Obama on Gitmo jihadis: You don’t have to give them the same protections as normal criminals
posted at 6:15 pm on June 17, 2008 by Allahpundit
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A welcome bit of nuance amid his latest lament about how Iraq sidetracked us from the great overmountain invasion of Pakistan to get Osama that we’ll presumably be undertaking once he’s office. Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but if he’s willing to grant Gitmo prisoners habeas rights in order to separate guilty jihadis from detainees wrongfully accused, and if as he said earlier he’s concerned about Islamic fundies whining about unfair treatment by the U.S. as a recruiting tool, then why not go whole the nine yards and grant them access to the criminal courts?
My quote, the point I was making and I’ve made before, is without giving full blown rights to those who are being held, we can set up a system of due process, and when I said that the administration didn’t even try to do that, what I have consistently said is that rather than figure out how do we effectively hold these folks, detain them, provide them with some due process, try them, lock them up, the administration decided to take a bunch of short cuts.”…
“We don’t have to treat them in the same way that we would treat a criminal suspect in the U.S., but we should abide by the Geneva conventions. We should at least follow through on the same principals we followed though when dealing with Nazis during Nuremburg [Or give them extra principles, even! -- ed.], that is not only the right thing to do but it also actually will strengthen our ability over the long term to fight terrorism.”
Asked by Richard Wolffe of Newsweek what he would suggest be done with detainees, Obama said “we can lock them up in military facilities on U.S. soil in the same way that we locked them up in Gitmo. The reason we set up Gitmo is because the administration wanted to set up a black hole where there was no accountability whatsoever…
“It does not have to be before a U.S. district court,” Obama said, “but if we provided some modicum of due process, we can have confidence that we’ve got the right people, that we’re not wasting time on the wrong people. We can send a message to the world that we continue to abide by the standards of rule of law, and we can actually be more effective in our pursuit of terrorism.”
In fairness, this isn’t the general election pander it looks like. He alluded to trying jihadis under the UCMJ, as opposed to normal criminal statutes, near the end of his big foreign policy speech last August (the same one in which he talked about invading Pakistan) and his floor statement on granting habeas rights two years ago proposed limiting claims to the question of whether the petitioner was being wrongfully held, not whether his cell at Gitmo is too small, etc. Even so, I’m curious as to what’s motivating this compromise. Is there any logic behind it or is it a simple something-for-both-sides political solution?
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So true. We’ll have to give them more rights, huh Barry?
Mojave Mark on June 17, 2008 at 6:18 PM
Let’s have some fun with B.O. Let’s break out a map of the world and have him point out where he thinks Cuba is.
pilamaye on June 17, 2008 at 6:20 PM
Standard political double-speak. He’s talking out of both sides of his mouth.
He knows it’s not polling well and he’s taking heat from it with the moderates and conservative (roughly 60% of the voting electorate).
Now that he’s got the leftist vote sewn up he’s racing for the center.
Skywise on June 17, 2008 at 6:20 PM
That’s easy, Obama the empty suit will say anything to get elected POTUS, then he’ll do nothing or the opposite of what he says when elected…
Liberty or Death on June 17, 2008 at 6:22 PM
But as for that Osama Bin Laden fellow, let’s give him access to appeal his case in U.S. domestic courts.
amerpundit on June 17, 2008 at 6:22 PM
Gregory Hines – God rest his soul – is turning over in his grave at the tap dancin’ goin on here.
Or is it the ole’soft shoe?
Why is he bringing race into it again?
singlemalt_18 on June 17, 2008 at 6:23 PM
So, most in the DNC want the Constitution to apply to the Gitmo murderers, but Hussein Obama wants only portions of our Constitution to apply?
A perfect example of how the DNC choose what parts of our Constitution applies to foreigners, which it shouldn’t.
And they blame the GOP for doing this? Have they ever looked into the mirror?
madmonkphotog on June 17, 2008 at 6:23 PM
The moment we bring them onto U.S. soil, and put them in a military cell, then the lefties will be screaming Posse Comitatus.
Limerick on June 17, 2008 at 6:23 PM
Transparent. Al Burack has to pander to the center now, he’s got the marginal-extreme-nutroot-terrorist voice in his pocket.
Aristotle on June 17, 2008 at 6:23 PM
Um, wasn’t it CONGRESS who set up this trial procedure… the same CONGRESS he is a part of? The same Congress that the Supremes flipped off by their ruling?
He’s trying to have it both ways… he’s trying to agree with the Bush Policy, while all the time complaining about Bush.
Romeo13 on June 17, 2008 at 6:25 PM
He should just admit it… he doesn’t even know where Guantanamo Bay is.
AbaddonsReign on June 17, 2008 at 6:25 PM
These were not the Gitmo Lawyers I knew.
see-dubya on June 17, 2008 at 6:25 PM
Does Barry ever have a clue about the things he’s discussing? Does he just make this stuff up as he goes along?
Somehow, I’m not ready to Believe and I have little Hope.
Cicero43 on June 17, 2008 at 6:26 PM
Seriously, he needs to stop talking big words. Obama just needs to stand in front of his acolytes and randomly yell “Hope!” and “Change!” while they faint and cry and whatever.
Talking about policy is not working. He can’t talk about Iraq, tax cuts/increases, health care, the Middle East, Gitmo, the Nuremberg Trials, etc, etc etc without sounding the fool.
mjk on June 17, 2008 at 6:26 PM
The leftards are morons and I’m convinced more than ever they have all lost their friggin minds, but of course you can’t lose what you don’t already hae!
The only damn rights terrorists scum (especially Osama)should be granted is the RIGHT TO DIE AND ROT IN HELL!!!
Liberty or Death on June 17, 2008 at 6:27 PM
Obama is clueless. He clearly doesn’t understand the Supreme Court’s decision in Boumediene. Any finding that a prisoner is legitimately classified as a unlawful combatant does have to be before a US district court. I guess, Obama could be suggestion a civil habeus review AND a military trial that meets international approval. But why on earth would he give these guys two bites at the apple?
Nessuno on June 17, 2008 at 6:29 PM
The Bush Administration brought these detainees to Guantanamo because they knew if they moved them to the US that the civilian courts would immediately intervene and the control of the combatants would be taken over by those courts. The ability of the US to question these combatants would have been lost (among other things).
Which, of course, has now happened.
Obama can now advocate whatever he wants because he knows that the courts have the final say. There is no turning back, no half ground between military tribunals and access to civilian courts with full due process rights.
Justice Kennedy has made the decision. The courts have taken the detention policy away from the political branches and will now determine what rights these detainees have.
Yes, one can criticize the Bush Administration for not having looked ahead. They panicked and acted recklessly.
But it seems clear to me that whatever they did would have been insufficient. SCOTUS – or the 5 person majority – were going to intervene no matter what the political branches did. They just needed the right case to make their grab.
SteveMG on June 17, 2008 at 6:30 PM
Is this a flip…? Or would you call it a flop?
4shoes on June 17, 2008 at 6:32 PM
Newsflash Barry, they arent criminals, theyre Enemy Combatants, big F’in difference.
Viper1 on June 17, 2008 at 6:32 PM
Oh yeah, 61% of Americans polled say the decision in Boumedienne was wrong.
Anyone hear the press trumpet these numbers?
As the saying goes, the bias in the press is not that they tell you what to think; the bias is that they tell you want to think about.
Or in this case, not to think about the 61% who opposed the ruling.
SteveMG on June 17, 2008 at 6:33 PM
The photos of Obama, the hands and the face
Look at most articles, and he look -hyper-illuminated, in deep colors, his hands are always up, or gesticulating somehow, his face is in strange poses.
Then check out the pics of McCain, ashen, no light – I believe there’s something going on, beyond what they both naturally look like.
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 6:33 PM
Heh. Nixon is right yet again.
Run to the [left|right] to sew up the nomination, run to the center to win.
Trouble with Obambi trying this is, of course, he’ll both piss off the net/nutroots (who he can’t win without) and won’t be believed by anyone with access to Google and three functional brain cells.
McCain had better not f*** up…
Mew
acat on June 17, 2008 at 6:33 PM
Do ya mabye kinda get the impression that Ober-bama will say anything–ANYTHING–to get nominated, elected, liked, approved of, etc, etc ??
‘Swivel lips’
Janos Hunyadi on June 17, 2008 at 6:34 PM
And domestic al-Qaeda cells will be trying to figure out how to break them out or work with them on home soil. Forget it.
Connie on June 17, 2008 at 6:35 PM
I predict most will go free, after a while, and then sue us for billions, and win.
Therefore, in war, shoot them to kill, when first sited.
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 6:35 PM
I would have settled for a convincing victory in Afghanistan, that preserved the country under a single President, as opposed to turning it into a state of battling warlords and drug kingpins. Afghanistan the ultimate narco state isn’t headed toward the type of stable, democracy that will keep the Taliban out.
Starting a war in Iraq involved moving a huge number of resources out of Afghanistan, including troops dedicated to hunting down Osama. Although I know it’s more fun to believe that it was impossible for the US to capture bin Laden from the start. No need to do anything but make fun of the idea that the US should have brought him to justice or seriously float the idea that bin Laden should be dead.
bayam on June 17, 2008 at 6:36 PM
Yes, with the help of the media, he’s creating his alternate-reality. If the right will not start chipping away at it, he’ll get away with it, like all good Marxists did/do.
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 6:37 PM
Ok, I give up.
Where does the Habeas hearing take place? What system of due process is he actually proposing? Why did he bring up the criminal trials of the 1993 WTC bombers with approval?
I won’t even ask why it would make us fight terror more effectively to change it.
MayBee on June 17, 2008 at 6:41 PM
Shoot to kill….most definately!
Enough is enough!
B. Hussien is the biggest idiot moron possible!!!!!!
Winebabe on June 17, 2008 at 6:42 PM
DOPE!
This is exactly what the Chief Justice wrote in his dissent!
He said that the Congressional plan INCLUDED an appeal to the DC District Court, which for all intents and purposes was Habaeus, just not called Habaeus because that is a US Constitutional right, which are not granted to aliens on foreign soil.
The Left has no idea what was in that Congressional Law, neither did the 5 judges that voted against it!
IDIOTS!
jawbone on June 17, 2008 at 6:43 PM
So if you are just going to set it up like Gitmo, then what’s the big deal about Gitmo!!!
terryannonline on June 17, 2008 at 6:44 PM
Why don’t we just put them all in one of those extra 7 states Barry visited? If no one’s heard of them but him, they can’t be worth that much.
Chuck Schick on June 17, 2008 at 6:45 PM
Exactly.
The problem is that one is statutory (created by Congress) and limited; and the Court said it must be Constitutional and (apparently) unlimited (e.g., complete due process rights).
The Courts have completely hashed this.
SteveMG on June 17, 2008 at 6:46 PM
I think you’re being overly generous to Sen. Obama. This is a pack of wishy-washy nonsense that amounts to “Bush was wrong. The court was right. We can sort of make it okay for everybody. Don’t ask me how, but we can do it!”
Jill1066 on June 17, 2008 at 6:51 PM
Er,..no it wasn’t impossible to capture bin Laden back in the day. He was offered to Clinton by Sudan, but Slick declined the honor on political grounds.
a capella on June 17, 2008 at 6:51 PM
Hopey hopey, change change,
hopey hopey, change change,
hopey hopey, change change,
hopey hopey, change change,
hopey hopey, change change,
hopey hopey, change change,
Hopey hopey, change change CHANGE!
(with apologies to all Ren and Stimpy fans)
wccawa on June 17, 2008 at 6:55 PM
Krauthammer on Special Report: The 1993 trials lead to the disclosure (through discovery) that we were listening to OBL and we lost him. They had to divulge 200 unindicted co-conspirators which told AQ who and what we knew.
TheBigOldDog on June 17, 2008 at 6:56 PM
From the perspective of a father of an Iraq war combat veteran, it would be hard for me not to take justice into my own hands if my kid was hauled into court to defend himself against a terrorist who accused him of assault and battery during capture. That crap could really happen. Never mind the national security risks that would happen as the result of public trials. I know damn well there are lawyers everywhere salivating.
I can’t help but think, as others have stated here, that there will be few enemy combatants taken into custody going forward.
JonRoss on June 17, 2008 at 6:57 PM
As Krauthammer just pointed out, during the trial of those who perpetrated the first attack on the WTC, the government had to show the names of more than 200 co-conspirators involved with the plots.
Once those names were released, Bin Laden and his group new how much we had learned about his network.
Additionally, we revealed in the trial that we had intercepted phone calls from Bin Laden and others. Once OBL learned this, he switched communication methods.
All of these revelations – necessary in a civilian court – would never be revealed in a military tribunal.
Requiring access and full due process rights to these alien enemy detainees is simply absurd. Constitutionally absurd and militarily absurd.
SteveMG on June 17, 2008 at 6:58 PM
And that’s not all. He passed up 2 opportunities to kill/capture him. Once during a desert hunting trip because they were afraid a UAE Prince was in attendance and another time are Tarmac Farms because they could not capture him and were afraid of collateral damage in the compound. It’s all spelled out in the book Ghost Wars by Steve Coll, Senior Editor Washington Post.
TheBigOldDog on June 17, 2008 at 7:00 PM
PS – the CIA blames Richard Clark (yes, that Richard Clark) for calling of the hunting trip attack. They accused him to being too close to the UAE.
TheBigOldDog on June 17, 2008 at 7:02 PM
What is Obama talking about? Has he not heard of the Detainee Treatment Act or the Military Commissions Act?!
paul006 on June 17, 2008 at 7:09 PM
Is there any logic behind it or is it a simple something-for-both-sides political solution?
It’s not a both sides strategy. Those who support him need no convincing. Those who oppose him despise him, and will never be convinced. Thank god!
Those who doubt him and say they are independent will not vote for him.
BO is the most polarizing mainstream (sic) politician I have ever had the displeasure to see in my lifetime.
What makes me want to laugh and puke at the same time is that anyone with a sane mind would consider listening to this kindergarten politician at all.
He talks out of BOTH SIDES of his mouth and he has no idea how to unite a country that he is helping to tear apart after he is elected. (I do not believe he will be elected)
winemkr on June 17, 2008 at 7:11 PM
That Barry picture is … terrifying.
TheUnrepentantGeek on June 17, 2008 at 7:11 PM
I’m convinced, Obama is the antichrist. Think about it, everyone, well, most people are supposed to follow him blindly, thinking he’s the savior and become ruler of the free world, only to lead to the worlds demise.
Am I wrong?
Geronimo on June 17, 2008 at 7:14 PM
Isn’t it still a pander if he has said (or implied) other things in between. Like yesterday’s invocation of the 1993 WTC trials. And the prior approving message of the SCOTUS decision.
I think the relatively easy thing is to find when Obama has said something similar in the past. The hard part is squaring it with other things he said and what he actually intends his policy to be.
MayBee on June 17, 2008 at 7:15 PM
More faces than a Salvador Dali clock.
And just as warped.
Obama wings his policy chat the way a deaf bat hunts moths:
Swallow everything and hope for the best.
profitsbeard on June 17, 2008 at 7:18 PM
Re: Obama Photo:
“Missed it by that much!”
1GooDDaDDy on June 17, 2008 at 7:19 PM
He was campaigning in the 54th State at the time and news gets there slowly.
TheBigOldDog on June 17, 2008 at 7:21 PM
Or how about “Oh, snap!”
CyberCipher on June 17, 2008 at 7:23 PM
From his remarks, it appears that Obama either hasn’t read, or hasn’t understood, the Boumediene decision.
Considering that he claims to be an expert in constitutional law, that is more than a little disturbing.
AZCoyote on June 17, 2008 at 7:30 PM
So not trying them under the same judicial system we use or U.S. citizens, he suggests we try them under the same judicial system we use for U.S. service members?
How is that better?
Hog Wild on June 17, 2008 at 7:32 PM
He’s polling very badly on this, hence the pander. Flip-flop, and the flop is not very convincing, since he’s on record for treating terrorists like criminals.
Imagine the GOP attack ads! “Obama wants an OJ trial for Osama!”
whiskey_199 on June 17, 2008 at 7:45 PM
Because he doesn’t mean any of it. Unless it came off perfectly he would be the one blamed for the judicial debacle that freed terrorists. Rightfully so. Even McCain’s zeal to bash Bush at all costs stopped short of anything more than demanding military tribunals.
And while we are on the subject- The UCMJ is the legal system for our military. Do we really want to go down the path of applying a system designed for organized Western-style troops from nations with operable justice systems to the vermin of Gitmo?
highhopes on June 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM
This is chock-a-block with code. tha way Barack Hussein can tailor his answer to be suitable to the bias of the questioner.
drjohn on June 17, 2008 at 8:37 PM
So….what was the point of giving them access to civilian courts, if they aren`t afforded the same rights as normal criminals?
ThePrez on June 17, 2008 at 8:37 PM
From the one and only:
RUSH: This guy Obama is dangerous, because he’s an idiot. I mean, really. They talk about how brilliant this guy is, that he went to Harvard and so forth. I did some checking. This guy never wrote anything at Harvard Law. He just had a law review. He never wrote anything — probably on purpose, not to create a paper trail. Number two, he might not have been capable of it, for all I know. But I mean the things this guy says, the people he hangs around with, the associates he chooses to become part of his administration. Hell, he just went to somebody out there. He just hired somebody to be one of his big advisors on something who ended up quoting Winnie the Pooh! I’m not kidding. He quoted Winnie the Pooh in terms of foreign policy, how we have to behave. I’ll find this. I’ve got four stacks here. Ah. Here it is today. It’s Richard Danzig.
“Richard Danzig, who served as Navy secretary under President Clinton is tipped to become national security advisor in an Obama White House.” By the way, I thought Obama was about all this change. He’s getting a bunch of retreads from the Clinton administration to run the show here, just a full bunch of retreads. There’s nothing new, here. Anyway, Danzig ran the Navy for Clinton and is going to be national security advisor in Obama’s White House, “told a major foreign policy conference in Washington that the future of US strategy in the war on terrorism should follow a lesson from the pages of Winnie the Pooh, which can be shortened to this: ‘If it is causing you too much pain, try something else.’ Mr. Danzig told the Center for New American security, quote, ‘Winnie the Pooh seems to me to be a fundamental text on national security.’” Now, I got this from our old buddy Jim Geraghty at National Review Online at the Campaign Spot. Now, this sounds like something you’d see on a satire Web page. “‘Winnie the Pooh seems to me to be a fundamental text on national security.’ He spelled out how American troops, spies, and anti-terrorist officials could learn key lessons by understanding the desire of terrorists to emulate super heroes like Luke Skywalker and the lust for violence of violent football fans.” These are the people Obama seeks to surround himself with. He’s a blooming idiot, folks.
Keemo on June 17, 2008 at 8:46 PM
Obama has so many flip-flops I can’t even keep up with them. I think that may be his tactic. If he keeps this up, it would boggle any normal mind attempting to battle him in a debate.
nottakingsides on June 17, 2008 at 8:49 PM
Lawyer Obama needs to bone up on the Geneva Convention, which neither the Taliban nor Al Qaeda signed. They believe that any such man-made law is blasphemy if it doesn’t spring from the Koran.
Likewise, the terrorists did not comply with the GC. They did not identify themselves as combatants and they targeted civilians, both violations of the GC which denies them its protection. Technically, they’re spies who can be shot. When the OSS landed its Jedburgh teams in civvies behind Nazi lines, the Nazis executed them. It was perfectly legal and we made no complaint.
Kazuo Sakamaki was the first prisoner of WWII, the captain of a midget sub swamped outside the mouth of Pearl Harbor, caught the morning after the attack. There was no talk of trying him in a domestic court nor kicking him loose if we couldn’t prove he attacked us. Maybe some smart lawyer would have made the case that he was sunbathing on the beach when racist American GIs rounded him up and falsely accused him. We held Sakamaki for years until the Japanese empire ceased their war against us, then released him.
By contrast, when some of the Doolittle Raiders were tried for war crimes, unlike our treatment of Sakamaki, and executed, we considered that an outrage. Obama is advocating the Hirohito approach rather than the Geneva Convention approach.
The Geneva Convention was written to moderate war, to round off its sharp edges, to outlaw its terroristic excesses. When you give terrorists, who deliberately violate the GC, more legal privileges than legal combatants who abide by the GC, you are turning the Geneva Convention on its head and perverting its intention.
We can see that springing prisoners from Gitmo to rejoin the jihad results in more deaths of innocent parties. Where in this concern for the rights of jihadis is any consideration for their victims, past and future?
Had we granted habeas corpus to legal combatants we would have had to kick most of our Japanese, German, and Italian prisoners free in WWII. After all, we did not have witnesses to present evidence against each one to prove they had shot at our troops. Perhaps we would have had to parachute a division of lawyers behind the beach head at Normandy to ensure the German defenders rights were properly observed.
We should hold the terrorists prisoner at Gitmo until their patron organizations cease their war against America. It is their misfortune that Islam declares perpetual war against the whole world in its insane war of religious imperialism. They should bear the burden and risk of their rejection of international law and their relentless bellicosity, not us, their targets.
You can not fight a war with police, lawyers, courts, and judges. Such an approach is doomed to fail as reactionary and defensive. It attempts to micromanage each attacker’s case. To win you must take the initiative, go on the offensive, take the war to the enemy with the military. You must handle your enemy captives as a group, just as we handled our German prisoners en masse in camps. We didn’t grant them the constitutional rights of a US citizen nor did we ever consider that the way to acquire such rights of an American citizen was to kill one.
Tantor on June 17, 2008 at 11:03 PM
Somebody help me out here – I haven’t read the majority opinion yet.
Hasn’t the Supreme Court already decided this issue? Isn’t Obama implying that he’ll somehow attempt to relax the standard that was just set by the court? Isn’t this out of the hands of the next President?
blink on June 17, 2008 at 11:13 PM
blink: “Isn’t this out of the hands of the next President?”
When the Supreme Court ruled that slaves had no rights a white man was bound to respect, did that mean that slavery was out of the hands of Lincoln?
Tantor on June 17, 2008 at 11:24 PM
Expect Obama to give his brother’s foot baths, and all taxpayer expenses paid Club Med accomodations.
byteshredder on June 17, 2008 at 11:56 PM
The military tribunals are based on the UCMJ, so I don’t really see what the point would be? Keep them at military prisons in the US? How’s that any different than at Guantanamo?
Gotta love Label Politics – everything is the same, except it sounds like something else.
Seixon on June 18, 2008 at 3:48 AM
Tantor, are you accusing Obama of wanting to start another Civil War in this country? :)
blink on June 18, 2008 at 10:25 AM
Military Tribunals vs. CSRT’s.
After 5-6 years in GTMO, how many detainees have been charged so that they would appear before the Tribunals? A dozen or so. Alright, an argument can be said, that Congress didn’t get around to setting up the Military Tribunals until 2006, so it has only been a 2 year wait. But still, of the 400 detainees, only a dozen have been put on the pathway to appearing before a military tribunal.
The CSRT’s have been given to every detainee since 2004. The purpose of the CSRTs is to determine if detainees held within Guantanamo Bay have been correctly designated as “enemy combatants.” At these hearings, the detainee has no right to present witnesses or to cross-examine government witnesses; hearsay evidence was admissiable; Panel informed detainees only of general charges against them, while the details on which the CSRT premised enemy combatant status decisions were classified. The CSRT does not start from the stand point of: this detainee is innocent prove his guilt. Rather the CSRT’s purpose was: Was the government’s action in detaining this prisoner unwarrented. The CSRTs often did not allege any specific action on the part of the detainees, but made general allegations that were difficult and/or impossible to rebut.
Until 2005, the Administration refused any review of the decisions of the CSRT. The 2005 Act gave the D.C. Circuit the limited power of review, that only extended to whether the procedures written by the CSRT were followed, and not any review on whether or not the CSRT process itself was fair or not.
Habeas Rights vs. Constitutional Rights
I think it should be noted that Habeas Corpus is not a constitutional right. It is an older right that predates the U.S. Constitution by about by 400 to 500 years. In a nutshell Habeas is the right to ask “Why am I here”.
The constitution only brings up Habeas in terms of the suspension clause. For this clause to have any meaning, a fundamental right to Habeas must exist independent of any constitutional rights. Meaning that in order to make special rules regarding when and how Habeas can be suspended, the Framers of the Constitution must have understood that there was a fundamental right to Habeas that predated the Constitution.
Therefore, Obama’s is correct in his statement that granting Habeas rights does not necessarily involve granting any constutional rights.
New_Jersey_Buckeye on June 18, 2008 at 10:55 AM
If Obama has read the SCOTUS ruling, he does not understand a word of it. Most likely the Geneva Conventions and the UCMJ are a great mystery to him as well.
I’m quite sure that the Constitution, as written not as interpreted, is also a problem for him. Speaking at Pep Rallies and knowing what he is talking about is two different things.
old trooper on June 18, 2008 at 11:14 AM
Yeah. The flip-flops are down to minutes now. He’s not triangulating. He’s heptangulating.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on June 18, 2008 at 2:01 PM
Actually, New Jersey Buckeye, habeas corpus is a Constitutional right located in Article One, Section 9:
“The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it.”
If we grant the liberal argument, sympathetic to terrorists, that such illegal combatants deserve access to our domestic courts, then it’s still perfectly constitutional for the US to deny habeas corpus to terrorists on the grounds of invasion and public safety. However, the approved solution is that illegal combatants engaged in a war against the USA have no legal right to be tried under criminal law in our courts, but rather belong in the domain of international law. Obama’s attempt to move them from the domain of international law to the domain of domestic law is an attempt to ensure safer working conditions for terrorists.
Tantor on June 18, 2008 at 2:48 PM
I should have been more clear when I said:
The suspension clause I refer to is the very one you reference. Thus the Constitution assumes a basic right to habeas rights, and specifically limits the instances under which congruss may suspend those rights. (Article I refers to limitations on the power of Congress to act.) That is one of the main points of the recent supreme court decision, that Congress has not (properly)suspended Habeas Corpus.
New_Jersey_Buckeye on June 18, 2008 at 3:56 PM
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