doing so.
Kini on June 19, 2008 at 2:36 AM
No waaaaay. California isn’t just the PC pansies in SF and Berkley. I would pound the sh1t out of that dude. Any of my friends, or the people I know would’ve pounded the sh1t out of that dude. Maybe we’re the only ones left.
Granted this was BFE Turlock, near the picture-esq “Methdesto” and all the passers by were probably on probation or parole… All I can do is shake my head and wonder why. I too couldn’t live with myself if I did nothing.
liquidflorian on June 19, 2008 at 3:30 AM
I’d have shot him…To bad, CA would have arrested me and convicted me for murder.
Tim Burton on June 19, 2008 at 3:48 AM
Oh yeah?…I would have killed him………WITH MY MIND!!!
..and I would have cut out his heart minced it up and sauted it with some shallots and a little tawny port and fed it to him while dancing a jig of vengence…..
sheesh…few people have been in a situation like that and anyone that hasn’t and tells you what they “would have done” is full of it. Those that have, can talk all they want but the rest can, at best, say what they would like to think they would have done. Now stop with the chest pounding. You’re embarassing yourselves.
TBinSTL on June 19, 2008 at 4:01 AM
A society and culture of apathy and inaction. Friggin’ sad. All these sad excuses: “We didn’t know what to do.” “We couldn’t do anything.” “We didn’t want to get hurt.” “We didn’t know if he had a knife or something.” “The boy looked like he was already gone.” “We’re just normal people.”
Ordinary people aren’t going to tackle a psychotic.
Ordinary people don’t dive on grenades, nor expose themselves to gunfire repeatedly. So what were these guys before they became soldiers?
Spc Steve on June 19, 2008 at 5:00 AM
With apologies to LtCol Dave Grossman, there are 3 kinds of people in the world, sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. Most people are sheep. There’s nothing wrong with being a sheep; sheep make the world go round. They run the businesses, farms, factories, etc. But when the crap hit’s the fan…they’re still just sheep. That’s why there are sheepdogs.
The easiest thing in the world is to Monday morning quarterback. To sit in the safety and comfort of your home and talk about what you would have done if you were there. But unless you have actually BEEN in that type of situation, you really don’t know how you WILL act. You know how you HOPE to act, and would LIKE to act, but you don’t know how you WILL act. Even Tod Beamer and Company waited several hours before finally tackling the terrorists. It took awhile for them to morph into sheepdogs.
Most people don’t expect to confront a horrific incident. Think about it, you’re driving down the road, thinking about what you’ll be buying at the store, or the movie you’re going to see…and there is a man beating a child to death. Most people’s minds aren’t expecting that. It is something beyond the pale for them. So, their bodies go into a high adrenaline or survival stress mode. The body is flooded with endorphins, blood flows from the extremities into the muscles (and coincedently away from the brain), they become faster, stroner, and DUMBER. It is a proven effect of a high stress situation that your cognitive functions become severely reduced. So, you stand there looking like an idiot wondering why no one is doing anything.
Unless you’ve actually BEEN in that type of situation, you really can’t say what you WOULD do. Just what you’d hope you’d do.
wolfva on June 19, 2008 at 5:59 AM
LegendHasIt on June 19, 2008 at 6:17 AM
These three “men” – first on the scene – have blood on their hands as far as I’m concerned.
labrat on June 19, 2008 at 6:59 AM
Your story is why people who are inclined to act, don’t. They take a step toward the problem and then realize, in modern America, you are more likely to be treated like a criminal than a hero for getting involved. So, people walk right by, call 9/11, and feel completely justified doing so.
An off-duty paramedic passing by an bad accident pulled a woman from a burning car saving her life. The woman is suing him personally for injury suffered to her shoulder. There are story after story like that out there and people realize, F’ it! It’s not worth it. Liberals wanted a society where we offload all our responsibilities and obligations onto the Government and they’ve got it.
TheBigOldDog on June 19, 2008 at 7:16 AM
You make a good point, Metro. People died at Va Tech because those college students had been taught in school their whole lives DO NOT fight back, be an appeaser, peace is everything, violence is not the answer. If one person had thrown something at the shooter while he was reloading things might have been different.
The same is true for this California incident. The people saw there was no appeasing this man so they walked away.
abcurtis on June 19, 2008 at 7:56 AM
How fortunate for the do-nothing witnesses that they have experts to assuage their guilt. It would have been nice if that much had been done for that precious child. A volunteer fire chief “forfully argued” with the killer? I’m just a girl, but I would have tried harder than those folks. There were men watching that child get his head stomped in – for over seven minutes. My husband would have stopped that man and I believe any man worth his salt would have risked anything to save that child. It is always our duty to protect the weak and helpless – to stand up for those who cannot defend themselves.
Mrs. Happy Housewife on June 19, 2008 at 8:07 AM
One of the basic problems is the conditioning of our population. The justice system has become so perverted and lawyers & judges so obtuse regarding the stability of our society, people have an instilled fear of getting involved. There have been so many cases where decent people end up in jail, fined, sued, etc because they did the right thing. Lawyers and judges have become the bane of our society to the point where all the criminals, psychopaths, misfits, etc have all the benefits and rights while the core of society is imprisoned by fear. Look at the recent Supreme court decision. Evil at best, to undermine our nation.
wepeople on June 19, 2008 at 9:19 AM
Thank God you haven’t been deterred.
I agree with you. I’m a relatively small woman, and I know how strong I’m not. Calling 911 would be easy, but I’m certainly not strong enough to stop a man like that even if I throw all my strength into it.
I understand people who stood by without intervening (though I don’t understand those with cell phones who didn’t call 911), but even if they have an excuse, they still have to live with it. Knowing you did nothing to stop a man from beating his son to death can’t be easy.
Esthier on June 19, 2008 at 9:50 AM
I am going to get savaged for this comment but I have to make it. I think he was right that Ordinary people aren’t going to tackle a psychotic.
It isn’t all fear or indifference. It is unbelief.
I read that story and could not believe what that man was doing. I still have problems processing it. I can only imagine what the folks looking on would be thinking. It is so outside any decent person’s understanding of the world that you cut off from every situation you could use to pick an action. People don’t trample babies, what is really going on? We face the truly evil so rarely that we have no response ready for it.
They were thrown into a world that most of us are never subjected to. The fact that they could not adapt to that world in time to help is a tragedy and will probably haunt many of them for a long time.
We should thank God that we are not faced with that world often enough to be ready and pray that if we are, we can rise to the occasion.
OBQuiet on June 19, 2008 at 9:51 AM
California has some of the most stringent laws in the land when it comes to firearms in cars. To legally carry a cancelable firearm (i.e. handgun) in a car in California it must be locked in the trunk or other locked container other then a utility box(whatever that is as it is not defined) and the ammunition must not be attached to the firearm( can’t even have the rounds in a magazine) and you must be on your way to a legal activity involving the firearm such as going to the range or the gunsmith. As for long guns the laws are not quite as restrictive but not too many people carry long guns in there vehicles anymore. So it is not surprising that nobody at the seen had access to a firearm.
As to obtaining a concealed weapons permit in California, it is a may issue state so it is up to the discretion of the local police chief/sheriff as to who gets a permit. Some counties/cities don’t issue any permits except to VIPs and other counties (mostly in the northern part of the state) issue quite a few.
RobD on June 19, 2008 at 9:58 AM
You can do something now. Stay active. Stay in shape. Learn a few basic defensive moves. If you’re into it, buy a handgun, learn to use it, and if you can, get a permit to carry.
Practice the defensive moves and with the handgun until you are confident. Then you will be the sensible person.
davidk on June 19, 2008 at 10:26 AM
He has in the hospital for awhile i guess.
Chakra Hammer on June 18, 2008 at 11:38 PM
That deserves a smiley face :)
As said above, a concealed carry would have stopped this beast.
Aggie85 on June 19, 2008 at 10:39 AM
I think there is a lot to be said for preparation. If you prepare your mind, by imagining a situation and figuring out what you would do, and then visualize yourself acting upon that situation, you can train yourself to respond.
This is a technique is used in sports, medicine and just about any emergency training. Of course, you can’t accurately simulate an emergency’s emotional energy, but you can train your mind to act without hesitation when an emergency occurs. The military and emergency services use physical as well as mental preparation in the same way. That is why they train so vigorously, to insure that they react quickly when their mind may have reeled at what they were seeing otherwise.
The acts that people witness often confuse them due to the huge overload of inappropriate input and the natural hesitation to overcome their life-long training to not engage in violence (we are also trained to ignore cases of need due to the inability to “help” everyone, like ignoring homeless people begging for money/handouts). Similar to wishing to be cautious when making a major purchase, you want to make sure that the cost is worth the value (people weighting the risk of their life vs. the outcome of their actions). In times of emergency, most peoples’ brains are not trained to process the information properly and make good decisions, which then leads to poor decisions or complete indecision.
Even if the people had had weapons available that they desired (bats, guns, boards, rocks, whatever) they still probably wouldn’t have reacted to save the child. I guess I don’t blame these people either…I’m just sad that none of them were prepared to handle situations like this.
If you consider these people chickensh1ts, then be sure that you prepare yourself mentally for emergencies. Otherwise, you may find yourself standing around watching someone get beat to death.
Geministorm on June 19, 2008 at 10:54 AM
Jimmie, I’ve never been in that situation. Never been anywhere close to anything like it.
As I said, I’d like to think I would do something more than dial 911. But I don’t know what I would do if I came upon a crowd of people standing around a crazy man beating a child. I simply don’t know.
Meryl Yourish on June 19, 2008 at 11:01 AM
If a person has a CC, there’s a very good chance that they have practiced with the weapon, and mentally prepared themselves for its use. This incident would have presented itself and a situation in which the weapon would be used, so yes a person with a CC probably would have solved this solution prior to the police doing the same thing.
This is probably my biggest problem with the idiotic stance of “Gun Free Zones”. By making guns taboo, people not only don’t prepare themselves, they learn to be afraid of guns. Predators feed upon this attitude (just like a bully will reign so long as no one stands up to them) and the likelihood of a gun related killing increases. Police are simply responders most of the time (unless they are witness to a crime), so citizens should be armed and prepared to react and defend. Of course most liberals mistakenly believe that the government can (or even will) protect…proof against natural selection if you ask me, liberals/socialists/idiots would have died out long ago otherwise.
Geministorm on June 19, 2008 at 11:09 AM
I think you’re right. We have a problem.
Maybe we can do something about it. We already offer mandatory PE classes. Why not offer some self defense or something similar so we can train our kids to not be weak in the face of danger?
We can’t keep letting things like this happen. Americans have a luxury that many countries don’t have. We’re not faced with war in our streets, and many of us live in relatively safe neighbors and never even face the prospect of a fist fight our entire lives, but that doesn’t mean we don’t still need those skills just in case. Times of luxury like these don’t last forever.
Esthier on June 19, 2008 at 11:09 AM
While I think the notion is great, I would hesitate to allow/ask the public school system to provide such training. First, it wouldn’t be under the parents’ control, which is both good and bad, depending on the parent. Second, our school system is a part of the problem, we shouldn’t count on them to do this properly (anymore than we should depend on them to teach our kids about sex). Third, this is asking the state to do the parents’ job, a granny state mentality. Lastly, our schools are often filled with spineless, liberal, brain-washing doofuses (doofi?). What could they possibly teach our children besides how to slink away and hide behind a sacred tree?
I like the idea of mandatory military training better. The US government can at least do that right! One year of service for men and women after HS. Upon discharge, each soldier gets to keep their (registered) sidearm and they’ll be better prepared for life. True, we may still have issues with bullies in the school system, but if more parents were trained in the use of firearms and combat, their kids are probably less likely to be “victims”. How’s that work for the Isrealis?
Geministorm on June 19, 2008 at 11:39 AM
I disagree with that. Most parents know nothing about self defense and would have to pay for a trainer anyway.
I think that would work so long as we keep our military force full of volunteers.
But if you trust the government military to properly train people, there’s no reason they can’t do so through public schools. It’s all still the government.
Esthier on June 19, 2008 at 12:32 PM
It seems reasonable to prefer fight- and arms-training for oneself and persons one trusts, and exclusion for those one has reason to distrust.
Kralizec on June 19, 2008 at 12:57 PM
I’m broadly in agreement with these remarks. Pretending that one doesn’t need training in order to participate in a fight courageously and victoriously seems to be a way of sparing oneself the effort of training.
Kralizec on June 19, 2008 at 1:05 PM
Neither have I.
Nevertheless I do know that I would have attempted something more than a 911 call. Have you never considered the fact that you might need to physically intervene to help another human being? You don’t have to play out specific scenarios, but haven’t you at least considered what you might do to save a life? That, alone, should kill all but the slightest doubts.
Jimmie on June 19, 2008 at 2:08 PM
Seven minutes.
The only person who deserves any sympathy is the poor baby.
surrounded on June 19, 2008 at 2:58 PM
Dominique Dunn’s abusive boyfriend finally ended up killing her by strangling her to death in their front yard. It took 4 minutes, and witnesses were present the entire time. At his trial, the prosecutor asked the courtroom to remain silent for 4 minutes, to illustrate just how long a time people stood around being “concerned” and “phychologicaly unprepared” as a helpless woman was slowly murdered.
surrounded on June 19, 2008 at 3:03 PM
Spoken like a man.
Women generally don’t have the option for physical force. “Saving a life” is not the same as “intervening physically with someone much bigger and stronger than you who is beating a child to death.”
If you ask me would I jump into a body of water to save a drowning person, yes. I can swim. I’d try. If you ask me would I try to pull a person from a burning car, the answer is, maybe. If I thought I could do it, I’d try.
If you’re asking me would I physically intervene in a situation where a bunch of people were standing around watching a man beat a child to death, I think I would dial 911 and then start yelling at people to help me do something. I don’t believe I would attack the man.
I am small and not very strong. Brute force is not an option.
Don’t you dare judge me for something that you yourself haven’t done. Right now, you are 100% talk and zero percent action.
Talk is cheap.
Meryl Yourish on June 19, 2008 at 3:22 PM
That is one of the most masterly put-downs I’ve ever seen. I tip my hat to you.
Meryl Yourish on June 19, 2008 at 3:46 PM
Masterful.
Sigh.
Meryl Yourish on June 19, 2008 at 3:47 PM
Two great lessons here. First, an evil act was not stopped by appeasement or negotiation. Second lesson? Just force stopped the same act of evil on the spot.
Gatordoug on June 19, 2008 at 9:22 PM